Guild Wars 2

Karma is a good point though….I will miss my 10K Karma from doing a low level run with friends. It helps me buy LOTS of stones for mystic forging and crafting ascended items….
However, as someone else put out there already, there are ways of getting karma….and with the new system it doesn’t sound like they are awarding that Karma bonus anymore anyways.

Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?

VOLKON.1290:

Korossive.7085:

Wow this thread just exploded.

When will you realize no decision maker reads anything here. Another hollow post by the forum rep is the max you’ll get.

I support you, but you’ll lose. Company decision.

Nah, they read it. They also have to take into consideration the big picture, what’s best for the game as a whole as opposed to the vocal minority that often is the loudest in the forums. Often if you feel you’re directly affected in a negative way, be it real or imagined, it can be easy to lose sight of the big picture.

This is true which is why I pointed out several things that I am pretty sure will not change (as much as I don’t like them). Level 50 hard cap (for now), new instabilities at 30. We need to work within the confines of the current patch.

My analogy was that they made a pizza…we cannot change that aspect into any other food. But maybe we can have them adjust some of the ingredients…or add ingredients…but it will stay a pizza and we cannot turn it into ice-cream.

The conversation has gotten less toxic and more constructive…lets keep it up! (and I do believe that the dev’s are reading, but they are skimming, which means if we stay on topic they are more likely to read fully.

VOLKON.1290:

Korossive.7085:

Wow this thread just exploded.

When will you realize no decision maker reads anything here. Another hollow post by the forum rep is the max you’ll get.

I support you, but you’ll lose. Company decision.

Nah, they read it. They also have to take into consideration the big picture, what’s best for the game as a whole as opposed to the vocal minority that often is the loudest in the forums. Often if you feel you’re directly affected in a negative way, be it real or imagined, it can be easy to lose sight of the big picture.

I can’t stay but this Argument is basicaly: Hey we can make whatever we want with your work and what you did , because your a minority only because your loud after we stole your car or destroyed your work. is no reason we have to look into it or apologize

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t understand why this is so hard to swallow.

And this here is exactly why this is such a problem. Thanks for illustrating it clear as day.

I can’t understand why it is so hard to swallow for the 1% if I’m part of the 99%… this is somthing a lot of ppl said in history because they were part of the 99%

So, let me get this straight. You feel that because you think you are part of some mythical 1% your opinion is more valid?

Titles and town clothes? Sure. I’m all for that. Cosmetic rewards for a cosmetic achievement number.

Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.

Also, way to quote out of context Lilith. Do you have anything else to add to the discussion or are you just here to be flippant and clever? I don’t understand it. I don’t understand that the people most invested in fractals are the least interested in new challenges and new ways to prove themselves. I don’t understand how having the meaning of a single number changed somehow undoes any of that effort. I don’t understand how being reset to 30 because everything after 30 is different now is somehow nerfing progress.

You earned the right to get to the next fractal rank. You went there. You did it again, and again. That is the only thing that number has ever been good for. You earned your right to play whatever elite difficulty you are currently at. You still haven’t earned the right to make 31+ under the new system. No one has.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

VOLKON.1290:

Korossive.7085:

Wow this thread just exploded.

When will you realize no decision maker reads anything here. Another hollow post by the forum rep is the max you’ll get.

I support you, but you’ll lose. Company decision.

Nah, they read it. They also have to take into consideration the big picture, what’s best for the game as a whole as opposed to the vocal minority that often is the loudest in the forums. Often if you feel you’re directly affected in a negative way, be it real or imagined, it can be easy to lose sight of the big picture.

I can’t stay but this Argument is basicaly: Hey we can make whatever we want with your work and what you did , because your a minority only because your loud after we stole your car or destroyed your work. is no reason we have to look into it or apologize

Patrik, I get your points and stuff but please stop comparing it to Germany and stuff…. It’s really… Not the best analogy to use.

I know it isn’t. this is why I edited the post sorry for that. I think anyway all can agree now that it be fair to Hand out titles and we can only wait for the devs so let’s wait:)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I don’t really see how this is constructive. We are trying to give anet ideas, not give them more reasons to ignore us. Kindly be a little more positive, I like my thread and would like to see it continue.

Sorry, but i tend to expect the worst, i’m not exactly an optimist when it comes to human nature.
Still, the key point is that it would be a retroactive reward. Something like this should have been told far in advance. Especially since, unlike PvP, fractals weren’t an official competition (as i said, they want to make them a competition with the patch). And neither a race against the time – quite the opposite, infact, since we get ascended equip every now and then to further bolster agony resistance.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

well but a rage out of jalousy you can ignore better than a rage out of stealing Things from Players without compensation. as for you souldbound would be an Option since fractal Levels were soulbound pvp ranks were not.. and I told in my post as well idc if they give lvl 0-30 titles as well . I would just think it’s nice if you can have all titles for that 1 char like the lvl 10, 20 , 30 , 40, 50 , 60 ,70 ,80… because sometimes the lower titles are cooler to wear:)

But as i said, fractals were never a competition between players – unlike pvp.
Some may have considered them so, but not the developers – until the next patch, at least.
While it isn’t right to remove progress, neither is right to give a prize for something that wasn’t supposed to give prizes out of the blue, after making it unavailable for everyone else.
Basically, there isn’t a right solution. There will be somebody unsatisfied either way.
And as metrics go, they’re probably going for the way that makes less people unsatisfied.

Moshari.8570:

Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?

Heh, the perfect way to deal with it should be informing the players there will be such titles or rewards and postpone the patch by several months to give the time for people interested to get them.
And i don’t exactly see it as feasible.

PopeUrban.2578:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t understand why this is so hard to swallow.

And this here is exactly why this is such a problem. Thanks for illustrating it clear as day.

I can’t understand why it is so hard to swallow for the 1% if I’m part of the 99%… this is somthing a lot of ppl said in history because they were part of the 99%

So, let me get this straight. You feel that because you think you are part of some mythical 1% your opinion is more valid?

Titles and town clothes? Sure. I’m all for that. Cosmetic rewards for a cosmetic achievement number.

Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.

Also, way to quote out of context Lilith. Do you have anything else to add to the discussion or are you just here to be flippant and clever? I don’t understand it. I don’t understand that the people most invested in fractals are the least interested in new challenges and new ways to prove themselves. I don’t understand how having the meaning of a single number changed somehow undoes any of that effort. I don’t understand how being reset to 30 because everything after 30 is different now is somehow nerfing progress.

You earned the right to get to the next fractal rank. You went there. You did it again, and again. That is the only thing that number has ever been good for. You earned your right to play whatever elite difficulty you are currently at. You still haven’t earned the right to make 31+ under the new system. No one has.

Look man, I’m not trying to get our levels to stay the same. I’m trying to have a good discussion. You’re the one who is devaluing hard work by saying its meaningless. I want titles and town clothes, and I’ve said it a million times. I’m here giving actual solutions, you’re just trying to make people feel bad.

Edit: also, that quote was a single line of your post. Separated by white space. How is that out of context?

PopeUrban.2578:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

PopeUrban.2578:

I don’t understand why this is so hard to swallow.

And this here is exactly why this is such a problem. Thanks for illustrating it clear as day.

I can’t understand why it is so hard to swallow for the 1% if I’m part of the 99%… this is somthing a lot of ppl said in history because they were part of the 99%

So, let me get this straight. You feel that because you think you are part of some mythical 1% your opinion is more valid?

Titles and town clothes? Sure. I’m all for that. Cosmetic rewards for a cosmetic achievement number.

Allowing you to skip several levels of instabilities? No. That’s just plain wrong.

Also, way to quote out of context Lilith. Do you have anything else to add to the discussion or are you just here to be flippant and clever? I don’t understand it. I don’t understand that the people most invested in fractals are the least interested in new challenges and new ways to prove themselves. I don’t understand how having the meaning of a single number changed somehow undoes any of that effort. I don’t understand how being reset to 30 because everything after 30 is different now is somehow nerfing progress.

You earned the right to get to the next fractal rank. You went there. You did it again, and again. That is the only thing that number has ever been good for. You earned your right to play whatever elite difficulty you are currently at. You still haven’t earned the right to make 31+ under the new system. No one has.

I am excited about the Change and yes reaction to Keep Levels might haven’t been the best answer. it is somehow a normal reaction if sombody takes somthing away from you withou good reasoning behind you say I wanna Keep it. The Problem is that they should have announced a reward we get in order to loose our Levels this would have not make rage on the Forums. so when you think it’s ok I get a unique reward for my Levels and start again new we have no reason to discuss since we are on the same Point.

Manuhell.2759:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I don’t really see how this is constructive. We are trying to give anet ideas, not give them more reasons to ignore us. Kindly be a little more positive, I like my thread and would like to see it continue.

Sorry, but i tend to expect the worst, i’m not exactly an optimist when it comes to human nature.
Still, the key point is that it would be a retroactive reward. Something like this should have been told far in advance. Especially since, unlike PvP, fractals weren’t an official competition (as i said, they want to make them a competition with the patch). And neither a race against the time – quite the opposite, infact, since we get ascended equip every now and then to further bolster agony resistance.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

well but a rage out of jalousy you can ignore better than a rage out of stealing Things from Players without compensation. as for you souldbound would be an Option since fractal Levels were soulbound pvp ranks were not.. and I told in my post as well idc if they give lvl 0-30 titles as well . I would just think it’s nice if you can have all titles for that 1 char like the lvl 10, 20 , 30 , 40, 50 , 60 ,70 ,80… because sometimes the lower titles are cooler to wear:)

But as i said, fractals were never a competition between players – unlike pvp.
Some may have considered them so, but not the developers – until the next patch, at least.
While it isn’t right to remove progress, neither is right to give a prize for something that wasn’t supposed to give prizes out of the blue, after making it unavailable for everyone else.
Basically, there isn’t a right solution. There will be somebody unsatisfied either way.
And as metrics go, they’re probably going for the way that makes less people unsatisfied.

I played while QP were out they never announced to give Special titles to the ppl with most QP if I knew I would have farmed more Points ( It was easy to farm it just a matter of time as soon as you only played 1 map not 3 ) But I’m fine with it I wasn’t into pvp at that time I would have gotten the title if they announced it before they dind’t … whats your Problem with not having a fractal title?

Tell me, for example Patrikan,

when the rest of the people lost the possibility to advance to fractal level 80 a while ago, did you come to the forums saying: “this is unfair towards those players”? Or did you just think “Hehe, lucky me”?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Look man, I’m not trying to get our levels to stay the same. I’m trying to have a good discussion. You’re the one who is devaluing hard work by saying its meaningless. I want titles and town clothes, and I’ve said it a million times. I’m here giving actual solutions, you’re just trying to make people feel bad.

I’m not here trying to make anyone feel bad. I started with a very simple bullet pointed post, and was attacked for it. I’m defending my opinion.

That “hard work” isn’t meaningless, but it shouldn’t be given more importance just because levels get reset.

I can see titles or cosmetic things being fair, but I don’t think they’re right. That’s simply attaching extra reward to a system that had no intrinsic reward to begin with, after you’ve already removed the ability to gain said reward.

That doesn’t seem right to me.

FOTM veterans above level 50 had some advantages and will keep some advantages. The higher your personal level the more daily chests you can obtain resulting in more income. They have higher chances for better loot.

Veterans have in most cases very high AR. Soon they do not have to care about gathering and building up AR. They can go straight away in aiming higher levels without being forced to hunt after AR drops and crafting new AR infusions. Veterans will therefore progress faster and reach level 50 faster.

In my opinion these are enough advantages.

Damaskinos.1263:

Tell me, for example Patrikan,

when the rest of the people lost the possibility to advance to fractal level 80 a while ago, did you come to the forums saying: “this is unfair towards those players”? Or did you just think “Hehe, lucky me”?

I was on the Forums saying it’s unfair to make the Content geargated so you coulnd’t advance as before yes I was!

Considering a lot of people got to the higher tiers through questionable methods I definitely do not agree with any sort of title or retroactive reward. It sends the wrong message. If you were one those people who exploited known glitches in order to speed clear fractal levels you are not entitled to anything beyond the initial rewards you reaped.

This content was broken. This content was exploited. And now it’s getting fixed so that fractals will offer a genuine challenge for the players interested in it.

Belenwyn.8674:

FOTM veterans above level 50 had some advantages and will keep some advantages. The higher your personal level the more daily chests you can obtain resulting in more income. They have higher chances for better loot.

Wvetrans have in most cases very high AR. In future they do not have to care about gathering and building up AR. They can go straight away aim higher levels without being forced to hunt after AR drops and crafting new AR infusions. Veterans will therefore progress faster and reach level 50 faster.

In my opinion these are enough advantages.

I have 15 AR at the Moment wich I woulnd’t consider high. I played to Level 80 before the January loot update so. The Money I made out of loot from 1-35 was less than the Money I made from loot from 35-81. The Option that I could have farmed daily chests with rewards that are lower than just playing wvw or any other part of the game is no Argument that got somthing out of it. I have 3.5k hours played no legendary so yeah I’m not rich.

So short:
-I don’t have AR Advantage
-I didn’t make any Money out of the loot I made less Money than I would with playing any other aspect of the game
- I didn’t farm it so I didn’t make Money out of it

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

Fungalfoot.7213:

Considering a lot of people got to the higher tiers through questionable methods I definitely do not agree with any sort of title or retroactive reward. It sends the wrong message. If you were one those people who exploited known glitches in order to speed clear fractal levels you are not entitled to anything beyond the initial rewards you reaped.

This content was broken. This content was exploited. And now it’s getting fixed so that fractals will offer a genuine challenge for the players interested in it.

I did not get higher with questionable methos I got higher with gamemechanics and you know that accusing ppl of using questionable mechanics or exploits is against the Code of Conduction.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

I played while QP were out they never announced to give Special titles to the ppl with most QP if I knew I would have farmed more Points ( It was easy to farm it just a matter of time as soon as you only played 1 map not 3 ) But I’m fine with it I wasn’t into pvp at that time I would have gotten the title if they announced it before they dind’t … whats your Problem with not having a fractal title?

As i said before, and at least three times, PvP is a competition.
People there were supposed to fight between themselves for a better ranking. The game itself was based on that.
Fractals never had a competitive side – at least one acknowledged ingame. Heh, there isn’t even a way to display your fractal level unless you bring someone alone at the entrance or inside fractals.
And as said before, they would have to put them retroactively, once the content isn’t available anymore. And that wouldn’t be right as well.
Basically, there isn’t a feasible choice that won’t enrage someone.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The simple fact of the matter is that no one “deserves” anything for having gotten to a high level Fractal. No one deserves to be rewarded, special, because they reached 50 or 80, because they did those things for their own purposes. It was a bragging right. It wasn’t officially supported by ANet, as indicated by the fact that those rewards didn’t already exist.

If you want to be recognized for your achievement open the fractal entry window and take a screenshot of your level, and cherish that for all time, because it’s the only thing you’ll ever have to remember those things, and it’s the only thing you deserve too.

so what if they said they never intended to let ppl have more than 30 Gold would you say hey take a screenshoot of your Money they never intended you to go there..

man this dungeon is designed till 80 with all Level scaling from Mobs and rewards from daily chests … so don’t tell we we’re never intended to go there it’s just not true…

WHY would anet design somthing if they don’t intend Players to go there?

It was a nonsensical argument in the other thread, and it’s still one in this thread. Gold and a Level in what amounts to a minigame are not relatable.

They DIDN’T design it for anything more than a thing to do. Fractals was an experiment, and the last almost year of them have been little more than Beta for the system since it turned out to be so successful.

You don’t get to keep your stuff from beta, and you often if not usually don’t get anything special for being in beta. Beta is over and they are actually making something of the game now. So everyone gets bumped back.

You’re not losing anything though. That’s why your gold analogy doesn’t make sense. Gold can be used to get things you want, Fractal Levels are good for nothing. And moving forward you won’t even be playing the same content that you were bumped back from.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kal Spiro.9745:

The simple fact of the matter is that no one “deserves” anything for having gotten to a high level Fractal. No one deserves to be rewarded, special, because they reached 50 or 80, because they did those things for their own purposes. It was a bragging right. It wasn’t officially supported by ANet, as indicated by the fact that those rewards didn’t already exist.

If you want to be recognized for your achievement open the fractal entry window and take a screenshot of your level, and cherish that for all time, because it’s the only thing you’ll ever have to remember those things, and it’s the only thing you deserve too.

so what if they said they never intended to let ppl have more than 30 Gold would you say hey take a screenshoot of your Money they never intended you to go there..

man this dungeon is designed till 80 with all Level scaling from Mobs and rewards from daily chests … so don’t tell we we’re never intended to go there it’s just not true…

WHY would anet design somthing if they don’t intend Players to go there?

It was a nonsensical argument in the other thread, and it’s still one in this thread. Gold and a Level in what amounts to a minigame are not relatable.

They DIDN’T design it for anything more than a thing to do. Fractals was an experiment, and the last almost year of them have been little more than Beta for the system since it turned out to be so successful.

You don’t get to keep your stuff from beta, and you often if not usually don’t get anything special for being in beta. Beta is over and they are actually making something of the game now. So everyone gets bumped back.

You’re not losing anything though. That’s why your gold analogy doesn’t make sense. Gold can be used to get things you want, Fractal Levels are good for nothing. And moving forward you won’t even be playing the same content that you were bumped back from.

Guess you can never give a good Argument to jalous tarnished cost guys who want to have everything without investing anything .. why you want a titel that your whatever legend of the fractals? why you want one just tell me? because you deserved it ? because you wanna Show of? because you wanna be an elitist ? I want somthing that reminds me of the time I spent there ingame wich is nice to look back even in 3 years or so. what is your reason you wanna have that reward as well?

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

And as someone who admittedly will lose no levels I also think that some little exclusive badges of honor (title, t-shirt, whatever) would be a really nice gesture from ANet for those well-leveled fractal folks while they go on with the new (and from the sound of it very promising) system.

Anyway I’m out for some time I can’t tell how sad it makes me to see that community of jalous People… and loads of guys blaming for me for no reason to be an exploiter when using a rez orb…

I want as well the Arena title it wasn’t mentioned and I want the legendaries ppl farmed while I was doing fractals … yeah I want those things.. but I wanna earn em as well.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

I did not get higher with questionable methos I got higher with gamemechanics and you know that accusing ppl of using questionable mechanics or exploits is against the Code of Conduction.

Yes, broken game mechanics. I’m not blaming the playerbase for this but the progression was completely broken and that’s why it’s now getting revamped. You’re losing your levels because you’ve yet to earn those levels in the new and fixed fractals.

You’ve still enjoyed the initial advantage of having those levels back when the content was easier. This isn’t being taken away from you. You’re just not getting a free ride with the new content and I frankly don’t see why you think you’re entitled to one.

VOLKON.1290:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

And as someone who admittedly will lose no levels I also think that some little exclusive badges of honor (title, t-shirt, whatever) would be a really nice gesture from ANet for those well-leveled fractal folks while they go on with the new (and from the sound of it very promising) system.

Yay VOLKON! I like seeing a little agreement here.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

I have 15 AR at the Moment wich I woulnd’t consider high. I played to Level 80 before the January loot update so. The Money I made out of loot from 1-35 was less than the Money I made from loot from 35-81. The Option that I could have farmed daily chests with rewards that are lower than just playing wvw or any other part of the game is no Argument that got somthing out of it. I have 3.5k hours played no legendary so yeah I’m not rich.

So short:
-I don’t have AR Advantage
-I didn’t make any Money out of the loot I made less Money than I would with playing any other aspect of the game
- I didn’t farm it so I didn’t make Money out of it

If 15 AR is enough for then you will be much faster at Level 50 than other people forced to accumulate more AR to progress. In your case this advantage remains.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

Giving a reward for something that wasn’t supposed to give a reward to start with isn’t right as well. As it would be retroactive and unavailable anymore, since they would have removed the content it was given in.
There won’t be a choice that will make all happy. Someone will be enraged anyway, and they just chose to make less people unsatisfied as possible, based on same metric.

The only right choice arrived to this point isn’t feasible anymore: postpone the content for several months and officially announce that getting to level X gives the title A or the thing B so that people interested can get those well knowing they won’t be available anymore later.
But it won’t happen. They should have thought about it quite some time ago.

So what’s the harm in trying now? There really isn’t a harm in asking. A lot of people keep saying losing the levels doesn’t harm anything, but neither does asking for a title or whatever, so that 3 years down the line those people will look at their title and say “yeah, I did that!”

Show a little love people!

Bottom line here is that you’re still keeping all your material rewards. ANet isn’t going to yoink away your bags, your ascended gear or anything else you gained while doing fractals. You retain all of this. All you’re losing here is a number. A number which no longer is relevant since the fractal progression system is being retooled.

Personally I perceive ANet going in and nerfing bag drops as a far bigger issue since this left many people who had farmed out thousands of bags but not yet opened them completely screwed over. And these people got absolutely NOTHING. Nope, I don’t think anyone is entitled to anything over this. You got your rewards.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

And as someone who admittedly will lose no levels I also think that some little exclusive badges of honor (title, t-shirt, whatever) would be a really nice gesture from ANet for those well-leveled fractal folks while they go on with the new (and from the sound of it very promising) system.

Yay VOLKON! I like seeing a little agreement here.

In all honesty, I’ve been on board with this from the beginning. I don’t mind at all giving these folks something I’ll never obtain because, to be fair, I didn’t earn it. The only real issues I have are with either pushing the new content so far out that most people won’t even bother trying to get to it or giving old style players a free pass past the new content – i.e. progress they hadn’t earned themselves against the new challenges.

I still like (at least the option of) the “and all I got was this lousy t-shirt” idea (maybe as a choice between two shirts?).

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

Nothing. There is nothing that you can ask for that is reasonable because it is not reasonable to ask for compensation for something like Fractal Level. It has nothing to do with compassion or understanding.

You are being reduced from your current difficulty level to the first level before all the other difficulty levels change to entirely new mechanics. So effectively you are in a level that will no longer exist, so you’re being moved to the first one that you’ve successfully completed that will still exist.

You don’t deserve to be compensated for that.

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

Moshari.8570:

Karma is a good point though….I will miss my 10K Karma from doing a low level run with friends. It helps me buy LOTS of stones for mystic forging and crafting ascended items….
However, as someone else put out there already, there are ways of getting karma….and with the new system it doesn’t sound like they are awarding that Karma bonus anymore anyways.

Manuhell.2759 What do you suggest then?

dont think they should really have been giving karma out past 50, due to the fact that it was only obtainable by buddying up for the past X months.

Honestly though i think they are going to take karma out of fractals, they have been serverly reducing karma everywhere else. Since they are apparently going to make the main transferable benefit for fractal be gold now, it probably will no longer have karma benefits.

VOLKON.1290:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

VOLKON.1290:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

And as someone who admittedly will lose no levels I also think that some little exclusive badges of honor (title, t-shirt, whatever) would be a really nice gesture from ANet for those well-leveled fractal folks while they go on with the new (and from the sound of it very promising) system.

Yay VOLKON! I like seeing a little agreement here.

In all honesty, I’ve been on board with this from the beginning. I don’t mind at all giving these folks something I’ll never obtain because, to be fair, I didn’t earn it. The only real issues I have are with either pushing the new content so far out that most people won’t even bother trying to get to it or giving old style players a free pass past the new content – i.e. progress they hadn’t earned themselves against the new challenges.

I still like (at least the option of) the “and all I got was this lousy t-shirt” idea (maybe as a choice between two shirts?).

I love that idea too. It’s hilarious, sad, and totally represents, I think, the high end pve crowd as a whole.

VOLKON.1290:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Fungalfoot.7213:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

This thread is not about the validity of personal reward level. It is about the reset. Keep it on topic, fungal.

I’d ask you to do the same considering you’re on here clamoring for titles and town clothes.

You got plenty of rewards out of doing high level fractals already. Why exactly do you think you deserve more?

We are discussing what we think we can reasonable ask for in compensation for our lost levels. Also, I wouldn’t get any of the rewards. So, I’m trying to show compassion for my fellow fractal player.

Why exactly are you so against showing compassion and understand toward those people who are losing something they will miss?

Nothing. There is nothing that you can ask for that is reasonable because it is not reasonable to ask for compensation for something like Fractal Level. It has nothing to do with compassion or understanding.

You are being reduced from your current difficulty level to the first level before all the other difficulty levels change to entirely new mechanics. So effectively you are in a level that will no longer exist, so you’re being moved to the first one that you’ve successfully completed that will still exist.

You don’t deserve to be compensated for that.

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

I honestly don’t have a problem with that. If ANet wanted to recognize it, then fine. The problem is that it seems pretty clear, based on everything that is going down, how they’re dealing with it, and the simple fact that they’re not bringing it up that they have no intention of doing that.

The problem I have is with the people that are acting like they deserve this and that ANet is obligated to do it for them. That I have a problem with, because it’s simply not true.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

So what’s the harm in trying now? There really isn’t a harm in asking. A lot of people keep saying losing the levels doesn’t harm anything, but neither does asking for a title or whatever, so that 3 years down the line those people will look at their title and say “yeah, I did that!”

Show a little love people!

And then some other people will see it and say "i was level X-1 and i couldn’t get that title because they introduced it once the content wasn’t available anymore and they never talked about rewards for our level anyway ".

It isn’t a matter of love – there just isn’t any feasible right choice, especially if we talk about giving titles or items that won’t be obtainable anymore later.

Any fair and right choice should have been taken either long ago – communicating to players with large advance about the fractal system change and telling about titles and items that wouldn’t be obtainable anymore – or would require them to postpone the patch for several months and doing the same thing described alone.

As things stand now, they are probably trying to make less people angry as possible.

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

And what of the people who had their bags nerfed and lost hundreds of gold because of it? What of the people who redeemed skins before they were made tradeable and got stuck with non tradeable versions? What of the people who did SAB tribulation mode before they made it way easier? These players got nothing. Why should fractal players enjoy a unique advantage over all of them when they don’t even lose anything tangible?

This isn’t the first time something is changed and it won’t be the last. That’s just the nature of an MMO. You don’t see World of WarCraft players complaining about the squish happening with the new expansion. In fact, most of them are celebrating it. Instead of obsessing over losing an irrelevant number why not be happy that fractals are finally going to get fixed?

There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?

Directed at manuhell

Kal Spiro.9745:

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

I honestly don’t have a problem with that. If ANet wanted to recognize it, then fine. The problem is that it seems pretty clear, based on everything that is going down, how they’re dealing with it, and the simple fact that they’re not bringing it up that they have no intention of doing that.

The problem I have is with the people that are acting like they deserve this and that ANet is obligated to do it for them. That I have a problem with, because it’s simply not true.

I don’t think we can fairly say that they have no intention of doing it now, regardless if that crossed their minds initially. I mean, look… both sides have (at least it appears so) come together with an agreement about what would be considered a nice, reasonable solution for the discontent. Come on, that’s a huge step. The first thread or four we made the U.S. House of Representatives look like Hello Kitty Island for Pete’s sake. It’s possible that right now a couple of folks in Seattle are designing the very first items in the =V= line of personal clothing!

Lilith Ajit.6173:

There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?

Directed at manuhell

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed. And knew already there were titles, so they were free to get them until the content lasted.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

Hahaha Volkon, you make me giggle. And I totally agree that the first few threads failed in getting cohesion. Glad to see some moderates working together (holy crap this happens?)

Faux.1937:

phys.7689:

Faux.1937:

I FULLY understand that it is Different content now, BUT this is a major slipper slope!!!!!
And I mean MAJOR!!!

If they are taking away levels, hard work, progress now b.c of the one reason “We want you to experience the new content” What to stop them from doing the same thing in other aspects of the game?

How would you like it if they took away all the pvp ranks for a new system, all the WvW ranks for a new system, your PVE character levels, all your crafting levels! B.c some new changes that they want you to Experience it from the start. Would you be ok with that? NO!

slippery slope means you have to be careful, it doesnt mean you cant do it. Like i said before, i believe devs have actually mentioned possibly reseting pvp rank, and some high end players have in fact asked for it.

also, the levels in fractals are not actually anything but markers, they allow you to warp to your previous level in the dungeon. 30+ is a new dungeon.

The real point of contention here should be the fact that they are removing content. The real beef is that they are removing the dungeon some people loved. They have decided that it is feasible to do so, and fits withing their evolving world idea. If you have a problem with that, you need to focus on that.

This discussion is a lot closer to the TA path discussion than people think. If TA path allowed you to permantly unlock waypoints, it would be almost exactly the same.

So really, what do you think about removing content and replacing the new, what should be done about people who were invested in the old. It is a slippery slope, but it still needs t be walked. What people should be discussing is how much is acceptable, and what to do about people who get left behind.

Also what are the developer benefits to replacing content versus adding to it? What goes into the design decision of what to keep and what to discard? Should new systems be designed to expand or evolve?

The levels in fractals are a big deal and you just saying they are markers making them seem to be nothing at all means you dont fully understand how important this is to the players. Look how many topics there are open it, look at what players are saying, read all the arguing, its a big deal.

So your saying, if they redo the crafting system, that all the work you put into the get all 8 crafts to 400-500, that you will be ok will all of it being reset to level 300? B.c level 300+ is being reworked?

That is what it sounds like to me, that your ok with anet making those changes when ever they want?

Im not going to talk about this anymore and hope anet says something about all this.

you totally miss my point

Im saying it is a big deal, but the big deal isnt really just about fractal levels.

I am also saying that just because its a hard line to walk doesnt mean the game doesnt have to walk it

Im saying to broaden your discussion from blind rage, to how to actually deal with reality that they need to improve and alter things that arent working and yet various people are invested in it in various ways.

Do you think they should never make a change that will impact anyones percieved reward or status?
What should be the limits if they do?
What are the costs if they dont make these changes?

In this specific case, i will say titles make sense, They show how far they went in old fractals
49th ? level Fractalist
32nd ? level Fractalist

Some may be mad they cant get these titles, but hey old fractals.

at the very least it is a nod to the people who went high in old fractals

perhaps they can allow people to continue on that path in a future update

Manuhell.2759:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

There are tons of titles not available anymore. Your point?

Directed at manuhell

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

But… Fractals is the original living story!

Fungalfoot.7213:

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

And what of the people who had their bags nerfed and lost hundreds of gold because of it? What of the people who redeemed skins before they were made tradeable and got stuck with non tradeable versions? What of the people who did SAB tribulation mode before they made it way easier? These players got nothing. Why should fractal players enjoy a unique advantage over all of them when they don’t even lose anything tangible? Instead of obsessing over losing an irrelevant number why not be happy that fractals are finally going to get fixed?

QFE

VOLKON.1290:

Kal Spiro.9745:

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

I honestly don’t have a problem with that. If ANet wanted to recognize it, then fine. The problem is that it seems pretty clear, based on everything that is going down, how they’re dealing with it, and the simple fact that they’re not bringing it up that they have no intention of doing that.

The problem I have is with the people that are acting like they deserve this and that ANet is obligated to do it for them. That I have a problem with, because it’s simply not true.

I don’t think we can fairly say that they have no intention of doing it now, regardless if that crossed their minds initially. I mean, look… both sides have (at least it appears so) come together with an agreement about what would be considered a nice, reasonable solution for the discontent. Come on, that’s a huge step. The first thread or four we made the U.S. House of Representatives look like Hello Kitty Island for Pete’s sake. It’s possible that right now a couple of folks in Seattle are designing the very first items in the =V= line of personal clothing!

Just as Fungal says, yes, I think we can say they have no intention.

Fungalfoot.7213:

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

And what of the people who had their bags nerfed and lost hundreds of gold because of it? What of the people who redeemed skins before they were made tradeable and got stuck with non tradeable versions? What of the people who did SAB tribulation mode before they made it way easier? These players got nothing. Why should fractal players enjoy a unique advantage over all of them when they don’t even lose anything tangible?

This isn’t the first time something is changed and it won’t be the last. That’s just the nature of an MMO. You don’t see World of WarCraft players complaining about the squish happening with the new expansion. In fact, most of them are celebrating it. Instead of obsessing over losing an irrelevant number why not be happy that fractals are finally going to get fixed?

Two questions for you.

1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?

2. What the heck is a “squish”?

Kal Spiro.9745:

VOLKON.1290:

I don’t think we can fairly say that they have no intention of doing it now, regardless if that crossed their minds initially. I mean, look… both sides have (at least it appears so) come together with an agreement about what would be considered a nice, reasonable solution for the discontent. Come on, that’s a huge step. The first thread or four we made the U.S. House of Representatives look like Hello Kitty Island for Pete’s sake. It’s possible that right now a couple of folks in Seattle are designing the very first items in the =V= line of personal clothing!

Just as Fungal says, yes, I think we can say they have no intention.

Well, OK, yes, you got me there, we can say it. However we have no idea as to whether or not that’s true.

VOLKON.1290:

Fungalfoot.7213:

VOLKON.1290:

I think the word “compensated” is the wrong word. “Recognized” fits much better. Let them have a well earned title, an article of clothing, a hat maybe… who knows. I can’t see any reason whatsoever to deny at least some form of permanent recognition.

And what of the people who had their bags nerfed and lost hundreds of gold because of it? What of the people who redeemed skins before they were made tradeable and got stuck with non tradeable versions? What of the people who did SAB tribulation mode before they made it way easier? These players got nothing. Why should fractal players enjoy a unique advantage over all of them when they don’t even lose anything tangible?

This isn’t the first time something is changed and it won’t be the last. That’s just the nature of an MMO. You don’t see World of WarCraft players complaining about the squish happening with the new expansion. In fact, most of them are celebrating it. Instead of obsessing over losing an irrelevant number why not be happy that fractals are finally going to get fixed?

Two questions for you.

1. How does a title and a t-shirt give them an advantage over anyone else?

2. What the heck is a “squish”?

1) The fractal people would have a unique advantage over the bag people and the SAB people in being compensated where they weren’t. Getting compensated even with a title is an advantage over someone in a similar situation but entirely different circumstance that didn’t.

2) I’m unfamiliar with WoW

Manuhell.2759:

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

This is a valid point. It would be terribly unfair to collectors if they threw in a title out of thin air and made it impossible for players to acquire it within a reasonable time frame.

No matter what they do here they will upset somebody. The best course of action is to simply let it be. I know I’ll be working on my levels as soon as the patch hits and I suspect the same applies to the most hardcore of fractal frequenters.

PopeUrban.2578:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Look man, I’m not trying to get our levels to stay the same. I’m trying to have a good discussion. You’re the one who is devaluing hard work by saying its meaningless. I want titles and town clothes, and I’ve said it a million times. I’m here giving actual solutions, you’re just trying to make people feel bad.

I’m not here trying to make anyone feel bad. I started with a very simple bullet pointed post, and was attacked for it. I’m defending my opinion.

That “hard work” isn’t meaningless, but it shouldn’t be given more importance just because levels get reset.

I can see titles or cosmetic things being fair, but I don’t think they’re right. That’s simply attaching extra reward to a system that had no intrinsic reward to begin with, after you’ve already removed the ability to gain said reward.

That doesn’t seem right to me.

i think of it more as a memento to commemorate how far they went, since the dungeon isnt there any more, its a record of what they achieved.

If they sank Orr again and wanted to give players who completed the map a viewable map of the former island for their personal instances, i think it would be fair.

Conceding the idea that they have to move forward and may sometimes have to destroy old content, you should also understand that in the same breath there will be unique things that only those who were there may have.
They have done it with dye, backpacks, masks etc.

If old fractals were there for a year and you didnt care enough to max it, why would you want a shirt that says i maxed fractals?

Fungalfoot.7213:

Manuhell.2759:

If you mean the living story ones – people knew in advance about said content getting removed.
Here we’re talking about rewarding content after it has been already removed.
Content that didn’t even give achievements for fractal levels, let alone titles.

This is a valid point. It would be terribly unfair to collectors if they threw in a title out of thin air and made it impossible for players to acquire it within a reasonable time frame.

No matter what they do here they will upset somebody. The best course of action is to simply let it be. I know I’ll be working on my levels as soon as the patch hits and I suspect the same applies to the most hardcore of fractal frequenters.

I think something has to give here, they can make it a hidden title you cant even see unless its unlocked, while its unfair to collectors that they didnt know ahead of time about it, its also unfair that people who did fractals up to 50 didnt know that it was going to be canceled and removed.

perhaps they can say old fractals will come back periodically, so people who really want those titles can work on them