Guild Wars 2

I sort of feel the same Jayne, I’ve gone looking before as well and I’m very meticulous about that sort of thing. I don’t like jumping to “it’s teh bug!” like conclusions but it’s often very strange when we know there is a queue and there is literally 20 of us to be found on the map.

Of course, as one person I can’t cover the entire map in a fast enough space of time to know for sure, every time I’ve checked I’ve found all the skill point or jumping areas totally empty.

Not in any way calling foul or claiming we’re losing because of this reason, I’m a scientist so I’d be the first to admit it could very easily be a perception issue!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Question-regarding-full-wvw-maps/first#post1340434

this here might be worth looking into.

basically whats happening is when someone logs out of WvW to the character screen they still show to be in WvW according to guild/friends list. So it is entirely possible that the game is thinking they are still in the WvW map.

How is it possible to have a such response from an Arena staff members ?
What about the bugged queue ? The number of players by map ? Definitly not 166 ..
And about the drastic decrease in WvW players per maps observed since the last patch ?

Everything is fine for Arena ? Are you sure ??! Is it normal to wait 2 hours to enter in a WvW map that contains only 50/60 players ?

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

I bet the JP’s are full because there is no siege allowed in there anymore. Please remove the JP’s from WvW.

Ruprect.7260:

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

I bet the JP’s are full because there is no siege allowed in there anymore. Please remove the JP’s from WvW.

We can’t even access the JP this week, we don’t have our keep 80% of the time remember =(

Kranky.8231:

There is no doubt in my mind there is a serious flaw. Sometimes after queing to get into EB I enter to find a map seemingly devoid of a full population. When I’ve checked the jump puzzle there might be a few in there but nothing to match the disparity of waiting to get in and the lack of players actually on the map.

There really is a problem here.

Unless you got to the end of the JP you can’t know for sure. I have gone through the whole thing and never see another player, I get to the last part of the JP and the end platform and there is like 30 ppl just screwing around up there.

Someone should do a “Press 1 in Map chat if you are in this BL” when there is a que and just see how many respondants. I know not everyone will respond but it may give a better idea of how many are actually in there.

I know we had a queue in SoR BL last night and it certainly did not seem like there were 133 ppl in there. At most I would guess 50.

There is something wrong with map queues, its happening everywhere, and also in lower tiers. Anet will surely look into it, there are some topics about it around now. Lets just wait and see what happens.

I am not tarnished coast but the comments on departed players remaining in game is something I have experienced a lot. My brother always logs off earlier then me in the evening and the blue dot for his location persists in the spawn point the rest of the night.

I tried to get into TC BL again last night and got a que again. So, I decided to continue on with map completion on my guardian. 45 minutes later, I was still in que. So, I decided to get some real life work done and went to Lion’s Arch to bank and log off. In Lion’s, someone pointed out that they just left TC BL and there was maybe 20 folks, with about 10 standing around that anyone could find.

After reading other forum threads/posts, I am starting to wonder. I generally only play in TC BL with the occasional foray into EB. Yet, the past 4 nights when trying to get in, there has been a que. The first night was only 10 minutes and I got in. The others, I gave up at about 30 minutes twice and the 45ish last night.

So, it still doesn’t make sense that there are que times when people in the map/forum are saying the BL is mostly empty during those times.

For me, it’s 6-9pm central US time.

Majik.8521:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Question-regarding-full-wvw-maps/first#post1340434

This here might be worth looking into.

Basically what’s happening is when someone logs out of WvW to the character screen they still show to be in WvW according to guild/friends list. So it is entirely possible that the game is thinking they are still in the WvW map.

Quoting this here again for the bump. Something is way too weird when you know for certain that somebody has logged out of the game but their dot still shows on the WvW map. It would be a total shame if this turns out to be an issue, though, since it would have been trivial for Anet to have caught it if they were really investigating anything.

Cactus.2710:

Majik.8521:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Question-regarding-full-wvw-maps/first#post1340434

This here might be worth looking into.

Basically what’s happening is when someone logs out of WvW to the character screen they still show to be in WvW according to guild/friends list. So it is entirely possible that the game is thinking they are still in the WvW map.

Quoting this here again for the bump. Something is way too weird when you know for certain that somebody has logged out of the game but their dot still shows on the WvW map. It would be a total shame if this turns out to be an issue, though, since it would have been trivial for Anet to have caught it if they were really investigating anything.

If this is the case and ppl are not actually getting logged out, I forsee a lot of RAAAGGEE!

Can you imagine how much this could have changed to outcome of so many matches. Say one of the servers never had anyone log out so they have a full map of 133 and the other servers have a lot log and are still considered in the BL so they are able to only get about 30-40 ppl on the map with a queue.

I am willing to bet that this may just magically stop happening without any word from Anet.

We may be onto something here…

Habib said "During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. "

So, if I log out in WvW, perhaps the system hasn’t been able to transfer me out of WvW, thus “locking” up my spot. The spot might stay locked until I log back in, when the system can finally transfer me to Lions Arch. All I can say, and it seems like many others posting here agree, is that the population I see on reset night with a 10 minute queue is much larger that the population I see later in the week with the same 10 minute queue. It would be great if Anet could look into this as a possible reason.

Let’s run a test on TCBL tonight. Get everyone responding in map chat and some observers in JP and other locations where people might be AFK or have chat turned off. I have definitely thought that it was odd to be queued for quite some time and then find the population either extremely spread out or under 130ish.

Hey SoR guy here, I can tell you there are a lot of your people standing around in the JP and camping traps, as well as camping the skill points and other out-of-the-way spots. Idk if it’s enough to warrant that long of queues and it sucks you gotta deal with that sorry We have queues on most of ours too throughout the day, only later at night are they freed up. I wish I had a solution for you, but I don’t :/ people are gonna do what they want to do I suppose. Trust me I’d rather have constant fights than walking around double checking siege constantly because there’s nothing else to do.

maybe the queue problem is a side-effect of people not being deregistered from wvw maps properly.

The issue, if there is indeed an issue (I believe there is), was apparently introduced or exacerbated with Monday’s update.

From my vantage, Monday night, Tuesday night and Wednesday night all had the same dynamic:
- Log in at around the same time (tail end of NA prime time).
- Queue for TCBL. There is a wait. 10-20 minutes.
- Get in, go to where the action is. Due to the nature of this week’s match-up, there’s only been one place where said action’s been at any given time.
- Discover around 20 participants engaged in said action. Always around 20.

To say that this is anomalous would be an understatement. In particular, the rough uniformity of the number is truly bizarre. Why not 30? Why not 40? Where’s the typical fluctuation?

In the wee hours of the morning, well past peak, we were defending a tower on the BL. The number of participants? … Around 20.

As someone who’s played within the contrast of peak hours vs. off hours for months, I can say that I’ve never seen off hours participation match peak hours participation… until Monday.

My server is an NA-focused server. No matter how many distractions or angles you throw into it, shouldn’t a 11PM EST presence with a queue always be bigger than a 6AM EST presence without one?

Thursday at 1pm central and I have a que in tcbl. That seems pretty strange to me I’ve never had a que at this time before. Maybe there is something to this afterall.

It does seem like something is up tbh, today someone from my party logged off and his dot remained for an hour +

I had never really noticed before so I don’t know if it was something before Monday’s update or not (I usually reform party or ask if they can leave party before logging off).

This should be investigated ASAP imo as this can possibly affect a match up. Either way I will be telling my guild to log off in a PvE area before heading out.

I remember about a month ago being in a small strike group with guildies and one person logged off while still in the party and his dot stayed on the mini map for hours near speldan camp in EB. I didn’t think anything of it, but it could be affecting que’s if the game believes he is still in WvW per dot on map.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

Players arent stupid, people that have played wPvP since release can notice 2 things:

Queues are much longer;
Maps are much lighter in player numbers then before.

Habib Loew.6239:

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

Sorry, but this is simply not true.

There were NO WHERE near 100 people in WWW when there was a queue. Not on TCBL, not on all maps together.

I understand that you check your numbers and say ‘’business as usual’‘, but it’s simply not correct. The numbers that you see, do NOT, in any way, correspond to the actual players in WWW.

.

Also, on a totally different subject: there have been several Anet posts about this, but none of you ever said the actual number of that queue. Is there a reason why it is a secret?

Before we go into discussing about the “queues”, I think we should focus on the main problem people are trying to say. Let me see if I can get this right…

Some people believe that the number of actual players in the map are different than the number that the server believes are on. The difference is claimed to be the result of incorrectly counting players that have left the map already. Here’s an example based off arbitrary numbers: the server might think there are 100 TC players in the map, but in reality there are only 50 TC players.

This would be a pretty bad issue if that were true.

On the other hand if somehow the map were to allow only 30-40 people per server, then you will see the queue too but the game would still be “balanced”.

I cant speak for TC, but last night on Anvil Rock I had a problem. Now keep in mind this is a tier 6 server in the middle of the week. Go to log into EB and bam queue. Me and th GF wait for like 20 mins. Im thinking sweet middle of the week and we are full. We are probably rocking it in there.

Finally get in and what do I see, we only have our section of eb and the only active fighting marked on the map anywhere is at Durios. I say sweet! Huge zerg fightat durios and run to get there. I find 20-40 enemies swarming around outside and like 10 or us inside. Now I had just run through our keep and the middle of our land and maybe saw like 10 other people.

Now with no real hard fast number on how many can be on a map since it is super secret, even if I double what I saw that puts us at 40 people on the map and i waited in the queue for 20 mins.

Something is wrong. Id imagine they know something is wrong. Or they are really messing with the numbers to see what they can make work with culling and how bad it gets. There really is no other reason I can see why they wouldnt tell you how many can actually be on a map at once.

loopi.7913:

I don’t know how its happening but I have to agree with this. Yesterday there was a 5 minute queue on TCBL when I was switching alts. As I logged back in the commander was asking everyone to come to the citadel WP. After what seemed forever waiting and calling all TC’ers there was approx 20 people there and a handful doing their own thing elsewhere. We had no towers or camps… sor had them all. Yet with only the handful of us there, there was still a 5 minute queue… I dont know but something isint right.

Little bit explained here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Queues-for-WvW-The-Official-Thread

Not sure, but from what I understand the queue is not exactly a line, more like we are all stuffed animals in a claw machine and the hand just reaches down and grabs one of us. (so pretty much the cooler looking toys get picked first) =P
Ya best explanation I have since people constantly get the pop in random order.

This sounds to me like it probably has to do with players switching maps a lot, and the system not expiring them correctly or fast enough. This matchup has people switching maps quite a bit, as we get completely blown out of one map, and everyone moves to another.

dmbucs.1367:

I remember about a month ago being in a small strike group with guildies and one person logged off while still in the party and his dot stayed on the mini map for hours near speldan camp in EB. I didn’t think anything of it, but it could be affecting que’s if the game believes he is still in WvW per dot on map.

This is quite possible although it does happen on all servers. It seems to always happen when a person in group doesn’t leave group before logging out.

I remember once on a BL, guildmate was coming back into the game after having left while in group. I was on the Storm Temple island and saw his character model standing there at which point I charged two mesmers thinking he would have my back. I managed to kill them, but was surprised that he did not aid me. When I asked him over TS, he said that he had just entered the BL and was in the loading screen. He also said that the Storm Temple was the place he had logged off at.

In short, the game remembered where he logged off and even showed his character model until he spawned at the main base. It wouldnt be farfetched to think that the game still considered him to be in WvW.

Just a tip some of on SoR do:

We Queue for WvW in low pop zones/mists. Not LA or Orr.
Those tend to lead to higher Queue times, and if you map hop while Queue’d sometimes it bugs out the Queue. (Or at least thats what we suspect, since it seems to happen tons to a lot of us.)

yea, we are good at gathering our pugs together, except for maybe 10-15 that are running around doing their stuff but as we nearly ever have more then 60 people, that doesnt even show 80 people out of the 100-133-166 people that arae supposed to be there… but maybe we arent missing any, maybe the max is 90? since they wont tell us this will be a bug or a show that PvE NEEDS TO GET THE kitten OUT OF WvW!!!

I be stickin’ wit we be RPin ninjas..

However, I too have witnessed party members who are no longer online still “appear” online with the dot. Almost seems it’s not kicking them out effectively after exiting to desktop (or even crashing).

Please Anet, stop telling us it looks just fine. It doesn’t, since the patch, every single WvWer i know in game have noticed the same thing : longer queues and empty maps. There is something up.

Ruprect.7260:

Someone should do a “Press 1 in Map chat if you are in this BL” when there is a que and just see how many respondants. I know not everyone will respond but it may give a better idea of how many are actually in there.

I know we had a queue in SoR BL last night and it certainly did not seem like there were 133 ppl in there. At most I would guess 50.

…and you’d get people responding with ‘well, what do I press if I’m in a different one?’ ;P

I propose we run our own testing on our tier. I propose all the guilds put a message in the MOTD to remind everyone playing wvw to teleport to heart of the mists and log out there or in a pve zone if they prefer, for those not in guilds we all can place reminders in map chat every hour this weekend to get the word out for this test. Just be sure not to log out in wvw. It would be nice if we had a way to boot peeps from group that log out instead of having to reform groups….hint hint Anet as I know you guys read these forums. Until we do have a way to boot from group those that log we need to remind people to leave group before logging out. I am curious to see if our prolonged que times will be decreased. I have myself also noted borderlands with ques and there is no more than 50 at the most there. Most of the time it is around 30. I personally think if Anet made changes to the population allowed then we should have been informed of this.

Dear Tarnished Coast,

you guys rock! I miss you, my server misses you, so many people on Yaks Bend server mumble talk about how they miss TC and the fun they brought to wvwvw!! You guys are relentless fighters. Just wish we could match up with u again!! maybe one day lol.

Anyways good luck in the new week, hope you stomp lots of peeps!

Much love, Yaks Bend Mesmer of the century

Hope this gets fixed before tonight. Otherwise I would hope the “official” reset match is pushed off a week or so until it is fixed. Can’t get an accurate rating reading if we don’t have an accurate body count on map. This isn’t just for TC, but a lot of servers experiencing this.

Remember when you had to que up to get in to the frontier or Thid for DAOC? Yeah I don’t either…. Crazy to think that a game over a decade old could handle RvR so much better than GW2.

If the server is wrong about who’s actually logged in playing, his numbers would look normal. They have to actually test and let us know either way, because the client they gave us is saying something is wrong and that’s all we know.

Tallis.5607:

Habib Loew.6239:

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

Sorry, but this is simply not true.

There were NO WHERE near 100 people in WWW when there was a queue. Not on TCBL, not on all maps together.

I understand that you check your numbers and say ‘’business as usual’‘, but it’s simply not correct. The numbers that you see, do NOT, in any way, correspond to the actual players in WWW.

.

Also, on a totally different subject: there have been several Anet posts about this, but none of you ever said the actual number of that queue. Is there a reason why it is a secret?

Holdyir.2918:

Remember when you had to que up to get in to the frontier or Thid for DAOC? Yeah I don’t either…. Crazy to think that a game over a decade old could handle RvR so much better than GW2.

Rose tinted goggles. The lag was absolutely abysmal, too.

I would ask that more database queries be done using some different qualifiers other then the ones you are using. If the data you are querying is bad, your results will be bad.

I think there is enough circumstantial evidence on the forums to indicate something is definitely off. Queues on a server during the week that has 120 point tick and where the population is obviously less then normal?

Other threads are starting to comment on this also.

I agree I think ANet have not got sufficient monitoring or its inaccurate. There is not way I should be queueing for 2 hours on YB

I also think this is related to the log out bug.

When someone logs out in WvW but does not leave party, it considers them still inside WvW.

This could be related to some regression in the “when you alt-F4, you die” feature?

who knows.

I don’t think every server is imagining it. We know how many people are in our maps from the map chatter, which guilds are logged in, and what points we are capping / holding. We check the jumping puzzles, it is not becuase the lands are genuinely full, there is a problem with queues.

We’re a few hours into reset and our numbers in EB started dropping yet my guild, TV, still has members waiting over an hour and a half to get in. I checked the jump puzzle and there were 2 players in it. I asked everyone on the server to press “1” to do a head count and about 35 responded (of course not everyone did press “1” who was on but I think the majority did). I think TC has a lot more casual gamers than some of the hard core wvw servers, so we get more players coming in and out of wvw.

We think (but don’t know for sure) that when players quit the game and don’t go back to a pve map that they are counted as still being in wvw. Whatever the problem is it is making the game not fun and turning players away.

There is a serious flaw here somewhere and it needs to be fixed.

It’s certainly hard to deny something is up with the system.

Whether players that log off in WvW are still counted, or maybe there’s a much bigger delay between someone leaving WvW or switching maps and the queue system getting that message.

If 50 people log off but for whatever reason it’s not registered for a lot longer than it’s supposed to, then by the time 50 more are let in to replace them, 50 others could have left leaving you with a small amount of people and just a slow trickle coming back in.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

As countless people from numerous servers have been telling you, there’s obviously something you’re missing. Even without considering the queue with very few players, there are still a lot of problems with the queue. Would you like to address all of the other problems? Perhaps do more than just a quick database query when people have been complaining about this for six months?

If they created a /who command, you know like every other kitten game in the world, then players could help verify if there is an issue or not.

We’ve had the same problem on Yaks, a queue to get in, we have nothing except a supply camp and 1 keep, no swords and the commanders screaming for everyone to get to the keep and there’s a whopping 12 of us on the map apparently.

Habib Loew.6239:

Hi all,

Queues are per map, per team – so there is a queue for TC players on the Eternal Battlegrounds and a different queue for TC players on each Borderlands, and a different queue for each of the other teams on each of the maps.

During the time it takes for players to change maps it is possible for there to be a queue even if there are less players in a map than the maximum capacity because the players taking up those empty slots are still “in flight” between maps. It’s also possible for a slot to take a while to fill if e.g. people see the queue pop, wait until the progress bar for the automatic transfer is almost empty, and then choose to renter the queue. At that point the system will move on and look for other players to fill that slot but all of that takes a bit of time. We’ve watched the queue numbers a lot and generally it’s only a few slots that are in this reserved state at any time.

Just to be sure I ran a quick database query for the last few days and all the queue numbers look quite reasonable.

So I don’t know where in the map those players are when you’re looking for them, but they’re definitely in there somewhere!

I believe the data you seeing is incorrect. The players are not hiding some place in the map. We (the players playing on the map) checked. We check the spawn the jumping puzzle etc. Those players are not there. Something is wrong, be it in the que system or the log out system or the way the program see’s the number of people.

It is not an organization issue. At the start of the match up we are very organized and can hold our own. As the hours go on the numbers dwindle to nothing. We are still doing the same things we did at the start, communicating have scouts out etc. Slowly we are just out manned as people log out for the night.

As that happens we have guild mates in ventrilo who cannot enter into the WvW map.
Going from having our 1/3rd completely covered and protected to having less than 35 players to cover the entire map is crazy.

TC is not as organized as other servers I agree, but we are not incompetent either. Many players/servers are saying the exact same thing we are. Something game breaking is very wrong with the WvW system.

i keep getting disconnected, will this occupy a wvw slot? i see everyone runs towards a certain direction and hit the wall and im disconnected

TCBL seemed to have the same problem last night as well. We had 2 teams on the map for the most part, a total of about 25-30 ppl and there were still queues. I don’t know what is going on but it needs to be fixed now. We had maybe a total of 40 ppl on the map this is including ppl guarding towers/keeps.

The night started off with maybe a full map, which still did not seem like 166 ppl. By 1am CST when I logged there were maybe 40 ppl and there were still people in my guild in the queue. So the server that did not have anyone log off would have had a lot more ppl on the map than the server that started to lose people early, that makes for a very lopsided map and very broken ranking. Not to mention the culling last night was worse that I had ever seen it. I never saw char models like last week, there were numerous times I was laying there dead and did not see an enemy until 3-5 seconds after I died, then suddenly 50+ enemies appear. This also needs to be fixed, it is game breaking. I have a high end machine, this is a server side issue. Anytime a map has a queue some one do a count in map chat and keep a record, I will do it if no one else wants to.

Like Kranky said above, even if only half the map responded to the head count, that means there are only 70 ppl in the map? Where are the other 100?

So I have to ask as dumb as this sounds but kinda fits in what others are thinking. When I look at guild roster I can see players not logged in but says theyre in WvW.. I know this is just where they logged out but, does Anet also view them as being in WvW even tho they are not logged in at least for extended period of time? This would make complete sense of what Im seeing. When I am sitting in queu for 3 hrs unable to get in but others that are in are not seeing any large numbers anywhere on the map (including jp). If Anet is seeing players who log out while in WvW as still being in WvW for however knows long.. when they did their count it would appear to them still it was pretty equal in their system but obviously its not? I dunno I love love love this game but I am def seeing something is going on here.