Guild Wars 2

Thank you very much!

RIP ascalonian mage tonics, you will be missed

Will this take you out of combat tonics like the kodan tonic, watchknight, asalonian Mage when you enter combat? Aka- will people who use them for guild appearances and to avoid driver sniping be impacted by this? Or will we just not be able to activate them whilst already in combat

For clarification, does this mean that if you are transformed and then enter combat, you will transform back to your regular model?

Oddgo.5423:

For clarification, does this mean that if you are transformed and then enter combat, you will transform back to your regular model?

and then add a 5 sec CD for all skills. This will end tonic use in WvW.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

We are aware of the Kodan tonic ‘spam’ and the use of tonics in WvW to trigger weapon-swap effects. I just wanted to give everyone a heads-up that in the next update the Endless Kodan Tonic will have a 5 second cool down and will not be useable while in combat. We also plan to make it so you can’t use any tonics in combat going forward, but that will be coming in a later update since doing this work to all tonics in the game is going to take more time to implement and test.

Soooo, it will become a regular tonic? … Not a Combat Tonic?

In othe words: Are we going to be able to fight as a kodan if we activate the tonic before we fight?

Please clarify.

I hope not in every game mode… many were hoping that you’ll change the watchknight tonic to work as the kodan tonic does/did (I mean the CD and that being endless, and not lasting for 5 mins only).

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

To clarify you won’t be able to activate them while in combat.

So if you are transformed then enter combat you will not transform back to your regular model. So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

Nice. Will you guys add dodge animations to it as its quite a vital tell in fights?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

…We also plan to make it so you can’t use any tonics in combat going forward, but that will be coming in a later update since doing this work to all tonics in the game is going to take more time to implement and test.

Can we get some insight about what game function this particular feature causes issue?

As it stands, enemy teams get familiarized with your character model, and then choose specified pick teams to pull you from your group. As a regular player, this is subjective to filing it with the rest of (what I call) wah stories, but then when leading a group your whole team dies and becomes no longer any fun.

This particular strategy was employed to throw off those specific pick teams that target the driver only. Is there any way we may be able to come to some kind of compromise in light of this?

All you needed to do was add the cooldown to prevent spam. Since they could be used in combat they actually had a practical use.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

To clarify you won’t be able to activate them while in combat.

So if you are transformed then enter combat you will not transform back to your regular model. So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

Yeah, as another poster mentioned, that Kodan dodge animation needs work. Also, all tonics that provide a movement skill should be disabled…

Question… I know y’all are very busy, and not sure how much effort it’s going to take reviewing all these tonics, so would it make more sense to disable them all and be done with any possible future and known exploits?

Edit- With all the other really important work going on with wvw, I’d much prefer dev time and effort be devoted to the things that matter, not these silly tonics in our competitive game mode.

If you’re going to keep combat tonics in WvW, can you fix their animations at least? It’s quite annoying how some animations are not identifiable while transformed.

Silverbolt.2301:

If you’re going to keep combat tonics in WvW, can you fix their animations at least? It’s quite annoying how some animations are not identifiable while transformed.

Give it another update and tonics will probably be prohibited completely in WvW when yet another exploit is found.

I really fail to see why we just dont skip the pointless phase of it being broken to when we can play real WvW again.

For those saying “omg but how can I avoid pin sniping, I need my tonics”, that’s not a freaking excuse. Commanders create that situation themselves by going brainless guard-necro-lets-all-dps-until-we’re-numb meta while excluding the classes that bring the tools to combat pin sniping.

Offair.2563:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

To clarify you won’t be able to activate them while in combat.

So if you are transformed then enter combat you will not transform back to your regular model. So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

Nice. Will you guys add dodge animations to it as its quite a vital tell in fights?

Now that would be epic lol

Kodan tonic is the only way I see my character model after about an hour of large fights. The character model just disappears at some point and does not return until I can switch maps. I would much prefer to see my character as a kodan than empty space.

So we need to fix a ton of stuff to keep these tonics… what a waste of dev time for this junk.

make it so you can use candy corn gobbler in combat tho

I don’t understand why people are getting their panties all tied up in knots about the change. Personally if I was a dev in charge of this fix I’d remove the use all tonics from the game. Outside Gin and Tonic that is…

Game is designed around animations and dodging. Factoring in Tonics means my animation department has more work to do now every time I add something new to the game. Or we have bugs because we do or do not do proper quality assurance or regression testing (manual or automated). No dig towards the developers when crafty people find something that works then others replicate and abuse in other formats of play.

If you care about the WvW format of play then this shouldn’t bother you. If you are into playing dress up or character change then sure, get upset. But that is what PvE is for as long as you don’t abuse game or bug mechanics to get past content…

Pls can you remove ‘Recently Transformed’ debuff from Infinite Watchknight Tonic.

Please also make it so that all the Mushroom tonics are disabled. They all have a movement skill on them that people have been exploiting, but only one has been disabled which was a super lazy fix that didn’t actually fix anything.

OneUP.3024:

delete WvW already. Everything gets nerfed because of this kitten mode.

The PvE’s r cute, but really your scripted fights and your ability to RP will be fine. Your world won’t end if it’s disabled for a short duration I promise.

On the flip side if they never introduced them to appease the care bears to begin with, WvW wouldn’t have had this issue, so please delete PvE, it’s always causing game breaking issues for WvW.

:|

Dawdler.8521:

Silverbolt.2301:

If you’re going to keep combat tonics in WvW, can you fix their animations at least? It’s quite annoying how some animations are not identifiable while transformed.

Give it another update and tonics will probably be prohibited completely in WvW when yet another exploit is found.

I really fail to see why we just dont skip the pointless phase of it being broken to when we can play real WvW again.

For those saying “omg but how can I avoid pin sniping, I need my tonics”, that’s not a freaking excuse. Commanders create that situation themselves by going brainless guard-necro-lets-all-dps-until-we’re-numb meta while excluding the classes that bring the tools to combat pin sniping.

Giving up specific skills/builds/classes to only MITIGATE sniping VS. having people look the same to make it more difficult for enemies to find the tag.

Also, I’m not sure where you’re going with the Guard/Necro stuff. Since the release of elite specializations, there’s been more room now than ever for other classes in WvW. While yes Guards and Necros are must haves in WvW, if you were to run a Guard and Necro only zerg then you’d get your kitten handed to you by most more-diverse groups with half a brain (provided you’re not like significantly outnumbering them and they’re not like running some weird nonsense builds).

roamzero.9486:

Please also make it so that all the Mushroom tonics are disabled. They all have a movement skill on them that people have been exploiting, but only one has been disabled which was a super lazy fix that didn’t actually fix anything.

I second this motion. It’s possible to completely cheese your way out of a fight with it.

This may seem like an odd question, but why even allow players to fight while transformed anyway?

For those mesmers that dont know.., in my experience, Kodan tonic prevents firing Double Images and dodge producing clones, so far.

Tsu Le Voyou.9675:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

…We also plan to make it so you can’t use any tonics in combat going forward, but that will be coming in a later update since doing this work to all tonics in the game is going to take more time to implement and test.

Can we get some insight about what game function this particular feature causes issue?

As it stands, enemy teams get familiarized with your character model, and then choose specified pick teams to pull you from your group. As a regular player, this is subjective to filing it with the rest of (what I call) wah stories, but then when leading a group your whole team dies and becomes no longer any fun.

This particular strategy was employed to throw off those specific pick teams that target the driver only. Is there any way we may be able to come to some kind of compromise in light of this?

Are you seriously asking to keep transformation abuse to avoid, or lessen, being hit in zergs?

Yes, we must remove all fun from wvw.

Nuzt.7894:

OneUP.3024:

delete WvW already. Everything gets nerfed because of this kitten mode.

The PvE’s r cute, but really your scripted fights and your ability to RP will be fine. Your world won’t end if it’s disabled for a short duration I promise.

On the flip side if they never introduced them to appease the care bears to begin with, WvW wouldn’t have had this issue, so please delete PvE, it’s always causing game breaking issues for WvW.

:|

See…we do agree on some things /wink

MadBomber.3719:

RIP ascalonian mage tonics, you will be missed

Only by some.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

To clarify you won’t be able to activate them while in combat.

So if you are transformed then enter combat you will not transform back to your regular model. So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

I’d highly suggest you disable the tonic entirely until every single animation in the game is remade for them. Too many critical animations and tells are outright missing. The spam is only half the problem, and the 5s ICD isn’t nearly long enough to stop the particle effect hiding in larger scale encounters or major skills.

I got really excited seeing the topic thread name but unfortunately these steps aren’t enough to really get excited about.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

To clarify you won’t be able to activate them while in combat.

So if you are transformed then enter combat you will not transform back to your regular model. So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

Aaaah i just read the first post about an hour after i decided to buy the kodan tonic so i don’t have to buy the mage tonic each time i turn invisible in wvw after using Tornado as ele. And then i saw the post and got bummed out. But what you write here makes sense and is really a good solution.

The kodan tonic uses the nord skeleton for its animations, the only animation missing is the dodge, I just hope they fix the animation instead of removing it.

apharma.3741:

Or just make it so you can’t use them while in combat which would fix 99% of the problems

Called it, nice clarification on staying transformed when entering combat. I look forward to the tengu and other transforms in future.

No! My Tonic Swag Finisher! Don’t do ittttt! nooooooo

/drama

uh my dear slub finisher will be missed

Sweet, good to know that we will still be able to have a tonic transformation during combat. Pin snipe is atrocious.

Not sure if your the right person to ask McKenna (if your still reading this), but an endless version of the Potion of Ascalonian Mages would be an excellent reward for WvW (in case Kodan is too hard to fix)

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Endless Kodan Tonic will have a 5 second cool down and will not be useable while in combat.

I can understand 5 second cooldown, but whats the point in making a COMBAT tonic not usable in combat.

Vegeta.2563:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Endless Kodan Tonic will have a 5 second cool down and will not be useable while in combat.

I can understand 5 second cooldown, but whats the point in making a COMBAT tonic not usable in combat.

She clarified in another post down,
you cant activate the tonic in combat, but you can put on the kodan tonic outside of combat and go into combat with it on.

Wouldn’t it be beneficial to add standard enemy model options to wvw? And just fix the weapon swap perks from tonic spam.

I’d like to see the combat tonics, new and old, have a dodge animation before being implemented. But Standard Enemy Models would be the band aid to that.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

So you can still fight as a kodan if you activate it before the fight.

Thanks for that! I love this kind of tonic and I hope you will add a lot more of them in future releases.

Haleydawn.3764:

Wouldn’t it be beneficial to add standard enemy model options to wvw?

Anyone activating the kodan tonic showing as standard model instead of kodan to enemies is a perfectly acceptable solution.

Swagger.1459:

Are you seriously asking to keep transformation abuse to avoid, or lessen, being hit in zergs?

No, there is no abuse in tonic use, if it does not give any statistical advantage.
You’ll have to try a bit harder at the bait game

How about making all tonics usable in WvW show all animations, a little quality check work for you, then just like finishers players can pick which tonic they want to use, or not, in WvW

Tsu Le Voyou.9675:

Swagger.1459:

Are you seriously asking to keep transformation abuse to avoid, or lessen, being hit in zergs?

No, there is no abuse in tonic use, if it does not give any statistical advantage.
You’ll have to try a bit harder at the bait game

Your post is clear, no need to attempt a spin doctor… You want to keep the abuse of appearance changes to visually throw off enemies during rushes or while being sniped. That’s not what these tonics were designed for.

While i agree with the no use in combat, i am disappointed about the 5 second cooldown. My guild mates and i are very RP oriented and we would spam our kodan tonics before an engage and yell out in team speak as if we were powering up like in dragonball z. The light show was amazing and really immersive to what we were trying to achieve.

on a side note, i know whoever we live with will love this change.

As long as I can use my ghost tonic during GvGs and command. I am guch.

I’m intrigued by the fact that so many players dislike outfits for the same reason they love tonics.

A lot of players dislike outfits because they can’t customize their look and/or because they dislike looking like everyone else. You can change the dyes, face and hair of your character but in a tonic form, you can change nothing.

Outfits are promoted while most tonics are not. Make something unobtainable/uninteresting for long enough, then make it shiny and new and everyone wants it?

I like the Kodan tonic don’t get me wrong, though I also never had problems with outfits. I just find it a bit ironic that so many love tonics yet I wouldn’t doubt that many of the same players hate outfits. It’s not all that different, you can change both when ever you please. One is just more commercially advertised and the other is a toy.

What will nsp do now…..without lightshows they might have to learn how to fight.

This change should have been done from the getgo. Why you never put a cd on ur tonics to begin with is beyond my understanding. Other tonics all have cd’s on them. This one has special effects and can be activated while in combat and it has 0 cd…..GREAT IDEAS ANET. Just stellar planning there.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

I’m intrigued by the fact that so many players dislike outfits for the same reason they love tonics.

A lot of players dislike outfits because they can’t customize their look and/or because they dislike looking like everyone else. You can change the dyes, face and hair of your character but in a tonic form, you can change nothing.

Outfits are promoted while most tonics are not. Make something unobtainable/uninteresting for long enough, then make it shiny and new and everyone wants it?

I like the Kodan tonic don’t get me wrong, though I also never had problems with outfits. I just find it a bit ironic that so many love tonics yet I wouldn’t doubt that many of the same players hate outfits. It’s not all that different, you can change both when ever you please. One is just more commercially advertised and the other is a toy.

Because outfits don’t come with missing animations and sprites to give an advantage in combat, so naturally people won’t defend them lol.

Fixing forum bug.