Guild Wars 2

BATMAN.6794:

My problem is sure smaller forces can defend better now with the way keeps/towers are setup, but if its so laggy due to map capacity being so large and every1 blobbing, then really those defenses arent going to help. They need to fix populations and then these changes might actually be noticable. If maps held only 60 people instead of the 100 it can now, it would make it so tiers 3, 4, 5, and maybe 6 actually be playable and balanced.

They not not only to fix populations, but also the Game performance of the general Game must be improved finalyl to help players with bottlenecked systems to get the best performance of this game, that they can get.

GW2 needs finally a 64bit client and at least DX11 Support, so that PCs of today don#t get performance slowdowns from this ancient old DX9 anymore that isn’t able to deliver best game performance together with a crappy 32bit client, that lets not make PCs from today use all of their memory power ect.

What helps it, if you have 8 cores in your PC, that could work for your game, if the current client lets you have of your powerhorse only like a small piece of its maximum performance, when you know, that with maximum performance, the game would run alot smoother for you, when you simply can’t have internet Problems causing the Lags (which one with 50mb/s shouldn’t have)
So if it still lags, then just only because of the PC not beign able to handle too many moving players at the same time, which is a performance thing, that would work better, if there would be a 64bit client and DX11 Support for which most if not all GW2 players today should have good enough PCs/Laptops ect. that support DX11 to not worry any compability issues once ANet should roll out that performance improvement and the 64bit thing is just downloading and installing a new client over the 32bit version…)

A 64bit client for a 64bit PC is just an absolute must.
playing GW2 on such a pc with a 32bit client is like driving a Ferrari with a casual car motor inside and not with a ferrari sports car motor that should be better inside of it for the best performance …

Sure, player population itself is also a problem, but it is better first to solve the technological problems of WvW performance, that are in the hands of Anet, rather than working on overhasted server based solutions to change somethign on the player populution, like the often wished Server Merges or anything similar, which is just in my opinion a short sighted solution, because players can quit at any time and thus this means a server merge is only a kind of temporary solution… somewhen sooner or later that problem will return maybe …

Going for solutions that improve the general game performance is imo the safer long term better route for the game.

SkyShroud.2865:

Sorel.4870:

SkyShroud.2865:

From the preview, it is great to know that tower finally has more strategic meanings.
But, the new tower and keep design seems to favour defender extremely. I fear that the unbalanced WvW population will undermine the fun aspect of the map.

That can also be a good thing. In a very unbalanced matchup, you could probably let go of your side objectives, and just hold on to your keep and one last tower, and the choke points could make it easier to defend with less people.

If you lost the keep then, how are you gonna get it back? :O

From how I read it, only certain worlds will get “home field advantages” from the shrines, so the Fire Shrines will only work for the red world, and so on. If so, then smaller WvW squads may still be able to take shrines and towers and perhaps use the 3-Hour center event to even things out. Essentially, it looks like it’ll have a lot of potential for comebacks.

People not liking the map should stop commenting as “the whole community”. The number one complaint i’ve seen in WvW has been about blobs. ANet is trying to give us exactly that.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

I sometimes think the people who say every change anet is doing to wvw is “pve” have never really played pve or just love making strawman arguments like children. WvW seems to have become this idea that it is ONLY supposed to be open-world pvp but, as far as I remember it, it was always marketed as a balance between pve and pvp. Anet’s plan may just be to try to entice more people into the game mode since it is insanely boring right now unless you are in a guild.
And I love how eotm is constantly bashed when I can legitimately say that the first 2 weeks of that map’s release were the funnest wvw I’ve ever done and I’ve played since beta . The fact that the points never truly mattered is what started killing the game mode and the death knell came when pve’s discovered the karma loot and started abusing it.
inb4 “muh server pride” warriors come in with more fallacies

+1
I agree 100% on this.
The old system might please the small community of GvG headbashers and guild raids, but its not really fun for the majority of the players, which are pve’ers.
And come on people, dont always be so negative about everything they introduce to make it a better experience! I think the new map looks amazing and extremely fun! The only thing I worry about is that middle event. Hope it wont ned like Stonemist castle 3some fights with tons of lag.

McMarc.1276:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

I sometimes think the people who say every change anet is doing to wvw is “pve” have never really played pve or just love making strawman arguments like children. WvW seems to have become this idea that it is ONLY supposed to be open-world pvp but, as far as I remember it, it was always marketed as a balance between pve and pvp. Anet’s plan may just be to try to entice more people into the game mode since it is insanely boring right now unless you are in a guild.
And I love how eotm is constantly bashed when I can legitimately say that the first 2 weeks of that map’s release were the funnest wvw I’ve ever done and I’ve played since beta . The fact that the points never truly mattered is what started killing the game mode and the death knell came when pve’s discovered the karma loot and started abusing it.
inb4 “muh server pride” warriors come in with more fallacies

+1
I agree 100% on this.
The old system might please the small community of GvG headbashers and guild raids, but its not really fun for the majority of the players, which are pve’ers.
And come on people, dont always be so negative about everything they introduce to make it a better experience! I think the new map looks amazing and extremely fun! The only thing I worry about is that middle event. Hope it wont ned like Stonemist castle 3some fights with tons of lag.

-1

The majority of players which are pve’ers? Thats the most uneducated and ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

Its as if you don’t play WvW at all. Man im really really glad you arn’t a dev because youd make WvW a horrible thing lol. PVE’ers have no combat skill whatsoever and are completely useless for WvW which is why they stay away from it. Nearly everyone I know who play WvW only do it or sPvP. By no means is WvW a PVE playground. Which is why people are getting upset that its being turned into one with so many mobs and what not.

Junkpile.7439:

Doesn’t really matter if couple hundred players hate map. Most of players don’t even want your lame blob guilds in same map.

Most of WvW is blobs and guilds running around. You’re the minority.

rainisword.7860:

No need to elaborate. You just proved your severe ignorance if you can’t tell the difference between a pug blob and an organized raid.

TLDR: I don’t know how it messes up WvW for me so i can’t explain it.

Nice job sir. I totally agree with you now. Calling me ignorant over and over again doesn’t strengthen your argument in the slightest, In fact it makes it weaker because you’re assuming everyone who doesn’t partake in your guild zerging is ignorant.

rainisword.7860:

Most of WvW is blobs and guilds running around. You’re the minority.

Most of WvW is blobs. Which consists usually of players from different guilds. Why do they blob you might ask, Maybe it’s because them zergy guild groups who can’t function without perma stability.

Blobs are the majority. Guild blobs are not. I know they’re both low skillcap but they’re not the same. I guess you’ve never participated in one like the cool kids, Lol.

The new Borderland looks a bit too gimmicky for my taste, for the sake of it aswell.

Whilst it looks new and shiny, they should play it a bit more safely and conventional, we don’t want too many elements like Skyhammer or EoTM, some open field without Choke points, NPCs or any hazards would be nice.

It does look very nice.. And I am not bothered my the “PvE element”.

I do hope they haven’t gone too overboard of the terrain though. I know the current maps can be boring, and I know people wanted something more interesting, but to be honest the most important thing about PvP in any game is any mode is that one side doesn’t have an overwhelming advantage. If the map is too complex it becomes very difficult for groups of any size to move around because they can be easily blocked with no realistic hope of getting though.

That’s largely why I think roaming in EotM never took off. I know it’s funny and “tactical” to knock people off the edge, but ultimately it’s not a very satisfying win. Most people roam for the fun of some good fights, and running around with a LB or Hammer and knocking people off isn’t a good fight. Just look at Skyhammer.. noone liked that kitten because it had nothing really to do with fighting, just knocking people off and spamming an un-blockable un-evadable cannon. That’s not PvP and it’s not actually what people want in the long run.

Still, I am cautiously excited

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

The new Borderland looks a bit too gimmicky for my taste, for the sake of it aswell.

Whilst it looks new and shiny, they should play it a bit more safely and conventional, we don’t want too many elements like Skyhammer or EoTM, some open field without Choke points, NPCs or any hazards would be nice.

Safe and conventional leads to nothing being done. Experimentalism gets us to the core of what works and what doesn’t quickly. Kinda like smart phones: How will we know what we want until it’s given to us? If we hate it when it comes out, ANet learns what we hate, but us telling ANet what we hate could just be our own ignorances of ourselves[humans are very stupid that way. Even the smart ones.]. We might think we like blue without seeing green, then we see green and we find out it makes blue look like a trash color.

Plus, many of the things added were things people said they wanted in many threads in this forum. I personally don’t visit this forum often, but I’d personally like a bit more dynamic WvW than the apparent bland stuff you’re suggesting[No mechanics, no chokepoints, no hazards]. Where’s the strategy in having two masses of people line up and throw each other at each other? It’s more interesting to find out who can use the environment better, to have tactics>mindlessness, don’t you think?

On your note, however, ANet does not seem to be excluding open-field fighting, but it just doesn’t seem to be the only way about, meaning zergs will just have to avoid chokepoints, watch where they step, and be smarter about how they do things. And that’s more strategy, choosing your battlefields and all that to your advantage.

I’m looking forward to this, really. Might give smaller groups and even soloists greater roles in the whole of things.

Cufufalating.8479:

It does look very nice.. And I am not bothered my the “PvE element”.

I do hope they haven’t gone too overboard of the terrain though. I know the current maps can be boring, and I know people wanted something more interesting, but to be honest the most important thing about PvP in any game is any mode is that one side doesn’t have an overwhelming advantage. If the map is too complex it becomes very difficult for groups of any size to move around because they can be easily blocked with no realistic hope of getting though.

That’s largely why I think roaming in EotM never took off. I know it’s funny and “tactical” to knock people off the edge, but ultimately it’s not a very satisfying win. Most people roam for the fun of some good fights, and running around with a LB or Hammer and knocking people off isn’t a good fight. Just look at Skyhammer.. noone liked that kitten because it had nothing really to do with fighting, just knocking people off and spamming an un-blockable un-evadable cannon. That’s not PvP and it’s not actually what people want in the long run.

Still, I am cautiously excited

Looks like there’ll at least be ground under the fall so we can be ressed by passing groups[and only seems like a single area has that type of uber-high terrain], so it shouldn’t be as kittenkyhammer or EotM.

Oh, another thing that’s different from Skyhammer in this map is that the weapon apparently doesn’t target players, only the outer gates of the keeps/towers thus giving the world who got it an advantage but not control of the whole map.

The base lords don’t need to have many mechanics.
They just need to keep the enemy Zerg busy for when player reinforcements arrive.
To do that they need to scale with the enemy zerg, so they won’t fall in less that 30 seconds, but at the same time, they don’t need to do to much special skills, as the enemy players will be fighting other players at the same time.

Besides that, I’m ALL IN for mechanics. The game must be getting harder the further you push into enemy territory, so the matches wouldn’t be one sided. Having a few traps that would benefit more the faction they are closser to is a nice way to do that.

Bases with strategic advantages such as specific mechanics could present some strategic decisions to be made.

Watching it now and thinking, WTH were they thinking? This is what happens when the Dev’s do not get their butt’s on a map and actually play WvW. Hint to the Dev’s, WvW is about “us vs them”. WvW is not about “us vs Dev” or “us vs environment”. <sigh> I really do not know what they were thinking.

For the map esthetics, god is it an ugly looking map.

DeWolfe.2174:

Watching it now and thinking, WTH were they thinking? This is what happens when the Dev’s do not get their butt’s on a map and actually play WvW. Hint to the Dev’s, WvW is about “us vs them”. WvW is not about “us vs Dev” or “us vs environment”. <sigh> I really do not know what they were thinking.

For the map esthetics, god is it an ugly looking map.

This is actually a good point. I wonder the same. I have devs on my friendlist who are “WvW” devs and I never see them in WvW, ever. Im on almost all the time on NA primetime and they are in HotM or doing sPvP.

I think devon and jessica are on NSP. Which interests me because T3 right now highlights the biggest and most longstanding problem in WvW, population. For those who don’t know, T3 has been an endless hell for NSP and another server of choice. Its basically been getting one of the 4 t2 servers every week, ticking 50 ppt on average, and running into a border being spawn camped because the enemy is so starved for fights.

Wow, WvW is toxic…

Anyway, another thing I’d like to note in support of this map: Defenders in war[and other things] usually have what’s called the “Home Field Advantage”, so the fact that the battle is skewed a bit to be advantageous to the defending world is likely intended to help replicate certain aspects of real war, but in a more dense and dynamic fashion.

It’s because they almost never listen to what people say, even through constructive means.They usually bring in changes from out of nowhere, which of course some of you will sympathize with. Like while I enjoy Nintendo Consoles and IPs, being different hasn’t always brought success for them.

Too much Terrain and Enviromental hazards isn’t a good thing, it’s just trying to experiment with a formula that may be stale but it works well as it is, despite population/coverage imbalance.

They don’t need to try too hard, to make the wvw experience fresh and to keep it more accessible, experimenting with EoTM is fine, but the Borderlands?

We shouldn’t be beta testing this stuff.

This basically:

That’s largely why I think roaming in EotM never took off. I know it’s funny and “tactical” to knock people off the edge, but ultimately it’s not a very satisfying win. Most people roam for the fun of some good fights, and running around with a LB or Hammer and knocking people off isn’t a good fight. Just look at Skyhammer.. noone liked that kitten because it had nothing really to do with fighting, just knocking people off and spamming an un-blockable un-evadable cannon. That’s not PvP and it’s not actually what people want in the long run.

@rainisword:
We get it. You’re the hero and successful in the current setup. This is why you are afraid of any change. Because you might need to adapt. The posts of you, which I read, consist all pretty much on baseless WvW elitist ideology.

Many problems being caused in WvW are not by design. They are caused by players like you, who think they are better than PvE players, more skilled and over all the best there is. This arrogance blinds you (btw I am almost exclusively a WvW player, so no, I don’t try to defend someone here).

I for once are very excited about the new map. I see lots of potential. If you are really good, you will adapt to the new environment. If you can not adapt, then you are probably just an opportunist, who does well with the status quo and can’t handle change… probably…

BTW: Most of the GW2 players are PvEers. WvW is the minority. So be glad, they even thought of that game mode

este.8651:

This needs to be play tested by over 200 person battles before the features are finalized. WvW is an entirely different game when you have more than a few dozen which is what it looks like they designed the map with.

I’m excited about the new map, can’t wait to see how it plays out. That said, I couldn’t avoid a few prickles of concern; the dev expectations of how things will play out seem reasonable for 20v20 battles but not for 40+ zergs. They sounded out of touch.

And I’ve yet to understand how any of this will ‘break up zergs’; its not like they’ve implemented player collisions. Certainly the stab changes will make zergs less safe, but smaller groups will be even more at risk.

I guess we’ll see….

Dondagora.9645:

Wow, WvW is toxic…

Anyway, another thing I’d like to note in support of this map: Defenders in war[and other things] usually have what’s called the “Home Field Advantage”, so the fact that the battle is skewed a bit to be advantageous to the defending world is likely intended to help replicate certain aspects of real war, but in a more dense and dynamic fashion.

I think so too. Looking at the current WvW objective design, it shows, that the devs didn’t have a real idea about how fights would work in WvW. I mean, if I was to design a tower for the Mists and actually had experiences of WvW battles, I would totally change up the design and prevent defenders from being sitting ducks for zerg bombing.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

It’s because they almost never listen to what people say and those who think otherwise will say, those opinions are narrow minded. They usually bring in changes from out of nowhere, which of course some of you will sympathize with.

I still don’t think too Terrain and Enviromental hazards is a good thing, bringing too much variation isn’t always good a good thing, experimenting with EoTM is fine, but the Borderlands? We shouldn’t be beta testing this stuff.

The changes aren’t really out of nowhere, but from posts which you and maybe others, who believe chokepoints/asymmetric terrain and greater importance of smaller objectives were purely ANet’s ideas, didn’t read, or disagreed with. Your opinions are valid, of course, but please attempt not to invalidate others’ opinions which differ from your own. ANet, as I see it, are trying to evolve zergs into smarter zergs. It also seems they dislike open-field battles, but are still allowing them in EB.

I also believe this stuff was beta tested. It seems they’re taking ideas from the Alpines map and the EotM map, getting rid of what was criticized[such as the symmetrical and bland terrain of Alpines along with the overly punishing auto-death falls of EotM] and using the feedback from the community to design this new map[asymmetrical, greater objective importance, tactical terrain and buffs, punishing but not irrecoverable drops or traps]. As such, we’ve already acted as beta testers for this map already via two extremely different maps[thus letting them, how you might say, find the intersection of our likes and dislikes between the two], but implementing it in game will show the results of our feedback. Thus, we can’t know whether this will be taken positively or negatively by the community until it is released, even while people complain and QQ thinking they know what they want before release.

Or, at least, that’s what I’ve seen and thought.

Dose not seem that bad most of the def buffs are build into the map not blunt + to how powerful the players are and at the same time the attker boons from the new effect will not last forever.

What i need to point out is what killed EotM for a lot of ppl was not falling to there death it was falling off the map and being WP back to the start. It made every death very painful for groups becuse you would lose ppl. The new map or the new BLs looks like you fall off into something so yes you may die but some one can still rez you.

Any way NPC need to be some what strong to have a real part in a fight so the PvE should be in the WvW setting from a ppt point of view. As for “fights only” there looks like there going to be a good bit of open ground to fight in i think ppl will find there nich to gvg if os is full.

There is nothing fun about getting knocked off a cliff and insta dying……ever

Kinda looks like Cabal Online nation war map in a way, but not really. I don’t know, but I kinda feel that vibe of it, although it doesn’t really look like it. Oh well… hope it’s not the new EOTM, that would blow.

To be honest all I wanted for WvW were bug/exploit fixes to existing maps/siege and some balancing done to various things.

Seeing that current borderland map will bulldozed with something what reminds me about many things I dislike in EOTM was quite disappointing.

I really was expecting that this map would be optional instead of mandatory and that Anet would actually had fixed some old issues also.

really pretty map looks really interesting but I get some of the concerns being voiced here about maybe relying on gimmicks a bit much. Human nature is such that it is hard to trust other players to have the most fun with they’ve been given without kittening something up. Some of you tho need to ease up on the sour grapes a bit & have a Cucumber Collins. It might surprise you & end up as entertaining as it looks.

My main worry is all about the “rotation” part of this concoction, more choices would be better, too bad they don’t have 3 different borderland maps ready to go now with alpine, desert & jungle. And then of course I have to wonder about how much extra lag all the pretty gimmicky stuff brings us.

In the end it just seems like they tried to make a map to get “more people” into wvw. A map for those who don’t like the current BL map and it style of game play. At the same time they force this map on the ones who do play in Alpine BL nightly and enjoy it.

I still think my comparison of Spvp losing Khylo in order to get Stronghold was accurate.
If you dont really enjoy WvW and want this new map I completely understand, it will definitely change things up, but at the cost of a play mode many of us have been enjoying since launch and play everyday. The cost is to high.

Ballads.2509:

In the end it just seems like they tried to make a map to get “more people” into wvw. A map for those who don’t like the current BL map and it style of game play. At the same time they force this map on the ones who do play in Alpine BL nightly and enjoy it.

I still think my comparison of Spvp losing Khylo in order to get Stronghold was accurate.
If you dont really enjoy WvW and want this new map I completely understand, it will definitely change things up, but at the cost of a play mode many of us have been enjoying since launch and play everyday. The cost is to high.

I agree a lot with this comment and I kinda feel like Anet is selling out by doing it. I mean making 3 out of the 4 borders be EOTM like and cater a lot more to PVE players? This sounds very fishy. I’ll give the map a shot because it does look pretty but if it ends up being too gimmicky and taking away from what WvW has been these last 2.5 years, then I’ll change my mind.

Lordrosicky.5813:

There is nothing fun about getting knocked off a cliff and insta dying……ever

^

Nokaru.7831:

A non-player character being associated with an objective does not make it PvE. In most PvP game modes, they aren’t all death-match. In fact, death-match is usually the least entertaining. Counter Strike has the bomb to arm or disarm; DoTA has creeps and towers; but these games are undeniably PvP games.

For example: There are complaints about the oasis event. “OMG YOU KILL DINOSAURS AND TURN IT IN!” It sounds like the creatures that carry these objectives are simply there for the initial spawn of the power cores. Players have to risk carrying it and bring it to the objectives themselves, which is just like what you do with a flag in capture the flag – or the Orb of Power we once had in WvW.

Of course, if there are no enemies to fight, then yes it will just be a boring PvE event. However, if there’s no one to fight, then no lack of PvE events will turn an empty map into a thriving PvP one.

This exactly. I understand some of the sentiments of the detractors of this new map; group fights in WvW are a ton of fun, and if I believed that this new map would undermine them, I would be upset too.

But adding more varied environments, npcs, and objectives to the map does not change the fact that at its core, it’s still a PvP map. Winning will still require fighting, period. The new npcs won’t be running out of the towers and keeps to try and take the other objectives, or to try and complete the new temple event in the center. They won’t be laying down and operating siege weaponry. They won’t strategize over teamspeak to try and direct the flow of havoc squads and larger groups. Only players will do those things.

All the new objectives and environments do are increase the number of viable map strategies, which is irrefutably a good thing. More map strategies = a greater number of viable meta builds and team compositions, and a playerbase that feels energized again and excited to experiment and push boundaries. Tired of the GWEN raiding meta? Now your choke-killer and heavy cc builds have a chance to compete. Not tired of the GWEN meta? From the video it’s obvious that there’s still plenty of potential for hard-hitting large groups.

Please understand; games like DoTA and CS, and even real-life sports games like American football and basketball are more fun BECAUSE of the objectives and the variety of possible strategies they generate. Creating a map like this has the potential to bring a huge influx of new players into WvW, as well as bring back a lot of old players. It’s a lifeline the game mode desperately needs.

No one is trying to kill fights; at the end of the day those are the bread and butter of any combat-based PvP game. But at least allow ANet to try and give the fights a little more flavor. Game modes like this don’t die because there are more objectives and environments. They die because they get stale and boring and the playerbase moves on to other games, and then there’s no one left for you to fight anyway.

So…

Personally I think the map looks great and the new mechanics are just a challenge to overcome, master, then use to ones advantage. I have run a small scale “Havoc” guild for some time and this map looks like gravy for us.

The problem I foresee is the inevitable change to the existing Meta.

Out of this map a new breed of WVW players and Commanders will emerge and the old guard will have to adapt or be left behind.

i don’t care about the new map, if ppl will like it ppl will play it. my main concern is that if ppl don’t like it they HAVE TO play it cause they’ll remove the old borders. that’s just awful.

Donari.5237:

And in the closing video, 34 minutes in to the whole thing, it looks like a … cow? … gets trebucheted at a wall.

Yes? The trebuchets have been able to shoot special cows picked for their aerodynamical properties for a long time now. One of the few good things the Charr has done.

I think it looks awesome quite frankly. WvW since the beginning has literally just been mindless zerging and a numbers game where you just run around the map capping things then uncapping and repeating that. The new stuff looks like it will actually make zergs think*gasp* such a foreign concept I know instead of just blobbing. You will actually be able to pull of ambushes with things like the no fall damage or stealth from the sand storm etc. I think the map is going to open up massive amounts of opportunities that simply weren’t possible with the old maps. I’m sorry the zergs will actually have toy switch their brains on at times.

SirWarriant.2319:

I think it looks awesome quite frankly. WvW since the beginning has literally just been mindless zerging and a numbers game where you just run around the map capping things then uncapping and repeating that. The new stuff looks like it will actually make zergs think*gasp* such a foreign concept I know instead of just blobbing. You will actually be able to pull of ambushes with things like the no fall damage or stealth from the sand storm etc. I think the map is going to open up massive amounts of opportunities that simply weren’t possible with the old maps. I’m sorry the zergs will actually have toy switch their brains on at times.

Don’t be silly ;-)

Everything that is good for the “small guy” is even better for the “big guy”. There is
no way to nerf the zerg (we can’t even define what a zerg is….).

But lets talk again when the zerg built a dozen shield generators in open field to make short work of your havoc team (or whatever) or when he, because he can, controls all shrines and your small group is getting even more disadvantaged.

Regarding the Oasis event: while in prime-time it will be a funny event but outside of prime time outnumbered defender will be getting rekt big time.

The only reason you would ever be able to play mindlessly and not think is if your enemies are letting you do that. I’m not surprised to see a YB liking a map that’s designed to make hiding behind walls and never fighting as easy as possible.

Coldtart.4785:

The only reason you would ever be able to play mindlessly and not think is if your enemies are letting you do that. I’m not surprised to see a YB liking a map that’s designed to make hiding behind walls and never fighting as easy as possible.

The oasis event seems to contradict this.

Aezyr.5304:

Don’t be silly ;-)

Everything that is good for the “small guy” is even better for the “big guy”. There is
no way to nerf the zerg (we can’t even define what a zerg is….).

But lets talk again when the zerg built a dozen shield generators in open field to make short work of your havoc team (or whatever) or when he, because he can, controls all shrines and your small group is getting even more disadvantaged.

Well if we define a zerg as most players from one server running together they won’t be able to control all shrines.
According to the stream shrines are soloable so if one server doesn’t split up they will be left with the minority of them depending on the distances between the shrines.

It doesn’t solve the problems that come with population imbalance but it makes splitting up and roamers more important.

While I’m not super excited about the new map, I’m still looking forward to something new to try out.
Since they are replacing the old map with it, I just hope I like it. Anet say they will put the old map back into a rotation later, but when Anet say they will do something later, there’s a very good chance it will never happen.

In Short: Dislike

Feels like more PvE added to WvW. I don’t go into WvW for timed PvE event, for jumping puzzles, whatnot. I go there for large scale, open field battles. Not for more ridiculous choke points and EOTM like features. EOTM is already the world’s most boring thing, pretty please don’t bring more of it to WvW. This might finish the extinction of WvW in this form.

Please don’t permanently replace all borderlands. Maybe randomly add this one instead of one borderland at most so those of us who don;t like PvE still have a map to play on.

I need a hand there…

• People are complaining about “PvE” content (aka Lords)… But don’t the objectives already have Lords? So why do people complain?
• People complain about heights… But won’t those heights add more tactics to the game? After all, you fall, you die, you get rezzed. In EotM (since it’s the comparison), you fall, you got wp back to the start… So it’s not similar at all.
• People complain about killing dinosaurs to have access to “supplies” that would allow the use of a powerful weapon (that could help tiny servers)… Isn’t it an enhanced version of… Supply camps?
• People complain about not being able to zerg anymore because they need to pay attention to the environment… Wait, don’t they usually complain about facing zergs?
• People complain about shrines that give bonuses… Yet they loved the BloodLust that was added.
• People complain about towers being used as frontline defenses (if the zerg doesn’t want to walk for too long)… Yet now they complain about “oh no they took garrison and nobody saw them in the spawn towers/keeps”.

Face it people, what change with the new borderlands? Pretty much nothing.

• You still have a NPC that will be in each objective.
• You still have bonuses from keeping some places (ruins = shrines)
• You still have to defend your home world against invaders.

The changes:

• The zerg meta reign might come to an end (because, you know, you complain about it all the time)
• You have to think to win, not mindlessly spam 1 within a huge group to win against less populated places. Things can be flipped. Number isn’t power anymore.

Your QQ is just for the sake of complaining. Our WvW experience won’t be changed, it will be improved.

I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt. As long as it doesn’t turn into a champbag karma train like EOTM, I have to say it looks promising.

I’m more interested in playing as a havoc squad in WvW. I’ve always enjoyed some strategy in my combat. I love going behind enemy lines and causing mayhem. Having objectives which can change the tide of battle…well, that interests me. All we need are a few open fields for good fights, and I’ll be content.

I’ll admit – it’s a little silly when a well coordinated havoc team can flip a keep, just because no one is looking. After leaving my small server (I will miss them) something does need to be done to compensate population imbalance. If more difficult keep lords are the answer, well then…I’ll take it. It’s more about the fight than the loot.

As long as havoc doesn’t die out, I think I can adapt to the changes.

So Eotm 2.0… I still want to wait and test it. Now what about new Mastery’s for wvw? What about ability to have precursor from wvw? Seriously where are awards for us?
Are we still gonna have 10k bullshi* ranks of nothing?

The real real reason EOTM ended up as garbage is it resets every 3 hours so there is no benefit to holding and upgrading. As long as it is beneficial to hold it we will be ok.

rainisword.7860:

McMarc.1276:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

I sometimes think the people who say every change anet is doing to wvw is “pve” have never really played pve or just love making strawman arguments like children. WvW seems to have become this idea that it is ONLY supposed to be open-world pvp but, as far as I remember it, it was always marketed as a balance between pve and pvp. Anet’s plan may just be to try to entice more people into the game mode since it is insanely boring right now unless you are in a guild.
And I love how eotm is constantly bashed when I can legitimately say that the first 2 weeks of that map’s release were the funnest wvw I’ve ever done and I’ve played since beta . The fact that the points never truly mattered is what started killing the game mode and the death knell came when pve’s discovered the karma loot and started abusing it.
inb4 “muh server pride” warriors come in with more fallacies

+1
I agree 100% on this.
The old system might please the small community of GvG headbashers and guild raids, but its not really fun for the majority of the players, which are pve’ers.
And come on people, dont always be so negative about everything they introduce to make it a better experience! I think the new map looks amazing and extremely fun! The only thing I worry about is that middle event. Hope it wont ned like Stonemist castle 3some fights with tons of lag.

-1

The majority of players which are pve’ers? Thats the most uneducated and ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

Its as if you don’t play WvW at all. Man im really really glad you arn’t a dev because youd make WvW a horrible thing lol. PVE’ers have no combat skill whatsoever and are completely useless for WvW which is why they stay away from it. Nearly everyone I know who play WvW only do it or sPvP. By no means is WvW a PVE playground. Which is why people are getting upset that its being turned into one with so many mobs and what not.

complete bullkitten.
You know that people you know =/= the majority of people right?
But however, you’re a good example for toxic people in wvw. “Pve people have no combat skill” yeah thats easy to say right? staying away from wvw because of mega blobbing and all that boring stuff is more likely, but I wont try to discuss this with you, since there wont be any solution.

Come on. Is anyone really surprised we get EotM 2.0???

If you’ve been following these forums for any length of time you would have seen posts from DC talking about the success of EotM. About how forums posters don’t reflect the community as a whole etc.

Then come to understand concepts like ‘group think’ mentality and ‘office politics’.

It’s far easier to continue on with your ‘success’ than to admit to your failures.

An EotM players, a Karma chaser that steps out into a Border Map is like a sheep among Wolves. We can spot him a mile away with his banner boons and his MF food dripping from his lips, he is nothing more then a walking lootbag for us, a person that got lost in the mist and wandered in thro the wrong portal…

These are apperantly the players Anet listen to when they create a new WvW map, one wonder when Anet desided to kill this concept of WvW ? before launch or right after when they saw “kitten this is takeing players away from our precious sPvP”.

Creating WvW content based on the opinon of a EotM-player is as stupid as designing a Fractal based on input from me (fractal lvl 1 btw)., nah most serious WvW players have long since left gw2 and the few of us remaining wanna drag it out until the release of the gem on the horizon…

just wished Anet listened to us for a change

People are exaggerating way too much. The mechanics are mostly non-damage related and only give the defending team a small advantage to an attacking force. This is completely different from the -25% moving speed or the knockback + 2-4k damage turrets in eotm. Not to mention that the only thing they have shown on the video are clips of the middle, the towers and the keeps. Almost everything in between these points aren’t shown and don’t have any map mechanics in between meaning you’ll just have the same open field experience as you would have now, just on a much more dynamic looking map.

The only thing I would be worried about is your computer peformance compared to what it’s now since atm it’s already quite heavy for your computer. With all these new shiny effects it’s probably gonna get even heavier for your CPU.

SoPP.7034:

Come on. Is anyone really surprised we get EotM 2.0???

If you’ve been following these forums for any length of time you would have seen posts from DC talking about the success of EotM. About how forums posters don’t reflect the community as a whole etc.

Then come to understand concepts like ‘group think’ mentality and ‘office politics’.

It’s far easier to continue on with your ‘success’ than to admit to your failures.

The thing is, if I wouldn’t check the forums and just be with my guild, I actually would believe people love EoTM. And I personally like the map too. What is wrong about EoTM is, that it is not part of the PPT system and that people from different servers are thrown togetha. Therefor no1 really cares what happens there. All the people complaining about getting pushed down should choose their battles better and move away from the dangerous places.

Forum posters are not the majority. They are but active and invested. So they might be the ones, who are commanding, who are forming communities and are leading the charge (just a theory, I am certainly not ). And judging from this thread: There are just as many people, who seem to like the map, as there are, who seem to dislike it.

However, this map is not EoTM 2.0. Examine it closely. There are places, fro which you can be pushed off, yes. As far as I saw just a minority of them would WP you instantly, some even let you survive and others leave you there to be rezzed. With a certain shrine under your control, you won’t even take falling damage in certain areas. This is hugely different from EoTM.

The only thing that should be addressed is what will happen the Borderlands Bloodlust buff? Will it be retired completely? Will PPK become a permanent addition to WvW instead? Etc.

Lets be honest here, what kiddies are mad about is that their zerg balls wont be as effective and they’ll get farmed by roamers and havoc groups more often, as a roamer I’m looking forward to this map immensely.