Guild Wars 2

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Manuhell.2759:

PvP was all about competition and fighting for the top of the leaderboard, though. Fractals never encouraged that.

Yeah, right… When they released a dungeon with “infinite progression”, that was not encouraging us at all to go the further we can…

Seeing as there isn’t even a single achievement or title about fractal level or some way to make other people see your fractal level outside of inviting them and getting to the entrance of the dungeon, yeah.
And all the achievements can be got at personal reward level 3 (since you need to finish the second level at least).

laharl.8435:

phys.7689:

laharl.8435:

khani.4786:

SkyChef.5432:

You guys went to school? You invested your time to get certain degree? New curriculum introduced and they told you your degree no longer valid?
That’s the type of equity wiped make people upset. Real life & in game.
If you don’t understand this principle, I don’t have anything more to say.

That sort of stuff happens in real life too. You either learn the new content to refresh your degree/certification or you find a new line of work. So here you either learn the new mechanics they’re adding in at level 30 or you find another game/part of gw2 to play.

O rly!? In real life all your old degrees get deleted as if they never happened?

they dont delete them, it just doesnt give you any access to anything of value for having it. lets say you got certified in windows 95, thats pretty useless these days. In general your degree is only an entry point now, and you are expected to periodically upgrade it via either experience or further studies.

lets say you learned cadkey in college, now they use autodesk, unless you kept up, yur left behind.

Exactly. Just like we periodically upgraded our fractal level. If we didn’t keep up, we got left behind. Sorry, but older degrees don’t get deleted. Do you not list old degrees on a resume? You do. You even list degrees not associated with the job most of the time.

Nope, I don’t list any education older than 10 years ago and I don’t list anything not relevant to the job I’m applying for, it’s out dated or irrelevant. On my current resume no one can see I even had a college education, all they can see is I’ve worked with the largest bank in my country and been involved with a dozen or so of the largest grossing ecomm sites in my country (which ultimately is far more impressive than a college education), the fact my education was in a coding language that isn’t really used except for in legacy systems isn’t something employers are or would be interested in.

VOLKON.1290:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Awarding a title now would be unfair to all the people who didn’t push on beyond the point where pushing on was pointless.

Nonsense. They did what they did, earned what they earned, let ‘em have a title. The more challenging content is coming and a title won’t carry anyone through it. Odds are their skills will do them fine, but time will tell.

How is a useless title a reward?

ozma.3498:

Eszett.6950:

you don’t lose your progress (they are adding new things to the last 20 levels)

I fail to understand the logic behind this. Levels are being lost, regardless of whatever “gambits” get added or not. Besides, even if it’s just a number on the screen and access to high levels, progress is being reversed. That’s a sin in video games, especially MMOs. The fact that ArenaNet don’t realize this makes me think it may be time to quit playing, since I really don’t trust them anymore.

And what does these levels grant you that make you feel so hurt that they took them away? Harder content? They’re giving it to you already. Granted! I don’t know how diverse or hard it will be, but it’s new content. You will probably be able to get back at top level in no time anyways.

It’s not what the level grant us, it’s what it represents. It represent our dedication to fractals, the hundreds of hours we spent playing it. Much like a WvW or a PvP title, or some Legendaries on a character would represent.

Resetting it without any form of compensation or recognition of our dedication is like telling us: “you were idiots to spend so much time playing this part of our game, you should have stopped at level 30 and do CoF p1 to farm gold like everybody else.” This is quite insulting…

As for harder content being given… They’re not resetting the level 30 players, which should mean that new 30 should be about as difficult as old 30. And they said the difficulty curve would be “slightly less difficult”, so if the curve is smoother, level 50 difficulty will probably be less difficult than old 80. If that is the case, which it most probably is, we’ve been waiting for 10 months ! for a patch that would enable us to go to a harder difficulty, and what we get is a reset of our progress and lesser (although a bit different) difficulty ? And you still don’t understand how we could be kitten ed by that ?

Estriella Faerie.4029:

It’s not what the level grant us, it’s what it represents. It represent our dedication to fractals, the hundreds of hours we spent playing it. Much like a WvW or a PvP title, or some Legendaries on a character would represent.

Resetting it without any form of compensation or recognition of our dedication is like telling us: “you were idiots to spend so much time playing this part of our game, you should have stopped at level 30 and do CoF p1 to farm gold like everybody else.” This is quite insulting…

As for harder content being given… They’re not resetting the level 30 players, which should mean that new 30 should be about as difficult as old 30. And they said the difficulty curve would be “slightly less difficult”, so if the curve is smoother, level 50 difficulty will probably be less difficult than old 80. If that is the case, which it most probably is, we’ve been waiting for 10 months ! for a patch that would enable us to go to a harder difficulty, and what we get is a reset of our progress and lesser (although a bit different) difficulty ? And you still don’t understand how we could be kitten ed by that ?

I understand you re mad, but in really dealing with the issues, i think its good to isolate the issue from the anger.

What i gather so far is.
1)They are canceling the content you guys enjoyed and worked hard at
2)They are replacing it with a new version, which is supposed to be better, but it still isnt your old content, and most of what you did before will not advance you in the new content
3)The fact they arent even considering this makes you feel like they dont care about you re progress and think its fine to destroy it an anytime.

I think these are valid concerns

1)Anet believes in canceling and removing content if they feel its an improvement, or for the best. In someways this is good, but what can they do for those left behind?

2)Mostly because they have not branded the new content as a replacement, it leads people to want their progress retained. Its not being marketed as the New fractal mode, so people expect to have their old levels. I think arena net needs to be clear when they are removing or changing content drastically enough that old progression is lost, that they are introducing something new. Yes they will have to deal with people being upset things are taken away, but that is the problem they must deal with in 1)

3)This is important, the current perception based on the blog, is that they feel like this isnt a big deal, it doesnt need to be discussed, or dealt with. It strongly leads you to believe they are stating, this is the way its going to be, and it doesnt really matter how you feel about it. I think this is bad, if the company truely wants to make a evolving game, they will have to consider this key issue, how to deal with how people feel about what is gone. In LS they tend to give achievements, and unique items. They need to consider how to make the content they pass out the world not leaving gaping holes for their users

Romo.3709:

VOLKON.1290:

Accessibility. What good is the content if no one can get to it except for a vast minority of people? At level 30 most people have a reasonable shot to see the instabilities with a moderate bit of effort. Putting it at 50 shuts out the vast majority of players and would discourage many from even trying.

So does that make it right to take it away from us? Just so majority will be ok with it? It’s like saying that they’ll take away legendaries from minority, so majority can catch up to their accomplishments. Or resetting everyone’s achievement score and taking their right to rewards they unlocked, so everyone can “start at equal footing”. We worked hard to get to that level 50 while others were farming gold and getting rewarded for doing dungeons and such. Doesn’t matter how you look at it, it doesn’t make it right.

“That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” – Spock (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

This game doesn’t need more town clothes. They are a terrible idea but this is a different topic.
Going over level 50 wasn’t for rewards(spoiler: there aren’t any!)
Having the same title for everybody 50+ is messing up with people at 80.
Having different titles based on tiers is messing up on people who were going to progress but realized they didn’t have the time(1 week notice is bull..stuff).
Leaderboards are still in the area of “who cares?”.
Devs allowed people to progress to level 80. This is a non-issue. Putting a hardcap(i.e. straight up blocking, like 80+ is) on 50+ would justify others in screaming “exploit!”. Not the case.
Also, saying the majority can do whatever it wants and the minority has to accept it is pretty much how people used to justify racism/xenophobia/[insert discrimination criteria].
A real compensation would be to let people opt out of the ranking/leaderboards and allow them to keep leveling up to 80 or keep on doing level 79. Someone said somewhere they could just call these fractal 2.0 and make them a different instance which in my opinion is a great idea. Call it something awesome like “fractured fractals” or whatever if bone injuries are something epic apparently.
If the new instabilities or whatever are they called are more casual-friendly people who progressed to 80 will just plow right through them, get to 50 and say “now what?”. If they are harder then there’s no point in them since very few people will be able to actually do them hence not justifying the new content.
Most of the mmorpgs are already a gear grind fest and if they make GW2 the same thing people will just move to the more popular one(yes, I mean WoW). For people who desire skill/tactics there are already better options like LoL or something.
Bottom line, it’s going to become carebear casual land soon enough.

phys.7689:

3)This is important, the current perception based on the blog, is that they feel like this isnt a big deal, it doesnt need to be discussed, or dealt with. It strongly leads you to believe they are stating, this is the way its going to be, and it doesnt really matter how you feel about it. I think this is bad, if the company truely wants to make a evolving game, they will have to consider this key issue, how to deal with how people feel about what is gone. In LS they tend to give achievements, and unique items. They need to consider how to make the content they pass out the world not leaving gaping holes for their users

This is mostly it.

What we wanted from this fractal patch we were waiting for almost 10 months is quite simple:
- correct the bugs in the fractals (invulnerable harpies, etc.)
- trying to make the maps more balanced (reduce length of dredge for ex)
- a way to get the skin you want without being totaly dependant on luck (a friend got the weapon he needed as his 40-50th drop…)
- some new maps if possible
- enabling higher levels, if possible even higher difficulty than actual lvl 80

Some of this was including in this patch. But some of the things go in the wrong direction, like the cap at 50. Fractals is a very good dungeon because it has levels. That way, people can try to challenge themselves, and go to the level range they find ok for them. Some will want easy runs and stay at low levels, some will want some difficulty and will go at the middle range, and some want to challenge themselves, to go the highest possible. Right now, the problem is the cap is preventing the ones who want to challenge themselves to do so. Level 80 is hard, but it is still far from the limits of the best players, like some people proved it with videos (archdiviner 1vs1, grawl shaman naked, dredge suit 2vs1, …). We hoped we would be able to challenge ourselves with the release of this patch, and we fear we won’t be. If the difficulty scaling has “a slighly less difficult curve” than before, level 50 will most likely be easier than old 80.

We’ll have to see if the new “instabilities” will make the runs interesting, we can’t have any opinion on it as nobody has any info about it. But to people who think high level fractals was exactly the same thing than lower levels with just higher level mobs, it just wasn’t that way. The damage taken was so high that different strategies had to be used, that you needed to understand things that didn’t matter at all at lower levels. How many groups did I taught that golems on asura fractals had to be killed in a specific order if you didn’t want the remaining ones to get a powerful buff…

Anyway, i can understand why they would choose to begin this at level 30, as it is a level that should be attained with relative ease by most people who focus a bit on it.

But some features are quite problematic:
- Account bound level and rewards. I have no problem with account bound level in itself, but it doesn’t give us much, as we could already reroll on an alt anytime we wanted. Account bound reward, on the other hand, means doing more than one fractal a day will give probably give us crappy reward, so a waste of time. This gives 2 problems: first to the hardcore players, who were doing 4-6 runs a day with our alts. Guess i can now cut my game time in half. But also to other players. When we do 4-6 runs, we don’t always do it with guildies or friend list. I usually did one run with friends, others i was pugging. Now, if i do only one run, i won’t pug at all, and i won’t be the only one to do so. That’s a loss of available players to complete the higher levels for people who don’t have a big friendlist, and finding players at higher levels on pug will probably be much harder than before.

- Exclusive reward for higher levels being a tonic, while the weapons (which were, back in the day, said by Anet to be rare “on purpose”, so that having them could have some meaning to fractal players) are made available at 10 now (20 before).

- Fractal weapons becoming skins (this is good), not being retroactive (this is bad). Let’s hope they give us an npc to trade our old weapons against new skins, like they did with the infinite gathering tools, but i’m quite afraid they’ll force us to buy gems for transmutation crystals…

- Level cap and unlimited AR. That’s just gear-gating. Where did the “Skill > Stuff” go ? :’(

- Level reset.
They could have handled this much much better. First, they present it like it’s needed to have a fair competition in the leaderboard. So let’s talk about the leaderboard. What will it record ? I can’t see anything recorded that would have a meaning. Best time ? Nobody would ever allow anything but guardian, warrior and mesmer in their teams (maybe one thief to gain some time by skipping some packs ?). And I personnaly don’t think doing a perfect run has anything to do with speed. Especially in a dungeon with random maps. Lowest number of down state ? In the end, everyone tied at 0. Most mobs killed ? Dredge + Ascalon + Colossus = I win. Highest AR ? So that the one on top is the one who’s allowed to not dodge and just tank the damage like a noob ?The only thing which would have a meaning is highest level beaten. But it only has meaning if there’s no cap on the fractal level. If you cap it, everyone will be tied at first place in the end.

So the reason they use to justify the reset our level is just pointless as it is. Like Wethospu and others said before, why not let us keep our level ? If the difficulty is too high (and we hope it is), we’ll just wipe and go below to a level we can clear.

If they really insist on resetting us, then they really need to work on their PR skills. What most of us is asking as a compensation for this reset is not that much. What we want is some recognition from Anet. For months, we farmed some of the most buggy content in the game (harpies going invulnerable, npc at ascalonian fractal not always rezzing with us after a full wipe, the endless clown car filled with five hundreds dredges, …), and we almost never got any answer to those problems.

Wiping our progress like this, with nothing given in exchange, with not even giving any answer at all after multiple threads and more than 1500 posts on them, is really telling us that we don’t matter at all. We should just shut up and forget about it ? Like I said before, it’s like telling us that we wasted hundreds of hours of our time for nothing (and before someone said we got rewards, we could have gotten at least ten times more by farming CoF like most people did).

Edit: Sorry for double post, but message was too long…

aight here goes!

First of all I would like to say that I do not think people think they “should” be compensated in any way. it would be nice but by no means are you entitled to any form of compensation. Upon playing the game, I think it was first entering or making an account, you agreed to the Terms of Service. That massive wall of text no one ever bothers to read but says that they can do whatever the hell they want with their game :P

Secondly I think the level reset is because of 2 things. The leaderboards which I still do not understand and the mistlock instabilities which are added after 30. I am on lvl 50 myself and yeah, it sucks to get ported back, but if this makes things more fun, why the hell not? For those on level 80…well….yeah….you’ll get there again :P

This mistlock instability thing can either make it or break it. The gold reward n such is going to be nice. Hell, if you do fractals regularly already, it won’t be a problem getting back up your high kitten stroking level anyway! I know it won’t take me much time.

I do think the developers should respond for a change, instead of warning about the forum rules etc. That would be a nice change of pace :P

Just wait and see how it plays out.

Faux.1937:

IDK about you, But the problem is they are taking away progression earned by players, again, what is there to stop them from just taking away progression from the players in all parts of the game.

Crafting
Character levels
Pvp ranks
WvW ranks
Ascended Items gained
Legendaries
Achievement Points

All b.c they want us to play with the changes from the start. But there will always be changes, there will always be players past the start, that doesnt mean you get pushed back b.c we didnt experience it 100% the way it was changed.

Alright, lets be honest here. None of those levels have a cap that is being unintentionally crossed. We don’t have people reaching crafting level 500+, and having THAT progress reset. If that were the case, you’d have a valid comparison.

But as it is, all they are doing is resetting the fractal levels of people who already got all their rewards from doing those levels, but were never meant to reach those levels.

Let me emphasize that, you already got your rewards!

What? We were never meant to reach scale 50?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

But as it is, all they are doing is resetting the fractal levels of people who already got all their rewards from doing those levels, but were never meant to reach those levels.

Let me emphasize that, you already got your rewards!

What rewards? Pretty much any other content was more rewarding than fractals, especially doing odd levels and not even getting the daily chest. I could have mindlessly zerged open world events and have 100s of gold rather than watch my amount of gold barely move for weeks and have my progress wiped with no warning.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

But some features are quite problematic:
- Account bound level and rewards….

…Sorry for double post, but message was too long…

Some good points, i too feel like the daily reward system tends to discourage doing something multiple times. They should probably start to put some lower chance at good stuff in these chests.

now on the fractal thing, I think they should stay at the same rarity as before, It wasnt really THAT hard to see a fractal weapon. it might be hard to get what you want, but looks like higher level ones will have boxes. But you have to remember the dev said he didnt change the droprate, only that it was a skin. while i dont knw if any one got any in the 10 range, (i didnt) its possible it was just a super low rate.

far as the leaderboards, you mentioned some of my ideas, while it may be unfeasible due to glut of info, when i say number of mobs killed/completion rating. It would be a specific number for each fractal, PSO had a system where it had two ways to get. minimal enemies killed, and a max number, respawning enemies didnt count for the latter. So you could get 100% complete by killing 25 required enemies, or by killing 847. Lowest number defeated is fine, because it still puts an element of challenge there (downed is fine, you havent lost until you are defeated) note that these stats would be per level. So it might look like
level 41 clear, completion 98%, Team deaths 0, best time 18 min
level 42 clear completion 60%, Team deaths 2, best time 13 min.
they could remove time, but trust that even though people would eventually max out, they would all have earned the right to claim to be on the same level.

I have t disagree with the wipe issue, it really does depend on what they mean with the instabilities, the blog makes it sound like each level has its own specific instability, in which case the difficulty difference between levels will not be linear. Just like in the guantlet some enemies were harder for some classes than others, and some of the gambits as well. Though they were in a certain order, memorizing and defeating liadri, didnt mean that same charachter wouldnt wipe to one of the previous fights repeatedly as well.

Many people would simply skip anything in the middle, especially if it is difficult, Take for example almost every single dungeon and fractal run, where you run by/ignore/go around the most difficult fights/mechanics.

If there is unique content at each level, reset is justified. That said it might not be the end of the world for you to get a free pass. but its not really justified if the content is different

About the tonic, if its the type that allows you to fight and play in that form, its actually a really good cosmetic bragging item reward. Running around as Mossman or Mai and killing things will probably be considered pretty leet.

100% not against you getting a title
not for keeping reward level if content is very different, but wont be mad
Believe that no matter what the devs should say what their thinking is, and what can players expect to be left with when content is removed for something new. I think mementos, or special benefits is not necessarily out of hand. Lets say the create a special starting room only available to people who lost levels or have hit the new 50, with various easter eggs, some training fight rooms/events etc. They could also give people who hit the new 50, or lost levels a bonus chest at whatever their level they beat, once a day.

There are ways to ease people, or offer them something. It can be something that can be worked towards now, but they get right away.

As far as giving any benefit for things beyond 50, i think anet needs to come out and say whether it was intended gameplay or not, if it was then people should be considered, if it was not, then anet has to explain why they took so long to explain/comment/patch the situation.

phys.7689:

Many people would simply skip anything in the middle, especially if it is difficult, Take for example almost every single dungeon and fractal run, where you run by/ignore/go around the most difficult fights/mechanics.

I have to disagree with you on this, because people WILL skip the difficult levels anyway.

As long as they still let us launch any level we want with friends, if the level 46 for example is pretty hard, but 47 is ok, what stops anyone from making an LFG like this : “LFG 4 more for 47 (need someone to open)” ? As long as one group make it, they can then allow everyone to bypass the difficult point.

If the difficulty doesn’t go crescendo with each level, you can be pretty sure you’ll see this.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

phys.7689:

Many people would simply skip anything in the middle, especially if it is difficult, Take for example almost every single dungeon and fractal run, where you run by/ignore/go around the most difficult fights/mechanics.

I have to disagree with you on this, because people WILL skip the difficult levels anyway.

As long as they still let us launch any level we want with friends, if the level 46 for example is pretty hard, but 47 is ok, what stops anyone from making an LFG like this : “LFG 4 more for 47 (need someone to open)” ?

If the difficulty doesn’t go crescendo with each level, you can be pretty sure you’ll see this.

this would be the advantage of them having level specific leader boards and/or achievements/titles. If instabilities is unique to level, and they have a title for beating all instabilities, that type of title would only belong to the people who really play the all the levels.

Of course reward scaling would still be awarded for skipping, perhaps if the title also confers better rates…
anyhow we ll see how far ahead they have thought soon enough

Protoavis.9107:

“That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” – Spock (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

Understandable conclusion. But given the current situation and how it’s being handled, where do you draw the line? At this point they can simply wipe off any progress in any content. They can wipe everyone to level 20 in WvW and say it’s a “new” version of WvW where you’ll be rewarded more. They can implement those new gametypes in PvP they were broadcasting in last stream and wipe everyone’s progress. And all simply by stating it’s a “new” PvP and the system is different. None of those would be ok, so why does it make this particular wipe right? Just because you didn’t take as much of a part in it as some of us involved, doesn’t make it any less important to us. If that would happen with PvP or WvW we would stand by you, all understanding that this is wrong regardless if it would put us, fractal players at “equal footing” with you guys.

I’m having a hard time understanding why other players think it’s ok. We are all players in the same game, and if something like this is happening we should stand together on this. There’s a whole community that’s being hurt by the update that will be forgotten within a week or two by most people not involved in fractals at this point in time. And yet it is ok to shove us aside because of majority’s “improvement”.

Yes, you guys are getting more rewards and better things, but at the cost of others loosing them. And unlike the inside traders at the Trading Post, we worked hard to get where we are.

That being said, all of us that worked hard, see no point in working hard anymore. What’s the point? We can get to level 50 within 2 weeks anyway. But what for? Tonic that’s an RNG drop? Level progression? What’s the point, when the progression can be wiped out next year with Fractals 3.0 where they’ll want to get everyone on “equal footing” again. The sense of progression and achieving higher levels of challenge is lost at this point, since it can be taken away at any second. And if you’re ok with this, you’ll be ok with WvW and PvP reset. It’s just a matter of time now., since you’re clearly showing Anet that this is ok as long as it benefits the majority.

Romo.3709:

Protoavis.9107:

“That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.” – Spock (Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan)

Understandable conclusion. But given the current situation and how it’s being handled, where do you draw the line? At this point they can simply wipe off any progress in any content. They can wipe everyone to level 20 in WvW and say it’s a “new” version of WvW where you’ll be rewarded more. They can implement those new gametypes in PvP they were broadcasting in last stream and wipe everyone’s progress. And all simply by stating it’s a “new” PvP and the system is different. None of those would be ok, so why does it make this particular wipe right? Just because you didn’t take as much of a part in it as some of us involved, doesn’t make it any less important to us. If that would happen with PvP or WvW we would stand by you, all understanding that this is wrong regardless if it would put us, fractal players at “equal footing” with you guys.

I’m having a hard time understanding why other players think it’s ok. We are all players in the same game, and if something like this is happening we should stand together on this. There’s a whole community that’s being hurt by the update that will be forgotten within a week or two by most people not involved in fractals at this point in time. And yet it is ok to shove us aside because of majority’s “improvement”.

Yes, you guys are getting more rewards and better things, but at the cost of others loosing them. And unlike the inside traders at the Trading Post, we worked hard to get where we are.

That being said, all of us that worked hard, see no point in working hard anymore. What’s the point? We can get to level 50 within 2 weeks anyway. But what for? Tonic that’s an RNG drop? Level progression? What’s the point, when the progression can be wiped out next year with Fractals 3.0 where they’ll want to get everyone on “equal footing” again. The sense of progression and achieving higher levels of challenge is lost at this point, since it can be taken away at any second. And if you’re ok with this, you’ll be ok with WvW and PvP reset. It’s just a matter of time now., since you’re clearly showing Anet that this is ok as long as it benefits the majority.

If its actually fun, that would be the best reason to do it. If you dont wont to work hard anymore nothing they can really do.

i would have kept your levels, but i would also have expanded fractals variety while leveling.

phys.7689:

If its actually fun, that would be the best reason to do it. If you dont wont to work hard anymore nothing they can really do.

i would have kept your levels, but i would also have expanded fractals variety while leveling.

Now if they told you they’re resetting your WvW level progress to 0, because they made it more “fun”. What would you say?

What I’m trying to say that after this update the sense of progression is lost. Ok, you reach level 50 in fractals? Now what? Wait for them to reset your progress again, so you can have more “fun”? The sense of accomplishment is diminished since you progress can be wiped at any time. I’m baffled why you’re ok with this? Why not just raise the fractal level cap, instead of taking a huge step back? Look at the bigger picture. Beyond the update on Tuesday. If this is ok, everything is fair game now. They can stop at nothing as long as they have some people supporting them.

What’s all this about removing progress? No one is losing any progress.

We’re just losing access to something that doesn’t exist anymore. Just like, for example, we lost access to the waypoints we unlocked in the Bazaar of the Four Winds map when that map was removed.

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

Romo.3709:

phys.7689:

If its actually fun, that would be the best reason to do it. If you dont wont to work hard anymore nothing they can really do.

i would have kept your levels, but i would also have expanded fractals variety while leveling.

Now if they told you they’re resetting your WvW level progress to 0, because they made it more “fun”. What would you say?

What I’m trying to say that after this update the sense of progression is lost. Ok, you reach level 50 in fractals? Now what? Wait for them to reset your progress again, so you can have more “fun”? The sense of accomplishment is diminished since you progress can be wiped at any time. I’m baffled why you’re ok with this? Why not just raise the fractal level cap, instead of taking a huge step back? Look at the bigger picture. Beyond the update on Tuesday. If this is ok, everything is fair game now. They can stop at nothing as long as they have some people supporting them.

raising fractal level cap is not the best direction for fractals at this time, its not the most important thing. It wouldnt benefit fractals much. If this update only increased the cap the vast majority of players would not care. Problem is intermediate level fractals offer no feeling of accomplishment for most players. It feels like the same thing they have done before. this is one of the reason most fractal players never hit 50, its not only about how hard it is, its about how interesting it is. having people have to play extremely repetetive content to get to interesting things is a bad design.

Im not saying they should delete your levels, but it wouldnt have improved playablity or interest in fractals much if new content required going to 50 first, and definately not 80.

They are attempting to fix a design flaw here.

As far as progress, its subjective, to me fractal numbers were never that important, i mostly wanted to see the new mechanics, the random maps, and chance at some good drops, its an interesting map cause its randomized, and up to a point going higher changes strategies. after that who care.

As for WvW rank, i barely care, its a nice bonus and something to aim for but its more about the fight. PvP rank also something to aim for and unlock appearances, but dont really care much. Rank/leader boards never been very important to me. I feel bad for you guys mostly because they are killing the type of content you enjoyed, linear difficulty scaling dungeon, and you may never get a chance to face such odds. I wish they had content to cater to you, and you could go as far as you wanted with it. but this patch sounds like it could improve fractals as a whole, in the long run. There may still be possibilities that dont destroy you re progress totally

Estriella Faerie.4029:

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

I wouldn’t, because I consider every hour I play a reward in itself. I’ll never be in a position to regret spending time on a game, because I’ll have enjoyed spending that time.

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s all this about removing progress? No one is losing any progress.

We’re just losing access to something that doesn’t exist anymore. Just like, for example, we lost access to the waypoints we unlocked in the Bazaar of the Four Winds map when that map was removed.

So you’re saying fractals don’t exist anymore? Fractals 1.0, you call it? Then why are we level 30 then, why not go all the way and set everyone at 0? Because according to your “logic” we didn’t gain access to level 30 in Fractals 2.0 Why weren’t we told that Fractals 1.0 is being “removed”. All we ever wanted was rasied level cap and maybe some more maps along with rewards. We never asked for this.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

I wouldn’t, because I consider every hour I play a reward in itself. I’ll never be in a position to regret spending time on a game, because I’ll have enjoyed spending that time.

Let me you tell you a secret. You are not the only one playing this game. There are also… other people!

phys.7689:

raising fractal level cap is not the best direction for fractals at this time, its not the most important thing. It wouldnt benefit fractals much. If this update only increased the cap the vast majority of players would not care. Problem is intermediate level fractals offer no feeling of accomplishment for most players. It feels like the same thing they have done before. this is one of the reason most fractal players never hit 50, its not only about how hard it is, its about how interesting it is. having people have to play extremely repetetive content to get to interesting things is a bad design.

Im not saying they should delete your levels, but it wouldnt have improved playablity or interest in fractals much if new content required going to 50 first, and definately not 80.

They are attempting to fix a design flaw here.

As far as progress, its subjective, to me fractal numbers were never that important, i mostly wanted to see the new mechanics, the random maps, and chance at some good drops, its an interesting map cause its randomized, and up to a point going higher changes strategies. after that who care.

As for WvW rank, i barely care, its a nice bonus and something to aim for but its more about the fight. PvP rank also something to aim for and unlock appearances, but dont really care much. Rank/leader boards never been very important to me. I feel bad for you guys mostly because they are killing the type of content you enjoyed, linear difficulty scaling dungeon, and you may never get a chance to face such odds. I wish they had content to cater to you, and you could go as far as you wanted with it. but this patch sounds like it could improve fractals as a whole, in the long run. There may still be possibilities that dont destroy you re progress totally

So you obviously do not care for either fractal, wvw or pvp. But you’re forgetting that there are thousands of people that actually do care about these things. And they spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours to get where they’re at. Maybe raising the cap level is not the best option for you. But for us it would be a great option. Just because you don’t care, it doesn’t make it justifiable.

Wethospu.6437:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

I wouldn’t, because I consider every hour I play a reward in itself. I’ll never be in a position to regret spending time on a game, because I’ll have enjoyed spending that time.

Let me you tell you a secret. You are not the only one playing this game. There are also… other people!

When asked about how I would see things, I answer how I see things. Odd, right?

I don’t know if this has already been suggested as there are 10 pages of responses here and I haven’t gone through all of them. But would a compensation of some form of agony resistance corresponding to your personal reward level pre-patch be interesting/adequate/sooth the rage? I don’t know how much more they can do before the level reset happens.

What would be the point of more AR ? They said that the need of AR for 40-49 would be lower than it is for now. And we already have way too much AR for those levels. Since the first groups did those levels, AR has almost doubled. So if the need for AR is lower than before, giving us AR would be pointless.

We gave some ideas about forms of recognition they could offer (titles for level previously acheived for example) before in the thread, as it’s obvious that they won’t back down from resetting our levels. But at the very least, a dev posting here to show that they have at least some form of concern to our situation is needed. It’s been 4 days already that they’ve been “collecting feedback”, as the Community coordinator said. In those 4 days, there’s been multiple threads, over 1600 posts written, but no one has come here to state their opinion over this (and as it’s week-end now, nobody won’t for a while…). Do we have to wait for their stream monday to question them about it for us to finally have an answer ? This is quite sad.

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s all this about removing progress? No one is losing any progress.

We’re just losing access to something that doesn’t exist anymore. Just like, for example, we lost access to the waypoints we unlocked in the Bazaar of the Four Winds map when that map was removed.

We actually do lose progress. We have to do scale 30 again even though it will be practically the same old scale 30 as before.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

Do we have to wait for their stream monday to question them about it for us to finally have an answer ? This is quite sad.

Haa. Good luck with that. You’ll be automatically put into delay. And they will not answer anything they don’’t want to answer.

Romo.3709:

phys.7689:

raising fractal level cap is not the best direction for fractals at this time, its not the most important thing. It wouldnt benefit fractals much. If this update only increased the cap the vast majority of players would not care. Problem is intermediate level fractals offer no feeling of accomplishment for most players. It feels like the same thing they have done before. this is one of the reason most fractal players never hit 50, its not only about how hard it is, its about how interesting it is. having people have to play extremely repetetive content to get to interesting things is a bad design.

Im not saying they should delete your levels, but it wouldnt have improved playablity or interest in fractals much if new content required going to 50 first, and definately not 80.

They are attempting to fix a design flaw here.

As far as progress, its subjective, to me fractal numbers were never that important, i mostly wanted to see the new mechanics, the random maps, and chance at some good drops, its an interesting map cause its randomized, and up to a point going higher changes strategies. after that who care.

As for WvW rank, i barely care, its a nice bonus and something to aim for but its more about the fight. PvP rank also something to aim for and unlock appearances, but dont really care much. Rank/leader boards never been very important to me. I feel bad for you guys mostly because they are killing the type of content you enjoyed, linear difficulty scaling dungeon, and you may never get a chance to face such odds. I wish they had content to cater to you, and you could go as far as you wanted with it. but this patch sounds like it could improve fractals as a whole, in the long run. There may still be possibilities that dont destroy you re progress totally

So you obviously do not care for either fractal, wvw or pvp. But you’re forgetting that there are thousands of people that actually do care about these things. And they spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours to get where they’re at. Maybe raising the cap level is not the best option for you. But for us it would be a great option. Just because you don’t care, it doesn’t make it justifiable.

its a bad option for fractals as a whole. Do you know why so many people never go past 30, for real? its because there is nothing new past 30. Its not because 31 is so much harder. keep in mind every mode, every facet of the game is competing for developer time. If only 10% of the population goes past 30 after a year, and only 2% go up to 40, and only .001% hit 50. It becomes hard to justify spending dev time on that content. This is the reality.

Fixing mid range difficulty means, if its successful, they can justify new high range difficulty content. Now i still think they should have expanded without cutting, but really you dont seem to really be engaged in problem solving, you are just saying you want your old fractals back, and you want higher levels, and whatever problems fractals have below that is just tough luck. Its a valid point of view, but i personally dont think it would actually help fractals at all in the long run. It would just make fractals less popular and then devs would barely update it at all.

and to put clearly i dont care for the ranks. I dont care about dungeon master TITLE i get it because i want to see all the paths. I do fractals when i need relics, and because i want some skins, and used to do it initially for challenge, and to see the new interesting content. I slowed down when i noticed nothing much was going to change.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Wethospu.6437:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

I wouldn’t, because I consider every hour I play a reward in itself. I’ll never be in a position to regret spending time on a game, because I’ll have enjoyed spending that time.

Let me you tell you a secret. You are not the only one playing this game. There are also… other people!

When asked about how I would see things, I answer how I see things. Odd, right?

Odd is how you think you can answer how others see things.

…and i’m still waiting celestial/mf refound xD

Wethospu.6437:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Wethospu.6437:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Estriella Faerie.4029:

If you’d have to spend hundred of hours to unlock those waypoints, maybe you would see our point…

I wouldn’t, because I consider every hour I play a reward in itself. I’ll never be in a position to regret spending time on a game, because I’ll have enjoyed spending that time.

Let me you tell you a secret. You are not the only one playing this game. There are also… other people!

When asked about how I would see things, I answer how I see things. Odd, right?

Odd is how you think you can answer how others see things.

Odd why you think I did. Because I didn’t.

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s all this about removing progress? No one is losing any progress.
—

There you go.

I was wondering what is John Smith input into this? He at least has certain required education & expertise to see how this could evolved?

haviz.1340:

We actually do lose progress. We have to do scale 30 again even though it will be practically the same old scale 30 as before.

Really? Can you fill me on what the mistlock instabilities are then? Because I’ve been wondering…

Nike.2631:

Really? Can you fill me on what the mistlock instabilities are then? Because I’ve been wondering…

Sure man.

Upcoming Changes for the Fractals of the Mists

Every level starting at 31 will have a new instability to conquer.

And they do what, precisely?

Nike.2631:

And they do what, precisely?

haviz.1340:

We actually do lose progress. We have to do scale 30 again even though it will be practically the same old scale 30 as before.

Upcoming Changes for the Fractals of the Mists

Every level starting at 31 will have a new instability to conquer.

You had to misunderstood me. We are being reset to scale 30 while new mechanics start from 31 onwards. We still need to do scale 30 which will be the same as the old one (or even easier).

Wethospu.6437:

Manasa Devi.7958:

What’s all this about removing progress? No one is losing any progress.
—

There you go.

Can you explain in what way that message goes beyond stating my own opinion? You accuse me of “answering how others see things”, and I don’t quite see how the statement you quoted did that. The two bolded words don’t give me any clue whatsoever.

That was just my opinion. Stop accusing me of accusing you. Or are you the only one who has the right to have opinions?

Am I accusing you now? I thought I was just asking a very reasonable question.

Romo.3709:

phys.7689:

If its actually fun, that would be the best reason to do it. If you dont wont to work hard anymore nothing they can really do.

i would have kept your levels, but i would also have expanded fractals variety while leveling.

Now if they told you they’re resetting your WvW level progress to 0, because they made it more “fun”. What would you say?

I’d be ok with that, in part because I find it poorly implemented to start with (wvw has many faults that are in need to attention) and realistically the vast majority of it’s current implementation is only showing “who’s being following the zerg the most”

Perhaps you are. But I hope you can imagine the outrage from the other people.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Am I accusing you now? I thought I was just asking a very reasonable question.

Well, are you? How could I know? I see. You only want this topic locked.

Romo.3709:

So you’re saying fractals don’t exist anymore? Fractals 1.0, you call it? Then why are we level 30 then, why not go all the way and set everyone at 0? Because according to your “logic” we didn’t gain access to level 30 in Fractals 2.0 Why weren’t we told that Fractals 1.0 is being “removed”. All we ever wanted was rasied level cap and maybe some more maps along with rewards. We never asked for this.

You have a good point.

I think only raising the level cap, more maps and rewards without the reset wouldn’t offend anyone.
They even could implement the mistlock abilities without resetting everyones fractal level.

The only reason for the reset they name are the leaderboards.
I can totally understand why you’d want to reset it for the leaderboards.
The problem with this is that there are more players that will lose alot progress then players that want the leaderboards.

I allready explained that leaderboards are a really bad idea.
I’ts a player rank for a team effort resulting in groups being at the same rank.
The number of fractal levels (max 50) is limiting the amount of ranks alot.
Increasing the fractal lvl cap later will also cause problems for the leaderboards.

I understand why they did this.. 80 lvls are just 2 much for new comers and this update makes it alot easier for new players , BUTTTT it really hurt the people that were allready deep into it , ( lvl 80 , more then 1 class on 40-50+ etc… ), only thing i can think of to make some peace with the players is some sort of a reward per each proffesion rised to high fractals, just not something silly ^^ because it will be another slap to the face of the people that are allready sad about all the “time wipe” : X

crouze.3078:

Romo.3709:

So you’re saying fractals don’t exist anymore? Fractals 1.0, you call it? Then why are we level 30 then, why not go all the way and set everyone at 0? Because according to your “logic” we didn’t gain access to level 30 in Fractals 2.0 Why weren’t we told that Fractals 1.0 is being “removed”. All we ever wanted was rasied level cap and maybe some more maps along with rewards. We never asked for this.

You have a good point.

I think only raising the level cap, more maps and rewards without the reset wouldn’t offend anyone.
They even could implement the mistlock abilities without resetting everyones fractal level.

The only reason for the reset they name are the leaderboards.
I can totally understand why you’d want to reset it for the leaderboards.
The problem with this is that there are more players that will lose alot progress then players that want the leaderboards.

I allready explained that leaderboards are a really bad idea.
I’ts a player rank for a team effort resulting in groups being at the same rank.
The number of fractal levels (max 50) is limiting the amount of ranks alot.
Increasing the fractal lvl cap later will also cause problems for the leaderboards.

If Anet gave us what we wanted scarlet would be dead already