Guild Wars 2

Dondarrion.2748:

[snip]

Don’t exaggerate, it makes you look rather silly.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

That’s like saying:
“In our survey of Ford, GM, and Toyota vehicles, we have declared that no Ford, GM, or Toyota products are vehicles. Therefore, there have been no vehicle recalls for these companies.”
So no, it totally doesn’t prove your point. In my Logic class I think that was called “The Fallacy of Total BS”

Yes, but that would be a lie.

Not once when you use one of these aspect skills (for the story) are you in any kind of danger of failing. Nor do you actually have to plan anything (again, because they are not real jumps). Each time it is a single buttonpress. So where do your hardships come from again?

re: Yes, but that would be a lie. – It’s the same thing that you’re doing. Changing the definition of a word to suit your purpose.

re: So where do your hardships come from again? – From the jumps that you refuse to call jumps.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: Yes, but that would be a lie. – It’s the same thing that you’re doing. Changing the definition of a word to suit your purpose.

re: So where do your hardships come from again? – From the jumps that you refuse to call jumps.

I have explained in detail why these actions are not what you would call jumping. Those are buttonpresses. Single buttonpresses. Do you find pressing a button hard?

I would question how people that can’t do the Aspect things could have done the vast majority of things in the game.
What is the hard part? Is it fast movement? If that is the case how did you manage combat?

Raenzjar.4210:

Dondarrion.2748:

[snip]

Don’t exaggerate, it makes you look rather silly.

Well, this whole thread is an exaggeration…

re: I have explained in detail why these actions are not what you would call jumping. Those are buttonpresses. Single buttonpresses. – No, they’re not what you would call jumping. You’re still just messing with word definitions to make your argument, not actually making an argument. And the single button presses thing. That’s like saying if I turn the TV off with the remote, I’m “powering it down” but if I turn the TV off with the power button on the front of the TV, I’m “turning it off”. So if I turn the TV off with the remote, I haven’t “turned it off”.(Because it’s “powered down” and obviously, those are two different things.)

How about this:
The Zephyrite stuff is making it hard or impossible for some of us to progress in Living Story Season 2. Are you going to argue with me about the definition of the word “stuff” now?

re: Do you find pressing a button hard? – No, I find jumping and using the Zephyrite Aspects hard.

I think even Longbow Bear Rangers have a hard time surviving in Orr, Southsun Cove and Frostgorge Sound.

You really got me curious. Can you please elaborate in detail exactly where and how is it hard (with exapmples if possible)? At what parts? Is moving the mouse, turning the camera, or the force needed to push down the actualy key the problem? I’m not even kidding, I just can’t imagine.

@Bubi.7942

First. “Leap” definition …. Verb…jump or spring a long way, to a great height
Noun……a forceful jump or quick movement.

Now you can define it whichever way you wish

however, I have questions for you

Did these zephyrite skills appear anywhere else within the game?

If these skills did appear within the game were they directly part of the main MMO fantasy part of the game or were they in areas where players could choose to or not to partake and this would not hinder their advancement within the main area?

Of course we already know the answers to these questions as well as the valid point made by the original poster about the change

this you, and many like you who are wearing blinkers, seem to ignore and was what the point of the post was about

Spoofy.8239:

@Bubi.7942

Did these zephyrite skills appear anywhere else within the game?

If these skills did appear within the game were they directly part of the main MMO fantasy part of the game or were they in areas where players could choose to or not to partake and this would not hinder their advancement within the main area?

Yes. In order to partake in a rather major part of the story of the game people had to use these skills. But I suppose that doesn’t count?

re: I would question how people that can’t do the Aspect things could have done the vast majority of things in the game. – Everyone isn’t equally good (or bad) at everything. Some of us can’t jump(or perform jump-like) actions well, or at all. Yet we can do other actions in the game with no issues. Everyone is different and has different strengths and weaknesses, accept it and move on please.

re: What is the hard part? – The hard part is that some of us can’t jump or are bad at jumping.(for various physical reasons, or because of poor internet connection, or hardware in the lower range of the spec) Also, it’s a tacked on mechanic that uses a pickup to replace your weapons skills(blocking them) that also times out, and can be picked up(blocking your weapon skills) when you don’t need it.(especially bad when you’re in combat)
So the implementation and use is awkward. And the actual skills(which strongly resemble jumping) are also difficult or impossible for some of us. Also the jump-like skills are subject to issues caused by poor internet connections, or other hardware issues.

But what part of the jumping is the issue? You are dodging that specific part of the question, and that part is the most important one.

Because as far as I can see if you could not handle the extremely guided and easy Aspect skills (in the “required” parts that is) I have high doubt about how you could manage much at all in the game.

Spoofy.8239:

@Bubi.7942

First. “Leap” definition …. Verb…jump or spring a long way, to a great height
Noun……a forceful jump or quick movement.

Now you can define it whichever way you wish

Huh? What has that got to do with jumping in a game?

Spoofy.8239:

however, I have questions for you

Did these zephyrite skills appear anywhere else within the game?

If these skills did appear within the game were they directly part of the main MMO fantasy part of the game or were they in areas where players could choose to or not to partake and this would not hinder their advancement within the main area?

Of course we already know the answers to these questions as well as the valid point made by the original poster about the change

this you, and many like you who are wearing blinkers, seem to ignore and was what the point of the post was about

Yes? Twice? Well actually 3 times depending if you count Bazaar and the voting thingy 2 different releases.

@Ceridwen.6703

You are of course correct about what you said within your first paragraph and one may just as well talk to a brick wall.

fact of the matter is this area will be a no go area for quite a few, who without a doubt will be looking across the shores for other MMO’s to play. MMO’s that perhaps have more friendlier and congenial players who don’t take umbrage at any negative remarks about their “Precious”

@Bubi.7942

Could I continue with the main game without playing in these areas?

Spoofy.8239:

@Bubi.7942

Could I continue with the main game without playing in these areas?

So LS1 was not considered the “main game” but for some reason LS2 is?

re: In order to partake in a rather major part of the story of the game people had to use these skills. But I suppose that doesn’t count? – I never considered the “Festival of Four Winds”(I think was the name of it) to be a “major” part of the story and skipped it. It seems that others did the same thing. But now we’re realizing that more and more content is being added to the game that is “not for us”. And we want to remedy that situation. Living Story Season 2 is major content, and we want to be able to progress in it. And we want Anet to realize that they’re alienating part of their customer base by making jumping and jump-like game actions mandatory instead of optional.

@lordkrall.7241 “So LS1 was not considered the “main game” but for some reason LS2 is?”

Huh?

Are you confused?

Spoofy.8239:

@Bubi.7942

Could I continue with the main game without playing in these areas?

What is the “main game”?

If you are referring to the story instances: No.
If you are referring to the rest of the world: Yes.

Exactly the same as now?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: In order to partake in a rather major part of the story of the game people had to use these skills. But I suppose that doesn’t count? – I never considered the “Festival of Four Winds”(I think was the name of it) to be a “major” part of the story and skipped it. It seems that others did the same thing. But now we’re realizing that more and more content is being added to the game that is “not for us”. And we want to remedy that situation. Living Story Season 2 is major content, and we want to be able to progress in it. And we want Anet to realize that they’re alienating part of their customer base by making jumping and jump-like game actions mandatory instead of optional.

I am not talking about Festival of Four Winds. I am talking about Cutthroat Politics, which were a rather major part of Season 1.

@Bubi.7942

When you talk about “The Story” are you referring to the “Personal Story”? or just another area that was added and then could be ignored if one so wished without it affecting your personal story?

Spoofy.8239:

Huh?

Are you confused?

Aspect Jumping was required in order to do parts of the Living Story in Season 1.

@lordkrall.7241

The living story is different from the personal story and could if one wished be ignored correct?

What personal story? This is becoming random.

The personal story ended with Zhaithan. Bazaar was a major part of the Living story along with the voting thing.

Same with this one. Please come out of ‘write only’ mode and read for a bit, lordkrall is basicly ninjaing my every awnser.

re: So LS1 was not considered the “main game” but for some reason LS2 is? – Festival of the Four Winds was not the entirety of Living Story Season 1. You didn’t need to complete it to progress in LS S1.
But Living Story is more sequential now in Season 2, (like Personal Story) and you have to complete each segment to move on to the next. So it’s not at all the same situation. It also makes if difficult, or even prevents some of us from getting around and opening up an open world map.

Spoofy.8239:

@lordkrall.7241

The living story is different from the personal story and could if one wished be ignored correct?

And the story in Dry Top is Living story, and as such there should be no issue then?
So what is this thread all about?

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: So LS1 was not considered the “main game” but for some reason LS2 is? – Festival of the Four Winds was not the entirety of Living Story Season 1. You didn’t need to complete it to progress in LS S1.
But Living Story is more sequential now in Season 2, (like Personal Story) and you have to complete each segment to move on to the next. So it’s not at all the same situation. It also makes if difficult, or even prevents some of us from getting around and opening up an open world map.

You don’t need to complete this chapter in order to access the next chapter in the Living Story either as far as we know (and it would make no sense seeing as they have outright stated that you can CHOOSE to buy chapters you have missed, but if you don’t you can still jump on the story where it currently stands.

@Ceridwen.6703

I have already informed my guildmates that I shall be looking for pastures greener

re: I am talking about Cutthroat Politics, which were a rather major part of Season 1. – I didn’t need to do it do the next part of Living Story Season 1. But Living Story Season 2 is sequential like Personal Story now. Each part need to be completed to progress to the next. Not at all the same situation as Living Story Season 1.

Elden Arnaas.4870:

re: I am talking about Cutthroat Politics, which were a rather major part of Season 1. – I didn’t need to do it do the next part of Living Story Season 1. But Living Story Season 2 is sequential like Personal Story now. Each part need to be completed to progress to the next. Not at all the same situation as Living Story Season 1.

Source for that statement. Because I have never heard that, and it is extremely unlikely since they have outright stated that you can choose which parts you want to buy if you miss any.

re: You don’t need to complete this chapter in order to access the next chapter in the Living Story either as far as we know – Well go ahead and try to skip a step, then. Take a character who hasn’t completed all that is currently available now, and try to start at some arbitrary place or just skip a step. We’ve been lead to believe that it doesn’t work that way. Go ahead and try it, and please let us know what you find out.

I would like to go back to the part where jumping with aspects was hard. Was never explained.

Lag was the only fair argument I’ve seen. Thankfully, that only affects lighning pull, which you have to use on huge platforms, so, doesn’t affect at all?

Can someone even post a video, where they are failing the aspect uses? Please?

Oh, you are talking about specific story steps in the chapter?
Well the exact same would have been the case in Cutthroat Politics then because it also had multiple story parts all which were locked behind that jumping.

re: Lving Story Season 2 is sequential and each step must be completed to progress to the next. – I just logged in to my main, and opened up the journal to see if I could select another part in the story to skip to. But only the parts I’ve completed, and am currently in, are available. I logged in to an alt, opened up the journal, and nothing except “start this story” was available.
So no, you can’t just skip around wherever you please. You have to do all the steps of the story, completing them in order.

You mean just exactly like you had to do in Cutthroat Politics?
When you talked about it, it sounded like you would be unable to do the next CHAPTER if you didn’t do this part, since you kept comparing it to LS1 CHAPTERS.

And you have still not answered what part of the skills are so hard.

re: Well the exact same would have been the case in Cutthroat Politics then because it also had multiple story parts all which were locked behind that jumping. – Oh, that. That was just so uninteresting to me, I didn’t do any of it. Because of lack of interest. The fact that I missed out on jumping puzzle stuff is just an added bonus. It was irksome that Anet would put out something (IMO) so bland and uninteresting. But that would be fodder for a different thread.

Oh, so now it wasn’t an issue because you didn’t find the content interesting..?

And you are still not answering the question, which make it seem like you don’t actually have a answer to it.

re: And you have still not answered what part of the skills are so hard. – What? You’re going to demand an answer from every single player who finds the Zerphyrite stuff difficult or impossible? Because that’s what you would need to do. Everyone’s answer will be at least a little different. In my case, my hand-eye coordination, and manual dexterity are bad in ways that evidently impact jumping. I can do other aspects of the game without issues. I have no physical handicap or ailment that would impact jumping performance. I’m just not well suited for it, evidently. I’m not going to go spend thousands of dollars to have extensive biometric tests and surveys done to satisfy a couple of demanding guys on the internet.

If you had such big issues with hand-eye coordination you should have problems with way more stuff in the game than these 5 or so skill that tells you exactly what to do.
How do you hit targets with targeted skills?
How do you avoid AoE?

re: Oh, so now it wasn’t an issue because you didn’t find the content interesting..? – Because the content was uninteresting to me, I didn’t even know about the jumping. I didn’t do that whole section . Because I found it so uninteresting. So, of course, I wouldn’t know about jumping in something that I didn’t do.

re: And you are still not answering the question, which make it seem like you don’t actually have a answer to it. – Oh my God! Which of your questions of universe-shaking importance have I not answered.(at least two or three separate times)

Bubi.7942:

Can someone even post a video, where they are failing the aspect uses? Please?

So some players can go and scream crap like ‘OMG U R DOIN IT WRNG’, derailing stuff even more? Nah.

Here is a free test just for you:

Dry Top Query (DTQ):

1. Can you press a button?

2. Can you aim a ground targeted skill?

3. Can you press a button, and then in quick succession, follow up by another button, or press 2 buttons at once?

Evaluation:

- If all 3 of the awnsers are yes – Congratulations, you are able to do the “jumping”!

- If 1 or more awnsers are no – Sadly, you may have have to practice a bit. Try pressing other stuff first, like gummibears and kittens. Kittens are soft and nice to press!

- If all 3 awnseres were no – Sadly, this game is not for you. Or any other games. Or any other things.

re: If you had such big issues with hand-eye coordination you should have problems with way more stuff in the game than these 5 or so skill that tells you exactly what to do. – Well, you seem to think so. But I don’t. Accept it and move on.

re: How do you hit targets with targeted skills? – I target enemies and use skills. Targeting and jumping aren’t the same thing. Accept it and move on.

How do you avoid AoE? – I dodge. Dodging and jumping aren’t the same thing. Accept it and move on.

Everybody isn’t good at all the same things. Accept it and move on.
Everyone doesn’t all like the same things. Accept it and move on.
Everyone doesn’t have all the same capabilities. Accept it and move on.

So, how is target the enemy and use the skill any different from target the place you want to jump and press the skill, other than the fact that the enemy is usually moving around.

And the fact remains that no matter how bad hand-eye coordination you have, it is fully possible to train up such things. If you were blind, sure. But something like that actually is fully possible to train.

I can see why mandatory jumping sections in the personal story/living story could alienate some players, or any activity that some players have a hard time dealing with.

The assisted jumping sections in LS2 are very straight forward though, literally, it helps a lot if you run first and then jump to get some momentum, maybe this is the problem. Also turn off your UI for more visibility and maybe for this part only turn down the graphic options so you can get 60fps at least, which I can’t get but it might help others?

Players have to jump in the game all the time, not as high and far but jumping nonetheless, perhaps people just need to get used to it more. Really, in this release I couldn’t find any even remotely hard jumps by design but you could do the story with a friend who is better at jumping first, if you just follow that person you should succeed…

I for one love the verticality, it’s something lots of traditional mmo and rpgs don’t have and it adds a lot to explorer type players.

There should be alternative paths though, with mobs to kill but as a “reward” you are allowed to walk.
Jumping at the moment still feels a bit gimmicky and making it a more optional, stealthy approach might be worth trying?
Of course make the jumping way quite a bit faster.

I personally enjoyed the first chapter of LS2 and loved the usage of aspects in the vicinity of the Zephyr ship wreck – at the end of the day it was them who used aspects around their ship, so i think it is natural that now they can be found around their crash site.

On another personal note, I have trouble understanding how the minimal amout of jumping required for the LS is causing problems. It’s not that you have to do a JP like Obsidian Sanctum to proceed. It’s just a few simple jumps. If you want the achievements for the map, then that’s another story – they are achievements, you know, so they are allowed to be a little bit more challenging.

On a very personal note: If this already causes problems to so many, I understand why relying on dodging to mitigate damage in a boss fight does not work for most. If you can’t jump, how can you ever dodge? It is the same amount of key presses – 1 to 2. And it has the same timing sensitivity, if not more.

I don’t see how this thread serves a purpose anymore.

Raenzjar.4210:

Dondarrion.2748:

[snip]

Don’t exaggerate, it makes you look rather silly.

+1 and fully agree.
BTW the op post was about the “forced” aspect not the removal of various types of play/mechanics of the game people like to play.
BTW- the merge of topics and move has completely derailed the topic(s) obviously on purpose.

Raenzjar.4210:

Bubi.7942:

Can someone even post a video, where they are failing the aspect uses? Please?

So some players can go and scream crap like ‘OMG U R DOIN IT WRNG’, derailing stuff even more? Nah.

Send it to me in private. I, for the love of my life, can’t imagine someone failing it. I can become a better person by understanding others more and you can have useful feedback as well on how to proceed. Win-win.

Blude.6812:

Raenzjar.4210:

Dondarrion.2748:

[snip]

Don’t exaggerate, it makes you look rather silly.

+1 and fully agree.
BTW the op post was about the “forced” aspect not the removal of various types of play/mechanics of the game people like to play.
BTW- the mistaken merge of topics has completely derailed the topic(s).

Yeah, and also his examples were about ‘forced’ stuff as well. I mean, why do I have to fight in my personal story / open world? I’m a buddhist and a pacifist, I don’t kill things.

Ps.: I do agree with the greatly exaggerated bit. But it’s not him who is doing that. He is using sarcasm.