Guild Wars 2

Serophous.9085:

Thrumdi.9216:

thiagoperne.7340:

Thrumdi.9216:

timidobserver.7925:

Aaron.4807:

DevonCarver.5370:

I’d like to shed some light on our thinking with this AC change as well as tell you all what we are doing right now to balance it.

Firstly, when siege weapons were originally creatped, they had the intent of being really good at some things and not so good at others. The arrow cart is intended to be the anti-personal siege weapon. It is intended that arrow carts are all about controlling an area through damage. If you remain in the area that is being hit by the arrow cart, you will die. You can however, move out of the space and/or find a new way to attack the intended target. That being said, they are not intended to be so good against other siege weapons and we are in the process of addressing that right now. We are also addressing their range when upgraded to be more in line with the range of ballistas.

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

Finally, the feedback you all provide is a very useful part of this whole process. WvW is a living, breathing game type and any changes we make have numerous consequences that don’t become fully visible until everyone starts interacting with them and devising new strategies. Our goal is to provide a complex combat space that rewards skill, tactics, and ingenuity and while we haven’t fully achieved that goal yet, I like to think we are getting there.

In the coming months, meanwhile you most of your most noteworthy wvw guilds will be looking for a new game to play.

Anet has kittening lost their mind.

There aren’t a lot of games that came bring what WvW brings to the table for pvp oriented guilds. Even if they continue to break it by doing other stupid stuff like turning arrowcarts into godcarts.

That is about to change. Elder Scrolls Online is launching sometime this year, and is on the radar of most PvP guilds, big and small. By all accounts, WvW is its major endgame.

Before culling was fixed, our guild was talking about ESO a lot. But with no culling, we were back to having good times in GW2. The arrow cart buff is pushing us back into the “no-fun” zone and we are following the ESO news again.

ESO is still an unknown quantity, but it does have the potential to be a serious challenger.

(And there is also Planetside 2 out there, which is a 3 faction MMOFPS. Its audience does overlap with some GW2 PvP guilds).

Are you seriously considering to even compare ESO to GW2? Oh man!

I think GW2 will be far better than ESO in most aspects (except perhaps the storyline).

However, the WvW is such a major focus of ESO that it could turn out to have more to offer in terms of gameplay. They will, for example, have unique WvW character advancement at launch, and the map is by all accounts huge and well-designed. And in the end gameplay is the major decider for PvP guilds and players.

GW2 has probably 6 months to polish WvW and get it right. The improvements Anet have made since launch in balance and removing culling have been really great, in my opinion. I just hope they devote the resources it needs going forward.

gee, i hope ESO doesnt have anything like…seige or something….

oh wait…

LMAO that reminds me of Rush Limbaugh (gee why the hell is he stuck in my head so much this fine sunny Sunday morning?) saying that if “Obamacare” passed, he would move to Costa Rica…which has universal, socialized health care.

This is the same; “GW2 is the fail, I r moving to ESO cuz they dun have stooped castles and siege and…”.

Priceless I sez.

DevonCarver.5370:

To be a little clearer. The fixes to arrow carts will be coming quickly. We are already putting those in and testing them. Those should bring them more in line with what we expect them to be.

Devon, thanks for the response.

Though honestly, to me it doesn’t seem like you guys do all that much ‘testing’ before you release stuff into live. I mean, with the Skill Lock issue(which has been around for a while), the OP Arrow carts, and the new Rubberbanding Effect (where i.e. in WvW where one falls, but may not receive the damage until one starts running, and may even repeat 1-2 times more the falling action) that started after April’s end of month big update. Well. stuff like this is starting to kill the experience of the game for me. I certainly hope you guys get some hotfixes for this stuff soon….

thiagoperne.7340:

Devon and the others have allready said that they are looking into this, we are still waiting to see what happens next.

I think what Devon meant to say is “L2P with the new changes”. And the only issues with AC’s is the damage they are doing to sieges and the range, nothing else. And Im so indeed.

Really? So, Devon wants pvp taken out of wvw in favor of who can put up the first arrow cart? Because that is what wvw is turning into.

Last night we took bay easily with a pretty small force, (Saturdays are always slow but people are seriously tired of how wvw is right now), because when we started there was no enemy force on the map, which is pretty much the only way to take a fortified keep now, you have to wait until the enemy gets bored and logs out. All we did was build tons of arrow carts in the lords room. Then BG built some when they got into inner and then it was all about who could arrow cart the enemies arrow cart first. There was NO FIGHTING. I had an arrow cart for a while but I had been on it for so long I was afraid to lose my bags, so I got off of it to pick them up and someone promptly jumped on… People were fighting over arrow carts! And BG had no chance to even get near us. Tier 1 WvW, arrow versus arrow.

If anyone thinks this is a step in the right direction then they have no clue about world versus world at all.

DevonCarver.5370:

… this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. …

I like this idea, it’s how I think the game should work. But you’re going to have a hard time making ballistas useful against arrow carts when …

• arrow carts don’t require line of sight, and …
• the only places high enough to get line of sight on the arrow carts are so close that they’re within arrow cart range.

Beef them up a bit and the obvious solution will be using catapults so that you can use a weapon that doesn’t require LoS to take out the weapon that doesn’t require LoS. But that won’t work, either, as long as …

• catapults are very effective against catapults that are still under construction, and …
• catapults benefit from height advantage, so one that’s on a wall or in a tower has range advantage over one in the field, and …
• spotters up in a tower can call shots for a catapult inside the tower, because they can see the one in the field, but the one in the field can only guess as to where the catapult inside the tower is.

There may be a solution to this, but I admit I’m not creative enough to see it. The most likely end result is probably still going to be that the defenders can set up a couple of arrow carts, and one catapult, so that even if someone treb’s the wall down from a long, long way away nobody can get in without taking out the arrow carts, and any siege capable of finding and hitting the arrow carts can be taken out from within the tower by a single catapult.

We have taken plenty of keeps, just not defended ones. It’s all about rushing an undefended keep with such a massive zone blob that the defenders don’t have time to respond. If so much as 10 defenders manages to get inside with a few superior carts, you may as well just abandon the whole thing.
The amount of supplies needed to construct all the siege you need to take a keep prevents the zone from splitting up and hitting multiple objectives at once. The defenders have such an advantage that they can easily split their force and defend all 3 keeps at once.

This is so dumb it’s unreal…

So much for “quick”.

Does ANet realize – there is soooo many places within keeps that arrow carts are untouchable?

Well I may be the outside man here, but I like the change; damaging siege with the AC we could do without though. The damage is quite high, but you are given red circles to get out of the way of and logically I would expect to die if a fully loaded arrow cart were to let go within my vicinity. Yes, a few arrow carts can decimate a zerg both large and small, but the only problem I see with them is that there is currently no counter to them.

If for instance you were to make the other siege immune to arrow cart damage (like wood is gonna feel arrow pain – right) but not the operator then setting up a catapult as a counter to the arrow carts becomes a real possibility. IMO these things are suppose to HURT and if you’re foolish enough to stand in the way of one, expect to die.

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

I too long for realism when roleplaying a romance between my moogle and a talking cat.

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Really? So you’re saying that getting hit by a greatsword should heal you could be a “valid step” toward realism? Geez, I wonder why people want arrow carts to fire projectiles not just an AoE. Or maybe how arrow carts shouldn’t damage flame rams so much as large wooden logs don’t realistically get hurt by arrows.

Siege bunker
rank 6: gain immunity against siege damage for 3seconds (cd: 60s)

Jackie.1829:

Paxus.6543:

Snip cause my post is too long with yours.

P.S. I extend an offer to any developer working on wvw willing to do so, to come run with our guild one night on EU, to see the game and how we play it from our perspective. I genuinely believe that devon’s approach of wvw is so disconnected from how WvW is played because at best all I see is developer’s running in pug zergs than I remember steam rolling back when I played against SoR on NA. When the developers balance Spvp, they ask the good players and play with the good players. When I played GW1 the devs there did the same and I have played with Isiah before and discussed the game based on what he saw playing with us. But the current dev approach to wvw is so casual and there is no hands on experience of how wvw should be played aside from some ideology that they have in their heads which is flawed.

Much better explanation and much better way to get your point across. This last part I sadly tend to agree with. Test servers and player feedback is very important granted it does not become just catering to those that QQ the most. Not referring to this particular topic but I have seen that happen in other games.

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Really? So you’re saying that getting hit by a greatsword should heal you could be a “valid step” toward realism? Geez, I wonder why people want arrow carts to fire projectiles not just an AoE. Or maybe how arrow carts shouldn’t damage flame rams so much as large wooden logs don’t realistically get hurt by arrows.

You might wanna look up guardian mace skills.
In all honesty, I don’t care at all about realism as long as it fits the game. I want a good and balanced competative game, not reality.
Chess does not reflect reality in anyway, but is entertaining (for some) because its an extremely balanced game with different strategies and methods of approach. Now what if you introduced a “tank” pice that could just whipe the board clean. Would that be fun?

Mizu.9387:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Mizu.9387:

The problem with the “realism” argument is that everyone that is hit by my greatsword should expect to instantly die as well.

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

But it also doesn’t say what step toward realism is more valid than another. So basically you still have nothing. Realism has no place in this argument whatsoever.

Really? So you’re saying that getting hit by a greatsword should heal you could be a “valid step” toward realism? Geez, I wonder why people want arrow carts to fire projectiles not just an AoE. Or maybe how arrow carts shouldn’t damage flame rams so much as large wooden logs don’t realistically get hurt by arrows.

You might wanna look up guardian mace skills.
In all honesty, I don’t care at all about realism as long as it fits the game. I want a good and balanced competative game, not reality.
Chess does not reflect reality in anyway, but is entertaining (for some) because its an extremely balanced game with different strategies and methods of approach. Now what if you introduced a “tank” pice that could just whipe the board clean. Would that be fun?

Which is why I said:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

I haven’t made any statements about balance, or anything else that realism can affect in this game. All I said to begin this discussion was:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

That’s all I said. This was a response to someone saying that greatswords should instakill anyone, as if putting realism in this game means that it must exactly emulate real life.

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

I haven’t made any statements about balance. All I said to begin this discussion was:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

That’s all I said. This was a response to someone saying that greatswords should instakill anyone, as if putting realism in this game means that it must exactly emulate real life.

You were part of a greater conversation were someone did indeed make a suggestion and tried supporting it with the realism argument. I was just adding to the conversation, it was no attack, and I did not try to put in any words in your mouth.

Someone said something concerning realism, someone else replied to that, you then posted about that post. I then added to that if you consider both your post and that by the second person it invalidates the support the first person tried to give his suggestion by saying it was realistic.

(this just got way more complicated than it should have)

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Caliban.3176:

Heijincks.9267:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

My statement was extremely straight forward. I don’t understand how people could still misinterpret it.

I don’t think I misinterpreted it.

You said that one step towards realism doesn’t mean anything else has to change to come closer to realism. (loose paraphrase) That is true. I agree with you (it happens).

I just say that even though what you say is true, it should never be an issue.
I was trying to say that the argument for realism when a player should die from an arrowcart holds no more value than saying that a player should die from a greatsword attack because that is realistic.

Both are steps towards realism but in a perspective for this game that is meaningless because they do not account for balance or many of the other things that are relevant in the game.

I haven’t made any statements about balance. All I said to begin this discussion was:

Heijincks.9267

Getting closer to realism doesn’t necessitate absolute realism.

That’s all I said. This was a response to someone saying that greatswords should instakill anyone, as if putting realism in this game means that it must exactly emulate real life.

You were part of a greater conversation were someone did indeed make a suggestion and tried supporting it with the realism argument. I was just adding to the conversation, it was no attack, and I did not try to put in any words in your mouth.

Someone said something concerning realism, someone else replied to that, you then posted about that post. I then added to that if you consider both your post and that by the second person it invalidates the support the first person tried to give his suggestion by saying it was realistic.

(this just got way more complicated than it should have)

I’m assuming the first poster was Tommyknocker when he said that rams should be immune (or at least resistant) to arrow cart damage since wood isn’t really hurt by arrows. It’s unlikely the second poster would reply to someone else especially when there is a disconnect between the initial post and the many posts before it.

Considering everything said so far, my statement wouldn’t necessarily invalidate support for his statement. Arrows don’t realistically hurt solid wood, thus making siege more resistant against arrow carts is technically a step towards realism.

Asides from that, arrow cart resistant siege is one thing most people here want anyway.

In that sense I don’t see why there is a need to counter the realism argument, in this case anyway. That’s another issue entirely though.

I honestly thought ACs were overpowered before the patch. I can’t fathom this decision.

Paxus.6543:

Jackie.1829:

Paxus.6543:

Snip cause my post is too long with yours.

P.S. I extend an offer to any developer working on wvw willing to do so, to come run with our guild one night on EU, to see the game and how we play it from our perspective. I genuinely believe that devon’s approach of wvw is so disconnected from how WvW is played because at best all I see is developer’s running in pug zergs than I remember steam rolling back when I played against SoR on NA. When the developers balance Spvp, they ask the good players and play with the good players. When I played GW1 the devs there did the same and I have played with Isiah before and discussed the game based on what he saw playing with us. But the current dev approach to wvw is so casual and there is no hands on experience of how wvw should be played aside from some ideology that they have in their heads which is flawed.

Much better explanation and much better way to get your point across. This last part I sadly tend to agree with. Test servers and player feedback is very important granted it does not become just catering to those that QQ the most. Not referring to this particular topic but I have seen that happen in other games.

If you want to see what we stand for then by all means check the following link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Boredom-Reduction-Playstyle-Balance/page/2#post1961156

Personally I think that there needs to be more realism in this video game. When you are fighting a world Dragon…you should be able to not believe in him/her and make him/her disappear…

I can’t stop eating myself up about these new arrowcarts. My god, they tear you apart!
Storming a tower with 20+ people and 3 enemy arrowcarts equals certain defeat.

Getting poisend and crippled and beig butchered with 1,5k damage. That’s not a way to make attackers plan or think of new strategies. It’s dam impossible to take anything with some ac’s around!

While I wouldn’t say impossible I would say far far far less fun than if they let people duke it out and changed the capture mechanic to lengthen fights somewhat as opposed to making AC’s the counter of everything!

Games I will be playing until Arrowcarts are fixed:

Tomb Raider - Its on sale on Steam atm and really fun!
Fez - Cute puzzle game
Civilization 5 - I’ve only put in a good 200 hours to this version of Civ…
Warframe - The price was right…

Take your time Anet. I am in no rush. I am sure your solution will be just as mind blowing as the arrowcart changes in the first place.

Personally I love the new arrow cart damage and range it does against enemy players.

However, the arrow cart should not have the same kind of damage against other siege-it shoots arrows after all. Balistas should be particularly hard to take out with an arrow cart-it has that big metal shield on it-and the person operating a balista should be aforded extra protection against an arrow cart.

Counter siege should require explosive shots of somekind not arrows.

WE TOOK T3 HILLS FULLY SIEGED AND DEFENDED BY THE ENTIRE SERVER!

It only took our entire server, 5 trebs alone to get into inner, few douzen arrowcards, few catapults and we had to wipe the enemy zerg 8+ times.

It took us 1.5 hours. Yes we feel proud. We did the impossible!

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?/topic/4101-dear-arenanet/

That last pic is now dedicated to you. Congrats VcY.

thiagoperne.7340:

Caliban.3176:

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?/topic/4101-dear-arenanet/

That last pic is now dedicated to you. Congrats VcY.

Can’t believe someone actually took his time to edit and post all those pictures. It almost forced me to call this guy a looser lol.

I made most of those …

Caliban.3176:

thiagoperne.7340:

Caliban.3176:

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?/topic/4101-dear-arenanet/

That last pic is now dedicated to you. Congrats VcY.

Can’t believe someone actually took his time to edit and post all those pictures. It almost forced me to call this guy a looser lol.

I made most of those …

Congratulation

thiagoperne.7340:

Caliban.3176:

thiagoperne.7340:

Caliban.3176:

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?/topic/4101-dear-arenanet/

That last pic is now dedicated to you. Congrats VcY.

Can’t believe someone actually took his time to edit and post all those pictures. It almost forced me to call this guy a looser lol.

I made most of those …

Congratulation

For some reason that hardly sounds sincere, but I’ll take it anyway. Thanks!

Caliban.3176:

I made most of those …

I got a good laugh out of them. Thank you.

Attack Hills : Mission Complete is my favorite followed by the Extremely Photogenic Guy.

Urrid.4593:

Caliban.3176:

I made most of those …

I got a good laugh out of them. Thank you.

You’re all invited to make some of your own. There was a thread here but it got moved to the fan-generated content of this forum.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/fangen/New-Patch-Meme-Thread/page/2#post1953312

Sure it’s been said a million times here, but they gotta roll back that AC damage!!! Basically camps are the only things flipping any more. Capturing smaller towers like Ogrewatch and Durios used to be simple and effective, allowing for assaults on the larger control points in the area. Now just getting a tower like Ogrewatch requires dropping trebs. Trebs!!! It took us over 40 minutes to get the door down and when it finally fell, the AC’s held the choke point long enough for the enemy zerg to finally get there and wipe us. It was completely absurd. Plus the AC boost has thrown the server balance in my tier out of wack. We used to be the top, but everyone got so frustrated with WvW after the recent patch that now we’re chronically undermanned. Things just don’t flip anymore. Keeps don’t change hands, things don’t move. It’s all about nabbing camps and building Arrow Carts. It should be called ACvACvAC. The worst part of it is hearing commanders tactics reduced to: “Build an AC here.” It’s the knee-jerk response to everything. Yes, there was a lot of criticism about the Karma train PvD issue, but honestly this is far worse. With ZERO karma trains no one is drawn to WvW for xp or karma, It’s just not worth it. Killing tower lords is just more fun then guarding AC’s.

Pretty much that ^

We can agree and argue all the day long about how wrong was blobbing and zerging and flipping and Wxp trains and how to counter or change that meta.

But this is far far worse.

WvW has gotten so slow with this arrow cart buff they are far to strong. They are being used for everything even open field fights. I got on today and played for two hours while the whole time working on taking hills. Trebing and counter trebing since the amount of arrow carts prevented anything else. 2 hours later I was bored and tired of watching nothing happen the opposing server never tried to come out and fight us just hide behind the arrow carts.

If this was an attempt to split zergs it was horrible and is doing much more damage then the zergs.

I hope this is fixed soon and quickly this new slowed down game can be a game killer. Not just for me but i’m sure a lot of people.

ScrubieSouce.3724:

WvW has gotten so slow with this arrow cart buff they are far to strong. They are being used for everything even open field fights. I got on today and played for two hours while the whole time working on taking hills. Trebing and counter trebing since the amount of arrow carts prevented anything else. 2 hours later I was bored and tired of watching nothing happen the opposing server never tried to come out and fight us just hide behind the arrow carts.

If this was an attempt to split zergs it was horrible and is doing much more damage then the zergs.

I hope this is fixed soon and quickly this new slowed down game can be a game killer. Not just for me but i’m sure a lot of people.

If anything the dreaded April 30th patch of doom was a huge shot in the arm of zergs and a massive buff for servers who are already dominating. Now that glam confusion mesmers are extinct (RIP) zergs are unbreakable. But the AC buff was far, FAR more damaging to the meta-game of WvW. I’ve been playing games for over 20 years and I’ve never seen a single patch cripple a game so intensely. My server has been engaged in a 3 hour long struggle to capture Durios. Not Hills, not Garrison, Durios. The reason is that the other server stacked it to the gills with arrow carts. You can’t get NEAR the kitten. Even building catapults doesn’t work because of the range on the AC’s. Crazy. The worst part is that a downed wall used to mean victory. Not any more. We broke that wall THREE times and each time our zerg was wiped trying to enter the tower because of all the AC’s raining death down from the walls. Even porting in doesn’t work because you’re still in AC range. Then the enemy zerg lazily wanders over when they’re good and ready and clears all the trebs we built at umber. They yawn and saunter off. Rinse, repeat for 3 freaking hours. And we’re the lower-pop server. See, if Anet wanted to help low-pop severs, they failed miserably. SM does NOT EVER FLIP. One server holds it for the whole week. See, the bigger servers can grab and hold now without fear of any retaliation. If Anet doesnt fix this soon I’m not sure how long I’m gonna stay with this game. VERY frustrating.

thiagoperne.7340:

Aaron.4807:

thiagoperne.7340:

Devon and the others have allready said that they are looking into this, we are still waiting to see what happens next.

I think what Devon meant to say is “L2P with the new changes”. And the only issues with AC’s is the damage they are doing to sieges and the range, nothing else. And Im so indeed.

…no enemy force on the map, which is pretty much the only way to take a fortified keep now, you have to wait until the enemy gets bored and logs out.

Is not even worth to argue with someone that stil have this in mind. And that’s why this thread has too much whining. But don’t worry, you surely will get through this at some point.

If you think arrow carts are fine as is then I am inclined to believe that you are not even playing wvw at all.

MiLkZz.4789:

I noticed a big decrease in WvW players. Now only in prime you can get decent kills. It is a bit empty now outside of it.

And @Jackie you are 100% right and this is the reason I am mad about the ACs.

The arrowcarts having nothing to do with that.
Your current matchup does.
ROF never had night numbers, so from last week to this week, you were always going to see a mass drop in numbers out of prime time. Same for DZ, they have more nighttimers than us, but nowhere near the new ROS, since the mass transfers you got.

Blame the stupidity of the all pile on ROS bandwagon for your lack of targets, not the arrowcarts.

Now on topic: so far in EU t7 the changes to acs have made it so that you can actually defend a lopsided battle keep/tower outside of primetime (think 5 vs 30). The few large defences I’ve been in since the change, to be honest the balisstas played a bigger part than the acs.

The few large offensives, we just took down the nme acs leaving them with just courtyard ones are only good for taking down rams and blocking breached walls , unless you are zoom hacking or window pov glitching (which dont seem to happen often in low tiers thankfully). Both of which are easily countered, either with a catapult or two, or dodge rolling through the breach, with stability. At which point the acs are useless cos you get right on top of them. Hence my point about the balisstas playing a larger role than the acs.

Just my 2c from a lowbie server: destroy wall acs with your own, your eles, your cats or trebs, the inner courtyard ones arnt an issues, except for when pov is abused, and that is a seperate issue that needs fixing.

Oh and before " that makes rams useless" no it doesn’t. It just means use them for your initial push before the defenders realise your target, or use them for your final push once siege and supply are destroyed / used up.

So far I’ve died to 1 set of acs and that was cos I suicided on my ele to destroy them.

Do the new acs make things harder ? YES, sure.
Do the new acs make it impossible to take a structure? NOPE, not at all.

Entropy.4732:

My server has been engaged in a 3 hour long struggle to capture Durios. Not Hills, not Garrison, Durios. The reason is that the other server stacked it to the gills with arrow carts. You can’t get NEAR the kitten. Even building catapults doesn’t work because of the range on the AC’s. Crazy. The worst part is that a downed wall used to mean victory. Not any more. We broke that wall THREE times and each time our zerg was wiped trying to enter the tower because of all the AC’s raining death down from the walls. Even porting in doesn’t work because you’re still in AC range. Then the enemy zerg lazily wanders over when they’re good and ready and clears all the trebs we built at umber. They yawn and saunter off. Rinse, repeat for 3 freaking hours. And we’re the lower-pop server. See, if Anet wanted to help low-pop severs, they failed miserably. SM does NOT EVER FLIP. One server holds it for the whole week. See, the bigger servers can grab and hold now without fear of any retaliation. If Anet doesnt fix this soon I’m not sure how long I’m gonna stay with this game. VERY frustrating.

So you have their supply line umber. So they have to run supply from outside. You can treb from umber like you said you did. So you can treb their acs away.

Now the fact that they lazily destroyed your trebs but didnt flip umber? Means they didnt have the numbers to oust you. So you rebuild a treb and destroy their acs. It also means that they must have been running supply in from elsewhere, so stop them, once you accomplish that no more rebuilt walls, no more rebuilt acs inside and you waltz on in.

We had a similar battle in my tier. I was defending. We had 2 ac 2 balissta left that the umber trebs couldnt hit and were outnumbered 2 to 1. the trebs had destroyed maybe 4 acs. We sallied a few times to destroy trebs, they rebuilt them. Eventually we ran out of supply, having to run it from SM and so we stopped wall repairs. They attacked and died to our acs and ballies. Then one bright spark on the opposing team, stealthed in and started taking down acs. He got both before we got him, thieves can be like that and then he came back and did it again, took him a few attempts to get my ballista cos I kept point blank spreadshotting him. He was just one player. Had a few of them coordinated all our siege would have been gone on the first attempt. As it was he solod all the siege down with a few repeat attempts, whist the rest stopped us resuppying. Had we had more siege it certainly would have been more difficult for him, but not impposible. Incidentally thieves have been asking for a wvw role, tada there it is.

They took the tower. It took them a fair while longer than before the update, but before the update the tower would have been lost in 3mins flat.

It’s actually kinda like that in every tier.

You don’t really have to defend structures so there’s not usually a reason to take a fight, other than over supply or for giggles.

I’ll just leave this here.

DevonCarver.5370:

snip

Secondly, this change is going to require new tactics and those tactics include things like using ballista and catapults to destroy arrow carts. With that in mind, we’ve been looking more closely at the numbers of all the siege weapons and there are definitely some changes that need to be made to bring them in line with their intent. We are going to take a holistic pass at siege weapons in the coming months and drop a rebalance of all of them to get them to more closely align with what they should be doing.

snip

I very much appreciate this response. My only remaining question is: are arrowcarts meant to benefit from LoS? We can place ACs in spots that cannot be cata’ed or ballista’ed down. The new tactic may then be to place carts only in those spots. (i.e. when you can place them at a gate and hit the rams, but the carts can’t be damaged.) There’s an argument for both sides of this. I was just curious.

in the weekend our ( ag , rs and ganadara ) www keeps/towers and camps changed many times owners.

they had acs defend them ? plenty of them

they were full upgraded ? of course

they had defenders ? of course

this post was only to send my feedback to devs , that the situation is not dramatic as some players trying to say in these forums.

I understand Towers (in particular) shouldn’t be easy to take. Though now, just with 1-3 arrow carts well placed and manned, it’s almost impossible to take a Tower unless you have the luxury of time to take down a wall and still no enemy reinforcements arrive to protect the tower.

Actually, the only way I’ve seen a small force(10-15) be able to take a Tower is to set down their own arrow carts and also use the ZOOM HACK to be able to target most all places inside the Tower to burn down the defense’s ACs.

After the AC change, golems are way less viable too. I witnessed a 35+ golem rush on hills and were able to take down NW Outer gate, but only had like 2-3 remaining once inside outer gate, and the remaining 3 just melted due to AC (as did all the others) very quickly.

Yamato Shinobi.4378:

After the AC change, golems are way less viable too. I witnessed a 35+ golem rush on hills and were able to take down NW Outer gate, but only had like 2-3 remaining once inside outer gate, and the remaining 3 just melted due to AC (as did all the others) very quickly.

tbh, thats just sad, even with the AC buff, which i hate, 35 golems should be able to take the first gate in like 30seconds or less, idk how u failed there unless they were opening fire on you before ur golems even got to the gate.

I’m fine with the damage.

I do agree the range is a bit much.

I will say, I would have rather seen a buff that had some utility skills like leg specialist did before. I wouldn’t mind trading the damage for something like that but other wise, I think the damage is fine.

ac wars2.now wvwvw is very boring.

I actually do not have an issue with the arrow cart damage. Arrow carts should hurt naturally, but as many others have pointed out the damage they do to siege just does not make much sense to me. It should hurt the operator of the siege, but the siege itself should be largely unharmed by arrow carts. Now, this also allows for another ability to be added in the way of ‘flaming arrows’ this would boost the damage to siege but even then I would like the extent to be less than it is now.

Also, as numerous other threads have pointed out and in this thread, pov ‘hacking’ is a major issue with the increased damage on arrow carts. At least, on the servers we are currently facing. I’ll forgo mentioning names as I don’t want to get into a flame war, but suffice to say, people can hit places that just do not make sense. Including through covered area’s which is just silly. This really takes away from the enjoyment of the game for myself and I know arenanet’s stance on this is ‘report the user’, but this is not a satisfying fix as you can not see the user or the arrow cart to begin with.

Just my two cents, but I really would like to see the damage against siege reduced at the very least and have some time spent on solving the pov issue’s that currently create a subpar WvWvW experience, for myself and I am sure numerous others who have encountered this.