Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Time warp really you people still are griping about that? It is our only quickness option while other classes have some available in their utility and very situational plus it can be countered which I am not going into here there are other threads about it.

Oh? Necros have utility access to quickness? I must have missed something there then. Can’t say for eles since I haven’t played one yet, but I don’t recall seeing those pop any quickness either.

jportell.2197:

And a damage decrease in mind wrack wouldn’t be a step in the right direction

If you want to argue against the fact the burst is ridiculously high (read: too high) while also inflicing multiple stack of condis, then I’m not sure there’s any point in dicussing things to start with.

WE are still not as powerful as thieves

Yea, (normally) you can see a mesmer and its clones closing in on you!

I have seen a couple D/D and S/D eles that have burned people down faster than any as you put it “face rolling mesmer” ever could.

I’m fairly certain a mesmer would melt those poor souls in a matter of milliseconds.

Say for instance the shatter chain we have two shatters that we line up and use one get 3 more clones up and use the other. Most people that I use this on NEVER EVER dodge… Its like they forget that its an option when in PvP or WvW. You have two dodges available before endurance runs out and all shatters can be dodged but its like people just freeze because they see all these clones running at them.

And here I was thinking proper mesmers only shatter immobilized/stunned/crippled/otherwise cc’ed targets, or preferably use narrow passages/small points to fight in, so clone movements aren’t that easy to discern. Stupid I.

jportell.2197:

I really feel like that is what people want is to just forget the skills and have everyone go around pressing one. It is a sad state of affairs. Having said that I will say that as a mesmer I have an extremely hard time killing Condi necros because mesmers have limited condition removal options and your guys health is just ridiculous. But you need love in general.

When facing a shatter mes with a condi nec, it all comes down to dodging the mesmer’s first, or first two shatters. If you get nailed, mes wins. If you don’t, the conds will (normally) wear them down before they can repeat the chain. That, and having DS charged or empty makes a world of difference, too.

If the mes runs a pistol offhand (or has that completely fallen out of favour now?), the stun followed by immobilize and shatter is guaranteed to make the nec either burn all of his DS on the spike (granted they charged some of it beforehand with marks, or in previous fights), burn stun breakers with typically extremely long CDs (only psignet is somewhat worth it because it’d also cleanse immobilize..granted you’re facing them), or precast wurm (but that only works when you can see them coming, or make preparations prior to the fight).
So yea, necs need some loving.

Woops didn’t know necros didn’t have that in general I think that class needs some serious love though. Other classes such as rangers and engis do as well. If I said that nerfing mindwrack was a step in the right direction I must have been drunk. Mindwrack has already been nerfed I do not wish to see it become more so. But what you are saying is dodging is an option when facing mesmers? Wow… I guess most people don’t think to do that. This is really a thread about skills that break stun when they shouldn’t the OP just felt the need to single out mesmers no clue what class he plays but while playing on my thief I found that steal breaks stun and the tool tip never mentioned stun… I really do think though that all instant cast abilities on all classes can still be used while stunned.

Only Mesmers are defending the mesmer class! They are biased! Guess what, it works both ways, you’re biased against mesmers because you’re not a mesmer.

Have you ever thought that Mace warrior wasn’t supposed to beat a shatter mesmer?
This game isn’t balanced so your build wins every fight.

1v1, One clean hit from Greatsword(3) after phase retreating from a Bullsrush/skullcrack (Still stunned can’t dodge) takes me to half health.
Tell me about your skill cap.

Please explain to me why the only reliable ability out of instagib needs to be nerfed?
Should I die after using up a defensive utility?

“Say a thief pops on you with basilisk venom, you had staff out and weren’t on cooldown or blinked away, That’s 3 Seconds of DPS that’s gone!”

Yes, That 2 seconds of dps would have killed the mesmer, again, tell me about your skill cap.

Also, the mesmer is not the best source of sustained DPS, the d/d Ele is.

jportell.2197:

Vision.3541:

hharry.1967:

Agree, if it doesnt break stun/knock downs it shouldnt be able to be used, prolly a bug.

Dont think its a bug, thieves get the same thing with their sword skill. Its just not as problematic against thieves

Woah woah woah not as problematic? I hadn’t read all your posts but every twelve seconds is nowhere near as fast as just as often as you’d like because you don’t use cooldowns. Sorry man. This seems really bias to me.

Its lets problematic to me because thieves typicall go back to melee range after breaking, so yes that is bias. But this thread is about mesmers.

Im saying theres something that needs fixing about your class and youre basically saying yeah well hes doing it too so it must be okay if mesmers have it. Were not here to discuss thieves only mesmers and possibly a dervish 2013 comeback tour

Darnis.4056:

Only Mesmers are defending the mesmer class! They are biased! Guess what, it works both ways, you’re biased against mesmers because you’re not a mesmer.

Have you ever thought that Mace warrior wasn’t supposed to beat a shatter mesmer?
This game isn’t balanced so your build wins every fight.

1v1, One clean hit from Greatsword(3) after phase retreating from a Bullsrush/skullcrack (Still stunned can’t dodge) takes me to half health.
Tell me about your skill cap.

Please explain to me why the only reliable ability out of instagib needs to be nerfed?
Should I die after using up a defensive utility?

“Say a thief pops on you with basilisk venom, you had staff out and weren’t on cooldown or blinked away, That’s 3 Seconds of DPS that’s gone!”

Yes, That 2 seconds of dps would have killed the mesmer, again, tell me about your skill cap.

Also, the mesmer is not the best source of sustained DPS, the d/d Ele is.

It shouldve killed the mesmer, engineers cant block while stunned but you pretty much can, thats not fair to have on a weapon skill it should be used as a way to avoid situations like that before they happen not white out your sloppy playing after you let somebody stun you with a 45 second CD.

Why are you bringing engineers into this?..

Ranger has dodges on his weapon afaik, Thief has Shortbow dodge, Warrior/guardian has Shield or mace blocks, Engineer can daze with their shield..

Each class has a defensive weapon they can use, Staff is mesmer’s Defensive weapon.

Darnis.4056:

Why are you bringing engineers into this?..

Ranger has dodges on his weapon afaik, Thief has Shortbow dodge, Warrior/guardian has Shield or mace blocks, Engineer can daze with their shield..

Each class has a defensive weapon they can use, Staff is mesmer’s Defensive weapon.

Except none of them can use any of that while stunned, dazed, or knocked down. Only mesmer

This is the problem here

nerva.7940:

honestly, i wanna see shatter mesmers nerfed into the ground. it’s a cheap, low skillcap, facerolling spec. i want portal and timewarp gone. hopefully mindwrack sees a 20% damage decrease on the 28th. that would be a step in the right direction.

I stumbled upon this one, and I frankly have to ask you: What should mesmers do? Phantasm-builds are even more cheesy, face-rolling and boring. Not to mention, you will be entirely forced into being 1-dimensional and hence have little to no defense. Condition-builds? Mesmer don’t come close to necros, ranger … or even engineers in that department. I don’t like the state of mesmers either, but you can’t make them unplayable … no class should be that. They need diversity, if anything.

Not only is it’s range pitiful, but once you use Illusionary Leap, you have 5 seconds to swap for the stunbreaker/immobilize.. It isn’t as if you can simply leap out of a stun/daze with no preparation, you have to see it coming.
Phase Retreat does no damage and generates a clone. At least ONE of these should be a stunbreaker.

I love the arguements that Mesmers are using again and again to justify it.

Thieves can do it , so why shouldnt we be able to?

Its the same arguement they use to justify burst , anti-stun, disables , escapes.

The point is ; Thieves arent representative of GW2 classes.

Visionary.5681:

I love the arguements that Mesmers are using again and again to justify it.

Thieves can do it , so why shouldnt we be able to?

Its the same arguement they use to justify burst , anti-stun, disables , escapes.

To justify… The same things everyone else can do with the right weapons/utilities?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Visionary.5681:

I love the arguements that Mesmers are using again and again to justify it.

Thieves can do it , so why shouldnt we be able to?

Its the same arguement they use to justify burst , anti-stun, disables , escapes.

To justify… The same things everyone else can do with the right weapons/utilities?

No other class can use a weapon skill to break a stun, it causes so many problems for melee. Thieves can do that but theyre melee as well so it isnt as much of a problem.

Guys Im not asking to nerf mesmers here, all Im saying is these two skills should be used to PREVENT getting stunned, not to get out of it

Channeled abilities will seek you through your blink/PR good luck “Preventing the Stun”

Phase retreat would be terrible if you couldn’t use it to MOVE somewhat out of range during stun, (not break stun).

You’re talking about making 100b warriors Burst Elementalists and thieves SUPER effective at killing mesmers instantly and without any resistance, Guess what happens when you blink and they just gap close again?

God knows going invisible or making 2 clones right under a warrior does almost nothing for your chances of survival, What about our other survival utilities, we don’t have any? Where’s our 5 seconds of Block 5 seconds of endure pain 5 seconds of Elixer twice?

Want to blow that distortion? Get rid of all your clones for dps and survive an extra 3-4 seconds if you somehow had 3 clones at the start of the fight?

Fine, NEXT combo, Warrior/thief dps doesn’t stop and needs effective counters otherwise cloth classes explode.

Mesmers are supposed to slip through your fingers, that’s their Class base as outlined by the devs.

Darnis.4056:

Channeled abilities will seek you through your blink/PR good luck “Preventing the Stun”

Phase retreat would be terrible if you couldn’t use it to MOVE somewhat out of range during stun, (not break stun).

You’re talking about making 100b warriors Burst Elementalists and thieves SUPER effective at killing mesmers instantly and without any resistance, Guess what happens when you blink and they just gap close again?

God knows going invisible or making 2 clones right under a warrior does almost nothing for your chances of survival, What about our other survival utilities, we don’t have any? Where’s our 5 seconds of Block 5 seconds of endure pain 5 seconds of Elixer twice?

Want to blow that distortion? Get rid of all your clones for dps and survive an extra 3-4 seconds if you somehow had 3 clones at the start of the fight?

Fine, NEXT combo, Warrior/thief dps doesn’t stop and needs effective counters otherwise cloth classes explode.

Mesmers are supposed to slip through your fingers, that’s their Class base as outlined by the devs.

Block is 3 seconds and you can still CC and condition damage through endure pain, you guys get 2 second inv with the sword skill, 3 seconds with distort, a stun break retreat and stealth to top it off. I’d say you have more than enough gap closers and stun breakers for one class

You can still condition damage through Sword skill/Distortion…
For sure as I’ve gone down as I started to blur..

Anything currently on will still do damage sure, but you can’t apply them while it’s active.

I think alot of mesmer players are missing the point of this thread. It’s not really calling for a nerf but more asking, “Is this working as intended? If so, is this fair?” Any skill that acts as a stunbreaker should say so in the tooltip. So that way when Devs come around to balance things out, it is clearly defined how the skills and traits are working. So they can say “Okay lets look at mesmer, they run utility stun breaks like just about everyone else, but wait some of their weapons skills can also allow them to escape while stunned? Hmm, lets reveiw this.”

Nobody is arguing that those skills are not flavorful to the class. Yes, it is obvious that mesmers are the master of illusion and confusion. Whenever you fight one there are 3 extra guys fighting you and each is shooting rainbows and butterflies. Very confusing indeed.

Just don’t defned that your ability which does not clearly state that it allows you to move while stunned, does. Ranged classes always have an inhearent advantage against melee classes. This is why you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. So at the very least the ammount, and frequency of escape skills at your disposal should be equal to, not greater than, the ammount of gap closers that melee classes have. Otherwise melee does not stand a chance in hell.

Darnis.4056:

You can still condition damage through Sword skill/Distortion…
For sure as I’ve gone down as I started to blur..

yeah my man up theres right, you still take damage from conditions but with endure pain you can still put conditions on and stun/knockback w.e
Mesmers avoidCCs and other conditions during blur.
Not complaining about that though, I think thats fair to have

YojimboJones.6243:

I think alot of mesmer players are missing the point of this thread. It’s not really calling for a nerf but more asking, “Is this working as intended? If so, is this fair?” Any skill that acts as a stunbreaker should say so in the tooltip. So that way when Devs come around to balance things out, it is clearly defined how the skills and traits are working. So they can say “Okay lets look at mesmer, they run utility stun breaks like just about everyone else, but wait some of their weapons skills can also allow them to escape while stunned? Hmm, lets reveiw this.”

Nobody is arguing that those skills are not flavorful to the class. Yes, it is obvious that mesmers are the master of illusion and confusion. Whenever you fight one there are 3 extra guys fighting you and each is shooting rainbows and butterflies. Very confusing indeed.

Just don’t defned that your ability which does not clearly state that it allows you to move while stunned, does. Ranged classes always have an inhearent advantage against melee classes. This is why you don’t bring a knife to a gunfight. So at the very least the ammount, and frequency of escape skills at your disposal should be equal to, not greater than, the ammount of gap closers that melee classes have. Otherwise melee does not stand a chance in hell.

This guy, hes my favorite so far

It’s an instant ability… I think other instant abilities can still be used while stunned, like… Steal ?

I get that we have a weapon with a unique ability, but It’s a very defensive weapon.. and heavily changed and moved around since beta..

Darnis.4056:

It’s an instant ability… I think other instant abilities can still be used while stunned, like… Steal ?

I get that we have a weapon with a unique ability, but It’s a very defensive weapon.. and heavily changed and moved around since beta..

Except that steal cant be used to erase a well placed and carefully planned skull crack like retreat and leap can

Illusionary leap onto another person and still remain stunned, effectively making Blurred frenzy do 0 damage to the target as he is free to go….

It’s a 400 foot at max movement, and fails often and MUST be set up Prior to your well placed skull crack_ AND_ requires a second target.

Pretty sure Phase retreat does not break stun but only moves you as well, as there is a lag time before you are able to use skills again, long enough to GS 3/5 into GS2…

These skills do not stunbreak.. they are instants.. just like the other instant skills..
In fact steal can do the same thing, as it moves you to the second target.

Not sure why you’re argueing as if Mesmer is not melee, as most mesmers certainly are.

Darnis.4056:

Illusionary leap onto another person and still remain stunned, effectively making Blurred frenzy do 0 damage to the target as he is free to go….

It’s a 400 foot at max movement, and fails often and MUST be set up Prior to your well placed skull crack_ AND_ requires a second target.

Pretty sure Phase retreat does not break stun but only moves you as well, as there is a lag time before you are able to use skills again, long enough to GS 3/5 into GS2…

These skills do not stunbreak.. they are instants.. just like the other instant skills..
In fact steal can do the same thing, as it moves you to the second target.

You keep comparing a mesmer weapon skill on low(ish) cooldown to a class defining, F1 theif skill, on a longer cooldown. Not to mention steal is not intended to be used defensively, it is usualy part of setting up their burst combo. Using it defensively means yes you get out of that situation but now you don’t have your strong combo opener available.

Very different things, and only worth comparing to show how differently they function. You might as well be comparing it to engineer Rocket boots. But nobody would compare a mesmer to an engineer because one of these sees alot of play and is under the magnafying glass for balance, while the other sees only fringe play and requires a huge skill level just to perform…average.

Darnis.4056:

Illusionary leap onto another person and still remain stunned, effectively making Blurred frenzy do 0 damage to the target as he is free to go….

It’s a 400 foot at max movement, and fails often and MUST be set up Prior to your well placed skull crack_ AND_ requires a second target.

Pretty sure Phase retreat does not break stun but only moves you as well, as there is a lag time before you are able to use skills again, long enough to GS 3/5 into GS2…

These skills do not stunbreak.. they are instants.. just like the other instant skills..
In fact steal can do the same thing, as it moves you to the second target.

Not sure why you’re argueing as if Mesmer is not melee, as most mesmers certainly are.

You cant compare a 45 second F1 to a 12 second weapon skill

Weve been over this already, were not here to compare your skills to thieves. Steal is a skill that with shadowstep you and will only avoid stun placement if more than one enemy is around. Phase retreat is one button and pulls you back even if its 1v1

>>>>>>>>>>If youre gonna post here, stop comparing youre skills to thief skills. Were not talking about thieves here<<<<<<<<<<<<

Vision.3541:

Darnis.4056:

It’s an instant ability… I think other instant abilities can still be used while stunned, like… Steal ?

I get that we have a weapon with a unique ability, but It’s a very defensive weapon.. and heavily changed and moved around since beta..

Except that steal cant be used to erase a well placed and carefully planned skull crack like retreat and leap can

YES IT CAN! While playing last night on my thief without it being traited steal would not only break the stun but make me invisible upon using it. THIS WAS WITHOUT IT BEING TRAITED (which it should only stealth you upon use it you have it traited.) So yes it can be used to erase a will placed skull crack. NOT ONLY THAT but because it made me go stealth it set me up for the instagib combo which can still do more damage and be pulled off faster than any mesmer.

So because you don’t want to talk about a thief skill that can do the same thing only better the people defending their class can’t say anything? Hogwash sir. It is clear what this thread was from the beginning even if you ever so subtly tried to say other wise. Block is three seconds depending on the class. Say for instance warriors block lasts 3 seconds no matter how many hits they take. Engineers with a shield have to blocks one for projectiles one for melee that stuns. THEN ON TOP OF THAT if they have toolkit equipped they have one that lasts a whopping 4 seconds. The ONE ability that mesmers have to block only lasts 2 seconds and if they take a hit it generates a clone. To the person that stated thief uses steal offensively not defensively same thing goes for the majority of mesmers and iLeap. And the class has already been looked at for its “balancing” issue and they have stated they are sharing the reason that we are unbalanced to other classes (portal). And this class sees a lot of play? Not compared to the number of instagib thieves, bunker eles, bunker guardians, and warriors. Also if we want to compare weaponskills that break stun yup I’m bringing up the thief again it says in there that infiltrators strike and the subsequent return break stun on top of this the skills that they have that already to break stun are steal (intentional or not) infiltrators signet, and shadow return also I noticed that most thief signets can be used while stunned many of which don’t mention this but they are INSTANT cast abilities.

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that any ability in ANY class that is either A. Instant cast or B. An instant movement ability ignores the rules of stun or breaks stun. Now is this an oversight? Maybe but maybe the way it was designed they couldn’t make these instant cast/instant move abilities be what they are INSTANT and also not be used during stun. So they made an executive decision an implemented the skills anyways because they felt that the benefit of it outweighed the risk. Now in order for them to do what you are asking would mean they would have to look at all instant cast/instant movement abilities. And the only reason I bring the thief up so much is because it was my first character so it is what I am most familiar with outside of the mesmer.

The thief skill i think hes referring to is sword/dagger skill 2?

That teleports you to your opponent so might not dodge the burst, and generally, thiefs dont run sword/dagger, its considered not particularly useful weapon combo.
So unless another thief skill allows for this, im not sure its an issue, a thief is already at a disadvantage for running that weapon set up.

Yes steal also does this! Maybe on a longer cooldown but my point is any ability that is instant cast and instant move is going to do the same things regarding stun. It is not just mesmers but any class that has instant cast abilities can use them while stunned.

Vision.3541:

>>>>>>>>>>If youre gonna post here, stop comparing youre skills to thief skills. Were not talking about thieves here<<<<<<<<<<<<

Looking at you Jpo

IDC if you are looking at me I am talking about instant cast abilities and this just so happens to be one of them for the thief that fits the same lines as the mesmer skills you are griping about. So I am talking across the board sir. You feel the need to single out our class well I am showing you that it is not just our class yet you seem intent on ignoring said evidence so why I ask? Do you play a thief and don’t want people to notice this? It is instant cast abilities across the board that have this problem. Stop trying to single out mesmers.

daydream.2938:

The thief skill i think hes referring to is sword/dagger skill 2?

That teleports you to your opponent so might not dodge the burst, and generally, thiefs dont run sword/dagger, its considered not particularly useful weapon combo.
So unless another thief skill allows for this, im not sure its an issue, a thief is already at a disadvantage for running that weapon set up.

no not referring to that skill referring to steal.

jportell.2197:

IDC if you are looking at me I am talking about instant cast abilities and this just so happens to be one of them for the thief that fits the same lines as the mesmer skills you are griping about. So I am talking across the board sir. You feel the need to single out our class well I am showing you that it is not just our class yet you seem intent on ignoring said evidence so why I ask? Do you play a thief and don’t want people to notice this? It is instant cast abilities across the board that have this problem. Stop trying to single out mesmers.

Listen
Listen real close cause you keep coming back with this

Nobody cares about steal because it doesnt happen often enough to make a loophole in stuns, nobody cares they can instant step once every 45 seconds. Literally nobody cares about that.

This thread is about leap and retreat with their 12 second CDs, stop comparing yourself to a thief like that makes everything okay. Seriously. Stop

Im not comparing to thief I am comparing to instant cast. Which as it happens is in all classes. I am just more familiar with the thief. You seem intent on singling out mesmers which is ridiculous.

jportell.2197:

Im not comparing to thief I am comparing to instant cast. Which as it happens is in all classes. I am just more familiar with the thief. You seem intent on singling out mesmers which is ridiculous.

Okay, and nobody but mesmers have an instant that breaks stun every 12 seconds. Do you not understand why thats a problem?

TO CHANGE THIS THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE HOW ALL INSTANT CAST ABILITIES WORK. DO you understand that? The staff has gotten nerfed for mesmer and Ileap/swap is buggy and works maybe 50% of the time if the stars align. Just give up on it you are asking for something to be addressed that is bigger than what you are thinking. Do you not understand that?

jportell.2197:

TO CHANGE THIS THEY WOULD HAVE TO CHANGE HOW ALL INSTANT CAST ABILITIES WORK. DO you understand that? The staff has gotten nerfed for mesmer and Ileap/swap is buggy and works maybe 50% of the time if the stars align. Just give up on it you are asking for something to be addressed that is bigger than what you are thinking. Do you not understand that?

Really wouldnt have to, they could just increase the CD

Shield bash is a 1 second stun and that CD is 25 seconds, retreat is a stun breaker and recharges in 12 seconds… See why this is a problem?

It doesn’t BREAK the stun it just moves you. Once you moved you are still stunned and unable to do anything else. And if they increase the kittening cooldown to say 30 seconds then only one skill on the staff aside from auto attack will be available in under 30 seconds NOW HOW IS THAT FAIR?

jportell.2197:

It doesn’t BREAK the stun it just moves you. Once you moved you are still stunned and unable to do anything else. And if they increase the kittening cooldown to say 30 seconds then only one skill on the staff aside from auto attack will be available in under 30 seconds NOW HOW IS THAT FAIR?

If youre moved why does it matter, melee still cant touch you. Might as well be broken.

25 second CD and i think thats fair

and how many classes have weapon skill that recharges faster than that? pretty much all… you are essentially saying that no weapon skill on the staff should recharge faster than 20 seconds aside from one. HOW IS THAT FAIR TO STAFF MESMERS?

jportell.2197:

and how many classes have weapon skill that recharges faster than that? pretty much all… you are essentially saying that no weapon skill on the staff should recharge faster than 20 seconds aside from one. HOW IS THAT FAIR TO STAFF MESMERS?

So is your plan to keep mesmers exactly the same forever and never touch them no matter what?

Just say yes or no

No and Yes.

I want them to address the long list of bugs that have plagued the mesmer class since BWE1. Duelist Discipline trait isn’t ever freaking spelled correctly and the tooltip reads “Increases range and power of pitol skills” It not only doesn’t do that but it changes it to a 100% combo finisher but cuts the damage in half. So it makes it to powerful but useless in the same trait. I want illusionary leap to actually be able to work on the z-axis instead of just standing there for 3 seconds if you are on a freaking slope (maybe then I would be okay with the swap not breaking stun). I want the clone generated from deceptive evasion to attack what I am targeted on not some random bunny then disappearing making that clone useless. I want our phase retreat to not teleport us into walls there by rendering us useless to our teams. I want our stealth skills to stack like a thieves (unless ANet doesn’t want that to be so). I want our skills that state they block/reflect projectiles to actually do that. If we get hit with barrage from a ranger neither feed back nor mimic work properly. So it wastes our utility slot. Do I think that mesmers are sooo terribly bad off right now absolutely not. But I do hope that we don’t continually suffer nerfs seeing as we have gotten them in every patch since release and there by becoming a useless class.

Also for your reading pleasure a note from Jonathan Sharp in regards to Mesmers and other classes slipperiness:

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

And I feel this is true thieves can disengage fights much more easily than us (actually we can’t disengage at all seeing as we have no speed buff unless we use a focus thereby forcing us into a weapon choice). So we should be slippery we should be able to open gaps if we get stunned. We aren’t meant to just stand there and let you pound on us stunned or not.

jportell.2197:

No and Yes.

I want them to address the long list of bugs that have plagued the mesmer class since BWE1. Duelist Discipline trait isn’t ever freaking spelled correctly and the tooltip reads “Increases range and power of pitol skills” It not only doesn’t do that but it changes it to a 100% combo finisher but cuts the damage in half. So it makes it to powerful but useless in the same trait. I want illusionary leap to actually be able to work on the z-axis instead of just standing there for 3 seconds if you are on a freaking slope (maybe then I would be okay with the swap not breaking stun). I want the clone generated from deceptive evasion to attack what I am targeted on not some random bunny then disappearing making that clone useless. I want our phase retreat to not teleport us into walls there by rendering us useless to our teams. I want our stealth skills to stack like a thieves (unless ANet doesn’t want that to be so). I want our skills that state they block/reflect projectiles to actually do that. If we get hit with barrage from a ranger neither feed back nor mimic work properly. So it wastes our utility slot. Do I think that mesmers are sooo terribly bad off right now absolutely not. But I do hope that we don’t continually suffer nerfs seeing as we have gotten them in every patch since release and there by becoming a useless class.

Also for your reading pleasure a note from Jonathan Sharp in regards to Mesmers and other classes slipperiness:

We want the Thief to be the class that most “slips through your fingers”. Other classes like the Ele and Mes have some of it too (and rightly so), but if anyone is escaping a fight, that should be a slippery Thief.

And I feel this is true thieves can disengage fights much more easily than us (actually we can’t disengage at all seeing as we have no speed buff unless we use a focus thereby forcing us into a weapon choice). So we should be slippery we should be able to open gaps if we get stunned. We aren’t meant to just stand there and let you pound on us stunned or not.

You can have your bug fixes and you should have them, but right now trying to balance out mesmer vs the other classes is more important than bug fixes for the mesmers alone, and that doesnt mean nerf their damage it can be something as small as a few tweaks. First we discuss who needs what changed, like how I believe the CD needs to be 25 second on retreat and leap or it gets changed to a non instant skill disabled during stun.

Every class could use one thing or another changed but this thread specifically is about those two skills, just like theres threads about backstab going around etc

IF those get extended to 25 seconds then the list of skills that a mesmer has for their weapons under 20 seconds goes even lower. And the sword is the only viable main hand weapon for a mesmer. And how is fixing bugs not as important as balancing vs other classes?! I guarantee that if ANET would stop with the nerf bat and put their effort into fixing bugs in ALL the classes then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

jportell.2197:

IF those get extended to 25 seconds then the list of skills that a mesmer has for their weapons under 20 seconds goes even lower. And the sword is the only viable main hand weapon for a mesmer. And how is fixing bugs not as important as balancing vs other classes?! I guarantee that if ANET would stop with the nerf bat and put their effort into fixing bugs in ALL the classes then we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

Fixing bugs wont buff the weaker classes/weapons, which is why that shouldnt be the priority

Then buff the weaker classes. They need it even if they continually nerf the mesmer the weaker classes still need buffed. But if you look at my philosophy on balance which is very naive but has good intentions BALANCE WITHIN CLASSES BEFORE BETWEEN CLASSES. And as stated by a dev mesmers are supposed to be slippery stunned or not. So this shouldn’t be an issue because it is working as intended. I still have been owned by warriors as have other mesmers. Yet I never once complain about the insane damage of 100b. If you look at the LONG LONG lists of threads in here and in other subforums you will notice a trend of Nerf this class nerf that class or nerf this build nerf that build. And very few threads with the title hey how do I deal with this class or this build? Does anyone have advice on what to do in situation XYZ. And you will find that the people that reply there are extremely helpful and nice. And the people that post for things needing a buff generally receive a better response. Which is why THIS thread is filled with negativity.

jportell.2197:

Then buff the weaker classes. They need it even if they continually nerf the mesmer the weaker classes still need buffed. But if you look at my philosophy on balance which is very naive but has good intentions BALANCE WITHIN CLASSES BEFORE BETWEEN CLASSES. And as stated by a dev mesmers are supposed to be slippery stunned or not. So this shouldn’t be an issue because it is working as intended. I still have been owned by warriors as have other mesmers. Yet I never once complain about the insane damage of 100b. If you look at the LONG LONG lists of threads in here and in other subforums you will notice a trend of Nerf this class nerf that class or nerf this build nerf that build. And very few threads with the title hey how do I deal with this class or this build? Does anyone have advice on what to do in situation XYZ. And you will find that the people that reply there are extremely helpful and nice. And the people that post for things needing a buff generally receive a better response. Which is why THIS thread is filled with negativity.

This thread was never about nerfing mesmers, it was about tweaking two skills. Who said it couldnt be made into a compromise that might actually end up in your favor? Like lets say increase the CD on retreat to 25 second and decrease distort to 45 seconds?

Something like that sounds kind of fair dont it? You would lose the ability to break skull cracks every time they rotated but youd gain the ability to distort more often during team fights.

Sounds fair am I right?

When traited distortion is available every 45 seconds… What else you got for me? And again increasing the CD on retreat would leave us with these cool downs on the staff
Auto Attack: No CD
Phase Retreat: 25 seconds
Phantasm Warlock: 18 seconds
Chaos Armor: 35 Seconds
Chaos Storm: 35 Seconds

Do you want to play on a weapon that has cooldowns this insanely long? ONLY one is under 20 seconds! Lets say the mesmer switches to staff uses all the skills in the 10 seconds then switches to the other set then by the time he switches back to the staff OVER HALF THE SKILLS WILL STILL BE ON CD! Would you use a weapon with a cooldown list like this!? We have already suffered a staff cooldown nerf. We don’t need another to make up for qqers. Aside from that PR is our only weapon skill that is a gap opener.

jportell.2197:

When traited distortion is available every 45 seconds… What else you got for me? And again increasing the CD on retreat would leave us with these cool downs on the staff
Auto Attack: No CD
Phase Retreat: 25 seconds
Phantasm Warlock: 18 seconds
Chaos Armor: 35 Seconds
Chaos Storm: 35 Seconds

Do you want to play on a weapon that has cooldowns this insanely long? ONLY one is under 20 seconds! Lets say the mesmer switches to staff uses all the skills in the 10 seconds then switches to the other set then by the time he switches back to the staff OVER HALF THE SKILLS WILL STILL BE ON CD! Would you use a weapon with a cooldown list like this!? We have already suffered a staff cooldown nerf. We don’t need another to make up for qqers. Aside from that PR is our only weapon skill that is a gap opener.

If thats the case than something can be done about making leap/retreat CDs longer and other skills shorter. Things can be tweaked and everyone can work together on it.

Tell me what you think is fair to get in return for a 25 second retreat?

Vision.3541:

jportell.2197:

When traited distortion is available every 45 seconds… What else you got for me? And again increasing the CD on retreat would leave us with these cool downs on the staff
Auto Attack: No CD
Phase Retreat: 25 seconds
Phantasm Warlock: 18 seconds
Chaos Armor: 35 Seconds
Chaos Storm: 35 Seconds

Do you want to play on a weapon that has cooldowns this insanely long? ONLY one is under 20 seconds! Lets say the mesmer switches to staff uses all the skills in the 10 seconds then switches to the other set then by the time he switches back to the staff OVER HALF THE SKILLS WILL STILL BE ON CD! Would you use a weapon with a cooldown list like this!? We have already suffered a staff cooldown nerf. We don’t need another to make up for qqers. Aside from that PR is our only weapon skill that is a gap opener.

If thats the case than something can be done about making leap/retreat CDs longer and other skills shorter. Things can be tweaked and everyone can work together on it.

Tell me what you think is fair to get in return for a 25 second retreat?

Nothing.. You cannot in anyway convince me that the phase retreat cooldown should be increased. The staff is already used primarily for this purpose in open world combat. Also just to note I don’t really PvP that much mainly dungeons and WvW the only reason I come here to fight threads like yours is because stuff like this affects my game play when I have nothing to do with it. Again a dev has already stated that we are supposed to be slippery not as slippery as thieves but you are asking for us to essentially be forced to stand in one place and not move so we can get beat on. Thus eliminating the challenge for both sides. Mesmers would die faster and people wouldn’t have to try and use their brains when fighting a mesmer which defeats the purpose. And the only other solution would be for arena net to look at the behavior for instant cast abilities but given the track record I can imagine they will only change the tool tips for say swap it would read “Swap places with clone immobilizing foe and breaking stun”
For phase retreat it would read
Teleport away from foe leaving a clone in your place Does not break stun but can be used during stun."

Nothing.. You cannot in anyway convince me that the phase retreat cooldown should be increased. The staff is already used primarily for this purpose in open world combat. Also just to note I don’t really PvP that much mainly dungeons and WvW the only reason I come here to fight threads like yours is because stuff like this affects my game play when I have nothing to do with it. Again a dev has already stated that we are supposed to be slippery not as slippery as thieves but you are asking for us to essentially be forced to stand in one place and not move so we can get beat on. Thus eliminating the challenge for both sides. Mesmers would die faster and people wouldn’t have to try and use their brains when fighting a mesmer which defeats the purpose. And the only other solution would be for arena net to look at the behavior for instant cast abilities but given the track record I can imagine they will only change the tool tips for say swap it would read “Swap places with clone immobilizing foe and breaking stun”
For phase retreat it would read
Teleport away from foe leaving a clone in your place Does not break stun but can be used during stun."But Just by looking at the notes on Wiki I can pretty much guarantee that they won’t touch it anyways because the notes read verbatim
Instant cast: You can use this while using other skills, or while immobilized..
So I imagine that applies to stun as well since stun description reads as: Stun is a powerful control effect which interrupts and completely disables the target. Disabling meaning immobilized so that means that while we can’t use other skills we can still use this to open some space even though it won’t completely break the stun.

^ No clue why that posted twice. hmmm…