Guild Wars 2

Columba.9730:

I encourage those of you who can see the badly imbalancing nature of stealth in this game to send complaints to anet. Even many, fair-minded, thieves admit that stealth is badly broken, but a few thieves cling to their overpowered status. there’s a very good reason that no other game allows perma stealth even during attacks or getting damage. It ruins pvp.

It’s okay Columba, I’m sure you’ve sent enough for everybody.

sostronk.8167:

RyuDragnier.9476:

sostronk.8167:

This is my first MMO. My impression of MMOs has always been that players are bad at PvP in MMOs. I just came upon the realisation that my impression was completely correct whilst reading this thread.

Try fighting a good thief in WvW as one of your alts.

Id be willing to take on any thief in WvW with my Warrior and bet my left testicle I beat them.

I bet he already lost his left testicle in a bet and has nothing left to lose.

oZii.2864:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

My point is arguing that a Thief who’s running around stealth killing people can’t contribute is silly.

If I come across an undefended keep on my thief I can easily take it, Just like Warcamps..

Pretty much all classes can do that I’m pretty sure with little trouble.

Difference of course being if i’m attacked on my thief i’ll escape while the other classes will probably die.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

My point is arguing that a Thief who’s running around stealth killing people can’t contribute is silly.

If I come across an undefended keep on my thief I can easily take it, Just like Warcamps..

Pretty much all classes can do that I’m pretty sure with little trouble.

Difference of course being if i’m attacked on my thief i’ll escape while the other classes will probably die.

Which is part of the problem being argued. I also think it’s BS that you can “finish” an opponent while stealthed… or use a skill at all while in stealth… but that’s just me…

I’m not saying get rid of stealth or hating on classes that CAN stealth, but I do agree, it AND culling are a problem, if only because they provide an unfair advantage because there is no good way to counter them. (Argue building a character to counter stealthing all you want, the fact remains there is yet to be a proven build in any class that is an even 90% effective hard counter to stealth and those classes that use it. If there is one, I’d like to see it posted. I’m currently working to have a level 80 of all classes, and I’d like to try it out for myself, for whatever class it would end up working on.)

Jeahanne.5209:

there is yet to be a proven build in any class that is an even 90% effective hard counter to stealth and those classes that use it. If there is one, I’d like to see it posted. I’m currently working to have a level 80 of all classes, and I’d like to try it out for myself, for whatever class it would end up working on.

D/D bunker ele.

Pretty easy build to find, because I see them running around everywhere in WvW these days.

Enjoy!

LOCO.1785:

Jeahanne.5209:

there is yet to be a proven build in any class that is an even 90% effective hard counter to stealth and those classes that use it. If there is one, I’d like to see it posted. I’m currently working to have a level 80 of all classes, and I’d like to try it out for myself, for whatever class it would end up working on.

D/D bunker ele.

Pretty easy build to find, because I see them running around everywhere in WvW these days.

Enjoy!

A D/D ele can still only hit what they can see though. Flailing around blindly and praying to hit something isn’t a true counter in my opinion… and everyone who uses anything but a ranged weapon can do that…

However, I shall try that tomorrow, just to see how it works out since I’m a curious person. I’d record my efforts but I haven’t the technology, so you’ll have to take my word for what happens.

Jeahanne.5209:

A D/D ele can still only hit what they can see though. Flailing around blindly and praying to hit something isn’t a true counter in my opinion… and everyone who uses anything but a ranged weapon can do that…

However, I shall try that tomorrow, just to see how it works out since I’m a curious person. I’d record my efforts but I haven’t the technology, so you’ll have to take my word for what happens.

I’d honestly be keen to hear how you do.

My main is a thief, not the cookie cutter build you see most people rocking, but I rely on getting close and meleeing to get kills. Honestly D/D eles are a nightmare for thieves, especially the really skilled ones. They just have so many tools in their arsenal from crazy CC, to deadly AoE making it a real pain to stay on them. Then when you think you got them, they heal back up or zip off into the distance.

I don’t think you’ll be disappointed. I heard they got some slight nerfs in the latest patch, but I’m not sure how much that’s effected them as I don’t play one.

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Unfortunately that would require me to change my whole build around. Not something you can do on the run.

The dread 30/30/30/30/30 Thieves. These threads throw them up a lot.

P/d condition don’t burst anyone. Glass cannon Backstab are one trick ponies that players seem to at last have worked out (3 months after spvp). Stealth backstab hybrids are slow and burst about 6k. S/d are shadowstepping half the time which is mistaken for stealth. None of them are perma stealth 1 shotting tanks that drown you in conditions with massive speed around the map. They can all be countered.

The reason you can make www vids of thieves owning the field is the same as the reason for vids of other classes doing the same. There are a lot of badly built, badly geared, badly played characters in www.

Thiefs can also make a solar eclipse, so they can permastealthed many things like: houses, towers, trains or big barrels of special waste.

@OP – I totally agree. Mesmer stealth ain’t a problem. they can’t get anywhere near permostealth, and have decent cooldowms.
The stealth finishers are bull crap, a finisher is meant to be a way to finish someone off from being downed instead of slashing them for ages, and also giving the downed person a chance to interrupt or escape it once, but stealth finishers can’t be avoided unless you’re a mesmer guardian or thief.

Remove stealth finishers please its annoying.

How does a mesmer avoid a stealth finisher?

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

My point is arguing that a Thief who’s running around stealth killing people can’t contribute is silly.

If I come across an undefended keep on my thief I can easily take it, Just like Warcamps..

Pretty much all classes can do that I’m pretty sure with little trouble.

Difference of course being if i’m attacked on my thief i’ll escape while the other classes will probably die.

I never said that you aren’t contributing what I said is that you running around killing people has a small effect on the overall game mode that is WvW.

Your video example didn’t show anything that upset the balance of WvW. Your trolling of those people that took the camp didn’t do anything they still took the camp.

You solo’d a keep I don’t understand what so upsetting to WvW balance in that video either. I still don’t see any good arguments that any of this throws the balance of WvW off in the slightest.

Maybe that is why elementalists didn’t get huge nerfs in WvW and thieves didn’t get nerfed (5 months running) because all these complaints people are making aren’t game breaking. Its not like all the servers in Tier 1 have more thieves and elementalists than the servers below them. If that was the case then I can get behind the complaints but that isn’t why they are in Tier 1.

Most of the these complaints could be valid if it was 5v5 or 3v3 or a duel. Its not any of those things. You could have solo’d on another class the keep and probably more likely to die on another class but the same could have been said about a glass cannon thief. Whats he gonna do go respec to condition and then solo. You also said you got inside because of a hole in the wall that a treb made lol. How does this even prove anything about a thief and or stealth.

Respec your thief to damage with 13-17k hp or whatever you like and lets say 15 points in trick then show me you solo a keep. That is why someone above said 30/30/30/30/30 thief spec. A condition thief has a much easier time soloing a keep than a burst damage thief you should know that.

If you got inside by a hole in the wall that a treb made you didn’t need stealth anyway. I am sure I can find a video of another class soloing a keep that had a big hole in the wall.

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

lol you didnt know you can switch to venoms on the run? I suddenly understand why you dont want culling/stealth bug abuse to be fixed….you know, you switch BACK after unless..Are you serious you cant kill eles in 1v1 or 1v2?…and ye, all other players are bad ofc. ofc…its just eles are op, right right? .Btw with the increased survivability (BUFF to HEALING, WHAT are you THINKING about devs? Did any of your dev team consisting of ONLY thieves get killed? Maybe try PLAYING other classes DEVELOPERS!!)) you dont really need to specc into anything anymore. Forget venoms. If, by a miracle you take a bit of beating, your increased healing skills will MORE than enough cover for that. Lets see what we have here; Someone mentioned lowes health pool…..are you nuts? Ill give an example, that GUARDIAN you deem OP (because you cant kill it in 3 secs…FOrgot to add a guard specced like that cant kill anyone in return) have lower hp. Do they whine? I just cant stop myself from thinking, theres a fair few thieves totally agreeing stealth is op etc. then theres the thieves complaining about RANGER PETS, asking for a NERF…….How likely is it those will EVER reach the point they can play any class without chosing the one with the most abuse possibilities? Hold on to the culling abuse, just cling to that one little thing which makes it possible for yourself to pat your backs and call any other players baddies and noobs. You will never get it anway. Shelving MY thief until its fixed.
Down under, another pro-hero, who doesnt know how to swich abilities on the run. Well done sir, well done.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

If you come across a D/D ele, switch to venoms

D/D ele’s aren’t hard to kill on a thief..

Both my Ranger and Thief mow through them rather easily.

Expert advice here if your running S/D, D/D, S/P, D/P, P/P and your a burst thief. Traits are 30/30/30/30/30 You see RTL quickly switch to quick venoms for the cooldown reduction. Also swap into the carrion gear you have in your inventory and swap your trinkets and sigils.

Switch to venoms guys to kill d/d elementalists.

this is too much work. you have to simply hit him once, than send thieve’s special DoS attack and put D/D ele’s PC in BSoD. He will be disconnected and you can loot tha bag.

I feel bad no one is going after Engineer stealth in this thread. Being able to have a 50% chance to stealth for 3 seconds every 60 seconds is ridic. Everyone who has been on the receiving end of the massive damage an engineer can do coming out of stealth knows what I’m talking about….

Either class (thief/ D/D Ele) are mostly two sides of two coins in which one coin you have those who played the class enough to the point where they can play them extremely well and counter alot of players and those who got their butts kicked to the point where they made the class thinking they can either one shot (Burst thief), or god fight multiple people (D/D Ele) just to get thrashed around. While the second coin represents one side being a player who knows how the class plays out and knows how to take them down easily, and players who dont play well for squat and just get face rolled about. While both coins have their have their chances for ups and downs, (both most common flips being on the negative ends with the players in gaming today) the best way to remedy this is just to hope the negative ended players either get better or find a different class to play that isnt something they got their butts kicked or seen in a fight vid.

I play both thief (Venom and stealth scout) and ele (D/D ofcourse) and have fought both types of matchup where I have had wins and losses on each fight. Where I have taken down poor Eles with my thief and poor thieves with ele in one on one fights. For thieves its all about predictability since most common thieves love to start out with stealthing and playing thief stealth could last from 3-6 seconds depending if they stacked, pretty much you could either time a double dodge, or use an temp invuln skill/block. But the most dangerous thieves I have played against are the unpredictable ones. Ones who dont do the common explode the persons hp in one blow deal.

With D/D eles, venoms with thieves work pretty well unless the ele can use their attunements pretty well. The easiest ones I have fought were ones who just stuck with wind and fire attunements only using water to heal and hardly use earth. A dangerous ele uses all of their attunements and change periodically to cycle the buffs each offered if traited a certain way as well as using certain consumables.

Ending argument, both sides in a fight between the two classes have their strengths and weakness, its all about the player behind them that makes the major difference. You could tell a thief player to use venoms but wouldnt mean that they know how to use them against an experienced d/d ele.

killimandros.5087:

lol you didnt know you can switch to venoms on the run? I suddenly understand why you dont want culling/stealth bug abuse to be fixed….you know, you switch BACK.
Down under, another pro-hero, who doesnt know how to swich abilities on the run. Well done sir, well done.

So sad this post is, but continue to show you lack of knowledge about a thief you and xsorus. Your caps indicate that your post was written quickly and you were excited to jump all over my response thats how I view it and its a good laugh.

I was being sarcastic but I’ll school you on something you could easily search before coming to save your friend who pretty much showed how deep his knowledge of a thief is or he didn’t read at all and replied quickly (hope its the latter)

1) You don’t need any trait to run venoms the cd reduction trait is 20 points into DA. Venoms are a utility.

2) If your running a burst thief build why would you run venoms? At best you would run devourer for the immobilize even still why would you take the cd reduction on 1 venom in a burst build? I am sure you don’t know so you don’t have to bother answering.

Not every thief is running P/D condition spec like xsorus is in his video. Sorry to disappoint you. I use to run it and pretty much know it inside and out. Most people aren’t even running venoms on P/D anyway to begin.

I also didn’t imply that you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 but you sure aren’t going to “switch to venom” running s/d and d/p thats you know dumb!

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry.

Right keep believing that lol. . I quickly hopped on skype so someone can tell me about venoms rofl!

Ill have that person call you so he can explain it to you too since you obviously don’t know.

I explained it to him yesterday, on skype. He did say, though, you are a"hard".

Why don’t they just bring Dagger mainhand in line with Sword main hand and Pistol mainhand?

Dagger Mainhand
-High single target damage
-Spammable Leap Finisher which deals high damage to targets below 50%
-Very High burst damage out of stealth
-Also viable if you go the condition damage route on D/D

Sword Mainhand
-Only has a burst on S/P (S/P has no inherent access to stealth)
-Sweeps but deals less damage to single targets
-Both have control playstyle but S/D can only access its contol move from stealth (meaning ideally S/D stealth will last less then a second either inducing blind or daze)
-Has a 2 way teleport

Pistol Mainhand
-Only has burst on its non-stealth set
-Only has blind on its non-stealth set
-Only has access to decent condition damage through stealth
-Bodyshot is really weak
-Shadow Strike is a spacers skill but lacks synergy with CnD to Sneak Attack
-Requires CnD to be an effective condition set

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Xsorus.2507:

I’ve not only soloed Supply camps on my thief, but Towers…

If you think Thieves are somehow weak in this department, you’re mistaken

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOogi5r4x68

Give it a bit, and it’ll pop up.

This is me solo killing the champion at the keep, I’d already killed the guards before I bothered to record.

It’s not very hard to do this either….Same method as players, Poison field the mobs and drop caltrops…

I mean…no one was there. I don’t see your point.

I think Xsorus is using this thread to promote his youtube cause these videos don’t prove anything.

Hey everyone subscribe to Xsorus youtube to watch videos of the obvious, thief is the only class in the game that can solo a keep and solo camps!!!

My point is arguing that a Thief who’s running around stealth killing people can’t contribute is silly.

If I come across an undefended keep on my thief I can easily take it, Just like Warcamps..

Pretty much all classes can do that I’m pretty sure with little trouble.

Difference of course being if i’m attacked on my thief i’ll escape while the other classes will probably die.

I never said that you aren’t contributing what I said is that you running around killing people has a small effect on the overall game mode that is WvW.

Your video example didn’t show anything that upset the balance of WvW. Your trolling of those people that took the camp didn’t do anything they still took the camp.

You solo’d a keep I don’t understand what so upsetting to WvW balance in that video either. I still don’t see any good arguments that any of this throws the balance of WvW off in the slightest.

Maybe that is why elementalists didn’t get huge nerfs in WvW and thieves didn’t get nerfed (5 months running) because all these complaints people are making aren’t game breaking. Its not like all the servers in Tier 1 have more thieves and elementalists than the servers below them. If that was the case then I can get behind the complaints but that isn’t why they are in Tier 1.

Most of the these complaints could be valid if it was 5v5 or 3v3 or a duel. Its not any of those things. You could have solo’d on another class the keep and probably more likely to die on another class but the same could have been said about a glass cannon thief. Whats he gonna do go respec to condition and then solo. You also said you got inside because of a hole in the wall that a treb made lol. How does this even prove anything about a thief and or stealth.

Respec your thief to damage with 13-17k hp or whatever you like and lets say 15 points in trick then show me you solo a keep. That is why someone above said 30/30/30/30/30 thief spec. A condition thief has a much easier time soloing a keep than a burst damage thief you should know that.

If you got inside by a hole in the wall that a treb made you didn’t need stealth anyway. I am sure I can find a video of another class soloing a keep that had a big hole in the wall.

What determines the Tier’s has zero to do with the issue at hand, Tier’s are decided based solely on population…T1 Has large population that can cover the maps 24/7, While T8 does not.

That doesn’t mean classes aren’t overpowered in small man fights, Or in large zerg fights, It simply means a Tier has more population then the other.

To even begin to claim that “Well it has nothing to do with why the Tiers are such and such, so they can’t be overpowered” is frankly moronic.

It’s comparing Apples to Oranges.

Hell, Its comparing Apples to a Jet Fighter…Because they’re issues that aren’t remotely related at all.

The whole notion that Class Balance shouldn’t be a concern in a point based PvP system is also frankly the dumbest thing i’ve heard in my entire 15 years of MMO gaming.

Not everyone is playing World vs World for the point based system, As soon as you get that into that thick head of yours, the better off you will be.

I repeat, Not everyone cares what tier you are, Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players…Because all the hype around the best server went away last year.

Now I realize you’re scared that thieves might be nerfed, and you might actually have to step up your game and learn to play a class that requires at least a small amount of skill. But I have faith in you….It’ll take some time, But you’ll eventually get there.

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

What are you talking about referring to what I bolded in your quote . Get some context please.

Someone said they had trouble fighting D/D elementalists they rely on melee. Right under that post xsorus says D/D elementalists aren’t hard to kill on his thief “Switch to venoms”

Why would a melee thief “switch to venoms” lol. You have to read the posts first before getting all excited and responding come on man. You gotta do better than that.

oZii.2864:

killimandros.5087:

lol you didnt know you can switch to venoms on the run? I suddenly understand why you dont want culling/stealth bug abuse to be fixed….you know, you switch BACK.
Down under, another pro-hero, who doesnt know how to swich abilities on the run. Well done sir, well done.

So sad this post is, but continue to show you lack of knowledge about a thief you and xsorus. Your caps indicate that your post was written quickly and you were excited to jump all over my response thats how I view it and its a good laugh.

I was being sarcastic but I’ll school you on something you could easily search before coming to save your friend who pretty much showed how deep his knowledge of a thief is or he didn’t read at all and replied quickly (hope its the latter)

1) You don’t need any trait to run venoms the cd reduction trait is 20 points into DA. Venoms are a utility.

2) If your running a burst thief build why would you run venoms? At best you would run devourer for the immobilize even still why would you take the cd reduction on 1 venom in a burst build? I am sure you don’t know so you don’t have to bother answering.

Not every thief is running P/D condition spec like xsorus is in his video. Sorry to disappoint you. I use to run it and pretty much know it inside and out. Most people aren’t even running venoms on P/D anyway to begin.

I also didn’t imply that you can’t beat a d/d ele 1v1 but you sure aren’t going to “switch to venom” running s/d and d/p thats you know dumb!

I play a condition based thief, i’m commenting on how you can kill a Ele with conditions via Venoms (hence why I run venom based talents)

If you’re a burst based thief, You can easily burst an ele down…. You of course don’t need Venoms for this.

That only spec I find that has real trouble with ele’s on a thief is Sword/Dagger… Just because it’s a little slower on the burst..I mean it can be done…But its much harder then D/D Burst builds or P/D Builds

Granted those are the only ones i’ve played, I imagine P/P wouldn’t do so great…though Dagger/Pistol might work.

Xsorus.2507:

The whole notion that Class Balance shouldn’t be a concern in a point based PvP system is also frankly the dumbest thing i’ve heard in my entire 15 years of MMO gaming.

Not everyone is playing World vs World for the point based system, As soon as you get that into that thick head of yours, the better off you will be.

I repeat, Not everyone cares what tier you are, Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players…Because all the hype around the best server went away last year.

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

I have already stated before that I know people play WvW how they want and I do the same. That doesn’t change the fact of what WvW is about does it? Not in the slightest.

I beg to differ about people not caring about WvW you think everyone thinks like you which is why your arguments don’t hold any weight. I am voicing my opinion but I know other people don’t feel the same as I do. I also am not diluted into thinking that most people playing WvW think its some free for all Call of Duty death match.

The first page of WvW has 27 topics on it

This thread has 325 replies right now.

There are 3 other threads with more replies on the first page than this one. The threads that usually have the most replies are the matchup threads. Tier 6, tier 4, tier 2 have the most views in it. BG, Kain, TC has over 1000 replies in it alone.

Please point me to a matchup thread that doesn’t have a score update in it or someone asking for a score update and I’ll concede that people don’t care about points in WvW or WvW itself.

This is not some big issue that you think it is cause most people and Anet get it. WvW is about points and server vs server not about your fantasy Deathmatch balance.

oZii.2864:

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

What are you talking about referring to what I bolded in your quote . Get some context please.

Someone said they had trouble fighting D/D elementalists they rely on melee. Right under that post xsorus says D/D elementalists aren’t hard to kill on his thief “Switch to venoms”

Why would a melee thief “switch to venoms” lol. You have to read the posts first before getting all excited and responding come on man. You gotta do better than that.

Venoms might work alright with Power builds, The main thing you want is the Immobilize though the Poison isn’t bad either (those are the two I use) I never really tried that setup though kitten D so I wouldn’t know if they’d work any better then anything else.

If I was going to run one though it’d be the Immobilize.

Though it won’t be nearly as powerful without condition duration.

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

The whole notion that Class Balance shouldn’t be a concern in a point based PvP system is also frankly the dumbest thing i’ve heard in my entire 15 years of MMO gaming.

Not everyone is playing World vs World for the point based system, As soon as you get that into that thick head of yours, the better off you will be.

I repeat, Not everyone cares what tier you are, Hell most don’t care frankly about the WvW system at all besides actually fighting other players…Because all the hype around the best server went away last year.

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

I have already stated before that I know people play WvW how they want and I do the same. That doesn’t change the fact of what WvW is about does it? Not in the slightest.

I beg to differ about people not caring about WvW you think everyone thinks like you which is why your arguments don’t hold any weight. I am voicing my opinion but I know other people don’t feel the same as I do. I also am not diluted into thinking that most people playing WvW think its some free for all Call of Duty death match.

The first page of WvW has 27 topics on it

This thread has 325 replies right now.

There are 3 other threads with more replies on the first page than this one. The threads that usually have the most replies are the matchup threads. Tier 6, tier 4, tier 2 have the most views in it. BG, Kain, TC has over 1000 replies in it alone.

This is not some big issue that you think it is cause most people and Anet get it. WvW is about points and server vs server not about your fantasy Deathmatch balance.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

Hell I’ll point out a Class Balance/Mechanic issue right now related to World vs World that was changed…

Guard from Rangers was nerfed this patch..Why? Because it had a Adverse effect it seems during World vs World.

The cap on Heals compared to AOE’s, that was changed based entirely on World vs World and affected multiple classes…

As for your silly statement of “Look at these threads talking about World vs World” Please son….None of them care about WvW….most of them are just kitten talking one another because that’s really the only thing you can do in World vs World that’s interesting.

Most of everyone knows why a team wins in World vs World….and it has zero to do with skill….and everything to do with population.

That’s why no one takes it seriously anymore.

and the fact you think class balance isn’t an issue because you think thats only important in Death Matches cracks me up..

rofl…

killimandros.5087:

I dont believe you were being sarcastic. I believe youve just read it or been explained it. Sorry. Shame the reading or explanation didnt fully explain how an ele works, and why venoms. Leaving you with a big 0 (nothing) look in your eyes from this post. Now, stealth and culling abuse. Thats what I was discussing. Btw, you dont need more than 1 stealth to take on an ele. Not even a bs from stealth one. Some videos show thiefs doing this with relative ease, and its not a d/d specc.
I highlight stuff when I know I have the tl;dr gang reading. Hence caps. You cant use more than caps 5 max 6 times anyway, as 7 words become meaningless to them. And if you watched the video, he uses his p/d about half of the fight. WHat does he use the rest of the fight?

Please post video of a good thief owning a good ele with ease by using just 1 stealth skill.

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Jang Gun

I am War Machine’s GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers’ guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, “if you play dirty, I will react the same way.” Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven’t been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don’t want to play dirty. We don’t want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

It’s because most of the big guild figured out long ago that WvW Matches themselves are decided entirely on population…..There is no skill involved…..Take X keep for the 20th time became mundane months ago..It’s why people have wrote off the game already… If it wasn’t f2p it would already be experiencing the massive population drops the previous MMO’s to come out have experienced…Though since its F2P its population drop is probably less pronounced then those games…

However because its f2p they’re not getting money in they hoped…..That’s why the development process has slowed to a crawl…It’s why things like Culling exist…or Bleed Caps..

oZii.2864:

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Jang Gun

I am War Machine’s GW2 lead officer Jang Gun.

I am deeply disillusioned about the current NA T1 match up.

People currently do all sorts of things to win: play the game in a wrong way, plant spies in the the other servers’ guild and/or commanders, pm spamming all kinds of abusive words and making cynical remarks.

I, even until just now, received a lot of those pm spamming from unspecified persons from SoS. Looking at these people who apologize and pretend to be gentle on the forums while using abusive words and lying from behind, I ask myself if there has been any enemy that have been uncivilized and low leveled as them in the past gaming experience.

On the other hand, I am very disappointed by Arena Net who have been neglecting WvW and focusing PvE more and developers who cannot react to such a small bug fast enough.

I can say for sure that during the past 5 months from August to December, War Machine and I have never played the game in a unintended or wrong way. Enemies who fly around with the orb, jump over the wall to break the altar, and laying dead for several hours to be resurrected to take the same keep over and over. While I look at these enemies who think them as tactics to be proud of, I ask myself if I am not thinking correctly.

Earlier today I was thinking, “if you play dirty, I will react the same way.” Then we jumped over the cliff of the garrison and took two of them pretty fast. Then I also thought WM should now focus on finding every possible bug and exploit that exist in the game like everyone else is doing then make fun of the enemies.

For the past hours I haven’t been in WvW and thought about a lot of things.
Then I came to a conclusion. We don’t want to play dirty. We don’t want to play with/like low leveled players and pretend to be the king on top proud of ourselves.

War Machine and I will leave this disgusting T1 match up and will be heading to Kaineng, where we occasionally trained. A place where we give away all the benefits and advantages and only focus on fighting skills. We will not be like some others who bandwagons to another strong server and pretend to be the kings. It will be a tough and long journey, but in order to help a bit in saving the dying WvW and lower tiers, we are leaving T1.

If you want to join the trip to hell come join.

P.S. We will miss SBI.

War Machine obviously left for that server because they thought the World vs World match would matter more boggle

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

Elementalist have received multiple nerfs, Hell some this patch.

So have Thieves…

I also pointed out Rangers received a Nerf this patch based entirely on World Vs World (Unless you think Guard was nerfed because of SPvP)

Xsorus.2507:

War Machine obviously left for that server because they thought the World vs World match would matter more boggle

Yea they obviously didn’t move just to find fights like killmandro suggested

Oh thats what you got from that post. I got that they moved cause they didn’t like the underhanded tactics being used in tier 1. Jang must have made a mistake in his post probably a typo.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

War Machine obviously left for that server because they thought the World vs World match would matter more boggle

Yea they obviously didn’t move just to find fights like killmandro suggested

Oh thats what you got from that post. I got that they moved cause they didn’t like the underhanded tactics being used in tier 1. Jang must have made a mistake in his post probably a typo.

He didn’t like people cheating… that’s why he moved.

He certainly didn’t move cause he thought the World vs World match would matter more.

you’re trying to do apples and oranges again.

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

Elementalist have received multiple nerfs, Hell some this patch.

So have Thieves…

I also pointed out Rangers received a Nerf this patch based entirely on World Vs World (Unless you think Guard was nerfed because of SPvP)

Yea I know sherlock thats why I said thieves haven’t been nerfed in 5 months. Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard.

Haven’t been nerfed hard does not equal never been nerfed lol.

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

All of this supports that you know WvW might actually balanced already which is why Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard and thieves havent been nerfed in 5 months.

Every class since launch has received Nerfs…I don’t know who you’re kidding..

rofl…

I don’t even know where the comprehension. From my statement of elementalists havent been nerfed hard and thieves haven’t been nerfed in about 5 months. You got that I think no classes have been nerfed ever. Rofl

Elementalist have received multiple nerfs, Hell some this patch.

So have Thieves…

I also pointed out Rangers received a Nerf this patch based entirely on World Vs World (Unless you think Guard was nerfed because of SPvP)

Yea I know sherlock thats why I said thieves haven’t been nerfed in 5 months. Elementalists haven’t been nerfed hard.

Haven’t been nerfed hard does not equal never been nerfed lol.

Elementalist received a fairly hefty nerf this patch.

It’s not the AOE changes (i’m willing to bet that’s coming next patch)
But it’s fairly major.

Thieves has received some nerfs, usually designed around slowing their burst down.

not that it has any major effect on the class.

I think Guardians and Engineer’s have taken more nerfs to be honest.

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

Xsorus.2507:

you’re trying to do apples and oranges again.

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

my reply

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Your not reading again

Barney style: Killmandro says the large/best known guilds transfer for those fights.

I respond with an example of War Machine transferring to Kaineng not because they are looking for fights.

Looks like apples and apples to me.

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

you’re trying to do apples and oranges again.

killimandros.5087:

interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…

my reply

Yea War Machine totally transferred to Kaineng to go meet up in WvW just to find fights.

Your not reading again

Barney style: Killmandro says the large/best known guilds transfer for those fights.

I respond with an example of War Machine transferring to Kaineng not because they are looking for fights.

Looks like apples and apples to me.

They found a fight fairly quickly…as they were murdering their way up through the ranks.

however the reason they left SBI had zero to do with World vs World matches, Nor with finding a fight..

They left cause they didn’t like the cheating that was happening.

You basically found a guild that left based on neither of the examples you guys used.
and tried to play it off like they left that server because they were looking for a better Match. When I called you out on that, you’re now trying to claim you were only offering an example as to why big guild leave servers.

You being wrong along with him doesn’t make your argument better..It just means you were both wrong on that one example.

Apples and Oranges my friend..Apples and Oranges.

edit though having re-read his post, I’m not even going to say he was wrong now..

Since he said the following

“interesting, as most of the bigger and considered best guilds run wvw mostly for the fights, not the scenarios. They even transfer servers to find those fights…”

Most implies some…It doesn’t imply all.

So i’m afraid the only one wrong in this case was you..Better luck next time.

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

Yeap, I missed CnD multiple times… and used teleport (since I think my stealth’s were down)

Backstab builds it depends… if it’s a 1v1..You won’t win..I’ll kill you and move along, However if you jump me while i’m fighting a large group of people..I’m pretty much screwed (along with most people)..

If you were D/P though you’d crap on me..that build eats P/D builds up very easily.

Xsorus.2507:

They found a fight fairly quickly…as they were murdering their way up through the ranks.

however the reason they left SBI had zero to do with World vs World matches

They left cause they didn’t like the cheating that was happening.

Huh?!? Don’t those contradict each other?

They must have left cause they didn’t like people cheating and skipping mobs in CoF? People using orbs of power in Twilight Arbor? Spying during dungeon runs? This is unprecedented news those crazy PvE players!!!

They didn’t leave SBI cause of cheating in World vs World matches according to you. Yea totally seperate.

This is hilarious lol continue please

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

Xsorus.2507:

Sifu.6527:

This thread is basically 3 people talking to each other…

kittening back and forwth without really suggesting anything.

For me, I personally feel that stealth is a problem but it only needs minor tweaking.

Mesmer –
Veil – Only affect 5 players max (inline with thief’s SF)
Mass stealth – No change since this is an elite.

Thief –
Infusion of shadow – Reduce to 1 init regen instead of 2
Infitrator Signat – Init regen remove and replace
Quick recovery – Remove and replace
Patience – Remove and replace
Quick Pockets – Remove and replace
Hastened Replenishment – Remove and replace
Kleptomaniac – Remove and replace

How will these changes affect thieves gameplay in general?

Burst D/D – No change. They will still kill and be killed as fast as before.

Balance BS D/D – Slight nerf to init regen but not much. They can still CnD and restealth but you will see fewer of those.

S/D – Slight nerf in init regen. They can’t spam infil strike like before. More careful timing of skill use.

P/D – Med nerf to init regen thus toning down the amount of sneak attack.

D/P – Stealth via combo field with almost instant init regen got to go. This build will feel the nurf bat. This will end infinite stealth build.

What do you guys think?

I don’t use any init regens or talents that give init in my build or in that video.

You want to fix Stealth, you have to go to the source of the problem…CND..

Though i think you’re probably right about D/P though with the infinite stealth..If that wasn’t addressed you’d probably end up with most Stealthers switching to that build.

During the fight on the build, they had a good chance to kill you when you missed 2 CnD. Too bad they didn’t know what they were doing and 1 or 2 were uplevel.

Sorry but if I saw you in WvW with that build of yours, you will either die in 10 sec or will be running for the hills.

D/P is too cheesy for me and I’m Back Stab build…

Yeap, I missed CnD multiple times… and used teleport (since I think my stealth’s were down)

Backstab builds it depends… if it’s a 1v1..You won’t win..I’ll kill you and move along, However if you jump me while i’m fighting a large group of people..I’m pretty much screwed (along with most people)..

If you were D/P though you’d crap on me..that build eats P/D builds up very easily.

I’m D/D S/D.

Want to duel? If I win, you pay me the gem I paid to get there and pay me gems to get back to my server. If you win, I’ll give you 25 gold.

oZii.2864:

Xsorus.2507:

They found a fight fairly quickly…as they were murdering their way up through the ranks.

however the reason they left SBI had zero to do with World vs World matches

They left cause they didn’t like the cheating that was happening.

Huh?!? Don’t those contradict each other?

They must have left cause they didn’t like people cheating and skipping mobs in CoF? People using orbs of power in Twilight Arbor? Spying during dungeon runs? This is unprecedented news those crazy PvE players!!!

They didn’t leave SBI cause of cheating in World vs World matches according to you. Yea totally seperate.

This is hilarious lol continue please

That didn’t like the cheating like i said, They didn’t transfer cause they though the World vs World matches would matter more.

They left cause the cheating was rampant and there was no point in playing on that tier.

Why you’re trying to bring cheating in PVE into a PvP topic i don’t know…This is looking like one of those applies and oranges things again you like to bring up.

people were cheating in PvP, it had nothing to do with World vs World..Why you’re trying to compare the two i don’t know..