Guild Wars 2

katz.8376:

people come, fight for a while… some long, some short, but they inevitably… eventually… leave. i don’t know if it’s independent of seasons, because i haven’t actually been able to play in quite some time, but before i had to stop, there were no seasons yet, so i would say it’s possibly not related… or at least not strongly related.

i was about to say heck, if ya gonna merge us with anyone, merge us with Vabbi and FoW which were the two extreme-low pop EU servers… at least then we may still have low pop, but coverage of different time zones, but i just checked mos and am pleased to discover that Vabbi and FoW have actually moved up off the bottom. maybe someday ET will do the same thing again.

ah well. i will hopefully be returning to GW2 sometime soon… it’s been so long i’ll have to relearn how to play. O.o easy spikes on the fuchsia-haired Asura! ay yi yi. >.<

I don’t know, I feel that ET targets me – the Bifrost-wielding Asura with the braids!

I’m not talking about the casuals so much as the people that you would say “That person is part of our WvW community”, and then they change servers.

Rimmy.9217:

I don’t know, I feel that ET targets me – the Bifrost-wielding Asura with the braids!

heh. thanks for giving me a target for when i get back. >:-)

Rimmy.9217:

I’m not talking about the casuals so much as the people that you would say “That person is part of our WvW community”, and then they change servers.

i’m not talking about casuals either. we’ve had whole WvW focused guilds transfer here, and then leave again.

I’d rather they force (somehow) the top tiers to split up into the lower ones instead of just getting rid of servers.

Along side merging the servers, are you guys forgetting that if a person leave a server, they lose their bank guild (if they created one)? At least thats what I’ve been under the impression of (I could be wrong). They would have to some how compensate us players that lose out on personal guilds (heck any guild for that matter, unless they can just switch the guilds server, which I don’t think they can). At least if they ever merge before those ‘announced’ guild changes are released.

Rimmy.9217:

Did ET generally lose people when a season was announced, or does it bleed people independently of seasons? Or both? Because if it’s in response to seasons, it would be easy enough to only allow transfers down the chain and not up. Or lock them off entirely. People who want a different experience have eight months of the year to decide where they want to be.

It naturally bleed people like any other server… Unhappy people that never seen the server achieve a victory, or simply people that are playing alone on off-hours.

We also suffered many exoduses over the course of time, regardless of the seasons… [Mend] and [FKB] when the first free transfers to medium populated servers (HoD/FC/ET at the time) were open. Then we had [FoE] to come down, but the guild ended up dying here (idk the full story, I was playing SWTOR during that period). Then [BS] left, [IoM/DI] left afterwards, [AKD] left some time after, and when season 2 free transfers were announced we lost [BoM]. (We also had [Agg] at some point, but they hop servers a lot to go around killing people… So they don’t really count.)

In the ET matchup history, the server have seen victory 8 times after it’s great fall back in October 2012. That 20 months… So it’s somenthing around 80 matchups. (Yay to the 10% win rate)… Of course, it wouldn’t be a problem if we actually had competitive matchups instead of huge blowouts. The last competitive matchup we had was back in march (DR/EBay/ET), and it was a 2-way fight as EBay was 50k behind 2nd so it’s no bueno.

Ideally, we need 3 servers that are able to compete with each other in order to make a fun matchup… I won’t have the dude that log in the NA prime time and asks on TS: “Everytime I log we are high on PTT, but why we are always losing?” because the score will reflect and actual competition, and not that one server is steamrolling the other two or that one server simply rolled over and died. Even if we lose a competitive match people won’t get super demoralized because we were able to be close to victory… It will seen to be a tangible thing! However if I log in on Monday and I’m 30k behind, I can pretty much say the week is already decided and there is no reason to try (It would need overextended application to revert the score at that point, which end up in people getting burned out afterwards).

The problem is: How to achieve the ideal matchup, with such huge population imbalances? Please don’t come to me with “Forget the PPT and play for the fights”. I play WvW for the strategic feeling of having to capture/hold key objectives in order to win, and not just go around killing people…. I’m not the Deathmatch type player. I always prefered Battlegrounds (Principally Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin) over Arenas back in World of Warcraft.

skullmount.1758:

I’d rather they force (somehow) the top tiers to split up into the lower ones instead of just getting rid of servers.

Along side merging the servers, are you guys forgetting that if a person leave a server, they lose their bank guild (if they created one)? At least thats what I’ve been under the impression of (I could be wrong). They would have to some how compensate us players that lose out on personal guilds (heck any guild for that matter, unless they can just switch the guilds server, which I don’t think they can). At least if they ever merge before those ‘announced’ guild changes are released.

I’ve said that in jest before, that the top servers (any that can be accurately described as “stacked”) should be disbanded and their members scattered. But that’s not a cool thing to do.

As for losing guild upgrades yes, that may suck. But if you decide to move (and don’t live in a trailer) you don’t get to take your house with you anyway. Take all the furniture and everything that isn’t nailed down, but the house stays. It makes a certain amount of sense.

Since a personal guild probably wasn’t really what ANet had in mind for GW2, a guild being a group or an association, I doubt there will be any compensation. And if it’s a guild with members plural, who do you compensate, and with what?

Regardless, as I may have subtly indicated in previous posts, I’m against the idea of a merger. :-P

Jeknar.6184:

Ideally, we need 3 servers that are able to compete with each other in order to make a fun matchup… I won’t have the dude that log in the NA prime time and asks on TS: “Everytime I log we are high on PTT, but why we are always losing?” because the score will reflect and actual competition, and not that one server is steamrolling the other two or that one server simply rolled over and died. Even if we lose a competitive match people won’t get super demoralized because we were able to be close to victory… It will seen to be a tangible thing! However if I log in on Monday and I’m 30k behind, I can pretty much say the week is already decided and there is no reason to try (It would need overextended application to revert the score at that point, which end up in people getting burned out afterwards).

The problem is: How to achieve the ideal matchup, with such huge population imbalances? Please don’t come to me with “Forget the PPT and play for the fights”. I play WvW for the strategic feeling of having to capture/hold key objectives in order to win, and not just go around killing people…. I’m not the Deathmatch type player. I always prefered Battlegrounds (Principally Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin) over Arenas back in World of Warcraft.

Maybe with scaling map populations? An initial five are allowed on the map, and it stops you there until your opponents have enough people on to kick it up to ten people allowed, going up by fives (party size) from there?

Rimmy.9217:

skullmount.1758:

I’d rather they force (somehow) the top tiers to split up into the lower ones instead of just getting rid of servers.

Along side merging the servers, are you guys forgetting that if a person leave a server, they lose their bank guild (if they created one)? At least thats what I’ve been under the impression of (I could be wrong). They would have to some how compensate us players that lose out on personal guilds (heck any guild for that matter, unless they can just switch the guilds server, which I don’t think they can). At least if they ever merge before those ‘announced’ guild changes are released.

I’ve said that in jest before, that the top servers (any that can be accurately described as “stacked”) should be disbanded and their members scattered. But that’s not a cool thing to do.

As for losing guild upgrades yes, that may suck. But if you decide to move (and don’t live in a trailer) you don’t get to take your house with you anyway. Take all the furniture and everything that isn’t nailed down, but the house stays. It makes a certain amount of sense.

Since a personal guild probably wasn’t really what ANet had in mind for GW2, a guild being a group or an association, I doubt there will be any compensation. And if it’s a guild with members plural, who do you compensate, and with what?

Regardless, as I may have subtly indicated in previous posts, I’m against the idea of a merger. :-P

God this guy is so hateful of t1.
You should be hating stacked t1.5 sos for taking ur wvw force.

OK, off topic here, we’re moving the blobbing to posts now. Becoming hard to read and keep track of.

Side note:

The high tier people are angry because the low tier people are calling them “Unskilled 1 spammer blobers”

The low tier people are angry because the high tier people are calling them “Unskilled PvD’ers guard killers”

Stop acting like childs and let us have a decent discussion.

Jeknar.6184:

Side note:

The high tier people are angry because the low tier people are calling them “Unskilled 1 spammer blobers”

The low tier people are angry because the high tier people are calling them “Unskilled PvD’ers guard killers”

Stop acting like childs and let us have a decent discussion.

But… he started it!

Rimmy.9217:

Buffy.9246:

I don’t know why you are so kitten about this. Don’t need for long paragraphs since I didn’t even bother to read half. But whatever, have fun fighting the rare zergs servers can pull down there and npcs. I’ll have more fun fighting actually people whenever I want 2.

Fair enough. Have fun in your giant blobs 1 1 1 1 1ing your way to empyreal fragments.

Glass houses and all that.

People not currently on a given server don’t really get to say what that server is like, myself included.

But we also don’t need someone from a country with only two federal parties getting hysterical because people in countries with five federal parties don’t want to reduce down to what he’s used to. /analogy

Buffy.9246:

God this guy is so hateful of t1.
You should be hating stacked t1.5 sos for taking ur wvw force.

[/quote]

Not hateful, just don’t need their uninformed meddling. And I’ve got to think that you’d actually have got bored and wandered away from this thread long ago if my server name wasn’t in my sig and you didn’t have such a raging quaggan for us since the BP days.

SoS didn’t take our WvW force – some of our guilds went to SoS. They weren’t abducted. See the difference? Others went to FA, and still others went to TC. Dial down the bile.

Jeknar.6184:

Stop acting like childs and let us have a decent discussion.

There is NO decent discussion of this. It isn’t an “issue”. Honestly this thread should be deleted because all it is doing is allowing someone to direct hate towards the people on the lower population servers.

sirflamesword.3896:

Jeknar.6184:

Stop acting like childs and let us have a decent discussion.

There is NO decent discussion of this. It isn’t an “issue”. Honestly this thread should be deleted because all it is doing is allowing someone to direct hate towards the people on the lower population servers.

I think there’s room to discuss ET’s predicament and how to alleviate it in an acceptable manner, and thus build the mechanism by which it’s done in the future.

How about lock the top 3 servers of transfers. No one can move there now. Free transfers for lowest tier of servers.

I’d like to see free transfers to only the lowest ranked WvW server. When they get to rank 23, it’s another server that needs help anyway.

sirflamesword.3896:

Jeknar.6184:

Stop acting like childs and let us have a decent discussion.

There is NO decent discussion of this. It isn’t an “issue”. Honestly this thread should be deleted because all it is doing is allowing someone to direct hate towards the people on the lower population servers.

I would love to see you play, let’s say 1 month, on ET and repeat that it’s not a issue… WvW is dying and T8 is where you can see it more clearly… If left alone, all servers will start falling apart due the excessive lack of a decent wvw experience, from the bottom to the top. It might be only ET today, but who knows how many servers will be dying within the next months…

Jeknar.6184:

Iavra.8510:

People play on bottom tier servers, because they want to. I’ve played in T3 and i’ve played in T9 and i have to say i much prefer the latter one.

I would love to hear why…

Naturaly I can’t say anything on Lavra’s behalf.
But I can explain why I like being on small servers. and that was for pve and current for wvw:

I matter…

If there is few players- my contribution factor increases. . Our Zergs in wvw is usual around 10 players- not 100.
Its much more small skirmishes. where small unit teamwork matters and personal skill matters. When in a large zerg its all. a bunch of green text fighting another bunch of green text. i a massive cluster of effects-
It’s about large scale stacking versus. dynamic fights.

Jeknar.6184:

I would love to see you play, let’s say 1 month, on ET and repeat that it’s not a issue… WvW is dying and T8 is where you can see it more clearly… If left alone, all servers will start falling apart due the excessive lack of a decent wvw experience, from the bottom to the top. It might be only ET today, but who knows how many servers will be dying within the next months…

Transfer then! Holy crap, if you don’t like the gameplay there then why have you stayed? I’m guessing there ARE people who like playing on ET even if there aren’t a whole lot of people. Maybe I’m wrong, but I really doubt it.

sirflamesword.3896:

Transfer then! Holy crap, if you don’t like the gameplay there then why have you stayed? I’m guessing there ARE people who like playing on ET even if there aren’t a whole lot of people. Maybe I’m wrong, but I really doubt it.

i said it once, when we were stuck in glicko hell a year ago, and i’ll GLADLY say it again: transferring away from a “problem server” WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM… it will only make it worse. all of us who choose to stay on a T8 server would appreciate if people would stop flippantly saying “just transfer”.

Buffy.9246:

Rimmy.9217:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

Why are the these blobbers demanding that the lower tiered servers get merged? They’re not playing on or against them.

“Hey you! You’re not playing the way I want you to! ANet, destroy them!”

They are threatened and alarmed by good framerates and skills that aren’t on autoattack.

Their very way of life is threatened by people doing something else – be glad they don’t invade our servers and blob on our behalf.

Does anybody else, when they see videos from those servers, hear the South Park mob sound in their head?

Rabblerabblerabblerabblerabble

That’s not even the point.
There’s 2 many severs with no one to fill.
Look at vabbi before season 2, it had a score of 700 points. That meant their Zerg is 5 people.

Hey! I object to that.. our Zerg is often 10! I’ve even seen one of 20.-
But yes it’s a new thing- Megakittenup means man of us PvE’ers have started doing serious wvw time – At least this way we feel like the old Actual server. Still meet old friends- and have the nice quiet servers we had before the MS.

Point is: – we – do – not – want – full – servers -

Some level of balance on numbers would be nice- sure, Meeting those massive DE severs with 50+ in a zerg was not very fun. – and that remains a problem. the “outnumbered” just doesn’t mean anything vs high numbers.
Outnumbered does not mean carry extra supply- we mostly still need to run for extra supply when we take a keep.- Only so many supply available in a small group.
NPC- and structures are simply not designed to last more then a few seconds against that big a zerg.

katz.8376:

i said it once, when we were stuck in glicko hell a year ago, and i’ll GLADLY say it again: transferring away from a “problem server” WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM… it will only make it worse. all of us who choose to stay on a T8 server would appreciate if people would stop flippantly saying “just transfer”.

Merging the “problem servers” will not fix the problem, it will just ruin things for those of us that enjoy the smaller scale skirmishes.

There have been countless threads discussing the actual problems in WvW such as blobbing, downed state, low AoE limit, hard rezzing, PvD’ing, PPT system, no new maps after 2 years, etc.

Maybe if they fixed some of these problems instead of flat out ignoring WvW the population might actually start growing.

thaooo.5320:

But have fun with your entire 10-20 online players on each server across 4 entire maps, during a 6 hour window each day, and the NPC’s. Occasionally meeting an enemy, occasionally having a non NPC confrontation, PvDing during and outside the 6 hour window, taking what ever scraps come your way that day.

Dude, you’re spewing garbage. Take Darkhaven for example, we have a SEA dedicated guild that fields 20+, and then a pug zerg, and then bl defense, and then roamers. We don’t have 10-20 people online 6 hours a day… We have 30+ people online 24/7 (except certain times when coms don’t tag up, or very rarely in the transition from NA to Oceanic). Darkhaven easily breaks 100 players in all WvW maps during prime (40-50+ eb zerg, 1-2 guild groups daily, multiple havoc guilds, bl defenders etc…)… You’re another person that’s just spewing garbage, get a clue about reality before you start trying to force your opinions on this matter onto us.

First picture is JUST OUR EB FORCE during late NA on a week day (check the time in the mini map). Second picture is JUST OUR EB FORCE during oceanic (our weakest time with the lowest population) on a week day. Check the mini maps and count the green dots, you’re looking at 40+ on first pic and 20+ on second pic. We’re not as dead as you seem to think. To clarify, this isn’t our total wvw pop, not even close, during these times. We also have guild groups/havoc groups/roamers/bl defenders.

Anyone who says that T7 and T8 are deserted islands with nothing but a handful of people that rarely come across each other and only PvDoor clearly hasn’t been in T7 and T8.

I used to think like that. I was wrong. Back when Ehmry Bay was T4, a guild I used to be in transferred to Sorrow’s Furnace when it was T8. They still posted on our community forum on occasion, and that was when I saw screenshots of T8 zerg combat. Yes, there are zergs in T8. Now that Ehmry is T8, I can see that for myself. Zergs, guild groups, havoc groups, roamer groups, solo roamers. We have what most tiers of WvW have. Just because our zergs aren’t as ridiculously huge as upper tier zergs does not mean that fights do not exist in our tier.

I’ve been on Ehmry Bay throughout its WvW journey, from T5 to T3 to T8 and I can say that the fights in T8 are fun. There are plenty of fights, large and small. If T7 and T8 are as deserted as all you upper tier players say, then why do I encounter SoR and DH zergs on a daily basis?

Our meta is different from upper tier meta. That doesn’t mean we should be merged into the upper tier. Remember that each of these “servers” have formed a WvW community around their server name. Each WvW tier, and each WvW server, has something different to offer than the others, even if that difference is small; they are all unique and there’s much to experience from the communities of each server, and merging them is not as simple as you think it is.

Is merging low population servers technically possible?
What would the Impact & costs be to change this to satisfy an unknown # players?
What would the impact be to pvx players?
Is merging low population servers commercially interesting to Anet?

I can think of more questions but if you can answer these, you should work for Anet

Being restricted with having fights only on EBG sounds ludicrously boring. Guilds go out of their way to avoid that map in T1. Pretty sure most guilds in T2 and T3 prefer the borderlands too.

Reverence.6915:

Being restricted with having fights only on EBG sounds ludicrously boring. Guilds go out of their way to avoid that map in T1. Pretty sure most guilds in T2 and T3 prefer the borderlands too.

Yeah but in Tumbleweed8 it’s the only map with players on it. At certain hours of the day.

Reverence.6915:

Being restricted with having fights only on EBG sounds ludicrously boring. Guilds go out of their way to avoid that map in T1. Pretty sure most guilds in T2 and T3 prefer the borderlands too.

That’s your opinion, and we’ve all already said that EB is focused on but we also maphop to BLs with our EB zergs. Bronze servers that have guild groups generally also have those groups hitting bls not eb.

Eredon Terrace points breakdown for this almost finished match:

Borderlands – Percent

Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 62.1%
Eternal Battleground – 25.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 8.5%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 3.7%
_________________
Anvil Rock:

Borderlands – Percent

Anvil Rock Borderlands – 48.3%
Eternal Battleground – 41.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 5.2%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 4.8%
_________________
Kaineng

Borderlands – Percent

Kaineng Borderlands – 48.9%
Eternal Battleground – 36.4%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 9.2%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 5.5%
_______________
T8 % on enemy borderlands is 4-8% with 9% as an outlier.

T1 % on enemy borderlands is 10-15% with 17% as an outlier.

Even with pretty constant 24/7 coverage on all 3 T1 servers, they manage to hold enemy structures. T1 blobs can also melt gates with basic attacks, making it significantly harder to defend.

Tumbleweed8 has coverage gaps where it is possible to hold enemy structures for hours on end, meaning the enemy BL points should be much higher. Even if there is an attack/defence scenario, defending is much easier since the attacker can’t simply melt a gate by PvD.

Yeah, T8 is tumbleweed.

Because God forbid creating fortifications that are easier to defend, right? That’s the point of fortifications like towers, keeps, and castles. They’re supposed to be significantly hard to take. Not bashing T1/2 gameplay, just pointing out the futility of defense given what you said about zergs melting gates easily.

If being able to melt through a fortified position with ease and without the need for siege weaponry, essentially making the walls and defensive siege useless, is what you would call optimal “siege” gameplay, than Anet might as well remove the walls and gates from objectives and just keep the lord’s room.

I prefer my long, drawn-out keep sieges, where it almost always takes careful planning and strategy (not saying upper tiers don’t; I’m sure they do, but we don’t have blobs melting gates with PvDoor) to take objectives, instead of rolling with a blob and melting through keeps as if they didn’t have any walls. It’s great fun fighting a determined group of defenders/attackers in and around a keep, repelling an attack on the gates using arrow carts, probing for weaknesses and bringing down walls with catas and trebs, and especially frantic battles in the Lord’s room.

Like I said earlier, even if our zergs aren’t as big as your megablobs, and even if the action in T7/T8 isn’t 24/7, that does not mean our tiers are tumbleweed, deserted, PvDoor, or the other negative connotations you assume Bronze servers to be. Those percentages are all lower than upper tiers, obviously, because Bronze matches are smaller in overall scale. That doesn’t mean we’re not getting enough player vs player fights. That doesn’t mean we’re not having fun. And it most definitely does not justify any server merger.

Across different WvW tiers, yes, there are coverage differences. Yes, the zergs are of varying sizes. But at the end of the day, I log in, I have my fair share of fights and bags, and I have fun, regardless of tier. The argument that servers below T2 aren’t having the “optimal” amount of fun that WvW can offer is ludicrous.

Can’t we just accept that every tier can be fun to play in?! I know every tier I’ve played in has been fun. I don’t understand why upper tier players have to talk down lower tier players saying that “they aren’t having as much fun as we are,” and vice versa: lower tier players dismissing higher tiers as 24/7 laggy zergblobs. In any case, NO to server merging the lower tiers, and NO to that other idea of breaking the Gold servers and distributing them to the lower tiers. Bad ideas, both of them.

thaooo.5320:

Eredon Terrace points breakdown for this almost finished match:

Borderlands – Percent

Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 62.1%
Eternal Battleground – 25.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 8.5%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 3.7%
_________________
Anvil Rock:

Borderlands – Percent

Anvil Rock Borderlands – 48.3%
Eternal Battleground – 41.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 5.2%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 4.8%
_________________
Kaineng

Borderlands – Percent

Kaineng Borderlands – 48.9%
Eternal Battleground – 36.4%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 9.2%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 5.5%
_______________
T8 % on enemy borderlands is 4-8% with 9% as an outlier.

T1 % on enemy borderlands is 10-15% with 17% as an outlier.

Even with pretty constant 24/7 coverage on all 3 T1 servers, they manage to hold enemy structures. T1 blobs can also melt gates with basic attacks, making it significantly harder to defend.

Tumbleweed8 has coverage gaps where it is possible to hold enemy structures for hours on end, meaning the enemy BL points should be much higher. Even if there is an attack/defence scenario, defending is much easier since the attacker can’t simply melt a gate by PvD.

Yeah, T8 is tumbleweed.

You’re only giving the example of T8. In T7, literally as I speak, we’re flipping each other’s keeps/towers in bls/eb and retaking them back and forth with 15+ groups.

thaooo.5320:

T1 blobs can also melt gates with basic attacks, making it significantly harder to defend.

Oh man that sounds like so much fun!! Forgive me I was wrong, being able to auto attack a door sounds way better than the smaller scale fighting we get on our servers. Clearly bigger blob = more skill….

Rimmy.9217:

skullmount.1758:

I’d rather they force (somehow) the top tiers to split up into the lower ones instead of just getting rid of servers.

Along side merging the servers, are you guys forgetting that if a person leave a server, they lose their bank guild (if they created one)? At least thats what I’ve been under the impression of (I could be wrong). They would have to some how compensate us players that lose out on personal guilds (heck any guild for that matter, unless they can just switch the guilds server, which I don’t think they can). At least if they ever merge before those ‘announced’ guild changes are released.

I’ve said that in jest before, that the top servers (any that can be accurately described as “stacked”) should be disbanded and their members scattered. But that’s not a cool thing to do.

As for losing guild upgrades yes, that may suck. But if you decide to move (and don’t live in a trailer) you don’t get to take your house with you anyway. Take all the furniture and everything that isn’t nailed down, but the house stays. It makes a certain amount of sense.

Since a personal guild probably wasn’t really what ANet had in mind for GW2, a guild being a group or an association, I doubt there will be any compensation. And if it’s a guild with members plural, who do you compensate, and with what?

Regardless, as I may have subtly indicated in previous posts, I’m against the idea of a merger. :-P

I don’t want to them to completely get rid of the top servers, I just want them to put kind of incentive/force some of the players on the top servers to move down to some of the bronze. Even out the population between the tiers, not just get rid of tiers.

A guild of one is still a guild. Those of us with personal bank guilds have put time/gold into getting the upgrades. And it doesn’t really matter if its personal or not, if they disband/merge the lower thats still a ton of guilds that will have to be recreated. The amount of stink that would raise would be pretty high, unless they compensate somehow (like send guild leaders the influence items to at least build all the upgrades they had, not necessarily the excess influence) or can just switch the server guild is on in their database (I would think they could do this. Seems like this would just be a column in their database).

Jim Hunter.6821:

katz.8376:

i said it once, when we were stuck in glicko hell a year ago, and i’ll GLADLY say it again: transferring away from a "problem server" WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM... it will only make it worse. all of us who choose to stay on a T8 server would appreciate if people would stop flippantly saying "just transfer".

Merging the "problem servers" will not fix the problem, it will just ruin things for those of us that enjoy the smaller scale skirmishes.

There have been countless threads discussing the actual problems in WvW such as blobbing, downed state, low AoE limit, hard rezzing, PvD’ing, PPT system, no new maps after 2 years, etc.

Maybe if they fixed some of these problems instead of flat out ignoring WvW the population might actually start growing.

technically i haven’t said i was for a merger either. i said if we’re going to merge, merge us with the low pop EU servers to fill in coverage gaps, not another NA server.

as for "what it’s really like" down in T8... Jeknar, has it gone back to being as bad as it was a year ago, when i got that screencap of the entirety of ET’s WvW force from all 4 battlefields at primetime on a friday afternoon... all 17 of us? i can always throw that screenie back up here again. actually getting a zerg (A zerg. singular, as in, only on one BL) rolling of 20+ and still having some left over for scout/camp/enemy harassment was a cause for celebration.

katz.8376:

Jim Hunter.6821:

katz.8376:

i said it once, when we were stuck in glicko hell a year ago, and i’ll GLADLY say it again: transferring away from a “problem server” WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM… it will only make it worse. all of us who choose to stay on a T8 server would appreciate if people would stop flippantly saying “just transfer”.

Merging the “problem servers” will not fix the problem, it will just ruin things for those of us that enjoy the smaller scale skirmishes.

There have been countless threads discussing the actual problems in WvW such as blobbing, downed state, low AoE limit, hard rezzing, PvD’ing, PPT system, no new maps after 2 years, etc.

Maybe if they fixed some of these problems instead of flat out ignoring WvW the population might actually start growing.

technically i haven’t said i was for a merger either. i said if we’re going to merge, merge us with the low pop EU servers to fill in coverage gaps, not another NA server.

as for “what it’s really like” down in T8… Jeknar, has it gone back to being as bad as it was a year ago, when i got that screencap of the entirety of ET’s WvW force from all 4 battlefields at primetime on a friday afternoon… all 17 of us? i can always throw that screenie back up here again. actually getting a zerg (A zerg. singular, as in, only on one BL) rolling of 20+ and still having some left over for scout/camp/enemy harassment was a cause for celebration.

No it’s not that bad lol. Even ET hits 30+ during prime. Don’t SVRN and EoH each run 15+ alone? Let alone pugs? Think those are the numbers jeknar gave me anyways.

They could just do a forced automatic server re-balance by evenly placing players throughout all the servers and capping them to prevent bandwagon re-stacking. There would be much rage/QQ but it would ultimately would fix the issue about coverage.

Reverence.6915:

Arius.7031:

Blix.8021:

Deli.1302:

renmei.3102:

Welcome to NA Tier 1 where each map is queued and during NA prime time map blobs are everywhe-… oh wait :o

Post season, low turnout from people taking a break after the amount of overtime put in last week.

Wasn’t any different during seasons. We had unqueued maps the very first week a few hours after the first reset. Given that any of the tier 1 servers still absolutely rolls over tier 2, despite the decline in population, I can’t imagine how barren and boring it is in the lowest tiers.

Pic from about 9:40pm server time. This doesn’t include our guild groups, our BL defense group, or our various havoc squads.

Just… stop. If lower tier servers consistently had that kind of turn out, they’d be in tier 3-4, not 6-8

Lower tier servers lack coverage, but they aren’t dead during prime time. They have enough people to have plenty of action during prime times on at least one map. Do they compare to higher tier numbers? No. But there is a misconception from higher tiers that lower tiers are dead and that is only true of some maps and off hours, but not WvW as a whole when most people play.

thaooo.5320:

Eredon Terrace points breakdown for this almost finished match:

Borderlands – Percent

Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 62.1%
Eternal Battleground – 25.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 8.5%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 3.7%
_________________
Anvil Rock:

Borderlands – Percent

Anvil Rock Borderlands – 48.3%
Eternal Battleground – 41.7%
Kaineng Borderlands – 5.2%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 4.8%
_________________
Kaineng

Borderlands – Percent

Kaineng Borderlands – 48.9%
Eternal Battleground – 36.4%
Eredon Terrace Borderlands – 9.2%
Anvil Rock Borderlands – 5.5%
_______________
T8 % on enemy borderlands is 4-8% with 9% as an outlier.

T1 % on enemy borderlands is 10-15% with 17% as an outlier.

Even with pretty constant 24/7 coverage on all 3 T1 servers, they manage to hold enemy structures. T1 blobs can also melt gates with basic attacks, making it significantly harder to defend.

Tumbleweed8 has coverage gaps where it is possible to hold enemy structures for hours on end, meaning the enemy BL points should be much higher. Even if there is an attack/defence scenario, defending is much easier since the attacker can’t simply melt a gate by PvD.

Yeah, T8 is tumbleweed.

Unsurprising that you can’t take numbers and match them with what they represent, based on your previous posts.

All the numbers show is that by comparison T1 servers can’t defend anywhere near as well as lower tier servers. Because, obviously blobs just constantly run from one place to the next as quickly as possible so their members don’t get bored and log off in despair.

For everybody else reading the thread who can get past the sarcasm without going all Angry German Kid at it, home BL defense tends to be a priority in lower tier servers, and it works better than you may be used to. EBG is the most fluid of maps, often because it’s the first place that PUGs go to (on all sides) with Stonemist as the focal point. That should seem familiar to literally anybody who as ever WvWed.

Guild groups tend to focus on the BLs, since that’s where the real challenges tend to be – the balance tips toward the defenders and people tend to respond when there is a call to come back to home to defend, especially upgraded structures.

I know, it’s an aberration that must be stamped out. Forgive us our heresy.

While I did agree with merging back in the day, with megaservers I don’t feel hindered. I think the problem in WvW is you lose, players don’t like to lose. Ideally you should have a 66% chance to lose, if population and skill levels are properly balanced. Most players don’t want that. They want a 66-100% win chance in their favor, they stack servers, they win, yay internet points. Merging won’t stop that attitude, in fact there would be a hellish explosion of rage this game has never seen. People screaming for gem refunds from transfers, or how Anet ruined their servers community.

I’m on EB. I have been since the early release. I’ve seen EB top, mid, and now bottom. I take a lot of breaks in between. I like bottom, because I have to pick up my game, I need too. I have to pull more weight. EB has given me so many great fights.

Before (or during) the mass exodus, I remember holding our last tower with a commander who has long ago left us (actually he quit I think), and I remember it was around 12 of us on arrow carts, against a zerg of 40+. Our commander sat in TS encouraging us to hold. The walls went down, they rushed, we pushed them back. This repeated till they portal bombed us, which I remember was right on top of my ac. Cry havoc and let the arrow cart fly, we all targeted the spot. I was downed, my arrow cart destroyed, but I held and fired as long as I could. We wiped them. We kept the last tower. And I was the only causality. My fellows lifted me and all rejoiced. We had won. The last tower was ours. We broke the train.

That’s my favorite WvW story, and maybe not unique or uncommon, but that’s my server, that’s EB. You have 40 and we have 12? We will hold. We don’t always have the numbers, but we have teeth. If we can’t take you head on, we’ll nip at your heels. If you take our stuff, we’ll take yours. Some of us would die where we stand rather then give an inch. It seems a lot of us strive for the fight and not the win. It’s lovely.

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Dano.5298:

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Which is why, here and there throughout the trolling, there have been suggestions and questions about what to do. What mechanisms to implement that focus on the bottom server so it’s not stuck in Glicko hell permanently.

It seems like lots of little things, rather than sweeping clumsy ones, are the way to go. It can’t erase past frustration, but might tilt things in the right direction.

You guys on ET are probably the ones who can hammer together a list of the suggestions that would work – both for you and for future servers that hit 24. You listed four above, are they any more?

Arius.7031:

katz.8376:

technically i haven’t said i was for a merger either. i said if we’re going to merge, merge us with the low pop EU servers to fill in coverage gaps, not another NA server.

as for “what it’s really like” down in T8… Jeknar, has it gone back to being as bad as it was a year ago, when i got that screencap of the entirety of ET’s WvW force from all 4 battlefields at primetime on a friday afternoon… all 17 of us? i can always throw that screenie back up here again. actually getting a zerg (A zerg. singular, as in, only on one BL) rolling of 20+ and still having some left over for scout/camp/enemy harassment was a cause for celebration.

No it’s not that bad lol. Even ET hits 30+ during prime. Don’t SVRN and EoH each run 15+ alone? Let alone pugs? Think those are the numbers jeknar gave me anyways.

Yeah, it’s not terrible as old T8. During 2-3 hours per day we can get somenthing around 50 players… After that our structures fall, but no one is there to hear it. Do they make a sound?

If it bothers you so much Jeknar that you don’t have enough people to run with for your preferred style of play, in that you have to cry about it everyday, why don’t you move? Is it the cost?

Jeknar.6184:

Arius.7031:

katz.8376:

technically i haven’t said i was for a merger either. i said if we’re going to merge, merge us with the low pop EU servers to fill in coverage gaps, not another NA server.

as for “what it’s really like” down in T8… Jeknar, has it gone back to being as bad as it was a year ago, when i got that screencap of the entirety of ET’s WvW force from all 4 battlefields at primetime on a friday afternoon… all 17 of us? i can always throw that screenie back up here again. actually getting a zerg (A zerg. singular, as in, only on one BL) rolling of 20+ and still having some left over for scout/camp/enemy harassment was a cause for celebration.

No it’s not that bad lol. Even ET hits 30+ during prime. Don’t SVRN and EoH each run 15+ alone? Let alone pugs? Think those are the numbers jeknar gave me anyways.

Yeah, it’s not terrible as old T8 during 2-3 hours per day when we can get somenthing around 50 players… After that our structures fall, but no one is there to hear it. Do they make a sound?

Dano.5298:

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Nobody is suggesting nothing be done to help ET. We’re saying that a knee-jerk reaction solution like server merging is not the best option available. It’s an extreme option that should only be used as a last resort. Myself and others have suggested plenty of ways to help ET (and other t8 servers in specific) gain some population with any luck (free tansfers for t8 for example, permanently). That said, if those don’t work then more extreme measures may be considered, and then and ONLY then will I be arguing nothing more should be done for ET. The sad fact is, in a fairly sandbox mode, some people/groups will be less fortunate/successful than others. I don’t want my server to got through drastic changes because SOME people on ONE server in gw2 are discontent with WvW atm.

Darius.1430:

If it bothers you so much Jeknar that you don’t have enough people to run with for your preferred style of play, in that you have to cry about it everyday, why don’t you move? Is it the cost?

it could be free, and i wouldn’t leave. quit telling people to do so.

Jeknar came down from a much higher tier server (blackgate, wasn’t it?) and he’s stuck it through for over a year. he could leave if he wanted to, i’m sure… but i for one am glad he hasn’t. if he sounds bitter, there’s a darn good reason, and telling him to, in effect, “get lost” doesn’t help matters

katz.8376:

Darius.1430:

If it bothers you so much Jeknar that you don’t have enough people to run with for your preferred style of play, in that you have to cry about it everyday, why don’t you move? Is it the cost?

it could be free, and i wouldn’t leave. quit telling people to do so.

Jeknar came down from a much higher tier server (blackgate, wasn’t it?) and he’s stuck it through for over a year. he could leave if he wanted to, i’m sure… but i for one am glad he hasn’t. if he sounds bitter, there’s a darn good reason, and telling him to, in effect, “get lost” doesn’t help matters

:o. But jeknar was on Dh just a couple months ago. There are still blood stains from when someone ordered fortify on a tower he was upgrading. He went Blackgate → Eredon Terrace → Maguuma → Darkhaven → Eredon Terrace according to the biography I have of him. It should be noted, while on Dh, he always missed ET and talked about how much he wanted to be back with you guys, so be nice to him!

I think the guy was just trying to say that, basically, if you’re miserable somewhere transferring is an option. Better to leave your home server than to quit the game, no?

bah. i’ve taken an extended forced vacation. i didn’t know he left and came back >.<

welcome back Jeknar. XD

katz.8376:

Darius.1430:

If it bothers you so much Jeknar that you don’t have enough people to run with for your preferred style of play, in that you have to cry about it everyday, why don’t you move? Is it the cost?

it could be free, and i wouldn’t leave. quit telling people to do so.

Jeknar came down from a much higher tier server (blackgate, wasn’t it?) and he’s stuck it through for over a year. he could leave if he wanted to, i’m sure… but i for one am glad he hasn’t. if he sounds bitter, there’s a darn good reason, and telling him to, in effect, “get lost” doesn’t help matters

In fact, I’ve been out of ET for 2 months… I transferred out to Maguuma along with BS. Due BS disbanding (The Maguuma part only), I got myself stuck alone on a server that doesn’t fit my playstyle. I should have expected that the moment I transferred (I was even hesitant in doing it but I was so fed up of the ET situation, to not mention my constant attrition with IoM/DI, that it sounded too good to refuse).

1 month on Magswag, I farmed my way out… I was invited to join Darkhaven (one of the few servers where I still have active contacts), but even there I didn’t quite fit in… In fact, the pugs over there hate me because I don’t go around golem rushing stuff and because I like playing defense (the boring sieging/upgrading part) more than offense (zergbusting and long-drawn keep attacks).

When the free transfer openned, some of my friends back in ET started to try convince me to come back… I knew I was going to get unto the hell-hole again, but hey at least I would be able to play with my friends right? Wrong (¬¬’)… Most of them got fed up and quit during season 2. Now I’m stuck again on the same situation I was before…

Now to answer Darius question: Yes, the cost in my major issue… Its worse because I have 3 guildmates to carry with me. They don’t have as much time as I do to play this game, so they can’t afford moving without getting entirely broken (I’m sure one of them don’t even have enough gold to move). So, for me, it’s either farm 600g (If the gems price don’t go even higher) or try to find a solution to current ET situation… Actually I find the second better as it is not a solution for me alone. But if you think the first is better, feel free to help me up

Jeknar.6184:

1 month on Magswag, I farmed my way out… I was invited to join Darkhaven (one of the few servers where I still have active contacts), but even there I didn’t quite fit in… In fact, the pugs over there hate me because I don’t go around golem rushing stuff and because I like playing defense (the boring sieging/upgrading part) more than offense (zergbusting and long-drawn keep attacks).

Please, we both know you love offense. Jeknar #1 trebber bronze.

Arius.7031:

Dano.5298:

Jeknar is absolutely right. ET has been bailing out gw2 WvW by trying as hard as we do. If we die than WvW can crumble! You can’t just ignore a server and say, “sorry, but don’t mess with my server.” I’d hope that you can see that competition needs to have parody and as its set up, there are very few reasons to play on ET for most people.

There’s a lot we can do though:

1) Hope that people want parody and stop ktraining when servers lack coverage (I know, I know)

2) Lower tiered servers get transfers

3) change the ppt system so that competition matters.

4) make WvW megaserver’d for 4-5 hours during the “dead” time

One thing is for sure though: (Please believe me!!)

ET is hamstrung due to terrible number discrepancies. It’s not that noone tags up or we lack strategy… there’s just noone on!

I feel like gw2 has been very lucky to have who ET has… We’ve basically been your (every other server’s) punching bag for the past several months. Is it really hard to believe that the competitive lot of us are maybe getting tired of it?

Nobody is suggesting nothing be done to help ET. We’re saying that a knee-jerk reaction solution like server merging is not the best option available. It’s an extreme option that should only be used as a last resort. Myself and others have suggested plenty of ways to help ET (and other t8 servers in specific) gain some population with any luck (free tansfers for t8 for example, permanently). That said, if those don’t work then more extreme measures may be considered, and then and ONLY then will I be arguing nothing more should be done for ET. The sad fact is, in a fairly sandbox mode, some people/groups will be less fortunate/successful than others. I don’t want my server to got through drastic changes because SOME people on ONE server in gw2 are discontent with WvW atm.

I appreciated what you are saying and I’m very glad the majority of servers are content with their status. I hate the idea of a guild bailing on any server to help us which is why I’m very focused on trying to get new players into WvW.

The only thing I disagree with is you kinda missed my point I think. I mean no disrespect but servers aren’t disconnected in the way you describe. ET goes down any further than it has, the whole system will be drastically worse off. If the try hards of ET finally get fed up, then the next to “worse” server becomes the next ET and so on.

It will be no fun for Ebay, Kain, AR etc to play us which will expedite the WvW collapse by incentivizing people on those servers to move somewhere where there is actually a 1v1v1 component and fights.

If any server is down for too long, your server, no matter where you are will fall too.

I’m not advocating for a server merge, but peeps gotta realize WvW as a whole is a community.. its not just on a server wide basis. This is why to me, the WvW community as a whole needs to look down on guilds transferring away from low pop servers and commend those like Svrn who did the opposite.

Maybe thats too theoretical, which I grant you, but its frustrating to me that people just disregard ET and think everything will be fine for them if ET falls any further. Lastly I’ll add, the more balance we have the more players we will keep in WvW as it will actually be fun for new players and keep experienced players involved.

Itt Asura conditions thief’s and pu Mesmer roamers beat people with team oriented builds and claim they are ‘no skill zerglings’.