Guild Wars 2

I used to shoot arrow in the knee of enemy commanders, worked well !

Warlord.9074:

warriorjrd.8695:

Warlord.9074:

I love how people keep saying hammer warrior is there for CC. When most CC is done by other professions through ranged aoe. I have almost 3000 hours on a warrior and can tell you that Ranger Front trap, Spike Trap with ground targeting and entagle are way more effective at CC an enemy zerg than anything warrior has.

Further more Static field, frozen ground on an Ele way better than what the hammer does.

Gurdian Walls anyone Spectral wall much better.

People who think warrior CC is best at CCing enemy zergs are just simply don’t know about what other professions can do.

It’s not just earthshaker that is CC. Warriors have hammer F1, 3, 4, 5 as well as flurry on sword and cripple on 2. All are a mix of hard and soft CC. Also having played a trap ranger in zergs, I can assure you without max condi duration, the soft CC you get from traps really doesn’t do much, especially when you have a melee train running minus condi duration food, with warrior’s warhorn cleansing soft CC, it just doesn’t work. That’s the main reason I ditched traps, without maximum condi duration soft CC isn’t effective.

Now that brings us to a 360 to the very 1st point I made in this thread.

Because most rangers I have came across have play styles and builds that are either not beneficial to anyone but themselves or their play style and builds are not beneficial to anyone including themselves. Why because this profession attracts players who want to hide behind pets and pew pew. While not everyone who is attracted by this profession has that mentality the majority of them do. And that play style doesn’t work to good in most aspects of the game including some PVE.

The funny thing about what you said is your under the assumption that warriors run the builds they do becasue they are fun. Let me be 100% clear with you warriors run what they do in zergs because it is effective that is it. Not becasue it is fun. Rangers and other professions have the oppertunity to be effective and chose not to be. Then complain that warriors are over powered and preferred.

This is targeted at thiefs as well a lot of people say thiefs suck in zergs but I have seen venom sharing at its max potential before by putting 1 venom share thief per party in a 30 man zerf before and the results were devastating. I have also seen multiple rangers in back lines running traps with condi duration slow a zerg to a crawl and at the very least separate the frontline from the back line and cleared the way for the enemy backline to get run over and destroyed making the rest of the fight simple.

You guys simply rather play how you want than to be effective then QQ that no one wants you in zergs and people only want warriors who make pretty big sacrifices to run boring shout hammer builds with warhorns because that is effective in a zerg.

The tactic is simply called derail and TSYM a guild used it very effectively to beat RG and others who coppied RGs strats. Where they used Rangers, traps eles chills, walls boon stripping and everything and threw it out in front of pain trains.

Dude i’ve got 2500 hours on a ranger, I was simply saying warriors DO have a lot of CC

Prysin.8542:

In the end, what you want to do is CHAIN your CC. Now a warrior does this naturally, thanks to the design of the profession. Hats off to Anet for making it so smooth. The guardian also does do some mentionable CC or rather Area Denial (RoW, LoW).
However, neither of these professions, even with max condi duration produce anything by mediocre effects on 1 skill (flurry is a cleave, not a AOE. In zergs you want AOE, not single target w/cleave effect). Ill give guardians a slight +1 over warriors as they can apply heavy chill and immobilize at once, albeit, at longer cooldown.
Yet, whatever proper AOE CC these two professions dish out, CAN BE OUTDONE BY ONE RANGER PET.
You say pet dies in Zergs, yes they do, if you run right into the enemy melee train. So yes you have to do some positioning. Generally, if you keep your pet hidden and just avoid the whole melee train your pet will survive long enough to use it’s skill(s).

The base warrior hammer attack chain is a cleave (3 target), cleave (3 target), AoE (5 target). It doesn’t consistently hit as many targets as a guardian staff, but it usually does more damage. That warrior hammer also comes with a 5 target knockdown, 3 target weaken, a 5 target cripple, an AoE knockback and a single target knockdown. Almost every attack is on a very short cool down as well. The weapon set is near perfect for large scale fights especially give it comes with both a blast and whirl finisher on one weapon in addition to the control.

This is only one component that makes warriors a good fit for group play. Can warriors be offset by other warriors, sure but that is why bigger numbers and superior organization is a major factor in large scale group play. I do know this, come to a big fight without warriors and success would be extremely difficult. That certainly cannot be said for Rangers.

As for the pet even if they survive all the AoE, getting their pet to stop licking its privates long enough to actually use its skill is difficult. There is up to a five second delay on pet skill activation making precision nearly impossible.

Prysin.8542:

Most of this discussion can boil down to "But warrior can counter you with skill “A, B, C, D, E, F, G”.

Ok, here’s one for you all. Normally when you run in a zerg, each profession perform their own task. Warrior CC is in 99% of instances easy to negate. Why? Because really do you think the enemy do not have warriors too that uses SwWh? If you think so, you are an idiot. It is proven beyond a doubt that ALL servers spam warriors and guards like there is no tomorrow. So Warrior cancels out warrior. Skill is irrelevant in zergs anyway.

In the end, what you want to do is CHAIN your CC. Now a warrior does this naturally, thanks to the design of the profession. Hats off to Anet for making it so smooth. The guardian also does do some mentionable CC or rather Area Denial (RoW, LoW).
However, neither of these professions, even with max condi duration produce anything by mediocre effects on 1 skill (flurry is a cleave, not a AOE. In zergs you want AOE, not single target w/cleave effect). Ill give guardians a slight +1 over warriors as they can apply heavy chill and immobilize at once, albeit, at longer cooldown.
Yet, whatever proper AOE CC these two professions dish out, CAN BE OUTDONE BY ONE RANGER PET.
You say pet dies in Zergs, yes they do, if you run right into the enemy melee train. So yes you have to do some positioning. Generally, if you keep your pet hidden and just avoid the whole melee train your pet will survive long enough to use it’s skill(s).

you are either very deluded or very inexperienced with other professions or going up against them. guardians and warriors have vastly superior hard CC, in addition to spammable soft CC (immobilize cones). ele is up there as well. this is why theyre better.

pet CC is mediocre at best. the problem isnt actually survivability because you can get around that by timing your signets and pet swaps. the problem is F2 cast time. canines are by far most reliable for larger fights.

the fact that you talk about stacking condition duration points to how inexperienced you are in this type of gameplay. conditions simply dont stick to a good melee train for longer than 0.5-1s. warriors are virtually immune to immobilize, so any hammer train or guardian train will literally run you over. you can survive with good positioning, but your soft CC will contribute nothing and you wont be doing any significant damage, independent of spec.

regardless of that, the ranger simply doesnt have the sustain for drawn out Gvg/GvZ fights in which youre either greatly outnumbered, or challenged.

again, in this discussion, we’re asking “how can any responsible raid leader justify a slot for the ranger?” we’re not concerned about “partial” effectiveness, only absolute. this is min-maxing. raids and gvg’s are min-maxed. sorry, but it’s true.

Point-Blank Shot

Chris.3290:

Point-Blank Shot

I wish I was able to jump through the screen and kick any ranger that uses that skill in the junk. It is the reason why I auto kick any LB ranger from my party when doing PvE stuff.

Rangers can be great roaming 1v1.
Better choices in small group play but aren’t terrible.
They are generally bad in zergs.

Since WvW guilds aren’t usually looking to recruit solo roamers, they have little to no need for rangers.

/thread

99% of the time you will find Rangers in WvW

spamming 1 from 1200-1500 or dead on the ground

unless your this guy lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaWcAek5_JE

Like, maybe the “amazing changes” that they mentioned for the rangers will make them useful in WvW …. ……

….. Nnnnaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh. :P

The Hitler Ranger video on Youtube sums it all up nicely… it is also ridiculously funny.

vote ranger #1 in CDI thread to stop ranger hate now!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Vote-for-the-Profession-Collaborative-Development/first

mistsim.2748:

vote ranger #1 in CDI thread to stop ranger hate now!!

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Vote-for-the-Profession-Collaborative-Development/first

Even if everyone voted ranger on all 3, it would only make them fix more of our “bugs”.
Truth be told, the most awesome functions of the ranger class is due bugs.

Part of what a Ranger brings is invisible… it does not show up on videos.

The bonus damage from Frost Spirit adds up really fast, but the total damage is never shown on screen. Instead it is diluted and spread out on allies who may not notice when they hit 10% harder because all of the fluctuations of might and vulnerability. People don’t notice that they are still getting buffed even after the spirit is dead.

If I healed a player for 4.5k, a green number would show up… or if I put an Aegis on him a Block would pop up, or if I blinded the enemy a Miss would show up. You can see all that on the screen. That is a meaningful contribution. But when 5 players and a bear are in an AoE together and the bear gets hit and one of the players does not… there is no notification that you helped that player. Unlike most players, the bear can have 30k+ health, defy pain, and a choice of massive regen, perma protection, or +50% damage reduction, and can be replaced every 16 seconds with a 100% full health replacement bear. Played right, pets can sponge a ton of damage that would otherwise hit players.

People don’t see that… they see a dead spirit and a pet doing pathetic damage. And if Rangers don’t know how their stuff works, they see the same thing everyone else does.

LetoII.3782:

Personally, I love rangers in WvW.
That heal my thieves steal from them before 2 shotting is wonderful

Context is king.. and oh so funny!

This guy usually plays along a thief named thundercat snarf, who rolled thief AFTER abandoning her longtime ranger main, which she knew how to play very well.

Also, if you actually think 1500 vs 1200 or even 900 range matters against an organized group… Well your in for a rude suprise when a variety of range closing skills/long range cc can bridge that gap in less than a second.

So much more to be said… but I’ll leave it with the fact that when I see rangers on the opposing force I get exited, when I see them with my force.. I cringe.

bearcow.2907:

LetoII.3782:

Personally, I love rangers in WvW.
That heal my thieves steal from them before 2 shotting is wonderful

Context is king.. and oh so funny!

This guy usually plays along a thief named thundercat snarf, who rolled thief AFTER abandoning her longtime ranger main, which she knew how to play very well.

Also, if you actually think 1500 vs 1200 or even 900 range matters against an organized group… Well your in for a rude suprise when a variety of range closing skills/long range cc can bridge that gap in less than a second.

So much more to be said… but I’ll leave it with the fact that when I see rangers on the opposing force I get exited, when I see them with my force.. I cringe.

i’m sure those rangers feel the same about you too. Now shake hands and stack up.

My guild would rather have rangers than more thiefs.

Crystal Desert
Guild: Desert Specter [VII]

WvW like many other structures of this game, has become a world full of max damage and lack of liability. People forget that the important thing is that your actually good at what you do.

I will take a ranger who is good at what they do over the top meta build any day.

So some may hate on rangers, but they are welcome to run with me any day.

Prysin.8542:

i’m sure those rangers feel the same about you too. Now shake hands and stack up.

Well if by exited you mean immobilized/steamrolled by myself or those with me… and by cringing you mean that opposing rangers have some sort of problem with getting stability and other things from their allied guards… sure.

More realistically…

(1)Get to server that is in t1 WvW.
(2)Work with for any serious period of time with one of the premier dedicated WvW guilds on those servers.

Then try and tell me you cringe when you see a guard as an ally and are afraid when you see enemy rangers….. I’ll have the popcorn ready.

Is on a former T1 server, used to fighting in T1, with T1 “premiere dedicated guilds”.
I don’t care if you roll a guard or a warrior or a necro or a ele. Mesmer, yes, because i can’t get portals myself.

My ranger is self sustained, high DPS spec. I do not care if you don’t give me stability, i got my own, and quite a lot of it too.

edit; and by cringing i mean whenever i see someone that act all high and mighty elitist like yourself.

mistsim.2748:

Prysin.8542:

Most of this discussion can boil down to "But warrior can counter you with skill “A, B, C, D, E, F, G”.

Ok, here’s one for you all. Normally when you run in a zerg, each profession perform their own task. Warrior CC is in 99% of instances easy to negate. Why? Because really do you think the enemy do not have warriors too that uses SwWh? If you think so, you are an idiot. It is proven beyond a doubt that ALL servers spam warriors and guards like there is no tomorrow. So Warrior cancels out warrior. Skill is irrelevant in zergs anyway.

In the end, what you want to do is CHAIN your CC. Now a warrior does this naturally, thanks to the design of the profession. Hats off to Anet for making it so smooth. The guardian also does do some mentionable CC or rather Area Denial (RoW, LoW).
However, neither of these professions, even with max condi duration produce anything by mediocre effects on 1 skill (flurry is a cleave, not a AOE. In zergs you want AOE, not single target w/cleave effect). Ill give guardians a slight +1 over warriors as they can apply heavy chill and immobilize at once, albeit, at longer cooldown.
Yet, whatever proper AOE CC these two professions dish out, CAN BE OUTDONE BY ONE RANGER PET.
You say pet dies in Zergs, yes they do, if you run right into the enemy melee train. So yes you have to do some positioning. Generally, if you keep your pet hidden and just avoid the whole melee train your pet will survive long enough to use it’s skill(s).

you are either very deluded or very inexperienced with other professions or going up against them. guardians and warriors have vastly superior hard CC, in addition to spammable soft CC (immobilize cones). ele is up there as well. this is why theyre better.

pet CC is mediocre at best. the problem isnt actually survivability because you can get around that by timing your signets and pet swaps. the problem is F2 cast time. canines are by far most reliable for larger fights.

the fact that you talk about stacking condition duration points to how inexperienced you are in this type of gameplay. conditions simply dont stick to a good melee train for longer than 0.5-1s. warriors are virtually immune to immobilize, so any hammer train or guardian train will literally run you over. you can survive with good positioning, but your soft CC will contribute nothing and you wont be doing any significant damage, independent of spec.

regardless of that, the ranger simply doesnt have the sustain for drawn out Gvg/GvZ fights in which youre either greatly outnumbered, or challenged.

again, in this discussion, we’re asking “how can any responsible raid leader justify a slot for the ranger?” we’re not concerned about “partial” effectiveness, only absolute. this is min-maxing. raids and gvg’s are min-maxed. sorry, but it’s true.

Did you not see the pic of the ranger’s combat log hitting 7k with autoattack? For zergbustings that not terribly bad.

My biggest beef with rangers is not build-related (I admit I know very little about them), but skill, or more accurately team skills. I have never, in the 18 months I’ve commanded, heard a ranger call a water field that wasn’t placed off to the side of nowhere.
When you call for soft CC, how often do you hear a ranger shout “MUDDY TERRAIN!”? As someone above me stated, there may be potential for the ranger, but most of them stand around, spamming 1, being useless.
I’ve seen a few go full tank in the melee train, but they just can’t compete with the guardian or warrior for that position, or even d/d ele for that matter.

I could see them as part of an assassin squad to provide cc for shatter mesmers against enemy casters out of position, but I’ve never heard a ranger suggesting this so I’m just gonna assume they can’t.

Bottom line, the class is weak in and of itself, but its made even worse by all the scrubs playing it.

Mizu.9387:

My biggest beef with rangers is not build-related (I admit I know very little about them), but skill, or more accurately team skills. I have never, in the 18 months I’ve commanded, heard a ranger call a water field that wasn’t placed off to the side of nowhere.
When you call for soft CC, how often do you hear a ranger shout “MUDDY TERRAIN!”? As someone above me stated, there may be potential for the ranger, but most of them stand around, spamming 1, being useless.
I’ve seen a few go full tank in the melee train, but they just can’t compete with the guardian or warrior for that position, or even d/d ele for that matter.

I could see them as part of an assassin squad to provide cc for shatter mesmers against enemy casters out of position, but I’ve never heard a ranger suggesting this so I’m just gonna assume they can’t.

Bottom line, the class is weak in and of itself, but its made even worse by all the scrubs playing it.

Assumptions are what gets you killed in WvW.
Assuming a ranger can or cannot do something is about as wise as saying a warrior can’t survive.

Ranger can hard CC stuff more effective then most professions. Yes a warrior can apply lots of stun, but stun can be countered by stunbreakers and stability. However aside from Earthshaker, most warrior CC is single target and restricted to melee range. That is a problem.

Single target is ONLY good if you want to focus people one by one.

The problem with rangers, like you said, is that way WAY too many scrubs play the profession. They got no clue what they can do if they decide to focus on teamwork rather then selfish numbers.
The downside to rangers is that they cannot completely match a warrior and do heavy damage, have good sustain and good team support. We can get 3k+ attack, 3k+ armor, 18k HP, 30% crit chance and 70% crit damage easily, however in the process we miss out on some functions that warrior can do with weapons alone.

Yes we can still take muddy terrain, yes we can still grant AOE protection, yes we still got all the utilities that pets bring, but above 15v15 pets are useless for anything but doing stuff that you can do during stacking or on the move.

ATM, as is, only 6 pets are useful in big zergs;
Wolf (Fear) when you are downed
Brown Bear (AOE Condition Cleanse) due to high HP pool and instant activation of skill
Red Moa (Fury) only for stacking
Krytan Drakehound (Immobilize) only for backline snaring
Fern Hound (Healing + Regen) Can be used right after an encounter
Drakes (Semi-reliable blast finisher)

If we focus on 15v15 or less, rangers are in a kitten fine spot, being able to apply heavy condition pressure, good tanking, very good team support, strong healing, an uncomparable AOE CC coverage (because the pets work flawlessly here), and heavy sustained direct damag. That’s right, a ranger will not produce 10k crits on short CD bursts. Maul is too telegraphed. Instead a ranger can do something else, something warriors and guards and eles and necros doesn’t do AS well. They do sustained DPS with quick AA attacks. So instead of seeing 20k+ crits, you see a flurry of 3k-5k AA attacks.
Rangers does not burst very well, instead they do sustained DPS. This is why you see most rangers only doing AA attacks. Our AA has better coefficiency and DPS then ANY of our other attacks short of Maul on GS VS GS AA.

Since i do not plan to play GW2 for a while, i will share my Guild Raid build. Hopefully some people will realize the destructiveness of it and take it to heart. Hopefully, some rangers will use it and stop being scrubs.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQNBhODbkoqxOxywi1OQseQo9PImC+XInCU5pTe1uWB-jUDBoeJD3RQmgAioAhsIYEIwpqFRjtMqIas6aYqTLqW5CwiOYuDLqWKAmUGB-w

It says 28% crit chance, but once you enter combat, with spotter (trait) adding +7% and fury adding another 20% you got a grand total of 55% crit chance. More then enough given the circumstances.

With this build you got;
A big waterfield + Blast Finisher
AOE Condition Cleanse
AOE Immobilize and cripple
AOE Fury
Passive +7% crit chance to allies
AOE Swiftness

Also, the axe mainhand, with this build, aim it at Oil or a Cannon and you will hit the cannon + the user for about 2k+ on a very spammable AA. Axe allows for very easy bloodlust stacking, but also the ability to wreck backlines with strong bouncing attacks.

Enjoy, make sure to tell the developers what the rangers need for WvW in the CDI thread. This is me saying goodbye, im rerolling minecraft until the game gets a proper content update for WvW.

bye prysin
i will miss ur intelligent and true texts about the ranger. i hoped u will write in cdi as a real ranger with good knowledge.

McWolfy.5924:

i played 1year+ with my ranger only. i tried every gear and build. once i was fed up with the ranger hate and rerolled to a warrior. and know what happened? never changed back. now i have guardian, warrior, necro and all of them have more heal, cc, dmg, aoe and team support, survivibility without traits as my ranger have with full traits. my ranger was lvl270 after a year. my warrior made that under the first leage.
my warrior deals 3-4k dmg on zerkers with a dodge roll and its aoe! guardian… dodge, staff1, press buttons and collect loot bags. necro? i leveled my necro with books so i never played with it prevously. i didnt known how it is work or what am i need to do, just bought an armor, trinkets and staff for badges. you know what happened? i pressed buttons and targeted the middle of the enemy. i never seen that much numbers flying. necro is a half warrior, half guardian, half ele. the ranger? i 1/10 thief, 2/10 engi, 1/10 ele and 2/10 warrior.

This! I am in the same boat. Used to LOVE my Ranger, until I rolled other classes. Havent played my ranger since. Will be glad when I get my 490 rank off her and on my other classes, along with my tag. My poor ranger, RIP.