Guild Wars 2

Well revenant is counter for ranged meta so what are you whining? It’s revenant job cc these rangers who spam 1500 range.

Junkpile.7439:

Well revenant is counter for ranged meta so what are you whining? It’s revenant job cc these rangers who spam 1500 range.

rangers are only a menace to 2-3 people if they using piercing arrows.

revenants wont do much to change ranger impact, since it is pretty low due to not enough rangers playing properly to affect a zerg battle.

the “real” ranged damage comes from ele and to a degree necro.

but since necro cannot apply stability to itself, it is wasting a “stability slot” in parties thus, liability

Prysin.8542:

Junkpile.7439:

Well revenant is counter for ranged meta so what are you whining? It’s revenant job cc these rangers who spam 1500 range.

rangers are only a menace to 2-3 people if they using piercing arrows.

revenants wont do much to change ranger impact, since it is pretty low due to not enough rangers playing properly to affect a zerg battle.

the “real” ranged damage comes from ele and to a degree necro.

but since necro cannot apply stability to itself, it is wasting a “stability slot” in parties thus, liability

Again.. you severely underestimate the damage potential of necros in zergbusting. You also apparently arent aware that the backline should not be running through the bulk of damage and CC, they are to keep to the sidelines of the fight spread out not facetanking with the melee.

Zetsumei.4975:

Prysin.8542:

Junkpile.7439:

Well revenant is counter for ranged meta so what are you whining? It’s revenant job cc these rangers who spam 1500 range.

rangers are only a menace to 2-3 people if they using piercing arrows.

revenants wont do much to change ranger impact, since it is pretty low due to not enough rangers playing properly to affect a zerg battle.

the “real” ranged damage comes from ele and to a degree necro.

but since necro cannot apply stability to itself, it is wasting a “stability slot” in parties thus, liability

Again.. you severely underestimate the damage potential of necros in zergbusting. You also apparently arent aware that the backline should not be running through the bulk of damage and CC, they are to keep to the sidelines of the fight spread out not facetanking with the melee.

Severely no other class is even in their league.

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

+1

Kraljevo.2801:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

+1

most of the people here complaining are part of small fights guilds that go zerg busting. the trouble is in these small groups zergs overwhelm your stability since they have much more cc available.

the main way to “adapt” is to play with a ton of ranged and just sit there at a distance and cast, which is incredibly boring without the jousting of melee. this has intensified the dullness of the pirate ship meta. sure it’s obvious how to adapt, it’s also way less fun than having organized melee rushes to charge with and avoid.

i’m an ele main and i would be put to sleep if i didn’t have melee pushes to evade. but that’s the new meta we’ll have to “adapt” to, sadly it won’t be fun to play for most organized fights groups.

this is the first time anet made a change that makes the game not fun.

Kraljevo.2801:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

+1

I agree.

Oobob.6754:

most of the people here complaining are part of small fights guilds that go zerg busting. the trouble is in these small groups zergs overwhelm your stability since they have much more cc available.

You know them personally, and this is your experience of their actions? Perhaps it is in everyone’s best interest if you stick to speaking for yourself and let others post their own experiences and opinions.

coglin.1867:

Kraljevo.2801:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

+1

I agree.

Oobob.6754:

most of the people here complaining are part of small fights guilds that go zerg busting. the trouble is in these small groups zergs overwhelm your stability since they have much more cc available.

You know them personally, and this is your experience of their actions? Perhaps it is in everyone’s best interest if you stick to speaking for yourself and let others post their own experiences and opinions.

sure thing, but that’s what a lot of the primary wvwvw guilds i know did, including my own (called raid early last night/taking breaks)

Kasteros.9847:

Again to sum stuff up and miss wrong interpretation. PPL AREN’T QQING ABOUT ZERGS! FFS! Understand that! All are qqing about zergs vs larger groups. It is imposible to wipe em now…

I haven’t had this problem at all. I raided with my guildies and we had like 20 and were still able to wipe +40 t2 groups.

Only in an MMO could an ability that simply lets you reliably control your own character be considered overpowered.

Eis.6984:

Only in an MMO could an ability that simply lets you reliably control your own character be considered overpowered.

Only in an MMO could people pretend that one button push cancelling 20-30 other player’s button pushes isn’t overpowered.

You’re acting like it was ok, even good, that a power was so arbitrarily binary that it made other people idiots for even thinking of playing with CC skills.

I see people lose their minds all the time that Signet of Stone is a whole 6 seconds of immunity to one aspect of play. Old stability stacked duration! Its always been ridiculously powerful and all this hand wringing and trying to claim otherwise is kinda pathetic.

Eis.6984:

Only in an MMO could an ability that simply lets you reliably control your own character be considered overpowered.

Skill, special awareness, and intelligent dodges allow this without stability. As well stability absolutely and fully “allows you to control your own character” by negating many of the CC skills. Not to mention, all of those professions with stability, have CC of their own.

Have you previously lobbied for every profession to have the equal stability of the guardian or warrior you main? Or do you only care about it when you lose some of it, still allowing you to be well ahead of the curve in comparison to other professions?

Again, if you think another player being able to control their character is overpowered the issue is you. It’s like giving your friend a controller that shorts out every 10-15 seconds then claiming you beat them because of your skill.

Crowd Control is one of the pathetic crutches of MMO PVP, and it has become so prolific that now players think it’s overpowered when another player ISN’T crowd controlled.

Eis.6984:

Again, if you think another player being able to control their character is overpowered the issue is you. It’s like giving your friend a controller that shorts out every 10-15 seconds then claiming you beat them because of your skill.

Crowd Control is one of the pathetic crutches of MMO PVP, and it has become so prolific that now players think it’s overpowered when another player ISN’T crowd controlled.

“Pathetic” crutches you say…………………..does that mean having CC in a build, defines it as a "pathetic " build"?

Some would say stability was a pathetic crutch.

Actually, if you do not dodge the CC skills, use your stun breakers properly (or build for more then one), or use spacial awareness to avoid them, then it is quit factually you.

Your welcome to go play an MMO with out CC. Good luck finding one.

Perhaps you can create your own?

Eis.6984:

Only in an MMO could an ability that simply lets you reliably control your own character be considered overpowered.

C9 wasn’t a traditional mmo but that system made it reach glory at one point,their version of stab was kind of OP when given as a buff but special due to some skills having it on 2 phases,that created great combos and encounters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIaN2s7gBu8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkcbwU11cQ

GW2 is pretty funny to me on that. You have to remember they balance on 5v5 not zerg which is far more impossible then 1v1.

now that my warrior’s stability is ruined in a blob v blob fight, do i need to run long bow and rifle for this range meta?

This stability change and new pirate ship meta just makes me want to play the World of Warships closed beta instead! Pew pew!

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Why do some people think playing in a large group = mindless? Sure there are disorganized pug zergs, but organized WvW raiding is far harder than roaming because getting 20+ good players organized and on the same page is harder than doing it with 5.

Nike.2631:

Eis.6984:

Only in an MMO could an ability that simply lets you reliably control your own character be considered overpowered.

Only in an MMO could people pretend that one button push cancelling 20-30 other player’s button pushes isn’t overpowered.

You’re acting like it was ok, even good, that a power was so arbitrarily binary that it made other people idiots for even thinking of playing with CC skills.

Why do people who argue this fail to see that CC is binary? It is a hard counter to actually playing the game.

GreyWraith.8394:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Why do some people think playing in a large group = mindless? Sure there are disorganized pug zergs, but organized WvW raiding is far harder than roaming because getting 20+ good players organized and on the same page is harder than doing it with 5.

QFT.

I’m sure all of you are going to get your 60-80 man pugs into TS and not have even a semblance of “organized blob.” It would be nice if commanders received some additional utilities to actually kitten do there job. Otherwise, it’s way easier to run a smaller organized group.

GreyWraith.8394:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Why do some people think playing in a large group = mindless? Sure there are disorganized pug zergs, but organized WvW raiding is far harder than roaming because getting 20+ good players organized and on the same page is harder than doing it with 5.

Joke reply.

Then use your “superior organization” to take advantage of the stability changes. Everyone is playing with the same mechanics, play better.

Could it be that your inflated, self-defined skill was largely predicated on a broken mechanic? If not, step up to the plate and adapt. The good players will still be the good players.

reading all the comments, and from personal experience, I can say:
RIP all melee!!!
if ur happy with 2 zergs spitting at each other to death have fun, I only play WvW and the change is the worst nightmare ever!
it’s even worse than the unfix-able lag!

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

GreyWraith.8394:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Why do some people think playing in a large group = mindless? Sure there are disorganized pug zergs, but organized WvW raiding is far harder than roaming because getting 20+ good players organized and on the same page is harder than doing it with 5.

Debatable at best sir!

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Gaab.4257:

Dirdyy.1648:

The problem is not that we r unable to adapt to a new meta.
We can of course use a new race/build/stats what so ever.

The problem is that it is NO FUN when 2 Zergs fire at each other with ranged weapons.

Ranged fights, there will be no winner.
And u can rezz u r teammate easy and there will be no loot bags for all.

What good is wvw when it s boring and the small loot will get even smaller?

Tend to agree.. pl will of course adjust.. but will it be the same level of fun in gameplay? That I’m not sure about.

Exactly.

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”. It is NOT FUN AT ALL.
The issue is that even when adapted to the new changes, the gameplay is boring, not as fast paced as melee, and it killed the gaming experience that we enjoyed.
(Waiting for Revenant is not a solution: 1) playing pirateship until HoT is boring, ppl will quit. 2) Breaking the game to force ppl to buy the expansion is a horrible move and ppl should not support it.)

necro hits hard PR target, it does not hit as many as ele. It is the combination of hard hitting marks and wells with a broad damage cover from eles that makes necros so strong.

Without others to soften targets up, targets would just run through all your DPS without even flinching. Such is the nature of wells. They pulse, so the damage is pr second.

to give people an idea. Icebow + staff ele.
Meteor shower = 24×3 targets = 72 enemies damaged with ONE skill covering a ridiculous area

Icebow 4 = 24x 5 targets (does not have reduced cap pr shard it seems) = 120 targets damaged.

so while EACH necro wells/marks hit is higher, they hit LESS players. in no way do i intend to discredit them, but more icebow and meteors will do more damage to the blob then more necros. The eles quantity of hits will surpass the necromancers quality hits.

Eles also got better support, better mobility MOAR STABILITY. strong CC.

I do like playing staff and wells necro in WvW, fun times, DS is a real joy to use because it makes it so much more forgiving. On the contrary, you leech off your allies almost as bad as rangers. Probably slightly worse since you do not have your own stability.

Please, do play your necromancer. Carry on, i dont care, just like i do not care that you do not want my ranger in the zerg. Ill play what i want, ill play it good, and if i drag peoples feet ill just switch my build around a little to remove my weaknesses. Oh, that is right, necromancers cannot do that as easily either.

See my point here?
Necromancers is not BAD, they got shafted.
By whom?
The devs.

Blame the devs for not giving you any decent stability outside a super long CD elite and a GM trait with a ICD to it….

either way, i stand firm.
If the meta no longer favors pure MT, then the next “best” thing is hybrid frontline with a more CC and support heavy mid/backline.

Id love to see engineers get a slot, they have the tools to do so. All they need is someone to stand up for em and make it happen

Closed beta will start soon. Then we have access to all new (siege) weapons, class/spezialisations and boons/conditions. Experienced and clever groups will find ways to overcome the pirateship and sink it. I have the feeling that zerg busting will be much more challenging and will require much more coordination since ever.

When and where to place stability fields via force dome? How to split the other zerg or force it in a certain direction with force wall? When should we ignite the stability bomb?

I hope that they don’t take any GvG heros in beta. They probably manage ruin whole expansion.

Belenwyn.8674:

Closed beta will start soon. Then we have access to all new (siege) weapons, class/spezialisations and boons/conditions. Experienced and clever groups will find ways to overcome the pirateship and sink it. I have the feeling that zerg busting will be much more challenging and will require much more coordination since ever.

When and where to place stability fields via force dome? How to split the other zerg or force it in a certain direction with force wall? When should we ignite the stability bomb?

just gonna have to add this.

It is not hard to break a meta, it is rather simple. Pirateship, hammer train and whatever else, it can be beaten easily.
The problem is not finding a way to beat it, it is getting others to play in such a way that you DO beat it. The problem is finding people good enough to beat something that is supposed to work for even the most mechanically and mentally challenged player. THAT is the problem.

Rangers, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmers – you can easily make a potent zerg from these classes, they will not work the same way as GWEN does, they will not have the same capabilities, their way of fighting would be drastically different.
However when it comes down to the crucial question “do they have what it takes?”, well that is going to depend on the players.

Even a pure single profession zerg can beat an equal or greater zerg, GRANTED that the players involved know what they are doing and are able to execute the strategy and tactics employed by the commander.

That being said – GL making any zerg work without a guard. That darn profession is the foundation of almost every stable zerg setup you can imagine.

Prysin.8542:

just gonna have to add this.

It is not hard to break a meta, it is rather simple. Pirateship, hammer train and whatever else, it can be beaten easily.
The problem is not finding a way to beat it, it is getting others to play in such a way that you DO beat it. The problem is finding people good enough to beat something that is supposed to work for even the most mechanically and mentally challenged player. THAT is the problem.

Rangers, Engineers, Thieves, Mesmers – you can easily make a potent zerg from these classes, they will not work the same way as GWEN does, they will not have the same capabilities, their way of fighting would be drastically different.
However when it comes down to the crucial question “do they have what it takes?”, well that is going to depend on the players.

Even a pure single profession zerg can beat an equal or greater zerg, GRANTED that the players involved know what they are doing and are able to execute the strategy and tactics employed by the commander.

That being said – GL making any zerg work without a guard. That darn profession is the foundation of almost every stable zerg setup you can imagine.

One aspect of the discussion is that WvW raid guilds are not able to zergbust as before. I assume that these guilds are highly organised with TS, set group composition and synergising builds. I further assume they exercise a lot to reach a certain level of excellence. For such a guild it should be easy to adapt to the new warfare and its instruments given by HoT. If they can’t adapt they will somehow end like the Polish cavalry against German tanks. I have the impression that the new WvW will be the new challenging group content for WvW raid guilds.

There will be harder times for PUG zergs. But I am confident that there will be some “cookie cutter builds” to have fun.

Prysin.8542:

necro hits hard PR target, it does not hit as many as ele. It is the combination of hard hitting marks and wells with a broad damage cover from eles that makes necros so strong.

Without others to soften targets up, targets would just run through all your DPS without even flinching. Such is the nature of wells. They pulse, so the damage is pr second.

to give people an idea. Icebow + staff ele.
Meteor shower = 24×3 targets = 72 enemies damaged with ONE skill covering a ridiculous area

Icebow 4 = 24x 5 targets (does not have reduced cap pr shard it seems) = 120 targets damaged.

so while EACH necro wells/marks hit is higher, they hit LESS players. in no way do i intend to discredit them, but more icebow and meteors will do more damage to the blob then more necros. The eles quantity of hits will surpass the necromancers quality hits.

Eles also got better support, better mobility MOAR STABILITY. strong CC.

I do like playing staff and wells necro in WvW, fun times, DS is a real joy to use because it makes it so much more forgiving. On the contrary, you leech off your allies almost as bad as rangers. Probably slightly worse since you do not have your own stability.

Please, do play your necromancer. Carry on, i dont care, just like i do not care that you do not want my ranger in the zerg. Ill play what i want, ill play it good, and if i drag peoples feet ill just switch my build around a little to remove my weaknesses. Oh, that is right, necromancers cannot do that as easily either.

See my point here?
Necromancers is not BAD, they got shafted.
By whom?
The devs.

Blame the devs for not giving you any decent stability outside a super long CD elite and a GM trait with a ICD to it….

either way, i stand firm.
If the meta no longer favors pure MT, then the next “best” thing is hybrid frontline with a more CC and support heavy mid/backline.

Id love to see engineers get a slot, they have the tools to do so. All they need is someone to stand up for em and make it happen

Lol you’re so lacking in knowledge of how the backline works in zergbusting I’m not going to bother explaining anymore it’ll take too long, I haven’t got that much time. It’s cute that you think you can finally push necros out of the meta in favour of rangers or engis with pure propaganda, unfortunately their arguably the most important profession to have on your team comp so you’re going to have to put in a lot more effort, but good luck ! ^^

Flyphish.6398:

GreyWraith.8394:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

Why do some people think playing in a large group = mindless? Sure there are disorganized pug zergs, but organized WvW raiding is far harder than roaming because getting 20+ good players organized and on the same page is harder than doing it with 5.

Joke reply.

Then use your “superior organization” to take advantage of the stability changes. Everyone is playing with the same mechanics, play better.

Could it be that your inflated, self-defined skill was largely predicated on a broken mechanic? If not, step up to the plate and adapt. The good players will still be the good players.

Serious non-sequitur there. Either you quoted me by accident or you are replying to your own assumptions.

Belenwyn.8674:

One aspect of the discussion is that WvW raid guilds are not able to zergbust as before. I assume that these guilds are highly organised with TS, set group composition and synergising builds.

Last time I zerged it up, the public zone blob had 78 people on TS, it was commanded by a guy who had played GvG, had thousands of hours expereince, about 40 of those in the zerg were in GvG/WvW guilds, another 20 had previously been in WvW guilds or were simply players who had a lot of expereince, the vast majority of players were running “correct” builds and most were in decent group composition.

The result of which is no guild could zergbust the blob, including by far the best guild EU, the blob often beat two guilds at once, and it took 3 guilds “handholding” to beat the blob, this was before the stability change.

Long, long ago when people had not caught on how to play, then guilds like RG did zergbust, if people are “zergbusting” today then they are either fighting terrible servers or people are simply deluding themselves that it is down to “leet” skills when they meet the odd terible zerg.

WvW does not have a high skill cap, it also has a very low skill floor and simply by people playing the “correct” builds, being in “correct” groups, being on TS, having a decent commander/driver and not having many uplevels, makes far, far more difference than “skill”.

zinkz.7045:

Belenwyn.8674:

One aspect of the discussion is that WvW raid guilds are not able to zergbust as before. I assume that these guilds are highly organised with TS, set group composition and synergising builds.

Last time I zerged it up, the public zone blob had 78 people on TS, it was commanded by a guy who had played GvG, had thousands of hours expereince, about 40 of those in the zerg were in GvG/WvW guilds, another 20 had previously been in WvW guilds or were simply players who had a lot of expereince, the vast majority of players were running “correct” builds and most were in decent group composition.

The result of which is no guild could zergbust the blob, including by far the best guild EU, the blob often beat two guilds at once, and it took 3 guilds “handholding” to beat the blob, this was before the stability change.

Long, long ago when people had not caught on how to play, then guilds like RG did zergbust, if people are “zergbusting” today then they are either fighting terrible servers or people are simply deluding themselves that it is down to “leet” skills when they meet the odd terible zerg.

WvW does not have a high skill cap, it also has a very low skill floor and simply by people playing the “correct” builds, being in “correct” groups, being on TS, having a decent commander/driver and not having many uplevels, makes far, far more difference than “skill”.

But then nothing changed. It was nearly impossible (depending on severs for sure) to zergbust before the recent patch and it is now nearly impossible.

Zetsumei.4975:

BrickFurious.7169:

I have a feeling that the true benefit of these stability changes won’t be felt until the new borderlands map, with its greater quantity of narrow passages and more maze-like terrain, is released, along with the new shield generator siege weapon.

Right now all the maps have fairly open terrain, which would normally make professions using melee weapons sitting ducks, as there’s so much open space between them and professions using ranged weapons and not a lot of environment to use as cover. However, until now stability has allowed melee professions to readily overcome this disadvantage by letting them ignore most CC and use gap-closers to easily catch up to ranged professions, even in the open field. The changes to stability move the game a bit toward the more realistic expectation, which is that in an open terrain scenario ranged weapons will have an advantage. This is how it is in games like FPSs too; out in the open, SMGs have an advantage over shotguns (or if you play TF2: out in the open, heavies have an advantage over pyros).

But the new borderlands map seems like it will have a greater amount of close-quarters spaces. I think it’s in these spaces that melee weapons will really shine, just like how in FPSs shotguns tend to do well over SMGs in close-quarters spaces. And the shield generator, with its stability bubble and force walls, seems like the perfect tool to use to help a melee ball both close the gap on another force as well as pack that other force into a convenient corner.

In the meantime, I don’t think this rules out a melee ball in open-field fights, but I think there’s going to have to be some new tactics to make it viable (probably a lot more veils) and you may have some warriors and guardians opting for a ranged secondary weapon.

Regardless of how hard anet is pushing for it, I will never use open field siege for a fight.

I will Kurokitten you if u do so.

sighs
With this changed i have to grow numbers. Before, raiding with 15-18 in silver was possible. Now i have to have 23-25 to fight more or less equal.
Sad change indeed.

Belenwyn.8674:

zinkz.7045:

Belenwyn.8674:

One aspect of the discussion is that WvW raid guilds are not able to zergbust as before. I assume that these guilds are highly organised with TS, set group composition and synergising builds.

Last time I zerged it up, the public zone blob had 78 people on TS, it was commanded by a guy who had played GvG, had thousands of hours expereince, about 40 of those in the zerg were in GvG/WvW guilds, another 20 had previously been in WvW guilds or were simply players who had a lot of expereince, the vast majority of players were running “correct” builds and most were in decent group composition.

The result of which is no guild could zergbust the blob, including by far the best guild EU, the blob often beat two guilds at once, and it took 3 guilds “handholding” to beat the blob, this was before the stability change.

Long, long ago when people had not caught on how to play, then guilds like RG did zergbust, if people are “zergbusting” today then they are either fighting terrible servers or people are simply deluding themselves that it is down to “leet” skills when they meet the odd terible zerg.

WvW does not have a high skill cap, it also has a very low skill floor and simply by people playing the “correct” builds, being in “correct” groups, being on TS, having a decent commander/driver and not having many uplevels, makes far, far more difference than “skill”.

But then nothing changed. It was nearly impossible (depending on severs for sure) to zergbust before the recent patch and it is now nearly impossible.

No its impossible to even properly push, unless u r super sneaky. You’ll get CC’ed and ranged in a few seconds.

Disable hard CC in WvW. Disable Stability in WvW. Problem solved.

Love the change, nothing was more irritating than setting up a great bottleneck, only to watch the enemy melee train just Choo Choo through it like they don’t care.

There aren’t nearly enough boon-stripping skills in the game to counter the perma stability these melee trains have.

But i have the feeling i’m the only one who has a different vision of what ‘Massive WvW fights are’, 2 60-men blobs running into each other 24/7 is boring.

I wanna see massive fights like Anet demonstrates in their videos.. several 5-man teams trebbing from various locations, tactical siege play, a 10 man team ramming gate Y while another small team takes a necessary objective. For these smaller scaled fights, you should have enough stability stacks

Taking an objective should be a true effort from everyone, not just 60 people smashing on a gate FTW. All this hate on the forums for defenders shooting AC at you etc. Well, if the defenders took the time to properly siege a tower, I believe it to me more than fair that it should be hard to take. Similarly, stability shouldn’t just be a Press to Win button, allowing you to ignore a nice bottleneck trap

Stability was never a “press to win” button.

Regarding anet videos.. yeah that looks nice on a video, just might not be too much fun in-game after 3 minutes…

@coglin: could you please post your engineer build, or is it a secret (mp me wink wink)? I use my engineer mainly for roaming, but I would be interested in a zerg build.

Johje Holan.4607:

Disable hard CC in WvW. Disable Stability in WvW. Problem solved.

Yeah, and then complain that the stability change was made for casuals… Frankly the serious casualness is expecting to not care about an entire aspect of the game (cc), having it negated by just one boon application, in order to dumb down the gameplay. I’m glad this was fixed.

Oobob.6754:

Kraljevo.2801:

Flyphish.6398:

Step out of your zergs people…this is a great change. Learn to play a new style. Adapt. Try a new build. You know…think a little bit. Too many sheep.

+1

most of the people here complaining are part of small fights guilds that go zerg busting. the trouble is in these small groups zergs overwhelm your stability since they have much more cc available.

the main way to “adapt” is to play with a ton of ranged and just sit there at a distance and cast, which is incredibly boring without the jousting of melee. this has intensified the dullness of the pirate ship meta. sure it’s obvious how to adapt, it’s also way less fun than having organized melee rushes to charge with and avoid.

i’m an ele main and i would be put to sleep if i didn’t have melee pushes to evade. but that’s the new meta we’ll have to “adapt” to, sadly it won’t be fun to play for most organized fights groups.

this is the first time anet made a change that makes the game not fun.

I’ve also seen people just LOS the zerg and have some success.

Sorel.4870:

@coglin: could you please post your engineer build, or is it a secret (mp me wink wink)? I use my engineer mainly for roaming, but I would be interested in a zerg build.

What I’ve been using. Could take slick shoes instead of rocket….but I enjoy rocket as an oh $#!t I’m too close. Also, I use the p/sh because extra blocks.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fdQQJAqelUUpEr9dxkLseNSbBFylWRRGlp85CEgjC-TFCFwAy2fIl6PNViB4EAcVJISlHCeAAZ0DQKgi0aB-w

hedix.1986:

People have already adjusted to the changes – it is called “pirateship meta”.

Bingo.

Got any good shanties?

I can’t say whether I prefer pre-stability changes or post-stability changes. But what I’ll say is that changes like these make the game interesting by forcing players to adapt, make changes to their spec, and likely play some other classes. People have cried about the lack of changes in WvW for a very long time. Here we get a change that forces people to look at battles a bit differently. We’re getting what we asked for, even if we didn’t ask specifically for changes to stability.

So, I like changes, I’ve embraced it. The commanders I see having issues are the ones still going “ok we’re rushing, 3, 2, 1….omg this hurts I need stability!@#” What many don’t realize is that stability changes affect everybody. So while you think guardians & warriors have it worse now upon initial charge, try being ranged and getting run over by a well flanked melee train on them. They’ll get rekt now more than ever, talk about being bounced and tossed about.

I’ve seen commanders that have adapted change their driving styles, and run more creative tactics than just “ok stack, and we push all the way 3, 2, 1”.

I share the opinion of some here that this will not serve to punish blobbing or zerging, but instead makes it overpowered. All they need now is endless CC and pure zerk and they will kill anything you can throw at them.

Stability let you actually melee and have fun. So i’m burning a 24 second cd for 5 seconds of stability that won’t even last 5 seconds. They say its overpowered because it stops 30 ccs from happening, but now those 30 ccs work plus you’re taking loads of damage, all while being knocked on your butt. And now that those 30 cc actually work, we’re seeing them cast all the time.

No one can do anything while knocked on the ground, so saying stability is op is bs. Being knocked to the ground is op as i can’t use anything while i’m there and it’s now super simple to do. gg anet.

I presume they simply wanted to nuke anyone wearing zerker gear and engaging in melee combat. Now you have a better chance of being stunned and melted before you can recover.

Party composition is now two guards per party

Memphisjz.1405:

Love the change, nothing was more irritating than setting up a great bottleneck, only to watch the enemy melee train just Choo Choo through it like they don’t care.

If that happened your bottleneck sucked. Look for some videos of VR defending towers. Their comp was invincible vs open field comps.