Guild Wars 2

Sorel.4870:

I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.

I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.

Sorel.4870:

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.

The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.

@Yougottawanna
what would a new player feel if he/she got repeatedly wrecked by a force 1/3rd the size?
he/she will most likely quit the game, or think the others were cheating. Only a minority of the players who get rekt actually decides to look into WHY they got wrecked.

While probably not the main reason for this change, it does make it easier to get into WvW, while also harder to stay. The “new” stab system is very similar to PvE stab. You gotta slap the boss this many times before you can stun. For less experienced players who would unload all their skills, this may seem confusing when the old stab was a “click to win” type of boon.

Sorel.4870:

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).

Murksler.5261:

Sorel.4870:

I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.

I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.

Sorel.4870:

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.

The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.

the new strategy is then to counter nuke or save stability until it matters (such as VS static and ring of warding rather then simple hammer spams and line of warding which all can be negated by blinds, aegis or simply walking in another direction.

zinkz.7045:

Kodiak.3281:

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

The ‘complaint’ in regard to busting zergs comes from NA players where public zergs are well terrible, ‘zerg busting’ has not really been a thing on EU for a long time at least in regard to decent experienced servers.

In EU much of the time the public zergs at least on certain servers, are actually open raids hosted by a guild or are effectively open raids because you have more players from GvG/WvW guilds (or simply are very experienced) than the guild you are facing, so outside of the very rare occasion the days of guilds like RG wiping a 60 man zerg have long gone.

On NA Tier 1 it is no different and many cases it’s a guild running forces around on a map.

Yesterday what we saw was basically no one could push through without grossly superior numbers. If you tried to push through, by the time you were in the middle of the enemy all stability was gone because spammed CC’s like Static Field, Line of Warding, Unsteady Earth, Spectral Wall, etc basically removed any and all amounts of Stability in no time and zergs found themselves caught in CC and bursted down.

People suggesting you bait the CC are wholly ignorant of the fact that baiting has long since been a tactic in WvW and one that most people are aware of. Soft CC has long since been used to bait stability usage out of people and hard CCs were previously held until after the spike since their cool downs would be gone. In fact most baiting was/is used to bait those longer spike damage cool downs (IE: Wells). Most good commanders don’t commit those cool downs until a real engagement is occurring.

The new WvW borderlands maps with many more choke points are just going to exasperate the situation. Most choke points you need large amounts of Stability to get through. With the new map I see it just being huge exercises in frustration to attack anything defended because CC simply reigns supreme now in WvW.

Good time to be an Ele I guess…

Prysin.8542:

Murksler.5261:

Sorel.4870:

I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.

I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.

Sorel.4870:

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.

The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.

the new strategy is then to counter nuke or save stability until it matters (such as VS static and ring of warding rather then simple hammer spams and line of warding which all can be negated by blinds, aegis or simply walking in another direction.

Really man, fighting zerg now isn;t such hard, the probalem occur when enemy have even 5 more mt than u have – cos of simple outnumber of ccs and stabil. As i know guild were playing this way earlier – i mean saving stab for static fields etc., but now even if u do so u lose lot of stacks before u reach enemy mt.

I can tell u much more simple tactic against zergs: everyone from mt play as ele / necro now and cc enemy mt before it reach em with 5 statics u can outplay guardians

Kasteros.9847:

Sorel.4870:

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t.

AOE limit still applies. only 4 CCs matters, fear wall, line of warding, ring of warding and static field. ALL other CC is limited to AOE cap of 5. Meaning you get an easier time.

Smaller groups can use TWO venomshare thieves and that will give 4x STUN to ALL players affected (2x from each)…. and 6x immob…. meaning, venomshare thief now serves a function as a CC multiplier.

Use mantra mesmer for AOE stunbreak (2-3 AOE stunbreaks). This will help immensely for groups that cannot spam stunbreaks on all utility slots.
1 mesmer can in theory save 15 players with ONE utility, meaning they can still take portal, veil and mass invis.

Kasteros.9847:

Prysin.8542:

Murksler.5261:

Sorel.4870:

I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.

I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.

Sorel.4870:

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.

The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.

the new strategy is then to counter nuke or save stability until it matters (such as VS static and ring of warding rather then simple hammer spams and line of warding which all can be negated by blinds, aegis or simply walking in another direction.

Really man, fighting zerg now isn;t such hard, the probalem occur when enemy have even 5 more mt than u have – cos of simple outnumber of ccs and stabil. As i know guild were playing this way earlier – i mean saving stab for static fields etc., but now even if u do so u lose lot of stacks before u reach enemy mt.

Numbers only win when you do not have a contingency plan to counter an increase in numbers.

There is a solution to this mess, it is available in the game already, people just do not use it.

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.9847:

Sorel.4870:

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t.

AOE limit still applies. only 4 CCs matters, fear wall, line of warding, ring of warding and static field. ALL other CC is limited to AOE cap of 5. Meaning you get an easier time.

Smaller groups can use TWO venomshare thieves and that will give 4x STUN to ALL players affected (2x from each)…. and 6x immob…. meaning, venomshare thief now serves a function as a CC multiplier.

Use mantra mesmer for AOE stunbreak (2-3 AOE stunbreaks). This will help immensely for groups that cannot spam stunbreaks on all utility slots.
1 mesmer can in theory save 15 players with ONE utility, meaning they can still take portal, veil and mass invis.

Yep but man, if u get 10 statics( blob usually have 10+ eles) u can’t do a kitten. Also venomshare is fine, but try to find thiefs that will play it? No fun a tall Only GH use it as i know. Also here u get to my points, the whole thing now is about papers, not mt like it used to be, mt is now decoration to STAY and w8 till papers do their role as role i mean kill enemy papers.

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.9847:

Prysin.8542:

Murksler.5261:

Sorel.4870:

I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully.

I don’t know what’s your point here? These are exactly the same things you have to consider as a guild if you want to fight against a larger force. You have to kite, have to use LoS and have to time you bursts carefully. Futhermore you have to coordinate a whole group and time you attacks and retreats as a unit. If only one player is failing he’s dead.

Sorel.4870:

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

There is a huge different between a 5vs5 courtyard match and a 20vs20 GvG. In a 5vs5 you have less CC’s sometimes none. And the stacks you get from a stability utility is mostly enough to go trough the CC.
In a 20vs20 fight will be always some kind of CC, you can’t wait until all is used because in this time there will be new CC’s available and you have way more CC’s than you have stability.

The problem is not to get the downed player to death, the problem is to get a player downed in the pirateship meta. If a players goes down he’s pretty much dead unless he gets a banner. Because if he goes in downed state there will be a huge bomb from the caster on him. If the other group try to ress him they will instant CC’ed and get also bomb to death. The same goes in the other direction if you produce a downstate on the enemys side you can’t push on him and cleave him down, because if you do that you get CC’ed and bombed down.
So in the end it will be pretty much a standoff.

the new strategy is then to counter nuke or save stability until it matters (such as VS static and ring of warding rather then simple hammer spams and line of warding which all can be negated by blinds, aegis or simply walking in another direction.

Really man, fighting zerg now isn;t such hard, the probalem occur when enemy have even 5 more mt than u have – cos of simple outnumber of ccs and stabil. As i know guild were playing this way earlier – i mean saving stab for static fields etc., but now even if u do so u lose lot of stacks before u reach enemy mt.

Numbers only win when you do not have a contingency plan to counter an increase in numbers.

There is a solution to this mess, it is available in the game already, people just do not use it.

Emmm…sollution? Which 1? I have spend lot of time to think how to counter 60 man blob with 20 man guild now and I didn’t got any idea. The only sollution is to w8 for Revenant with his stabillity spam( that is what they want by nerfing stabil right? To make Revenant much more op and show that ppl need to buy expansion)

I really hope some anet dev is reading our concerns about this, I highly doubt it thought since feels like the WvW section is a forbidden area for devs to look at

Kasteros.9847:

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).

Ok, first of all, let’s drop the 1v1-quickscope-at-dragon slang, thank you.

You’re right on something: I don’t have the definitive answer to your current issues, because:
1) The patch was yesterday and no one has had time to adapt yet
2) I’m not a commander in a “super duper amazing guild”. I’m merely a humble WvW player who gives an opinion on the game mode, providing arguments.

Yes, three times larger zergs have three times the cc and three times the stab, that seems like a reasonable assumption. My question is: are you a “skilled player” if you try to fight a zerg three times the size of yours using the same strategy this larger blob uses? Do you see me complaining about losing against three pew pew rangers if I stand still and RF one of them (that’s the reason I don’t play ranger btw)? You gotta be smart m8! Get skilled, train with your guild and earn your victory.

Consider this:
Hills keep on Bl, one blob at the inner center gate, stacking at the end of the bridge, opposing blob holding the other side of the bridge. How to take the keep (w/o using the north inner gate to keep things simple)?
1. ppl pushing in small groups => free kills for free casters, even with auto attack
2. siege => other side will use siege too => siege wars 2 => sucks
3. ppl pushing coordinatedly, defenders holds cd’s till they push really close, then line/static/cc-bomb the push in front, on top, lines even behind, ppl perma cc’d, 10 icebows and well bombs=>everyone is dead
4. wait for the defenders to push, until next update will redirect you to LA
5. close game and have fun

PS: what really bothers me is from posts you can tell most ppl now happy about the stab changes are ranged slacking behind and most likely not on ts, never seen a gvg and did not figure how to dodge a pushing melee train (hint: they often move linear and predictable)

PPS: with this patch many good warrs/guards are likely to guit the game, including commanders, wvw eotm-style incoming, have fun (WHO THE HELL NEEDS TO FARM KARMA?)

@sorel
its not about using the exact same tactics, also about EXACT timing, banner coordination, stab chains, how often do you hear pug coms hoping for a single ele to call their water fields?

root.2859:

Consider this:
Hills keep on Bl, one blob at the inner center gate, stacking at the end of the bridge, opposing blob holding the other side of the bridge. How to take the keep (w/o using the north inner gate to keep things simple)?
1. ppl pushing in small groups => free kills for free casters, even with auto attack
2. siege => other side will use siege too => siege wars 2 => sucks
3. ppl pushing coordinatedly, defenders holds cd’s till they push really close, then line/static/cc-bomb the push in front, on top, lines even behind, ppl perma cc’d, 10 icebows and well bombs=>everyone is dead
4. wait for the defenders to push, until next update will redirect you to LA
5. close game and have fun

Is portal bomb still a thing? That could work.

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).

Ok, first of all, let’s drop the 1v1-quickscope-at-dragon slang, thank you.

You’re right on something: I don’t have the definitive answer to your current issues, because:
1) The patch was yesterday and no one has had time to adapt yet
2) I’m not a commander in a “super duper amazing guild”. I’m merely a humble WvW player who gives an opinion on the game mode, providing arguments.

Yes, three times larger zergs have three times the cc and three times the stab, that seems like a reasonable assumption. My question is: are you a “skilled player” if you try to fight a zerg three times the size of yours using the same strategy this larger blob uses? Do you see me complaining about losing against three pew pew rangers if I stand still and RF one of them (that’s the reason I don’t play ranger btw)? You gotta be smart m8! Get skilled, train with your guild and earn your victory.

Man I’m skilled, we were trying lot of strategies, but nothing worked against blob. We faked rush, were running around avoiding clash and letting our papers bomb them and much more diffrent stuff, but nothing worked. Against our range bobm they answered with their range bomb and range ccs then clasehd us with their meele. In asnwer to our fake push they just put statics, fear, lines all around us and we couldn’t do anything with out 10 mt. My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob and also to show that Revenant is op and needed( cos of his stabillity spam) – you need to buy expansions in other words.

Anet just reacted O_o, if u wanna complain about WvW’s performance after this update follow this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Performance-issues-in-WvW-after-Update/page/2

Kasteros.9847:

Anet just reacted O_o, if u wanna complain about WvW’s performance after this update follow this thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Performance-issues-in-WvW-after-Update/page/2

Well they just redirected the post to the forums solution of a bin. They have not responded yet, but it’s still early in the us.

@sorel
you will need min 2 portals for that, and its most likely ppl scout the mesmers and everyone stacks on the portals, thats why portal bombs arent really an option since idk when

Prysin.8542:

Use mantra mesmer for AOE stunbreak (2-3 AOE stunbreaks). This will help immensely for groups that cannot spam stunbreaks on all utility slots.
1 mesmer can in theory save 15 players with ONE utility, meaning they can still take portal, veil and mass invis.

Except you’d almost never “save 15 players” with one utility due to how affects apply in group in range (it prioritizes your group over others if they are in range). Also with CC’s being spammed by such a large number of players, a single stun break isn’t going to change anything as the problem with Stability currently is there’s so many CC’s that Stability stacks are being stripped off too fast. So you’ll break CC just to get CC’d again.

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).

Ok, first of all, let’s drop the 1v1-quickscope-at-dragon slang, thank you.

You’re right on something: I don’t have the definitive answer to your current issues, because:
1) The patch was yesterday and no one has had time to adapt yet
2) I’m not a commander in a “super duper amazing guild”. I’m merely a humble WvW player who gives an opinion on the game mode, providing arguments.

Yes, three times larger zergs have three times the cc and three times the stab, that seems like a reasonable assumption. My question is: are you a “skilled player” if you try to fight a zerg three times the size of yours using the same strategy this larger blob uses? Do you see me complaining about losing against three pew pew rangers if I stand still and RF one of them (that’s the reason I don’t play ranger btw)? You gotta be smart m8! Get skilled, train with your guild and earn your victory.

The problem is that the most likely strategy people will adopt is already in the game: the ranged bomb/pirate ship meta, also known as the meta most top NA guilds are already using anyway. It has two problems:

1. When two ranged comp guilds fight each other it’s boring. Fights take forever as no one wants to push. Half the assjams I see now are due to sheer boredom.

2. It’s not able to push through chokes. With the (indirect) buff to AC’s through the FOV changes and the new borderlands apparently being chokepoint paradise WvW is going to be boring as hell.

Kasteros.9847:

My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob

I see you want to continue in this pro360noscope fashion. Very well. I literally never saw a single thread about that on this sub forum. The GvG community seriously need to stop thinking that Anet thinks about it every time they balance something in the game.

I believe that Anet thought about nerfing the zerg tactics in general, as well as how over-powered stability was in WvW. Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)

Ok, WvW is unbalanced. Ok, the game is balanced about small scale. But if guardian was as brokenly OP in pvp as it was last week in WvW, imagine the kittenstorm on the pvp subforum! So you lost because you sticked to your GWEN outdated meta? Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.

Sorel.4870:

Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)

No Necros (no stab)
No Warriors (no AoE ranged damage)
Your logic works!

Sorel.4870:

Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.

Ppl adapted already, they’re playing the Pirateship meta.
It’s working, but boring like hell…

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob

I see you want to continue in this pro360noscope fashion. Very well. I literally never saw a single thread about that on this sub forum. The GvG community seriously need to stop thinking that Anet thinks about it every time they balance something in the game.

I believe that Anet thought about nerfing the zerg tactics in general, as well as how over-powered stability was in WvW. Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)

Ok, WvW is unbalanced. Ok, the game is balanced about small scale. But if guardian was as brokenly OP in pvp as it was last week in WvW, imagine the kittenstorm on the pvp subforum! So you lost because you sticked to your GWEN outdated meta? Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.

Actually there are other reasons( at last for guilds)

Engineer – no survi skill, his only place can be fp( he can’t support as much as ele or necro and can;t stay up in meele) but while being there he get…insta kileld cos of no survi skills
Rangers – Same situation like with engineer, no support group skills at all.
Thieves? They are used in gvg groups
Mesmers? MOST IMPORTANT PART OF GUILD GROUP MAN

Idk where u play but i gave u how it look in EU meta. Everything here is balanced by group skills. Ranger and engii can;t give anything to group so they are useless.

Guardians wasn’t such op, u could easly take them down durgiong clashed, but u probably didn’t knwo how NO1 wil ladapt to this new stabil meta, at last not gaianst blobs, u just can’t with ur stabil melting in few secs, no tactic at all, cos blob just rush u and hit u untill u lose stabil, then u will have gg Earlier, u could survive cos u had stab and didn’t stay behinde, now it is imposible The only way of adaptation is this “pirate ship” meta, but fight like this last for 20-30 mins without any1 winning cos no1 want to push and it is boring( look TA vs LAG gvg ) . As i typed it is easy for u to say “adapt” since u probably main some range class that stay away and is happy now cos u can cc em as much as u want. But just w8 till u get bored of this or when mt get enough of this and swap to papers U won;t have such much fun with being killed by enemy mt that strike without any1 opposing them

root.2859:

Consider this:
Hills keep on Bl, one blob at the inner center gate, stacking at the end of the bridge, opposing blob holding the other side of the bridge. How to take the keep (w/o using the north inner gate to keep things simple)?
1. ppl pushing in small groups => free kills for free casters, even with auto attack
2. siege => other side will use siege too => siege wars 2 => sucks
3. ppl pushing coordinatedly, defenders holds cd’s till they push really close, then line/static/cc-bomb the push in front, on top, lines even behind, ppl perma cc’d, 10 icebows and well bombs=>everyone is dead
4. wait for the defenders to push, until next update will redirect you to LA
5. close game and have fun

PS: what really bothers me is from posts you can tell most ppl now happy about the stab changes are ranged slacking behind and most likely not on ts, never seen a gvg and did not figure how to dodge a pushing melee train (hint: they often move linear and predictable)

PPS: with this patch many good warrs/guards are likely to guit the game, including commanders, wvw eotm-style incoming, have fun (WHO THE HELL NEEDS TO FARM KARMA?)

@sorel
its not about using the exact same tactics, also about EXACT timing, banner coordination, stab chains, how often do you hear pug coms hoping for a single ele to call their water fields?

We actually had this exact scenario on T1 last night at Blackgate Borderlands on Hills. We were defending our keep at the bridge choke point. The enemy had sieged down through walls via Catapults, then sieged down inner wall/door to bridge with Catas again. Both sides had siege setup to counter but neither side could counter siege. This left a dead man’s land where anyone who entered would get sieged down.

Eventually what did them in was they pushed. They were unable to get through the huge amount of CC in a choke point and had no way to put down siege against us and half their forces died before they pulled back. Then our blob had the numbers and we pushed through and ran over them.

Let us wait for the closed/open beta. As soon as the revenant and the new specialisations are active we can start to find the new meta for WvW.

Kasteros.9847:

Engineer – no survi skill, his only place can be fp( he can’t support as much as ele or necro and can;t stay up in meele) but while being there he get…insta kileld cos of no survi skills
Rangers – Same situation like with engineer, no support group skills at all.
Thieves? They are used in gvg groups
Mesmers? MOST IMPORTANT PART OF GUILD GROUP MAN

Ok you make some good points, and I was somewhat exaggerating. And about mesmers, yes they are important (and imo the most fun to play in a zerg fight), but you usually only bring 2 or 3. Nothing like guardians. Furthermore, you have to admit that the stability changes COULD make some professions more viable, for example thief (venomshare). I play on Augury Rock (EU) btw.

Kasteros.9847:

The only way of adaptation is this “pirate ship” meta, but fight like this last for 20-30 mins without any1 winning cos no1 want to push and it is boring( look TA vs LAG gvg ) .

Well it’s a bit early to know that for sure. TA vs LAG still uses the same GWEN meta builds, while the stab change was huge. We’ll need more time to come up with new builds. The problem with pirate ship is that the fights take too long and you have almost no way to prevent rezzes.

Kasteros.9847:

As i typed it is easy for u to say “adapt” since u probably main some range class that stay away and is happy now cos u can cc em as much as u want.

Hardly. My four mains are in that order engi, thief, warrior and mesmer, so no luck for me here. You have to understand that some players are not heavily profession-biased, since GW2 allows you to master many professions rapidly.

Belenwyn.8674:

Let us wait for the closed/open beta. As soon as the revenant and the new specialisations are active we can start to find the new meta for WvW.

Hammer engineer melee train ftw!

Kasteros.9847:

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

HOW WIN MAN? U can’t, just can’t win against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks it is imposible. It isn;t about strategy, it is about number. Don’t, just don’t talk like u know a thing cos as i see u don’t. Now anet just forced us to blob up and cut down skilled players – even when u are super duper amazing guild u can;t wipe blbo now by simple calculation taht i presented few times( basically by spamming aoe ccs and satb in blob).

Ok, first of all, let’s drop the 1v1-quickscope-at-dragon slang, thank you.

You’re right on something: I don’t have the definitive answer to your current issues, because:
1) The patch was yesterday and no one has had time to adapt yet
2) I’m not a commander in a “super duper amazing guild”. I’m merely a humble WvW player who gives an opinion on the game mode, providing arguments.

Yes, three times larger zergs have three times the cc and three times the stab, that seems like a reasonable assumption. My question is: are you a “skilled player” if you try to fight a zerg three times the size of yours using the same strategy this larger blob uses? Do you see me complaining about losing against three pew pew rangers if I stand still and RF one of them (that’s the reason I don’t play ranger btw)? You gotta be smart m8! Get skilled, train with your guild and earn your victory.

Man I’m skilled, we were trying lot of strategies, but nothing worked against blob. We faked rush, were running around avoiding clash and letting our papers bomb them and much more diffrent stuff, but nothing worked. Against our range bobm they answered with their range bomb and range ccs then clasehd us with their meele. In asnwer to our fake push they just put statics, fear, lines all around us and we couldn’t do anything with out 10 mt. My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob and also to show that Revenant is op and needed( cos of his stabillity spam) – you need to buy expansions in other words.

first, revenant will not be the answer because the moment they add revenant they ALSO add profession specialization. Meaning the meta will shift EVEN MORE.
So drop the revenant idea. It will not be the “go to” solution once you technically get 9 more professions in addition to rev (assuming rev has spec option too from launch).

That being said, you need to build a NEW META.
so what were you using? Old MT + paper WONT WORK.

you gotta reroll. Warriors are out, they got too little stab and their AOE is limited. They are useless once you decide to range attack.

new frontline is rangers.

Long stab (pulsing) that is hard to corrupt.
evade on auto (auto mitigating damage)
superior ranged option that only an ele can match
can provide AOE precision buff (7% crit chance)
Can tank HARD
AOE cleanses.

Warrior should assume support role. Banner regen/shout heal with sword shield and longbow (ill explain in a sec).
You wont ever GET to the front line with hammer, drop it, you’ll get chainstunned and feared to death before you’re in hammer range. You need motion + defense. In comes shield block + sword leap. You get cleave immob, which ignores stab. You can fire off Final Thrust into a zerg and the chance of randomly instagibbin a low player is HIGH (i used to run evis + sword in PvP, it is not hard to hit 4-5k in celestial or clerics).

Guard does guard stuff

Add 2 thieves for venomshare. Shortbow + SP (for cleave + blind spam).
Spam blinds, enemies that cannot hit is not a real threat.
Thieves give zerg poison + stun then port to nearby enemy papers using sword, blind spam them to prevent them from hitting with meteor/lava. This will work if the thieves is good. Since venoms now use thief stats, all they gotta do is give poison venom and they will tag enough players to actually BENEFIT.
Should run cele on thief.

Engineers over necros. They got more AOE damage, massive PBAOE bomb damage and they also got AOE stealth and AOE stability. Can also bring waterfield. Great class with massive amounts of choice. In theory you can make a zerg outta engi, ranger and guard only, but that is no fun.

Eles do ele things, use monk runes, +10% heal food from lunar new year, sigil of benevolence and aquatic benevolence trait (total boost is 57.5% higher outgoing healing). 2-3 out of 10 eles running this, using water staff 3 can heal for 4-5k pr pulse if they run cleric, 3-4k on cele.

Mesmer should run mantra of concentration. That is stunbreak PLUS stability in AOE. If they trait for it, they can get 3x usages. CD is 25 sec before next channel of 3. 2 sec between casts.. i think they can trait for heals on using mantra too. I am not familiar with mesmers aside from this and portal….

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

My point is that anet nefed small guild groups cos too many ppl qqued about being killed by em while in blob

I see you want to continue in this pro360noscope fashion. Very well. I literally never saw a single thread about that on this sub forum. The GvG community seriously need to stop thinking that Anet thinks about it every time they balance something in the game.

I believe that Anet thought about nerfing the zerg tactics in general, as well as how over-powered stability was in WvW. Have you ever seen a single engineer in your “skilled” zergs? Ask yourself why. Hint: (no stab).
Rangers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Thieves? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)
Mesmers? (no AoE ranged damage, no stab)

Ok, WvW is unbalanced. Ok, the game is balanced about small scale. But if guardian was as brokenly OP in pvp as it was last week in WvW, imagine the kittenstorm on the pvp subforum! So you lost because you sticked to your GWEN outdated meta? Adapt or get rekt, that’s the tough law of WvW.

No offense m8 but I really believe you’ve never seen and/or been part of a dedicated raiding group. All of the classes you mentioned (savefor the rangers who still play a niche role) play a huge role in raiding groups.
The fact that you, even though it was explained to you, still believe raiding groups use the same tactics as PUG blobs tells me you lack serious knowledge about this issue and are not in a position to comment on this topic.

In other news: I think it would be a compromise to simply say you can only lose 1 stability per second (I think someone already made a similar suggestions) that way you still get to use the benefits of stability for a limited amount of time but it’s less of a win-button.

Sorel.4870:

Kasteros.9847:

Engineer – no survi skill, his only place can be fp( he can’t support as much as ele or necro and can;t stay up in meele) but while being there he get…insta kileld cos of no survi skills
Rangers – Same situation like with engineer, no support group skills at all.
Thieves? They are used in gvg groups
Mesmers? MOST IMPORTANT PART OF GUILD GROUP MAN

Ok you make some good points, and I was somewhat exaggerating. And about mesmers, yes they are important (and imo the most fun to play in a zerg fight), but you usually only bring 2 or 3. Nothing like guardians. Furthermore, you have to admit that the stability changes COULD make some professions more viable, for example thief (venomshare). I play on Augury Rock (EU) btw.

Kasteros.9847:

The only way of adaptation is this “pirate ship” meta, but fight like this last for 20-30 mins without any1 winning cos no1 want to push and it is boring( look TA vs LAG gvg ) .

Well it’s a bit early to know that for sure. TA vs LAG still uses the same GWEN meta builds, while the stab change was huge. We’ll need more time to come up with new builds. The problem with pirate ship is that the fights take too long and you have almost no way to prevent rezzes.

Kasteros.9847:

As i typed it is easy for u to say “adapt” since u probably main some range class that stay away and is happy now cos u can cc em as much as u want.

Hardly. My four mains are in that order engi, thief, warrior and mesmer, so no luck for me here. You have to understand that some players are not heavily profession-biased, since GW2 allows you to master many professions rapidly.

There is reaosn why u bring max 2 mesmers, mt need to stay compact and numberous to hold enemy mt pression. Also not many ppl play mesmers at wvw tho sometimes we don’t even have 1 even if we would liek to have him :P As i said i have spend lot of time thinkng what to do with this new stabil, the only idea i got was pirate ship meta nothing more. Cos if u get more mt( IF u get em, cos it is hard to find ppl who want to raid with guild) u will have more ppl but in same numbers this don’t make diffrence. Thiefs with venoms, yes, they are fine, but they won’t help with stabil lack, u just lose it anyway even if u stun enemy. I even wanted to check melandru, they give shorter stun durration, this don’t help much either – cos u might get shoerter stuns ,but still get too many of them. Finally break stuns adnd every possible stabil skill, nothing. HG form guards might be helpfull but u won’t stand a chance to stay in it( there is also immobilize that u need to rememeber about and which make u stay in bomb – if not stun then this condi).

Kasteros.
Melee train is out. It is useless. You need hybrids. Pure melee WONT MAKE IT PAST STATIC, LoW, RoW OR FEAR WALL. THEY WONT. because those skills hit MANY enemies, not just 5.

You need profs able to melee, but flip to ranged and still be as devastating as an ele. Sometimes you just gotta realize when the game is over for the traditional hammer spam.

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.
Melee train is out. It is useless. You need hybrids. Pure melee WONT MAKE IT PAST STATIC, LoW, RoW OR FEAR WALL. THEY WONT. because those skills hit MANY enemies, not just 5.

You need profs able to melee, but flip to ranged and still be as devastating as an ele. Sometimes you just gotta realize when the game is over for the traditional hammer spam.

U might be right here, but this just discriminate some builds and force us to play the way anet chose for us. So u will lose 1 important aspect of the game – flexibility with builds.

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

We also have to implement the shield generator in our calculations. So far we have no experience with it. How big is its stability field. How much stability it will grant? 3 stacks per second? how many player will benefit, 50 or 20? How easy you can stack the field? Can you overcome the CC stacks by shield dome stacks? Can you pave the attack route with shield domes?

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.
Melee train is out. It is useless. You need hybrids. Pure melee WONT MAKE IT PAST STATIC, LoW, RoW OR FEAR WALL. THEY WONT. because those skills hit MANY enemies, not just 5.

You need profs able to melee, but flip to ranged and still be as devastating as an ele. Sometimes you just gotta realize when the game is over for the traditional hammer spam.

Place shield domes on the right places and ROW, LOW and fear wall are maybe useless.

I think that ranger can be a really good choice for a front liner now. Not because of the bow as everyone here is saying but in another variation.

A friend of mine is running a clerical GS/sword-wh bunker ranger in pvp, and that works very well. I can see it being a good front liner too:
- Easy access to AoE swiftness
- AoE cleanse, low CD, large water field that scales with cleric.
- Good melee damage (GS)
- Good gap closers, and the sword gap closer EVADES. That’s huge.
- Rampage as one and the pulsing stab
Why isn’t this a thing?

I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…

Just my toughts

Kasteros.9847:

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.
Melee train is out. It is useless. You need hybrids. Pure melee WONT MAKE IT PAST STATIC, LoW, RoW OR FEAR WALL. THEY WONT. because those skills hit MANY enemies, not just 5.

You need profs able to melee, but flip to ranged and still be as devastating as an ele. Sometimes you just gotta realize when the game is over for the traditional hammer spam.

U might be right here, but this just discriminate some builds and force us to play the way anet chose for us. So u will lose 1 important aspect of the game – flexibility with builds.

You mean how the previous meta discriminated again some builds and professuons? And it forced players into playing something other then their preferred build/profession.

Why was it okay then? Because it favored your preferred professuon? Now it is bad because it ddoesn’t favor your personal preferences. Thay appears hypocritical to me.

root.2859:

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

Or an ICD of 0.5s to the ability of a skill to strip a stab stack? That way, a static field with only strip something like 10 stacks on the entire zerg instead of 40.

Kasteros.9847:

Prysin.8542:

Kasteros.
Melee train is out. It is useless. You need hybrids. Pure melee WONT MAKE IT PAST STATIC, LoW, RoW OR FEAR WALL. THEY WONT. because those skills hit MANY enemies, not just 5.

You need profs able to melee, but flip to ranged and still be as devastating as an ele. Sometimes you just gotta realize when the game is over for the traditional hammer spam.

U might be right here, but this just discriminate some builds and force us to play the way anet chose for us. So u will lose 1 important aspect of the game – flexibility with builds.

Anets mantra is “play how you want”.

They never said “play how you want while being as efficient as possible”.

Can i solo a dungeon is full nomads ranger? YES, i can.
Will it take a week or more? YES it will.
Does that mean i can play how i want? YES it does.

But if i want to do something else then banging my head against a wall for a week, ill have to run zerk in a dungeon to be effective.

So hammer warrior is out, booohooo. Great, Deal with it.
You got 8 professions, all of which has upsides and downsides. Perhaps it is time to broaden the horizon.

GWEN IS DEAD. GET OVER IT.

So what are you left with?
Rangers – hybrids
Warriors – support
Guard – support
Ele – ranged DPS + Support
Engi – ranged DPS, melee DPS, Support
Thief – melee DPS, support
Mesmer – utility bot (sorry, your role stays same)
Necro – liability (no stab, horrid movement. Bringing one will waste stab stacks needed for others)

So we lost the “N”. Because necro has no stab, and stab stacks are now VALUABLE.

So which classes can cover their own kitten with stab?
Rangers – Pulsing RaO, Signet of the Wild. This covers individual need.
Engineers – low stab, but can give AOE stab. Needs help from guards but can also help others
Mesmer – low stab, but can give AOE stab, need help from guards but can also help others.
Ele – Armor of Earth, Earth attune swap + invuln options. Need slight help from others, otherwise good.
Warrior – Dolyak Signet, Last Stand, Balance Stance, Shield block (works on some CC). Can mostly cover their own kitten . Can give AOE stab with elite banner #3.

So we got STAB.

Who is the most likely to succeed at the front?
Rangers.
Why?
They got PULSING stab. meaning they can lose all their stacks AND GET NEW ONES A TWO SEC LATERS. Meaning they need MUCH LESS help then anyone else.

Guards – they are the backbone of WvW, their always at the front.

Warriors – they are less effective now that they must be more careful. Their only pulsing stab option is a terrible elite (WvW wise). They should stay up front but be very cautious.

rest stay back.

Sorel.4870:

I think that ranger can be a really good choice for a front liner now. Not because of the bow as everyone here is saying but in another variation.

A friend of mine is running a clerical GS/sword-wh bunker ranger in pvp, and that works very well. I can see it being a good front liner too:
- Easy access to AoE swiftness
- AoE cleanse, low CD, large water field that scales with cleric.
- Good melee damage (GS)
- Good gap closers, and the sword gap closer EVADES. That’s huge.
- Rampage as one and the pulsing stab
Why isn’t this a thing?

Just because you can survive the frontline, doesn’t mean you are doing anything useful there. A cleric ranger does no damage and no cc. Eles already give water fields and everyone has perma swiftness from warrior horns and guard symbols.

Sorel.4870:

I think that ranger can be a really good choice for a front liner now. Not because of the bow as everyone here is saying but in another variation.

A friend of mine is running a clerical GS/sword-wh bunker ranger in pvp, and that works very well. I can see it being a good front liner too:
- Easy access to AoE swiftness
- AoE cleanse, low CD, large water field that scales with cleric.
- Good melee damage (GS)
- Good gap closers, and the sword gap closer EVADES. That’s huge.
- Rampage as one and the pulsing stab
Why isn’t this a thing?

So…How can he avoid ccs? :P without any guard or wariror around he won’t have much stabillity either. Rampage yes, but it puls 3 stacks every 3 sec, u lose 3 stacks in 0,1 sec when going meele :P

Sorel.4870:

Or an ICD of 0.5s to the ability of a skill to strip a stab stack? That way, a static field with only strip something like 10 stacks on the entire zerg instead of 40.

Terrible idea, this would favour bigger numbers even more than now.

BassHunteR.7246:

Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…

I agree. Melee still seems to be the only way of pressuring down opponents in this game. We might see more range-melee hybrid though.

pejot.4806:

Sorel.4870:

Or an ICD of 0.5s to the ability of a skill to strip a stab stack? That way, a static field with only strip something like 10 stacks on the entire zerg instead of 40.

Terrible idea, this would favour bigger numbers even more then now.

Probably, and packing closer to the blue dorrito. I was just thinking out loud. This might have shown, but I actually quite pleased with the changes so far.

– liability (no stab, horrid movement. Bringing one will waste stab stacks needed for others)

So we lost the “N”. Because necro has no stab, and stab stacks are now VALUABLE.

We should wait for necro specialisation for the final evaluation.

BassHunteR.7246:

I am a warrior from TC. Therefore i am in the melee train in the frontline… and all i can say is…i LOVED the update until now.
I tested yesterday in EB and we had a few fights against TWL with really big numbers…and we won some..and lost some…but we won quite a few with less numbers…
The best part about this update is now i can see how a stun hammer really matters when properly landed…
Before update you could land right over the stack and noone would get stunned or downed.. and today if you land it properly at least a few will get stunned and then downed…
So it feels a lot better to be there stunning when you get to see the result of it..
Ok so the stacks vanishes in secs..but it is up to you and your group to use them wisely..
Before update fights would go on and on with multiple bombs with only the ppl not in ts/mumble or not coordinated getting downed until eventually one side messed up and got stomped…
With this new patch things are faster..any miss step you take and ablot of downs.. you can see downs on 1st and 2nd push already and lots of stun and interrupt..
That makes fight more interesting.. you gotta stay more focused and every move REALLY matters now..
So what if meta gonna change..
Melee train gonna stkll be kitten in my opinion..why?? 1stunhammer in the stack and all those ele trying to generate might stacks will be gone before they can even see whats going on…
All it takes now is for you to take care and engage carefully…
Glass cannon frontline builds for sure gonna fail…gonna need to be tanky…but since i am already tanky…34k hp 3.1k armor…I LIKE IT..
I m not there to hit 10k…im there to BOMB and help the backline do their thing…

Just my toughts

Yeah, but how this warrior can strike eles when he get 20 ccs on his face? The point is that u can’t reach papers with ur meele train. That is 1. argument. 2. as u typed u had really big numbers against really big numbers( 40 vs 50?) What I talk about is 20 vs 60( u can;t do this anymore) and 60 vs 60 – pugs( u just insta die).

Maybe you can’t. Doesn’t mean some of us haven’t figured out alternate methods.

coglin.1867:

Maybe you can’t. Doesn’t mean some of us haven’t figured out alternate methods.

this is why ranger is strong.

So say there is 20 statics out there. What can ranger do? halt – swap to LB and blast the papers FROM OUTSIDE THEIR RANGE. When enemy guards and warriors move in, what do you do? you swap to melee and just carry on.

HYBRIDS IS THE WAY TO GO.

edit: rangers can take boar pet to get AOE fear or cleave stun. Terrible pet, great RNG F2.

The ‘N’ isnt lost due to lack of stab – where i play, necros find places in melee parties and get stab from guards, only scrubs used to run 4+ guards in one party, thats why i dont get the ‘perma stab’ problem…

Murksler.5261:

Capturing anything besides camps won’t be possible anymore with this changes.
If you push you’re dead.

That is in fact not true. We fought outnumbered last night and we pushed quite a lot. Yes I got pulled and knocked down more but we didn’t die.