Guild Wars 2

This post is plea to the developers to put more emphasis on personalized dialogue and immersion. I’m not here to argue about things like why the Pact didn’t show up to Lion’s Arch.

TL;DR: There is glaring lack of personal recognition in the bulk of NPC dialogue in Living Story releases. Much of the dialogue treats all players the same, regardless of your personal history in past content. As a current example, most of the Lionguard in Lion’s Arch don’t even recognize you as a comrade who stormed LA with them or as the slayer of Scarlet and just treat you as a random tourist. For me, this is immersion-breaking and feels like it devalues my accomplishments and my participation in previous content. I understand that writing multiple versions of dialogue and coding in conditional checks takes a lot of work. As a player, I value personalized dialogue very highly and would like to see more attention paid in future Living Story releases.

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“This is my story.”

The opening cinematic on character creation is very powerful. When I made my character, it got me pumped up. I was ready to return to Tyria, to fight against whatever evils threatened the lands. I was ready to be a hero, to live my story.

Whatever your opinion is on the execution of the Personal Story, there is no doubt that it was about you and your endeavours. You first become a hero in your local region, then you join an order and work your way up the hierarchy. Eventually, when Zhaitan makes a major attack against Lion’s Arch, you lead the counteroffensive to retake Claw Island from Zhaitan’s forces. Afterwards, regardless of Trahearne’s role and what you think of it, you become Commander of the Pact. You are number two. You are a leader, not just in name but also by your actions. You make decisions, and you personally execute daring and dangerous operations in Orr, culminating in the death of Zhaitan himself.

Hero of Shaemoor. Magister of the Priory. Hero of Claw Island and Savior of Lion’s Arch. Commander of the Pact. Slayer of Zhaitan. I am a pretty big deal. I have formed relationships with many notable characters, and I have accomplished some mighty things.

All of this gets pushed aside when the Living World hit. The dialogue treats you as a random adventurer who happened to answer the call for help. You can make whatever rationalizations you want about NPCs never having interacted with you before or MMOs having many heroes, but the fact is that it’s really a practical consideration. There will be new players who haven’t done the PS who are going to be doing this new temporary content. At each step of the way, there will be new players in the current LS release that haven’t done previous LS releases or the PS. The simplest and least work-intensive approach is to have only a single set of dialogue. Who does the dialogue target? It would be much more disruptive to have new players hear about things they didn’t do or some mighty Pact that they haven’t yet seen form, than for veteran players to have their past accomplishments ignored.

But what is the dialogue there for, if not for people to go out and discover and read? I’m the kind of player who normally makes an effort to experience all the content and to actually go read NPC dialogue, and it really discouraged me yesterday when I explored Lion’s Arch. The bulletin board lists me as the one who stopped Scarlet, but it doesn’t recognize my very relevant exploits as Commander of the Pact, the hero of Claw Island, the hero who stopped Mad King Thorn from coming out of the fountain, the protector who saved several Ship’s Council members from the Aetherblade attack, and the captor of Mai Trin. All the Lionguard say something like “Get out of here, random guy. We don’t need any more tourists or looters,” despite the fact that I spent the past four weeks fighting alongside them, rescuing citizens, defending their rally points, taking down Scarlet’s generals, assaulting the Breachmaker, and being the one who finally killed Scarlet. Normally, I would really enjoy talking to the NPCs, but this is isn’t really very fun. How can my comrades in arms not know who I am by now, after all I’ve done for them on multiple occasions?

(continued…)

Of course, this isn’t to say that there is completely no personalization. After having stomped Scarlet, I was able to talk to various refugees, Captain’s Councilors, Magnus, etc who thanked or congratulated me on defeating Scarlet. This is nice, and makes me feel like my participation in the Living World has an impact on my relationships with the characters and the world.

Sometimes the personalization is thrown in, but is not entirely complete. These cases are often kind of jarring and ruin an otherwise nice personalization. For example, a few releases back when you are looking at evidence to figure out Scarlet’s plan, you tell Marjory to name-drop you at the Priory. But Marjory herself is a member of the Priory. If she is in any way active in the Priory, how does she not know I am a Magister, and that I was/am Commander of the Pact? Even if she’s been living under a rock, how is it that I haven’t discussed my fairly exceptional Priory status with this friend that I’ve gone through multiple adventures with until now? Or for another example, in the new instance in the Dead End, Belinda Delaqua tells me that Logan has been “impressed” my “progress”. I found that to be very awkward phrasing, given that I am #2 in Tyria’s defense force, and that Logan and I killed Zhaitan together. Or how about the Pale Tree? In this release, we can go talk to the Pale Tree about how we were the ones who killed Scarlet. The Pale Tree expresses her deep gratitude and then proceeds to say “I must know your name.” Um, hello? Your son Trahearne and I came to see you before we went and cleansed Orr, and you gave us a fancy vision. Here are a bunch of examples where personalization was put in, but the incompleteness just makes the problem more noticeable.

The one really good example of a well-executed personalization was the instance where you meet Rox for the first time. You are in the Black Citadel’s Command Core, and Imperator Smodur and the tribunes are having a meeting about dealing with the Molten Alliance. The guards around the conference table refused to let me in at first, but I could respond “Not even for Pact Commander Veron Oakguard?” after which they say they do indeed have orders to let me through. Talking to Smodur, he says something along the lines of “Commander of the Pact? What are you doing here?” and actually briefly gives me the time of day, treating me as an equal. This kind of interaction makes my previous completion of the PS feel that much more rewarding, and is exactly what I want to see more of.

I recognize that writing multiple dialogue versions and programming in conditional checks for PS/LS participation takes a lot of effort. But this functionality exists in the game, as the examples I gave above and countless other examples of personalized dialogue to race, Order, and PS completion show. As a player, I put a great deal of value into personalized dialogue. Immersion is important to me, and the alternative is highly immersion-breaking. Furthermore, I play this game in large part as an outlet for my vanity. After all, what else is the point of legendaries, achievements, titles, and fancy armor? The unpersonalized dialogue feels like it belittles my accomplishments. I would like to see increased attention put towards personalized dialogue in future Living World releases.

I want to feel “This is my story” again.

==

(continued…)

Responses to frequently made arguments

Stop being so vain and egotistical. Are you so special in the real world?

I play this game as an outlet for my vanity and ego. That’s why I enjoy doing heroic things in the story. That’s why I made myself a Sunrise, why I crafted ascended armor, why I hunt for achievements and titles. Why do you play this game?

This is an MMO. There were tons of other people there on the Breachmaker. Why should you be treated differently by the game?

This argument gets used all the time as an excuse to dilute stories in MMOs. But don’t forget that this is also an RPG, which places a great deal of emphasis on personal progression and story. I am special because I experience the game uniquely from my point of view. All of the other players are just there. I don’t care who they are or what they’re doing. The other players on the Breachmaker are no different to me than the Lionguard NPCs. In fact, that’s who other players are: non-playable characters, because I am not playing them. So it doesn’t matter that they were in Battle for Lion’s Arch, the same way it doesn’t matter that a bunch of unnamed Lionguard stand around the rally points. I’m the one in the instance who killed Scarlet. I’m the one who went to the Dead End to celebrate with Marjory, Kasmeer, Rox, Braham, and Taimi. It’s not like the game doesn’t already tend towards personalization in many ways. Marjory never talks about the “one hundred and forty-nine other heroes who storm the Breachmaker”. Trahearne never says anything about there being other #2’s in the Pact. Logan doesn’t have any other Hero of Shaemoors he’s mentoring. You are the only one in the story who fills these roles and forms relationships with these characters. Why should some of the dialogue then not recognize these roles and these relationships?

You’ve never talked to so-and-so NPC before. Why should they magically know who you are?

Sometimes it’s reasonable for them to know who you are, and sometimes it isn’t. For the reasonable times, it’s weird when they don’t. I, a multiple-time savior of Lion’s Arch, Commander of the Pact, confidant of Magnus and Kiel, fought alongside the Lionguard to retake Lion’s Arch. I think it would be fairly reasonable to say that the Lionguard rank and file recognize my name and face. All of the Captain’s Council does. Presumably, people who live in Tyria don’t sit around and twiddle their thumbs in silence all the time. People talk to each other. People tell each other news. How is it more realistic that they know Scarlet died, but don’t know how she died? Isn’t this what everyone would be talking about right now? So why don’t the Lionguard in LA right now know I killed Scarlet? And honestly, generally this isn’t a good reason not to have personalized dialogue. Here’s a good check: in an alternate universe where the developers did put in NPC recognition, would you be complaining that it’s unrealistic?

I like this and am curious to see the discussion about it. My only addition would be to say that yes, I feel the same way. In fact, I was thinking earlier that our little “Personal Story” panel in the hero window could have a counterpart of “Living Story” that outlines our personal involvement with everything that’s happened since Halloween 2012.

I absolutely agree. I know there are probably practical reasons to not do this (file size), but I’d rather not be able to speak to someone at all than have it feel like everything I’ve done doesn’t matter.

My other “this feels rather impersonal” quibble revolves around never getting to hear my characters speak or converse with the others. I know there is, yet again, a practical reason; for each line, they’d have to call in and pay their (semi high profile) 10 voice actors (one per gender per race). I almost wish they’d picked passionate fans to voice the player characters. I would do this stuff for free, buy legit recording equipment and honor an NDA. XD If there’s not going to be a Personal Story expansion, I’m just concerned that I will never ever hear my characters speak again. This makes me deeply sad because I love the character voices so much.

These two things are my most frequent reasons for feeling like my character is sort of… a dime a dozen. Voiceless and unknown.

Veron, I gave a +1 to each section of your post. I REALLY hope the same oversights are not made in season 2. Immersion breaking, indeed.

kimeekat.2548:

IThese two things are my most frequent reasons for feeling like my character is sort of… a dime a dozen. Voiceless and unknown.

I think that line sums up the base of any problem with the LS entirely.

Different strokes I suppose, but I actually ENJOY the fact that I’m not treated as some grand hero by everyone. We players actually are one in thousands of others, so being singled out as the one important person breaks immersion for me far more than not getting recognition. Knowing that every NPC tells every player they’re the hero, that’s worse than being a “faceless player in a sea of others” IMO.

Electro.4173:

Different strokes I suppose, but I actually ENJOY the fact that I’m not treated as some grand hero by everyone. We players actually are one in thousands of others, so being singled out as the one important person breaks immersion for me far more than not getting recognition. Knowing that every NPC tells every player they’re the hero, that’s worse than being a “faceless player in a sea of others” IMO.

Oh, for sure. There are absolutely reasons characters wouldn’t know you, especially out far away from the action. But when a Lionguard is like “Get out of here! We don’t need another looter!” I’d like the option to be all “Uhm, I don’t want to make a big deal of this but I kind of helped save this place hardcore. Did you not see me busting my butt to save people? I fought next to a bunch of Lionguard just like you and happened to be the one who slew the crazy that started this…” and maybe have them explain they were posted somewhere else or they don’t care who I am, I’m not lionguard so move the eff out of the way… something that they wouldn’t say to any other civilian roaming the city..

Also, we took down a dragon with Destiny’s Edge. Again, kind of a big deal. I feel like if they know the names of Desitny’s Edge people, they should at least be vaguely aware of Trahearne and my Player-Character. Or have dialogue that plays it off for laughs that they have no clue who I am.

Not sure how I feel about the “every player is special so I’m not” line of thought. I have thought about this on my alts, though; how it’s a little sad that they’re so easily interchangeable in a semi-RPG. I’ll have to mull it over…

Cmon ANet, make use of these personalities more. You know you can. Do it in the text dialogues. Cmon.

kimeekat.2548, your post (which I +1’d) reminded me of dialogue from an NPC that has heard of your toon but never met your toon. I think the NPC is in Hoelbrak, but I cannot remember. During your interaction, you can choose the dialogue, “I’m (character name).” And the NPC responds with some line like, “Ha! No, (character name) is taller and better looking.” I have a screnshot of it, but then I have 3 full screenshot folders to look through to find it.

It must be infinitely complex to code in all of these changes, I applaud all that you have already done in this area. I’m glad to hear that future living world content will have more of this as well.

One thing, however: my level 52 asura character who has just completed the Battle of Claw Island was referred to as Commander by Laranthir who also referenced her battle with Zhaitan, which has not happened. Should I report this as a bug?

This has been one of the things that’s driven me off LS; conversations seem to have an assumed context, and the storyline doesn’t care about what you’ve achieved. The first time I encountered Brahem was in one of the nightmare chambers, and my character effectively says to him “your mother” and he goes off the rails. It just breaks the immersion.

Angel McCoy.1832:

I’m sure you understand that this is much more complex than it looks on the surface, especially because it’s impossible to account for every possible combination of PC history.

Good idea would be going with some special dialogue based on race – I personally would be very happy for my Asura to be able to have some special dialogue with Taimi about her golem or College choice, even not personalised with my character own personal story.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Hi, guys…and Veron in particular. I just wanted to let you know that I hear you. In-studio, we talk a lot about how to make the experience unique to each player via branching conIversations and the like.

… snip …

Thanks for the response, Angel. I do appreciate the current efforts towards branching dialogues, and I definitely see how the complexity of it could easily get out of hand.

I do think though, that some of the major milestones that currently don’t usually get branches, e.g. Claw Island, Commander of the Pact, slayer of Zhaitan, come off as especially jarring when dialogue not only doesn’t reference them, but end up saying something that seems absurd when considered with those milestones.

I think maybe something that could be considered without having to add additional branches is making sure that non-branched dialogue sounds more agnostic to these milestones, i.e. characters who realistically would know about your accomplishments (e.g. your friends, or leaders that would be informed about Pact activities) don’t say something that would sound disrespectful or weird.

I do also think that branches just for these major milestones would go a long way towards making many conversations feel less awkward and more rewarding for players. It doesn’t even have to be during the major scenes with voiced dialogue — purely textual dialogue would make a big difference.

Anyways, I appreciate the hard work you all put in to create new content at such a rapid pace. Thanks for reading my feedback.

I did get some special dialogue with Taimi on my Asura back during the Moment’s Peace instance in LA, but nothing since. :/

Angel McCoy.1832:

Daerian.6523:

I personally would be very happy for my Asura to be able to have some special dialogue with Taimi about her golem or College choice, even not personalised with my character own personal story.

This is one of those instances where you must have missed it. We did put some in. You may have even seen it and not realized that it was different from what others were getting.

One way to ensure you’re getting the full conversation is to make sure you click all the way through, including the exit. We put progress bits on the exits that will determine what future conversations with these characters will be like.

Keep your peepers open. We’ll definitely be doing more with Taimi and the asuran PCs having special moments.

Thanks for answer, but I have a question – were there any special dialogue option for race in last instalament of LS? Because we were actively looking for them in my guild, checking for it with asura, human and charr characters and didn’t find any.

The dialogue with Rox is slightly different if you’re a Charr (although the same information is imparted), and the dialogue with Marjory is slightly different if you’re a Human (Logan Thackeray makes a comment through Marjory about how he “knew you back when”).

There is also a ton of content out there to congratulate you if you killed Scarlet.

Yes, my lvl 15 was mistaken for a participant in killing Scarlet and congratulated.

I’m innocent, I wasn’t there, I didn’t done do that, not me gov’ … you must have me confused with some one else.

I don’t agree with making it personalized depending on whether you have or haven’t killed zhaitain, that breaks the timeline if you haven’t. as a player on a new character you must simply concepualize that living story occures after the personal story you have yet to complete.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

I don’t agree with making it personalized depending on whether you have or haven’t killed zhaitain, that breaks the timeline if you haven’t. as a player on a new character you must simply concepualize that living story occures after the personal story you have yet to complete.

I’m not sure why it is that LS’s timeline is so inviolable that it has to intrude on other parts of the game. For example: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/137008/gw771.jpg
Are we to accept that LS is the only part of the game that matters, and anyone wanting to play other aspects must be given sub-par treatment? Add this to the list of “kitten you”s to people that consider buying the game.

Bob F It.5701:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

I don’t agree with making it personalized depending on whether you have or haven’t killed zhaitain, that breaks the timeline if you haven’t. as a player on a new character you must simply concepualize that living story occures after the personal story you have yet to complete.

I’m not sure why it is that LS’s timeline is so inviolable that it has to intrude on other parts of the game. For example: https://dviw3bl0enbyw.cloudfront.net/uploads/forum_attachment/file/137008/gw771.jpg
Are we to accept that LS is the only part of the game that matters, and anyone wanting to play other aspects must be given sub-par treatment? Add this to the list of “kitten you”s to people that consider buying the game.

You need to understand that it’s not about the “LS” timeline. It’s the “current” timeline. When you play the Personal Story it’s already long past happened. The PS is set in time, the open world reflects the present. It is not a hard concept.

Lostwingman.5034:

You need to understand that it’s not about the “LS” timeline. It’s the “current” timeline. When you play the Personal Story it’s already long past happened. The PS is set in time, the open world reflects the present. It is not a hard concept.

Exactly, playing personal story is like going back and watching an old recording of your first grade play. its real life, it still happened, but its locked in the past; that’s personal story. whereas the you that puts down the old recording to go on doinging other things in you life, that’s the present, that’s living story. and just because you take a moment in the presnt to watch events from your past, doesn’t mean your past occured in the present. Its not that hard to draw out the events in your mind, then seperate and organize them to how they should be, what order they are meant to flow in, rather than the order you played them.

In a similar fasion the pretrillogy for star wars, simply because it was released after star wars, nobody is under the misconception that the events take place after the fall of the empire. Or if the first movie of a series you watch is the sequal, and you go back later to find out what happened prior by watching the first, is that not easy to conceptualize a timeline?

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Exactly, playing personal story is like going back and watching an old recording of your first grade play. its real life, it still happened, but its locked in the past; that’s personal story. whereas the you that puts down the old recording to go on doinging other things in you life, that’s the present, that’s living story. and just because you take a moment in the presnt to watch events from your past, doesn’t mean your past occured in the present. Its not that hard to draw out the events in your mind, then seperate and organize them to how they should be, what order they are meant to flow in, rather than the order you played them.

In a similar fasion the pretrillogy for star wars, simply because it was released after star wars, nobody is under the misconception that the events take place after the fall of the empire. Or if the first movie of a series you watch is the sequal, and you go back later to find out what happened prior by watching the first, is that not easy to conceptualize a timeline?

That still doesn’t excuse how it’s a terrible delivery of exposition.

NPC: Hey there, dragonslayer!
PC: Eh? I just woke from the pale tree; only dragon I’ve killed was inside a dream.

Bob F It.5701:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Exactly, playing personal story is like going back and watching an old recording of your first grade play. its real life, it still happened, but its locked in the past; that’s personal story. whereas the you that puts down the old recording to go on doinging other things in you life, that’s the present, that’s living story. and just because you take a moment in the presnt to watch events from your past, doesn’t mean your past occured in the present. Its not that hard to draw out the events in your mind, then seperate and organize them to how they should be, what order they are meant to flow in, rather than the order you played them.

In a similar fasion the pretrillogy for star wars, simply because it was released after star wars, nobody is under the misconception that the events take place after the fall of the empire. Or if the first movie of a series you watch is the sequal, and you go back later to find out what happened prior by watching the first, is that not easy to conceptualize a timeline?

That still doesn’t excuse how it’s a terrible delivery of exposition.

NPC: Hey there, dragonslayer!
PC: Eh? I just woke from the pale tree; only dragon I’ve killed was inside a dream.

That’s a bit more on the issue of custom interactions programmed in the game.

Since they don’t really have that deeply implemented they can only have a few pre-arranged responses. In the game timeline Zhaitan was killed in 1325. It is now 1327 (I think) so the game world treats all characters as if they’ve finished the PS campaign for dialogue. At least, in zones updated to current time.

Bob F It.5701:

That still doesn’t excuse how it’s a terrible delivery of exposition.

NPC: Hey there, dragonslayer!
PC: Eh? I just woke from the pale tree; only dragon I’ve killed was inside a dream.

The simple fact of the matter, is that regardless of whether you completed personal story before or after living story, the events of living story still occure after personal story, so it only makes sense for the diologue to reflect that. And yes, it is a valid method of story delivory, some expository pieces begin at the middle or end of the story and then proceed to tell how the characters got to that point. One method of making the timeline clear, was actually implimented in GW1, when you travel to another continent and enter a mission that was dated before your arrival, a text pops up, informing you that, ‘you are about to witness events that transpired before your arrival in Lions Arch’, in a similar fassion, personal story missions could state, “these events occured pre scarlet invasion” or the like, not that I think its truely nessicary, but for those of you who can’t sort it out in your minds, I think this is a viable solution to make the transition smooth and clean, and is a far better choice than trashing the timeline with inconsistancies. Furthermore, those of you who want very specific diologue tailored to your engame choices, character who have yet to join a order would not be able to be aquainted with one, in such a case they would be given the base tittle commander of the pact of dragon slayer, as regardless of what choices you make, you end up there anyways, whereas those further on in personal story could be remembered for more specific choices and achievements that are dependent upon those choices.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

The simple fact of the matter, is that regardless of whether you completed personal story before or after living story, the events of living story still occure after personal story, so it only makes sense for the diologue to reflect that. And yes, it is a valid method of story delivory, some expository pieces begin at the middle or end of the story and then proceed to tell how the characters got to that point. One method of making the timeline clear, was actually implimented in GW1, when you travel to another continent and enter a mission that was dated before your arrival, a text pops up, informing you that, ‘you are about to witness events that transpired before your arrival in Lions Arch’, in a similar fassion, personal story missions could state, “these events occured pre scarlet invasion” or the like, not that I think its truely nessicary, but for those of you who can’t sort it out in your minds, I think this is a viable solution to make the transition smooth and clean, and is a far better choice than trashing the timeline with inconsistancies. Furthermore, those of you who want very specific diologue tailored to your engame choices, character who have yet to join a order would not be able to be aquainted with one, in such a case they would be given the base tittle commander of the pact of dragon slayer, as regardless of what choices you make, you end up there anyways, whereas those further on in personal story could be remembered for more specific choices and achievements that are dependent upon those choices.

This just further inflames point #14 that Shriketalon.1937 made. The player is now made even more insignificant to the game in addition to their character because all of their past actions have now been auto-piloted. This is meant to be an interactive medium; to staple future actions to the player as past events of the character makes the storytelling anything but interactive.

Bob F It.5701:

This just further inflames point #14 that Shriketalon.1937 made. The player is now made even more insignificant to the game in addition to their character because all of their past actions have now been auto-piloted. This is meant to be an interactive medium; to staple future actions to the player as past events of the character makes the storytelling anything but interactive.

And to diverge from the timeline makes it anything but linare, in affect transforming the story into a chaotic pool of plot holes and inconsistancies. As I said previously, they can inform players that personal story is in the past with a simple notice at the start of a mission. This was very effective in gw1, so I dont see why it won’t work here. And what the OP wanted was for the story to feel personalized for achievements they’ve completed in the past, this can be done through diverging points in the storyline, ie your race, choice of order, and whether to take tanks through orr or ships through orr, while a less personalized base tittle, such as killing zhaitan, can stand for those who have not yet arrived at turning points in the story. Because one way or another you become pact commander, but how you get there, and what you do with that power, is different for everyone. this still keeps the story in chronological order but allows for personalization.

Furthermore, to do so would NOT, to use your term of phrase, ‘staple future events as the past’ for these ‘future events’ as you call them, are already known to have occured in the past. Such as how Scarlet stole her first couple of airships from the pact (yes this was stated in game) from which logic detates occured after the forming of the pact, in which our characters played a pivital role, and this but one of many post personal story references. so regardless of whether you want it or not, personal story has already been proclaimed past events by living story, and will likely continue to be dubbed so. it would only make sense for the diologue to match the story.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Furthermore, to do so would NOT, to use your term of phrase, ‘staple future events as the past’ for these ‘future events’ as you call them, are already known to have occured in the past. Such as how Scarlet stole her first couple of airships from the pact (yes this was stated in game) from which logic detates occured after the forming of the pact, in which our characters played a pivital role, and this but one of many post personal story references. so regardless of whether you want it or not, personal story has already been proclaimed past events by living story, and will likely continue to be dubbed so. it would only make sense for the diologue to match the story.

Let me clarify that, but saying it in a different order: past events that have occured to the character are to be future actions of the player. This ludology I’m talking about. This is one of the things that brings negative points to new players. Is LS going to spoil things like your mentor's sacrifice at Claw Island in taking its position of centre of attention of the player’s experience?

Just and idea: we could have race/profession related choices marked with the race/profession icon instead of the x/tick/arrow. Easier to notice, people would collect these for the wiki/reddit so we wouldn’t miss it.

What do you think?

Each account already has achievements associated with storyline. Would it be out of the question to program a check for particular achievements before a dialog is initiated to determine which branch of dialog is displayed. This of course only implemented on text-based dialog (and most likely only on important NPCs that would be pertinent to the information being discussed) and not voiced “cutscene” dialog.

To simply check for given storyline based achievements, you could easily determine which branch of dialog to present, and it would seem seamless to the player.

It might make just enough difference to maintain the “immersive” feel without really adding an exorbitant amount of coding.

Mythoryk.7984:

Each account already has achievements associated with storyline. Would it be out of the question to program a check for particular achievements before a dialog is initiated to determine which branch of dialog is displayed. This of course only implemented on text-based dialog (and most likely only on important NPCs that would be pertinent to the information being discussed) and not voiced “cutscene” dialog.

To simply check for given storyline based achievements, you could easily determine which branch of dialog to present, and it would seem seamless to the player.

It might make just enough difference to maintain the “immersive” feel without really adding an exorbitant amount of coding.

Those achievements are generic, you get them no matter what route you take. Plus they are account bound and players with characters from all races most likely have more than one of those.

Bob F It.5701:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Furthermore, to do so would NOT, to use your term of phrase, ‘staple future events as the past’ for these ‘future events’ as you call them, are already known to have occured in the past. Such as how Scarlet stole her first couple of airships from the pact (yes this was stated in game) from which logic detates occured after the forming of the pact, in which our characters played a pivital role, and this but one of many post personal story references. so regardless of whether you want it or not, personal story has already been proclaimed past events by living story, and will likely continue to be dubbed so. it would only make sense for the diologue to match the story.

Let me clarify that, but saying it in a different order: past events that have occured to the character are to be future actions of the player. This ludology I’m talking about. This is one of the things that brings negative points to new players. Is LS going to spoil things like your mentor's sacrifice at Claw Island in taking its position of centre of attention of the player’s experience?

But that would be the flexibility of the system I proposed, if you don’t reach the pivotal turning point where your mentor dies, then it wouldn’t activate a flag in the dialogue. An example of this could be the death of Kasmeer, after which you have to pick an option to console Majory, such as, ‘you need to grow stronger, so that you never lose your loved ones again’(fierce), ’She’s at peace now, awaiting you in the mist’(majestic), or ’You’ve still got me’(romantic). But if you meet the conditions(picked an order and watched your mentor die), it would trigger and additional response that would carry the conversation, such as ‘I didn’t think I would ever stand back up after losing Forgal…’

I See No Tomorrow.7302:

One thing, however: my level 52 asura character who has just completed the Battle of Claw Island was referred to as Commander by Laranthir who also referenced her battle with Zhaitan, which has not happened. Should I report this as a bug?

This isn’t a bug. All Living Story is post-Zhaitan. When you do your perosnal story you are viewing past events:

BobbyStein.2315:

DragoTheWise.7256:

I hope you folks are seriously not considering the LS is happening at the same time as the Personal Story, and this is just a slip up on the post. I also would hope that everyone on the team can get this stuff straight so that this confusion doesn’t happen.

What Regina means is that for players who are currently going through their Personal Story, the LW timeline will seem to be happening at the same time. Technically, they happen at different times in Tyrian history. Personal Story predates the current Living World season by approximately one year.

So when you’re playing your Personal Story and are in an instance with Rytlock, etc. the assumption is that this is happening “in the past” whereas LW events are happening now.

Our hope is to provide better distinction of these timelines within the game, but that would come with the release of a planned feature that we’re not ready to discuss in depth just yet.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Yes, please. Do report anything you think is a bug. You can do so via the Game Bugs forum: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs .
Or, you can report them in-game from the Support Menu. Thanks!

Angel this is not a bug. Talk to Bobby

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

Bob F It.5701:

Let me clarify that, but saying it in a different order: past events that have occured to the character are to be future actions of the player. This ludology I’m talking about. This is one of the things that brings negative points to new players. Is LS going to spoil things like your mentor's sacrifice at Claw Island in taking its position of centre of attention of the player’s experience?

But that would be the flexibility of the system I proposed, if you don’t reach the pivotal turning point where your mentor dies, then it wouldn’t activate a flag in the dialogue. An example of this could be the death of Kasmeer, after which you have to pick an option to console Majory, such as, ‘you need to grow stronger, so that you never lose your loved ones again’(fierce), ’She’s at peace now, awaiting you in the mist’(majestic), or ’You’ve still got me’(romantic). But if you meet the conditions(picked an order and watched your mentor die), it would trigger and additional response that would carry the conversation, such as ‘I didn’t think I would ever stand back up after losing Forgal...’

The first thing I’d like to point out is that you can go down to Orr and see the pact no matter what point of the story you are in, so this is not a problem caused Living Story, but a problem that Living Story can at times highlight.

As for the example given, for the person who has not yet played that part of the personal story you have the option of foreshadowing. Something along the lines of “I lost someone I cared for greatly before…” etc. Words that might hit home when you get to that part of PS.

MMOs and timelines… you basically just have to accept it I’m afraid. A linear story based game this isn’t really an excusable problem however in a MMO were you have a open world, where a players can be at any point in the personal story (with so many different combinations of races, backgrounds and orders to keep track of), where a player could have taken part or not taken part in any of the previous Living World events… Well it becomes close to humanly impossible to keep track of all those combinations and craft specific responses that will unique to each character.