Guild Wars 2

Alteros.3019:

I commend Anet for going through all the effort to making what looks like a gorgeous map with some interesting mechanics. Unfortunately for me it doesn’t solve the problem of being blobbed to death. Maybe they didn’t want to ruin the mood of the debut by announcing more than they needed to, but this isn’t enough to get me to come back. It’s just going to be more of the same with different scenery.

Did you watch the presentation? Nearly every new aspect of the map is about spreading out the blob!

It seems that the devs did not learn the lesson from EOTM and put the hot oil at the same vulnerable position as in the old map. This makes me sad. I could not see any cannons and mortars so far.

rainisword.7860:

Saying guild raiding is low skill just proves you are clueless lol.

It is low skillcap, You hide behind an AoE limit, You can’t see animations to dodge and you all run in generic PVT and rely on might stacking. I can tell you from many duel events that most players in GvG guilds have a lower skillcap than your average roamer, Don’t get me wrong theres usually a few decent players but majority of the guild tend to be pretty clueless when it comes to dodging certain skills.

rainisword.7860:

Ive killed blobs with 20 people and raided with the best guilds in this game lol.

Ooo lala, Am i supposed to be impressed? You kill blob pugs for fun with 30 guys. I’ve done the same and my guild has never been over 10. “Best guilds in this game” is also a massive assumption considering theres no way to actually prove their the BEST without a dedicated game mode. Their own egos don’t count i’m afraid.

rainisword.7860:

You are a nobody who sits in silverwastes farming PVE.

Someones getting touchy. Is this what you say when you’re losing every debate? “Omg obviously pver y u talk.”

Even if i was a PvE’r (Which for the record im not.) I’m entitled to an opinion.

rainisword.7860:

You probably stepped into WvW once o your pve dungeon build and got run over by a blob, and now you are salty about WvW and hate it.

Oh i get run over by guild groups or blobs, whatever you want to call them, all the time. The general pug zerg is just clueless single players mostly so it’s understandable. Guild groups of 20 that stack might and veil charge 3 roamers just make me laugh tbh. Not salty at all because i know for a fact in a fair fight they would just run using the excuse “Im in my raiding build.” Aka my braindead build that does no damage.

Not all guilds are like this, I think i’ve encountered 2 who don’t bother wasting time on roamers and actually will fight regardless of their build. Majority seem to be though.

rainisword.7860:

Until you actually have taken part in a guild raid or anything that requires you to use thought(I know you don’t do that much), you shouldn’t talk or even comment on the WvW forum. Stick to the Living story section

More assumpions.. Snooze. I asked you to explain why this update was supposedly ruining WvW for blob guilds and your responce was “I dont have to tell you because your ignorant!” What?

I admit i mainly play sPvP nowdays because my guild is pretty inactive till HoT, I can gaurantee you it requires more thinking than your PVT guild blob that can just rely on the AoE cap and sheer numbers to survive.

It’s a shame really, the dodge mechanic is really good in this game and people like you just choose to ignore it and abuse something which was put in to prevent server lag.

I’ve even seen GvG videos when their leader is telling them when to dodge, Like how can you even try to justify that taking a “High skillcap.”

The thing is guild blobs in WvW have been crying about a stale meta for so long. Now when arena net is trying to change it by changing stability, map ect. You guys moan even more because you’ll have to adapt?

Unbelievable. Try to respond with actual points next time instead of constant childish “Your a pver so i dont have to” Rubbish.

And yet at the end of the day if a bunch of spvp heroes or point capping heroes as I like to call them, grouped up to take on the strongest gvg guild the match wouldn’t end up in a 50:50 score despite gvg’s apparently taking no skill, hmm…

Entioch.6594:

Lets be honest here, what kiddies are mad about is that their zerg balls wont be as effective and they’ll get farmed by roamers and havoc groups more often, as a roamer I’m looking forward to this map immensely.

+1

Couldn’t have said it better myself. They know they’ll have to adapt and until someone works out the new best way to blob they’ll be clueless.

Zetsumei.4975:

And yet at the end of the day if a bunch of spvp heroes or point capping heroes as I like to call them, grouped up to take on the strongest gvg guild the match wouldn’t end up in a 50:50 score despite gvg’s apparently taking no skill, hmm…

sPvp has its flaws with the point capping being a lame feature, I admit that.
5v5 however takes much more skill than 20v20 and if you think otherwise that’s just ignorant.

I’ve partook in 2 or 3 “GvGs” before with 2 other roaming guilds. (We didn’t have enough to reach their numbers alone.) We won everyfight and it wasn’t even close at all, with roaming gear and a bunch of people who don’t know each other well.

If you honestly think the top 20 sPvp players will lose to the “Top” GvG guild then your highly wrong i’m afraid. We already know individually their skill level is higher and they clearly adapt much quicker than GvG guilds.

Zetsumei.4975:

Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu,

Lol. Last thing i read on your forums, regarding your choice to stay on AG or move back to surmia (Way back, i assume you moved again.) I’m sure elnor said “We should move back to surmia, theres less guild groups and we can beat the smaller pug groups down there” followed by a comment from a guildy saying “Yeah it would make our videos look better.” You guys did actually end up moving too!

I’m sorry i just find it highly amusing after your comment.

x Charlie.4820:

snip

Are you on speed? You’ve been posting now for 24hrs flat.

SoPP.7034:

x Charlie.4820:

snip

Are you on speed? You’ve been posting now for 24hrs flat.

My last post before todays was 12 hours ago O_O

x Charlie.4820:

Entioch.6594:

Lets be honest here, what kiddies are mad about is that their zerg balls wont be as effective and they’ll get farmed by roamers and havoc groups more often, as a roamer I’m looking forward to this map immensely.

+1

Couldn’t have said it better myself. They know they’ll have to adapt and until someone works out the new best way to blob they’ll be clueless.

Zetsumei.4975:

And yet at the end of the day if a bunch of spvp heroes or point capping heroes as I like to call them, grouped up to take on the strongest gvg guild the match wouldn’t end up in a 50:50 score despite gvg’s apparently taking no skill, hmm…

sPvp has its flaws with the point capping being a lame feature, I admit that.
5v5 however takes much more skill than 20v20 and if you think otherwise that’s just ignorant.

I’ve partook in 2 or 3 “GvGs” before with 2 other roaming guilds. (We didn’t have enough to reach their numbers alone.) We won everyfight and it wasn’t even close at all, with roaming gear and a bunch of people who don’t know each other well.

If you honestly think the top 20 sPvp players will lose to the “Top” GvG guild then your highly wrong i’m afraid. We already know individually their skill level is higher and they clearly adapt much quicker than GvG guilds.

Zetsumei.4975:

Officer of [DEX] Deus Ex Machina Eu,

Lol. Last thing i read on your forums, regarding your choice to stay on AG or move back to surmia (Way back, i assume you moved again.) I’m sure elnor said “We should move back to surmia, theres less guild groups and we can beat the smaller pug groups down there” followed by a comment from a guildy saying “Yeah it would make our videos look better.” You guys did actually end up moving too!

I’m sorry i just find it highly amusing after your comment.

A wvw guild group could beat any old ‘spvp team’ in an spvp match and it wouldn’t mean anything, there’s a reason I said strongest gvg guild. If you think spvpers could walk into a gvg and beat the top gvg guild you’re welcome to try. As for can a group of spvpers form a half decent gvg team, you sure they can do that without ending up learning to gvg and ruining the point of the argument in the end? Would it be any different from raiders learning to gvg?

Elnor retired from the game a while ago, DEX and Fus have too. DEX was never on AG, and I’m guessing you’ve confused yourself with the common reason of moving down, the phrase ‘less blobs’ and banter somewhere along the line.

Zetsumei.4975:

A wvw guild group could beat any old ‘spvp team’ in an spvp match and it wouldn’t mean anything, there’s a reason I said strongest gvg guild. If you think spvpers could walk into a gvg and beat the top gvg guild you’re welcome to try. As for can a group of spvpers form a half decent gvg team, you sure they can do that without ending up learning to gvg and ruining the point of the argument in the end? Would it be any different from raiders learning to gvg?

Interesting, Why don’t they then if it’s that easy? I’ve walked into GvGs in random gearset with people whom i don’t even know and won. Sure they wasn’t “The best” (not that there is anyway to actually prove your the best) but i’m not one of the top 20 spvp players either. If we put the top 20 spvp players against the top GvG team i personally think it would be interesting i don’t think the GvGrs would win but it would probably be close. Reverse the roles and it’s a no brainer. GvG takes much less personal skill than sPvP thats for sure.

Zetsumei.4975:

Elnor retired from the game a while ago, DEX and Fus have too. DEX was never on AG, and I’m guessing you’ve confused yourself with the common reason of moving down, the phrase ‘less blobs’ and banter somewhere along the line.

Pretty sure they was. Not sure how long you’ve been with DEX for. They certainly moved up, realised they couldn’t GvG the other guilds and ended up moving back down. No banter or less blobs. Was a serious conversation which i believe took place in your private section. Anyway that’s offtopic, i just found that amusing.

Can’t say why zergingls are complaining about the new map.

Nothing will change!

Zerglings before new map: Following the commander tag.
Zerglings after new map: Following the commander tag.

See? Nothing changed.
Flawless.

did anet hire some PvE forum warriors to defend this new map? c’mon guys evry1 can see that this map is lacking and destroying our WvW matchups. high cliffs, small bridges, knockback siege, it will only result in eotm 2.0.
the shrine bonusses, apart from the 2nd effect they give either 10% dmge bonus/reduction/crit dmge boost. People already dislike borderlandsbloodlust for the unbalancing effect, why even increase this boost with like 500%?
crapload of PvE added to the game, pve events, hard bosses etc. leaves less room for actual pvp
skyhammer, not even gonna explain….
and this is just the beginning of a long list…….

Why do people like the wvw aspect of GW2? Do people like to wipe enemies? yes the WvW population primarily plays to wipe out the enemies, however in order to get satisfaction out of wiping your enemies it has to be a fair fight. You want a balanced fight where the victory is decided by coöperation, hard work and alot of dedication, not by sneaking on your enemy, wiping them off a bridge, use sieges only to win the fight.

Please Anet don’t try to get the pvp out of wvw. Try for ones to actually LISTEN to the wvw community and reconsider your upcoming plans

SoulSin.5682:

Can’t say why zergingls are complaining about the new map.

Nothing will change!

Zerglings before new map: Following the commander tag.
Zerglings after new map: Following the commander tag.

See? Nothing changed.
Flawless.

can ppl like this stay in EotM and leave the WvW to us…plz

I wouldn’t mind addition of this map at all, as long as we get to keep old borderlands map alongside it. No rotations, no tournaments, just let us have what we already have.

x Charlie.4820:

…

x Charlie.4820:

Zetsumei.4975:

A wvw guild group could beat any old ‘spvp team’ in an spvp match and it wouldn’t mean anything, there’s a reason I said strongest gvg guild. If you think spvpers could walk into a gvg and beat the top gvg guild you’re welcome to try. As for can a group of spvpers form a half decent gvg team, you sure they can do that without ending up learning to gvg and ruining the point of the argument in the end? Would it be any different from raiders learning to gvg?

Interesting, Why don’t they then if it’s that easy? I’ve walked into GvGs in random gearset with people whom i don’t even know and won. Sure they wasn’t “The best” (not that there is anyway to actually prove your the best) but i’m not one of the top 20 spvp players either. If we put the top 20 spvp players against the top GvG team i personally think it would be interesting i don’t think the GvGrs would win but it would probably be close. Reverse the roles and it’s a no brainer. GvG takes much less personal skill than sPvP thats for sure.

Zetsumei.4975:

Elnor retired from the game a while ago, DEX and Fus have too. DEX was never on AG, and I’m guessing you’ve confused yourself with the common reason of moving down, the phrase ‘less blobs’ and banter somewhere along the line.

Pretty sure they was. Not sure how long you’ve been with DEX for. They certainly moved up, realised they couldn’t GvG the other guilds and ended up moving back down. No banter or less blobs. Was a serious conversation which i believe took place in your private section. Anyway that’s offtopic, i just found that amusing.

Plenty of wvw guilds will walk into a match against another premade team that probably play spvp as their main game mode, for spvp it doesn’t take a whole load of a fuss to ‘set up a match’ as its done for you and most likely happens frequently enough. Good job on making out your opinion about a gvgers skill to be a fact despite never fully immersing yourself in that world I guess?

Nope they weren’t on AG, I’ve been in DEX since long before zergbusting in its modern form was brought to bronze. Actually I know exactly of the context you’re on about and I think I even vaguely remember who made the joke about easier wipes, however, shockingly your ‘facts’ about the subject are completely incorrect.

the krytan assassin.9235:

did anet hire some PvE forum warriors to defend this new map? c’mon guys evry1 can see that this map is lacking and destroying our WvW matchups. high cliffs, small bridges, knockback siege, it will only result in eotm 2.0.
the shrine bonusses, apart from the 2nd effect they give either 10% dmge bonus/reduction/crit dmge boost. People already dislike borderlandsbloodlust for the unbalancing effect, why even increase this boost with like 500%?
crapload of PvE added to the game, pve events, hard bosses etc. leaves less room for actual pvp
skyhammer, not even gonna explain….
and this is just the beginning of a long list…….

Why do people like the wvw aspect of GW2? Do people like to wipe enemies? yes the WvW population primarily plays to wipe out the enemies, however in order to get satisfaction out of wiping your enemies it has to be a fair fight. You want a balanced fight where the victory is decided by coöperation, hard work and alot of dedication, not by sneaking on your enemy, wiping them off a bridge, use sieges only to win the fight.

Please Anet don’t try to get the pvp out of wvw. Try for ones to actually LISTEN to the wvw community and reconsider your upcoming plans

Oh look another guy who seems to think anyone who disagrees on his opinion of wanting an empty green field to play in is obviously a PvEr.

High cliffs and bridges already exist in 1 keep, being hills. They will exist in 1 keep in the new map aswell.

Knockback siege. Trebs and catapults already do this.

“Crapload of PvE Added” Well no. Merely edited PvE.

PvE Events. Where exactly do we have pve events that we didnt have before? I would not call the oasis merley a PvE event considering it happens every 3 hours i would expect players to show up.

Hard bosses? I’m sorry what, Lords can suddently hit some attacks and they automatically become hard?

Skyhammer? It’s a WvW map not spvp. Theres no cannon, no glass panels and you don’t get sent to spawn when you die. Just because the map has levels doesnt automatically make it skyhammer.

You say your not going to explain everything but you haven’t explained ANYTHING. You’ve just listed a bunch of things that are already in the game and said the name of a pvp map.

I personally enjoy wiping my enemies via superior tactics. If they want to stack up on a corner and we have 8 arrowcarts facing it. I’m going to shoot them. I’ve never been that guy to cry about siege being in WvW, it’s part of the game mode.

If you want a fair balanced fight like you say, Your in the wrong place. The chances of you getting an equally numbered, equally geared, equally level fight is very very VERY slim outside of play organised events.

The only reason for anyone to have an issue with terrain is if they’re too lazy to think about how to use it to their advantage.

pmargeti.7680:

I wouldn’t mind addition of this map at all, as long as we get to keep old borderlands map alongside it. No rotations, no tournaments, just let us have what we already have.

Or just learn to adapt.

Zetsumei.4975:

Plenty of wvw guilds will walk into a match against another premade team that probably play spvp as their main game mode, for spvp it doesn’t take a whole load of a fuss to ‘set up a match’ as its done for you and most likely happens frequently enough. Good job on making out your opinion about a gvgers skill to be a fact despite never fully immersing yourself in that world I guess?

Ok you seem to be ignoring the words “Top 20 players” everytime i respond to you. Anyone can beat a random spvp team the same way anyone can beat a random GvG team, I was talking top players since thats what you posted.

It is a fact. 1v1s and smaller fights generally take more individual player skill than a GvG match. You could have several guys not really knowing what they’re doing and still win because there is so many of you. You don’t have to time dodges or stunbreaks. At best you call downs and banners….

SoulSin.5682:

Can’t say why zergingls are complaining about the new map.

Nothing will change!

Zerglings before new map: Following the commander tag.
Zerglings after new map: Following the commander tag.

See? Nothing changed.
Flawless.

I think the commander tag is there for that reason but now we will have more then one tag up beyond the mega zerg becuse you will have to. So your point is saying nothing and using the WORST type of logic.

I will be working a X : and breathing. I will be working at Y : and breathing. So i will be doing the same thing even if these places are different. See the problem with your statement?

McMarc.1276:

rainisword.7860:

McMarc.1276:

Manimarco Devil.1790:

I sometimes think the people who say every change anet is doing to wvw is “pve” have never really played pve or just love making strawman arguments like children. WvW seems to have become this idea that it is ONLY supposed to be open-world pvp but, as far as I remember it, it was always marketed as a balance between pve and pvp. Anet’s plan may just be to try to entice more people into the game mode since it is insanely boring right now unless you are in a guild.
And I love how eotm is constantly bashed when I can legitimately say that the first 2 weeks of that map’s release were the funnest wvw I’ve ever done and I’ve played since beta . The fact that the points never truly mattered is what started killing the game mode and the death knell came when pve’s discovered the karma loot and started abusing it.
inb4 “muh server pride” warriors come in with more fallacies

+1
I agree 100% on this.
The old system might please the small community of GvG headbashers and guild raids, but its not really fun for the majority of the players, which are pve’ers.
And come on people, dont always be so negative about everything they introduce to make it a better experience! I think the new map looks amazing and extremely fun! The only thing I worry about is that middle event. Hope it wont ned like Stonemist castle 3some fights with tons of lag.

-1

The majority of players which are pve’ers? Thats the most uneducated and ridiculous thing ive ever heard.

Its as if you don’t play WvW at all. Man im really really glad you arn’t a dev because youd make WvW a horrible thing lol. PVE’ers have no combat skill whatsoever and are completely useless for WvW which is why they stay away from it. Nearly everyone I know who play WvW only do it or sPvP. By no means is WvW a PVE playground. Which is why people are getting upset that its being turned into one with so many mobs and what not.

complete bullkitten.
You know that people you know =/= the majority of people right?
But however, you’re a good example for toxic people in wvw. “Pve people have no combat skill” yeah thats easy to say right? staying away from wvw because of mega blobbing and all that boring stuff is more likely, but I wont try to discuss this with you, since there wont be any solution.

Honestly let’s not start calling eachother bad, cause in every game mode there’s people smashing their face to their keyboard. However, the majority of people you are talking about can’t be listed as ’’pve’’. These people are listed as ’’casuals’’; Aka people who play every game mode and don’t have the intention to be among the best but rather just play for fun. This, however, does not mean PvE should be introduced in a major form into WvW. WvW should stick to what it is disigned to: Fighting for your server by capturing objectives and gaining as much points possible. This should not require mass PvE zerg festing by doing PvE events, but by capturing and defending towers and keeps. The way to do this is obviously by fighting eachother and using siege to attack or defend.

Aside from this, WvW has developed into such way that multiple guilds who actually try to be among the ’’best’’ of this game mode to fight eachother. This requires open field area’s and not tiny choke points. This group is more than large enough (even after losing about 25-50% of the guilds over the period of time) to be taken seriously into designing the map. Just by adding a couple big open field terrains the map itself could become a warm welcome for new and casual players, aswell for guild groups. So unless the map will be 1 big mess of tiny choke points and PvE events filled with mobs, this map should be pretty interesting for all area’s of WvW.

BlackDevil.9268:

Honestly let’s not start calling eachother bad, cause in every game mode there’s people smashing their face to their keyboard. However, the majority of people you are talking about can’t be listed as ’’pve’’. These people are listed as ’’casuals’’; Aka people who play every game mode and don’t have the intention to be among the best but rather just play for fun. This, however, does not mean PvE should be introduced in a major form into WvW. WvW should stick to what it is disigned to: Fighting for your server by capturing objectives and gaining as much points possible. This should not require mass PvE zerg festing by doing PvE events, but by capturing and defending towers and keeps. The way to do this is obviously by fighting eachother and using siege to attack or defend.

Aside from this, WvW has developed into such way that multiple guilds who actually try to be among the ’’best’’ of this game mode to fight eachother. This requires open field area’s and not tiny choke points. This group is more than large enough (even after losing about 25-50% of the guilds over the period of time) to be taken seriously into designing the map. Just by adding a couple big open field terrains the map itself could become a warm welcome for new and casual players, aswell for guild groups. So unless the map will be 1 big mess of tiny choke points and PvE events filled with mobs, this map should be pretty interesting for all area’s of WvW.

Yeah of course, that is kind of what I want to say aswell. I never want big pve events into wvw. All I was poiting out is the fact that with this new map the “zerging” hopefully breaks up a bit so other players, call them “casuals” if that is better to understand for all (meaned those anyways ), will have a much easier entry and more fun, since there is more stuff that could actually be relevant for the server score so that your appearence actually makes a small difference. At least that is what i hope for the new map

@x Charlie.4820
My intention is not to get into a massive discussion with you about this since, shown in this thread, will be neverending but I disagree on some things you said:

How exactly can you even think 20 top sPvP’ers will straight up beat the ’’top’’ GvG team? The game modes are completely different from eachother and it would require many people to reroll to another class, which they aren’t so skilled on. It would require weeks if not months of training to adapt to the playstyle. Just an example: 55hp monks tried it and failed horribly.

Just by ‘’looking at it’’ or ‘’watching a video with voice coms’’ you can’t decide if something requires skill or not. You don’t see me argueing if speed run dungeons require skill or not because I know nothing about it. Same goes for you: You obviously have little to no experience about GvG, so why argue about it? Are you that thirsty to call GvG players bad to boost your own ego as roamer?

The average roamer is hiding behind cheesy condi builds. Don’t tell me you actually think that requires skill. (With this said I don’t mean all roamers hide behind cheese, cause obviously there are very good skilled roamers too)

I can already see it. Necro Zergs with fear.
I guess It’s fun right?

x Charlie.4820:

In my opinion the majority of people who like “This form of WvW” (Being in that they dont want to actually play WvW) aren’t very skilled individually.
I would say majority of roamers have much more individual skill than the zerg guilds who cower behind the AoE limit and perma stability.

The problem with this topic is that after 3 years complaining about Blobs most players gave up and left.
Leaving behind the zerglings that now found ways to do high skilled zergling and are now worried that their game will change.

Let’s face it. I love how some guilds make a selection of 20 skilled players using the correct build and organized on voice and all. That’s how a real zerg should be.
This is the reason why commanders have a 20 man-squad limit. That’s how WvW was meant to be played. That’s where the main force of a server should be.

Point is that, most players just blob in a 50~70 man group of players using PvE equipment and just blow everything out of proportions by following blindless a commander tag. This is a ISSUE that is finally getting some attention and is the reason why I am loving the new map designs.

lastly, and not more important. Eternal Battlegrounds will stay. Meaning that players can still blob up somewhere if they need to.
But like any good zergling, if the commander tell everyone to go to borderlands, everyone will follow. Nothing changes in that part.

Nick.6972:

I can already see it. Necro Zergs with fear.
I guess It’s fun right?

Who will the necro fear (wall) if they are just fighting other necros? See i do not get this point of view at all its like ppl talking about stab changes that no one will play melee classes becuse of all the guardians lines hard countering them. It feels like ppl are trying to use classes and saying death to X but not to complainer about the lack of a class but of something over all they hate and it simply dose not work logically.

But yes if you run mindlessly into a fear wall mark nado guardian’s hammer your going to get kicked off the side of something one hopes but that not the maps fault its YOURS.

I liked a lot of what I saw…until the end. I get where Anet was trying to go with that Oasis event. I do. And on servers that that have equal enough populations that play during the same hours, it can be interesting.

Problem is that isn’t the reality in WvW for any servers. Problem is that there is a greater chance that a havok group on a not so populated server will meet a much large force during peak hours that will simply roll them, get the cannon and immediately take what few structures the other team has. Problem is that servers that have their numbers fighting in the off hours of other servers can use this to take objectives faster and hold them for longer in those off hours further shining the spotlight on the coverage/playtime/PPT issue.

I just don’t see this cannon as a good thing for WvW except for possibly the top 2-3 servers in WvW. In bronze it will be an absolute nightmare.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I liked a lot of what I saw…until the end. I get where Anet was trying to go with that Oasis event. I do. And on servers that that have equal enough populations that play during the same hours, it can be interesting.

Problem is that isn’t the reality in WvW for any servers. Problem is that there is a greater chance that a havok group on a not so populated server will meet a much large force during peak hours that will simply roll them, get the cannon and immediately take what few structures the other team has. Problem is that servers that have their numbers fighting in the off hours of other servers can use this to take objectives faster and hold them for longer in those off hours further shining the spotlight on the coverage/playtime/PPT issue.

I just don’t see this cannon as a good thing for WvW except for possibly the top 2-3 servers in WvW. In bronze it will be an absolute nightmare.

I can’t agree more with it.

Maybe they should had made the “cannon” the same way that Commander siegerazer works like now. In a way that only the team losing their borderlands could make use for.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I liked a lot of what I saw…until the end. I get where Anet was trying to go with that Oasis event. I do. And on servers that that have equal enough populations that play during the same hours, it can be interesting.

Problem is that isn’t the reality in WvW for any servers. Problem is that there is a greater chance that a havok group on a not so populated server will meet a much large force during peak hours that will simply roll them, get the cannon and immediately take what few structures the other team has. Problem is that servers that have their numbers fighting in the off hours of other servers can use this to take objectives faster and hold them for longer in those off hours further shining the spotlight on the coverage/playtime/PPT issue.

I just don’t see this cannon as a good thing for WvW except for possibly the top 2-3 servers in WvW. In bronze it will be an absolute nightmare.

Yes, that’s the only thing that bugged me a little with the presentation. I really hope Anet has an army of devs ready to make some hot fixes during the betas and when HoT goes live, because there is no way to know how this will play out.

WvW has a history of changes turning out to be very different than expected. EotM was everything we asked for (except for the return-to-spawn-on-death cheese), and yet we turned it into a karma train. Siege disablers were announced to be the end of WvW, and now everyone use them and adapt their tactics around them. We’ll see.

After reading this thread I could not help but respond. The new map looks awesome and so much to do for so many different types of groups.

Anyone on here that is complaining are 99% the players who complain about everything unless they one push a zerg. The map isn’t even out yet and people are complaining based off of a total of 5 minutes of footage and 1 presentation by the Devs. If you are so easily scared of being knocked off then learn to play? I have gone into EOTM many times as a pugmannder, skill group, and just roamer and it is really not hard to NOT get knocked off. Just learn to actually pay attention.

As for everyone who is complaining about not being able to do anything as a roamer, chances are all you do currently is hide near spawns to try to snipe people and think your pro when you get 3 hits off before they can adjust and counter.

I am excited for the new map for no other reason than I am hoping that some of the complainers quit the game and a new breed of WvW arises that makes full use of the map and really takes WvW to a whole new level of coordination and intensity. Not sit on forums and in spawns complaining that they don’t have enough room to run at another group or that they were too stupid to see a fear line or a necro sitting above them waiting for them to come at them.

So overall, the two things I don’t particularly like are Oasis Event and the new siege.
The oasis event, as I and some other people point out, can be detrimental to the side with smaller number. The new siege is simply way too strong imho. You will probably always need it for any open field fight.

pmargeti.7680:

I wouldn’t mind addition of this map at all, as long as we get to keep old borderlands map alongside it. No rotations, no tournaments, just let us have what we already have.

+1 this would be fine. You could even make the old BL maps not count towards ppt or somthing, just leave them so guilds that are in wvw purely for open field fights can go have their fun as well.

johnno.7543:

pmargeti.7680:

I wouldn’t mind addition of this map at all, as long as we get to keep old borderlands map alongside it. No rotations, no tournaments, just let us have what we already have.

+1 this would be fine. You could even make the old BL maps not count towards ppt or somthing, just leave them so guilds that are in wvw purely for open field fights can go have their fun as well. [/quote]

Issue is more than half of the servers can’t sustain any kind of coverage on three borderlands maps, much less six (regardless of ppt).

I think these changes look great and can’t wait to play these new maps.

However, what WvW really needs (and has for a long time) is something to address the huge disparities between server populations. Otherwise, the experience is fun some weeks and just plain frustrating and boring the rest.

Shadows Creed.3902:

After reading this thread I could not help but respond. The new map looks awesome and so much to do for so many different types of groups.

Anyone on here that is complaining are 99% the players who complain about everything unless they one push a zerg. The map isn’t even out yet and people are complaining based off of a total of 5 minutes of footage and 1 presentation by the Devs. If you are so easily scared of being knocked off then learn to play? I have gone into EOTM many times as a pugmannder, skill group, and just roamer and it is really not hard to NOT get knocked off. Just learn to actually pay attention.

As for everyone who is complaining about not being able to do anything as a roamer, chances are all you do currently is hide near spawns to try to snipe people and think your pro when you get 3 hits off before they can adjust and counter.

I am excited for the new map for no other reason than I am hoping that some of the complainers quit the game and a new breed of WvW arises that makes full use of the map and really takes WvW to a whole new level of coordination and intensity. Not sit on forums and in spawns complaining that they don’t have enough room to run at another group or that they were too stupid to see a fear line or a necro sitting above them waiting for them to come at them.

To Shadows Creed
Funny, but to me looks like 99% of the people who think this map is “awesome” are EOTM pugmanders like you, Sir.

As for the map
Shortly after the officially announced HoT expansion, in some website (i dont remember which one, maybe even here) Anet devs told us how they learn from they mistakes, how they learn from EOTM huge fail. Then I said to myself, ok thats great news, lets wait and see. Couple weeks ago i saw the first advertising video, and i said to myself, again – cant be only this, lets wait some more. But today i saw the 2nd video + some interview.
And, Oh God what a beautiful map, we got all in one place, deserts, oasis, jungles, cracks in the ground, lava, lava rivers, lava pools, jumping puzzles, sPVP, more sPVP, PVE, new type of mobs to kill, dinosaurs, YEEEY (who doesnt love dinosaurs), air dodging, rock mazes, ABSOLUTLY everything – for dungeon map.
Awesome dungeon map, prob the best i have ever seen.
WvWvW = fights between players???, or i am wrong
Where is the battle in all this. Environment will prob kill 70% of the people before they even have the chance to met some enemys..
This map + stability Nerf, WvWvW will become the most boring part of GW2.
One huge range blob. Why do you think Guardians are getting bows for new weapon (Guard with bow, makes 0 sense, but, hey who cares, few PvEr are QQing for bow and condi Guard in the past 2 years )
Now i know, Anet will never ever gonna take WvWvW seriously. They will do everything they can to push away The Hartcore WvWvW players.
As Anet told us, long time ago, WvWvW is for casual players to use sieges from time to time. Thats all.

SoulSin.5682:

x Charlie.4820:

In my opinion the majority of people who like “This form of WvW” (Being in that they dont want to actually play WvW) aren’t very skilled individually.
I would say majority of roamers have much more individual skill than the zerg guilds who cower behind the AoE limit and perma stability.

The problem with this topic is that after 3 years complaining about Blobs most players gave up and left.
Leaving behind the zerglings that now found ways to do high skilled zergling and are now worried that their game will change.

Let’s face it. I love how some guilds make a selection of 20 skilled players using the correct build and organized on voice and all. That’s how a real zerg should be.
This is the reason why commanders have a 20 man-squad limit. That’s how WvW was meant to be played. That’s where the main force of a server should be.

Point is that, most players just blob in a 50~70 man group of players using PvE equipment and just blow everything out of proportions by following blindless a commander tag. This is a ISSUE that is finally getting some attention and is the reason why I am loving the new map designs.

lastly, and not more important. Eternal Battlegrounds will stay. Meaning that players can still blob up somewhere if they need to.
But like any good zergling, if the commander tell everyone to go to borderlands, everyone will follow. Nothing changes in that part.

The problem with EB will be queues. The open field fights guilds will all want to be on EB along with the pugs that EB usually has. Fight guilds atm have the option of spreading across 4 maps if the new map with all the siege, pve, more defending ends up not being a choice for fight guilds, you will have all the fight guilds trying to get on EB creating massive queues. When that happens people who dislike the new map and get fed up with waiting all the time to get on the only map they enjoy will most likely stop playing. This can all be avoided by giving fight guilds the option to play on the old BLs and having those BLs not count towards ppt(obviously having 6 maps or somthing for ppt would not work). This is a win win situation as PPT players will be able to do their thing without having fight guilds who dont help defend taking up spots on thier BL, and the fights guilds will be happy that we won’t have to PPT to draw out fights.

Blaeys.3102:

johnno.7543:

pmargeti.7680:

I wouldn’t mind addition of this map at all, as long as we get to keep old borderlands map alongside it. No rotations, no tournaments, just let us have what we already have.

+1 this would be fine. You could even make the old BL maps not count towards ppt or somthing, just leave them so guilds that are in wvw purely for open field fights can go have their fun as well.

Issue is more than half of the servers can’t sustain any kind of coverage on three borderlands maps, much less six (regardless of ppt).

I think these changes look great and can’t wait to play these new maps.

However, what WvW really needs (and has for a long time) is something to address the huge disparities between server populations. Otherwise, the experience is fun some weeks and just plain frustrating and boring the rest.

Well like i said have the old BLs not count towards the matchup ppt so you dont need to worry about coverage on those maps, they would purely be for fighting.

I just hope the devs are introducing this map because they play www know what the player base want and not some brain dead restarted no thinking map like eotm is .

If open field fights are not possible , I’ll leave , which is not an issue its 1 person , the guild I run will continue I hope , that’s only 60 people , this is also not an issue , the 10 other fighting guild on the server stop as well 600 people ,

servers empty not an issue for me ,

Thanks for the 2years plus I’ll be playing cu ,

Blaeys.3102:

However, what WvW really needs (and has for a long time) is something to address the huge disparities between server populations. Otherwise, the experience is fun some weeks and just plain frustrating and boring the rest.

What WvW has needed for a long time is a reason to win, a reason to fight for, and a reason to care about ones World. By looking at the history and changes to WvW, I’m thinking we’re not far off from going Green, Blue, and Red too.

I play in RoF! Low tier server. And the curent state of wvwvw is somewhat of boring if i can say. The 3 indentical maps are not a good aidea.
To be honest i like much more EOTM! But you know what the problem is whit EOTM?
Its a map thats not tied to your server. And u cannot care for defending there. Coss its on 3 hour reset. And if you DC you get back on another MAP. Yet i leveled some alts in eotm while defending keeps. And i can tell you its super fun.

I dont get why ppl complain about something they didnt played yet. That what i saw made me really excited. So much color and difference in that map. Its so alive. And about blobing thats the most unbalanced and boring part in wvw for me.

In general evryone has the rights to say what he thinks. So go ahead.
Im whit bouth hands UP for the new map!!! Just do what you do GW2 DEVTEAM! Can’t whait for the new expansion.

Delcat.1245:

I just hope the devs are introducing this map because they play www know what the player base want and not some brain dead restarted no thinking map like eotm is .

If open field fights are not possible , I’ll leave , which is not an issue its 1 person , the guild I run will continue I hope , that’s only 60 people , this is also not an issue , the 10 other fighting guild on the server stop as well 600 people ,

servers empty not an issue for me ,

Thanks for the 2years plus I’ll be playing cu ,

I’m curious. I don’t know you, so your departure wouldn’t sadden me, but why exactly would you stop playing? Classic open field WvW will still be a thing in HoT. Nobody is forcing you to play on the new map.

Nick.6972:

I can already see it. Necro Zergs with fear.
I guess It’s fun right?

Only going to matter in areas close to the air keep which is the only place that features deep canyons. Remember that if you own the air keep and its 3 shrines, you’ll be immune to falling damage.

Everywhere else, elevation and cliff are going to be very similar to what already exists in EBG or the alpine BL.

Just give this map a chance. You’ll have the right to rant after you’ve played it for a week.

Sorel.4870:

Delcat.1245:

I just hope the devs are introducing this map because they play www know what the player base want and not some brain dead restarted no thinking map like eotm is .

If open field fights are not possible , I’ll leave , which is not an issue its 1 person , the guild I run will continue I hope , that’s only 60 people , this is also not an issue , the 10 other fighting guild on the server stop as well 600 people ,

servers empty not an issue for me ,

Thanks for the 2years plus I’ll be playing cu ,

I’m curious. I don’t know you, so your departure wouldn’t sadden me, but why exactly would you stop playing? Classic open field WvW will still be a thing in HoT. Nobody is forcing you to play on the new map.

Maybe read up on offical release info then, cause they are starting off with a rotation of the new Map and REMOVING Border maps even thats temporarily its a removal, so YES we are being forced to play new map or EB

Ravezaar.4951:

Maybe read up on offical release info then, cause they are starting off with a rotation of the new Map and REMOVING Border maps even thats temporarily its a removal, so YES we are being forced to play new map or EB

Only temporarily. On the release, most players will want to play on the new map, that’s probably why they are removing the alpine BL: the coverage issues on these would be insane (it’s already ugly on some servers). How would you have done it? Furthermore, EB is very similar to the alpine BL. The towers are identical, there are big, flat, open fields, zerging is a valid tactic on it as well. Even the environment looks similar.

@sorel
I and my guild fight 90% on the borderland maps and have done since release.
so If the new map is to gimmicky and narrow like eotm there would be no place for fighting guild to go , ebg is a map you go to fight if the match up is boring or no other guilds to fight , so if no where to fight as we do now there is no point in playing gw2 imo, being forced to play on maps you don’t want too is not a reason to keep playing ,
So imo a good enough reason to stop playing , anet might think that’s not a loss but I buy enough gems through a year to compare to a subs game , that’s just to keep playing www , I don’t play any other mode

Some people like to roam, some people like to defend, some people like to fight zergs. I myself like to do all 3. Why can’t we have it all? I’m all for making it harder for zergs to be effective. Does this mean we can’t have some open field on the new map for those that like to fight open field? Maybe there is plenty of open field, all the video footage we’ve seen so far has been pretty focused on the objectives. Honestly wish Anet would just give us a proper tour of the map.

Anyone who thinks this map will break up zergs is wrong. They made it easier to defend. That means it requires more players to break a tower. That means zergs. Either it will end up like eotm where the keeps are so ridiculously easy to defend with siege that nobody bothers to fight at all, or it will be like the current BLs.

Either way, zergs.

It sounds really really fun and interesting, i only hope you can design very good personal rewards.

BlackDevil.9268:

Honestly let’s not start calling eachother bad, cause in every game mode there’s people smashing their face to their keyboard. However, the majority of people you are talking about can’t be listed as ’’pve’’. These people are listed as ’’casuals’’; Aka people who play every game mode and don’t have the intention to be among the best but rather just play for fun. This, however, does not mean PvE should be introduced in a major form into WvW. WvW should stick to what it is disigned to: Fighting for your server by capturing objectives and gaining as much points possible. This should not require mass PvE zerg festing by doing PvE events, but by capturing and defending towers and keeps. The way to do this is obviously by fighting eachother and using siege to attack or defend.

Aside from this, WvW has developed into such way that multiple guilds who actually try to be among the ’’best’’ of this game mode to fight eachother. This requires open field area’s and not tiny choke points. This group is more than large enough (even after losing about 25-50% of the guilds over the period of time) to be taken seriously into designing the map. Just by adding a couple big open field terrains the map itself could become a warm welcome for new and casual players, aswell for guild groups. So unless the map will be 1 big mess of tiny choke points and PvE events filled with mobs, this map should be pretty interesting for all area’s of WvW.

It’s funny you should mention that bold part, as right now it sums up to: PvDoor, attacking undefended camps, towers, and keeps. There is little to no ‘siege’ now save for the same exact lackluster ones from the start of the game: rams on doors, trebs from the NE and NW towers to the North Keep, and a very occasional [Guild/Superior] Cat stack 3ft from a wall to against yet another undefended keep.

This is even though the developers have put much time and effort into trying to inject spice into WvW by making materies for cannons, ballista, catapults, oil, and so many other things too. However their use is such a rarity that shock can arise when seeing such a thing.

WvW is not design for “fair fights”, never was and never will. If it was intended to be so, people would be the same level across the board, stats and all -not simply ‘boosted’-; it’d basically be like sPvP where gear would be universal and stats removed. Want that? Because that seems to be what’s being requested time and time again when people are asking for some random GvG mode for even fights between even number evenly. That is NOT WvW!

WvW is about 15 people trying to defend a keep against 30+ with nothing more than 2 arrow carts and a prayer. WvW is about a small “havoc squad” of 5 attempting to take a supply camp only to have a group of 7 steam roll into the circle at the last second and a fight breaks out between the 5 and 7. Who will win? A matter of a multiple factors such as real player levels, Ascended gear, builds, ability combos, group synergy, the one guy in the corner keyboard turning, who is better at dodging large hit skills, and so on. But at no point will the fight be ‘fair’ at all. And this is WvW.

A bit off-topic: A huge thing they need to change with this WvW revamp in Heart of Thorns is how the PPT (Points Per Tick) is accumulated. They need to change it to make sure that there is no time-gap between ticks were teams see it as an opportunity to flip at the last second, get a tick, allow the enemy to retake it because “more than enough time until the next tick to get it back”. There should be value to HOLD and KEEP the point giving objectives. Flipping should be punished in a point system, not rewards in this audacious way.

I’m think that the point system should be fractioned off based on the length of hold that any given team has said objective so as to prevent last second objective flipping. So with 15 minutes on a 100 point Keep, holding it for the full 15 minutes accumulates 100pts. However breaking it up into 5x 3 minute periods to where every 3 minutes accumulates 20% of the points for the total of that point tick period. This way a team that flips it at the last minute….well tough luck sally, they actually get 0 pts. However the team that held it for the previous 14 minutes within that cycle will be getting 80pts ( 14/3=4.6, rounded to 4 for the 12 minutes. 4x(100/5)=80). Sure there is a lost 20pts that nobody obtains because the keep is not held be anyone one group for the full minimum length of that 3minute period. But that makes the tick system much more interesting and make holding objectives a far more valued thing because it wouldn’t be about flipping them right before the tick only, but instead holding them for long intervals of time to obtain the tick per 3min portions.

Bubi.5237:

After watching “the video” (the presentation they streamed), for me it seems like an eotm +skyhammer+pve combo.

Ledges to knock enemies off.
Automated Turrets which shoots you.
Big Boom Cannon which destroys every enemy outer gate (basically opening every tower), so you can capture everything faster when you have superior numbers (timezones for da win!).
Keep Lord, which are.. “fun to fight”.
’Cos wvw players love to fight npcs, yup.

The map is nice, it’s beautiful, but.. I fear the mechanics will make it close to unplayable for me

Edit: Dulfy’s link for those who didn’t see it yet. http://dulfy.net/2015/03/14/gw2-egx-wvw-desert-borderlands-map-reveal/

It’s far from “new” and it’s going to be hated more than any other “change” in WvW.

I am insulted – we didn’t need disorientation, jumping and more cheating of the Devs, sliding maps sideways into WvW from BAD sources like PvP and EOTM!

Ew what the OP says really sounds so bad.

I mean… I hate PvE most, EotM second most, I hate Skyhammer third most.

This kinda sounds like the worst map to play in for a PvP player in the whole of GW2.

Shadows Creed.3902:

johnno.7543:

SoulSin.5682:

x Charlie.4820:

In my opinion the majority of people who like “This form of WvW” (Being in that they dont want to actually play WvW) aren’t very skilled individually.
I would say majority of roamers have much more individual skill than the zerg guilds who cower behind the AoE limit and perma stability.

The problem with this topic is that after 3 years complaining about Blobs most players gave up and left.
Leaving behind the zerglings that now found ways to do high skilled zergling and are now worried that their game will change.

Let’s face it. I love how some guilds make a selection of 20 skilled players using the correct build and organized on voice and all. That’s how a real zerg should be.
This is the reason why commanders have a 20 man-squad limit. That’s how WvW was meant to be played. That’s where the main force of a server should be.

Point is that, most players just blob in a 50~70 man group of players using PvE equipment and just blow everything out of proportions by following blindless a commander tag. This is a ISSUE that is finally getting some attention and is the reason why I am loving the new map designs.

lastly, and not more important. Eternal Battlegrounds will stay. Meaning that players can still blob up somewhere if they need to.
But like any good zergling, if the commander tell everyone to go to borderlands, everyone will follow. Nothing changes in that part.

The problem with EB will be queues. The open field fights guilds will all want to be on EB along with the pugs that EB usually has. Fight guilds atm have the option of spreading across 4 maps if the new map with all the siege, pve, more defending ends up not being a choice for fight guilds, you will have all the fight guilds trying to get on EB creating massive queues. When that happens people who dislike the new map and get fed up with waiting all the time to get on the only map they enjoy will most likely stop playing. This can all be avoided by giving fight guilds the option to play on the old BLs and having those BLs not count towards ppt(obviously having 6 maps or somthing for ppt would not work). This is a win win situation as PPT players will be able to do their thing without having fight guilds who dont help defend taking up spots on thier BL, and the fights guilds will be happy that we won’t have to PPT to draw out fights.

The amount of times I have been in EOTM maybe 20 total. The fact you jump to that conclusion is hilarious at best. I ran CTH and for those that were actually apart of Maguuma and the T2 scene when it was at its most vicious. You know full well the ninja ops we pulled off and the skill we had. But just to proove a point to you. Here’s a video we posted up of us during a weekend reset against SOR.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxRSeKsly2s

Wait where did i mention anything about EoTM. Where did i say anything relating to ninja ops, im actually confused did you quote me on accident because nothing you said relates to what i said in my post at all lol. Ah yeah i just noticed you must have meant to quote the person above my post since he was the one addressing you.

Avit.3165:

Shadows Creed.3902:

After reading this thread I could not help but respond. The new map looks awesome and so much to do for so many different types of groups.

Anyone on here that is complaining are 99% the players who complain about everything unless they one push a zerg. The map isn’t even out yet and people are complaining based off of a total of 5 minutes of footage and 1 presentation by the Devs. If you are so easily scared of being knocked off then learn to play? I have gone into EOTM many times as a pugmannder, skill group, and just roamer and it is really not hard to NOT get knocked off. Just learn to actually pay attention.

As for everyone who is complaining about not being able to do anything as a roamer, chances are all you do currently is hide near spawns to try to snipe people and think your pro when you get 3 hits off before they can adjust and counter.

I am excited for the new map for no other reason than I am hoping that some of the complainers quit the game and a new breed of WvW arises that makes full use of the map and really takes WvW to a whole new level of coordination and intensity. Not sit on forums and in spawns complaining that they don’t have enough room to run at another group or that they were too stupid to see a fear line or a necro sitting above them waiting for them to come at them.

To Shadows Creed
Funny, but to me looks like 99% of the people who think this map is “awesome” are EOTM pugmanders like you, Sir.

As for the map
Shortly after the officially announced HoT expansion, in some website (i dont remember which one, maybe even here) Anet devs told us how they learn from they mistakes, how they learn from EOTM huge fail. Then I said to myself, ok thats great news, lets wait and see. Couple weeks ago i saw the first advertising video, and i said to myself, again – cant be only this, lets wait some more. But today i saw the 2nd video + some interview.
And, Oh God what a beautiful map, we got all in one place, deserts, oasis, jungles, cracks in the ground, lava, lava rivers, lava pools, jumping puzzles, sPVP, more sPVP, PVE, new type of mobs to kill, dinosaurs, YEEEY (who doesnt love dinosaurs), air dodging, rock mazes, ABSOLUTLY everything – for dungeon map.
Awesome dungeon map, prob the best i have ever seen.
WvWvW = fights between players???, or i am wrong
Where is the battle in all this. Environment will prob kill 70% of the people before they even have the chance to met some enemys..
This map + stability Nerf, WvWvW will become the most boring part of GW2.
One huge range blob. Why do you think Guardians are getting bows for new weapon (Guard with bow, makes 0 sense, but, hey who cares, few PvEr are QQing for bow and condi Guard in the past 2 years )
Now i know, Anet will never ever gonna take WvWvW seriously. They will do everything they can to push away The Hartcore WvWvW players.
As Anet told us, long time ago, WvWvW is for casual players to use sieges from time to time. Thats all.

The amount of times I have been in EOTM maybe 20 total. The fact you jump to that conclusion is hilarious at best. I ran CTH and for those that were actually apart of Maguuma and the T2 scene when it was at its most vicious. You know full well the ninja ops we pulled off and the skill we had. But just to proove a point to you. Here’s a video we posted up of us during a weekend reset against SOR.

I don,t get why they want to go do the rotation idea. 3 identical versions of a single map, then 1 month later 3 identical versions of another map, then back to the other one…. WHy not have 3 different maps all the time by adding EOTM to the PPT rotation?

Nobody goes to EOTM for 5 minutes when they are in queue anyway, it takes 10 minutes just to get to the zerg anyway since there are no waypoints on that map.

Xillllix.3485:

I don,t get why they want to go do the rotation idea. 3 identical versions of a single map, then 1 month later 3 identical versions of another map, then back to the other one…. WHy not have 3 different maps all the time by adding EOTM to the PPT rotation?

Nobody goes to EOTM for 5 minutes when they are in queue anyway, it takes 10 minutes just to get to the zerg anyway since there are no waypoints on that map.

EOTM cannot be rotated with EBG because it of the different number of objectives and the lack of stonemist. However I’d pay to see real T1 WvW happening on this map.