Guild Wars 2

Swagger.1459:

Diku, do you know what NATO is?

Is this a trick question?

They’re like the Mall Cops of the World because they’re thrown together & expected to perform like a well established military power from a single country?

At least that’ s what I think, but I’m sure they’re highly professional soldiers of combat.

It’s their thrown together aspect & different chains of command that tie back to a well established military power from a single country that muddies the water for them.

It’s kind of like EotM actually when viewed this way. Balance of power is still dictated by their single country that can pull the plug on their soldier’s participation. Each single country wears the pants when it comes to their soldier’s involvement from what I understand. I might be wrong though…so you might want to check that.

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Nope, it’s called selfish desires behind a “reasonable opinion”, just like politicians are doing it..
He doesn’t care about NA as he’s not playing there, so if he can secure EUs server with this idea, he’s all for it. Same as me.
But in general, it’s a bad idea.
What you could do is let old wvw there while opening up your new Glorious Megaserver WvW, then let the players decide in which they want to play. That’s something called “learning and making things better”… You know, giving players freedom, not taking away choices.

Again, that wasn’t my idea. I just happen to think jayne’s idea bears some merit.

’Cos your idea is to remove every servers to change them into your preferred Megaserver system. How is that really different?

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Even JAYNE likes the idea of implementing and testing out megaserver…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Mega-server-for-NA-regular-servers-for-EU

As long as you don’t touch the EU servers, do whatever you want.
Yes, I’m selfish.

You’ll have to take that discussion up with Jayne my friend…

Why? He says that Mega for NA, normal for EU, we are in agreement. You want Mega for EU.

I’m all for ideas and testing ideas that move that will improve the game for the long run. I fully agree with Jayne’s mentality and thought process behind these issues.

You only agree because it aligns with what you have been trying to push. You still fail to make competent counter points that have been presented in this thread and others against your holy grail of ideas. Jayne presented an idea that would keep the poison of your idea out of their realm of play.

I agree because it’s a good way of looking at things from opposites sides of the pond. It’s called compromise and idea sharing… learning and making things better… testing and analyzing the results…

Nope, it’s called selfish desires behind a “reasonable opinion”, just like politicians are doing it..
He doesn’t care about NA as he’s not playing there, so if he can secure EUs server with this idea, he’s all for it. Same as me.
But in general, it’s a bad idea.
What you could do is let old wvw there while opening up your new Glorious Megaserver WvW, then let the players decide in which they want to play. That’s something called “learning and making things better”… You know, giving players freedom, not taking away choices.

Again, that wasn’t my idea. I just happen to think jayne’s idea bears some merit.

Really? If you want to implement that idea it’s called jacked up from where I stand. I’ve been on the same server since launch. The accounts that my wife and daughter have played on has been on the same server since they where created. We know who is a good scout and who is a tag with our interest in mind. You still have yet to make an argument for us to transfer to EU to have what we have now. Feel free to gloss over what you don’t want to hear to promote your idea. I have a few words for that but some forum goers like to report post that hurt their feelings.

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Even JAYNE likes the idea of implementing and testing out megaserver…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Mega-server-for-NA-regular-servers-for-EU

As long as you don’t touch the EU servers, do whatever you want.
Yes, I’m selfish.

You’ll have to take that discussion up with Jayne my friend…

Why? He says that Mega for NA, normal for EU, we are in agreement. You want Mega for EU.

I’m all for ideas and testing ideas that move that will improve the game for the long run. I fully agree with Jayne’s mentality and thought process behind these issues.

You only agree because it aligns with what you have been trying to push. You still fail to make competent counter points that have been presented in this thread and others against your holy grail of ideas. Jayne presented an idea that would keep the poison of your idea out of their realm of play.

I agree because it’s a good way of looking at things from opposites sides of the pond. It’s called compromise and idea sharing… learning and making things better… testing and analyzing the results…

See, someone like jayne and I, bubi and I, diku and I… all see problems. We are just looking at different sets of problems. Slowly, though, we are all coming together like a true team.

Never said there where no problems with the current iteration of WvW bud. What I have stated is that I don’t like your solutions.

You are entitled to disagree.

Umm…please don’t lump me into your discussion.

I am not on your Team.

I really do not approve of what you are doing again.

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Even JAYNE likes the idea of implementing and testing out megaserver…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Mega-server-for-NA-regular-servers-for-EU

As long as you don’t touch the EU servers, do whatever you want.
Yes, I’m selfish.

You’ll have to take that discussion up with Jayne my friend…

Why? He says that Mega for NA, normal for EU, we are in agreement. You want Mega for EU.

I’m all for ideas and testing ideas that move that will improve the game for the long run. I fully agree with Jayne’s mentality and thought process behind these issues.

You only agree because it aligns with what you have been trying to push. You still fail to make competent counter points that have been presented in this thread and others against your holy grail of ideas. Jayne presented an idea that would keep the poison of your idea out of their realm of play.

I agree because it’s a good way of looking at things from opposites sides of the pond. It’s called compromise and idea sharing… learning and making things better… testing and analyzing the results…

Nope, it’s called selfish desires behind a “reasonable opinion”, just like politicians are doing it..
He doesn’t care about NA as he’s not playing there, so if he can secure EUs server with this idea, he’s all for it. Same as me.
But in general, it’s a bad idea.
What you could do is let old wvw there while opening up your new Glorious Megaserver WvW, then let the players decide in which they want to play. That’s something called “learning and making things better”… You know, giving players freedom, not taking away choices.

Again, that wasn’t my idea. I just happen to think jayne’s idea bears some merit.

Really? If you want to implement that idea it’s called jacked up from where I stand. I’ve been on the same server since launch. The accounts that my wife and daughter have played on has been on the same server since they where created. We know who is a good scout and who is a tag with our interest in mind. You still have yet to make an argument for us to transfer to EU to have what we have now. Feel free to gloss over what you don’t want to hear to promote your idea. I have a few words for that but some forum goers like to report post that hurt their feelings.

No you’re absolutely right. Nobody should be displaced. It’s not fair.

I just got tired of having the same stupid argument over and over that I came up with that idea.

Somewhere Mr. Kuru is nodding his head and saying “I told you so.” lol .

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

You have a very valid point.

Megaserver is being touted as the big fix to WvW.

I will not debate you on this point.

---

@WvW Community,

We should not encourage others to debate on which solution is better.

We should encourage other Players that share a desire for a Server Based Solution to step forward & tell ANet we want a Server Based Solution.

ANet is totally convinced that Megaserver is the solution based on my observations & opinion.

We understand that ANet has ignored us time & again.

We should at least voice our choice before this Megaserver solution is un-veiled.

We should at least offer the best Server Based Solution that can to fix this current Population Stacking, Can’t play with Friends, and Off Peak capping mess that we’re in.

Please rally behind a Server Based Solution to let ANet realize that Server Pride…If properly fixed…can create a Strong Sense of Community which is the backbone behind many Good & Hard Fought Rivalries imho.

Your truly,
Diku

Think this deserves re-posting.

@Jayne

Did you get a chance to see my other Topic thread?

Reboot the Base Map Mechanic & Population

Read the first post…it’s been heavily modified since being 1st posted as an alternative solution to our Current Problems in WvW.

It’s not perfect, but at least it allows players to go where the fun is without sacrificing Server Pride & Team Identity.

Jayne.9251:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

bloodletting wolf.2837:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Bubi.5237:

Swagger.1459:

Even JAYNE likes the idea of implementing and testing out megaserver…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Mega-server-for-NA-regular-servers-for-EU

As long as you don’t touch the EU servers, do whatever you want.
Yes, I’m selfish.

You’ll have to take that discussion up with Jayne my friend…

Why? He says that Mega for NA, normal for EU, we are in agreement. You want Mega for EU.

I’m all for ideas and testing ideas that move that will improve the game for the long run. I fully agree with Jayne’s mentality and thought process behind these issues.

You only agree because it aligns with what you have been trying to push. You still fail to make competent counter points that have been presented in this thread and others against your holy grail of ideas. Jayne presented an idea that would keep the poison of your idea out of their realm of play.

I agree because it’s a good way of looking at things from opposites sides of the pond. It’s called compromise and idea sharing… learning and making things better… testing and analyzing the results…

Nope, it’s called selfish desires behind a “reasonable opinion”, just like politicians are doing it..
He doesn’t care about NA as he’s not playing there, so if he can secure EUs server with this idea, he’s all for it. Same as me.
But in general, it’s a bad idea.
What you could do is let old wvw there while opening up your new Glorious Megaserver WvW, then let the players decide in which they want to play. That’s something called “learning and making things better”… You know, giving players freedom, not taking away choices.

Again, that wasn’t my idea. I just happen to think jayne’s idea bears some merit.

Really? If you want to implement that idea it’s called jacked up from where I stand. I’ve been on the same server since launch. The accounts that my wife and daughter have played on has been on the same server since they where created. We know who is a good scout and who is a tag with our interest in mind. You still have yet to make an argument for us to transfer to EU to have what we have now. Feel free to gloss over what you don’t want to hear to promote your idea. I have a few words for that but some forum goers like to report post that hurt their feelings.

No you’re absolutely right. Nobody should be displaced. It’s not fair.

I just got tired of having the same stupid argument over and over that I came up with that idea.

Somewhere Mr. Kuru is nodding his head and saying “I told you so.” lol .

I have no argument with you Jayne. I understand the spirit that your thread was created and agree with the stupid argument thing.

I’ve been on Fort Aspenwood since beta, through two times failing to make gold league, one time succeeding, and at least three times we were predicted to collapse and yet came back. I’ve enjoyed the community and I never thought of switching. I understand server pride just fine.

I also know a dying game mode when I see one. NA straight up doesn’t have the population to fill a total of 96 giant maps 24/7 and no amount of fiddling with the mechanics is going to make playing an empty map fun.

Yougottawanna.7420:

I’ve been on Fort Aspenwood since beta, through two times failing to make gold league, one time succeeding, and at least three times we were predicted to collapse and yet came back. I’ve enjoyed the community and I never thought of switching. I understand server pride just fine.

I also know a dying game mode when I see one. NA straight up doesn’t have the population to fill a total of 96 giant maps 24/7 and no amount of fiddling with the mechanics is going to make playing an empty map fun.

Yeah. Sadly that’s the current state of things.

Jayne.9251:

gennyt.3428:

Jayne.9251:

Server communities is what has kept people playing a reward-less game for the past three years. It’s only with the advent of the new map and the pve mechanics on those maps that WvW has completely sputtered out.

The problem with megaserver is that there is no brand loyalty. The conclusion that new communities will emerge from it is specious if you look at how the mechanics will work.

First off, if you’re not in a big guild, you likely will have a randomized map. If you do defense at all for your server, you will know that the bulk of those defenders come from small or solo guilds.

Big guilds tend to want to run together, so they are not going to separate one or two members to scout and watch the maps. They just won’t.

And how many guilds do you know of that strictly do defense 24/7 in WvW? And how big are those guilds? Not likely very big.

And if those smaller solo/guilds are randomized into different matches, there’s no creation of team — the backbone of WvW will disappear simply because people won’t respond to scout call outs because they don’t know and trust that scout. Scouts will stop doing the most unrewarding task on map because their efforts are being ignored.

With no scouts, and no defenders, the map will consist of attack forces only. With nobody defending the keeps or towers, and only attack on the map, the map will ultimately morph into a pve-champ train map — all aboard the ktrain.

And I think people forget that without defense, you can’t really have fights. It’s a symbiotic relationship. You lose one, you lose the other.

For those of us who have played this game, and loved this game mode, for the past three years — and honestly with the sheer lack of rewards in WvW and STILL it drew a loyal following is indication of people’s passion for this game. And all of that relied on a sense of community.

It didn’t happen because of guilds and their alliances. It happened because of a common purpose/server pride/goals that brought all those different guilds and single players together.

Take away that, and you’ll see WvW turn into a giant pve ktrain. Which will empty the next time a big update/shiny is announced.

Please stop projecting your experience onto others. I do not play for server pride, I play for the fight and so do 99% of the people I play with regularly, we’ve had that conversation among ourselves and most of them aren’t even aware who wins the week so please refrain from speaking for everyone, or even most people for that matter. My “brand loyalty” is my guild.

Unless I missed something, Anet has yet to reveal how they’re going to go about revamping WvWvW yet people are yelling megaserver and EotM, panicking and running with arguments based on assumptions in attempts to rally support against a system they know kitten all about.

I’m a little amused at how people go on about “my community!” yet cling to something as shallow as a server name. As if its the only thing than can be a source of pride. Season stacking, “tier balancing”, players trickling up tiers, even whole guilds moving together etc to the point where it rearranges server rankings and people are still screaming server pride is the backbone of WvWvW . SMH.

P.S
@ OP
Bad idea to compare WvWvW to professional sports. I’ve never heard of a 24/7 10v20v60 game.

And likewise, don’t project your experience onto others. You already speak of your guild being your brand. That’s not the case for everyone, and most certainly not your server’s defense team.

I know you care only about the fights, but lose your defense and your map will become nothing but a ktrain, that will render it indistinguishable from a pve champ map. Both sides need to exist if this mode is to work.

Have a little foresight enough to see that your defensive team are the ones who care about community. I know it won’t matter to you, you’ve already stated your guild is all that matters.

But it does matter to others. And there’s a lot of us.

How was I projecting exactly? Anyway, I have no desire to talk you out of your own self interest but rather to point out the weakness in your argument (a general point of view that seems to be popping up with the pro server crowd – so this isn’t even about you). The guild that and shows up to smash the blob your ACs and cannons can’t flush out is also on the defense team, regardless of their reason for performing . Our guild does it because fighting is fun yet the objective gets defended anyway, imagine that.

Once again, you’re making assumptions and running with them. Do defense and offense teams need to exist? Yes! Is keeping servers the linchpin it all depends on. Debatable at best. Looking at the state of the mode, I’m debating even how debatable that is.

You’re basically saying, keep a rigid system for the sake of the few dedicated defenders because according to you, they keep WvWvW turning (a mode that is dying). Totally not a sign that things need to change. Anyway I will not engage you further, carry on.

gennyt.3428:

How was I projecting exactly? Anyway, I have no desire to talk you out of your own self interest but rather to point out the weakness in your argument (a general point of view that seems to be popping up with the pro server crowd – so this isn’t even about you). The guild that and shows up to smash the blob your ACs and cannons can’t flush out is also on the defense team, regardless of their reason for performing . Our guild does it because fighting is fun yet the objective gets defended anyway, imagine that.

Once again, you’re making assumptions and running with them. Do defense and offense teams need to exist? Yes! Is keeping servers the linchpin it all depends on. Debatable at best. Looking at the state of the mode, I’m debating even how debatable that is.

You’re basically saying, keep a rigid system for the sake of the few dedicated defenders because according to you, they keep WvWvW turning (a mode that is dying). Totally not a sign that things need to change. Anyway I will not engage you further, carry on.

Well let’s see, you seem to think that defense will automatically happen. I guess it’ll be interesting to see that happen the way you’ve described. lol.

You are guild-centric and cannot understand the value of friendships beyond your guild. I get it. Really I do.

You go on the attack, then when your argument is debated/refuted, you “will not engage.”

That’s fine with me.

So I guess this is all I have to say, lol.

Jayne, I’m very confused by your comments. You ARE supportive of the megaserver idea, started a thread discussing megaserver implementation options and ended with “and over time we can see which idea is more robust”.

I support your idea fully btw. I think you are definitely putting more thought into it and on the right track now. I’ll take your 50% and compromise with you for sure.

Swagger.1459:

Jayne, I’m very confused by your comments. You ARE supportive of the megaserver idea, started a thread discussing megaserver implementation options and ended with “and over time we can see which idea is more robust”.

I support your idea fully btw. I think you are definitely putting more thought into it and on the right track now. I’ll take your 50% and compromise with you for sure.

No I think it’s pretty clear that I hate the megaserver idea.

You could probably convince the guy above me though — he plays NA.

Maybe that’s the issue — there is a distinct difference in community between NA and EU — but I see folks from NA expressing dissent as well, so dunno.

Well, I don’t fully know what is going on in the EU, but you did identify problems for us here on the other side. You put some thought into it and I fully support your idea and train of thought.

As you are saying, let’s see how it goes and how best to move forward overall. I can see us really putting our heads together to make wvw great again. You and I are halfway there now.

Too bad we are separated by this vast ocean, I would love for your mentoring in scouting and defending. And I’m sure there are great things like that I can share with you too. I’ve spent a lot of time with rvr and zone pvp stuff in other games and am pretty decent with wielding a commander tag when I take it seriously… Someday…

Glad we’re seeing some understanding of different cultures and an understanding overall that something needs to change.

I’ll let my summation of my proposal and ideology sit here for reference. I don’t want to summarize the summary of this idea, for it was initially posted in another thread in a much more organized fashion that was deleted.

Yes, it’s a lot of text. But so far it’s the best “middle ground” I’ve seen or devised. Not to discredit other peoples’ labor or thoughts, but I genuinely think many other proposals are not as thorough from a mechanics perspective regarding resolution to the underlying problems with WvW, and instead focus too heavily on randomizing the population more or simply ignore the entirety of the scope of the problems which have resulted in the state of WvW now.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Much-like-ESO/page/2#post5822613

Jayne.9251:

gennyt.3428:

How was I projecting exactly? Anyway, I have no desire to talk you out of your own self interest but rather to point out the weakness in your argument (a general point of view that seems to be popping up with the pro server crowd – so this isn’t even about you). The guild that and shows up to smash the blob your ACs and cannons can’t flush out is also on the defense team, regardless of their reason for performing . Our guild does it because fighting is fun yet the objective gets defended anyway, imagine that.

Once again, you’re making assumptions and running with them. Do defense and offense teams need to exist? Yes! Is keeping servers the linchpin it all depends on. Debatable at best. Looking at the state of the mode, I’m debating even how debatable that is.

You’re basically saying, keep a rigid system for the sake of the few dedicated defenders because according to you, they keep WvWvW turning (a mode that is dying). Totally not a sign that things need to change. Anyway I will not engage you further, carry on.

Well let’s see, you seem to think that defense will automatically happen. I guess it’ll be interesting to see that happen the way you’ve described. lol.

You are guild-centric and cannot understand the value of friendships beyond your guild. I get it. Really I do.

You go on the attack, then when your argument is debated/refuted, you “will not engage.”

That’s fine with me.

So I guess this is all I have to say, lol.

Oh Jayne. Let’s kick this off again, why not! I didn’t acknowledge your viewpoints? Your claim is that defense hangs on server pride and pointed out that’s not the case for everyone, I even gave you a very real example. That’s not me “going on the attack”, that’s me highlighting a flawed argument. You made assumptions about my server’s defense team while amazingly letting it fly right over your head that we are part of it.

Defense happens when there is a reason, whatever that reason may be and it can vary, it always has. But according to you, that reason is and should be server pride and I’m saying no, not really. Your counter was:

“Well let’s see, you seem to think that defense will automatically happen.”

When did I even imply that? That’s an actual question, like when I asked you to back up your claim that I was projecting my experience onto others. You didn’t address, much less refute anything. Your meme, though ironic, is not a substitute for an argument.

“You are guild-centric and cannot understand the value of friendships beyond your guild”.

Priortizing my guild doesn’t mean that only people on the roster matter. More assumptions from you Jayne, even about my gender lol. You’re fun. What else you got?

Good job not engaging.

You gave me an anecdotal response, much like mine have been.

If you can’t understand that your viewpoint, and you claim to speak for many, is the flip side of the same coin.

It’s a glass house thing.

And by all means, push for your guild-focused gameplay. I’m pretty certain the end result.

Jayne.9251:

Good job not engaging.

You gave me an anecdotal response, much like mine have been.

If you can’t understand that your viewpoint, and you claim to speak for many, is the flip side of the same coin.

It’s a glass house thing.

And by all means, push for your guild-focused gameplay. I’m pretty certain the end result.

How can I resist your comments?

You were speaking in absolutes when talking about why people still play WvWvW in order to build a doom and gloom argument that snowballed based on speculation and assumption, so let’s not cop out and call it “anecdotal” now simply because it was pointed out that your views aren’t universal. You did the same thing when speaking on defenders and even went as far as making assumptions about my current server’s defenders (like seriously, read the stuff you type). You’ve kept replying for some reason and still mangaged to not refute anything I said. We’re gonna have fun Jayne.

Jayne.9251:

Server communities is what has kept people playing a reward-less game for the past three years.

~snip~

P.S

Good job in tossing in a glass house proverb that doesn’t even apply.

Diku.2546:

Swagger.1459:

Diku, do you know what NATO is?

Is this a trick question?

They’re like the Mall Cops of the World because they’re thrown together & expected to perform like a well established military power from a single country?

At least that’ s what I think, but I’m sure they’re highly professional soldiers of combat.

It’s their thrown together aspect & different chains of command that tie back to a well established military power from a single country that muddies the water for them.

It’s kind of like EotM actually when viewed this way. Balance of power is still dictated by their single country that can pull the plug on their soldier’s participation. Each single country wears the pants when it comes to their soldier’s involvement from what I understand. I might be wrong though…so you might want to check that.

NATO is an alliance of countries sworn to protect each other.

Alliances work.

Having more people to accomplish the mission is not bad. It’s actually good.

You still have your side/friends, but then you come together with more sides and make new friends.

Many of you are still stuck in the gw2 “golden era” wvw mindset… That time is long gone.

What’s happened over the three years? Players keep moving up to top tiers when they can… That’s the first indication of a problem.

Second, if you put every single server into a tournament, WE CAN ALL PREDICT what rank each server will be for the most part. The winners and losers are predictable by the numbers and past experiences… That is not healthy.

Many of you are not looking at the big picture with regard to wvw and what it needs.

1. You need bodies and those bodies to be in as equal numbers as possible for competition. YOU, Diku, brought up sport references. NFL TEAMS START WITH EQUAL PLAYERS EVERY SINGLE GAME… Right??? There ya go and that’s why mega is needed.

2. You need more incentive than “server pride”. You need decent rewards for players. NFL players get paid millions of dollars to play. They don’t play for free, and state or hometown pride does not come for free… Athletes get paid to carry this pride… Players need rewards to want to carry that banner.

3. Players want to feel a sense of progression as well outside of ppt and ranking. NFL teams invest billion and billions of dollars in their players. Training, medical, camps, coaches… All in efforts to make players better… This in turn makes the players better individually FIRST, then they teach them how to be a great team with all the other individual players..

That’s perfectly fine for some of you to fight for and cling to “server pride”. That’s fine that some of you can play without rewards. That’s fine some of you can stand on a tower for 12 hours defending. That’s all fine… MOST players throughout video game history do NOT care about anything pvp first of all. MOST players want to have fun, and bigger and more equal numbers is more fun more often. MOST players want some kind of decent rewards and feel some individual progress.

Some of you can cling to your “golden days” ways, but there is a reality here that some of you are not facing…

Players are dropping like flies out of wvw and not being replaced at an equal rate.

You always use the 10% rule with regard to pvp in mmos. For every 100 players assume that 10 will try wvw/pvp. Out of those 10 take 5 to wvw and 5 to spvp. Out of those the numbers keep filtering out…

Now unless YOU come up with a plan to put 10,000,000 players in this game so we have 1,000,000 millions players to work with for pvp stuff, segregated/individual servers WILL NOT WORK.

Get World of Warcraft and League of Legends population numbers then we can have this “globe” conversation. I and Anet would love to have this conversation with you, but the REALITY is… megaserver/alliance type stuff is the only solution to the NEED right now. Y’all may not like it, but it is what it is. Sorry.

All roles still exist in the megaserver/alliance model too. Commanding is still needed. Scouting is still needed. Offense is still needed. Defense is still needed. Havok/Disruption is still needed. Leadership and coordination is still needed… But instead of just your server, you now have NATO members to help you too.

You DON’T lose ANYTHING with mega/alliance/whatever… You gain MORE period.

Lastly, if you only care about your server then that means you DON’T care about wvw as a whole, or all the other players outside of your little happy circles. That’s not being a team player, that’s being selfish… I’ve been sitting on a tier one server for a long time, yet I can see wvw as a WHOLE. I could just sit pretty and be like… “Hey what’s the problem? I’m all good here in tier one…”.

So while intent from some of you is good, genuine and sincere, your mentality is backwards… Start thinking more about the other servers and the spirit of wvwvw, stop thinking in isolated ways.

@Swagger

The current Base Map Mechanic is broken.

The NFL SuperBowl uses Team Identity very well in creating a highly competitive entertainment industry that is highly lucrative imho.

Server vs. Server needs to be at the center of WvW, but the Base Map Mechanic needs to be fixed before its potential to become the next eSport SuperBowl imho.

You can argue with the NFL that their model based upon a Team Identity will fail & should be thrown out in favor of an Alliance of Football Players.

I don’t think the NFL, however, will agree to your idea that they need to throw out their whole franchise that is built upon unique Team Identities in favor of an Alliance of Football Players.

This is what needs to be done to fix the Current Base Map Mechanic in my opinion at least…it’s not perfect, but it fixes the core reason why Server vs Server mode is broken imho.

Please…Reboot the Base Map Mechanic – Transform Servers into Globes

Change Base Map Mechanic & Allow Individual Player Picked Globe Match-Ups

Please…Reboot the Current Population – One Time Free Transfer

Population Reboot & Time Zone/Language Label

Should, Would, or Does work…which is better?

How much coding does ANet need to do?

Borderland Maps – Mix, Swap, or Reduce

Less is more?

Note to developers:

Just in case.

Using Parts of this proposal without the core Base Map Mechanic change may not work as intended

This proposal is not perfect, but at least it allows players to go where the fun is without sacrificing Server Pride & Identity.

Any system that automatically manipulates match-ups on behalf of the players will do this poorly imho.

This Server based solution lets players decide their own match-ups individually…while collectively encouraging a War between Worlds on a massive scale.

FAQ & Answers

1) Doesn’t having too many maps spread out the population base?

2) Isn’t this New Base Map Mechanic that does switching Globes the exact same thing that we have now for Match-Ups?

3) Isn’t PPT over emphasized in this proposal?

4) Why are you separating Globes into Time Zones & Language that keeps players apart?

5) How do you propose to stop a single super stacked and strong Globe from buying up guilds & dominating all Globes?

The concept I’m trying to bring to the table will be a good change for the future of WvW imho.

It offers a simple fix to the Server vs. Server mode & encourages the unique Team Identity culture that’s proven to be highly successful & lucrative by the NFL Superbowl franchise…imho.

Diku

Liston.9708:

@diku – agree with you I do ( heh Star Wars coming soon so added some Yoda speak). I do love me some Packers. I will watch football, but really only care about their game as far as the outcome goes. Alliances can be good if done well. If I have the choice of playing with the same people I play with currently AND new folks that is perfectly fine. If I am randomly thrown together all the time – meh I’ll pass.
@swagger – I don’t know that I speak for the majority about servers either. I never said I did. My point was you don’t either so why speak for “most”? Speak for you.

As a little background. I am on a server that is considered by many to be a bandwagon (YB), yet many of the names are people that were there 6 months into the game (when I first entered wvw) and have never moved. What is left of the lower tiers probably played together for a long time as well.

Do I care if I play for server name X? No I don’t. I do care if I cannot play with the same people if I want to though.. Caliburn has it right – so much of the fear comes from Reddit. If those are really the parameters oy vea….. They can’t be that bad…

Loyal Football fans are crazy…even if your team never makes it into the SuperBowl…you’ll still fight for them to win.

When it comes to emotions…I guess love is blind sometimes, or pride becomes you.

A really exciting Football season between staunch or bitter Rivals leads to a successful NFL SuperBowl.

Any system that automatically manipulates match-ups on behalf of the players will do this poorly in my opinion.

Now getting back to the topic of SuperBowl…Go Packers!!!

Diku.2546:

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

My point is many popular sports were not viewed or played by millions at one point in history.

Soccer <—- First Original Football that came before American Football
American Football
Baseball
Golf
Tennis

All these sports started somewhere…without the huge following that they have today.

Can you be so narrow minded to think that all the above sports had millions of followers the day they were invented?

---

Found some information I’d like to share.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Championships,_Wimbledon

The inaugural 1877 Wimbledon Championship opened on 9 July 1877.
The Gentlemen’s Singles was the only event held and was won by Spencer Gore, an old Harrovian rackets player, from a field of 22.
About 200 spectators paid one shilling each to watch the final.

Just need to convince ANet that they really do have the next eSport SuperBowl in their hands…and they just need to fix the carburetor gasket & replace the dead spark plugs in the car to make it go really really fast.

@Swagger

NATO is a force of good in this world.

What they do & are tasked to do is no laughing matter.

I’ve already caught myself being disrespectful…and I am guilty of saying what I felt in a previous post…so I will stop myself from doing it again.

I will not debate you using this reference to avoid saying something that could be viewed as being disrespectful to the many Good Men & Women who valiantly serve to protect others while putting themselves in harms way.

Yours truly,
Diku

Hope your answer isn’t…I’ve explained this before in other detailed posts.

I’ve just explained in detail above that a server based solution still remains viable imho.

I’m fully aware that wvw is broken… I’ve identified the problems many times. More individual and segregated wvw servers are not the answer… Sorry.

There’s plenty of server pride, especially on Yaks Bend. A great majority of WvW players can be seen almost daily fighting for our server despite the garbage WvW rewards from Arenanet.

I am pretty sure the core of Jade Quarry also has been there most of the server’s lifetime.

To the person that says Darkhaven has server pride, my brother has a second account that isn’t on YB. He has an account on Darkhaven and the WvW dailies are stupidly easy because the WvW turnout is super low.

Essentially most of the people that care to WvW have transferred to T1/T2. Everything below that is fairly quiet in comparison.

@Infusion

That’s the amazing thing about server pride…it’s like NFL or Major League Baseball.

You’ll always remember the team you first fell in love with…even though you’ve changed over the years.

I really wish ANet makes the right decision & fix the broken Base Map Mechanic that is a simple fix that was described above.

Diku.2546:

@Infusion

That’s the amazing thing about server pride…it’s like NFL or Major League Baseball.

You’ll always remember the team you first fell in love with…even though you’ve changed over the years.

I really wish ANet makes the right decision & fix the broken Base Map Mechanic that is a simple fix that was described above.

You keep quoting this analogy over and over again in this thread, but you appear to be completely ignoring a huge flaw in the entire thing.

People who play WvW are not fans of a team, they are the players. Every single argument you’ve tried to make with this analogy has been focused around us being the fans, but that’s simply not the case, comparing WvW players with Football fans is completely nonsensical.

And even you were comparing professional sports players, your entire argument falls apart spectacularly, because overwhelmingly Loyalty does not really exist in Football, between the players and the teams, or in baseball.

Do yourself a favor and stop trying to support what are, in my opinion, a lot of valid points, with an analogy that makes no sense.

@Polismassa

I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m trying to say.

I agree loyalty for casual WvW players changes easily, but I believe it’s the die hard WvW players that have strong server loyalties is what makes playing WvW fun.

They provide the “Skin” in the game.

You don’t need to be with your Server from the beginning of time to be considered loyal to your server…it’s your passion & determination to fight for your server that really counts.

I believe there are quite a few die hard WvW players that are loyal to their server…they’re the ones that make or break a WvW Community. These types of players are at the Heart of a thriving WvW Server Community…imho.

Casual players can feel it (die hard WvW determination to win) when it’s on the field of battle imho…and intense battles are enjoyed when it’s done right. This is what makes the difference between a KTrain & a Siege Battle.

Ok…since you say in WvW the (player) that plays on a Unique Server is part of the Team…and you’re absolutely correct.

Imagine being able to play in the SuperBowl yourself…if you pick the right Team.

Loyalty rewarded in this way is the ultimate Reward for WvW players.

ANet just needs to fix the broken Base Map Mechanic imho.

A simple solution is posted above.

If you read my last 3-4 posts above…it’s pretty clear & simple.

Keep the Server Based Model…the analogy is that Unique Team Based Identities used by the NFL drives SERIOUS Passion for the franchise…and Fix the Base Map Mechanic that is causing WvW to fail.

Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system…imho.

Once the Base Map Mechanic is fixed…Server Loyalty & Passion can be used to fuel the battles that will rage across all Globes.

Just need to convince ANet that they really do have the next eSport SuperBowl in their hands…and they just need to fix the carburetor gasket & replace the dead spark plugs in the car to make it go really really fast.

SuperBowl 1 Attendance – 61,946

http://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/nfl/super-bowl-attendance-by-the-numbers.aspx

briggah.7910:

Transferring off the server I was on since I started was the worst choice I ever made in this game. I think it helped kill this game for me tbh. I lost my server pride and honestly don’t even care about this game or this game mode anymore. Fights are not really fun to me when its nothing but map blobs everywhere.

I used to put in 8+ hours a day in WvW and now I put in 8 hours a week if that. Haven’t been to a reset yet but made it to every single reset on my old server.. Used to put out multiple wvw videos a week and since I transferred I’ve made 4 videos.. Planned to move back but its more like I’m moving on instead of back.

I used to play 4 hours on week nights & 16+ hours on the weekends.

I stayed with the server I started playing WvW for, but it’s not the same after HoT was released.

Can’t really blame you for transferring.

It’s the Broken Base Map Mechanic that forces players to abandon their server to find a decent fight.

ANet really needs to fix this Broken Base Map Mechanic.

It’s really a simple fix…imho.

Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system.

Once the Base Map Mechanic is replaced…Server Loyalty & Passion can be used to fuel the battles that will rage across all Globes.

The major killjoys are the New Desert Map BLs, Auto-Upgrades, and the earned Guild Upgrades being taken away.

Daggos Skelito.2910:

What about a hybrid type megaserver? Everything stays the same except low populated servers. It will ask if you want to move to a more populated server. Simple Yes or No. If yes, it puts you were you are needed. Helping those servers that are getting steam rolled. If no, you can stay on empty map and preserve your server pride.

ANet needs some way to earn income. Players buying gems to transfer is probably 1 source for them to bring in revenue to support the Pay Once & No Monthly Fee model.

Later…ANet will probably be able to tap into other revenue streams like the NFL.

Diku.2546:

Liston.9708:

Diku.2546:

Hope I’m not coming across as an expert claiming to talk for the majority, because that’s not my motivation.

My motivation is to save the Classic Server Based WvW that I fell in love with.

That’s why I’m asking for support…if anything…I think I’m in the minority for asking for it.

Yours truly,
Diku

Nope – understand what you are saying/asking. Your counterpart seems to think he/she speaks for the majority. I doubt the majority even come to the forums so I don’t know how anyone could read all those people minds not on their server……

Oh, that’s comforting.

I’ll still have to say…that I’m speaking for myself.

I’ll miss the Classic Server based Communities.

It’s gonna be especially hard to get really fired up emotionally for whichever team I end up fighting for.

I’m trying to imagine an NFL SuperBowl game where we cheer for Red, Green, or Blue team.

Team or Server identity is thrown out & we’re given a product that forces us into 3 Teams.

I’m trying to imagine the NFL consolidating All the Football Teams into 3 Teams.

Sorry Green Bay Packers & Fans…you gotta Team merge into…let’s see…the Blue Team.

If the NFL deteriorated that badly to be forced into that position, I’m sure they would go down with dignity and end the league.

As someone else pointed out, you can’t compare GW2 to a sport that has millions of fans….

Another thing, the NFL tries to attract people to its game. WvW was kind of left to die out it feels like.

Diku.2546:

Daggos Skelito.2910:

What about a hybrid type megaserver? Everything stays the same except low populated servers. It will ask if you want to move to a more populated server. Simple Yes or No. If yes, it puts you were you are needed. Helping those servers that are getting steam rolled. If no, you can stay on empty map and preserve your server pride.

ANet needs some way to earn income. Players buying gems to transfer is probably 1 source for them to bring in revenue to support the Pay Once & No Monthly Fee model.

Later…ANet will probably be able to tap into other revenue streams like the NFL.

They do earn income… Server tranfers are not the number 1 source of income or a big revenue earner either comparatively for Anet… Not by a long shot… Even if they removed the ability to pay to transfer it wouldn’t make a dent in their revenue.

Also, if you believe server transfers are an important way for Anet to earn revenue, why would you…

1.) Selfishly ask for a one time free transfer which would hurt an important source of income (as you say)?

2.) Why should they give free transfers to the whole playerbase for the benefit of www players when most don’t even care about wvw?

3.) If you think that server pride is that important, why are you asking for a free ticket to a completely different home server where players don’t know others players or have any “server pride” invested in?

Additionally, with regard to your last teply to me… I’m not twisting any words. You are clearly seeing and stated that players are already bailing from their servers to top 3 servers.. That throws your “server pride” concept out the window and shows that you see the distress going on with the individual server system.

As for a fully fleshed out idea, I don’t need to do that first off. What I’ve talked about in bits and pieces and speculated on in the wvw section is more than enough. The concept speaks for itself, but I could easily put things together just by copy/pasting myself.

sephiroth.4217:

Diku.2546:

Liston.9708:

Diku.2546:

Hope I’m not coming across as an expert claiming to talk for the majority, because that’s not my motivation.

My motivation is to save the Classic Server Based WvW that I fell in love with.

That’s why I’m asking for support…if anything…I think I’m in the minority for asking for it.

Yours truly,
Diku

Nope – understand what you are saying/asking. Your counterpart seems to think he/she speaks for the majority. I doubt the majority even come to the forums so I don’t know how anyone could read all those people minds not on their server……

Oh, that’s comforting.

I’ll still have to say…that I’m speaking for myself.

I’ll miss the Classic Server based Communities.

It’s gonna be especially hard to get really fired up emotionally for whichever team I end up fighting for.

I’m trying to imagine an NFL SuperBowl game where we cheer for Red, Green, or Blue team.

Team or Server identity is thrown out & we’re given a product that forces us into 3 Teams.

I’m trying to imagine the NFL consolidating All the Football Teams into 3 Teams.

Sorry Green Bay Packers & Fans…you gotta Team merge into…let’s see…the Blue Team.

If the NFL deteriorated that badly to be forced into that position, I’m sure they would go down with dignity and end the league.

As someone else pointed out, you can’t compare GW2 to a sport that has millions of fans….

Another thing, the NFL tries to attract people to its game. WvW was kind of left to die out it feels like.

Yeah, comparing gw2 wvw to the NFL is an embellishment. Gw2 wvw is more like the sport of Curling if anything. Sorry to fans of Curling btw, but it is what it is…

@sephiroth

WvW in my opinion is just starting out & ANet is trying to get it right.

Cornerstone needs to be set correctly or the whole skyscraper will not build as tall as you want it to.

The core needs to be Team Based.

All lucrative Sports are Team Based & have a Solid Identity…

Franchise…is that a marketing term? Well it applies here…for ANet to consider.

Ok…you can bring up Tennis…but that’s like PvP.

NFL SuperBowl is darn successful on having multiple teams compete…and high school players dream of making it into the NFL…but they all have their Team identity that is core to their value.

ANet’s skyscraper for WvW will be limited if they choose the wrong cornerstone to build with.

Choose wrong…and you’ll get the best Shoot Em Up game ever, but ANet will never have the ability to be the next eSport SuperBowl & setting up a Franchise model if they really care about the bottom line.

Hmmm…speaking for myself & not others. Professional sports is a good example to use.

I think many players are motivated to play for their Guild or Server for camaraderie.

It’s this shared Camaraderie/Pride that has the potential to nurture a strong sense of community.

It’s this kind of Pride that creates a Strong Sense of Community which is the backbone behind many Good & Hard Fought Rivalries imho.

A really exciting Football season between staunch or bitter Rivals leads to a successful NFL SuperBowl.

The core message still goes back to Pride based on a unique identity…it starts out in High School, grows in College, and peaks in Professional Sports…this concept of Team Pride.

We need to build WvW around this unique pride…

World Server is a very large slew of people in one sweep…

Guild size can be small or large…

They all share one thing in common…a unique identity & pride.

Wimbledon & NFL didn’t start out with milliions of fans btw…see for yourself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Championships,_Wimbledon

The inaugural 1877 Wimbledon Championship opened on 9 July 1877.
The Gentlemen’s Singles was the only event held and was won by Spencer Gore, an old Harrovian rackets player, from a field of 22.
About 200 spectators paid one shilling each to watch the final.

SuperBowl 1 Attendance – 61,946

http://www.sportingcharts.com/articles/nfl/super-bowl-attendance-by-the-numbers.aspx

@sephiroth

Imagine being able to play in the SuperBowl yourself…if you pick the right Team.

Loyalty rewarded in this way is the ultimate Reward for WvW players.

ANet just needs to fix the broken Base Map Mechanic imho.

A simple solution is in this Topic thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NFL-SuperBowl-Server-Pride/page/3#post5855452

It’s pretty clear & simple.

Keep the Server Based Model…the analogy is that Unique Team Based Identities used by the NFL drives SERIOUS Passion for the franchise…and Fix the Base Map Mechanic that is causing WvW to fail.

Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system…imho.

Once the Base Map Mechanic is fixed…Server Loyalty & Passion can be used to fuel the battles that will rage across all Globes.

Your sport references don’t work at all in this context and wvw is not “just starting out”… We are 3 years into product and wvw life, and wvw failed under the segregated server system… Segregated “globes” won’t help, nor free transfers…

Good intent on your part, but wrong solutions and comparisons.

SuperBowl 3

Attendance – 75,389

Super Bowl (all of them)… Equal amount of players on the field…

@Swagger

You’re so clever. Equal amount of players on the field.

Yes, ANet doesn’t earn a lot from WvW today.

The Wimbledon & NFL didn’t earn a lot when they first started.

The Wimbledon & NFL earns lots of money today imho.

Players are bailing because of the Broken Base Map Mechanic.

Players are forced to abandon their server to find a decent fight.

ANet really needs to fix this Broken Base Map Mechanic.

It’s really a simple fix…imho.

Get rid of the Current Tier Based system & replace it with a Globe based system.

Once the Base Map Mechanic is replaced…Server Loyalty & Passion can be used to fuel the battles that will rage across all Globes.

Should, Would, or Does work…which is better?

How much coding does ANet need to do?

Your proposal is still in bits & pieces. Please create a Topic Thread & be the Lead Contributor.

I’m sure the WvW Community would be very interested in seeing it all in one place.

It’s not perfect, but here’s a solution to our problem with Equal amount of players on the field.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NFL-SuperBowl-Server-Pride/page/3#post5855452

Diku

I’m not clever, just honest…

I’m not here to make a proposal, I’m here talking about your topic.

Your idea doesn’t make things as close to equal… That’s the problem…

@Swagger

Let me help you then…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/NFL-SuperBowl-Server-Pride/page/3#post5855452

You might want to read FAQ question #5.

5) How do you propose to stop a single super stacked and strong Globe from buying up guilds & dominating all Globes?

Just for your reference.

Should, Would, or Does work…which is better?

How much coding does ANet need to do?

@Swagger

Can’t put my finger on it, but you seem to have a really good solution somewhere, but it’s always been discussed many times in detail before & in other threads for some reason.

I was just trying to encourage you to gather up all your posts & to create a Topic thread where you can be the Lead Contributor.

You’re really good at identifying problems, but I think you would also be good at providing solutions…if you decide to put your heart into it.

Swagger.1459:

Diku, do you know what NATO is?

NATO means No Action, Talking Only.
Let me see… nope, No Action Nor Talking doesnt spell ANET.

too lazy to read everything said. but i dont think server is the problem with wvw. they can make a balance in server population etc etc. but wvw for all these years is just a fun mode. reward for wvwers is aweful comparing to pve/pvp .
myself may liked the new map but it wasnt what wvw needed. that change was sooooo secondary issue (not an issue at all actually alpine map was great)

Is it another sign of end times when the WvW forums are filled with nothing but the same 5 or so spam posters ineptly defending their sacred cow?

Saw this posted in another Topic thread & wanted to share the concept difference between Color Alliances vs Team Names.

COLOR ALLIANCE

Green. Purple. – Susan Ivanova and Drazi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcBTOU7RvbU

Splatoon green vs purple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q96hXIOk69Y

TEAM NAMES

Top 10 Super Bowls of All-Time | #1: Steelers vs. Cardinals (Super Bowl XLIII) | NFL Films
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7HYCc41oT4

Top 10 Super Bowl Plays: #1 David Tyree’s Helmet Catch | NFL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCAQsEwyCcg

Diku, you have based the entirety of the tread on the fan/spectator perspective…

Wvw players are the NFL players in this case…

Twitch users are the fans watching the wvw game…

“Imagine going to a NFL SuperBowl game where:
Red, Green, or Blue Team
You buy a ticket to cheer for a team.
NFL tells you who to cheer for.
NFL makes sure that supporters are evenly divided between the Red, Green, and Blue

Teams based on each person’s friend/family preference.
Server Pride
You buy a ticket to cheer for a team.
You decide who you want to cheer for.
Win or Loose you pick your own team."

I like your bolded quote too diku, that’s what megaserver does to even the playing field in eotm and those more even numbers are even what YOU want for Wvw…

No, the NFL doesn’t make sure fans are evenly divided… NFL doesn’t give away free tickets… That is up to fans and individual people to buy…

I think you need to put these pieces of the puzzle together better… What you want is equal sides for competition, but your way is a failing to see the true resolution…

The entire premise of this thread is flawed…

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

The current Base Map Mechanic is broken.

The NFL SuperBowl uses Team Identity very well in creating a highly competitive entertainment industry that is highly lucrative imho.

Server vs. Server needs to be at the center of WvW, but the Base Map Mechanic needs to be fixed before its potential to become the next eSport SuperBowl imho.

You can argue with the NFL that their model based upon a Team Identity will fail & should be thrown out in favor of an Alliance of Football Players.

I don’t think the NFL, however, will agree to your idea that they need to throw out their whole franchise that is built upon unique Team Identities in favor of an Alliance of Football Players.

This is what needs to be done to fix the Current Base Map Mechanic in my opinion at least…it’s not perfect, but it fixes the core reason why Server vs Server mode is broken imho.

---

Reboot the Base Map Mechanic & Population

---

The concept I’m trying to bring to the table will be a good change for the future of WvW imho.

It offers a simple fix to the Server vs. Server mode & encourages the unique Team Identity culture that’s proven to be highly successful & lucrative by the NFL Superbowl franchise…imho.

Diku

@Swagger

You would argue with the NFL that their Team Based Franchise is all Wrong.

Your reading ability is impaired. My message hasn’t changed.

If you read English…this whole thread encourages Team Identity.

New Base Mechanic btw would have 2 Globes fighting in an Annual SuperBowl Event.

You’re way too narrow minded when you reference a 3 way battle in WvW.

You really can’t or won’t see the whole picture.

You still have no vision & no fundamental concept that is detailed enough to guide WvW imho.

Your truly,
Diku