It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.
Why do wvw guilds hate rangers?
It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.
People put out a spirit, see it die, and believe that it is useless… but it is not. Even if a spirit melts instantly, it will still provide 15 seconds of post death buffs to players in that area… they pulse 3 times after death.
3 Seconds after a Frost Spirit is created, the 5 nearest allies (players prioritized) get the Frost Spirit buff which gives them a 70% chance (traited) to do 10% bonus damage on every hit. This buff lasts for 6 seconds. 3 Seconds later, the 5 nearest allies get the buff… these can be 5 different players for a total of 10 players getting 70% chance to do 10% bonus damage on every hit. How much damage is gained by 8-10 players getting an effective 7% damage boost?
After the Spirit dies, it pulses 3 more times. For a full 15 seconds after it dies it is still granting bonus damage. And death actually cuts the cooldown on Cold Snap and Quicksand dramatically… and allows them to activate an additional time through Vengeful Spirits.
Dead Spirits ain’t that bad. But if you don’t know what is happening, they just look like dead lumps of ectoplasm.
it’s not a warrior.
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
….. And Elementalist.
to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!
please remain on-topic, thanks!
(edited by mistsim.2748)
The discussion’s summary of spirits as “worthless, dying in 2 seconds” was incomplete, so I added relevant detail.
it’s not a warrior.
Or guardian, or mesmer, or necro, or ele, or theif.
Connection error(s) detected. Retrying…
to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!
please remain on-topic, thanks!
Because most rangers I have came across have play styles and builds that are either not beneficial to anyone but themselves or their play style and builds are not beneficial to anyone including themselves. Why because this profession attracts players who want to hide behind pets and pew pew. While not everyone who is attracted by this profession has that mentality the majority of them do. And that play style doesn’t work to good in most aspects of the game including some PVE.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
You don’t deal good AoE damage like a Elementalist or a Necromancer.
You don’t bring as much fields as other classes except for your healing spring.
you aren’t as good on a frontline as a warrior or a guardian.
For the other parts you can most likely fill in the blanks.
Rangers just don’t have a strong position in WvW right now.
Can’t even think of a Roaming ranger that beats me on any other class.
Sure they can be played in tPvP and PvE but it’s just weak for WvW.
Even when it comes down to PvP you just have these lame builds running around twerking and spamming spirits.
So yeah, when WvW guilds hate rangers you can pretty much put the blame on class design.
I personally haven’t played ranger for 7 months.
I play a warrior, guardian necromancer and elementalist, thief and engineer for WvW
But as far as rangers goes, I wouln’t want to roam with it either.
it’s not a warrior.
Or guardian, or mesmer, or necro, or ele, or theif.
Or warrior. Press any button to win is a must have, a warbanner to look pro and a few shouts or stances to be a god. Or…………………….. A guardian to support said warrior.
Necros only remove boons to give warriors an easier time killing someone.
Thief will shadow refuge bad warriors who get downed till they succeed.
A mesmer will make warrior invisible for surprise but seks.
In theory – Must play warrior.
All classes support the warrior, and if he or she can not support the warrior to his pleasing then that class they play will be punished accordingly
I mostly play for the new Free-For-All arena in PvP lobby.
….. And Elementalist.
….. And Elementalist.
(edited by sephiroth.4217)
i havent experienced any discrimination in wvw as a ranger. my guild commander always invites me to his party and im a zerker ranger to boot with double bows. he calls me the tiger ranger because of my stomper. an ele can be easily killed by a ranger. you dont even need to swap your weapon to deplete a staff ele’s hp.
if im running with a zerg, i know my role to kill squishies (thieves and eles). most of the times they are all fighting in a zerg and they wont even know you’re the one hitting them. i still think that the spirits need a huge hp buff to make them effective. it is undeniably the best build spvp/tpvp ranger build but useless in wvw.
PVP Ranger: Prince Valentine, PVP Warrior: Prince of Hearts I, and PVP Mesmer: Prince Valentine I
Anything a ranger can do another class can do better.
yes. this is a very important topic because an entire profession is MISSING from wvw. i dont understand why theyre not taking this seriously. allow me to address this issue as someone with over 1k hours on retired ranger, who plays other professions currently.
people love killing and hating rangers because they are the trolls of GW2. not sure if anyone remembers Retribution paladins or hunters from vanilla WoW, they were KOS for most people just like rangers are. there are several reasons for this attitude toward rangers:
- by far attract the worst players in the game, and have low skill cap
- hard countered by immobilize and virtually no reliable condi cleanse
- people cant stand rangers pew pew’ing with bows from 1200, it kittenes everyone off
- pets lack AI, which feeds into the “rere” image
- petting zoo is seen as zero skill cap, monitor crowding spec
- rangers dont do enough AOE damage, dont have enough survivability and dont have enough utility (***this is probably the main reason rangers are banned from most serious WvW guilds)how we can change this attitude:
- keep petitioning devs to buff the profession in WvW, keep asking for pet mechanic revamp, keep asking for trait cleanup.
- run solid builds and pets to contribute something useful, like canines, high survivability immobs, or condi regen in small scale; use healing spring appropriately and ask people to blast it. change people’s attitudes by playing the best you can play.Rangers are great to have in roaming groups. And nice for defending small objectives. You can hold a camp for a long time with a ranger and a few other ppl.
ranger is one of the worst roaming professions. mobility is good, but you have no real escapes (blinks, target drops), no instant stability skills like SYG or stances, little utility for your group, not enough damage, and NO RELIABLE CONDI CLEANSING, making immob a hard counter and ranger’s worst nightmare.
the serious issue of group utility: rangers reliably give only the worst boons to the group (regen, swiftness and fury, which eles, guards and warriors kitten out constantly). rangers do bring the best aoe immobs in the game, second best water field, and have decent survivability is specced right. thats about it folks.
the serious issue of profession mechanic: pets melt instantly in serious wvw engagements, and F2’s while useful have long cast times, which is why they only work on afk people and other PVE mobs.
the serious issue of worst aoe damage in the game: aoe is bread and butter of WvW and ranger has only ONE viable aoe ability (Path of Scars, because it’s instant, long range and low CD), and ONE unreliably aoe ability (Barrage due to its long cast time). traps, torch, GS cleave, Whirling Defense are bad bad bad bad.
i would LOVE it if Karl, JP, or Devon would comment a little on their perception of the ranger in WvW and future plans to make the profession usable in this game mode.
Literally every sentence of this is complete crap. You are wrong on every single word. Every… single…. word….
I could not find one thing I agreed with. ggwp.
Ranger | Elementalist
7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.
Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.
This was before ascended weapons and armors.
Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.
You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.
By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.
I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.
It’s nowhere near as effective as a meteor shower/tornado combo simple because it’s not aoe, and to get those numbers you would need to be max range with a LB which won’t happen all the time. You will still hit like a truck mind, rapid fire can get pretty high with that.
Yup, Meteor Shower is way stronger then AA + Piercing.
At best you can hit 3-4 people with Piercing, and even then, you prolly wont crit all 3-4 for max DPS.
And no you dont need to be at max range ever since the LB buff, but you have to play backline and if your frontline cannot defend the ranger properly, you will die. Your only “get out of jail card” is Signet of Stone. 6 seconds of invulnerability ,then you are done for. The build itself is ridiculously risky.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.
Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.
This was before ascended weapons and armors.
Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.
You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.
By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.
I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.
It’s nowhere near as effective as a meteor shower/tornado combo simple because it’s not aoe, and to get those numbers you would need to be max range with a LB which won’t happen all the time. You will still hit like a truck mind, rapid fire can get pretty high with that.
Yup, Meteor Shower is way stronger then AA + Piercing.
At best you can hit 3-4 people with Piercing, and even then, you prolly wont crit all 3-4 for max DPS.
And no you dont need to be at max range ever since the LB buff, but you have to play backline and if your frontline cannot defend the ranger properly, you will die. Your only “get out of jail card” is Signet of Stone. 6 seconds of invulnerability ,then you are done for. The build itself is ridiculously risky.
Meteor shower tornado has a super long cooldown though, 2 minutes if im correct, while meteor shower has a 30 second. While the bow has no cooldown, its an autoattack, which is why its so OP. If you can really consistently crit 5k and up with the attack if you have all the buffs, I think the bow easily wins. Especially on a melee group that is stacked tightly.
7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.
Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.
This was before ascended weapons and armors.
Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.
You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.
By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.
I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.
It’s nowhere near as effective as a meteor shower/tornado combo simple because it’s not aoe, and to get those numbers you would need to be max range with a LB which won’t happen all the time. You will still hit like a truck mind, rapid fire can get pretty high with that.
Yup, Meteor Shower is way stronger then AA + Piercing.
At best you can hit 3-4 people with Piercing, and even then, you prolly wont crit all 3-4 for max DPS.
And no you dont need to be at max range ever since the LB buff, but you have to play backline and if your frontline cannot defend the ranger properly, you will die. Your only “get out of jail card” is Signet of Stone. 6 seconds of invulnerability ,then you are done for. The build itself is ridiculously risky.Meteor shower tornado has a super long cooldown though, 2 minutes if im correct, while meteor shower has a 30 second. While the bow has no cooldown, its an autoattack, which is why its so OP. If you can really consistently crit 5k and up with the attack if you have all the buffs, I think the bow easily wins. Especially on a melee group that is stacked tightly.
And if you do pew pew auto attack with 5k crits against any guild you will just be the one that gets foccussed first and die in a matter of seconds:)
7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.
Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.
This was before ascended weapons and armors.
Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.
You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.
By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.
I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.
It’s nowhere near as effective as a meteor shower/tornado combo simple because it’s not aoe, and to get those numbers you would need to be max range with a LB which won’t happen all the time. You will still hit like a truck mind, rapid fire can get pretty high with that.
Yup, Meteor Shower is way stronger then AA + Piercing.
At best you can hit 3-4 people with Piercing, and even then, you prolly wont crit all 3-4 for max DPS.
And no you dont need to be at max range ever since the LB buff, but you have to play backline and if your frontline cannot defend the ranger properly, you will die. Your only “get out of jail card” is Signet of Stone. 6 seconds of invulnerability ,then you are done for. The build itself is ridiculously risky.
This is where you misunderstand. The front line’s job is not to protect the backline, it’s actually the other way around. Backliners are supposed to be entirely self sufficient and when in trouble need to run back to the frontline for heals and boons. You have to be really good which is why many NA guilds have so few backliners.
This is where the ranger fails. NO ONE will babysit a squishy backline ranger that can be shattered in one combo or 3 shot by a glass thief. Currently, mesmers, thieves staff eles are the periphery of choice because they can either drop targets or have many oh kitten buttons.
The ranger can’t match the utility and aoe dps of staff ele, or the survivability of thief and mesmer (even though good lb setups CAN do more damage than these 2), which is why you don’t see periphery rangers in this competitive environment.
Like i said, the build is risky. You can go for a more tanky spec with 20% less raw damage. It will murder enemy backlines without a problem, it can even do the trick on the frontline. However that build i will not share, as it is the one i currently use for guild raids.
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
20 rangers vs 20 warriors would probably end in the ranger’s favour simply due to fields and support. Sure ranger may not have the best support, but it’s better than a warrior’s simply because of healing spring. This is still a bad comparison however, you will never have 20 set classes going against another 20. Although if that were to happen, engi and ranger would probably fight for first place simply because they can do everything.
Non-Signet Rangers only have one native stability and it is on a LONG cool down. A pack of rangers is a dinner bell for Hammer warriors.
Warriors have WAY better support than Rangers… it isn’t even close. Shout warriors group heal, remove conditions, convert conditions to boons, have a MASSIVE amount of control, are effectively immune to immobilize, best passive healing in the game, banner group rez, stack might, they don’t have to stop for healing, come to the fight with over 30k HP and nearly 4k armor. Their sustained DPS is impressive as well. There is a reason the backbone of almost every group of players is the Warrior and Guardian.
Must be those 30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with Legendary armor and trinkets.
Aside from the 30kHP+4k armor and having a impressive sustained DPS, the rest is pretty much true.
Your standard Hammer/SwWh PVT, melandru runes + food, 10/0/30/30/0 healing shouts, with warhorn trait, fgj, shake it off, healing signet, battle standard, will do pretty much all of that. The damage is mediocre at best even with might stacks but the amount of group support and CC is phenomenal.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
(edited by Julie Yann.5379)
7k LB shot to the face, gotta love to see them run.
Pics/’tube vid or it never happened.
This was before ascended weapons and armors.
Ik the bow can hit kind of hard but I have a hard time believing this wasnt on a completely glass uplevel class.
You can spec fully into Cavaliers, albeit you wont hit 11k with LB AA then. Opening Strike has 100% crit chance, 10% damage from full endurance, 10% damage when flanking/hitting from behind, 10% Rune of Thief if flanking/hitting from back, +5% damage sigil on LB, together with signets adding 150% and 25% respectively, frost spirit is another 10%. LB trait adds another 5% damage.
By now, you should be able to hit 8-11k on LB AA. Mind you, the video showing such damage was made way way before LB buff. You should hit even a little bit harder now, but not all that much.
I was missing the signet. Thats pretty OP. lol. I dont know any other class thats autoattack can hit that hard. I think you’ve pretty much proven rangers arnt useless. I mean obviously youd have to sacrifice traps and youd be a ranged bot but still. If you have arrows piercing, 2-3 rangers could easily melt a zerg. Its easily more powerful than meteorshower/tornado with that damage.
It’s nowhere near as effective as a meteor shower/tornado combo simple because it’s not aoe, and to get those numbers you would need to be max range with a LB which won’t happen all the time. You will still hit like a truck mind, rapid fire can get pretty high with that.
Yup, Meteor Shower is way stronger then AA + Piercing.
At best you can hit 3-4 people with Piercing, and even then, you prolly wont crit all 3-4 for max DPS.
And no you dont need to be at max range ever since the LB buff, but you have to play backline and if your frontline cannot defend the ranger properly, you will die. Your only “get out of jail card” is Signet of Stone. 6 seconds of invulnerability ,then you are done for. The build itself is ridiculously risky.Meteor shower tornado has a super long cooldown though, 2 minutes if im correct, while meteor shower has a 30 second. While the bow has no cooldown, its an autoattack, which is why its so OP. If you can really consistently crit 5k and up with the attack if you have all the buffs, I think the bow easily wins. Especially on a melee group that is stacked tightly.
It’s risky and hard to play. If you want the maximum damage you will need to stand farther away, distancing yourself from your allies, making you an easier target. You also need to master aligning yourself to hit the most targets with the arrow penetration, which does take some practice. This build is good in theory, but only somebody who has experience on ranger and the build itself would be able to play it effectively.
It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.
20 rangers vs 20 warriors would probably end in the ranger’s favour simply due to fields and support. Sure ranger may not have the best support, but it’s better than a warrior’s simply because of healing spring. This is still a bad comparison however, you will never have 20 set classes going against another 20. Although if that were to happen, engi and ranger would probably fight for first place simply because they can do everything.
Non-Signet Rangers only have one native stability and it is on a LONG cool down. A pack of rangers is a dinner bell for Hammer warriors.
Warriors have WAY better support than Rangers… it isn’t even close. Shout warriors group heal, remove conditions, convert conditions to boons, have a MASSIVE amount of control, are effectively immune to immobilize, best passive healing in the game, banner group rez, stack might, they don’t have to stop for healing, come to the fight with over 30k HP and nearly 4k armor. Their sustained DPS is impressive as well. There is a reason the backbone of almost every group of players is the Warrior and Guardian.
Must be those 30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with Legendary armor and trinkets.
Aside from the 30kHP+4k armor and having a impressive sustained DPS, the rest is pretty much true.
Your standard Hammer/SwWh PVT, melandru runes + food, 10/0/30/30/0 healing shouts, with warhorn trait, fgj, shake it off, healing signet, battle standard, will do pretty much all of that. The damage is mediocre at best even with might stacks but the amount of group support and CC is phenomenal.
Not completely true. 30k HP and 4k armor is a massive overinvestment. Drop that armor by a full 800-850 toughness, invest it into Power/Precision/Crit Damage (no, not necessarily Berserker gear), and you’ll find that a traditional 10/0/30/30/0 shout war can do fairly impressive damage. I do agree with the rest, though.
Supreme Commander Boonprot, Lord Regent of the Portals
Boonprot 80 G
[Ark] Maguuma
Boonprot 80 G
[Ark] Maguuma
20 rangers vs 20 warriors would probably end in the ranger’s favour simply due to fields and support. Sure ranger may not have the best support, but it’s better than a warrior’s simply because of healing spring. This is still a bad comparison however, you will never have 20 set classes going against another 20. Although if that were to happen, engi and ranger would probably fight for first place simply because they can do everything.
Non-Signet Rangers only have one native stability and it is on a LONG cool down. A pack of rangers is a dinner bell for Hammer warriors.
Warriors have WAY better support than Rangers… it isn’t even close. Shout warriors group heal, remove conditions, convert conditions to boons, have a MASSIVE amount of control, are effectively immune to immobilize, best passive healing in the game, banner group rez, stack might, they don’t have to stop for healing, come to the fight with over 30k HP and nearly 4k armor. Their sustained DPS is impressive as well. There is a reason the backbone of almost every group of players is the Warrior and Guardian.
Must be those 30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with Legendary armor and trinkets.
Aside from the 30kHP+4k armor and having a impressive sustained DPS, the rest is pretty much true.
Your standard Hammer/SwWh PVT, melandru runes + food, 10/0/30/30/0 healing shouts, with warhorn trait, fgj, shake it off, healing signet, battle standard, will do pretty much all of that. The damage is mediocre at best even with might stacks but the amount of group support and CC is phenomenal.
Not completely true. 30k HP and 4k armor is a massive overinvestment. Drop that armor by a full 800-850 toughness, invest it into Power/Precision/Crit Damage (no, not necessarily Berserker gear), and you’ll find that a traditional 10/0/30/30/0 shout war can do fairly impressive damage. I do agree with the rest, though.
That’s what I meant, it’s impossible to have 30k HP, 4k toughness and have high DPS. Even if you swapped gear for more zerk you would not have what I would call impressive damage on a 10/0/30/30/0 build. Now if you went 10/0/30/0/30 and forget about healing shouts and warhorn trait you still get decent group support, awesome CC, and impressive damage with roughly 23k Hp 3.4k armor.
Back on topic. When you compare what Guardians, Warriors, Eles, Necros, Mesmers bring in terms of group utility (on short CD) and damage, Rangers have nothing to offer that we don’t already have in a better form.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
(edited by Julie Yann.5379)
20 rangers vs 20 warriors would probably end in the ranger’s favour simply due to fields and support. Sure ranger may not have the best support, but it’s better than a warrior’s simply because of healing spring. This is still a bad comparison however, you will never have 20 set classes going against another 20. Although if that were to happen, engi and ranger would probably fight for first place simply because they can do everything.
Non-Signet Rangers only have one native stability and it is on a LONG cool down. A pack of rangers is a dinner bell for Hammer warriors.
Warriors have WAY better support than Rangers… it isn’t even close. Shout warriors group heal, remove conditions, convert conditions to boons, have a MASSIVE amount of control, are effectively immune to immobilize, best passive healing in the game, banner group rez, stack might, they don’t have to stop for healing, come to the fight with over 30k HP and nearly 4k armor. Their sustained DPS is impressive as well. There is a reason the backbone of almost every group of players is the Warrior and Guardian.
Must be those 30/30/30/30/30 Warriors with Legendary armor and trinkets.
Aside from the 30kHP+4k armor and having a impressive sustained DPS, the rest is pretty much true.
Your standard Hammer/SwWh PVT, melandru runes + food, 10/0/30/30/0 healing shouts, with warhorn trait, fgj, shake it off, healing signet, battle standard, will do pretty much all of that. The damage is mediocre at best even with might stacks but the amount of group support and CC is phenomenal.
Not completely true. 30k HP and 4k armor is a massive overinvestment. Drop that armor by a full 800-850 toughness, invest it into Power/Precision/Crit Damage (no, not necessarily Berserker gear), and you’ll find that a traditional 10/0/30/30/0 shout war can do fairly impressive damage. I do agree with the rest, though.
That’s what I meant, it’s impossible to have 30k HP, 4k toughness and have high DPS. Even if you swapped gear for more zerk you would not have what I would call impressive damage on a 10/0/30/30/0 build. Now if you went 10/0/30/0/30 and forget about healing shouts and warhorn trait you still get decent group support, awesome CC, and impressive damage with roughly 23k Hp 3.4k armor.
Back on topic. When you compare what Guardians, Warriors, Eles, Necros, Mesmers bring in terms of group utility (on short CD) and damage, Rangers have nothing to offer that we don’t already have in a better form.
There’s a difference, though. A 10/0/30/0/30 build is DPS, whereas 10/0/30/30/0 is a support build. You can get significant damage from a shout war, but you have to be willing to optimize your gear for it. The two also play fundamentally different roles within the zerg. Obviously, the damage will be less than a DPS build.
Edit: I suppose I should add an on-topic bit, too.
Rangers are meant for small-man, not 15+. I don’t actually see anything inherently wrong with certain classes being stronger than others in different aspects of the game. To me, that’s diversity, although I’m an altaholic so I’m biased. Keep a class where its strengths lie.
Supreme Commander Boonprot, Lord Regent of the Portals
Boonprot 80 G
[Ark] Maguuma
Boonprot 80 G
[Ark] Maguuma
to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!
please remain on-topic, thanks!
No, it’s not. But it’s because MOST rangers don’t know those nuances that MOST rangers actually suck. Which is why guilds don’t like them. I don’t think any good guild would be opposed to a player going ranger if he can actually prove them he’s useful in their guild as a ranger. And rangers can assuredly be useful…not the same way a warrior is, not the same way a guardian, necro are. But in its own way.
So there, you have your answer.
People simply keep underestimating what rangers has. They think any profession can do whatever the ranger can better, yet much of that is biased hearsay and ignorance. They say warriors have better HPS, even though rangers can get nearly twice as much even if BOTH specialize for passive HPS.
They say warriors can apply better immob, yet all but three warrior attacks apply immobilize, two of them is dependent on a trait that grants merely 1 second.
They say necromancers is better, yet the necromancer melts faster even with full DS.
They say mesmers can do more DPS, yet in a zergball, mesmers only seem to be wanted aslong as they have portal and veil/nullfield. And if they don’t. Their often told to take those utilities or GTFO. How nice.
They say Eles do more DPS, yet the first professions to die is the ele. Funny how the “best DPS” profession is also the “best rallybot profession”.
This is ofc, speaking from a zerg standpoint. In roaming, a ranger, thief, mesmer or ele usually do not die unless they screw up. And yes, there is Roaming Rangers that don’t run bearbow. Don’t believe it? Believe it!
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
People simply keep underestimating what rangers has. They think any profession can do whatever the ranger can better, yet much of that is biased hearsay and ignorance. They say warriors have better HPS, even though rangers can get nearly twice as much even if BOTH specialize for passive HPS.
They say warriors can apply better immob, yet all but three warrior attacks apply immobilize, two of them is dependent on a trait that grants merely 1 second.
They say necromancers is better, yet the necromancer melts faster even with full DS.
They say mesmers can do more DPS, yet in a zergball, mesmers only seem to be wanted aslong as they have portal and veil/nullfield. And if they don’t. Their often told to take those utilities or GTFO. How nice.
They say Eles do more DPS, yet the first professions to die is the ele. Funny how the “best DPS” profession is also the “best rallybot profession”.This is ofc, speaking from a zerg standpoint. In roaming, a ranger, thief, mesmer or ele usually do not die unless they screw up. And yes, there is Roaming Rangers that don’t run bearbow. Don’t believe it? Believe it!
More damage than necro, elementalist and more spike than mesmer while tankier than warriors? Roams as good as thief and can’t die unless the ranger screws up?
Don’t believe it.
Gate of Madness
Having range is useless if you can’t keep the enemy away. You shoot 2-3 shots and the bad guy will be in your face. The ranger’s melee weapon (I consider it a secondary) is no match against a lot of the other melee classes.
You would have to spec to have a few immobilization skills, but those only allow you to get an extra 1, maybe 2 hits before the bad guy comes at you again or breaks immobilization.
I play as a ranger. In small roaming groups, I rely on my teammates to keep bad guys away from me, and that is pretty bad. In zergs, I just pop an arrow barrage and use lightning dash to GTFO… then try to target soft targets like necros and ele (and strangely, some guardians)…. then pop arrow barrage and repeat. Pop an occasional healing spring.
Or I try to pew pew from the walls..
Honestly, it is a low skill class for the average player (thats me)… and you have to work extra hard to even be as good as the higher tier classes.
YES! Rangers need to be fast (faster than a 300 pound warrior you think?) and our range weapons need to have freaking range.
“The Leaf on Wind”
JQ Ranger
JQ Ranger
Rangers are simply handicapped. Everything they can do well depends on utility slots which locks them into being able to do one thing only. You can CC if you take traps, you can support if you take spirits, you can DPS if you take signets, but you can’t even attempt to combine those things without ruining all of it.
There’s no role that a ranger can perform well either. You may be able to get some impressive looking stats but the coefficients on your skills are just insulting. The auto-chain for greatsword hits for 0.55*3, 0.55*3, 0.65*3, compare to guardian greatsword at 0.8*3, 0.8*3, 1.2*3 or warrior hammer at an astonishing 0.9*3, 0.9*3, 1.2*5. At the same effective power a warrior can do more than twice as much damage to a group than a ranger. There’s no overcoming such a massive deficit, ranger cannot bring enough utility to compensate for such poor damage.
It’s not much better when you look at backline roles either. The only useful trick they can do is some aoe cripples and immobilises, which are already in plentiful supply from the frontliners. You could try to use it as counter-periph, but while you have the damage you’re vulnerable to reflects from eles and lack the aoe stealth that mesmers and thieves can use to keep their own backliners safe.
At the end of the day, no gvg team needs a class that can do many things poorly when it can just use good group composition to do everything well.
People simply keep underestimating what rangers has. They think any profession can do whatever the ranger can better, yet much of that is biased hearsay and ignorance. They say warriors have better HPS, even though rangers can get nearly twice as much even if BOTH specialize for passive HPS.
They say warriors can apply better immob, yet all but three warrior attacks apply immobilize, two of them is dependent on a trait that grants merely 1 second.
They say necromancers is better, yet the necromancer melts faster even with full DS.
They say mesmers can do more DPS, yet in a zergball, mesmers only seem to be wanted aslong as they have portal and veil/nullfield. And if they don’t. Their often told to take those utilities or GTFO. How nice.
They say Eles do more DPS, yet the first professions to die is the ele. Funny how the “best DPS” profession is also the “best rallybot profession”.This is ofc, speaking from a zerg standpoint. In roaming, a ranger, thief, mesmer or ele usually do not die unless they screw up. And yes, there is Roaming Rangers that don’t run bearbow. Don’t believe it? Believe it!
Warriors are there for their abundance of CC and melee damage not HPS.
Guardians are there for Stability, Various Boons, and CC
Necros can go pure Damage and still live
Eles are there for fire and water fields to blast and CC
Mesmers are viel bots with nul fields (I kind of feel sorry for them)
Thieves are great for roaming or sneaking into the backline and taking out Eles and Necros.
Engis can bring a lot of CC and conditions as well but lack mobility and stability to be effective frontline.
The main reason Rangers are hated in WvW is that the class attracts so many bad players that don’t know how to position themselves, manage a pet, or do anything but pew pew with their long bow and die. Rangers are usually the first to die for those reasons.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!
please remain on-topic, thanks!
No, it’s not. But it’s because MOST rangers don’t know those nuances that MOST rangers actually suck. Which is why guilds don’t like them. I don’t think any good guild would be opposed to a player going ranger if he can actually prove them he’s useful in their guild as a ranger. And rangers can assuredly be useful…not the same way a warrior is, not the same way a guardian, necro are. But in its own way.
So there, you have your answer.
I didn’t ask the question I just repeated it to steer us back on topic. I and many others have already established why rangers are outperformed in every aspect of gvg and gvz by every other prof except maybe engie, assuming equal skill and good builds.
You can prove yourself and be the best ranger you can be. This is what I’m actually assuming when making my judgment. The results pale in comparison to what other profs can do.
The main reason Rangers are hated in WvW is that the class attracts so many bad players that don’t know how to position themselves, manage a pet, or do anything but pew pew with their long bow and die. Rangers are usually the first to die for those reasons.
There is also a reason that good players don’t bring out their Rangers, the class just isn’t good. By the time anyone becomes good they realize there are greener pastures.
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
(edited by Warlord.9074)
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
True but Warrior CC works well in conjunction with other classes CC. My Hammer build has unsuspecting foe, when my guardian pulls, I ES over top of whoever got pull for 3 second stun and an automatic crit, followed by 2 crit autoattacks, swap to Swrod Warhorn (withsigil of hydromancy) and have enough adrenaline for a short flurry. Whoever gets pulled by my Guardian is down, every time. We keep pushing, we see the enemy zerg trying to stack for a reset, savage leap in, swap to hammer, staggering blow to keep them from resetting. All while our back line is laying AoE, combo fields that we blast with Warhorn 5 and earthshaker, and more CC. Then we get the stragglers, savageleap and hammer 3, ES to keep them in combat and with range of our eles and nercos. Don’t kid yourself, warrior brings a lot of CC on short CD and 2 blast finishers on short CD and they are also able of keep pressure on the enemy to keep them for healing and mighting up. What makes it so good is that all our skills synergize well with other classes unlike the Ranger skills.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
(edited by Julie Yann.5379)
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
It’s not just earthshaker that is CC. Warriors have hammer F1, 3, 4, 5 as well as flurry on sword and cripple on 2. All are a mix of hard and soft CC. Also having played a trap ranger in zergs, I can assure you without max condi duration, the soft CC you get from traps really doesn’t do much, especially when you have a melee train running minus condi duration food, with warrior’s warhorn cleansing soft CC, it just doesn’t work. That’s the main reason I ditched traps, without maximum condi duration soft CC isn’t effective.
It is not what you do, but how and why you do it that counts.
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
It’s not just earthshaker that is CC. Warriors have hammer F1, 3, 4, 5 as well as flurry on sword and cripple on 2. All are a mix of hard and soft CC. Also having played a trap ranger in zergs, I can assure you without max condi duration, the soft CC you get from traps really doesn’t do much, especially when you have a melee train running minus condi duration food, with warrior’s warhorn cleansing soft CC, it just doesn’t work. That’s the main reason I ditched traps, without maximum condi duration soft CC isn’t effective.
Now that brings us to a 360 to the very 1st point I made in this thread.
Because most rangers I have came across have play styles and builds that are either not beneficial to anyone but themselves or their play style and builds are not beneficial to anyone including themselves. Why because this profession attracts players who want to hide behind pets and pew pew. While not everyone who is attracted by this profession has that mentality the majority of them do. And that play style doesn’t work to good in most aspects of the game including some PVE.
The funny thing about what you said is your under the assumption that warriors run the builds they do becasue they are fun. Let me be 100% clear with you warriors run what they do in zergs because it is effective that is it. Not becasue it is fun. Rangers and other professions have the oppertunity to be effective and chose not to be. Then complain that warriors are over powered and preferred.
This is targeted at thiefs as well a lot of people say thiefs suck in zergs but I have seen venom sharing at its max potential before by putting 1 venom share thief per party in a 30 man zerf before and the results were devastating. I have also seen multiple rangers in back lines running traps with condi duration slow a zerg to a crawl and at the very least separate the frontline from the back line and cleared the way for the enemy backline to get run over and destroyed making the rest of the fight simple.
You guys simply rather play how you want than to be effective then QQ that no one wants you in zergs and people only want warriors who make pretty big sacrifices to run boring shout hammer builds with warhorns because that is effective in a zerg.
The tactic is simply called derail and TSYM a guild used it very effectively to beat RG and others who coppied RGs strats. Where they used Rangers, traps eles chills, walls boon stripping and everything and threw it out in front of pain trains.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
(edited by Warlord.9074)
OP, if you want to play a Ranger, get comfortable with roaming, ignore all haters/critiques and really get comfortable in 1v1 / 1v2s.
Ranger class can be a lot of fun with 1v1 / 1v2s (Don’t run bow and bear). Contrary to popular belief rangers can be good solo’ers.
to steer us back on topic, away from fantasy and laboratory type testing environments where your target remains still without dodges, blocks, protection, etc., i will repeat the original question – why do WvW guilds hate rangers? *hint: it’s not because the leaders of these guilds are unaware of amazing and effective prof nuances known only to a handful of elite rangers!
please remain on-topic, thanks!
No, it’s not. But it’s because MOST rangers don’t know those nuances that MOST rangers actually suck. Which is why guilds don’t like them. I don’t think any good guild would be opposed to a player going ranger if he can actually prove them he’s useful in their guild as a ranger. And rangers can assuredly be useful…not the same way a warrior is, not the same way a guardian, necro are. But in its own way.
So there, you have your answer.I didn’t ask the question I just repeated it to steer us back on topic. I and many others have already established why rangers are outperformed in every aspect of gvg and gvz by every other prof except maybe engie, assuming equal skill and good builds.
You can prove yourself and be the best ranger you can be. This is what I’m actually assuming when making my judgment. The results pale in comparison to what other profs can do.
Well then if you have “established” it, please grant us your superb logic in doing so ?
You are a fool by underestimating a whole profession when you clearly don’t play it yourself. Again, no other profession comes close to ranger when it comes to immobilizing/crippling the enemies. But please, enlighten us with your godly knowledge !
For the record, i run spike trap + signet of the wild + muddy terrain + entangle with condi duration runes. I apply 3 sec of cripple with both spike trap and muddy terrain. Both of those also immobilize those that are in it. Spike trap and Entangle are unblockable. Entangle immobilizes a lot of enemies, even if they do remove it fast, it separates them from their zerg/group/whatever you want to call it. And that’s when the warriors can stun them and everyone kills them.
This is a very good thing as, if they ran away, you would have had much more trouble killing them when they came back. I don’t know what guild you are in, or what server you play on…but if you don’t care about immobilize/chill/cripple…then you are pretty much making a fool of yourself on this thread, buddy.
edit: here’s a build, in case you’re wondering.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNAR3XjEVx1JWOWo2Bg1DCzbwmCOtkpwQHP5WNqF-jkDBofRGDEggAiGAgABO1sIaslght+aIa6aYKXCyaXIqXomzR2geIrSBAxCA-w
I usually don’t use the + 40% condi food but i put it in just to show you what we can do. 4 sec of cripple instead of the 3 i usually get… and don’t forget the immobilize, the chill/immobilize from the pets and the fact that we actually do some pretty good damage with GS (maul does around 5k crits) and the axe pull is awesome as well.
(edited by Fenrir.6183)
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
It’s not just earthshaker that is CC. Warriors have hammer F1, 3, 4, 5 as well as flurry on sword and cripple on 2. All are a mix of hard and soft CC. Also having played a trap ranger in zergs, I can assure you without max condi duration, the soft CC you get from traps really doesn’t do much, especially when you have a melee train running minus condi duration food, with warrior’s warhorn cleansing soft CC, it just doesn’t work. That’s the main reason I ditched traps, without maximum condi duration soft CC isn’t effective.
The food is only minus 40%. With my current build, i get 50%, if i add the + 40% food to negate the minus food it means it’s still 50%. Which means 3s of cripple/immobilize. And yeah, there are warriors shouting. That removes 1 to 2 conditions… Traps / muddy terrain / entangle apply 2 (immobilize + cripple, bleeding for spike). So each warrior which usually only has 2 shouts (to still retain stability+stun break) can’t remove the condi put up by a ranger. It’s simple… 1 vs 1. You can’t consider a whole zerg against ONE ranger. If you have several rangers running my build, your warriors won’t be able to remove all those conditions. Also, if they do, they’ll still have the necros/other classes conditions such as bleeding, poison, burning, torment, confusion, etc.
What’s even more important is the time your opponents lose by being immobilized. Even if it’s a second or less, they’ll lose valuable time where their commander still runs and end up being a bit late => means they can be killed more easily.
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
It’s not just earthshaker that is CC. Warriors have hammer F1, 3, 4, 5 as well as flurry on sword and cripple on 2. All are a mix of hard and soft CC. Also having played a trap ranger in zergs, I can assure you without max condi duration, the soft CC you get from traps really doesn’t do much, especially when you have a melee train running minus condi duration food, with warrior’s warhorn cleansing soft CC, it just doesn’t work. That’s the main reason I ditched traps, without maximum condi duration soft CC isn’t effective.
The food is only minus 40%. With my current build, i get 50%, if i add the + 40% food to negate the minus food it means it’s still 50%. Which means 3s of cripple/immobilize. And yeah, there are warriors shouting. That removes 1 to 2 conditions… Traps / muddy terrain / entangle apply 2 (immobilize + cripple, bleeding for spike). So each warrior which usually only has 2 shouts (to still retain stability+stun break) can’t remove the condi put up by a ranger. It’s simple… 1 vs 1. You can’t consider a whole zerg against ONE ranger. If you have several rangers running my build, your warriors won’t be able to remove all those conditions. Also, if they do, they’ll still have the necros/other classes conditions such as bleeding, poison, burning, torment, confusion, etc.
What’s even more important is the time your opponents lose by being immobilized. Even if it’s a second or less, they’ll lose valuable time where their commander still runs and end up being a bit late => means they can be killed more easily.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Charge_
It just sounds like you haven’t actually experienced any other class, which of course means you can’t compare objectively.
[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]
(edited by Ragnar.4257)
So ? Is that your only answer ? lol…
I didn’t know charge was an automatically cast skill that was used when a ranger applied cripple. You dismissed most of my point being that you want to make them lose time so they get cut from their group. Way to go, internet troll !
Also, not all warriors have their warhorns ready all the time, i do believe most of them also use a hammer for that “GREAT DPS” i keep hearing about. Weapon swap has a cooldown, you know. The skills i talked about are available no matter what weapon set you use.
There you go:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Weapon_swap
(edited by Fenrir.6183)
So ? Is that your only answer ? lol…
I didn’t know charge was an automatically cast skill that was used when a ranger applied cripple. You dismissed most of my point being that you want to make them lose time so they get cut from their group. Way to go, internet troll !
Your point was that the warriors can’t cleanse all the immob/cripple because shouts only remove 1 or 2 conditions, and there will naturally be more conditions flying around than that.
MY point is that this is not true, because Charge specifically targets immob/cripple/chill conditions, meaning your point about “condition overload” is void.
Warriors also have reduced cooldown on weapon swap. Just saying.
As you say, “Way to go”.
[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]
(edited by Ragnar.4257)
I play a warrior, dude… shout build with hammer/sword warhorn. I know the class, and it’s true i didn’t mention the warhorn skill because it truly isn’t always available whereas the slot skills are whatever weapon you’re using. So yeah, they could end up removing them all, it still does not mean they will do it INSTANTLY. In fact, they don’t. They have to see it, there’s no way to prevent immobilization before seeing it. Rangers also have 2 pets and both can apply immobilize or chill for instance. Sure, that’s nowhere near as reliable as the utility skills but still factors in.
Also, usually those skills are used when the opponents have already used their stability.
I guess that in optimal dream theory, the warriors would remove them right away and it would have no effect. However, i have found that those skills greatly help and effectively cuts enemy tails / prevents enemies from getting to a point easily.
Are we talking about the game or just theorycrafting ? I’m talking about game experience on wvw in a T1 server here, not just throwing ideas around. I’ve played on that server since day one and mostly do wvw.
I have a 80 warrior, 80 ranger and 80 thief which i all played in wvw and i’m also leveling a guardian and a necromancer right now. I do agree i don’t know 100% of every class…but then again, not a lot of people do. I, however, know the ranger very well.
(edited by Fenrir.6183)
I play a warrior, dude… shout build with hammer/sword warhorn. I know the class, and it’s true i didn’t mention the warhorn skill because it truly isn’t always available whereas the slot skills are whatever weapon you’re using. So yeah, they could end up removing them all, it still does not mean they will do it INSTANTLY. In fact, they don’t. They have to see it, there’s no way to prevent immobilization before seeing it. Rangers also have 2 pets and both can apply immobilize or chill for instance. Sure, that’s nowhere near as reliable as the utility skills but still factors in.
Also, usually those skills are used when the opponents have already used their stability.
I guess that in optimal dream theory, the warriors would remove them right away and it would have no effect. However, i have found that those skills greatly help and effectively cuts enemy tails / prevents enemies from getting to a point easily.
Are we talking about the game or just theorycrafting ? I’m talking about game experience on wvw in a T1 server here, not just throwing ideas around. I’ve played on that server since day one and mostly do wvw.
I have a 80 warrior, 80 ranger and 80 thief which i all played in wvw and i’m also leveling a guardian and a necromancer right now. I do agree i don’t know 100% of every class…but then again, not a lot of people do. I, however, know the ranger very well.
Look, I’m not saying Rangers can’t contribute anything. Obviously, dropping traps to split an enemy group is useful.
The point is whether it is more useful than what other classes bring. With 2 traps, and if you can keep your pets alive, then yes you can match the CC of other classes. However, pets are not reliable, and giving up 2 utility slots for those traps means you are now at a significant disadvantage compared to other classes when it comes to survival and group-support.
Again, the point is not whether Rangers can ever do anything useful. The point is whether they can match the utility of other classes.
As to the second half of your post….. nobody cares. T1 server proves nothing at all, the fact that you even mention it raises questions. You have 3 level 80s in WvW? That’s great, I have 9. What of it?
[Scnd][TA][Dius][aX]
Not 2 traps, 1 trap, muddy terrain and entangle, axe pull and also a trait that means any opponent with less than 50% life you hit gets crippled. That’s pretty good imo.
And a ranger with this build is pretty resilient, has access to stability, can block and evade through GS skills.
In my opinion it does match the utility of other classes…i would not say it is better than other classes, and obviously you are going to want a number of guardians and warriors. But in my opinion having several rangers with this build does provide a plus for your group. That’s all i’ve been trying to expose here.
And yeah, i was merely speaking of my characters to say i have played other classes in wvw at lvl 80 knowing them and not just ranger. Anyone can have all the classes at 80, if you don’t play them in wvw, it’s not relevant.
So ? Is that your only answer ? lol…
I didn’t know charge was an automatically cast skill that was used when a ranger applied cripple. You dismissed most of my point being that you want to make them lose time so they get cut from their group. Way to go, internet troll !Your point was that the warriors can’t cleanse all the immob/cripple because shouts only remove 1 or 2 conditions, and there will naturally be more conditions flying around than that.
MY point is that this is not true, because Charge specifically targets immob/cripple/chill conditions, meaning your point is void.
Warriors also have reduced cooldown on weapon swap. Just saying.
As you say, “Way to go”.
lol… hammer shout warriors, the oldest most boring warrior build available. Between Cleansing Ire, Melandru+Food, and Warhorn easy access to stability warriors have absolutely nothing to fear from CC, no need for shouts anymore.
Be careful what you wish for, Anet might just give it to you “HoT”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.
Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.
People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.
No…Just no on Frost Trap, Spike Trap and Entangle being better CC against an Enemy Zerg
Frost Trap will flat out be instantly ignored by most if not all of the people in the zerg, Spike Trap will be instantly cleared.. and I mean Instantly, and Entangle if you can get close enough to use it will also be instantly killed
How you have 3k hours on a Hammer Warrior, and not know this i’ll never guess
Have you never actually seen a Zerg Train? do you not understand the concept of Cleaving? Conditions are utterly useless against Zerg Trains, Its why they’re all running in a bloody ball swinging their weapon while wearing PvT gear… Because it works….
http://www.youtube.com/user/Xsorus/videos?view=0
Xsorus – Ranger PvP movies Creator of the BM Bunker
Xsorus – Ranger PvP movies Creator of the BM Bunker
It’s been explained a million times. Anything a ranger can do another class can do better.
- Do tell me what other class can comfortably go full offensive stats on gear and deliver damage spikes from 1500 range.
Engineer. And it’s AOE and with a ton of conditions including movement impairing ones. It’s probably the best medium class for zerg fights.
Disgruntled Charr Engineer and Thief – Jade Quarry.
(edited by MrForz.1953)
Not 2 traps, 1 trap, muddy terrain and entangle, axe pull and also a trait that means any opponent with less than 50% life you hit gets crippled. That’s pretty good imo.
And a ranger with this build is pretty resilient, has access to stability, can block and evade through GS skills.
In my opinion it does match the utility of other classes…i would not say it is better than other classes, and obviously you are going to want a number of guardians and warriors. But in my opinion having several rangers with this build does provide a plus for your group. That’s all i’ve been trying to expose here.And yeah, i was merely speaking of my characters to say i have played other classes in wvw at lvl 80 knowing them and not just ranger. Anyone can have all the classes at 80, if you don’t play them in wvw, it’s not relevant.
I guess there are still rangers out there grasping at straws…..or maybe they just like to argue the underdog status….and my main was a ranger….
I have played all classes in WvW to 80…
The truth is….when it comes to medium to large group fights and people need to perform certain roles…there will always been certain classes that shine above others in filling those roles.
As everyone said before…ranger depending on build can probably fill a variety of those roles….but unfortunately not as well as others in med/large group comp..it’s just the way it is lol
Altho, roaming and spvp can be quite fun!
If I am limited to 15 people for a gvg and i’m trying to make the best group possible….unfortunately ranger will not be one of the classes…
Dragonbrand
Underwater Operations – [WET]
Underwater Operations – [WET]
Not 2 traps, 1 trap, muddy terrain and entangle, axe pull and also a trait that means any opponent with less than 50% life you hit gets crippled. That’s pretty good imo.
And a ranger with this build is pretty resilient, has access to stability, can block and evade through GS skills.
In my opinion it does match the utility of other classes…i would not say it is better than other classes, and obviously you are going to want a number of guardians and warriors. But in my opinion having several rangers with this build does provide a plus for your group. That’s all i’ve been trying to expose here.And yeah, i was merely speaking of my characters to say i have played other classes in wvw at lvl 80 knowing them and not just ranger. Anyone can have all the classes at 80, if you don’t play them in wvw, it’s not relevant.
I guess there are still rangers out there grasping at straws…..or maybe they just like to argue the underdog status….and my main was a ranger….
I have played all classes in WvW to 80…
The truth is….when it comes to medium to large group fights and people need to perform certain roles…there will always been certain classes that shine above others in filling those roles.
As everyone said before…ranger depending on build can probably fill a variety of those roles….but unfortunately not as well as others in med/large group comp..it’s just the way it is lol
Altho, roaming and spvp can be quite fun!
If I am limited to 15 people for a gvg and i’m trying to make the best group possible….unfortunately ranger will not be one of the classes…
My sentiments exactly. My Ranger is/was by far my main and class I am most comfortable playing. It is a Jack-of-all-trades class that loses its effectiveness in groups larger than 10 players (again IMO) as the group makeup can include specialists for CC and specialists for damage, with the ranger unable to keep up with either.
Since I began playing the warrior in WvW, I’ve come to realize how much more effective it is. On paper the Ranger has more CC, but in reality I have caught way more people with well timed Earthshakers. Only unprepared players are every truly caught by Ranger CC, and now I predominantly play my ranger in PvP.
Would I like rangers to be better? kitten yes. I love my ranger.
Member of [CLAV] on Crystal Desert
I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.
Warrior control is the some of the best control because it is often on a very short timer. Zerg built warriors typically spam Earthshaker every 7s. They also deal consistent AoE damage and trigger sigils unlike utility skills. They have other control skills based on build such as Stomp or Fear Me. With 3 warriors, control should be dished out every second.
Entangle is a near pointless ability in group combat. It is easily avoided, blocked or removed via condition removal. Both Frost and Spike are soft control that are also easily removed via condition removal. Oddly using either on a warrior will likely give them a free regen.
Sarcasm For Hire [SFH]
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
“Youre lips are movin and youre complaining about something thats wingeing.”
Most of this discussion can boil down to "But warrior can counter you with skill “A, B, C, D, E, F, G”.
Ok, here’s one for you all. Normally when you run in a zerg, each profession perform their own task. Warrior CC is in 99% of instances easy to negate. Why? Because really do you think the enemy do not have warriors too that uses SwWh? If you think so, you are an idiot. It is proven beyond a doubt that ALL servers spam warriors and guards like there is no tomorrow. So Warrior cancels out warrior. Skill is irrelevant in zergs anyway.
In the end, what you want to do is CHAIN your CC. Now a warrior does this naturally, thanks to the design of the profession. Hats off to Anet for making it so smooth. The guardian also does do some mentionable CC or rather Area Denial (RoW, LoW).
However, neither of these professions, even with max condi duration produce anything by mediocre effects on 1 skill (flurry is a cleave, not a AOE. In zergs you want AOE, not single target w/cleave effect). Ill give guardians a slight +1 over warriors as they can apply heavy chill and immobilize at once, albeit, at longer cooldown.
Yet, whatever proper AOE CC these two professions dish out, CAN BE OUTDONE BY ONE RANGER PET.
You say pet dies in Zergs, yes they do, if you run right into the enemy melee train. So yes you have to do some positioning. Generally, if you keep your pet hidden and just avoid the whole melee train your pet will survive long enough to use it’s skill(s).
Lv 80 Guard, Ranger, Ele, Thief, warr, engi
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Currently @ some T1 server in EU
Well, last time I checked, my pet went full kitten and fails to cast skills 1/2 the time or has a 1 second cast time so it can be annoying to get the best use of it at times, then has 30-45 second cool down… vs spamming hammer stuns ever 7 seconds or so in an area I designate, plus what ever utilities I want to bring… essentially immediately.
If the pets I like to use were insta-cast, I wouldn’t have anything to complain about, but most are not.
Member of [CLAV] on Crystal Desert