Guild Wars 2

first of all please read all of changes i listed here before screaming

1. make f5 not work on elite

2. reduce moa cd to 90s or 120s depends ,reduce time wrap cd to 120s or 150s depends, add superspeed to MI

3. when moa form ends ,it will remove 3 conditions on whom gets moaed ,also add 1 stack of stability and resistance for 2 s duration .

4.make f5 reward better setup rather than spamming ,active f5 without illusion , mes gets 1s duration ,with one illusion 2s duration,two illusion 5s duration three illusion 10s duration

also another way to balance f5 :

make it not reset mes hp and position

but work like this : active f5 ,you get a period of time you can use any skills that will be saved
so when the duration ends ,you can press f5 again to reset any skills you used during that period . this ability also has a timer limitation .

tho i dont know if anet could do it .

sorry for bad english

You don’t know how most people trigger split for moa. I’m sorry but i can’t take your opinion seriously on the matter.

P.S: There’s no spamming involved and I’m perfectly capable of continumm split with 0.5 seconds of duration if used without clones. Even if they increase moa cast time.

Ravenmoon.5318:

You don’t know how most people trigger split for moa. I’m sorry but i can’t take your opinion seriously on the matter.

P.S: There’s no spamming involved and I’m perfectly capable of continumm split with 0.5 seconds of duration if used without clones. Even if they increase moa cast time.

you didnt even read first one of the changes ——make continumm split not work with elite .
forum lol

Problem is, shatters don’t care what utilities you have and/or use. So it’s highly unlikely they rework the split to reverse everything BUT the elite.

I’m pretty sure the system currently makes a snapshot of your character and when the split runs out the snapshot is going replacing your current player instance. This makes recognition of abilities kind of difficult. Unless they hardcode some kitten.

Hardcoding kitten is bad.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Problem is, shatters don’t care what utilities you have and/or use. So it’s highly unlikely they rework the split to reverse everything BUT the elite.

I’m pretty sure the system currently makes a snapshot of your character and when the split runs out the snapshot is going replacing your current player instance. This makes recognition of abilities kind of difficult. Unless they hardcode some kitten.

Hardcoding kitten is bad.

well second suggestion i do think its hard to do .

but how about first one .

a reasonable moa nerf would be:

moa cooldown reduced to 120s

moa duration reduced to 6s

moa gives you 5 stacks of stability for 3s

screech (skill 4) cleanses 5 conditions, weakness removed, casting time from 1.25 to 0.75s. castable while moving.

flee (skill 5) range reduced by a small amount.

Jekkt.6045:

a reasonable moa nerf would be:

moa cooldown reduced to 120s

moa duration reduced to 6s

moa gives you 5 stacks of stability for 3s

screech (skill 4) cleanses 5 conditions, weakness removed, casting time from 1.25 to 0.75s.

flee (skill 5) range reduced by a small amount.

I like all of these except for the 5 stacks of stability and the screech condition cleanse. I do like the condition cleanse for screech, but 5 is too much. 1-3 is reasonable. The stability is too much and too passive, but maybe making skill 3 a stun break instead would work. Moa should punish players who panic in it, but allow those who keep cool to have strong chance of surviving.

Jekkt.6045:

a reasonable moa nerf would be:

moa cooldown reduced to 120s

moa duration reduced to 6s

moa gives you 5 stacks of stability for 3s

screech (skill 4) cleanses 5 conditions, weakness removed, casting time from 1.25 to 0.75s. castable while moving.

flee (skill 5) range reduced by a small amount.

you meant same cd but far worse than engi one lol , yep thats reasonable nerf .
and 5 staack of stability lol

Simple fix: Moa should break when it reaches a certain incoming damage threshold.

When will people realise that CS needs to be nerfed before moa and then maybe nerf moa after seeing how it turns out. If you nerf moa without nerfing CS you will kill off normal mesmer while keeping chrono strong.

Normal mesmer is dead along with most of the other non-elite classes. People need to get over this and move on. The next expansion will only further solidify this. Anet clearly sees the elite specs and something that should be taken. It’s like running a build without an elite skill in GW1. You can do it, and in some isolated situations it might be a good choice, but generally it is not recommended and is inferior.

Id like to offer a fix, though it runs in a slightly different direction.

L2P

XD

Either:

(1) Make Csplit not work with elites; OR
(2) Reduce Moa duration and CD (say, 6s duration, 90s CD).

Either one of those options reduces the value of the moa + csplit combo. The heart of the problem is that Moa was originally balanced as a 180s CD skill. Csplit reduces the cost of Moa to a ~65s CD, while keeping the same benefit.

A 10s super-daze on 180s is balanced, and arguably underperforming if you’re not in a sustain meta.

A 10s super-daze on a ~65s CD is NOT balanced. It has more impact in both 1v1, skirmish, and teamfight scenarios than any other non-180s-CD elite in the game.

Option #1 keeps moa on a 180s CD cost, which removes the imbalance. Option #2 makes moa less effective with csplit (now 6s duration on ~65s CD), and makes moa slightly more effective for CORE power mesmer.

Letting moa’s jump would also add a tremendous amount of counterplay for better players who know the map.

Any other buffs to moa survivability — like free stability or condi cleanse — are wrong imo. If you reduce moa to 6s duration, then the moa can easily evade for half of that and LOS/kite for the other. And if you decouple moa from csplit, then you’re back to the old 180s CD moa which no one good ever complained about.

DaShi.1368:

Jekkt.6045:

a reasonable moa nerf would be:

moa cooldown reduced to 120s

moa duration reduced to 6s

moa gives you 5 stacks of stability for 3s

screech (skill 4) cleanses 5 conditions, weakness removed, casting time from 1.25 to 0.75s.

flee (skill 5) range reduced by a small amount.

I like all of these except for the 5 stacks of stability and the screech condition cleanse. I do like the condition cleanse for screech, but 5 is too much. 1-3 is reasonable. The stability is too much and too passive, but maybe making skill 3 a stun break instead would work. Moa should punish players who panic in it, but allow those who keep cool to have strong chance of surviving.

stunbreak would work too. it was basically stun resistance for hald the moa duration, not the full one. conditions amount could be 3, everything is better than nothing.

Moa duration reduced to 3 seconds. Using signet is insta-cast, breaks stun. If skill is interrupted, target is also stunned for 3 seconds. Reduce CD to 120 seconds.

Passive effect: change 20% incoming stun duration to 20% damage bonus to foes with confusion. #BringBackPowerShatter

Option 1 – Keep it the way it is… allow the use of utilities while transformed.

Option 2 – Reduce Moa duration – 6s

Option 3 – remove from game and add in a different elite.

Or change the whole mechanic and make the skill a “lock down” keep the duration to 10s, CDs reduced butttt the Moa cannot take/give damage , cannot stomp/revive just basically locks them out of play for 10s and then causes 10-20% dmg upon completion.

Moa just needs timer from 10s down to 8s.
Would also be nice if you could jump in Moa form.

As this point I seriously would be happy to see Anet delete moa and make portal an elite skill or F5 for base mesmer.

At least then the class balance can be looked at objectively, without judgement being clouded by two gimmicks.

Curunen.8729:

As this point I seriously would be happy to see Anet delete moa and make portal an elite skill or F5 for base mesmer.

At least then the class balance can be looked at objectively, without judgement being clouded by two gimmicks.

I would love to see portal be an f5 for core mesmer

Give moa 2k vitality boost ….. A fat chicken ^^.

Let’s not delude ourselves:

With or Without Double Moa, people still had problems with it

Single moa is a strong skill but it’s balanced. You have a high cooldown, and it’s quite possible to survive being moa’d once.

So my opinion is: leave Moa alone. The thing that needs to be fixed is that CS allows you to use your elite twice.

CS in general is overpowered, but the simple fix for double moa is by making it so CS does not influence elite skills (no cd reset).

musu.9205:

1. make f5 not work on elite

2. reduce moa cd to 120s

That’s basically all that needs to happen.

I propose one single change to chronomancer line: make it loose illusionary persona. We gain alacrity and skill reset and we loose one core ability as a trade-off. That way Mesmer needs to be more careful with the management of shatters and we make core tratlines valuable because gaining that ability in core-spec with 23 June patch is what made mesmers really valuable in the first place imo

Aza.2105:

Simple fix: Moa should break when it reaches a certain incoming damage threshold.

I like this. You’d want to moa someone off point and try and snare them long enough so they can’t contribute to a point.

Aza.2105:

Simple fix: Moa should break when it reaches a certain incoming damage threshold.

Ah, a Dungeons & Dragons solution.
Give the Moa its own health pool? When Moa’s health pool reaches zero, it reverts back to normal form. Any remaining damage from the “Moa-killing” attack carries over to affect the main health pool.

A double-edged sword, I suppose. All it would do is basically remove the profession’s effectiveness for the transform duration. Though I suppose you could remove the Moa’s ability to capture/contest a point (if it even exists), making it a net gain for the Mesmer.

CS doesn’t effect elites and leave moa as is.

Evaluate again to see if moa itself needs a nerf.

StickerHappy.8052:

Let’s not delude ourselves:

With or Without Double Moa, people still had problems with it

With or without moa, with or without CS, portal, stealth skills, shatters, GS, staff, sword 2, condi cleanse, no condi cleanse, etc etc etc, you name it, people still have always had a problem with Mesmer XD

StickerHappy.8052:

Let’s not delude ourselves:

With or Without Double Moa, people still had problems with it

True, but i have never seen so many moa complaints as now. And it is of course justified.

The only “fix” a moa needs is to allow it to jump, everything else is overkill and will send the ability “out of meta”.

I wouldn’t want to be in a place where mesmer can spam double gravity wells on a relatively low cooldown. Please Lord no…

If that catches you without a stunbreak you’re a goner. It will kill the nearby ele that is trying to heal you up too.

Azukas.1426:

CS doesn’t effect elites and leave moa as is.

Evaluate again to see if moa itself needs a nerf.

What I said. +1

what would happen if moa form is buffed?

Moa skill 5 gets a stunbreaker and superspeed added ?
Easy to remember for most… hit 5 when a bird ….

Have F5 not work on elites is fine with me. I can ussually handle myself even in moa form at least once. Unless out numbered then i prob wouldnt make it anyhow.

Ravenmoon.5318:

I’m pretty sure the system currently makes a snapshot of your character and when the split runs out the snapshot is going replacing your current player instance. This makes recognition of abilities kind of difficult. Unless they hardcode some kitten.

Hardcoding kitten is bad.

I highly doubt it’s hardcoded at least not on the “can’t be changed” level. Abilities are all done through scripting anyways, presuming that split’s functionality is hardcoded into the engine is silly.

Also if I where to guess at split’s implementation I would assume that split simply records the CD values of your abilities and your position and heath, and when it runs out it simply sets your CDs/health/position.

My programmer’s gut tells me that copying the player’s instance and then reverting would be a quick way to some crazy bugs. Although really I question if copying and reverting the player’s instance is even doable in a mmo.

Granted this is all speculation derived of guestimation.

A reasonable solution would be to stop trying to get the Chronomancer nerfed.

Zelda.6325:

DaShi.1368:

Normal mesmer is dead along with most of the other non-elite classes. People need to get over this and move on. The next expansion will only further solidify this. Anet clearly sees the elite specs and something that should be taken. It’s like running a build without an elite skill in GW1. You can do it, and in some isolated situations it might be a good choice, but generally it is not recommended and is inferior.

P.s. what you said is not necessarily true at all: nos is thinking of running normal necro over reaper due to the massive nerfs afaik. It’s not impossible.

nos will use reaper. There’s still no reason not to. Reaper shroud is too good to pass up in any necro build. Elites are meant to be a key part of builds. The problem now is that there is just one elite per class. Once we have more, there will be the greater build diversity that people want.

The “I win” button needs to go! When you get Moa’d 4 times in a match, it’s getting to be too freak’n much. And, let’s not just put this on Mesmer’s as it’s directed at Engi’s too.

DeWolfe.2174:

The “I win” button needs to go! When you get Moa’d 4 times in a match, it’s getting to be too freak’n much. And, let’s not just put this on Mesmer’s as it’s directed at Engi’s too.

When a match can be up to 15 minutes and possibly more than one Mesmer in the opposing team.

-posting in both threads

Signet of Humility will NOT reset if it lands during CS – Reduced cooldown to 120
(must actually polymorph the target, blocking the skill will allow it to be reset)

Option 1 and 3 are terrible. 1 for the most part being that “Moa” is the only culprit and subject to pvp based balance issues.

Zelda.6325:

StickerHappy.8052:

Let’s not delude ourselves:

With or Without Double Moa, people still had problems with it

True, but i have never seen so many moa complaints as now. And it is of course justified.

You’ve seen more Moa complaints over the last season because more people have been abusing Necro to farm the leagues and have noticed the only thing that stops them DSing and pushing 4 to wipe teams is being Moa’d – hence the QQ.

I don’t think people realize that Moa can be blocked and dodged. They just lose to a player who knows how to counter them, and they freak out. The number of times I’ve tried to Moa someone and it simply does nothing is silly. It seems like you need line of sight sometimes for it to work as well. Countering mesmers really doesn’t take a genius.

Make moa a projectile. Would love to see some reflect moas going out.

Learn. To. Dodge. Omg. 3 years and you can’t see an inc moa cast. seriously.

VaaCrow.3076:

Learn. To. Dodge. Omg. 3 years and you can’t see an inc moa cast. seriously.

You’re that rare person who has never been moa’d. I mean ever.

Pyriall.1683:

VaaCrow.3076:

Learn. To. Dodge. Omg. 3 years and you can’t see an inc moa cast. seriously.

You’re that rare person who has never been moa’d. I mean ever.

He’s the rare person who learns about skills, casting animations, and how to play around it rather than coming to the forums shouting nerfs. Just to clarify, I haven’t read his post history so he could have.

phokus.8934:

Pyriall.1683:

VaaCrow.3076:

Learn. To. Dodge. Omg. 3 years and you can’t see an inc moa cast. seriously.

You’re that rare person who has never been moa’d. I mean ever.

He’s the rare person who learns about skills, casting animations, and how to play around it rather than coming to the forums shouting nerfs. Just to clarify, I haven’t read his post history so he could have.

Sure i get moad, but it’s when I am not paying attention, or fail to dodge/block/evade in some way, i’m not saying its possible to dodge 100% of the time, but knowing the animations of other classes skills, and having situational awareness are key components to pvp in gw2. It’s nobodys fault but your own if you lack them, or are unwilling to learn them and instead come to these forums to whine.

phokus.8934:

Pyriall.1683:

VaaCrow.3076:

Learn. To. Dodge. Omg. 3 years and you can’t see an inc moa cast. seriously.

You’re that rare person who has never been moa’d. I mean ever.

He’s the rare person who learns about skills, casting animations, and how to play around it rather than coming to the forums shouting nerfs. Just to clarify, I haven’t read his post history so he could have.

If you don’t think people know how to dodge, then you have another think coming. Of course people know how to dodge, that’s not the point. It’s the exact same situation as gunflame and DH traps. Everyone is saying…“dodge dodge”, then you watch these same players get blown up by the skill.

Can you dodge? Yes. Can you get a good idea of when moa is going to be cast? Yes. That’s not the point.

I don’t think you understood my post as it was more satire than anything else. Of course I was agreeing…

phokus.8934:

I don’t think you understood my post as it was more satire than anything else. Of course I was agreeing…

it was directed at pyriall, sorry if I didn’t make that clear