Guild Wars 2

what the title says…
Eles were Immortal for a long time but were brought down to match most professions but rangers, when specced, are able to survive almost anything…

Will this ever be addressed?

Soon we will have 8 same class with different names.

Ranger is unkillable.

Ranger pet is unkillable.

Have fun.

Hm… Why they think Eles is Immortal bf and now Ranger got the same title too? I, bunker Eles, can kill a Bunker Ranger. Sure the fight is long, 10 mins but they are not Immortal, same with Eles. By the way, I play Eles, Not Ranger.

Actually rangers have been fixed (some say nerfed) in the last patches already:

Empathic Bond
- Before: Removed ALL conditions every 10 secs (didn’t transfer them to ranger’s pet)
- Now: Transfer 3 conditions from ranger to his pet every 10 secs

Pet’s F2
- Before: Cooldown reseted on pet swap (example: you could have wolf’s fear evey 20 secs)
- Now: Cooldown no longer resets (example: wolf’s fear is 45sec CD)

Zephyr’s Speed (adept trait – BM)
- Before: Allowed rangers to quick stomp/res every 20 secs.
- Now: Actions are 50% faster but time remains the same (2 secs).
And I know quickness was nerfed in general but quick stomp/resses were the ranger’s thing.

But I agree that the fact that ranger can be a tank while some pets do high damage needs some balance. Same with the extremely long range pets have (that could be fixed easily)

Anyway, ranger since BW2, so somehow enjoying the thieves, eles and mesmers calling us OP.

Stealth.9324:

Hm… Why they think Eles is Immortal bf and now Ranger got the same title too? I, bunker Eles, can kill a Bunker Ranger. Sure the fight is long, 10 mins but they are not Immortal, same with Eles. By the way, I play Eles, Not Ranger.

Because in 10 minutes the game is over

When it’s ready. They’re already watching at them……so probably in 2014 we’ll see some balance, eles kept going for 4 months…don’t hope for less than this…

To be honest the differences between the bunker ele (pre patch) and the bunker ranger are vast:

1, The bunker ele was more mobile and had more escape possibilities so it could run away when it became 3 on 1. The ranger dies.
2, The ranger gives up alot to be survivable/unkillable 1 on 1. It sucks in team fights. Lacks AOE. The ele gave up nothing for survivability. It was still a beast in team fights. A beast 1 on 1. Super mobile. And the best in team fights.

The BM ranger spec could maybe use some minor nerfs but this must be compensated with maybe some buffs to longbow or something.

Ranger might be slightly OP but its very minor if it even is OP. Doesnt deserve the QQ it gets imo.

If in a proper PvP tourney, wasting all your time and resources just to take on 1 bunker is not a wise thing to do. My team usually ignore him and capture the other points. If he join the group fight, he hit like wet noodle,you can actually ignore him.if he is bunker one point, means the other 2 only have 4 people cap. With 5 players on your team can not take down the other 4, I don’t know what to say. But I agree the pet hit hard right now though. In Bunker Ranger, we simply can not ignore the pet at this point of the game. Anet sure buff Pet hard.

Good try, but the bunker ele has never been a beast in teamfights

Archaon.6245:

When it’s ready. They’re already watching at them……so probably in 2014 we’ll see some balance, eles kept going for 4 months…don’t hope for less than this…

When Anet said slowly taking steps to balance game or something related to that from the first SoTG video. I had 2014 in mind because how each patch is displayed.

Lordrosicky.5813:

To be honest the differences between the bunker ele (pre patch) and the bunker ranger are vast:

1, The bunker ele was more mobile and had more escape possibilities so it could run away when it became 3 on 1. The ranger dies.
2, The ranger gives up alot to be survivable/unkillable 1 on 1. It sucks in team fights. Lacks AOE. The ele gave up nothing for survivability. It was still a beast in team fights. A beast 1 on 1. Super mobile. And the best in team fights.

The BM ranger spec could maybe use some minor nerfs but this must be compensated with maybe some buffs to longbow or something.

Ranger might be slightly OP but its very minor if it even is OP. Doesnt deserve the QQ it gets imo.

I disagree with your point.

The ability to run away means we already lose, in PvP, sure you lost 5 point for not being able to kill him but you win the point he is capping,means much more point. Ranger has more mobile than Eles though. Ranger can get access to Swiftness too and at the same time, has the skill similar to RtL which is Whoosh.Sure it can be affected by cripple,chill or whatever but besides Whoosh, you also have Leap from Sword 2 and 3, if used correctly, you can dodge forward. Not to mention with Pet ability too. Ranger can get away if he knows how.

Same with Rnger, Eles also gives up a lot to keep survive. Claiming Eles gives up nothing for survive is just an outright lie. But unlike Ranger, you have pet to do your binding with not really affected by your power scale.The reason why BM is good, not Op at the moment is because they can build as Bunker while their pet hit like a Warrior. Simply put, a fight with RAnger is a fight of 2 players, not one.

Stealth.9324:

I disagree with your point.

The ability to run away means we already lose, in PvP, sure you lost 5 point for not being able to kill him but you win the point he is capping,means much more point. Ranger has more mobile than Eles though. Ranger can get access to Swiftness too and at the same time, has the skill similar to RtL which is Whoosh.Sure it can be affected by cripple,chill or whatever but besides Whoosh, you also have Leap from Sword 2 and 3, if used correctly, you can dodge forward. Not to mention with Pet ability too. Ranger can get away if he knows how.

Same with Rnger, Eles also gives up a lot to keep survive. Claiming Eles gives up nothing for survive is just an outright lie. But unlike Ranger, you have pet to do your binding with not really affected by your power scale.The reason why BM is good, not Op at the moment is because they can build as Bunker while their pet hit like a Warrior. Simply put, a fight with RAnger is a fight of 2 players, not one.

This

Stealth.9324:

Lordrosicky.5813:

To be honest the differences between the bunker ele (pre patch) and the bunker ranger are vast:

1, The bunker ele was more mobile and had more escape possibilities so it could run away when it became 3 on 1. The ranger dies.
2, The ranger gives up alot to be survivable/unkillable 1 on 1. It sucks in team fights. Lacks AOE. The ele gave up nothing for survivability. It was still a beast in team fights. A beast 1 on 1. Super mobile. And the best in team fights.

The BM ranger spec could maybe use some minor nerfs but this must be compensated with maybe some buffs to longbow or something.

Ranger might be slightly OP but its very minor if it even is OP. Doesnt deserve the QQ it gets imo.

I disagree with your point.

The ability to run away means we already lose, in PvP, sure you lost 5 point for not being able to kill him but you win the point he is capping,means much more point. Ranger has more mobile than Eles though. Ranger can get access to Swiftness too and at the same time, has the skill similar to RtL which is Whoosh.Sure it can be affected by cripple,chill or whatever but besides Whoosh, you also have Leap from Sword 2 and 3, if used correctly, you can dodge forward. Not to mention with Pet ability too. Ranger can get away if he knows how.

Same with Rnger, Eles also gives up a lot to keep survive. Claiming Eles gives up nothing for survive is just an outright lie. But unlike Ranger, you have pet to do your binding with not really affected by your power scale.The reason why BM is good, not Op at the moment is because they can build as Bunker while their pet hit like a Warrior. Simply put, a fight with RAnger is a fight of 2 players, not one.

I confirm. A bunker Elementalist must put ~40 trait points in defensive trait lines (Earth and Water) and at least 20 in Arcane. That leaves him with mostly 10 points for an offensive trait line and most of the players just put them in Arcane. In the end, bunker Elementalists gives up every trait point for it. Besides that, most of Elementalists are forced to play such builds, because the lack of other viable options.

As for rangers, I really dislike that I can circle around a PvP map twice an the freaking pet will still chew my leg.

LoL yeah, I find it funny too when he can command a pet to attack one of the cap point while he is half way across the map)

I like rangers the way they are. Good rangers are challenging and fun to fight. I don’t want to see them nerfed in any way. And I definitely enjoy fighting BM rangers. I do my best to kite their pets while staying close enough to the ranger to do decent damage. I play a pure melee build and I can tell you that it’s very hard for me to fight good rangers with their 1500 range, whilst my range is only 130. trying to go close a gap is very hard and once I do i usually walk right into a trap or something with the pet right on my heels the entire time. Greatsword and sword rangers are very mobile but I think their attacks are slow and very easy to avoid. But rangers give me some of the most entertaining battles so I would like to see them remain as they are. Even the bunkers, it takes a while to wear them down, but it’s not impossible…. unless they’re underwater lol, but that’s another story.

Seriously I cant take the guys seriously who thinking pets are like warriors….
There is way to much QQ. I agree that BM is a little bit ahead, BUT that did not happen over night. Actually they are as strong as release of the game. The buffs to F2 skills of the pets were necessary, otherwise no one would use anything apart feline, birds and jaguar. However buffing also toughness and vitality should have been pve only. However nerfing pets or empathic bond is not the solution. Actually they should focus on BM and Nature magic trait line and switch some traits and then everything should be fine. They should not tweak the weapons. Otherwise the same as for the ele will happen. Everyone will just play this 1 kittenty bunker build.
However comparing rangers with ele’s is fail tbh. Ele’ were and still are versatile beasts. The ranger maybe got better in team fights due to drake buffs but its not even close to a prepatch ele…..

If they want to nerf BM they should focus on:
- Signet of the wild -> passive regeneration
- Nature magic -> NB and NP maybe as masters traits

Maybe some other slightly tweaks but that should be already enough in my opinion and also nerfs which do not affect other (more damage focused) builds. However I really would like to see that pet evades (and cannot attack) when ranger is dodging (not skill evading). I mean my pet gets destroyed by the trebuchet all the time…That would be far more effective than health increase for pets.

Nevertheless rangers are not the unbeatable beasts as the forum QQ says. Yes they are strong in 1vs1 but always gets in trouble when two players are against him. He cant contest a point as a bunker ele were able to do because he does not heavy this multiple heal options. Sending a single ranger on far point at the beginning of the match would never be a clever option. And Arenanet designed the class so that the main damage comes from the pet. Back at release alot of rangers were complaining about that fact. Now everyone things they do to much damage…Arenaet however made their decision.

The immortal backpoint ranger is actually very easily pressured/killed by a good condi necro. Just send a necro far point to stack condi’s and every time it is pulled to the pet epi it since it cannot dodge. Since their best condi removal is really only a transfer, there is no wasted effort if you take advantage of the pet before your bleeds wear them down. Even if they swap pets you have the general survivability to outplay them. Not to mention in any team fight it makes wiping them far more efficient when it hit 2+ the ranger. They are annoying and shouldn’t be 1v1d by most professions, but most organized teams have 2 rotators who can push him off far and easily kill him without instant team reaction.

Rangers need no nerfs, just more varied builds. Just BM or trap aren’t that dangerous with a varied team with any experience against them. Lets just see some more diversity out there for them.

Stealth.9324:

If in a proper PvP tourney, wasting all your time and resources just to take on 1 bunker is not a wise thing to do. My team usually ignore him and capture the other points. If he join the group fight, he hit like wet noodle,you can actually ignore him.if he is bunker one point, means the other 2 only have 4 people cap. With 5 players on your team can not take down the other 4, I don’t know what to say. But I agree the pet hit hard right now though. In Bunker Ranger, we simply can not ignore the pet at this point of the game. Anet sure buff Pet hard.

ANet buffed SOME pets hp or toughness and the only big increase was drakes hp. Almost all the other pets got 2-3k hp increase only.
I think the biggest problem is that your pet chase the target half the map and it should be fixed.

Ever? Yes.
Soon? No.

The next patch is going to be a bug fix instead of a balance patch. I wouldn’t expect the nerf before June patch.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ANet buffed SOME pets hp or toughness and the only big increase was drakes hp. Almost all the other pets got 2-3k hp increase only.
I think the biggest problem is that your pet chase the target half the map and it should be fixed.

Yeah I hate that chase crap too, sometimes I forgot to call my pet back and it’s at mansion while I’m at clocktower. It needs a yard limit where it automatically comes to to the ranger.

They also made pets attack 2x faster/run faster/track better/ai is better.

Pet leash is just rely strong right now, you can leash it from side point to mid, to kill treb on khylo, It’s like having an extra player roaming around on your team. When the ranger engages, all he has to do is swap out pets and he’ll have it right back by his side, this means there is 0 risk to pet leashing.

Pet swap should spawn the new pet at current pet location, not at ranger. This would nerf their ability to be effective on bunkering back point + force the ranger to make weighted decisions on when to leash pet (rather than just all the time). Although it would nerf the ability of the ranger’s 1v1, it would facilitate some pretty crazy plays with global pet micro, which would be very interesting to see in competitive play.

If BM ranger is still too strong on backpoint after this change, they could begin to tone down vigor and after that maybe regen. The problem with ranger is that it has pretty much unlimited access to evades to counter burst, and strong passive regen (and condi clear depending on build) to deal with conditions.

The thing that still bothers me is the idea that Ranger, specifically this BM build, hasn’t changed much since launch, but now people think it’s OP.

I don’t get it.

rangers will be buffed again in ANET its their favourite class and since Jon Peters doesnt have any skills he need OP classes

Zodian.6597:

Pet leash is just rely strong right now, you can leash it from side point to mid, to kill treb on khylo, It’s like having an extra player roaming around on your team. When the ranger engages, all he has to do is swap out pets and he’ll have it right back by his side, this means there is 0 risk to pet leashing.

Pet swap should spawn the new pet at current pet location, not at ranger. This would nerf their ability to be effective on bunkering back point + force the ranger to make weighted decisions on when to leash pet (rather than just all the time). Although it would nerf the ability of the ranger’s 1v1, it would facilitate some pretty crazy plays with global pet micro, which would be very interesting to see in competitive play.

If BM ranger is still too strong on backpoint after this change, they could begin to tone down vigor and after that maybe regen. The problem with ranger is that it has pretty much unlimited access to evades to counter burst, and strong passive regen (and condi clear depending on build) to deal with conditions.

Sorry but you write is completely wrong. At first the pet isn’t a additional player. The KI is not really good and you just cant target another player and beeing 100% sure that your pet is targeting another or just doing some kitten. And this has nothing to do with Player skill.

If the pet would spawn at the opponents location, with full life, this would results in even greater qq threads because you cannot get away from the pet and for example birds can burst you for 12k+ within a second. That would not be a nerd its a buff.
Also even if it would be a nerf it would affect ALL builds. So not a good point to start balancing BM rangers.

Also vigor is necessary for other builds – not good to start balancing here, too. You really have to look what are the traits which make the BM unique and since most of the traits in BM are just bullkitten its the nature magic traitline which has to be addressed. Long regeneration uptime comes from Natures bounty (33% is really long) and either should be reduced or edited as a masters trait. Changing Dwayna runes or Forge runes would affect other classes and should be considered. Altough the utilties are different from other builds…so these are the things def should look into and not pet mechanics. Also a trapper or some strange power build pet can chase you around the map…However these builds are not considered to be “OP”.

Rofl, This thread cracks me up.

A. Bunker Build has taken more nerfs then buffs since launch, We use to be much more powerful.

B. Signet of the Wild Regen’s? You realize that other classes with Health Regen actually get better value from theirs right? Warriors for example… Actually gets more from Healing power, same with Thieves… In SPVP it should be healing for about 125 a second, with 188 on Natural Healing every 3 seconds. Regen is a completely separate buff that can be countered other ways.

C. Birds don’t hit for 12k with Bunker build. They’ll pop you for 7k to 8k at most with the build, if you’re running full glass and in cloth.

D. As for Elementalist, They weren’t nerfed cause they were Bunker, They were nerfed because they were good at everything..and I mean everything, They had amazing mobility, amazing group support, amazing aoe, and good damage…BM Bunker build is good 1v1 and 1v2 in some cases, But is solely lacking in group fights and has nothing really for group support cept maybe Vigor and Healing Field.

If you want to kill a BM Bunker Ranger, someone here already suggested a good idea.

Bring a Condition Necro, don’t send a condition necro alone, cause he’ll die, But Bring one to 2v1 the Ranger down.

Basically any good Burster (Mesmer would work) to distract the Ranger while the Necro Kills…

Daecollo.9578:

They also made pets attack 2x faster/run faster/track better/ai is better.

Spreading misinformation hoping for nerfs so you get some easy kills won’t get you anywhere.
Some ppl are constructive in their posts here on the forums, and can be taken seriously. Then there are others, like you…

Xsorus.2507:

C. Birds don’t hit for 12k with Bunker build. They’ll pop you for 7k to 8k at most with the build, if you’re running full glass and in cloth.

Wow, wow, freaking just wow!! Do you really call that “balanced”!? You have a bunker spec dealing the same (if not more) damage than a pure glass cannon build.

And don’t even come with the excuse “oh but only hit that hard on GC nubs”. In the other way, they won’t hit you that hard. And that’s exactly what’s wrong with these super bunker builds!

They shouldn’t die so easily (1×1,2×1) but shouldn’t kill anything either! What we have right now, are those immortal ‘bunkers’ actually killing people, while it’s hard to take them down.

Now, compare the guardian/warrior/thief (forget the cap point)/engineer bunker vs the ranger and the old elementalist. You’ll won’t kill any of them alone, but they won’t kill you either, contrary to those OP bunker specs…

ok, got it!

So to kill any other profession a 1v1 fight is a balanced fight that will end with the victory of the better skilled / speced player!

As for Rangers, you need to bring some friends and one of them MUST be a necro, to be able to kill the ranger…

that sounds pretty balanced to me! what do you think?

<3 Rangers; survivalists — self sufficiency, excellence in battle

OGDeadHead.8326:

Daecollo.9578:

They also made pets attack 2x faster/run faster/track better/ai is better.

Spreading misinformation hoping for nerfs so you get some easy kills won’t get you anywhere.
Some ppl are constructive in their posts here on the forums, and can be taken seriously. Then there are others, like you…

They don’t run any faster then they already did.

They track about the same, though they can hit a bit better.

The only thing they improved on Attacking Faster was Drakes really, Cats/Birds/Dogs which are standard in the BM build don’t really attack faster.

Hell even the HP/Toughness improvement isn’t that big of a deal cause unless you have people paying attention, You won’t kill the pet before he swaps it (Which by the way, if you need more information on that, Soon as he swaps pets, Kill that pet, as you’ll have 16 seconds to do with a BM Bunker build, you’ll disable a portion of his damage and his condition removal…though Necro + Burster is still the best for taking him down)

aw and btw dont even bother engaging one under water…

even if you manage to take him down to downstate, he WILL never die unless you have, (again) a bunch of friends…

Asomal.6453:

Xsorus.2507:

C. Birds don’t hit for 12k with Bunker build. They’ll pop you for 7k to 8k at most with the build, if you’re running full glass and in cloth.

Wow, wow, freaking just wow!! Do you really call that “balanced”!? You have a bunker spec dealing the same (if not more) damage than a pure glass cannon build.

And don’t even come with the excuse “oh but only hit that hard on GC nubs”. In the other way, they won’t hit you that hard. And that’s exactly what’s wrong with these super bunker builds!

They shouldn’t die so easily (1×1,2×1) but shouldn’t kill anything either! What we have right now, are those immortal ‘bunkers’ actually killing people, while it’s hard to take them down.

Now, compare the guardian/warrior/thief (forget the cap point)/engineer bunker vs the ranger and the old elementalist. You’ll won’t kill any of them alone, but they won’t kill you either, contrary to those OP bunker specs…

To hit for 7k-8k on BM Bunker build max, You have to pop Signet of the Hunt and Signet of the Wild while landing a double crit on Raven’s F2. You’re basically giving up your Regen (and speed unless you popped it prefight, which getting them both to land perfectly is hard as hell, and to be honest, You’d never pop Signet of the Wild in a fight as a BM Bunker Ranger, but it is possible which is why I said that’s the max)

Realistically we’re talking 6k Max on a double crit.

Now there are build that aren’t Bm Bunker that can actually approach the damage i listed (and might also be possible) but They’re not hard to kill in comparison.

Volrath.1473:

ok, got it!

So to kill any other profession a 1v1 fight is a balanced fight that will end with the victory of the better skilled / speced player!

As for Rangers, you need to bring some friends and one of them MUST be a necro, to be able to kill the ranger…

that sounds pretty balanced to me! what do you think?

Against a Bunker build, you’re going to need 2 people, It doesn’t matter which bunker build you’re fighting.

The optimal setup for killing a Ranger Bunker build is Necro + Burster

That isn’t to say you couldn’t do it with other, a Trap Ranger + Burster would also work for example… But you need someone to apply conditions heavily on the Ranger.

Engineer would work also, Well timed Supply Drop is death.

OGDeadHead.8326:

Daecollo.9578:

They also made pets attack 2x faster/run faster/track better/ai is better.

Spreading misinformation hoping for nerfs so you get some easy kills won’t get you anywhere.
Some ppl are constructive in their posts here on the forums, and can be taken seriously. Then there are others, like you…

I was going to post something like this too, pets never got a faster attack, it was an ai fix to make them start there attack at non-max range values (making melee hits more reliable). They were never given additional run speed, there is a trait for pet movement speed and a utility. The only thing he was correct about was the ai was improved, misinformation is fun.

Xsorus.2507:

Volrath.1473:

ok, got it!

So to kill any other profession a 1v1 fight is a balanced fight that will end with the victory of the better skilled / speced player!

As for Rangers, you need to bring some friends and one of them MUST be a necro, to be able to kill the ranger…

that sounds pretty balanced to me! what do you think?

Against a Bunker build, you’re going to need 2 people, It doesn’t matter which bunker build you’re fighting.

The optimal setup for killing a Ranger Bunker build is Necro + Burster

That isn’t to say you couldn’t do it with other, a Trap Ranger + Burster would also work for example… But you need someone to apply conditions heavily on the Ranger.

Engineer would work also, Well timed Supply Drop is death.

Sorry but all the other bunker speced professions are soloable, IF there is skill enough to counter them.

i.e. A guardian, if you keep enough pressure on them, remove boons and interrupt the heal, he dies.

i.e. An ele, dodge/evade they’re first attacks and apply condis/pressure dps to force them to get into water attunement, root/slow them right after. dead ele.

i.e. Engi, keep your distance, use ranged attacks and conditions, after he uses it’s heal then move in and spike them down. boon removal also helps allot.

Ranger… fight him until you die or until you are bored and go away…. -_-’ your skill has no play in this fight.

Volrath.1473:

Xsorus.2507:

Volrath.1473:

ok, got it!

So to kill any other profession a 1v1 fight is a balanced fight that will end with the victory of the better skilled / speced player!

As for Rangers, you need to bring some friends and one of them MUST be a necro, to be able to kill the ranger…

that sounds pretty balanced to me! what do you think?

Against a Bunker build, you’re going to need 2 people, It doesn’t matter which bunker build you’re fighting.

The optimal setup for killing a Ranger Bunker build is Necro + Burster

That isn’t to say you couldn’t do it with other, a Trap Ranger + Burster would also work for example… But you need someone to apply conditions heavily on the Ranger.

Engineer would work also, Well timed Supply Drop is death.

Sorry but all the other bunker speced professions are soloable, IF there is skill enough to counter them.

i.e. A guardian, if you keep enough pressure on them, remove boons and interrupt the heal, he dies.

i.e. An ele, dodge/evade they’re first attacks and apply condis/pressure dps to force them to get into water attunement, root/slow them right after. dead ele.

i.e. Engi, keep your distance, use ranged attacks and conditions, after he uses it’s heal then move in and spike them down. boon removal also helps allot.

Ranger… fight him until you die or until you are bored and go away…. -_-’ your skill has no play in this fight.

Rofl, You’re out of your mind if you think you’re going to be killing a bunker build 1v1 in this game unless you’re in fact a bunker build as well.

i tell you what, You make videos of yourself killing Bunker Builds 1v1 in TPvP and then post it in this thread.

You play a thief no less, now I know you’re out of your mind if you think you’re going to be able to kill a Ele and Engineer with range attacks

There is no point to solo something if it is going to take more than 1 minute because you are wasting time.

Ranger signet is not even its heal skill, so they have two sources of healing.

Pets like the birds hit like a truck and melee range against the pet is hard to tell when it is attacking and when it is just flying around except for the F2.

Leashing across the map is ridiculous. If you look at pet stats they really are just another person.

The ranger meanwhile maintains evasion with sword set and bow set.
BM tank has at least 1.5k toughness so it is not even GC status.

I do play a Thief as main but i play other professions too and yes i have soloed bunkers.

Unfortunately i do not have a team since they all stopped playing… I do not have recording software nor a great computer but i’ll try fraping a few matches or duels with guildies if it doesn’t lower my fps to much…

btw haven’t you ever soloed a bunker speced profession?!

HPLT.7132:

Zodian.6597:

Pet leash is just rely strong right now, you can leash it from side point to mid, to kill treb on khylo, It’s like having an extra player roaming around on your team. When the ranger engages, all he has to do is swap out pets and he’ll have it right back by his side, this means there is 0 risk to pet leashing.

Pet swap should spawn the new pet at current pet location, not at ranger. This would nerf their ability to be effective on bunkering back point + force the ranger to make weighted decisions on when to leash pet (rather than just all the time). Although it would nerf the ability of the ranger’s 1v1, it would facilitate some pretty crazy plays with global pet micro, which would be very interesting to see in competitive play.

If BM ranger is still too strong on backpoint after this change, they could begin to tone down vigor and after that maybe regen. The problem with ranger is that it has pretty much unlimited access to evades to counter burst, and strong passive regen (and condi clear depending on build) to deal with conditions.

Sorry but you write is completely wrong. At first the pet isn’t a additional player. The KI is not really good and you just cant target another player and beeing 100% sure that your pet is targeting another or just doing some kitten. And this has nothing to do with Player skill.

If the pet would spawn at the opponents location, with full life, this would results in even greater qq threads because you cannot get away from the pet and for example birds can burst you for 12k+ within a second. That would not be a nerd its a buff.
Also even if it would be a nerf it would affect ALL builds. So not a good point to start balancing BM rangers.

Also vigor is necessary for other builds – not good to start balancing here, too. You really have to look what are the traits which make the BM unique and since most of the traits in BM are just bullkitten its the nature magic traitline which has to be addressed. Long regeneration uptime comes from Natures bounty (33% is really long) and either should be reduced or edited as a masters trait. Changing Dwayna runes or Forge runes would affect other classes and should be considered. Altough the utilties are different from other builds…so these are the things def should look into and not pet mechanics. Also a trapper or some strange power build pet can chase you around the map…However these builds are not considered to be “OP”.

TBH it’s dodges which keep ranger up so long, regen isn’t rely even that strong, they can just stack so much other things like signet/spirit elite on top of it that give non-regen HoT’s so it seems stronger than it rely is.

I rely hope they end up just nerfing vigor duration across the board though, dodging should be meaningful/well timed to be used effectively, not a random button to spam and mitigate all direct damage. Random dodges should be punished, not rewarded.

The pet roam thing was just something I was thinking about though. And most pets die before they can rely get any dps out, birds attack speed is slowest out of all pets am i wrong,? easy to time with evade. So you could easily burst down the 2nd pet before swap is off CD, when it dies it would slowly walk back to the ranger like it normally does. And yeah it would require some micro + AI tweaks. It was just an idea I got while reading this thread.

Every class has the option of being “immortal”.

I don’t think people are complaining about the ranger really being op in damage, but they number of stuns they have. When I fight a ranger, I can’t even use my skills half the time because they stun me, fear me, stun me, knock me, all the while the pet is killing me. I have experience with most classes, and I don’t think they are op, they are just fantastic 1v1 due too all the stunning just like phantasm mes or thieves (which no one is complaining about). In fact, they have little too none stun blocking, except they’re stability elite skill. If you want to kill them, wait for the stability to cool down, then knock them and do the burst. They’ll die.

As someone who who plays primarily tournament and consider myself relatively good at engi, mesmer, guardian, and ranger, I can contest that rangers suck in group fights not just against necro, but phantasm mesmers, warrior bursts(in groups), thieves, and other classes depending on the class. The reason, their pet is killed. We have no damage ourselves. Warriors and Guardian damage builds can easily kill our pets at a point. The only problem I can see is the pet wandering abilities. I think anet should perhaps fix the pets wandering the map, but otherwise rangers are just fine. Stop complaining and learn to fight the class.

What they should do is take off the cripple on the sword auto attack so rangers that run BM have to actively be trying to get their pet to hit their target with snares that have actual CD’s (traps, muddy terrain, or the 4/5 bow skills) instead of just being able to bonfire 5 on point and then spam 1 until their jaguar mauls their crippled opponent to death.

I don’t see why there is so much QQ about the ranger and not the phantasm mesmer or the d/d soldier amu ele? Both are just as powerful in 1 on 1s and also have aoe while BM does not.

Volrath.1473:

Xsorus.2507:

Volrath.1473:

ok, got it!

So to kill any other profession a 1v1 fight is a balanced fight that will end with the victory of the better skilled / speced player!

As for Rangers, you need to bring some friends and one of them MUST be a necro, to be able to kill the ranger…

that sounds pretty balanced to me! what do you think?

Against a Bunker build, you’re going to need 2 people, It doesn’t matter which bunker build you’re fighting.

The optimal setup for killing a Ranger Bunker build is Necro + Burster

That isn’t to say you couldn’t do it with other, a Trap Ranger + Burster would also work for example… But you need someone to apply conditions heavily on the Ranger.

Engineer would work also, Well timed Supply Drop is death.

Sorry but all the other bunker speced professions are soloable, IF there is skill enough to counter them.

i.e. A guardian, if you keep enough pressure on them, remove boons and interrupt the heal, he dies.

i.e. An ele, dodge/evade they’re first attacks and apply condis/pressure dps to force them to get into water attunement, root/slow them right after. dead ele.

i.e. Engi, keep your distance, use ranged attacks and conditions, after he uses it’s heal then move in and spike them down. boon removal also helps allot.

Ranger… fight him until you die or until you are bored and go away…. -_-’ your skill has no play in this fight.

DPS guardians, Oeggs, Phantasm mesmers, other BMs, soldier amu eles, and [SW] necros have all beat my BM spec in a 1 on 1.

To fight a ranger kite the pet while damaging the ranger, wait for their defensive utilities and their heal to be used and then burst. Kite the pet while dropping aoe on both of them until the pet is low then kill the pet. When the ranger tries to heal just interrupt it like you would do for any other class. Your ability to use the terrain and kite the pet plays a huge roll in whether or not you will beat a BM. Unless you are an offensive guardian BM rangers can just sit there and face tank you until you die because you are stupid enough to not kite 90% of their damage.

Also, not sure how you counter a guardians heal when 99% of guardians block while they heal.

Stealth.9324:

Lordrosicky.5813:

To be honest the differences between the bunker ele (pre patch) and the bunker ranger are vast:

1, The bunker ele was more mobile and had more escape possibilities so it could run away when it became 3 on 1. The ranger dies.
2, The ranger gives up alot to be survivable/unkillable 1 on 1. It sucks in team fights. Lacks AOE. The ele gave up nothing for survivability. It was still a beast in team fights. A beast 1 on 1. Super mobile. And the best in team fights.

The BM ranger spec could maybe use some minor nerfs but this must be compensated with maybe some buffs to longbow or something.

Ranger might be slightly OP but its very minor if it even is OP. Doesnt deserve the QQ it gets imo.

I disagree with your point.

The ability to run away means we already lose, in PvP, sure you lost 5 point for not being able to kill him but you win the point he is capping,means much more point. Ranger has more mobile than Eles though. Ranger can get access to Swiftness too and at the same time, has the skill similar to RtL which is Whoosh.Sure it can be affected by cripple,chill or whatever but besides Whoosh, you also have Leap from Sword 2 and 3, if used correctly, you can dodge forward. Not to mention with Pet ability too. Ranger can get away if he knows how.

Same with Rnger, Eles also gives up a lot to keep survive. Claiming Eles gives up nothing for survive is just an outright lie. But unlike Ranger, you have pet to do your binding with not really affected by your power scale.The reason why BM is good, not Op at the moment is because they can build as Bunker while their pet hit like a Warrior. Simply put, a fight with RAnger is a fight of 2 players, not one.

QFT.

Volrath.1473:

I do play a Thief as main but i play other professions too and yes i have soloed bunkers.

Unfortunately i do not have a team since they all stopped playing… I do not have recording software nor a great computer but i’ll try fraping a few matches or duels with guildies if it doesn’t lower my fps to much…

btw haven’t you ever soloed a bunker speced profession?!

I’ve soloed bunker professions as BM Bunker, But only the Guardian is the easy one to bring down quickly, the Engineer and Elementalist both take a while (Well the Elementalist use to be quick but with confusion nerf not anymore)

Playing my Thief though, You’re not taking down a Bunker Guardian quickly, nor a the other two.

If a solo Thief could kill Bunkers in the back easy, the Bunker Meta wouldn’t exist.

The reason the Bunker in the back exist is because of how long it takes to kill an actual bunker..

Hence why you bring 2 people, And in this case, Bring a Heavy Condition and a Burster and you’ll kill the Ranger.

The only thing that I really have a problem about rangers is that freaking pet leash. I’d be fighting a ranger then seeing that I can’t defeat him, run across the map, and that stupid pet will still be doing 2k dmg. While survivable, it’s still really annoying and plus I’m wasting heal skills to heal from that dumb damage. Those pets should have longer range than weapons but not long to the point where it can chase me to the other side of the map.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

There is no point to solo something if it is going to take more than 1 minute because you are wasting time.

Ranger signet is not even its heal skill, so they have two sources of healing.

Pets like the birds hit like a truck and melee range against the pet is hard to tell when it is attacking and when it is just flying around except for the F2.

Leashing across the map is ridiculous. If you look at pet stats they really are just another person.

The ranger meanwhile maintains evasion with sword set and bow set.
BM tank has at least 1.5k toughness so it is not even GC status.

When I ended up testing it a while back, Warriors actually had comparable if not better healing then the Ranger when specced with Healing power.

However unlike Warriors, Rangers can actually get away with it, as a Warrior you really can’t run Condition/Toughness/HP because your condition damage isn’t really as good as a Ranger. Cleric Builds might work, I’m honestly not completely sure on that…But It won’t be as powerful as the Condition of BM Bunker.

sephyranna.3095:

The only thing that I really have a problem about rangers is that freaking pet leash. I’d be fighting a ranger then seeing that I can’t defeat him, run across the map, and that stupid pet will still be doing 2k dmg. While survivable, it’s still really annoying and plus I’m wasting heal skills to heal from that dumb damage. Those pets should have longer range than weapons but not long to the point where it can chase me to the other side of the map.

Turn around and kill the pet, He either lets it die, or Swaps it, and then it won’t be on you anymore cause he’s back at the point