Guild Wars 2

root.2859:

The ‘N’ isnt lost due to lack of stab – where i play, necros find places in melee parties and get stab from guards, only scrubs used to run 4+ guards in one party, thats why i dont get the ‘perma stab’ problem…

the N wasting stab no matter what. It cannot provide ANY of its own.

SO IT NEEDS guards. Meaning your less optimal now.

It is not a matter of “how can necro get stab”. It is an question of “how few stab skills can we use?”

If necro is present, then you need more stab skills because you need to cover for a profession that brings no stab to the table short of a massively long CD elite.

Necro is a liability not out of offensive ability or utility, it simply wastes skills on other profs.

To put it in a more theoretical scenario – the stab skill used to give necro stab could have saved a ele, guard or warrior. All of which is more valuable then necro now that you are not relying on Well of Corruption or other similar skills to remove stab.

The new meta is HOW TO NOT WASTE STABILITY. Necro is wasting stability.

root.2859:

The ‘N’ isnt lost due to lack of stab – where i play, necros find places in melee parties and get stab from guards, only scrubs used to run 4+ guards in one party, thats why i dont get the ‘perma stab’ problem…

My Necro flanks the hostile zerg. In future I can alternative place a shield generator and grant stability to 20-50 people via shield dome.

Kanashi.5104:

Murksler.5261:

Capturing anything besides camps won’t be possible anymore with this changes.
If you push you’re dead.

That is in fact not true. We fought outnumbered last night and we pushed quite a lot. Yes I got pulled and knocked down more but we didn’t die.

But your march video is going to look a bit different from your february one

Prysin.8542:

Necro – liability (no stab, horrid movement. Bringing one will waste stab stacks needed for others)

So we lost the “N”. Because necro has no stab, and stab stacks are now VALUABLE.

I didn’t think anyone was going to be able to top the foolishness of saying Ele had no place in the old meta, but here we are.

Necro is still viable. Hope you guys have your jolly rogers ready.

Belenwyn.8674:

root.2859:

The ‘N’ isnt lost due to lack of stab – where i play, necros find places in melee parties and get stab from guards, only scrubs used to run 4+ guards in one party, thats why i dont get the ‘perma stab’ problem…

My Necro flanks the hostile zerg. In future I can alternative place a shield generator and grant stability to 20-50 people via shield dome.

in the future, everyone can do that. Meaning your point is moot.

Ele, thief and Ranger is a better flanker because they can GTFO at any moment and do just as much damage.

Sorry, necro lost this patch. Warriors didnt fare much better.

solution: wait around 4 months for POSSIBLE expansion release (may be sooner, may be later. Prolly not sooner then 3rd GW2 anniversary).

Specialization will prolly change the game a little. For now, we got 4 months TEMP meta at the very least.

Prysin.8542:

Necro is a liability not out of offensive ability or utility, it simply wastes skills on other profs.

To put it in a more theoretical scenario – the stab skill used to give necro stab could have saved a ele, guard or warrior. All of which is more valuable then necro now that you are not relying on Well of Corruption or other similar skills to remove stab.
.

Necro is one of the biggest AoE-DPS in a zerg.. In Well of Corruption’s Boon removal list Stability is the last one, you practically never used it for Stab removal. ( source )
With these changes, I would save a necro 90% over a warrior…

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob

I see you want to continue in this pro360noscope fashion. Very well. I literally never saw a single thread about that on this sub forum. The GvG community seriously need to stop thinking that Anet thinks about it every time they balance something in the game.

I believe that Anet thought about nerfing the zerg tactics in general, as well as how over-powered stability was in WvW. Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)

Ok, WvW is unbalanced. Ok, the game is balanced about small scale. But if guardian was as brokenly OP in pvp as it was last week in WvW, imagine the kittenstorm on the pvp subforum! So you lost because you sticked to your GWEN outdated meta? Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.

Ranger: Yes. Snipe the casters
Thieves: Yes. Stealth is very helpful in ressing downed players. That can also be there to assassinate the casters.
Mesmers: Hohoho
Engi have ranged AoE damage.

Kasteros.9847:

BassHunteR.7246:

I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…

Just my toughts

Yeah, but how this warrior can strike eles when he get 20 ccs on his face? The point is that u can’t reach papers with ur meele train. That is 1. argument. 2. as u typed u had really big numbers against really big numbers( 40 vs 50?) What I talk about is 20 vs 60( u can;t do this anymore) and 60 vs 60 – pugs( u just insta die).

I would say it was 25-35 on our side kitten on their side and eventually even sides…
And sorry to say but if you cant find out how to hit the backline reroll cause you are a bad frontline anyway…or get a descent commander… one that doenat just yell push right jnto them and bomb… cause that will make you die…but there are ways around that strategy..
And yesterday on most fights i had…they had a lot of ranged dps and our frontline still managed to get right where we needed to get and BOMB the kitten out of them… just likevthey did to us some time later on the next fight…
It is a matter of who stay focused and does everything more coordinated..but with one basic difference..
Every bomb from the frontline now REALLY matters and you MUST avoid them if you are ranged…and you MUST land them if you are melee…
Quite simple

Bubi.5237:

Prysin.8542:

Necro is a liability not out of offensive ability or utility, it simply wastes skills on other profs.

To put it in a more theoretical scenario – the stab skill used to give necro stab could have saved a ele, guard or warrior. All of which is more valuable then necro now that you are not relying on Well of Corruption or other similar skills to remove stab.
.

Necro is one of the biggest AoE-DPS in a zerg.. In Well of Corruption’s Boon removal list Stability is the last one, you practically never used it for Stab removal. ( source )
With these changes, I would save a necro 90% over a warrior…

i do not detest necro DPS. i detest their impact on their team.

To get necro into the upcoming meta you need +1 guard extra for every 5 necros.. That is just cuz you need stability for the necro. your necro got ONE elite stab, but with such long cooldown, it has EXTREMELY limited amounts of getting stab.

Then there is the fact that you got a limited number of players per team.
This means to bring necromancers, you need more guards. Which means less eles, mesmers, thieves, warriors, rangers and engies. All of which could have contributed more on the DPS front then the guard.

Guard is great, but it is there for support, NOT for spike. Guard also got lousy mobility, so 2x lousy mobility classes aint great in general. Sure swiftness spam is prevalent, but you often need burst movement, which both necro and guard is bad at. So is staff ele, but they got the range to deal with sudden blitz pushes.

Necromancer is strong, it just doesnt protect itself good enough to be able to stay afloat for the whole ride now that ONE stability stack is removed instantly.

That being said, i do understand you guys who play necro. It aint fun being told your class will fade out and be unwanted. That being said, i main ranger. Noone wants me in any zerg. Yet i stick to the frontline with my trusty GS and i do not die. My profession is supposed to suck at frontline, yet i run a roaming build in T1 EU and still survive just fine.
However my profession got limitation on its own, it doesnt support allies very well, it doesnt do massive AOE damage.
It does however, cover its own rear end VERY well, and in the cases of being overwhelmed, it can run away VERY fast.

Necromancer does not cover its own rear end very well, nor does it run fast. It relies on shout warriors and guards to deal with the majority of issues, even more so if out of LF.

Necros are still in the new meta, maybe even more then before. Massive range AoE and CC’s due fear.
For caster there will be no real change. They still in the back and cast their spells. And there they will not need any or much stability. The different is that you have no real frontline anymore. Now you will have a backline and a midline, but noch frontline.

Sorel.4870:

root.2859:

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

Or an ICD of 0.5s to the ability of a skill to strip a stab stack? That way, a static field with only strip something like 10 stacks on the entire zerg instead of 40.

The simplest solution would be to make it so these AOEs have finite charges so they can only affect X players before they run out of power and dissipate. So after 5 triggers of the effect, the ground effect disappears.

This way the CC generation is limited by charges just like stability is now limited by charges.

It’s all about remaining consistent in their changes. Unlimited Stability is an issue? Okay, fine nerf it. However you also must nerf Unlimited CC potential of abilities as well or the whole system becomes imbalanced.

I like (and find it fair) that you now feel like my necro with it’s very limited stability

If it leads to the dead of the hammer train it’s a very nice change!

Dayra.7405:

I like (and find it fair) that you now feel like my necro with it’s very limited stability

If it leads to the dead of the hammer train it’s a very nice change!

It’s 2015 who the hell is still running a Hammer train!?!

aspirine.6852:

Kanashi.5104:

Murksler.5261:

Capturing anything besides camps won’t be possible anymore with this changes.
If you push you’re dead.

That is in fact not true. We fought outnumbered last night and we pushed quite a lot. Yes I got pulled and knocked down more but we didn’t die.

But your march video is going to look a bit different from your february one

Yes it will be!

Kodiak.3281:

Dayra.7405:

I like (and find it fair) that you now feel like my necro with it’s very limited stability

If it leads to the dead of the hammer train it’s a very nice change!

It’s 2015 who the hell is still running a Hammer train!?!

I meet some (hammer cores) in EU and wasn’t always able to evade them

Kodiak.3281:

Sorel.4870:

root.2859:

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

Or an ICD of 0.5s to the ability of a skill to strip a stab stack? That way, a static field with only strip something like 10 stacks on the entire zerg instead of 40.

The simplest solution would be to make it so these AOEs have finite charges so they can only affect X players before they run out of power and dissipate. So after 5 triggers of the effect, the ground effect disappears.

This way the CC generation is limited by charges just like stability is now limited by charges.

It’s all about remaining consistent in their changes. Unlimited Stability is an issue? Okay, fine nerf it. However you also must nerf Unlimited CC potential of abilities as well or the whole system becomes imbalanced.

id say shorter durations for the fields.

static is 4 seconds. make it 2. (WvW only)
line of warding is 5 seconds, make it 3 (in WvW only)
ring of warding is 5 seconds, make it 3 (in WvW only)
spectral wall is 5 seconds, make it 3 (in WvW only)

Reduce the time window while retaining potency means timing, thus skill of landing a perfect CC, is amplified.

What takes more skill? Stopping say 20 players in 4 sec due to limitation of AOE effect, or 60 players in 2 seconds due to limiting AOE duration?

4 sec sloppy placement – no skill needed to just spam one.
halve the window of effect and you start to think where to aim.

Prysin.8542:

Guard is great, but it is there for support, NOT for spike. Guard also got lousy mobility, so 2x lousy mobility classes aint great in general. Sure swiftness spam is prevalent, but you often need burst movement, which both necro and guard is bad at. So is staff ele, but they got the range to deal with sudden blitz pushes.

GS Guard has no Spike dmg?
GS Guard has no mobility?
Pls say how GS Guard has the same mobility as a Necro.. I wanna leap so far away with my necro. And then we don’t even take JI as a possible gapcloser..
Staff ele 1.2k range, Staff Necro 1.2k range most of the time, 900 for wells.. Not really new, we played this way for years, now it’s easier to avoid the meeletrain with Necro as they have less stability..
And ele btw has “Blink” to “deal with sudden blitz pushes”.

Prysin.8542:

Yet i stick to the frontline with my trusty GS and i do not die. My profession is supposed to suck at frontline, yet i run a roaming build in T1 EU and still survive just fine.
However my profession got limitation on its own, it doesnt support allies very well, it doesnt do massive AOE damage.
It does however, cover its own rear end VERY well, and in the cases of being overwhelmed, it can run away VERY fast.

Selfish classes are not good.. If you’re not doing dmg, why are you there? What are you doing there? How are you helping your team to win? Ranger will rely on others for condi cleanse, don’t ya think? Or how’ll you escape from immob+cripple+chill bomb?

Prysin.8542:

Necromancer does not cover its own rear end very well, nor does it run fast. It relies on shout warriors and guards to deal with the majority of issues, even more so if out of LF.

No change, it was this way for years and necro is still one of the GWEN. So maybe it was not a big problem for good players?

hey bubi, gotta say. L2P.

You are talking to MEDIGUARD with GS.
AH guard with GS does medium damage. The leap is short. GS Guard is 20% faster then necro at best. Still 20% faster then the slowest of all classes means its still LEAGUES behind everyone else. That is a fact. I do also play guard, warrior, ele, necro (not much anymore) and sometimes engi. Guard and necro is abysmally slow. Even when you run their quickest setups their only really quick in a few milliseconds, then back to being super slow.

Prior to this patch, necromancers thrived because you only needed stab ONCE. Once there, everything was OK. Now you need stab again and again and again. Because it is removed.
I get the feeling you have not played in the new patch, please do enter a zerg and see how quickly you lose stacks of stab. Unless you got a profession that can fend for itself, it wont stay afloat.

Rangers got several options to deal with condies. Sure not as good as guard or warrior with shouts, but their not shut down by them. Passive or active, take a pic, rangers got a solution for it that does not hinder zerg performance in the least.

Vurse.9873:

Yarr, WvW is sunk! ANet, thanks for more terrible design decisions!

raises a glass for WvW and sheds a tear
It was a decent game 2012-2015.

I feel like these stability changes were designed and meant for the Revenant with their aoe stab on dodge, to be with them and silly ANet decided to plop it out now.

Banzie.5248:

I feel like these stability changes were designed and meant for the Revenant with their aoe stab on dodge, to be with them and silly ANet decided to plop it out now.

Wouldn’t be surprised if they had a trailer soon just showing the Revenant dodging all over and dropping roads with a link to a pre order. #REVstabHYPE

hedix.1986:

Vurse.9873:

Yarr, WvW is sunk! ANet, thanks for more terrible design decisions!

raises a glass for WvW and sheds a tear
It was a decent game 2012-2015.

Maybe you should start learning how to play, and not to run straight to every AOE field. This stability change is by far the best change that have been made to game.

Prysin.8542:

Bubi.5237:

Prysin.8542:

Necro is a liability not out of offensive ability or utility, it simply wastes skills on other profs.

To put it in a more theoretical scenario – the stab skill used to give necro stab could have saved a ele, guard or warrior. All of which is more valuable then necro now that you are not relying on Well of Corruption or other similar skills to remove stab.
.

Necro is one of the biggest AoE-DPS in a zerg.. In Well of Corruption’s Boon removal list Stability is the last one, you practically never used it for Stab removal. ( source )
With these changes, I would save a necro 90% over a warrior…

i do not detest necro DPS. i detest their impact on their team.

To get necro into the upcoming meta you need +1 guard extra for every 5 necros.. That is just cuz you need stability for the necro. your necro got ONE elite stab, but with such long cooldown, it has EXTREMELY limited amounts of getting stab.

Then there is the fact that you got a limited number of players per team.
This means to bring necromancers, you need more guards. Which means less eles, mesmers, thieves, warriors, rangers and engies. All of which could have contributed more on the DPS front then the guard.

Guard is great, but it is there for support, NOT for spike. Guard also got lousy mobility, so 2x lousy mobility classes aint great in general. Sure swiftness spam is prevalent, but you often need burst movement, which both necro and guard is bad at. So is staff ele, but they got the range to deal with sudden blitz pushes.

Necromancer is strong, it just doesnt protect itself good enough to be able to stay afloat for the whole ride now that ONE stability stack is removed instantly.

That being said, i do understand you guys who play necro. It aint fun being told your class will fade out and be unwanted. That being said, i main ranger. Noone wants me in any zerg. Yet i stick to the frontline with my trusty GS and i do not die. My profession is supposed to suck at frontline, yet i run a roaming build in T1 EU and still survive just fine.
However my profession got limitation on its own, it doesnt support allies very well, it doesnt do massive AOE damage.
It does however, cover its own rear end VERY well, and in the cases of being overwhelmed, it can run away VERY fast.

Necromancer does not cover its own rear end very well, nor does it run fast. It relies on shout warriors and guards to deal with the majority of issues, even more so if out of LF.

Poor guy seems so excited that he thinks rangers might replace necros xD unfortunately doesn’t understand how raids work. GS guard no mobility what? Clearly no idea how necros are used in raids, they’re more important now than ever. Ele’s no mobility? xD multiple escapes in the form of blinks, sliding evades and mist form mate.

Prysin.8542:

hey bubi, gotta say. L2P.

You are talking to MEDIGUARD with GS.
AH guard with GS does medium damage. The leap is short. GS Guard is 20% faster then necro at best. Still 20% faster then the slowest of all classes means its still LEAGUES behind everyone else. That is a fact. I do also play guard, warrior, ele, necro (not much anymore) and sometimes engi. Guard and necro is abysmally slow. Even when you run their quickest setups their only really quick in a few milliseconds, then back to being super slow.

Prior to this patch, necromancers thrived because you only needed stab ONCE. Once there, everything was OK. Now you need stab again and again and again. Because it is removed.
I get the feeling you have not played in the new patch, please do enter a zerg and see how quickly you lose stacks of stab. Unless you got a profession that can fend for itself, it wont stay afloat.

Rangers got several options to deal with condies. Sure not as good as guard or warrior with shouts, but their not shut down by them. Passive or active, take a pic, rangers got a solution for it that does not hinder zerg performance in the least.

Nope, normal AH GS guard.. Dmg comes from armor (and not utilities), and nobody stopped ya before patch to go half-zerker.. JI was a thing in the past (thou with hammer), and if guard with leap is slow, then everything without a leap is waay slower.. like engi, mesmer We have perma-swiftness anyway, right?

As a necro, during open-field fights you should avoid everything anyway.. And in keeps/chokes it’ll be really hard anyway ^^

BassHunteR.7246:

Kasteros.9847:

BassHunteR.7246:

I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…

Just my toughts

Yeah, but how this warrior can strike eles when he get 20 ccs on his face? The point is that u can’t reach papers with ur meele train. That is 1. argument. 2. as u typed u had really big numbers against really big numbers( 40 vs 50?) What I talk about is 20 vs 60( u can;t do this anymore) and 60 vs 60 – pugs( u just insta die).

I would say it was 25-35 on our side kitten on their side and eventually even sides…
And sorry to say but if you cant find out how to hit the backline reroll cause you are a bad frontline anyway…or get a descent commander… one that doenat just yell push right jnto them and bomb… cause that will make you die…but there are ways around that strategy..
And yesterday on most fights i had…they had a lot of ranged dps and our frontline still managed to get right where we needed to get and BOMB the kitten out of them… just likevthey did to us some time later on the next fight…
It is a matter of who stay focused and does everything more coordinated..but with one basic difference..
Every bomb from the frontline now REALLY matters and you MUST avoid them if you are ranged…and you MUST land them if you are melee…
Quite simple

Yeah against similar numbers it is fine Next thing is that I fought agianst TA lot of times and survived till the end so I’m not such bad “frontliner”( wtf is this? Some NA type of MT?). Next thing is that u can’t roll line u can get pass it with stab or go around – going away form ur rl means u die instantly U also miss the point. We are talking baout zerg vs blob fights not zerg vs zerg cos here u basically have similar numbers and similar stuff

root.2859:

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

No one ever had permastab though, your comment is bull. Melee groups ran 2 guards for stability, that rotated it through courage and stand your ground cooldowns. Thast 16 seconds total of stability if you did it one after another at once, but thats not also considering that courage has a huge cooldown.

The point is, no one ever had permastability unless you ran 4 guard parties which no good guild did. People did time their stability. The complaints about people saying stability was too OP are absolutely ignorant. Melee were by no means OP because of how easy it was to get them killed by boon ripping them. Corrupt boon is such a powerful aids skill you have no clue how easy it is to kill someone if you use it on them at the right time, like when you fire off your AOE spike.

Not like Necro ever had great stability… Or was fighting head on with dagger, not sitting on the back, waiting for cooldowns.

Rym.1469:

Not like Necro ever had great stability… Or was fighting head on with dagger, not sitting on the back, waiting for cooldowns.

Ya foot in the grave and Rock Solid are super weak now more so then before. Something a lot of ppl do not seem to get that every class is weaker to hard cc now not just melee classes. Though i think caster where not made to have good counter hard cc though ele “can” over ok stab.

Over all it seems ok lines hard cc should not be a easy thing to get past there needs to be some type of give and take for long cd that ppl must go over to do something. The class hit hardest is War all other classes got better.

The stab change is fine.

Its anets ridiculous strategy to try to balance wvw with pvp changes.

SEPARATE PVP AND WVW

WORST change ever, totally favors the bigger numbers, cant stop or slow down the Zergs now. Stab change ruined the game and I dont see any new Meta that will change this and hope for a re-roll…

Ravezaar.4951:

WORST change ever, totally favors the bigger numbers, cant stop or slow down the Zergs now. Stab change ruined the game and I dont see any new Meta that will change this and hope for a re-roll…

Sooooooo you can’t see a new meta changing things two days after the patch? I wish I had this knowledge of the game.

Give it time.

Stand The Wall.6987:

The stab change is fine.

Its anets ridiculous strategy to try to balance wvw with pvp changes.

SEPARATE PVP AND WVW

One more time: this is a WvW balance change. Apart from transformation elites, nothing changed in pvp.

rainisword.7860:

The point is, no one ever had permastability unless you ran 4 guard parties which no good guild did.

Good guilds never had to because it was never needed. Warriors brought their own personal stability + Shake It Off (ha-ha-ha shake it off… sorry). You only needed Stability on impact, that’s why more than two guardians per party was useless. Stability was OP because with only two guardians, five people could charge through a thousand static fields.

When Anet does mass WvW internal testing they have 5 PvE devs face off vs 5 ppl from there concept-art team

@Sorel yes it can already be seen, when all me and my Guild does is WvW… we feared this change and its sadly bin all we feared and more.

Sorel.4870:

Stand The Wall.6987:

The stab change is fine.

Its anets ridiculous strategy to try to balance wvw with pvp changes.

SEPARATE PVP AND WVW

One more time: this is a WvW balance change. Apart from transformation elites, nothing changed in pvp.

How exactly is this a balance change? Do you understand what balance is? There was no balance whatsoever done, stability was nerfed outright, durations and cooldowns were not changed to compensate. CC skills/traits and cripples, immobilizes, chills were not changed either. And what do you mean nothing else changed in PvP? All the skills/traits that were nerfed were affected across gamemodes, including pvp not just the elites.

X T D.6458:

How exactly is this a balance change? Do you understand what balance is? There was no balance whatsoever done, stability was nerfed outright, durations and cooldowns were not changed to compensate. CC skills/traits and cripples, immobilizes, chills were not changed either. And what do you mean nothing else changed in PvP? All the skills/traits that were nerfed were affected across gamemodes, including pvp not just the elites.

Balance in the context of a pvp game just means adjusting the utility an element of gameplay provides (here a boon). That’s what was just done, so it’s a balance change. Whether you like it or not doesn’t really affect the definition of the term.

When I say pvp wasn’t affected, I don’t mean the changes weren’t applied there. They were, but besides from elites, they had no impact on the gameplay so far. I’ve not seen a single thief spamming #4 on pistol ten times to get rid of a 6s stability, that would be ridiculous. In pvp, boon stripping is still a better choice against stability in every case (with the noticeable exception of the Foot In The Grave trait, which I hope they will buff soon). The number of stacks given is too big to be removed in pvp: it’s meant to affect WvW without affecting pvp. We can discuss (and boy, we did) whether the change was a good idea or not, but you have to acknowledge that Anet was smart in the way they made it affect only WvW despite it being applied through all game modes.

Simple math in WvW the more CC you place on the targets the more Stab-stax get stripped in faster time = the more players you have on your side the better wich favors Zergs even further and this was gonna be a counter to Zergs. I think the last braincell just packed his bag at there office and walked out the door….

I’m wondering how some people functioned on the frontline before the change if the new stab is a deal breaker. Did you really just into the opposing train without worrying about evading damage and CC because of your stab? If so then the old stab needed to go because it encouraged bad habits.

Stab didn’t go anywhere, you actually have to be away of what’s going on around you now. Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing. Some peo0le act like it was their stab that was changed, not everyone’s.

The groups that adapt and don’t settle with this “pirate meta” (who the hell came up with that) are going to be ones who wipe the floor with zergs.

Melee is not dead, but it is more difficult to play.

I share the concerns about wvw open field fights turning into mostly ranged fighting. In ranged vs ranged fighting either nobody dies or the least patient group dies… Those fights aren’t fun for anybody.

Maybe they could keep the stacks mechanic on it, but increase the duration on certain stability skills slightly? Maybe they could slightly increase the number of stacks? We’ll all have to play this for a little longer to get a better feel for it…

Ravezaar.4951:

When Anet does mass WvW internal testing they have 5 PvE devs face off vs 5 ppl from there concept-art team

@Sorel yes it can already be seen, when all me and my Guild does is WvW… we feared this change and its sadly bin all we feared and more.

PacoXI.7690:

I’m wondering how some people functioned on the frontline before the change if the new stab is a deal breaker. Did you really just into the opposing train without worrying about evading damage and CC because of your stab? If so then the old stab needed to go because it encouraged bad habits.

Stab didn’t go anywhere, you actually have to be away of what’s going on around you now. Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing. Some peo0le act like it was their stab that was changed, not everyone’s.

The groups that adapt and don’t settle with this “pirate meta” (who the hell came up with that) are going to be ones who wipe the floor with zergs.

What the old Stab encouraged is a different in tactics. Stab meant you couldn’t stop them was on so you had to, as you say, discourage them from being in an area by blapping it with damage. Then, as they survive because they are “bad” as you imply, they’re now vulnerable to CC’s and normal game play.

What the new Stab encourages is the opposite of that. First you blow your CC’s to strip them of Stability and get them controlled and then you blap them with your burst damage they can’t get out of.

That is the problem. Stab is essentially worthless now in the new unlimited CC heavy meta developing forcing people to “pirate ship” each other if you don’t have the numbers to just run over them.

If everything is a “ranged meta”, shouldn’t groups that have lots of projectile hate (feedback, swirling winds, wall of reflection, traited mes focus) and that stack retal be the natural counter? Projectile hate is an invuln to most ranged damage other than ground-targeted aoes, and a group balled up with retal benefits from the 5 target limit and deals massive damage back to the caster. It doesn’t matter if you are cc’d if you are still doing more damage than you are taking. So maybe melee focuses more on stacking retal, or retal AND might now.

If that isn’t the case, then shouldn’t pull-skills like magnet be incredibly powerful to whittle down the opposition before crushing them in melee?

BlackBeard.2873:

If everything is a “ranged meta”, shouldn’t groups that have lots of projectile hate (feedback, swirling winds, wall of reflection, traited mes focus) and that stack retal be the natural counter? Projectile hate is an invuln to most ranged damage other than ground-targeted aoes, and a group balled up with retal benefits from the 5 target limit and deals massive damage back to the caster. It doesn’t matter if you are cc’d if you are still doing more damage than you are taking. So maybe melee focuses more on stacking retal, or retal AND might now.

If that isn’t the case, then shouldn’t pull-skills like magnet be incredibly powerful to whittle down the opposition before crushing them in melee?

If Projectiles were the big deal, but they aren’t (yet).

The big deal is GTAOE effects like Wells, Lava Font, etc which is why everyone is talking up Necros and Elementalists at the moment. Might stacking is always going to be big because it’s a raw DPS upgrade.

Only pull skills with good range are single target and mostly projectile based.

Kodiak.3281:

The big deal is GTAOE effects like Wells, Lava Font, etc which is why everyone is talking up Necros and Elementalists at the moment. Might stacking is always going to be big because it’s a raw DPS upgrade.

So don’t you just stack retal, ball-up (to abuse the 5-person aoe limit), and drop heals while prancing in the aoes?

Wasn’t retal always the counter to long-range aoes? You need the frontline to break up the retaliation ball, no?

BlackBeard.2873:

So don’t you just stack retal, ball-up (to abuse the 5-person aoe limit), and drop heals while prancing in the aoes?

This has never been a thing that good groups do, just like how good groups never had 100% stability uptime.

Trying to ‘abuse’ the 5 person aoe limit is a great way to wipe.

Coldtart.4785:

BlackBeard.2873:

So don’t you just stack retal, ball-up (to abuse the 5-person aoe limit), and drop heals while prancing in the aoes?

This has never been a thing that good groups do, just like how good groups never had 100% stability uptime.

Trying to ‘abuse’ the 5 person aoe limit is a great way to wipe.

This guy is 100% right.

Balling up and sitting in AOE’s is absolutely absurd and you’ll get wiped in no time flat to any decent group. Retaliation is only good at discouraging glassy builds (IE: Glassy Elementalists) who get the big idea to go glassy and see big numbers when they AOE but have no survivability to speak of and end up being rallybots instead.

PacoXI.7690:

Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing.

What does this mean? I can’t even…

runeblade.7514:

PacoXI.7690:

Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing.

What does this mean? I can’t even…

who knows…maybe this guy is a stability expert.

PacoXI.7690:

I’m wondering how some people functioned on the frontline before the change if the new stab is a deal breaker. Did you really just into the opposing train without worrying about evading damage and CC because of your stab? If so then the old stab needed to go because it encouraged bad habits.

Stab didn’t go anywhere, you actually have to be away of what’s going on around you now. Your shouldn’t be running blindingly into CCs in the first place. If anything you eat CC so your backline/damage can do its thing. Some peo0le act like it was their stab that was changed, not everyone’s.

The groups that adapt and don’t settle with this “pirate meta” (who the hell came up with that) are going to be ones who wipe the floor with zergs.

We had to run blindly into cc’s because we never wanted to look at each other for 15 minutes before actually pressing a single button. I’m playing GW2 for fun fast paced action-orientated combat. Not “yawn, have we pushed yet?” gameplay. I also dislike dying.

Trigger Warning

Players that main PvP are the ones favoring this update. Players that say this update is " a good thing because the meta is stale" are bad at WvW and haven’t played it “competitively”. As for the guilds that raid and do TDM in OS : PIRATE SHIP NEEDS TO BE SHOT DOWN, THANK YOU AMERICANS FOR MAKING IT MAINSTREAM. AND THANK YOU EGONIGMA FOR USING IT IN EU. ME AND TWO OF MY MATES DISLIKE YOU. A LOT.

Trigger Over

Now before I get shot down and salted upon let me clarify : I’m just a paying customer that was just informed that my favored game mode has been changed quite drastically by altering one game mechanic. I don’t know the reason for this change as I felt that specific mechanic was well balanced as I never felt it was “OP” or a “Trash tier buff”. Only people maining WvW that are liking this update are the members of the less-used classes who think they’ll be relevant now.

CU hypetrain is leaving, anyone wants tickets?

So a thought process for our guards is now to run Hallowed Ground in line with out other main skills. Substitute one of the shouts like hold the line and run SYG, purg and hallowed or some variant of the combination. Though it might not solve the whole issue of stab stripping it does allow for a pulsing stability field, most helpful as the front line leaps in. Added bonus it’s a fire field as well that can be blasted as the engagement it going on. Coordinated use of this skill might be beneficial to the group as a whole. Thoughts on this?