Guild Wars 2

Pmetheus.5397:

Weekends are by no means representative of our server. The vast majority of people that were on the borderlands are pugs and the big “main” wvw servers were only able to field a fraction of their numbers. So yeah. If you think fighting JQ’s unorganized bandwagon pugs during the weekends is “Fair” and representative of our true strength, you’re gonna have a bad time.

First you need to realize that some of the people you are arguing with under the assumption that they are clueless about JQ are from JQ originally. Just sayin.’ ….

Secondly, JQ is no different over the weekend that the other servers. SoR had issues getting commanders and guilds in all weekend as well. Not only that, we have had issues with it all week save for last night.

covenn.7165:

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Covenn, you should really learn how to use the ‘edit post’ button. Three back-to-back posts is pretty rediculous.

I know how to use the edit post button. Don’t be childish.

The posts were made at different times if you look at the time stamp and I was doing other things in between. That is pretty normal behavior and there is nothing ridiculous about it. Speaking of learning things, have you figured out how that spellchecker yet?

The irony of that bold question..

I’m quite surprised you took such offense to my statement. I was simply trying to help you compress your three posts into one, which should have been quite understandable, as you posted all three of them within the same hour. It is not difficult to edit a post, it has been common and basic forum etiquette for years that double posting (triple posting in your case) should be avoided when possible.

Score update, enjoy the last few days of the match before all of us get sent off to face-roll lesser servers.

All this needless arguing. I just wanted to say I had a blast fighting you guys this week!

I’m from JQ in a wvw guild, I usually advise my guildies to avoid WvW on weekends because it fills with pugs, dont get me wrong I have nothing against pugs, thats actually awesome they are learning fast but I just prefer to stay out cuz it can be a bit stressful haha, JQ has every right to defend their coverage after all everyone worked hard for recruits, stop generalizing our behavior by a few who only post in forums and barely show in WvW lol…. try to be more objective pls, that goes for jqers too

Pmetheus.5397:

Jahn.7019:

Thor.1756:

Frankly all this talk about weekends being the end all be all of wvw is bullkitten. Weekends invite more casual pugs to play than normal, making queueing rough and preventing guilds from moving across b
orders to ones that need organization. Point is, weekends have their fair share of problems, especially for an overpopulated server like JQ. 

Everyone has their prime time during the weekdays when their coverage is good. Man up, take your losses during your downtime (like JQ has done for 18 weeks or so before we got better coverage), and fight like hell when you can. I can only imagine the kittening from SoS and SoR if they had been in t1 against HoD. You guys really have no idea.

You do realize that some of SoS is that very HoD crew(and they fully admitted how stacked their server was and broke it up) and the SoR people consists of quite a few SBI and couple JQ guilds who also were there fighting the old HoD.

So in fact, it is you who has no idea what you are talking about. Except for the fact that you admit you have an overpopulated server. At least you are admitting it now.

Your words make no sense. I completely agree with Thor. Weekends are by no means representative of our server. The vast majority of people that were on the borderlands are pugs and the big “main” wvw servers were only able to field a fraction of their numbers. So yeah. If you think fighting JQ’s unorganized bandwagon pugs during the weekends is “Fair” and representative of our true strength, you’re gonna have a bad time. *Yeah we have coverage, but that’s a huge factor of being in Tier 1 – being able to stay competitive all week. People should’ve realized it by now and started working on strategies (such as shifts) instead of sitting in LA and complaining about it on the forums. We’ve had huge coverage issues before and have been through some rough times during the past 12 weeks against SoS but the reason we’ve stayed in T1 through the gaps is because we kept fighting through it all. *Through the culling, through the double team, through the coverage gaps. Jade Quarry doesn’t hang the towel just because we’re not 1st.

These do not reflect the attitude’s we want. Yes weekends are a struggle but it’s not because of the highlighted reasons. Do not try and say it is. Weekend’s we struggle getting numbers in but that’s not the fault of those in the maps. It’s simply a reality when people have more time on the weekends they will play more which also lengthens queues. How we do on the weekend is different than the weekdays for many reasons but do not ever claim it’s cause of “bandwagoners or disorganized pugs” because if we are losing in ppt its because of our OWN Lack of effort and organization not because of someone else.

Jahn.7019:

So in fact, it is you who has no idea what you are talking about. Except for the fact that you admit you have an overpopulated server. At least you are admitting it now.

All tier 1 servers are overpopulated. Get off your high horse.

Nuked.2360:

These do not reflect the attitude’s we want. Yes weekends are a struggle but it’s not because of the highlighted reasons. Do not try and say it is. Weekend’s we struggle getting numbers in but that’s not the fault of those in the maps. It’s simply a reality when people have more time on the weekends they will play more which also lengthens queues. How we do on the weekend is different than the weekdays for many reasons but do not ever claim it’s cause of “bandwagoners or disorganized pugs” because if we are losing in ppt its because of our OWN Lack of effort and organization not because of someone else.

Well said. Bravo sir. Can we get a “like” option please?

This thread has devolved into pointless bickering and nonsensical points and counterpoints. It needs more murderous psychotic pink haired anime women. For about 10 hours. Then maybe everyone will have calmed down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI_fgwbmJg0

Jedbacca.6297:

Churchill.8714:

wondo.2870:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Well it kind of sucks that one one will ever be able to dethrone JQ until people get bored and inevitable quit. Some of those guilds that transferred to JQ should have dispersed to SoR, SoS, and BG for much more even match ups. The way this is going we will just have servers fighting for second place like SoS is doing right now. Anyway the weekend match up was awesome and I am looking forward to more of those in the future.

SBI wvw guilds dispersed to JQ, SoR, FA and Kain. And some remained on SBI

7 to JQ, 7 to SoR, 2(or 3 if you count WM) went to Kain, 2 went to FA.

Churchill.8714:

I wouldn’t really be afraid of Kaineng. Warmachine is a terrible guild and anyone from SoS/JQ knows they are no real threat. They couldn’t hold SBI together (or push them over 3rd place) and they certainly aren’t going to take Kaineng past there either.

I wouldn’t talk about something you clearly know nothing about. Or talk about a guild you know nothing about. And for the record SBI got two second place finishes in the SoS/JQ/SBI matchups.

I thought SF would never abandon SBI?

Like I said earlier – the guilds from SBI that went to SoR and didn’t follow you are much better representations of the people who carried SBI to any fortune they had.

SF and Warmachine are bag dispensers.

. None of us go out of our way to have personal attacks against teams throughout the community unless they would be damaging to communities overall.

As for being bag dispensers, I heard I personally have a higher percentage of dropping Legendaries. I’m the big Charr warrior with a big hammer in front of the SF tags.

Wait…
Jed, didnt you lead pugs to their death and call them fodder..

I remember last time I had the misfortune of following you in SBI BL and you kept a zerg outside of hills, and watched us get wiped at the hole outside the wall -_-

I remember slamming my head on the wall at all the people who kept running back..
to die..

over…

and over….

and over -_-

P.S. I wont lie..
after around the 15min mark i started laughing hysterically at the people who kept going back…

..to die….

lettucemode.3789:

Obsidian.1328:

Lulz, what was up with that article?? It pretty much condones winning at all costs, even by cheating. By that logic we should get rid of all referee’s in all sports and just have it be a free-for-all. :/ If you were being sarcastic then I’ll ‘lol,’ but I couldn’t tell :P

You missed an important detail. The article says that you should use any tournament-legal move to win. Cheating in the form of hacks or kicking other players in the shins is obviously not legal in tournaments, nor is ignoring the referees/rules and having a free for all.

That’s one of the most important articles (if not the most important article) ever written about competing in games, please don’t dismiss it so lightly.

^

This. Most players that have been gaming a while would recognize the article in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is that you use what tools are available — if you are playing to win. If you’re not, don’t cry about losing.

Abusing culling is cheap? Use it.
Hiding Mesmers in a keep? Use it.
Turtle/stacking/zergballing? Use it.
Placing Trebs in unassailable positions? Use it.
Catapult AOE’ing through gates? Player AOE through walls? Use it.
Food buffs? Consumables? Use them.
Ninja golems? Of course.
Porting golems between zones (is this still possible)? Sounds like a plan*.

ANet will change whatever ANet feels like changing. If they “fix” or otherwise change those strategies … well, there will be new ones.

The article also mentions “real” cheating — breaking the game and community agreed-upon rules. In the context of GW2 and MMORPGs in general, this basically centers on hacking, jumping up walls, through geometry, spam bombing voice comms on other servers, etc. Those are ‘cheating’.

*Critically vulnerable to the kittenING QUEUE MONSTER, however.

LOL people take this GAME way to seriously. I have said this before and will TLDR it again although it is against JQ (the server I now reside on).

2nd and 3rd need to realize who the biggest threat is and double team them constantly in order to try and make up for other advantages #1 may have such as coverage. If they do not do that than they are not playing for first they are playing for second and the glorious right to play in T1 (which admittedly is where the most competitive PvP occurs during prime time).

People just need to except the fact that there will almost always be a dominant server based on how most humans play games…they want to win and will go where the chances of them winning are best.

Log in and fight hard and have fun. LOL it is not like winning in WvW means anything anyhow. If you want to flex your kitten go play some TPvP and become the top dog in that. The environment is controlled and it is much more about your personal skill and coverage has nothing to do with it =)

Oh btw…great fights this week. Awesome match up during prime time when I play.

Envi.2460:

This thread has devolved into pointless bickering and nonsensical points and counterpoints. It needs more murderous psychotic pink haired anime women. For about 10 hours. Then maybe everyone will have calmed down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI_fgwbmJg0

YUKI YUKI YUKI YUKI….why did you post this link! All I can hear is YUKI in my head now

If we want to talk about pure skill versus skill. I think JQ is rather skilled, especially the way they organize their militia. Heck Choo bounces out of EB… 10 minutes later JQ militia are flying around the SM lords rooms with highly coordinated precision. The way JQ moves and contests camps for back up as well as contests waypoints before making strikes are also very impressive considering there dont appear to be any large organized guilds in there.

I dont think or at least I hope that when people are talking about JQs coverage they are not mad at it and that they are not ignoring JQ’s ability to organize militia effectively. It also natural to try and blame and identify that the only reason JQ is winning is because of coverage because its something largely out of our control. JQs skill as a server is nothing but Tier 1 quality and as an SoR Commander, Guild Leader, and WvW’er, I think that people look over that easily.

With that being said, I think this week has been some of the best PvP I have had in a long while. Especially reset night against FoE and PRX as well as the rest of the week against FoE and a little tSym in there for flavor the other night. I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Nuked.2360:

if we are losing in ppt its because of our OWN Lack of effort and organization not because of someone else.

I doubt its only related to effort, remember WvW is not a duty lol, I avoid WvW on weekends to not get stressed because indeed, it’s disorganized but I do it to enjoy pve and spvp too and I’m sure a lot of WvW’ers do that too, I’m actually happy to see a lot of pugs on weekends, after all JQ was known for being a PvE server what’s wrong with it ^ ^?, SoR, SoS, BG and whoever you want can say any statement about our week weekends but we always been like that, that big disorganized server who maintains in T1, we can have a lot of transfers but we are a big server thanks to everyone not only to WvW’ers, if you’re looking to be #1 all week then where is the competition left? that’s just boring, I’m happy to see, atleast at the beginning, a hard-fought match, we might be lazy but we are skilled

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I’m quite surprised you took such offense to my statement. I was simply trying to help you compress your three posts into one, which should have been quite understandable, as you posted all three of them within the same hour. It is not difficult to edit a post, it has been common and basic forum etiquette for years that double posting (triple posting in your case) should be avoided when possible.

I wasn’t offended, I just assumed you were trying to illicit a negative response for the reasons I mentioned. Regardless, I am surprised that you think your ‘help’ was understandable, necessary, or even desirable. Perhaps you should adhere to basic and common etiquette and refrain from helping those who neither desire it or need it.

SoS should set up some super secret meetings here some time:

JQueue can also come if they behave.

Solori.6025:

Jedbacca.6297:

Churchill.8714:

wondo.2870:

SmokeyNYY.7841:

Well it kind of sucks that one one will ever be able to dethrone JQ until people get bored and inevitable quit. Some of those guilds that transferred to JQ should have dispersed to SoR, SoS, and BG for much more even match ups. The way this is going we will just have servers fighting for second place like SoS is doing right now. Anyway the weekend match up was awesome and I am looking forward to more of those in the future.

SBI wvw guilds dispersed to JQ, SoR, FA and Kain. And some remained on SBI

7 to JQ, 7 to SoR, 2(or 3 if you count WM) went to Kain, 2 went to FA.

Churchill.8714:

I wouldn’t really be afraid of Kaineng. Warmachine is a terrible guild and anyone from SoS/JQ knows they are no real threat. They couldn’t hold SBI together (or push them over 3rd place) and they certainly aren’t going to take Kaineng past there either.

I wouldn’t talk about something you clearly know nothing about. Or talk about a guild you know nothing about. And for the record SBI got two second place finishes in the SoS/JQ/SBI matchups.

I thought SF would never abandon SBI?

Like I said earlier – the guilds from SBI that went to SoR and didn’t follow you are much better representations of the people who carried SBI to any fortune they had.

SF and Warmachine are bag dispensers.

. None of us go out of our way to have personal attacks against teams throughout the community unless they would be damaging to communities overall.

As for being bag dispensers, I heard I personally have a higher percentage of dropping Legendaries. I’m the big Charr warrior with a big hammer in front of the SF tags.

Wait…
Jed, didnt you lead pugs to their death and call them fodder..

I remember last time I had the misfortune of following you in SBI BL and you kept a zerg outside of hills, and watched us get wiped at the hole outside the wall -_-

I remember slamming my head on the wall at all the people who kept running back..
to die..

over…

and over….

and over -_-

P.S. I wont lie..
after around the 15min mark i started laughing hysterically at the people who kept going back…

..to die….

I also call myself cannon fodder for pugs while I’m on counter offense. What’s your point? I have slammed myself up against a brick wall of SoS and JQ numerous times so the teams behind me can cap a primary objective. I have no problem taking turns dying over and over as long as long as it accomplishes a goal.

I frequently state to the people in map chat that if you are following me, you will more than likely die on any suicide mission. Nice job at trying to take a stab at me personally. If you can’t read that’s a personal problem.

Despite all the negativity from forums, I can speak for behalf of my guild EMP – Empërium, has enjoyed all rigorous encounters from opposing servers. This week our main objective was to sit down and optimize the transition time between our coverage hours for our triple way point defense.

Shout out to: TSYM,FEAR,TW,NYS,TWL,ONE,MERC and many other guilds for putting up such a fantastic fight.

Our ambitions of Nonagon’ing border waypoints were cut short this morning by 2 waypoints from such a heavy offense. Great fight everyone and keep up the good work!

Also, EMP will be doing GvG’s all friday.

Message me if your guild is interested! We can tell you the matchup details.

Tarin Twisted.4183:

2nd and 3rd need to realize who the biggest threat is and double team them constantly in order to try and make up for other advantages #1 may have such as coverage. If they do not do that than they are not playing for first they are playing for second and the glorious right to play in T1 (which admittedly is where the most competitive PvP occurs during prime time).

Winning isn’t that important.

The fights this week have been wonderful.

Dark Revan.7634:

Envi.2460:

This thread has devolved into pointless bickering and nonsensical points and counterpoints. It needs more murderous psychotic pink haired anime women. For about 10 hours. Then maybe everyone will have calmed down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI_fgwbmJg0

YUKI YUKI YUKI YUKI….why did you post this link! All I can hear is YUKI in my head now

Make sure to listen to all 10 hours. It gets amazing after about 3. Yuki yuki yuki yuki!!!! It might have to do with the fact i thought the anime was amazing.

For what it’s worth about pugs, and suiciding, and SF. I followed and participated in some of their team activities. Eye-opening learning experience. SF and Jedbacca don’t back down from objectives. The reasons and plans get made and communicated, pugs (me) are willing participants.

I have been solo scouting with my upleveled 19-31 mesmer in WvW, repair costs are quite cheap. Defeat is merely a small cost in cash, and time. But the scouting is quite useful. Finding foes “stealth” seige building, camp-flipping and golem building is all valuable info.
Once you stop fearing defeat, victory is more achieveable.

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Nuked.2360:

Pmetheus.5397:

Jahn.7019:

Thor.1756:

Frankly all this talk about weekends being the end all be all of wvw is bullkitten. Weekends invite more casual pugs to play than normal, making queueing rough and preventing guilds from moving across b
orders to ones that need organization. Point is, weekends have their fair share of problems, especially for an overpopulated server like JQ. 

Everyone has their prime time during the weekdays when their coverage is good. Man up, take your losses during your downtime (like JQ has done for 18 weeks or so before we got better coverage), and fight like hell when you can. I can only imagine the kittening from SoS and SoR if they had been in t1 against HoD. You guys really have no idea.

You do realize that some of SoS is that very HoD crew(and they fully admitted how stacked their server was and broke it up) and the SoR people consists of quite a few SBI and couple JQ guilds who also were there fighting the old HoD.

So in fact, it is you who has no idea what you are talking about. Except for the fact that you admit you have an overpopulated server. At least you are admitting it now.

Your words make no sense. I completely agree with Thor. Weekends are by no means representative of our server. The vast majority of people that were on the borderlands are pugs and the big “main” wvw servers were only able to field a fraction of their numbers. So yeah. If you think fighting JQ’s unorganized bandwagon pugs during the weekends is “Fair” and representative of our true strength, you’re gonna have a bad time. *Yeah we have coverage, but that’s a huge factor of being in Tier 1 – being able to stay competitive all week. People should’ve realized it by now and started working on strategies (such as shifts) instead of sitting in LA and complaining about it on the forums. We’ve had huge coverage issues before and have been through some rough times during the past 12 weeks against SoS but the reason we’ve stayed in T1 through the gaps is because we kept fighting through it all. *Through the culling, through the double team, through the coverage gaps. Jade Quarry doesn’t hang the towel just because we’re not 1st.

These do not reflect the attitude’s we want. Yes weekends are a struggle but it’s not because of the highlighted reasons. Do not try and say it is. Weekend’s we struggle getting numbers in but that’s not the fault of those in the maps. It’s simply a reality when people have more time on the weekends they will play more which also lengthens queues. How we do on the weekend is different than the weekdays for many reasons but do not ever claim it’s cause of “bandwagoners or disorganized pugs” because if we are losing in ppt its because of our OWN Lack of effort and organization not because of someone else.

Sorry i should clarify.I have nothing against pugs. I work with them a lot actually. I’m usually the person broadcasting to team chat what I hear on TS for everyone’s benefit. What I’m getting at is that these pugs running around unorganized (most of which are not on TS) a doesn’t represent the strength of our server from an organized guild point of view. My statement refers to the people that think the servers are evenly matched on the weekends are mistaken.yes there might be the same amount of people on at the same time but none of it is a clear indication off each servers strengths or weaknesses.

EasymodeX.4062:

lettucemode.3789:

Obsidian.1328:

Lulz, what was up with that article?? It pretty much condones winning at all costs, even by cheating. By that logic we should get rid of all referee’s in all sports and just have it be a free-for-all. :/ If you were being sarcastic then I’ll ‘lol,’ but I couldn’t tell :P

You missed an important detail. The article says that you should use any tournament-legal move to win. Cheating in the form of hacks or kicking other players in the shins is obviously not legal in tournaments, nor is ignoring the referees/rules and having a free for all.

That’s one of the most important articles (if not the most important article) ever written about competing in games, please don’t dismiss it so lightly.

^

This. Most players that have been gaming a while would recognize the article in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is that you use what tools are available — if you are playing to win. If you’re not, don’t cry about losing.

Abusing culling is cheap? Use it.
Hiding Mesmers in a keep? Use it.
Turtle/stacking/zergballing? Use it.
Placing Trebs in unassailable positions? Use it.
Catapult AOE’ing through gates? Player AOE through walls? Use it.
Food buffs? Consumables? Use them.
Ninja golems? Of course.
Porting golems between zones (is this still possible)? Sounds like a plan*.

ANet will change whatever ANet feels like changing. If they “fix” or otherwise change those strategies … well, there will be new ones.

The article also mentions “real” cheating — breaking the game and community agreed-upon rules. In the context of GW2 and MMORPGs in general, this basically centers on hacking, jumping up walls, through geometry, spam bombing voice comms on other servers, etc. Those are ‘cheating’.

*Critically vulnerable to the kittenING QUEUE MONSTER, however.

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned, but I don’t only go by what ANet sets as rules for fairplay, or any other game-producer for that matter. There is such a thing as unspoken rules of conduct and sportsmanship that are above any written letter. This idea that you should do whatever they let you get away with is juvenile and corrupting.

As for your above examples, almost all of them seem ok because they either have counters, or are designed that way. I’m not saying I’m not guilty of abusing design flaws either, I’ve done my share. But I do feel guilty for doing it. Trying to use sound judgement and having a sliver of a sense of fairplay should never be considered weak or stupid. Heck, I’ll even start by stopping to use that ridiculous underwater pet-glitch that lets it rez you even if it’s supposed to be dead. I think we can all agree it’s not supposed to work that way.

Any takers?

Ohai.8346:

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Facts:
2012 Week 47, SoS makes it to T1, Wins
Including this week, SoS wins 9 times in 12 weeks. Including 6 in a row.
edit: SoS first appears in T1 in 2012 Week 46 and was 3rd place. Apologies for that.

JQ won 3 times of 12. Including 2 in a row.

Yep, JQ took the competitiveness out of T1, the sky is falling, we are all doomed, etc.

MarMaster.6241:

Ohai.8346:

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Facts:
2012 Week 47, SoS makes it to T1, Wins
Including this week, SoS wins 9 times in 12 weeks. Including 6 in a row.

JQ won 3 times of 12. Including 2 in a row.

Yep, JQ took the competitiveness out of T1, the sky is falling, we are all doomed, etc.

Don’t waste your breath responding to him. He’s the biggest troll in the T1 threads. Notice his mouth was shut until JQ took the lead.

Obsidian.1328:

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned, but I don’t only go by what ANet sets as rules for fairplay, or any other game-producer for that matter. There is such a thing as unspoken rules of conduct and sportsmanship that are above any written letter. This idea that you should do whatever they let you get away with is juvenile and corrupting.

I wouldn’t suggest that ANet’s word is law on what’s acceptable. However, anything in-game that isn’t completely broken (e.g. glitching through walls), is fair game — and if ANet explicitly cites anything as unacceptable, then that’s, well, cheating. Their game after all.

In the general case, though, I don’t care if it’s “cheesy” or “cheap” or “unfair”. I feel no guilt for abusing design flaws — that’s basically my reward for applying my brain to the game design (or in various specific cases, applying group coordination to the game design).

That’s pure PvP in my book.

MarMaster.6241:

Ohai.8346:

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Facts:
2012 Week 47, SoS makes it to T1, Wins
Including this week, SoS wins 9 times in 12 weeks. Including 6 in a row.

JQ won 3 times of 12. Including 2 in a row.

Yep, JQ took the competitiveness out of T1, the sky is falling, we are all doomed, etc.

SoS won competitive games by 20k or less since that guild went to europe, and when they came back to JQ you may have won that game as it was down to 2k i think by the Friday? Yes thats competitive. Adding 20 guilds more to stack the server and make the games boring blowouts is not healthy to GW2 nor fun to anyone partaking in those games. So as i said, enjoy your boredom playing against doors. we will cyas for a few hours a night for our guild runs, but thats about it.

EasymodeX.4062:

I wouldn’t suggest that ANet’s word is law on what’s acceptable. However, anything in-game that isn’t completely broken (e.g. glitching through walls), is fair game — and if ANet explicitly cites anything as unacceptable, then that’s, well, cheating. Their game after all.

In the general case, though, I don’t care if it’s “cheesy” or “cheap” or “unfair”. I feel no guilt for abusing design flaws — that’s basically my reward for applying my brain to the game design (or in various specific cases, applying group coordination to the game design).

That’s pure PvP in my book.

I used to play tabletop Warhammer 40k here locally and one thing i noticed was the guys who played with “honor” would typically just be easy kills for those of us that bound ourselves only by the exact rules of the rulebook.

This discussion is no different.

If anyone wishes to impose upon themselves a personal code of how they should play thats their personal business. Those that do not will just have that advantage. In the end its just a game and if you have fun playing under your personal umbrella of honor and fair play more power to ya. If you have fun just playing the system as it was designed and squeezing out a win any way you can within the rules then more power to ya on that as well.

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

Ohai.8346:

MarMaster.6241:

Ohai.8346:

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Facts:
2012 Week 47, SoS makes it to T1, Wins
Including this week, SoS wins 9 times in 12 weeks. Including 6 in a row.

JQ won 3 times of 12. Including 2 in a row.

Yep, JQ took the competitiveness out of T1, the sky is falling, we are all doomed, etc.

SoS won competitive games by 20k or less since that guild went to europe, and when they came back to JQ you may have won that game as it was down to 2k i think by the Friday? Yes thats competitive. Adding 20 guilds more to stack the server and make the games boring blowouts is not healthy to GW2 nor fun to anyone partaking in those games. So as i said, enjoy your boredom playing against doors. we will cyas for a few hours a night for our guild runs, but thats about it.

Are you FoE’s spoke person ?

Pmetheus.5397:

My statement refers to the people that think the servers are evenly matched on the weekends are mistaken.yes there might be the same amount of people on at the same time but none of it is a clear indication off each servers strengths or weaknesses.

So how can you be certain that JQ is less organized than other servers on the weekends? Perhaps that is the flaw in what you are saying. I know first hand that we couldn’t get commanders and guild members into borderlands due to queues. This means that SoR too was lacking organization over the weekend.

Ohai.8346:

MarMaster.6241:

Ohai.8346:

spartanx.1364:

I will say this though SoS’s presence on EB seems scared to attack JQ. I am NOT playing the we are getting 2v1 card, I just wish SoS pressured JQ more so we could get them off our lawn.

Right from the reset SoR were all over SoS towers, and every time we took SM you were all over ogrewatch etc. What do you think we are going to do when you take SM?
T1 WvW is very broken and lopsided right now though and most of us are not playing it aside from scheduled nights with guilds as its pointless fighting uphill battles trying to keep PPT against a server with 4x your numbers, so JQ can enjoy the boredom & wins at the expense of fun, and when there are forces to fight expect to be rolled as usual.
Still very upset they stacked like that and took all the competitiveness out of t1 scoreboard game when it was obviously very very tight after their first 2 big guilds joined.

Facts:
2012 Week 47, SoS makes it to T1, Wins
Including this week, SoS wins 9 times in 12 weeks. Including 6 in a row.

JQ won 3 times of 12. Including 2 in a row.

Yep, JQ took the competitiveness out of T1, the sky is falling, we are all doomed, etc.

SoS won competitive games by 20k or less since that guild went to europe, and when they came back to JQ you may have won that game as it was down to 2k i think by the Friday? Yes thats competitive. Adding 20 guilds more to stack the server and make the games boring blowouts is not healthy to GW2 nor fun to anyone partaking in those games. So as i said, enjoy your boredom playing against doors. we will cyas for a few hours a night for our guild runs, but thats about it.

Your attitude of turning tail and running away whenever you are faced with a challenge is also not healthy for GW2 nor fun to anyone partaking in those games. I need my bags somehow.

pot.6805:

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

Kind of a broad statement and not applicable since most of the server is still doing normal daily activities like working, school, gym, etc. It is 3:21 in the afternoon afterall.

Why do you care anyways? The BG thread where you belong is over there —-→

pot.6805:

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

If so, it may be the first time ever for them. Even during the last match between BG and SoR, where the score difference was the widest of all the 8 weeks of matches, SoR still only bottomed at 35 PPT during off-NA hours. That was before their Oce/Sea transfers.

covenn.7165:

pot.6805:

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

Kind of a broad statement and not applicable since most of the server is still doing normal daily activities like working, school, gym, etc. It is 3:21 in the afternoon afterall.

Why do you care anyways? The BG thread where you belong is over there —-->

This is a public forum, I can post anywhere I want. Nevermind the fact that you posted many times in the T1 thread when SoR was still in Tier 2. What is good for the goose is good for the gander right?

Obligatory “JQ sucks because they are winning!”

Just kidding, great match-up and good fights were had. Props to all three servers for making this a fun week.

All the kitten over JQ’s coverage needs to just stop.

Obsidian.1328:

EasymodeX.4062:

lettucemode.3789:

Obsidian.1328:

Lulz, what was up with that article?? It pretty much condones winning at all costs, even by cheating. By that logic we should get rid of all referee’s in all sports and just have it be a free-for-all. :/ If you were being sarcastic then I’ll ‘lol,’ but I couldn’t tell :P

You missed an important detail. The article says that you should use any tournament-legal move to win. Cheating in the form of hacks or kicking other players in the shins is obviously not legal in tournaments, nor is ignoring the referees/rules and having a free for all.

That’s one of the most important articles (if not the most important article) ever written about competing in games, please don’t dismiss it so lightly.

^

This. Most players that have been gaming a while would recognize the article in a heartbeat.

The bottom line is that you use what tools are available — if you are playing to win. If you’re not, don’t cry about losing.

Abusing culling is cheap? Use it.
Hiding Mesmers in a keep? Use it.
Turtle/stacking/zergballing? Use it.
Placing Trebs in unassailable positions? Use it.
Catapult AOE’ing through gates? Player AOE through walls? Use it.
Food buffs? Consumables? Use them.
Ninja golems? Of course.
Porting golems between zones (is this still possible)? Sounds like a plan*.

ANet will change whatever ANet feels like changing. If they “fix” or otherwise change those strategies … well, there will be new ones.

The article also mentions “real” cheating — breaking the game and community agreed-upon rules. In the context of GW2 and MMORPGs in general, this basically centers on hacking, jumping up walls, through geometry, spam bombing voice comms on other servers, etc. Those are ‘cheating’.

*Critically vulnerable to the kittenING QUEUE MONSTER, however.

Maybe I’m just old-fashioned, but I don’t only go by what ANet sets as rules for fairplay, or any other game-producer for that matter. There is such a thing as unspoken rules of conduct and sportsmanship that are above any written letter. This idea that you should do whatever they let you get away with is juvenile and corrupting.

As for your above examples, almost all of them seem ok because they either have counters, or are designed that way. I’m not saying I’m not guilty of abusing design flaws either, I’ve done my share. But I do feel guilty for doing it. Trying to use sound judgement and having a sliver of a sense of fairplay should never be considered weak or stupid. Heck, I’ll even start by stopping to use that ridiculous underwater pet-glitch that lets it rez you even if it’s supposed to be dead. I think we can all agree it’s not supposed to work that way.

Any takers?

Sportsmanship is a wonderful quality for players to have, but we weren’t talking about sportsmanship. We are talking about using all the tools available to you within the rules of the game (GW2 game engine) and the overarching tournament body (WvWvW community) to win. I take some offense that you would insinuate that some actions that operate entirely within these rules are “juvenile and corrupting”. Sportsmanship and playing to win are not mutually exclusive.

At the same time, we are not calling you “weak or stupid” for trying to divine the will of the designers and accounting for that in your play. You are simply playing the game with a different goal than EasymodeX and I. Both are equally valid (depending on the context).

Envi.2460:

Dark Revan.7634:

Envi.2460:

This thread has devolved into pointless bickering and nonsensical points and counterpoints. It needs more murderous psychotic pink haired anime women. For about 10 hours. Then maybe everyone will have calmed down.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI_fgwbmJg0

YUKI YUKI YUKI YUKI….why did you post this link! All I can hear is YUKI in my head now

Make sure to listen to all 10 hours. It gets amazing after about 3. Yuki yuki yuki yuki!!!! It might have to do with the fact i thought the anime was amazing.

Don’t tell me you actually listened to it for the whole 10 hours o.0
……you know what, challenge accepted! hope I can last and keep my sanity lol.

pot.6805:

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

I can’t speak for their server’s mentality but I can confirm they did hit 0 ppt numerous times including just as recently as 3 hours~ ago. I think it may be a combination of the match drawing to a close and the long hours taking a toll on some and some general population demoralization I think this morning we finally lost SoR garrison after holding it close to 25hrs~.

Woo, go JQ! This match-up seems like the best T1 has seen in a long time, and it’s really exciting to be watching from the (distant now T4) sidelines. I’m excited that despite all of the heavy opposition, JQ is still showing everyone why it has been a T1 server for as long as it has. Good show everyone, enjoy the good times while you can! Next week is going to throw everyone for a loop and end up with a lot of uncompetitive match-ups.

Ohai still trolling? Not surprised. You could always switch to another server, Ohai, if you want a ‘challenge’.

In before “your matchup thread is that way —-—→”. And to that I would say what pot said “This is a public forum etc”.

Right now, if accurate and it stands, the three tier one servers will be split up, one on T3, one T4 and one T5. If this happens the only chance we’ll have to face off again any time soon is to thoroughly crush the opposition to the point they rage-quit WvW and never return. We should completely demoralize and devastate any hopes and dreams they may have dared to consider having so we can soon meet again in T1 and have these lovely chats again.

Magiofdeath.2745:

Ohai still trolling? Not surprised. You could always switch to another server, Ohai, if you want a ‘challenge’.

In before “your matchup thread is that way —-—->”. And to that I would say what pot said “This is a public forum etc”.

Yes, he started back up once JQ took the lead.

On a side note, I thought you guys would pass TC this week but it looks like they are still very competitive and strong.

pot.6805:

covenn.7165:

pot.6805:

Has SoR completely given up? I’ve seen multiple screenshots of them at 0 ppt.

Kind of a broad statement and not applicable since most of the server is still doing normal daily activities like working, school, gym, etc. It is 3:21 in the afternoon afterall.

Why do you care anyways? The BG thread where you belong is over there —-->

This is a public forum, I can post anywhere I want. Nevermind the fact that you posted many times in the T1 thread when SoR was still in Tier 2. What is good for the goose is good for the gander right?

Sure, you can post anywhere you want. You are pretty transparent in your attempts to elicit negative responses though. I was just making sure to point that out clearly since you are a BG player

Xaaz.8472:

On a side note, I thought you guys would pass TC this week but it looks like they are still very competitive and strong.

TC has been making a great showing this week and are getting some excellent numbers into WvW. I think they were hungry for some actual 3 server WvW after what happened to SBI when they were in T2.

Nuked.2360:

some general population demoralization I think this morning we finally lost SoR garrison after holding it close to 25hrs~.

Possible. I know we had people that were unable to log in for a few hours yesterday during those hours. I suspect they were pretty demoralized by losing significant ground due to a cause beyond their control. Sadly, it even affected us last night prime time because we were fighting uphill the entire time trying to take back what we lost and they were fully upgraded

I’ve been enjoying TC – they are a very competent and great community (they aren’t super strange like most games’ RP communities). I am enjoying this matchup a lot. Overall, aside from the times I ran with HzH on JQ, I am enjoying tier 2 more than tier 1. Being on my guild’s server helps a lot with that too, even if we don’t wvw all that often.

I won’t lie, I actually called it an early night during EU prime (im NA prime – through oceanic prime into EU prime player), and actually slept for 4 hours. Thats the longest ive slept in one day since my days against Blackgate. >.>

Magiofdeath.2745:

I’ve been enjoying TC – they are a very competent and great community (they aren’t super strange like most games’ RP communities). I am enjoying this matchup a lot. Overall, aside from the times I ran with HzH on JQ, I am enjoying tier 2 more than tier 1. Being on my guild’s server helps a lot with that too, even if we don’t wvw all that often.

I’m the opposite. I came from TC to JQ a couple months back. I thought the RPers were funny but just too many of them for me They do have a respectful community.

I think JQ has an awesome community and quite frankly a (usually) very friendly WvW atmosphere. The commanders, for the most part, are top notch.