Guild Wars 2

People would just build around stealth and decap points the entire game. Not much counter play when you can’t see the thief on the map heading home. Not to mention you can LOS some areas while decapping.

One must be a thief to be biaised in such a way.

u know before they can stealth cap or defend… its very trolly since u wonder why u not decapping a point, coz a thief stealth on spot :P

Nobody can perma invuln, block or evade (daredevil can be close to perma evade though). You can see, when those defensive mechanics are used and when they end.
Good luck at waiting for stealth to end against perma stealth SA thieves. PU mesmers might become an issue too. Scrapper not so much, at least you can see and destroy the stealth gyro. But scrapper don’t need the stealth to cap/hold points anyway.

No ty. This promotes stupidly passive gameplay. Stealth is brutal strong already. If you can’t use it for your advantage you are doing something wrong.

It would reveal your position. Not very steathy.

Can’t you see why stealth cannot capture points?

Maybe someone will reveal it for you.

I thought this was a joke thread when I read the title. Now that I see it is real…

Absolutely ridiculous suggestion. Oh and btw, you can avoid melee attacks and aoe in stealth if you have any idea at all how to position yourself.

Is this more of the OPs sarcasm that he’s so good at?

Kicast.1459:

One must be a thief to be biaised in such a way.

Or an engi that has more stealth than the stealth class

I recently made a thread about this in the Thief forum…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/PvP-Stealth-Capture

Personally, as weak as the Thief is on-point and with all of the large AoE/traps out there, I don’t see why a Thief (and only a Thief) could not have a 3-second grace period after entering Stealth while still able to capture/contest a point.

It would allow Stealth attacks and limited sustain while not allowing perma-Stealth hiding.

Perma-Stealth is another argument altogether, though it likely wouldn’t be as bad as people think with all of the anti-Stealth/Thief skills in the current game.

This is all considering PvP, of course, not WvW.

why are some people allowed to post in forums xD

Covis.6037:

why are some people allowed to post in forums xD

For the longest time now in sPvP people have complained about stealth, mainly targeting Thieves and Mesmers. One of the main counter-arguments has always been “Well hey at least they can’t contest the point while in stealth”. If you change that, these forums will be flooded with anti-stealth threads.

Would also like to point out that a lot of there other active defense op listed have multiple counters. Aside from trying to blindly hit someone in stealth, you’re mostly just preparing for them to come out of stealth. If this were implemented, Reveal effects would probably have to become much more common, and trust me that is the last thing you stealth classes want to happen.

SuperKorean.7345:

Kicast.1459:

One must be a thief to be biaised in such a way.

Heralds , Druids , Chronos , Berserkers can capture points while doing long blocks and long invulns
Why Thief and Scrapper cannot capture points while doing stealth??
Scrapper will be the king of stealth capturing using Stealth Gyro

Classes can block, however you can counter blocks with unblockables, or just wait out the block (long cd’s, unlike stealth application for thieves).

Invulns on the other hand result in decap (mes distortion, engie elixer, ele immunity etc). Endure pain isnt a true invuln, only vs direct damage. Condi’s and effects can still be applied, and condi damage done.

Stealth used to contest a point back in the day. The problem was a lot of skills require targeting, and you can’t target someone in stealth. You also can’t see to land your AoE, and AoE often has a CD attached to it. In the early days of WvW in particular, you had cases of a single perma stealthing thief holding up entire 40-man zergs who were trying to capture a camp. Thief would just run around in stealth avoiding any/all attempts to aoe/cleave.

Also, nobody likes thieves XD

Shaogin.2679:

One of the main counter-arguments has always been “Well hey at least they can’t contest the point while in stealth”.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Also, nobody likes thieves XD

Haha, I think that’s a valid statement, and the source of the problem. I think a more accurate sentiment would be…

“Well, hey, at least Thieves can’t contest the point while in or out of stealth” ;-P

The problem for Thieves in particular is that their main line of sustain is based on being in Stealth. Perhaps it is a badly balanced design, but it also removes the ability to bunker a point without such access.

Again, even 3-seconds of capture/contest potential after entering Stealth for a Thief would give it a fighting chance. Even if not traited with Shadow Arts, it would allow non-Stealth-reliant builds (like mine) to at least get a Backstab in without giving up any control progress. Of course it won’t help me one bit when a Dragonhunter places one of his traps that fills up the entire point. So sad… #ThiefTears

Kageseigi.2150:

Shaogin.2679:

One of the main counter-arguments has always been “Well hey at least they can’t contest the point while in stealth”.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Also, nobody likes thieves XD

Haha, I think that’s a valid statement, and the source of the problem. I think a more accurate sentiment would be…

“Well, hey, at least Thieves can’t contest the point while in or out of stealth” ;-P

The problem for Thieves in particular is that their main line of sustain is based on being in Stealth. Perhaps it is a badly balanced design, but it also removes the ability to bunker a point without such access.

Again, even 3-seconds of capture/contest potential after entering Stealth for a Thief would give it a fighting chance. Even if not traited with Shadow Arts, it would allow non-Stealth-reliant builds (like mine) to at least get a Backstab in without giving up any control progress. Of course it won’t help me one bit when a Dragonhunter places one of his traps that fills up the entire point. So sad… #ThiefTears

Not every class fills every role, don’t see the problem here. A Thief tanking or contesting points would be through evades anyways, not stealth. I just fail to see why you’re trying to fix something that isn’t broken here.

No this is an issue. Classes that don’t require stealth have a capping advantage. This limits build diversity in spvp.

(I would suggest that if the idea of stealth contesting is too much then blocks and evades should be changed to stop contesting points as well so thief cant tank a point by just evade spamming this way and warriors cannot simply block and defy pain to hold the point and delay the fight.)

It is clear that stealth capping would be broken as players can simply cap a point without being seen or having risk.

It is also clear that stealth needs help because it is at a disadvantage as are distortions and other skills that don’t allow de-capping.

The middle ground is what I feel they should have done. Allow stealth invulnerability and other skills to contest the point they cannot use stealth to capture the point but they can use it to hold a point. There is good counter play to stealth this way as players with AoE can nuke a point the minute they notice it is being contested as obviously the stealthed player is on the point. This will decrease surprise with stealth popping up in your face.

Stealth should not be able to cap a point but it should be able to contest a point

Zelulose.8695:

No this is an issue. Classes that don’t require stealth have a capping advantage. This limits build diversity in spvp.

(I would suggest that if the idea of stealth contesting is too much then blocks and evades should be changed to stop contesting points as well so thief cant tank a point by just evade spamming this way and warriors cannot simply block and defy pain to hold the point and delay the fight.)

It is clear that stealth capping would be broken as players can simply cap a point without being seen or having risk.

It is also clear that stealth needs help because it is at a disadvantage as are distortions and other skills that don’t allow de-capping.

The middle ground is what I feel they should have done. Allow stealth invulnerability and other skills to contest the point they cannot use stealth to capture the point but they can use it to hold a point. There is good counter play to stealth this way as players with AoE can nuke a point the minute they notice it is being contested as obviously the stealthed player is on the point. This will decrease surprise with stealth popping up in your face.

Stealth should not be able to cap a point but it should be able to contest a point

-_-u

Stealth is only at a “disadvantage” where point contesting is concerned. Stealth is, mechanically, an advantage in every other way.

If I can use Sneak Gyro to stealth my Scrapper and still avoid melee attacks and aoe while having a gyro give off my general location, then I’m pretty sure other stealth classes can do the same with proper positioning. Blindly attacking someone in stealth is not a counter, stealth and invulns do not need to be able to contest a point in any way. Wanna contest a point on a Thief? Make an evade spam build.

Shaogin.2679:

Not every class fills every role

I think that’s the issue. The Thief has no true role in conquest. It can decap ONLY IF the enemy leaves a point open. Outside of that, the Thief is limited to engaging only enemies that are already matched man for man… and only when not in the midst of AoE spamfest.

Thieves are too weak to bunker without Stealth.
Glass “assassin” Thieves are too easy to counter with auto-passive defenses and random AoE.

Basically, Thieves don’t have the builds to effectively…

- Hold a point
- Assault a defended point
- 1v1 in a fair fight
- Out-range the enemy
- Enter large teamfights in melee
- Support teammates with boons/healing/condition removal

Thieves have many more options in WvW. But in PvP, they are quite limited. Seemingly, Thieves were designed to be mobile, agile glass-assassins. But there are simply too many auto-immunes\invulnerabilitiess\CC-counters in the game today for glass builds to be very effective. Those passive defenses inherently turn every fight into one of attrition. And time is the worst enemy of the Thief.

Zelulose.8695:

Stealth should not be able to cap a point but it should be able to contest a point

Hey, it’s better than nothing. At least I won’t have to run away at the first sign of the enemy :-)

Ross Biddle.2367:

Stealth is only at a “disadvantage” where point contesting is concerned. Stealth is, mechanically, an advantage in every other way.

Contesting/capturing is the most important part of conquest. Not allowing the Thief to use an entire trait line while on-point (without giving up control) is similar to disabling the Elementalist’s Earth/Water lines while on-point. Or to a lesser extent, disabling a Warrior’s Endure/Defy Pain while on-point.

Except Thieves do have their role in sPvP. They’re part of the meta in fact and used in pro league tournaments. The thief’s role is to almost constantly keep moving, Infiltrator’s Arrow Infiltrator’s Arrow and other shadowsteps make this profession the most mobile one. Decap unguarded capture points, +1 fights (rotate to outnumber the enemy team on a point, quickly ending the fight and then move on), provide AoE stealth for your team, interrupt foes with stability by landing Steal Steal , and gank targets in teamfights.

Me thinks you be playing Thief wrong….

Shaogin.2679:

Me thinks you be playing Thief wrong….

I know how to play Thief. I may not be great, but I know how to play it. I do everything you listed. You just repeated what I said.

What you listed is like saying “up-level” players have a specific roles in WvW.

What I’m saying is that the Thief is a dependent profession. In the current game, the only thing it can do independently is run to an empty point. And again, in order for the Thief to even do that, the enemy has to choose to leave it open.

If the enemy chooses to bunker a point, the Thief is compelled to support teamfights. Supporting a 1v1 or 2v2 is preferable, but a 3v3 or 4v4 is not where a Thief shines. And on a map like Legacy, the enemy doesn’t even have to fully commit a player to watch over their Home point to keep a Thief from decapping.

As far as group Stealth in PvP… that is extremely situational, and can do as much harm as good. Mesmers and Engineers can do the same while providing more.

Whatever the case, Thieves are extremely dependent on teammates in nearly everything they do. For being roamers, they aren’t designed to do anything alone when an enemy is around. The purpose of this thread was just to give the Thief a little independence in the ability to hold a point… other than to be an annoyance.

It’s not at all like saying up-levels have a role in WvW. Such a silly exaggeration. And Thieves are plenty capable of handling 1v1’s in PvP.

I get that you are wanting Thief to fill a role that it is currently not meant to fill, but that is what the Elite Specs are for. I’d love to play a support build on my Necro, but that just isn’t going to happen. Maybe some day they’ll make an Elite Spec for the Thief that lets them bunker a point, then you can go crazy with it. But allowing any stealth class to capture or contest points while in stealth is bad design and should never be allowed.

Why stealth cannot capture point?

Answer :
- Stealth used to be able to capture point.
- It felt broken for the vast majority of the PvP community.
- Lot of pvp players complained about it.
- Anet nerfed it along with all invuln effect.

Rangers/druid/warrior have no invuln effect since conditions pass through them
Gardian/DH only have shelter has a block utility with no blind spot that allow caping.
Reflect only prevent incoming projectiles to hit you (not all range attack, which make a very big difference, trust me)

Block/reflect/invuln/blur/dodge are short lasting effect that allow your ennemies to still keep track of you.
Stealth may be stacked to the point that you end up perma stealth and you can’t keep track of a stealthed ennemy (especially if you don’t know that there is one)

What you want would only end up in stealth wars 2 where the meta game would revolve on 2-3 professions playing in PvP : Engi, thief and on a good day you may see 1 DH or ranger.

Dadnir.5038:

Why stealth cannot capture point?

Answer :
- Stealth used to be able to capture point.
- It felt broken for the vast majority of the PvP community.
- Lot of pvp players complained about it.
- Anet nerfed it along with all invuln effect.

Rangers/druid/warrior have no invuln effect since conditions pass through them
Gardian/DH only have shelter has a block utility with no blind spot that allow caping.
Reflect only prevent incoming projectiles to hit you (not all range attack, which make a very big difference, trust me)

Block/reflect/invuln/blur/dodge are short lasting effect that allow your ennemies to still keep track of you.
Stealth may be stacked to the point that you end up perma stealth and you can’t keep track of a stealthed ennemy (especially if you don’t know that there is one)

What you want would only end up in stealth wars 2 where the meta game would revolve on 2-3 professions playing in PvP : Engi, thief and on a good day you may see 1 DH or ranger.

I just got an image in my mind of both teams consisting of 5 Thieves. The only action would be points randomly decapping or switching colours lol.

In my opinion they should have reduced the availability of stealth for thief long time ago rather than nerfing stealth to the ground. It currently has reveals, a stealth debuff on attacking, and nerfed capping ability. The thief dropped off when it lost the ability to bring stealth and cap effectively. The mesmer is limited as well. Distortion already ruins mesmer’s ability to contest a point. bringing stealth only makes it harder. (The distortion nerf came when the well WoP gave invulnerability. But that well now gives agis. The distortion nerf is no longer needed.

I firmly believe that if mesmers and thieves cannot contest a point with stealth at least, then guardians and warriors and rangers and engineers shouldn’t be able to contest a point while evading or blocking. The same goes to necromancer Deathshroud.

Kageseigi.2150:

Shaogin.2679:

Not every class fills every role

I think that’s the issue. The Thief has no true role in conquest. It can decap ONLY IF the enemy leaves a point open.

Well, they can also kill a lone defender really fast and then cap. With their huge mobility, they can also be anywhere a +1 is needed (or where enemy has left the point open/underdefended).

Astralporing.1957:

Kageseigi.2150:

Shaogin.2679:

Not every class fills every role

I think that’s the issue. The Thief has no true role in conquest. It can decap ONLY IF the enemy leaves a point open.

Well, they can also kill a lone defender really fast and then cap. With their huge mobility, they can also be anywhere a +1 is needed (or where enemy has left the point open/underdefended).

A thief cannot quickly kill a decent lone point holder they have too many passive defenses to die quickly.

Zelulose.8695:

.
…
I firmly believe that if mesmers and thieves cannot contest a point with stealth at least, then guardians and warriors and rangers and engineers shouldn’t be able to contest a point while evading or blocking. The same goes to necromancer Deathshroud.

You are comparing apples and twinkies. Endure pain has a 60s CD and can still be targeted and even killed with condis. Stealth on the other hand can be maintained with 100% uptime by thieves and engis, mesmers have some too. It would be stupid spamming AoE skills blindly. Also, making evades not contest would hurt the one who can dodge 12 times in a row.
I cant believe this thread is still running. Thieves cant fill every role and that is fine. Why cant my necro fill zerker roamer role or bunker support

akaCryptic.2389:

Zelulose.8695:

.
…
I firmly believe that if mesmers and thieves cannot contest a point with stealth at least, then guardians and warriors and rangers and engineers shouldn’t be able to contest a point while evading or blocking. The same goes to necromancer Deathshroud.

You are comparing apples and twinkies. Endure pain has a 60s CD and can still be targeted and even killed with condis. Stealth on the other hand can be maintained with 100% uptime by thieves and engis, mesmers have some too. It would be stupid spamming AoE skills blindly. Also, making evades not contest would hurt the one who can dodge 12 times in a row.
I cant believe this thread is still running. Thieves cant fill every role and that is fine. Why cant my necro fill zerker roamer role or bunker support

You do know that stealth can be revealed… There is plenty of stealth counter-play currently. So much that stealth is becoming nonviable.

Zelulose.8695:

akaCryptic.2389:

Zelulose.8695:

.
…
I firmly believe that if mesmers and thieves cannot contest a point with stealth at least, then guardians and warriors and rangers and engineers shouldn’t be able to contest a point while evading or blocking. The same goes to necromancer Deathshroud.

You are comparing apples and twinkies. Endure pain has a 60s CD and can still be targeted and even killed with condis. Stealth on the other hand can be maintained with 100% uptime by thieves and engis, mesmers have some too. It would be stupid spamming AoE skills blindly. Also, making evades not contest would hurt the one who can dodge 12 times in a row.
I cant believe this thread is still running. Thieves cant fill every role and that is fine. Why cant my necro fill zerker roamer role or bunker support

You do know that stealth can be revealed… There is plenty of stealth counter-play currently. So much that stealth is becoming nonviable.

Skills that apply Reveal:

• Light’s Judgment
• Sic ’Em!
• Gaze of Darkness
• Analyze
• Detection Pulse

Traits that apply Reveal:

• Lock On

Of all the options across all the professions, we are limited to these 6 options to apply reveal. 2 of these options require a target to use, meaning they have to be used on someone before they enter stealth. That leaves us with 4 options to bring players out of stealth with. Of those 4 options, only 2 of them are capable of making it into any of the meta builds.

So try not to exaggerate things so much. And you basically lost all credibility with me when you made the statement that Necros shouldn’t be able to cap while in shroud if Thieves can’t cap in stealth. Most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read.

I think that’s the issue. The Thief has no true role in conquest. It can decap ONLY IF the enemy leaves a point open. Outside of that, the Thief is limited to engaging only enemies that are already matched man for man… and only when not in the midst of AoE spamfest.

Yes. Thieves are more mobile than most classes, they are meant to be wingers, hopping from conflict to conflict as needed. If you stay in one spot too long you probably aren’t helping as best you could. If there is no one on a point, decap it. If there is someone on a point, ignore it. If there is a 1v1, tip the balance in your favor. If there is a general melee, then there is a weaker fight happening elsewhere.

What I’m saying is that the Thief is a dependent profession. In the current game, the only thing it can do independently is run to an empty point. And again, in order for the Thief to even do that, the enemy has to choose to leave it open.

This is true of other classes too though. A support/bunker Ele is fairly worthless without team support, because they can’t take a point 1v1 from a good enemy, they can only hold one already taken. Thieves are the opposite, they can take, but not hold.

I think that if any change were made to thieves, it would be in giving them a way to bypass certain defenses on a limited basis, so that they can be more effective at bursting bunkers, but being able to stealth cap, or even stealth hold a point would make them too OP.

Of all the options across all the professions, we are limited to these 6 options to apply reveal. 2 of these options require a target to use, meaning they have to be used on someone before they enter stealth. That leaves us with 4 options to bring players out of stealth with. Of those 4 options, only 2 of them are capable of making it into any of the meta builds.

Yes, there aren’t enough reveal skills, plus no class should be so powerful that it demands a specific counter be added to the mix. I mean, there are various abilities that are useful against specific opponents, but those same abilities also tend to have uses in all sorts of encounters. Reveal is so specific to anti-stealth that it’s unreasonable to expect people to slot it.

The only way I’d think that would make sense is if most Reveal abilities also had strong secondary effects that made them worth using even when no Thieves were around, like a strong buff or damage effect. That way, if a Thief is around? Great, you can reveal them. If no stealth is around? You can still pop the ability anyway and get some use out of it. It’s not worth just having the ability sit there the entire match in the hopes that some annoying Thief or Scrapper will wander by.

Ohoni.6057:

I think that’s the issue. The Thief has no true role in conquest. It can decap ONLY IF the enemy leaves a point open. Outside of that, the Thief is limited to engaging only enemies that are already matched man for man… and only when not in the midst of AoE spamfest.

Yes. Thieves are more mobile than most classes, they are meant to be wingers, hopping from conflict to conflict as needed. If you stay in one spot too long you probably aren’t helping as best you could. If there is no one on a point, decap it. If there is someone on a point, ignore it. If there is a 1v1, tip the balance in your favor. If there is a general melee, then there is a weaker fight happening elsewhere.

What I’m saying is that the Thief is a dependent profession. In the current game, the only thing it can do independently is run to an empty point. And again, in order for the Thief to even do that, the enemy has to choose to leave it open.

This is true of other classes too though. A support/bunker Ele is fairly worthless without team support, because they can’t take a point 1v1 from a good enemy, they can only hold one already taken. Thieves are the opposite, they can take, but not hold.

I think that if any change were made to thieves, it would be in giving them a way to bypass certain defenses on a limited basis, so that they can be more effective at bursting bunkers, but being able to stealth cap, or even stealth hold a point would make them too OP.

Of all the options across all the professions, we are limited to these 6 options to apply reveal. 2 of these options require a target to use, meaning they have to be used on someone before they enter stealth. That leaves us with 4 options to bring players out of stealth with. Of those 4 options, only 2 of them are capable of making it into any of the meta builds.

Yes, there aren’t enough reveal skills, plus no class should be so powerful that it demands a specific counter be added to the mix. I mean, there are various abilities that are useful against specific opponents, but those same abilities also tend to have uses in all sorts of encounters. Reveal is so specific to anti-stealth that it’s unreasonable to expect people to slot it.

The only way I’d think that would make sense is if most Reveal abilities also had strong secondary effects that made them worth using even when no Thieves were around, like a strong buff or damage effect. That way, if a Thief is around? Great, you can reveal them. If no stealth is around? You can still pop the ability anyway and get some use out of it. It’s not worth just having the ability sit there the entire match in the hopes that some annoying Thief or Scrapper will wander by.

I hate to burst anyone’s bubble but currently thief is one of the weakest classes. They can be good but they realistically cannot take a point quickly anymore. If they could still take points quickly then this topic wouldn’t be necessary but right now they are only every other class damage wise with less ability to survive and less ability to cap.

Right now thief only has one useful aspect in pvp unique for other classes. Mobility. They can fight then they can run or rush to points that sadly they cannot contest. That is it. But damage is probably done better by a warrior or mesmer as they have more and can continue to put on the pressure needed to kill a bunker.

I play more evade based thief in pvp personally because stealth based thieves literally have to deal with being the first one at enemy home (their far) then losing it to one bunker because they cannot contest it and take too long to kill the bunker. This makes them kinda useless. They cant kill fast enough they cant cap well enough really all they can do is run around mooching off a zerging team and they don’t need mobility to follow their team any class can zerg with a team.

The real problem is troll Thieves.

Scenario1: You are capping a point and there is no enemies around. Your own teammate, a Thief, but he is a troll. He spams stealth on you, completely stopping you or him from capping the point, until an enemy shows up to cap the point, at which point he runs away in a corner to recharge his skills/initiative. Once you kill the enemy, he(with recharged skills and initiative) puts stealth on you again. You never capture the point. Stepping out of range of his Shortbow blasts or Shadow’s Refuge does not work, because if you step out of the point to avoid his Stealth, you are not capping.

Scenario2: You are defending a point which is 1 tick away from being taken by the enemy. You and the enemy are both on the point contesting it. If you step out, the enemy caps the point. Your troll Thief teammate comes in and puts stealth on you the moment he sees you heal(not attacking). This scenario actually happens unintentionally(non-troll) more often than you think, specially in cases where you are downed and still contesting for as long as possible, the Thief puts Shadow’s Refuge on you and starts reviving you, but you lose the point because both of you went Stealth.

Why devs still allow this kind of nonsense in PvP is beyond comprehension.

Turtle Dragon.9241:

The real problem is troll Thieves.

Scenario1: You are capping a point and there is no enemies around. Your own teammate, a Thief, but he is a troll. He spams stealth on you, completely stopping you or him from capping the point, until an enemy shows up to cap the point, at which point he runs away in a corner to recharge his skills/initiative. Once you kill the enemy, he(with recharged skills and initiative) puts stealth on you again. You never capture the point. Stepping out of range of his Shortbow blasts or Shadow’s Refuge does not work, because if you step out of the point to avoid his Stealth, you are not capping.

Scenario2: You are defending a point which is 1 tick away from being taken by the enemy. You and the enemy are both on the point contesting it. If you step out, the enemy caps the point. Your troll Thief teammate comes in and puts stealth on you the moment he sees you heal(not attacking). This scenario actually happens unintentionally(non-troll) more often than you think, specially in cases where you are downed and still contesting for as long as possible, the Thief puts Shadow’s Refuge on you and starts reviving you, but you lose the point because both of you went Stealth.

Why devs still allow this kind of nonsense in PvP is beyond comprehension.

This is another reason why stealth should contest. Thief can simply aoe stealth their team using combo fields or SR. Thief right now is a hindrance to their team if they bring stealth not to mention if you do need to be seen you can now be revealed by revenant which is pretty much a greater version of thief really and offer way more to a team in terms of damage and boon share.

SHORT ANSWER: Stealth is a boon, and Invulnerable is an effect done by boons. Block, evade, and reflect are not boons. They are short-lived combat states, they do not stack in duration like stealth does. Though they can be done in succession, there is no way to continuously reapply these in the gratuitous way that thieves do with stealth.

Block does not always work (several attacks are unblockable). Evade is even more short lived, so there’s really no good reason for changing its capture-point contribution. Reflect does not always work either (melee attacks or projectiles that can’t be reflected). While players can be Revealed to prevent them from Stealthing again temporarily, is there any way a player currently in stealth can be removed from it? I don’t think so.

SuperKorean.7345:

Why Stealth cannot capture points??
,
,
Block
you CAN defend yourself against melee attacks while blocking
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while blocking
you CAN defend yourself against AOE while blocking
you CAN interrupt being focused while blocking
you CAN capture points while blocking
5 CAN 0 CANNOT
,
,
Evade
you CAN defend yourself against melee attacks while evading
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while evading
you CAN defend yourself against AOE while evading
you CAN interrupt being focused while evading
you CAN capture points while evading
5 CAN 0 CANNOT
,
,
Invulnerable
you CAN defend yourself against melee attacks while invuln
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while invuln
you CAN defend yourself against AOE while invuln
you CAN interrupt being focused while invuln
you CANNOT capture points while invuln
4 CAN 1 CANNOT
,
,
Reflect
you CANNOT defend yourself against melee attacks while reflecting
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while reflecting
you CANNOT defend yourself against AOE while reflecting
you CAN interrupt being focused while reflecting
you CAN capture points while reflecting
3 CAN 2 CANNOT
,
,
Stealth
you CANNOT defend yourself against melee attacks while in stealth
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while in stealth
you CANNOT defend yourself against AOE while in stealth
you CAN interrupt being focused while in stealth
you CANNOT capture points while in stealth
2 CAN 3 CANNOT
,
,
This doesnt seem fair.
To make this fair, Stealth should be able to capture points.
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It should be like this =
Stealth
you CANNOT defend yourself against melee attacks while in stealth
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while in stealth
you CANNOT defend yourself against AOE while in stealth
you CAN interrupt being focused while in stealth
you CAN capture points while in stealth
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Why Stealth cannot capture points??
Give me unbiased , mature , and logical explanation please.
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Some of you may not agree with this but I really think all melee attacks should have 50% chance miss against stealth target.
,
,
It should be like this =
Stealth
you MAY (50% chance miss) defend yourself against melee attacks while in stealth
you CAN defend yourself against ranged attacks while in stealth
you MAY (50% chance miss) defend yourself against AOE while in stealth
you CAN interrupt being focused while in stealth
you CAN capture points while in stealth
,

Right now thief only has one useful aspect in pvp unique for other classes. Mobility. They can fight then they can run or rush to points that sadly they cannot contest. That is it. But damage is probably done better by a warrior or mesmer as they have more and can continue to put on the pressure needed to kill a bunker.

Yes, but again, that mobility IS a useful strength. Yes, once on site that Warrior or Mes might be able to do more damage, but they can’t get there as fast as a Thief can. A Thief, currently at least, is not intended to win 1v1s, nor even be the best guy to have next to you in a 2v2, but played well they are the one that is most likely to be next to you in a 2v2, so that it isn’t a 1v2.

Now I’m not saying “thieves are in a great place, no changes needed.” It’s quite possible that there will need to be some changes to buff them up someplace, I just think that any ability to cap or hold points while in stealth would be more annoying than fun overall, and not the best way to give Thieves balance. Personally I’d like to see more options added for a Thief to sustain in a stand-up fight. They should still focus on the “assassination,” the 1v1 or +1 fight, but maybe be a bit better at handling those 1v1, require less lucky breaks or absolute skill differential.

The real problem is troll Thieves.

There are several abilities which other classes can use to similarly “troll” a point. Same team troll potential should not be the target of balance fixes.

SuperKorean.7345:

Kicast.1459:

One must be a thief to be biaised in such a way.

Heralds , Druids , Chronos , Berserkers can capture points while doing long blocks and long invulns
Why Thief and Scrapper cannot capture points while doing stealth??
Scrapper will be the king of stealth capturing using Stealth Gyro

A lot of attacks cannot be blocked, and blocking doesn’t stop condi damage from hurting you. Stealth doesn’t stop condi damage from ticking either, but at least it can help prevent you from getting hit with more attacks, even unblockable ones.