Guild Wars 2

gavyne.6847:

I can’t say whether I prefer pre-stability changes or post-stability changes. But what I’ll say is that changes like these make the game interesting by forcing players to adapt, make changes to their spec, and likely play some other classes. People have cried about the lack of changes in WvW for a very long time. Here we get a change that forces people to look at battles a bit differently. We’re getting what we asked for, even if we didn’t ask specifically for changes to stability.

So, I like changes, I’ve embraced it. The commanders I see having issues are the ones still going “ok we’re rushing, 3, 2, 1….omg this hurts I need stability!@#” What many don’t realize is that stability changes affect everybody. So while you think guardians & warriors have it worse now upon initial charge, try being ranged and getting run over by a well flanked melee train on them. They’ll get rekt now more than ever, talk about being bounced and tossed about.

I’ve seen commanders that have adapted change their driving styles, and run more creative tactics than just “ok stack, and we push all the way 3, 2, 1”.

So your unorganized blob was hit by an organized guild. What’s the issue here?

If if was blob vs blob, you all would just be running through each other. This sort of head vs head smashing isn’t fun or interesting at all. People want there blobs to be organized but that’s not going to be even remotely possible with no in-game utilities for commanders or even with voice comms.

blakdoxa.7520:

So your unorganized blob was hit by an organized guild. What’s the issue here?

If if was blob vs blob, you all would just be running through each other. This sort of head vs head smashing isn’t fun or interesting at all. People want there blobs to be organized but that’s not going to be even remotely possible with no in-game utilities for commanders or even with voice comms.

You either quoted the wrong post or misunderstood my post.

It is pretty clear that most of the poeple that think this change is a good thing do not really participate in high end, highly organized raiding aspect of the game and are probably pugs that nuthug a commander then wonder why a group of people half their size just wiped their kittens all over the floor.

It is the same people saying it is a L2P issue and whined to anet to do something about these awful meanies and their awful coordination and practiced play.

You got your wish.

The one thing that points to this change being absurd is the fact that a 20 man group can’t push into an omni blob and keep any semblence of order, and not because the omni blob “should” win or the omni blobs are clearly the better players, but because at a certain point it becomes mathematically impossible for the smaller group to keep stab up and mathematically impossible for them to then remove all of the omni blobs stacks, because it is a numbers game now, not a skill game.

I think the dumbest argument is the stab had no “counter” argument. Well now there is only soft stability and there is soft CCs and hard CCs. That is honestly a pretty ridiculous state for the game to be in.

It favours numbers not skill, that alone is argument enough to know that this change is a fail for WvW. Now it’s low risk, high reward play which is pretty boring for a game mode like this.
Considering how the new map will look like I don’t understand why this is even a thing.
Even for PVE it was unnecessary because when do you even use stability in PVE?

WvW will slowly turn into another EOTM with this change, PPT and ktrain.

nexusone.2367:

It favours numbers not skill, that alone is argument enough to know that this change is a fail for WvW. Now it’s low risk, high reward play which is pretty boring for a game mode like this.
Considering how the new map will look like I don’t understand why this is even a thing.
Even for PVE it was unnecessary because when do you even use stability in PVE?

Well no what most ppl would say is a counter a true counter to a zerg is hitting a big group all at once. Say if lava faun had no aoe cap now by dropping this on a zerg you make them need to spread out or they will all get hit. That what lines for the stab changes is doing its making some spells and ability have no cap that are very powerful if ppl stay very blobly trying to drop the dmg of most ability that cap at 5.

Also please stop using the world “pve” as some type of boogie man wvw need some level of pve or it would be who ever has the most simply wins. Or it would be so boring with in the first few months that no one would play it becuse every one has done every thing and fought every one already. You got to give a reason to fight ppl do not fight for nothing.
That and the new maps have no more pve then the old bl but they do have less pve that is about making your self stronger then the old bl.

Added note: PvE is the life blood of MMORPGs with out it your game simply will never get big nor will it last long.

hedix.1986:

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

I guess the problem with “adapt” is that it’s largely a meaningless, substance-less argument, because ultimately it can be applied to anything without addressing the issue itself. This isn’t really a issue with agreeing or disagreeing with changes. I mean, if they removed WvW, people could “adapt” by going EOTM. The point here is that people simply don’t like the changes and they adapted to what they consider an inferior style of gameplay.

ArchonWing.9480:

hedix.1986:

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

I guess the problem with “adapt” is that it’s largely a meaningless, substance-less argument, because ultimately it can be applied to anything without addressing the issue itself. This isn’t really a issue with agreeing or disagreeing with changes. I mean, if they removed WvW, people could “adapt” by going EOTM. The point here is that people simply don’t like the changes and they adapted to what they consider an inferior style of gameplay.

People do like the changes as well. Seems to me that it is mostly guardians and warriors complaining about the changes.

coglin.1867:

ArchonWing.9480:

hedix.1986:

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

I guess the problem with “adapt” is that it’s largely a meaningless, substance-less argument, because ultimately it can be applied to anything without addressing the issue itself. This isn’t really a issue with agreeing or disagreeing with changes. I mean, if they removed WvW, people could “adapt” by going EOTM. The point here is that people simply don’t like the changes and they adapted to what they consider an inferior style of gameplay.

People do like the changes as well. Seems to me that it is mostly guardians and warriors complaining about the changes.

That only makes sense, as it affects them the most, and one of them doesn’t really have a viable ranged option.

Though it is funny because necros had their only real form of stability smashed into the ground.

ArchonWing.9480:

coglin.1867:

ArchonWing.9480:

hedix.1986:

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

I guess the problem with “adapt” is that it’s largely a meaningless, substance-less argument, because ultimately it can be applied to anything without addressing the issue itself. This isn’t really a issue with agreeing or disagreeing with changes. I mean, if they removed WvW, people could “adapt” by going EOTM. The point here is that people simply don’t like the changes and they adapted to what they consider an inferior style of gameplay.

People do like the changes as well. Seems to me that it is mostly guardians and warriors complaining about the changes.

That only makes sense, as it affects them the most, and one of them doesn’t really have a viable ranged option.

Though it is funny because necros had their only real form of stability smashed into the ground.

Lol wait till you hear about what happened to flesh golem

Jski.6180:

nexusone.2367:

It favours numbers not skill, that alone is argument enough to know that this change is a fail for WvW. Now it’s low risk, high reward play which is pretty boring for a game mode like this.
Considering how the new map will look like I don’t understand why this is even a thing.
Even for PVE it was unnecessary because when do you even use stability in PVE?

Well no what most ppl would say is a counter a true counter to a zerg is hitting a big group all at once. Say if lava faun had no aoe cap now by dropping this on a zerg you make them need to spread out or they will all get hit. That what lines for the stab changes is doing its making some spells and ability have no cap that are very powerful if ppl stay very blobly trying to drop the dmg of most ability that cap at 5.

Also please stop using the world “pve” as some type of boogie man wvw need some level of pve or it would be who ever has the most simply wins. Or it would be so boring with in the first few months that no one would play it becuse every one has done every thing and fought every one already. You got to give a reason to fight ppl do not fight for nothing.
That and the new maps have no more pve then the old bl but they do have less pve that is about making your self stronger then the old bl.

Added note: PvE is the life blood of MMORPGs with out it your game simply will never get big nor will it last long.

I’m using it because I wonder why they made they change and I can’t come up why, there was no bad mouthing there being a pver myself. Maybe better stop thinking that every time pve is mentioned here that means something bad. It goes both ways you know.

Anyway, my point is, you don’t win a fight because your group has stability but you will certainly lose it when you don’t have some at all. With the current system it’s more or less who can place lines and cc better. Fighting in a choke point as a smaller group (who might not even have access to that much ranged cc) is almost impossible now.

Zetsumei.4975:

ArchonWing.9480:

coglin.1867:

ArchonWing.9480:

hedix.1986:

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

I guess the problem with “adapt” is that it’s largely a meaningless, substance-less argument, because ultimately it can be applied to anything without addressing the issue itself. This isn’t really a issue with agreeing or disagreeing with changes. I mean, if they removed WvW, people could “adapt” by going EOTM. The point here is that people simply don’t like the changes and they adapted to what they consider an inferior style of gameplay.

People do like the changes as well. Seems to me that it is mostly guardians and warriors complaining about the changes.

That only makes sense, as it affects them the most, and one of them doesn’t really have a viable ranged option.

Though it is funny because necros had their only real form of stability smashed into the ground.

Lol wait till you hear about what happened to flesh golem

Oh dear, thankfully I no longer use that.

But yea, I guess it’s pretty crazy that a necro GM trait would grant 1 measly stack of stab every 3 seconds, or a guardian master trait does the same thing for an elite skill that leaves you highly vulnerable. Or Balanced stance giving 5 stacks of stability (what? Look at the cooldown!). From a game design perspective in any real situation, it just seems so unreasonable. Or how about toss elixir B that doesn’t prioritize yourself?

I mean, I play 7 out of 8 classes. I also have played them with builds that include low or no stab uptime. I mean, my first forray into wvw was on a necro wearing that pve zerk gear. I have a good idea of how each feels, so it’s not like I’m clamoring for some kind of special favor.

But these are issues that can’t just be handwaved away by some slogan.

Sorenstam Blackrose.8425:

hedix.1986:

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”.

Bingo.

Got any good shanties?

Might I recommend Scottish pirate metal Alestorm?
Now, while those guys are fun, and I generally like pirates, pirateship is the worst thing that happened to WvW.

Stability was never owerpowered in the first place. Every normal raid group/guild had 2 guards in it, 3 guards max… that way the party was able to cover for other people with stab, such as worker warriors or necros.

The first stab nerf came with reduction of boon duration… while before the patch (I think it was last year in spring) guards were able to get 75% boon duration and in that way 2 guards were capable of what many of you might call MTs owerpowered perma stab…
I assure you this is no longer possible, the guardians can’t get more than 12 seconds of stab from shouts, maybe a bit more from F3 – and that’s it. I have no idea where people who claim the stab nerf was necessary get their info and opinions, stab was never owerpowered, not after the boon duration nerf…
With 2, or even if you had 3 guards, there were still huge gaps where MT had no stability… if you were patient and dropped your line 15 seconds into the fight I guarantee you CCd at least a handful people…

Also, if you are necro, target guard, put spinal shivers and corrupt boon on him and he can have all the stab in the world and he will still die in the first CC bomb… meta guard has one break stun every 24 seconds which he, due to the needs of the party, uses on cd instead of using it as his personal breakstun…

Don’t want to be rude or anything but this change drastically nerfed capabilities of melee setups for certain classes which I think is not balancing imo… I recall that when I started WvWing what I encountered the most were hammertrains – or basically heavy melee setup with only handful of eles/necros/ranged players in general… recently it moved more towards hybrid melee/ranged setup…

But now with stab changes its pure ranged setup, and you can say whatever you want in terms of balancing, nerfing and changing stuff – without melee, the fights are insanely stale, static and non-dynamic, which, in simple terms and compared to what players experience beforehand, means incredibly boring and dull…

Joey.2769:

Sorel.4870:

@coglin: could you please post your engineer build, or is it a secret (mp me wink wink)? I use my engineer mainly for roaming, but I would be interested in a zerg build.

What I’ve been using. Could take slick shoes instead of rocket….but I enjoy rocket as an oh $#!t I’m too close. Also, I use the p/sh because extra blocks.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpEr9dxkLseNSbBFylWRRGlp85CEgjC-TFCFwAy2fIl6PNViB4EAcVJISlHCeAAZ0DQKgi0aB-w

Thank you! Just a question: why don’t you take one of the protection giving traits? Protection Injection and Protective Shield don’t work in zergs? I especially say that because you have 4 points in each of these trait lines, but with peculiar trait choices.

to be honest if someone check the patch notes they tried to re-balance the new stability by giving this option to tome of courage masteries for guardians and also giving to engineers + mesmers a role for the team’s stability .

but it remains the problem of the too many cc .and ofc that many builds and skills are still problematic to use them in a mass fight .

for an example the hallowed ground could give a solution to hold a position for your team as guardian leader of a team but it can interrupted very easy and it is not instant . this is why most of guardians just using purging flames for conditions and not this skill for stability .

zinkz.7045:

Osu.6307:

Imo, Warrs got hit the hardest by the stab change. I run balanced stance, dolyak signet, and last stand which got me 24 seconds of stab before. Now, 5 seconds into a push I’m getting knocked around like a ping pong ball.

Which is a prime example of why stability was broken OP, you have all that, and then lets say you have two guards in your party with stand your ground every 24 secs, plus the stab on courage trait, and you have near permanent stability because boon stripping gets vastly outscaled in the transition from PvP to WvW by boon generation (and it isn’t in that good a place even in PvP) so is useless other than focusing the commander with corrupt boon.

Being a melee class, I have to be able to MOVE in order to be of any use whatsoever. Pardon me for being annoyed that spending 2/3 of my traits and utilities on movement related abilities is no longer enough.

You can move just fine if you avoid cc like you should. Stop following like sheep and use your own brain.

Sorel.4870:

Joey.2769:

Sorel.4870:

@coglin: could you please post your engineer build, or is it a secret (mp me wink wink)? I use my engineer mainly for roaming, but I would be interested in a zerg build.

What I’ve been using. Could take slick shoes instead of rocket….but I enjoy rocket as an oh $#!t I’m too close. Also, I use the p/sh because extra blocks.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpEr9dxkLseNSbBFylWRRGlp85CEgjC-TFCFwAy2fIl6PNViB4EAcVJISlHCeAAZ0DQKgi0aB-w

Thank you! Just a question: why don’t you take one of the protection giving traits? Protection Injection and Protective Shield don’t work in zergs? I especially say that because you have 4 points in each of these trait lines, but with peculiar trait choices.

Being so ranged, 2 blocks, having health constantly ticking and 3k armor I found the other traits more useful. This is a rough build that I’ve been testing in the new pirate meta, so please adapt as you need

Joey.2769:

Being so ranged, 2 blocks, having health constantly ticking and 3k armor I found the other traits more useful. This is a rough build that I’ve been testing in the new pirate meta, so please adapt as you need

I will, thank you for the advice!

nexusone.2367:

Jski.6180:

nexusone.2367:

It favours numbers not skill, that alone is argument enough to know that this change is a fail for WvW. Now it’s low risk, high reward play which is pretty boring for a game mode like this.
Considering how the new map will look like I don’t understand why this is even a thing.
Even for PVE it was unnecessary because when do you even use stability in PVE?

Well no what most ppl would say is a counter a true counter to a zerg is hitting a big group all at once. Say if lava faun had no aoe cap now by dropping this on a zerg you make them need to spread out or they will all get hit. That what lines for the stab changes is doing its making some spells and ability have no cap that are very powerful if ppl stay very blobly trying to drop the dmg of most ability that cap at 5.

Also please stop using the world “pve” as some type of boogie man wvw need some level of pve or it would be who ever has the most simply wins. Or it would be so boring with in the first few months that no one would play it becuse every one has done every thing and fought every one already. You got to give a reason to fight ppl do not fight for nothing.
That and the new maps have no more pve then the old bl but they do have less pve that is about making your self stronger then the old bl.

Added note: PvE is the life blood of MMORPGs with out it your game simply will never get big nor will it last long.

I’m using it because I wonder why they made they change and I can’t come up why, there was no bad mouthing there being a pver myself. Maybe better stop thinking that every time pve is mentioned here that means something bad. It goes both ways you know.

Anyway, my point is, you don’t win a fight because your group has stability but you will certainly lose it when you don’t have some at all. With the current system it’s more or less who can place lines and cc better. Fighting in a choke point as a smaller group (who might not even have access to that much ranged cc) is almost impossible now.

Because it remove an entire effect from the game and its the only thing in the game that works that way when compared to other things. Most stabs are made to be reactivity not passively so the only way to get players to use stab reactivity is to make its passive effect weaker.

Read ability to get an understanding about what they are for. If the ability has no cast time they tend to be made to be counter hard cc and they are countering hard cc you brake stuns then have an after effect of being immune to hard cc for a short time. So you do 1 of 2 things you make stab cap at a very very low duration say 3 sec making most stab ability worthless or you add in a stack system that can be removed by hard cc it self but your able to keep the max duration higher.

Please guys, since you all come here and comment on stability changes, at least write what classes are you play mainly.
Because my suspicions are, that most of you have never played this game as melee.

Sorel.4870:

Joey.2769:

Sorel.4870:

@coglin: could you please post your engineer build, or is it a secret (mp me wink wink)? I use my engineer mainly for roaming, but I would be interested in a zerg build.

What I’ve been using. Could take slick shoes instead of rocket….but I enjoy rocket as an oh $#!t I’m too close. Also, I use the p/sh because extra blocks.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpEr9dxkLseNSbBFylWRRGlp85CEgjC-TFCFwAy2fIl6PNViB4EAcVJISlHCeAAZ0DQKgi0aB-w

Thank you! Just a question: why don’t you take one of the protection giving traits? Protection Injection and Protective Shield don’t work in zergs? I especially say that because you have 4 points in each of these trait lines, but with peculiar trait choices.

Protective shield is pretty bad because it’s on such a long cooldown, but Protection Injection is quite nice especially these days. I do not like self regulating defenses because while auto-Elixir S sounds like a good idea, you lose control of all skills, and because it fires immediately, there’s a chance existing condis will cause your death.

I’ve been messing with this in light of stability not being so good… Have fun on the floor!

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpErdZxzLseNSbBNyvEGRuxp85FEgjC-TlyHABhoixJ7P4h6IJqSATKB7Rp3AXAglUG4lOAAeAABAQAu5NDAJ0wQH6NXuNHaZAK2CA-w

Granted if you mindlessly spam or position yourself badly, you’ll die instantly, but hey, that’s the fun of it. =p

Normally I’d use…

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQFAUlUUpkrlYxzLseRSbBNqwAqNIyMOlPXgAcUA-TlyHABhoixJ7P4h6IJqSATKB7Rp3AXAglUG4lOAAeAABAQAu5NDAJ0wQH6NXuNHaZAK2CA-w

Memphisjz.1405:

Love the change, nothing was more irritating than setting up a great bottleneck, only to watch the enemy melee train just Choo Choo through it like they don’t care.

There aren’t nearly enough boon-stripping skills in the game to counter the perma stability these melee trains have.

But i have the feeling i’m the only one who has a different vision of what ‘Massive WvW fights are’, 2 60-men blobs running into each other 24/7 is boring.

I wanna see massive fights like Anet demonstrates in their videos.. several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Taking an objective should be a true effort from everyone, not just 60 people smashing on a gate FTW. All this hate on the forums for defenders shooting AC at you etc. Well, if the defenders took the time to properly siege a tower, I believe it to me more than fair that it should be hard to take. Similarly, stability shouldn’t just be a Press to Win button, allowing you to ignore a nice bottleneck trap

Your positions are contradictory. You favor a change that increases blobs but you want to see more smaller man combat which isn’t possible with the large amount of uncounterable CC from blobs.

Which do you want to see more?

Memphisjz.1405:

…several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Sadly it looks like this is the direction Anet wants to go. The uproar is because there are many guilds that patrol a map looking for enemies to battle. Because it’s fun to fight and test your mettle against opposing forces equal or larger in size, not utilizing siege play… just mano a mano. Not everyone enjoys the siege wars aspect. We all try to get what we like out of the game.

If we go down the list in the way the stab changes affect various size engagements:

pug blob vs. pug blob: the larger blob always had an advantage, now they have an even bigger advantage.

smaller guild group vs. pug blob: the change makes it much harder on the smaller guild group.

guild group vs. guild group: optimal play here is now pirate ship meta, near as I can tell, even more so than before. The role of melee is to secure downs and peel for casters, not to push in.

havoc/roaming: not much change here.

I don’t see any of these changes as positive. The most charitable thing I can think to say is that havoc/roaming is mostly unaffected.

Reborn.2934:

to be honest if someone check the patch notes they tried to re-balance the new stability by giving this option to tome of courage masteries for guardians and also giving to engineers + mesmers a role for the team’s stability .

but it remains the problem of the too many cc .and ofc that many builds and skills are still problematic to use them in a mass fight .

for an example the hallowed ground could give a solution to hold a position for your team as guardian leader of a team but it can interrupted very easy and it is not instant . this is why most of guardians just using purging flames for conditions and not this skill for stability .

i tested today the mantra for stability . it has very close range effect and can not worked inside battle to help your melle group have extra stability when they need it …..

but engie toss elixir is good . engie has control where to throw the stability and he can run all the times next to melle if he has good armor

Hexin.5603:

Memphisjz.1405:

…several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Sadly it looks like this is the direction Anet wants to go. The uproar is because there are many guilds that patrol a map looking for enemies to battle. Because it’s fun to fight and test your mettle against opposing forces equal or larger in size, not utilizing siege play… just mano a mano. Not everyone enjoys the siege wars aspect. We all try to get what we like out of the game.

This is what I thought was the point of the change. You can break your zergs into smaller groups and take multiple objectives and have better smaller scale fights.

But why do that when you can run a 60+ zerg and karma train the map.

blakdoxa.7520:

Hexin.5603:

Memphisjz.1405:

…several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Sadly it looks like this is the direction Anet wants to go. The uproar is because there are many guilds that patrol a map looking for enemies to battle. Because it’s fun to fight and test your mettle against opposing forces equal or larger in size, not utilizing siege play… just mano a mano. Not everyone enjoys the siege wars aspect. We all try to get what we like out of the game.

This is what I thought was the point of the change. You can break your zergs into smaller groups and take multiple objectives and have better smaller scale fights.

But why do that when you can run a 60+ zerg and karma train the map.

Or, you break your zerg into smaller groups and have to constantly run away from 60+ because you have no real way to beat them. Or they ignore you and you pve a tower, such fun.

Blix.8021:

blakdoxa.7520:

Hexin.5603:

Memphisjz.1405:

…several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Sadly it looks like this is the direction Anet wants to go. The uproar is because there are many guilds that patrol a map looking for enemies to battle. Because it’s fun to fight and test your mettle against opposing forces equal or larger in size, not utilizing siege play… just mano a mano. Not everyone enjoys the siege wars aspect. We all try to get what we like out of the game.

This is what I thought was the point of the change. You can break your zergs into smaller groups and take multiple objectives and have better smaller scale fights.

But why do that when you can run a 60+ zerg and karma train the map.

Or, you break your zerg into smaller groups and have to constantly run away from 60+ because you have no real way to beat them. Or they ignore you and you pve a tower, such fun.

Exactly.
But check this. If you know where the 60+ blob is you know where they aren’t. So you can 5-man or 10-man cap anywhere else. But you don’t run into fights and are basically playing PPT wars.

Sounds borning.

Yougottawanna.7420:

If we go down the list in the way the stab changes affect various size engagements:

pug blob vs. pug blob: the larger blob always had an advantage, now they have an even bigger advantage.

smaller guild group vs. pug blob: the change makes it much harder on the smaller guild group.

guild group vs. guild group: optimal play here is now pirate ship meta, near as I can tell, even more so than before. The role of melee is to secure downs and peel for casters, not to push in.

havoc/roaming: not much change here.

I don’t see any of these changes as positive. The most charitable thing I can think to say is that havoc/roaming is mostly unaffected.

If you feel that is optimal play for guild groups, iI feel you should stop regurgitating what you read on the forums, take a step away from mimicking the buzz words and try some things out yourself. My experience running a guild group suggest your so called meta behavior is Inaccurate. Personally, I feel any e claiming a defined meta in under a week to be comical in itself.

nobody had or will cut his karma train to smaller pieces for any reason if there is not a single debuff to create him a problem ….

until the debuff the bigger blob always win !

coglin.1867:

Yougottawanna.7420:

If we go down the list in the way the stab changes affect various size engagements:

pug blob vs. pug blob: the larger blob always had an advantage, now they have an even bigger advantage.

smaller guild group vs. pug blob: the change makes it much harder on the smaller guild group.

guild group vs. guild group: optimal play here is now pirate ship meta, near as I can tell, even more so than before. The role of melee is to secure downs and peel for casters, not to push in.

havoc/roaming: not much change here.

I don’t see any of these changes as positive. The most charitable thing I can think to say is that havoc/roaming is mostly unaffected.

If you feel that is optimal play for guild groups, iI feel you should stop regurgitating what you read on the forums, take a step away from mimicking the buzz words and try some things out yourself. My experience running a guild group suggest your so called meta behavior is Inaccurate. Personally, I feel any e claiming a defined meta in under a week to be comical in itself.

Under a week? Ranged meta has existed in some form since VR and EP back in like 2013. I’m not regurgitating or mimicking anything, and you have no basis for accusing me of doing so.

This so-called “buzz word” (pirate ship) has been around for months before the stab change. The fact that you hadn’t heard of it doesn’t make it a new thing.

Your suggesting it was a common buzz word on the forums before when describing the meta? I don’t by that.

As well, since your making it about you. I see no post in your post history in which you used the term once before the change. Personally I find that to be extremely convincing as a bases to suggest you are indeed doing as suggested. I don’t know about everyone else, but all I have seen on the forums was discussion of GWEN meta. This so called pirate ship buzz word strikes me as new and used around the stab changes.

After a few hours every evening since the change, I guess ranged play has some more value in larger fights. My experience thoug, suggests that it alone, is by no means optimal.

This stability change was a colossal mistake.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Your suggesting it was a common buzz word on the forums before when describing the meta? I don’t by that.

As well, since your making it about you. I see no post in your post history in which you used the term once before the change. Personally I find that to be extremely convincing as a bases to suggest you are indeed doing as suggested. I don’t know about everyone else, but all I have seen on the forums was discussion of GWEN meta. This so called pirate ship buzz word strikes me as new and used around the stab changes.

After a few hours every evening since the change, I guess ranged play has some more value in larger fights. My experience thoug, suggests that it alone, is by no means optimal.

“Making it about me”? He was one who accused me of repeating buzzwords. What’s more, I don’t often post on these forums, my last post not relating to the stability change was five months ago.

You honestly think the term “pirate ship” was made up in the last few days? Let me save you some time: no it wasn’t. Ask anyone who’s familiar with the GvG scene.

The servers are officially 10 times laggier because oft he new stability stacks. The only reason it was impossible to kill a blob tonight, was not because of stability, but because of the insane unplayable lag caused by what is probably the new stability stacks.

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

THIS. I can understand if they wanted to balance stability. All you need to do is make it so it doesn’t stack duration. Then you HAVE to time your stability skills in a group and you are rewarded for coordination. Otherwise people use their stab at the same time and bad things happen.

Currently, I am not sure I will be playing my guard in a support role in WvW anymore.

blakdoxa.7520:

Exactly.
But check this. If you know where the 60+ blob is you know where they aren’t. So you can 5-man or 10-man cap anywhere else. But you don’t run into fights and are basically playing PPT wars.

Sounds borning.

In t1 at least, people defend almost everything. To counter the amount of siege (and siege disablers) you need numbers – numbers counter defensive siege (more supply for counter-siege, more meteor showers, more aoe healing, etc.). Even if defenders can’t handle the attacking force alone, they buy more than enough time for the main zerg to come clean up the mess. Maybe what you’re suggesting works for lower tiers, but it’s inapplicable to t1.

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.

zinkz.7045:

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.

Except it rewards coordination and penalizes mindless button mashing. I fail to see how that has no impact on balance. If the problem was melee trains being unstoppable because button mashing automatically stacked the duration then removing duration stacking fixes that problem. The game SHOULD reward coordination. The current changes to stability do the opposite, in fact. The changes reward mindless CCing…the very thing Stability is there to control.

drgast.1469:

zinkz.7045:

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.

Except it rewards coordination and penalizes mindless button mashing. I fail to see how that has no impact on balance. If the problem was melee trains being unstoppable because button mashing automatically stacked the duration then removing duration stacking fixes that problem. The game SHOULD reward coordination. The current changes to stability do the opposite, in fact. The changes reward mindless CCing…the very thing Stability is there to control.

It makes no difference because if the duration is the same when you rotate it (which isn’t hard, I’ve been in public zergs where the commander shouts “stab 1”, “stab 2”, it is hardly SC2 is it) then hard CC is still laughably ineffective, which is why stability was OP.

The changes may have gone too far the other way, but that does not alter that stability was way too powerful in WvW large groups before.

zinkz.7045:

drgast.1469:

zinkz.7045:

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.

Except it rewards coordination and penalizes mindless button mashing. I fail to see how that has no impact on balance. If the problem was melee trains being unstoppable because button mashing automatically stacked the duration then removing duration stacking fixes that problem. The game SHOULD reward coordination. The current changes to stability do the opposite, in fact. The changes reward mindless CCing…the very thing Stability is there to control.

It makes no difference because if the duration is the same when you rotate it (which isn’t hard, I’ve been in public zergs where the commander shouts “stab 1”, “stab 2”, it is hardly SC2 is it) then hard CC is still laughably ineffective, which is why stability was OP.

The changes may have gone too far the other way, but that does not alter that stability was way too powerful in WvW large groups before.

Why would a public zerg commander want rotating stability before? That makes no sense. At all. Stab was either up or it wasn’t. You’re welcome to your opinion, but it is wrong lol. A change to removing stacking duration would have required coordination, no matter how easy. Coordination > Mindless button mashing…any day, every day.

drgast.1469:

Why would a public zerg commander want rotating stability before? That makes no sense. At all. Stab was either up or it wasn’t. You’re welcome to your opinion, but it is wrong lol. A change to removing stacking duration would have required coordination, no matter how easy. Coordination > Mindless button mashing…any day, every day.

The same reasons that a WvW / GvG guild rotates stability, for example commanders getting focused by necros using corrupt boon, no good having 15 secs of stability stacked, if it gets corrupted, hence you rotate.

As “convincing” an argument that “you are wrong” is, all you’ve done is avoid answering my point, which speaks volumes, the duration would be the same when you rotated stab, so nothing changes, the stability uptime would still be the same, so hard CC would still be virtually useless and stability still OP.

xev.9476:

In t1 at least, people defend almost everything. To counter the amount of siege (and siege disablers) you need numbers – numbers counter defensive siege (more supply for counter-siege, more meteor showers, more aoe healing, etc.). Even if defenders can’t handle the attacking force alone, they buy more than enough time for the main zerg to come clean up the mess. Maybe what you’re suggesting works for lower tiers, but it’s inapplicable to t1.

Maybe anet is trying to break up the higher tier servers. T1 is practically heading towards a standstill where everyone is going to turtle up and not fight unless the odds are heavily weighed in one’s favor.

zinkz.7045:

It makes no difference because if the duration is the same when you rotate it (which isn’t hard, I’ve been in public zergs where the commander shouts “stab 1”, “stab 2”, it is hardly SC2 is it) then hard CC is still laughably ineffective, which is why stability was OP.

The changes may have gone too far the other way, but that does not alter that stability was way too powerful in WvW large groups before.

I have not even remotely heard of this happening with a pugmander unless a raiding guild picked up pugs to bolster themselves.

Then you need better commanders if you have never heard of that happening. I feel bad for your server in that case.

drgast.1469:

Why would a public zerg commander want rotating stability for? That makes no sense. At all. Stab was either up or it wasn’t. You’re welcome to your opinion, but it is wrong lol. A change to removing stacking duration would have required coordination, no matter how easy. Coordination > Mindless button mashing…any day, every day.

If you need this explained to you, you really have no business being in a stability discussion thread in my opinion.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Then you need better commanders if you have never heard of that happening. I feel bad for your server in that case.

Like I said I only see this this reasonably happening if you have a guild raid leading the pug blob. Though it will be quite obvious as you’ll see pugs running all over the place and a cluster of players stacked on the commander, showing this odd mix of organization and disorganization. Still only a small part of the zerg would have stab. I’ve seen it before where I’d drop a line and only the commander and his group would walk through and the pugs would be lying on their backs.

Simply because they are not in your guild, does not mean they are incapable of basic coordination or orginization.

zinkz.7045:

Reborn.2934:

if they wanted to balance the stability they had only to remove the stack duration

That makes zero difference to balance, if you rotate stability you would still have the same uptime.

to have full stab party you need 5 guardians to a party . five guardians to a party means their boons and heals shared only between guardians ( almost all have 5 allies limitation )

and in this full melee party will left all other allies without stability and boons and it will do zero damage to enemies ….. bad tactic ……

ofc if all go well and they don’t loose the stability because of enemies skills ( necro , mesmer ).

if the problem was the full stability parties they had only to increase the stand your ground recast time …. with 20 more seconds in recast time no more full stability parties .

stand your ground has 24 seconds recast time trained and hallowed ground 64 seconds trained . if a guardian add trait 4 at virtues to take more stability from courage can have 81/2 seconds without boon food and 12seconds from hallowed ground .

now they can use 2 guardians as the stability carriers and use any build with full stability with both stand your ground and hallowed ground and trait in courage to create the same result to their party plus engies with toss b for emergency stability and guardians will become the stability bots ……

enjoy the build for guardians that still give full stability in their party ….. http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJAWSlsApVoFDxZIEENBDRldLsfzAWZw1FQGGAA-TFgQAMB-w

but this style will do the combat very static …. this is what anet want ?