Guild Wars 2

Havnt really had a chance to test these changes out yet, we run a small man havoc squad in WvW and tbh numbers dont need any more of an advantage. Guess we will see what sort of alterations need to be made as we go forward. We can all speculate but only time will tell.

As for numbers/blobs, they already have the advantage that any AoE they have hits every member of our 5 man, whilst ours only hits 5 max out of however many players they have. They have more resources to rally downed players/stomp our downed players. more players to apply DPS pressure on any downed players.

The whole downed state in and of itself is heavily geared towards numbers. I have a lot of fraps where you can see we are dropping players as we move but we have no chance of ever getting in for a stomp vs large numbers, to do so is suicide.

Stability was way too ubiquitous, granted. But this was a mechanics problem from piggy backing a combat system based around 5-8 vs 5-8 into a massive open world environment where the combat can scale up to 40 v 40.

GW2 is still probably the best WvW combat out there currently, but its not a patch on DAoC in it’s prime.

Veil fakes with a double dodge back? Yep. Nothing new there. Let them blow all their CDs, push in, gg. I honestly haven’t seen the meta change just yet, but, well, it’s been less than a day, so who knows?

Now if they just fixed the down-state and shouts from across the map bug, I’d be happy. It is super creepy when you’re roaming solo or in a group to hear “I need help!” or any other shout when there’s nobody else around you. Guess that wasn’t a priority in the two hotfixes they pushed out today. But it’s fine, guys! They delayed the patch for a week so it could undergo additional QA testing!

What the hell, Anet.

Worst change ever. Sorry, but when you can have your full 25 stacks stripped in less than a second, there’s no chance for any counter play. There’s no room for skill. It is impossible for humans to react that fast.

I would be less upset over this if there was actual balancing done in terms of cc’s, cripple, immobilize, and chill. This was an outright nerf plain and simple

Imo this is one of the best changes done. Yesterday with our guild raid it was possible to handle fsp or sfr blobs because CC bombs now work for real!! It’s true, you can’t push with stability up (aka I don’t care about what you do I will get close to you). Metagame is open now for very different options and dummy stability push is not the only viable way now.

In fairness, the last time my character was stopped by a CC was well, a really long time, but this seems pretty dumb. Like others have said, it makes blobbing way better which I still can’t believe so many do. Don’t people wanna be “300” and not a huge enemy blob?

So idk, I’ll try to play the game and see if my guild do some different stuff but sheesh stab is just hugely nerfed.

hey guys i will now go pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew pew from 1500 range with my zerg cause whoever charges their melee first would get stripped of their stability and then proceed to die to well bombs. To the people praising the change, wth is so great about it? now its going to be a range warfare which is boring as hell and now zergs will just have a stand off shooting at each other. GG anet.

And the winner is……
The Revenant with aoe knock down at range.

How to make a new prof in 6 lessons:
1) Make a real weakness to current meta => make stab amazingly unavailable
2) Give to new profession huge access to the missing ressource=>stab on dodge + pulsing stab to allys with 5 sec cooldown => bye bye guards ?
3) Provide amazing skill to new prof to benefit of the missing ressource in the context of new meta (mostly ranged now)=>aoe range kd
4) Make existing dominant prof less and less appealing to push people to reroll
5) Bring a new map where missing ressource is crucial
6) Profit and laugh :-)

I dont see how this stability nerf reduces the blobing situation as, yesterday we hardly had a chance against 30-40 blob in 20-25 mens since each time (after several minutes of circle around each other ) we end up dead before we actually reached something to hit.
So this is probably going to encourage players to blob even more and a little bit kill the smaller WvW guild that aren`t gvg focus and until this nerf apear where able to at least give a fight to a smaler blob.

PS: RIP Warrior :d

Sounds like the new meta will be bomb-chicken. Whoever commits to the fight first loses.

Its was not a smart idea on the part of anet. There is already a counter to stability. Its called soft cc, and boon striping. Kiting and dodging. The changes were unnecessarily and only hurt the game.

CC is too easily spammable and is to potent as is. Stability didnt need a conterplay there already was one. Its called learning how to play. ANET wants to turn WVW in to a brain dead blob where u just spam aoes and CCs to win with no counter play to it. Other than the one that we already had. Its dumb.

After 2 years of Hammer Train’s, thank Grent for a change of pace.

The old ways to get rid of stability were clearly not enough. Boon removal was unable to push through the mountains of boons and soft-CCs against AoE condition removal and Warriors, just Warriors in general, didn’t get the job done either.

not true. and no one that knows anything about anything would agree that hammer trains were the current meta. hammer trains is like 2 years ago. the current meta or last meta as we call it GWEN was the counter the the hammer train meta. everyone knows this except the uniformed probably the same people that told anet to do this. It was a balanced front line backline meta not no dumb hammer train.

Alex Eternity.8195:

dunno how it will pan out. however from what i heard and played myself, there is one big reason why people keep playing wvw or even gw2 nowadays:

the most dynamic, intense (group) combat experience in any group/mmo pvp currently available.

My experience with alot of games is, that range fighing is the norm, everyone stands at safe range, casts aoe and single target dps on the other side….and frankly, in my opinion thats boring.

On of the greatest things in gw2 combat was that it was viable!! to engage in melee combat (which is almost extinct in pvp games where range is an option), being really in there, fighting foot and nail instead of yawning and semi afk stand afar.

In my humble opinion it would really water down the experience if it will become just another range vs range combat system, because as everywhere, melee is just not worth the risk anymore

This, pretty much this.

Many of us enjoyed this game mode because of the adrenaline filled, quick paced heavy action experience, very dynamic, and fun.

Of course, others enjoy other aspects of the game, no surprise here. Some may say that unskilled hammer train zerg players are complaining that they will now need brain, but this is not really the case.

Did stability make you invincible? No. It was countered quite effectively, one mistake and your whole team possibly wiped.

Did this change make the game better? For some, but for others it will ruin the experience. Many of us quite enjoyed the fact that we could successfully fight with enemy forces that were bigger, and not just from the distance. It gave that “300” feeling while picking up fights with the enemy zoneblob, as my server frequently faces bigger forces.

Will this make gameplay more diverse? Guess no, people will ditch guardians and add necros, and have a standstill war from a distance. I don’t think this will make the game experience a lot better.

Will this help weaker servers to have enjoyable fights and still have chances with the enemy? Not really sure about that. Maybe, if they go back and defend from the towers without really playing on the field.

Will people adapt? Of course. Although they might not have the same fun and possibly just say “kitten it” and stop playing. This might mean different faces will play WvW instead, possibly more PvE players will come and play especially with the new PvE WvW maps. But whoever currently enjoys WvW will possibly get bored and just leave the game.

Just my $0.02. Of course, you may say I’m pessimistic and have L2P problems – I just explained how I feel about this change, none needs to agree me

what you wanna roll now is a cleric celestial hybrid melee ranger.

pros>
pulsing stability
AOE party buffs (prot, cleansing, water field, precision)
Can be exceptionally tanky
has the second strongest ranged damage in game after ele
Can have a zerg setup with both frontline and backline properties (LB GS)
pet has extra utility, if new meta favors mid range and cautious approach, pets will work

cons>
noone likes rangers
really, noone likes rangers at all
loss of imaginary pride
pets suck vs aoe

New meta will prolly be a more generous mix of classes
20% warrior + ranger mix (you need that AOE stun and banner + flexibility of rangers)
30% guardians
15% eles (water fields, AOE DPS)
5% venomshare thieves (let us not forget people. AOE STUN VENOM + IMMOB. very strong now that guards gotta run with more stability sharing. Venoms now use thief condi damage, so DIRE thief will do massive poison + torment damage to targets)
30% engineers (superior mid range AOE, party buffs, superior AOE condition spam. Water field, blast finishers, extreme PBAOE damage from bombs)

Murksler.5261:

This change brings more blob, more caster standoffs and less meele fights. Capturing objects will not be possible anymore, only if you heavily outnumbers you enemys you’re able to capture a keep.

Strange, I’ve seen people pushing through chokes yesterday, maybe if you wait for the CC to disappear your pushes will be more successful…

Kicast.1459:

And the winner is……
The Revenant with aoe knock down at range.

How to make a new prof in 6 lessons:
1) Make a real weakness to current meta => make stab amazingly unavailable
2) Give to new profession huge access to the missing ressource=>stab on dodge + pulsing stab to allys with 5 sec cooldown => bye bye guards ?
3) Provide amazing skill to new prof to benefit of the missing ressource in the context of new meta (mostly ranged now)=>aoe range kd
4) Make existing dominant prof less and less appealing to push people to reroll
5) Bring a new map where missing ressource is crucial
6) Profit and laugh :-)

yes if the change delivered the same time with the new class , but this change destroyed the current meta without bring the new class and leaved the new meta in a chaos state.

all of the players in my friend list can not wait play the new class , i see no reason to destroy a whole game mode to promote just a new race that it is not present …..

laugh without profit is mindless and stupid , because wvw guilds will cancel their moves from one server to an other before figure how to proper run in wvw …..

also i couldn’t agree more with X T D @ https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Stability-changes-general/4887389

Reborn.2934:

Kicast.1459:

And the winner is……
The Revenant with aoe knock down at range.

How to make a new prof in 6 lessons:
1) Make a real weakness to current meta => make stab amazingly unavailable
2) Give to new profession huge access to the missing ressource=>stab on dodge + pulsing stab to allys with 5 sec cooldown => bye bye guards ?
3) Provide amazing skill to new prof to benefit of the missing ressource in the context of new meta (mostly ranged now)=>aoe range kd
4) Make existing dominant prof less and less appealing to push people to reroll
5) Bring a new map where missing ressource is crucial
6) Profit and laugh :-)

yes if the change delivered the same time with the new class , but this change destroyed the current meta without bring the new class and leaved the new meta in a chaos state.

all of the players in my friend list can not wait play the new class , i see no reason to destroy a whole game mode to promote just a new race that it is not present …..

laugh without profit is mindless and stupid , because wvw guilds will cancel their moves from one server to an other before figure how to proper run in wvw …..

All you are talking about sounds perfectly aligned with what I said.
In the end:

…leaved the new meta in a chaos state…
…all of the players in my friend list can not wait play the new class…
…laugh without profit is mindless and stupid…

Don’t be affraid….profit’s coming.
All what you see today is “Teasing”

Yeah, the stability nerf is pretty much as it sounds and as I thought it would be. It just favors the map queue blob over the 15 man wrecking machine.

And a resurgence of terrormancers will be happening in roaming, Im sure everyone with a necro is in joy right now.

Some said that warrior can run berserk stance instead of banner…NICE JOKE MAN. U have totally diffrent skills there, that are mostly useless. 2. thing now, some said that u have to w8 till end of ccs, but…U CAN’T RUN BLOB OUT OF CCS! with 60 man blob u have 40 ccs rotation – just 10 eles is enough to stop whole enemy mt kitten . Other ppl said to count stabil etc. and use it for certain moments, that is what we did yesterday and what? We lost stabil in 0,5 sec – all stacks that we could make. So don’t give me stuff like think about new builds etc. This stabil is now only functional against same numbers groups. Not with zerg vs blob, just can’t handle number of stabil and cc in blob – before patch u could

The blob definitely has a superior advantage and with so many AoE CCs it’s rough to even peel the group without a few of your group getting stuck. Baiting works a bit but with crit dmg nerf and this stab change the blob runs through groups of 20 pretty easily now.

What ya need is Siege Onager.

Age of Empires II style.

R.I.P. stacked range players.

Or bring some reflects and wait for Hammer Revenants leading the hammer trains like Pavise.

Time for some good old sanctuary – judge’s intervention combo teams against those range blobs.

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you’re dying in a zerg because you blobbed up and expected stability to carry you, it’s a L2P issue.

The meta is changing. The way forward is there.

This.

\thread

nightblood.7910:

Yeah, the stability nerf is pretty much as it sounds and as I thought it would be. It just favors the map queue blob over the 15 man wrecking machine.

And a resurgence of terrormancers will be happening in roaming, Im sure everyone with a necro is in joy right now.

Everyone who is ranged is super happy right now. RIP melee except to clean up.

Lots of ignorance being thrown on this thread.

Stability changes favor the blobs. Did the fire and forget stability of yesterday need rework….Yes and no.

Reason it did was because it was too face roll. Throw up stab and go smash kitten. Granted there was more to it but the gist of it is that.

Now the reason it was like that was because of how the core game play of GW2 is. With AoE caps and the entire game rewarding nut hugging 100 of your closest bro’s stability allowed a smaller group of skilled players to win.

Anet fixed stability, but failed to address the other problem. That is why people are going to complain. They should have addressed both.

Hylgeriak.8250:

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you’re dying in a zerg because you blobbed up and expected stability to carry you, it’s a L2P issue.

The meta is changing. The way forward is there.

This.

\thread

What is it about you guys and your incapability to understand the situation?

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

Zergs and Blobs are too strong now because they can dish out a near unlimited amount of CC from their large number of players which can infinitely strip out the extremely limited stacks of stability for you to get in there and bust them. Zerging and Blobbing have never been stronger with these changes.

Oh no that vid from TA doesnt look fun at all. I was never a fan of the hammer/melee train but this yarrrrrrr combat was left to the caster class.

Kodiak.3281:

Hylgeriak.8250:

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you’re dying in a zerg because you blobbed up and expected stability to carry you, it’s a L2P issue.

The meta is changing. The way forward is there.

This.

\thread

What is it about you guys and your incapability to understand the situation?

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

Zergs and Blobs are too strong now because they can dish out a near unlimited amount of CC from their large number of players which can infinitely strip out the extremely limited stacks of stability for you to get in there and bust them. Zerging and Blobbing have never been stronger with these changes.

Exactly, all are speaking about too op boost for blobs, now u can’t win by quallity, u just win by numbers. SImple example 20 ppl zerg is up against 60 blob, who win with new stab? Ofcourse blob coso f 3x more cc and 3x more stabil stacks. Gj anet, gj, is that ur way to balance WvW? To make all blob now? Nice thinking guys

Enox.5870:

Stab change is the worst thing ever. WHY even change it. It was fine just the way it was. No one complained about it.

You have the right to dislike the new changes, but saying that no one complained about the zerg strategy is just a plain lie. There were dozens and dozens of threads, week after week, complaining that pressing one button (SYG) to ignore all CC and just run into the enemy force pressing one was skill-less and boring.

To every wannabe pro GvG fighter complaining about not being able to break a zerg anymore: why were you supposed to win in the first place? You’re not skilled if you use the exact same strategy the PU zerg uses. On my server, GvG commanders tag up for the PUGs when their raid is off, so the only difference comes from a bit less coordination (at least half of the melee train is on TS though), and some weak links “skilled” players can rally off.

Really skilled guilds will find a way to use their coordination to still win. Every PU blob can press SYG at the same time and run into another blob. You have a too high opinion of yourself.

RIP t3.
RIP warriors.
RIP Melee train.
;_;

Sorel.4870:

Enox.5870:

Stab change is the worst thing ever. WHY even change it. It was fine just the way it was. No one complained about it.

You have the right to dislike the new changes, but saying that no one complained about the zerg strategy is just a plain lie. There were dozens and dozens of threads, week after week, complaining that pressing one button (SYG) to ignore all CC and just run into the enemy force pressing one was skill-less and boring.

To every wannabe pro GvG fighter complaining about not being able to break a zerg anymore: why were you supposed to win in the first place? You’re not skilled if you use the exact same strategy the PU zerg uses. On my server, GvG commanders tag up for the PUGs when their raid is off, so the only difference comes from a bit less coordination (at least half of the melee train is on TS though), and some weak links “skilled” players can rally off.

Really skilled guilds will find a way to use their coordination to still win. Every PU blob can press SYG at the same time and run into another blob. You have a too high opinion of yourself.

No1 here complain about not breaking zerg, all complain about not being able to break BLOB ANYMORE. Earleir u could, now against 3x more ccs and 3x more stab stacks u can’t do anything. It doesn;t even matter if u are pro guild / zerg, you just can’t pass tons of ccs that blobs throw everywhere. Also putting 25 stacks of stab at u don’t work( at last against blobs), they melt in no time So ur arguments aren’t right atm. Basically now u can’t wipe 2x more ppl than u have. Even 5 ppl more in mt is enough to unbalance it and make u win over the guys without those 5 ppl in mt.

We have to wait until resistance is launched before we can evaluate the whole new system of boons. How long you can stack resistance? How easy you can spread or reapply it? Resistance could negate the effects of fear walls/marks and static fields long enough that melee trains will be back soon.

Belenwyn.8674:

We have to wait until resistance is launched before we can evaluate the whole new system of boons. How long you can stack resistance? How easy you can spread or reapply it? Resistance could negate the effects of fear walls/marks and static fields long enough that melee trains will be back soon.

Just to let u know, resistance is against conditions, not ccs So u won’t get immo, chill etc. not static field.

Sorel.4870

You have the right to dislike the new changes, but saying that no one complained about the zerg strategy is just a plain lie. There were dozens and dozens of threads, week after week, complaining that pressing one button (SYG) to ignore all CC and just run into the enemy force pressing one was skill-less and boring.

To every wannabe pro GvG fighter complaining about not being able to break a zerg anymore: why were you supposed to win in the first place? You’re not skilled if you use the exact same strategy the PU zerg uses. On my server, GvG commanders tag up for the PUGs when their raid is off, so the only difference comes from a bit less coordination (at least half of the melee train is on TS though), and some weak links “skilled” players can rally off.

Really skilled guilds will find a way to use their coordination to still win. Every PU blob can press SYG at the same time and run into another blob. You have a too high opinion of yourself.

Cc immunity due stability was pretty much countered by use of soft and hard cc to kill small groups of the zerg. So you’re totally wrong with your comment.

I can tell you what will happens. First some People, who need time to addept will still try to push into the enemy to produce pressure. The Problem with this is, it isn’t working anymore. After the most people understand that there will be a caster standoff and no more real frontline. Pressure will not come anymore from a frontline in meele range, it will come from caster, but this will boring like hell.
Best example is the video already posted here.

Resistance makes you immune against fear and stun too as long as the new boon is active. You can be pulled or pushed back – all CCs that are no conditions are working. As long as stability and resistance are active nothing will stop or harm you.

Belenwyn.8674:

Resistance makes you immune against fear and stun too as long as the new boon is active. You can be pulled or pushed back – all CCs that are no conditions are working. As long as stability and resistance are active nothing will stop or harm you.

Check wiki , stun is not a condition, it’s a control effect. Fear is a condition.

Bubi.5237:

Belenwyn.8674:

Resistance makes you immune against fear and stun too as long as the new boon is active. You can be pulled or pushed back – all CCs that are no conditions are working. As long as stability and resistance are active nothing will stop or harm you.

Check wiki , stun is not a condition, it’s a control effect. Fear is a condition.

Yes, you are right.

But still the future combination of stability and resistance will be very strong and maybe totally OP with the old stability mechanism.

Static field is hard CC, it stuns you so resistance won’t help at all. EDIT: I see someone was already faster

Sorel.4870:

To every wannabe pro GvG fighter complaining about not being able to break a zerg anymore: why were you supposed to win in the first place? You’re not skilled if you use the exact same strategy the PU zerg uses.

If they were using the same tactics with fewer people on and still won, it must have been magic then. Right now, playing melee against superior numbers is simply impossible with the amount of CC available in this game, ANet has decided that it’s no longer viable to win because of better coordination and teamwork, you just need more lines of warding and static fields.

Murksler.5261:

Cc immunity due stability was pretty much countered by use of soft and hard cc to kill small groups of the zerg. So you’re totally wrong with your comment.

And still, the same strategy was used by PU blobs. The only reason you were able to kill these small group is because there always was a portion of the blob that wasn’t using TS, not because you were significally more skilled. In small scale, if I want to win a 1v2 or a 1v3, I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully. In zerg fights, you shouldn’t expect to win outnumbered if you’re not significally more skilled. Sorry if it bursts your “pro-GvG-guild” bubble.

Murksler.5261:

I can tell you what will happens. First some People, who need time to addept will still try to push into the enemy to produce pressure. The Problem with this is, it isn’t working anymore. After the most people understand that there will be a caster standoff and no more real frontline. Pressure will not come anymore from a frontline in meele range, it will come from caster, but this will boring like hell.
Best example is the video already posted here.

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

Sorel.4870:

Murksler.5261:

Cc immunity due stability was pretty much countered by use of soft and hard cc to kill small groups of the zerg. So you’re totally wrong with your comment.

And still, the same strategy was used by PU blobs. The only reason you were able to kill these small group is because there always was a portion of the blob that wasn’t using TS, not because you were significally more skilled. In small scale, if I want to win a 1v2 or a 1v3, I have to consistently outplay my opponents, and use more advanced strategies: I can not just fight them on the spot like I would in 1v1: I have to kite, to use LoS, to time bursts carefully. In zerg fights, you shouldn’t expect to win outnumbered if you’re not significally more skilled. Sorry if it bursts your “pro-GvG-guild” bubble.

Murksler.5261:

I can tell you what will happens. First some People, who need time to addept will still try to push into the enemy to produce pressure. The Problem with this is, it isn’t working anymore. After the most people understand that there will be a caster standoff and no more real frontline. Pressure will not come anymore from a frontline in meele range, it will come from caster, but this will boring like hell.
Best example is the video already posted here.

I’m really interested in knowing if this will be the definitive meta. One problem you can already see in the video is that in GW2, unlike most other “ranged” MMOs, you don’t kill people: they go into downed state. You clearly see in the video that the ranged pressure isn’t enough to cleave downed bodies, especially is you run mercy runes. So the winning strategy will probably rely on some kind of melee train to finish the downed. Have you played on Courtyard in PvP? It’s a bit like this: no perma stab, so you have a phase in the beginning when each team is at range carefully studying the weaknesses in the other team, until the CCs and stab are baited out and one camp pushes into the other. I suppose the new meta will be something like that.

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Kodiak.3281:

Hylgeriak.8250:

Ross Biddle.2367:

If you’re dying in a zerg because you blobbed up and expected stability to carry you, it’s a L2P issue.

The meta is changing. The way forward is there.

This.

\thread

What is it about you guys and your incapability to understand the situation?

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

Zergs and Blobs are too strong now because they can dish out a near unlimited amount of CC from their large number of players which can infinitely strip out the extremely limited stacks of stability for you to get in there and bust them. Zerging and Blobbing have never been stronger with these changes.

Zergs can still be busted. You now gotta approach them diffrently.

smaller groups must prioritize AOE stunbreak (guard/mesmer) and heavy mass CC followed by a DPS nuke.
These rotations must have low to medium cooldown (>10 sec all the way up to 45 sec CD).

You also need to use terrainadvantage more. Now that mesmers and thieves got a harder time ninjaporting behind your group (goes both ways, i know that), zergs will be forced to run you down, or escape.

The new meta for busting will be mobility hit n run. If your class is incapable of locking down then nuking and then running, it will not work for busting.

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

Sorel.4870:

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

Winning is one thing, but maybe not all.
Enjoying playing is more important I guess (for me at least).

Kodiak.3281:

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

The ‘complaint’ in regard to busting zergs comes from NA players where public zergs are well terrible, ‘zerg busting’ has not really been a thing on EU for a long time at least in regard to decent experienced servers.

In EU much of the time the public zergs at least on certain servers, are actually open raids hosted by a guild or are effectively open raids because you have more players from GvG/WvW guilds (or simply are very experienced) than the guild you are facing, so outside of the very rare occasion the days of guilds like RG wiping a 60 man zerg have long gone.

zinkz.7045:

Kodiak.3281:

The complaint here from most people is that they can no longer bust zergs.

The ‘complaint’ in regard to busting zergs comes from NA players where public zergs are well terrible, ‘zerg busting’ has not really been a thing on EU for a long time at least in regard to decent experienced servers.

In EU much of the time the public zergs at least on certain servers, are actually open raids hosted by a guild or are effectively open raids because you have more players from GvG/WvW guilds (or simply are very experienced) than the guild you are facing, so outside of the very rare occasion the days of guilds like RG wiping a 60 man zerg have long gone.

Ok I would like to apologize to the people I could have offended because I honestly didn’t know that. I play on EU and indeed, on my server “elite guilds” use the same strategy as PU zergs (it’s often the same commanders), that’s why I never understood why people were complaining about not being able to bust “less skilled” zergs.

Well, that should solve some issues! If zergs are terrible in NA, it should be easier to come up with a new strategy they won’t be able to adapt to, right?

Sorel.4870:

Arathor.7419:

the problem with courtyard is they are equal numbers for some of us guilds who enjoy running 20 or below and fight against 30+ zergs or more its impossible for us now to do anything

Tough life. Change your strategy, and I assure you you will still win in the future.

yup, just gotta mix up the classes.

Hybrid ranged melee frontline. So that your zerg can quickly retreat a few steps and do massive ranged damage, then switch back to frontal assault style for the remaining stragglers.

Sorry, but my NA servers were lengths better than the EU servers I’ve been on. All 4 silver tier.

Jana.6831:

Sorry, but my NA servers were lengths better than the EU servers I’ve been on. All 4 silver tier.

Well if that’s the case, “skilled” groups of 20 should not have a chance against “no-skill” blobs of 60 by abusing stability, AoE cap and rallying on low levels. They should win because they play better.

So under the old stab, a coordinated group on teamspeak could beat a larger uncoordinated group, and now they’re less likely to be able to do that… how is that a good thing? That means numbers have greater relative importance and communication/cohesion has less relative importance. Isn’t that the exact opposite of what we should want?