Guild Wars 2

Hmmm…

2 Alpine BLs – Assigned to Strongest & Weakest
1 Desert BL – Assigned to Middle World

Thought process…I might be wrong…but:

Forces Weakest to Hit Strongest
Gives Middle a Choice to Team-Up with Weakest
Gives Middle a Choice to Force Weakest out of Tier

Strange example of using a Majority of Player’s Motivation to engineer a solution.

However, this is a poor game design choice…once the Players learn to navigate the Desert BL…the Flow of the Game will change.

We’re still missing a Long Term WvW Ecosystem & this wouldn’t be an issue if we had a different Core Fight Model…imho

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

Diku.2546:

Desert BL just needs a higher critical mass of players to be fun…imho.

And some more tweaks.

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

But that will still not be better than a map designed from the ground up with Keeping players engaged in nonstop PvP action the entire time they are on it.

If they rethink the map entirely from the perspective of how it plays straight out of spawn and focus on bringing players together to want to fight over the objectives and focus on how each class plays on every single mm the map adding content to benefit every class type to enhance their game play experience rather than have game play as an after thought it could be good. However, that is going to take a ton of work and means taking it back to the drawing table, not just tweaking it here and there. They have to start over with the topography.

Game play should have been the focus, the skins should have been the afterthought.

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

The devs have already stated that EB is the most popular map, so all wvw maps need to be modeled more in that style.

Teon didn’t say “add more PvE”. Most players wanted open spaces, less mazes and less verticality… Most wanted problob maps, not the awful obstacle dbl design. Most want mass warfare, not jumping puzzles.

Edit- and the wvw playerbase doesn’t support all these segregated matches because players want mass amounts of players to fight against… That’s why your globe idea doesn’t work because it segregates an already thin population. MMOs don’t add servers as their population dwindles, they condense servers. Look at any mmo that struggles and you’ll see how they constantly remove servers because they are forced to by necessity. That’s why I keep saying we need to condense players, not spread them out. That’s what you are not fundamentally understanding.

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

The devs have already stated that EB is the most popular map, so all wvw maps need to be modeled more in that style.

Teon didn’t say “add more PvE”. Most players wanted open spaces, less mazes and less verticality… Most wanted problob maps, not the awful obstacle dbl design. Most want mass warfare, not jumping puzzles.

Much of the obstacle/closed off design ALSO prevents some classes from being able to use their skills making many of the areas where people are supposed to fight where their classes are unplayable on the map at all. The Keeps have to be redone entirely to solve much of the problems as well. The actual topography and obstacle design is what makes some classes unplayable on the maps at all. It was like they made being able to actually play the maps with all classes an afterthought..

@lil devils x

Hmm…you have a pretty good point.

Me personally…I used to PUG Command on the Desert BL…Solo Capping Camps…until I could attract enough players to start taking out Towers…then Keeps.

Desert BL imho…just needs more Commanders/Leaders that feel comfortable running around on it.

The Desert BL is confusing to navigate…I get that…being a Commander…it sucks when you drive your Zerg into a stupid place.

Anyway…that’s just my opinion. I’m sure there are others that would offer a different perspective from mine & I could be in the minority…which is fine for me.

However, we really should swallow this bitter pill for now, or we’re going to train ANet never to feed us anything new…imho

One pill I’m still having a hard time swallowing is the World Linking. I still believe that there is a more simple & elegant solution…imho

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

EBG “Was” the most popular map…when Alpine wasn’t around…imho

Actually take a look at the statistics of this page:

http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

TREND Shows atm:

3 Borderland Maps Kills or Deaths > EBG Kills or Deaths

Alpine BL is more Popular atm (Top Tiers, but not Bottom Tiers)…based on the above web page.

What is popular today…may not be tomorrow.

It really depends on the underlying Motivation of the Majority of Players.

Be careful how you throw facts around…even I need to be wary myself.

lil devils x.6071:

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

The devs have already stated that EB is the most popular map, so all wvw maps need to be modeled more in that style.

Teon didn’t say “add more PvE”. Most players wanted open spaces, less mazes and less verticality… Most wanted problob maps, not the awful obstacle dbl design. Most want mass warfare, not jumping puzzles.

Much of the obstacle/closed off design ALSO prevents some classes from being able to use their skills making many of the areas where people are supposed to fight where their classes are unplayable on the map at all. The Keeps have to be redone entirely to solve much of the problems as well. The actual topography and obstacle design is what makes some classes unplayable on the maps at all. It was like they made being able to actually play the maps with all classes an afterthought..

Yes, dbl was a poorly thought out attempt to pander to the “I hate blob” crowd and it obviously failed on many different levels.

I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not feel the devs have a good understanding of rvr gameplay, or were just forced to give us this low quality wvw due to lack of resources.

Swagger.1459:

Diku.2546:

@Teon

No PvE gimmicks…shudders at the thought.

Sometimes…Less is More.

---

I get what you mean though…ANet can do more “tweeks” to improve things specifically for the WvW Game Mode.

The devs have already stated that EB is the most popular map, so all wvw maps need to be modeled more in that style.

Teon didn’t say “add more PvE”. Most players wanted open spaces, less mazes and less verticality… Most wanted problob maps, not the awful obstacle dbl design. Most want mass warfare, not jumping puzzles.

Edit- and the wvw playerbase doesn’t support all these segregated matches because players want mass amounts of players to fight against… That’s why your globe idea doesn’t work because it segregates an already thin population. MMOs don’t add servers as their population dwindles, they condense servers. Look at any mmo that struggles and you’ll see how they constantly remove servers because they are forced to by necessity. That’s why I keep saying we need to condense players, not spread them out. That’s what you are not fundamentally understanding.

To be fair, I think Diku was being a bit sarcastic. I didn’t take it like I was being misinterpreted.

At the same time, you truly make some very accurate statements, imo, in your above post. Older mmorpgs almost always are forced to condense/combine servers at some point in time. And yea, dbl did spread players out. It appealed to the minority that like roaming and havoc, but for the majority, it completely sucked.

I still think DBLS have a lot of potential, with a ton more tweaks.

Swagger.1459:

Yes, dbl was a poorly thought out attempt to pander to the “I hate blob” crowd and it obviously failed on many different levels.

I’m not trying to be rude, but I do not feel the devs have a good understanding of rvr gameplay, or were just forced to give us this low quality wvw due to lack of resources.

I don’t think that GW2 was ever meant to be a wvw/rvr concentric game. I t was meant to be a PvE game with PvP, and oh yea, we also have wvw.

It has been pretty obvious over the last few years where all the resources have gone. They have only just recently shown any sort of interest in wvw. That’s great, I think…..but this mode hasn’t been paid much attention…..so it is going to take a lot of work/effort, etc., to bring it up to something most of us might enjoy on a consistent basis.

@Diku

Just a flesh wound.3589:

WvW poll: If “Simultaneous Borderlands” wins the poll ANet is more likely to work on a third Borderlands map

Anet-TylerB
Just to clarify. The Simultaneous Borderlands is a system that better supports a third map, than the rotation strategy. So an additional map would be more likely in that respect. However, our development priorities are still community driven. We wouldn’t start building another WvW map unless it was put to a vote, and won.

Anet-TylerB
There’s already a large amount of asymmetry with the layout of Eternal Battlegrounds, our most popular map. So now we are asking the whole WvW community to decide which concept is more important to them: maintaining perfectly symmetrical borderlands map balance, or having additional map variety.

EB = most popular map.

@Swagger

The Exciting History of Carbon Paper!
http://www.kevinlaurence.net/essays/cc.php

Google Search – Carbon Paper Popular

Popular Mechanics Nov 1969, page 31

https://books.google.com/books?id=O9gDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT18&lpg=PT18&dq=carbon+paper+popular&source=bl&ots=3iS8ZaycAE&sig=lUzYz3Lg9e9AoZEeHtsjk6P5Va0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3wMyfjYvNAhVLVWMKHRibDQgQ6AEIjQEwEQ#v=onepage&q=carbon%20paper%20popular&f=false

Carbon Paper = Popular

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

Carbon Paper Popular

Popular Mechanics Nov 1969, page 31

https://books.google.com/books?id=O9gDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PT18&lpg=PT18&dq=carbon+paper+popular&source=bl&ots=3iS8ZaycAE&sig=lUzYz3Lg9e9AoZEeHtsjk6P5Va0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj3wMyfjYvNAhVLVWMKHRibDQgQ6AEIjQEwEQ#v=onepage&q=carbon%20paper%20popular&f=false

Carbon Paper = Most Popular

I’m not sure why you are posting that, but you just told me to be careful of the facts and I just quote a developer to show you the facts.

Instead of being so “anti swagger”, perhaps start understanding what I’m saying.

@Swagger

What I’m trying to say that you’re trying to argue a “Fact” that is “based” on Votes from the past & not present…and circumstances have changed.

People’s opinion & underlying circumstances supporting something being popular…could change…since that “Vote” was taken.

Ask ANet to run a Poll for you…

Asking Which of the 4 WvW Maps do Players Like the Most.

Hope this better explains what I’m trying to say. Sorry for trying to poke fun.

What devs should do: ask players what are the most exciting combat spots in alpine and redo deserts.

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

What I’m trying to say that you’re trying to argue a “Fact” that is “based” on Votes from the past & not present.

People’s opinion could change…since that “Vote” was taken.

Hope this better explains what I’m trying to say. Sorry for trying to poke fun.

I just quoted a developer response. Pound for pound EB is the most popular map. They use lifetime statistics, not “well this week”…

Their stats prove that over the course of almost 4 years EB is the most popular map. You can be in denial to this or you can accept that dev response based off of their data.

@Swagger

I see your point now.

If you purely look at the numbers of EB having the highest body count visiting…without understanding Why.

Then your point to change all Maps to be EB would be valid.

EB is the Most Popular…this is not to be taken out of context.

If ANet is guided by pure numbers….we really should make all WvW Maps into EB.

I’d give Serious Caution about just following pure numbers…without understanding the Why. Doing so can be misleading & dangerous…imho

You made your point. Very well done.

Diku.2546:

@Swagger

I see your point now.

If you purely look at the numbers of EB having the highest body count visiting…without understanding why.

Then your point to change all Maps to be EB would be valid.

EB is the Most Popular…this is not to be taken out of context.

If ANet is guided by pure numbers….we really should make all WvW Maps into EB.

I’d give Serious Caution about just following pure numbers…without understanding the Why. Doing so can be dangerous…imho

You made your point. Very well done.

Aesthetically maps can be different and themed different, but it’s about “feel” more than anything.

Players have already expressed their dislike for dbl being “too maze like”, “too vertical”, “too closed in”, “too confusing”…

So for example, if you were to look at my suggestion you see 8 maps designed with this “open space” type feel conducive to what the majority look for and want. X number of pvp/pve maps that cater to the “I hate blobs” crowd that like solo play, roaming and havok style with open world objectives, not beating up castle walls. PvE maps to be inclusive, generate interest and to help fuel the point machine.

I understand that there are different playstyles, but the devs can’t take out the “blob” style maps when there are only 4 maps to choose from to begin with. With only 4 maps the devs cannot cater to the minority at all, and we have seen the negative effect that dbl design has had.

They either need to delete dbl or fix it up.

@Swagger

Diku.2546:

Hmmm…

2 Alpine BLs – Assigned to Strongest & Weakest
1 Desert BL – Assigned to Middle World

---

Thought process…I might be wrong…but:

Forces Weakest to Hit Strongest
Gives Middle a Choice to Team-Up with Weakest
Gives Middle a Choice to Force Weakest out of Tier

---

Strange example of using a Majority of Player’s Motivation to engineer a solution.

However, this is a poor game design choice…once the Players learn to navigate the Desert BL…the Flow of the Game will change.

---

We’re still missing a Long Term WvW Ecosystem & this wouldn’t be an issue if we had a different Core Fight Model…imho

---

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

My train of thought just went back to my original post after the above discussion.

@Swagger

Diku.2546:

@lil devils x

Hmm…you have a pretty good point.

Me personally…I used to PUG Command on the Desert BL…Solo Capping Camps…until I could attract enough players to start taking out Towers…then Keeps.

Desert BL imho…just needs more Commanders/Leaders that feel comfortable running around on it.

The Desert BL is confusing to navigate…I get that…being a Commander…it sucks when you drive your Zerg into a stupid place.

Anyway…that’s just my opinion. I’m sure there are others that would offer a different perspective from mine & I could be in the minority…which is fine for me.

However, we really should swallow this bitter pill for now, or we’re going to train ANet never to feed us anything new…imho

---

One pill I’m still having a hard time swallowing is the World Linking. I still believe that there is a more simple & elegant solution…imho

---

Possible Better Long Term Solution – Google Search – Reboot Base Map Mechanic

And this came to mind from a previous post above.

Ok…going to stand down from this discussion…I’m not contributing anything new.

Swallow the pill, or ANet will never give us new maps, or we’ll end up with an ALL DBL Map Rotation…imho

Where is the option to empty the recycle bin and permanently delete the filthy DBLs?

Finally you get what you want and then you start arguing about it.

Okay just for fun lets assume these facts

1) Eternal battlegrounds is the most popular map
2) Edge of the mist is the second most popular map
3) Alpine is the third most popular map and is preferred by zerg guilds cause of proximity

4) Desert Borderlands is the map preferred by Havoc, scouts, builders, all random players, newest cause it asks new challenges from you as a player and a guild running zergs or blobs on it.

The first 3 maps have the positive point that most ppl know them, but they are old after 4 years frankly some of them are just not as appealing as they were at the start. So the need a revamp no? Something that ppl can say makes it worth again to play them.

Okay if you follow the figures:

- most of you like playing EBG so why don’t we put EBG on all the borderlands and replace it in the center with another map cause it creates the same prob no diversity.
- most of you like playing Alpine so why don’t we put Alpine on all the borderlands and replace it in the center with another map cause it creates then we create the prob we don’t have EBG in the center
- we could replace all the borderland we EOTM then we can all go rankfarm not a solution lol

I think this poll sends a message to you, if you are smart have a look at it, it offers you 2 choices actually being are you for 3 months of one map followed by 3 months of another map OR do you wish to run different maps at the same time.

The add to the question is the format in which you wish to run this being question 1 – 2 about how many maps of what kind.

With regards to the future i chose nr. 1

Why?

Seeing most of you like Alpine i do not wish to deprive anyone (the majority) of the players of the enjoyment of this map

But it allows me to continue playing Desert Borderland map the way i like it in the mean time :-)
As some of you have mentioned Arena-net maybe working on other maps in the mean time which would randomize the system lets hope they do a good job :-)

for me thumbs up i like this poll! Keep it going :-)

Diku.2546:

EBG “Was” the most popular map…when Alpine wasn’t around…imho

Actually take a look at the statistics of this page:

http://coveragewars2.com/death.php

TREND Shows atm:

3 Borderland Maps Kills or Deaths > EBG Kills or Deaths

Alpine BL is more Popular atm (Top Tiers, but not Bottom Tiers)…based on the above web page.

What is popular today…may not be tomorrow.

It really depends on the underlying Motivation of the Majority of Players.

Be careful how you throw facts around…even I need to be wary myself.

No that site shows EBG is still the most populated map. You have to compare it one to one since EBG is queued in most tiers so it shows the most populated. For the best numbers you would have to compare a queued map to queued map. Some people are in the borderlands since EBG is queued. In order for this information to better be used it need to capture the amount of players and players in queue.

Even then this site could mis-represent information since you could have people GvGing on a borderland which is where that occurs. Doesn’t mean the map is more popular, means more people were fighting while it could still be holding less players.

Plus ANet has those numbers on people queuing and were the ones saying EBG was their most popular map. Wouldn’t second guess that one for now.

This thread isn’t about map design, so I will leave that alone for now. I do agree that if another map was created from scratch feedback from all players about it might help ANet. You want a map to work for a zerg and for a solo hunter. The how you get there is a big debate as well as the one about a home land advantage versus more equal balance like EBG.

lil devils x.6071:

dank.3680:

lil devils x.6071:

dank.3680:

lil devils x.6071:

too long winded.

You kittened in my cheerios.

Thanks for highlighting that the population declines had little to do with DBL and started long before.

As for the inferior comment.

Realize I am on MAG.. I see every single day KILL tag kittening and moaning in /map-/team at people if they play something like thief or ranger, telling them to leave WVW… I see the same attitude from KILL tags *every single day, regarding those who can’t or don’t want to be on TS with the server.

Not everyone likes voice comms or can use them, it’s fine to ask people to join you but your guild really needs to stop belittling people if they don’t.

Of course ONLY players from my guild hates rangers. Mhmm… I am sure that must be the case. Every commander has their play style, and we have many different commanders with different play styles. Choosing to not play as team in a team ( server vs server) game mode will always catch flak no matter what team sport it is you are playing. If you cant hear what people are saying, of course you miss what is going on and anger your teammates. That should be expected regardless of what team you play for. It is like standing in center field and letting the ball fall in front of you and expecting no one to yell at you for it.

Of course there was a decline prior to the DBL, I wasn’t aware anyone said there was not. The game just started hemorrhaging players at a much higher rate due to the DBL, not that it was the ONLY thing running players off. In fact the post you quoted above of mine were highlighting two of the other things upsetting players. Rewarding PvD and Siege damage on players are more reasons. I was under the impression though this particular topic was the impact of the DBLs on the game, not the other reasons players left. Players have been leaving for many reasons, this just happens to be a big one.

We were discussing THIS decline, not the others in this topic though since this was about the DBL’s here. The other reasons players left do not negate the masses who left over the DBL however.

I didn’t do anything to your cheerios. I Put Tabasco sauce in my brothers Spaghettios, not cheerios TYVM.

It’s like you think the whole server is part of your guild.. These are mandates you put on your guild not across a whole public server.

I do play as a “team” when I’m with my “team” aka my guild, maybe I would be willing to be on TS with them, but usually not.

People have personal reasons for not using TS or playing whatever class they want. Your guild has a right to deny such things within your own politics, but not across the whole server.

Bullies.

WvW is not GvG, it is server vs server. The entire server is YOUR team. You put these mandates on your team because that is the team you play for. Of course if you are standing out in center field your team is going to yell at you to get the ball. That is how team sports are played. This has nothing to do with a guild, it has everything to do with players on your team expecting all the players on their team to play as a team.

If this were only GvG, not WvW they would have nothing to say as you would not be on their team. You choose to be on their team every time you step foot in WvW, so you are either on the team or your not. You should expect your team to care what you are doing that affects your team. Playing whatever class you want is like everyone on the baseball team trying to play first base when you only need one first baseman. The moment you step into WvW you are on the same team regardless of how you or they feel about it, so we try to work as any team would.

No. You are wrong.

The simple fact is I have every right and ability to enter wvw and do whatever I want. With as big or as small as a group as I want. I can run alone. I can ignore the tags. I can do whatever the kitten I want.

You could kick me if I was in your guild. You CANNOT kick me from WVW or whatever server I am on.

Get off your high horse.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Hi guys, I just wanted to respond to a few concerns:

Thank you for taking the time to explain all that. It does make more sense now.

Regarding any removal of DBL, why not let players “vote with their feet”, particularly if there’s some kind of mixed rotation? That’s when you’ll have data about where people play, what happens in terms of captures, kills, etc.

While this polling stuff is an interesting change of pace, it shouldn’t dictate everything you do, the community on the forums is a subset of the actual playerbase. Sure I can get reminder mail when I rank up that there’s yet another poll up, but am I really going to read 7 pages of posts about why a poll’s questions are misleading or should have looked a different way or pressure posts to make devs backpedal or reveal next steps etc.? C’mon.

Polling is ok to some moderate extent, but giving any impression it drives “everything” is a little extreme. Deleting stuff for example, very extreme. Strident “I’m not gonna play unless I get my way” posters are a little much, I’m still expecting to play crowded maps in T1 match ups either way, lots of people who stuck to the game developed expertise in the DBLs regardless, putting it to use in the future would be perfectly fine.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

/Facepalm

For the upcoming poll of whether to get rid of the DBL entirely I was going to vote no because some people like it and I could have delt with a mixture.

But now, because of the result of this vote, I am forced to vote yes to scrap it entirely so I don’t have to put up with 3 months straight of only DBL available and no Alpine.

Aye >.< Beggining to agree that these polls were backwards. Anyone who had even the SLIGHTEST issue with DBL is now virtually guaranteed to vote to scrap the DBL in the next Poll. I really hope it also requires a 75% to pass. And that anet understands that the fact that they now have to deal with 3 months of something they don’t enjoy is gonna push people that would have been okay with it as one of the three to vote to remove it entirely.

This poll was messed up from the start in all honesty. The wording of it, the announcement that there would be another poll about removing dbl in the future instead of before this poll.

Sorry everyone who likes dbl and those that worked on it, now I am forced to vote to remove it entirely. I could have lived with a 2alpine/1dbl implentation, but 3 months of all borderlands being dbl, nope not again.

Johje Holan.4607:

For the upcoming poll of whether to get rid of the DBL entirely I was going to vote no because some people like it and I could have delt with a mixture.

But now, because of the result of this vote, I am forced to vote yes to scrap it entirely so I don’t have to put up with 3 months straight of only DBL available and no Alpine.

Sadly, regardless of what I think about DBL, I have to say I can agree with your reasoning. These polls should have either been combined, as some people suggested, or be done in different order.

Because, as things stand people will have to compromise for both polls and the result of one will have adverse effects on the other. For the record, I doubt more than 75% will vote to scrap DBL (majority probably, but at the end of the day that ain’t enough), but of course that is just my feeling. Tyler said they went with 75% in order to avoid 49/51 splits, sadly those splits exists in whatever criteria they choose.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

I hope revamps to dbl happen.

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

Swagger.1459:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

I hope revamps to dbl happen.

This poll, and especially the way it was worded, was head scratching to say the least.
I have never lost hope that they’ll continue to tweak dbls, but I think a mixed map would have made more people happier in the long run.

Although, I don’t trust the dbls haters on this forum……as has been said before, wvw players will play the areas that are given to them. I was already beginning to see some new zerg strategies and such being employed in the dbls just before they were yanked…..and I am sure that will continue. Plus, the roamers, havocers, and small group players will enjoy having the dbls back for a chunk of time.

But this poll, and the upcoming ‘get rid of dbls’ poll are confusing, at best. Imo, it doesn’t show me that Anet is real sure of what sort of direction they want to take wvw.

Maybe none of this even really matters much, as this game was made with PvE and PvP as its main priorities. Sure, I would love to see WvW take a higher importance to the dev team, but maybe all they’re doing is just throwing us a bone or two. /shrug

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The poll has ended! After removing all votes for “Don’t Count My Vote” and combining the two “Yes” votes, the final results are:

69.7% – Yes (55% Double Alpine + 14.7% Double Desert)
30.3% – No

Since “Yes” to Mixed Borderlands did not received the required 75% of the vote, we’ll continue with the quarterly borderlands map rotation instead. Thank you to everyone who voted!

So lets look at this from a different angle, 30% of people want to have a map rotation every 3 months and they actually win… what an absolute farce, pathetic.

Teon.5168:

Although, I don’t trust the dbls haters on this forum……as has been said before, wvw players will play the areas that are given to them. I was already beginning to see some new zerg strategies and such being employed in the dbls just before they were yanked…..and I am sure that will continue. Plus, the roamers, havocers, and small group players will enjoy having the dbls back for a chunk of time.

The thing is, Alpine borderlands had more than 3 years, people optimized their play styles for that map. Then Desert borderlands comes along and has less than a year. Sure it had issues, it still does… however, the dislike for it is not as simple as that. People gravitate towards other people, so if you happen to be in a guild that denounces DBL completely whatever you might actually think about the issue will soon cease to matter entirely, you will just echo the popular opinion because you want to have people to play with.

Right now we are in a situation where 30% of the voters decided for two thirds, and the next poll about DBL’s removal might end up being the same thing, only the roles reversed… and if that happens it will be a lose lose situation no matter which side of the fence you are on.

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

Crise.9401:

Teon.5168:

Although, I don’t trust the dbls haters on this forum……as has been said before, wvw players will play the areas that are given to them. I was already beginning to see some new zerg strategies and such being employed in the dbls just before they were yanked…..and I am sure that will continue. Plus, the roamers, havocers, and small group players will enjoy having the dbls back for a chunk of time.

The thing is, Alpine borderlands had more than 3 years, people optimized their play styles for that map. Then Desert borderlands comes along and has less than a year. Sure it had issues, it still does… however, the dislike for it is not as simple as that. People gravitate towards other people, so if you happen to be in a guild that denounces DBL completely whatever you might actually think about the issue will soon cease to matter entirely, you will just echo the popular opinion because you want to have people to play with.

Right now we are in a situation where 30% of the voters decided for two thirds, and the next poll about DBL’s removal might end up being the same thing, only the roles reversed… and if that happens it will be a lose lose situation no matter which side of the fence you are on.

Yea, the way these polls are done is odd, to say the least. This last poll, as someone else posted, just let 30% of the voters decide the direction that Anet takes the bls.

Bizarre.

The poll to destroy dbls, I imagine, will be the same. 50-60% total MIGHT vote to destroy dbls, but the smaller 20-30% will, again, decide the direction of WvW.

/scratching head

In the end, it doesn’t matter much to me, as I was beginning to like and get used to dbls, especially with some of the barrier removals. If they continue to tweak dbls, I actually think they might work well.

But these polls are an odd way to make (or not make) major decisions in the direction that wvw takes.

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

The last drastic drop in wvw population is what finally forced them to take an interest in wvw and start communicating. The bottom line is their bottom line, Players=cash.

Any way, I doubt the dbl will survive the next vote. I know people that don’t hate the dbl that will still vote for its destruction just to keep their friends from quitting the game.

Well we tried for a middle group and variety, it failed.

How did Henry Ford say it, “You can have the model T in any color, as long as it’s black.”.
My paranoia level about getting any new maps has now reached new levels.

TheGrimm.5624:

Well we tried for a middle group and variety, it failed.

How did Henry Ford say it, “You can have the model T in any color, as long as it’s black.”.
My paranoia level about getting any new maps has now reached new levels.

Agreed. I seriously doubt if we’ll see any new maps now.

Puck.9612:

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

The last drastic drop in wvw population is what finally forced them to take an interest in wvw and start communicating. The bottom line is their bottom line, Players=cash.

Any way, I doubt the dbl will survive the next vote. I know people that don’t hate the dbl that will still vote for its destruction just to keep their friends from quitting the game.

I don’t know. The way the polls are structured, all it will need is 26% or greater to vote against destroying the dbls. That’s not much.

And if the dbls are successfully voted to be destroyed, it would not be very difficult to imagine wvw going on ‘ignore’, again. I mean seriously, if I was Anet, why bother?

Put those wasted resources into PvE, a new expansion, better small scale PvP……areas that will keep and bring in the new players. WvW is looking more and more like a money pit…….(at least, that might be my attitude if I was Anet)

Teon.5168:

I don’t know. The way the polls are structured, all it will need is 26% or greater to vote against destroying the dbls. That’s not much.

Make that 25.1% their “super majority” rule has a flip side.

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

Teon.5168:

Puck.9612:

Lol well good job anet, you pretty much just guaranteed that either the map will be destroyed or your player base will be.
If the next vote to destroy the map doesn’t pass there will be a lot of people leaving the game.

I am truly not sure if that is even all that important to Anet. Their bread and butter has always been PvE, and small scale PvP. WvW, especially at the start of the game was like a minor afterthought. Over the years, almost all of their resources has gone toward those two modes, with WvW almost being ignored.

Great to see them now paying it some attention, but I am not sure if they have a clear idea of where they want to take it. Yea, some of the changes will cause some wvw’ers to quit……but maybe there is not really that many(compared to the other modes) playing WvW to concern Anet that much. There will still be people that play wvw, despite whatever changes, and maybe the whole thing being smaller scale with less players actually becomes a good thing for Anet.

I don’t know. /confused

The last drastic drop in wvw population is what finally forced them to take an interest in wvw and start communicating. The bottom line is their bottom line, Players=cash.

Any way, I doubt the dbl will survive the next vote. I know people that don’t hate the dbl that will still vote for its destruction just to keep their friends from quitting the game.

I don’t know. The way the polls are structured, all it will need is 26% or greater to vote against destroying the dbls. That’s not much.

Meh… Whatever, if it fails it fails. My friends have been trying to talk me into playing Overwatch anyway. I know it’s not large scale PvP but neither is sitting in an ebg queue or running around an empty map.

I’d much rather keep playing this game and I’ll be encouraging my friends to vote the right way, but I’m not dealing with that kittenty map for months again.

Anyway to flip the world linking and remove DBL polls? Remove DBL might impact peoples answers on world linking schedule once they know where they might be playing. Just a thought.

Small minorities can determine the future of WvW now.

PLEASE for the love of all things WvW, re-run this poll. Nobody in any of my WvW guilds wants 3 months straight of just the DBL. 3 months of only DBL will effectively KILL WvW for those 3 months, as many people will simply not play.

Now, I personally like the DBL. But I like ABL too. So I would much rather have a mixture every week — variety is the spice of life they say — than suffer the woes of lower map populations or EB queuing during DBL months, not to mention the annoying complaints and whines from the DBL haters.

I think a large % of the NOs in this poll thought they were voting for no DBL. That skewed the results.

Please Tyler, re-run this poll and clarify the choices. I bet we’ll see very different results.

Suggestion (based on direct experience): I co-founded and ran a online polling Internet startup in the late 90s. Learned a lot about how to construct clear effective questionnaires. Going forward DO NOT use Yes vs No answers for multiple choice, non-binary, mutually exclusive responses. It’s way too confusing. This poll is proof of the confusion.

Essentially this poll was attempting to determine which of the 3 strategies on the table that people liked best. That is NOT a Yes and No question. It’s a 3-choice best preference question. Heck it could have been a rating question — asking people to rate the 3 choices based on which they liked best and least.

Because the poll was not structured properly, it’s my personal and professional opinion that the results cannot be trusted as reliable and representative.

Please, re-run it. Heck, drop me a line I’ll help you guys out with the future polls!

That said, keep up the great work and communication. I for one greatly appreciate it!!