Guild Wars 2

I don’t mind if content can be soloed. Likewise, I don’t mind if content can be done in a group. What I do mind is when I lose the option to do either one.

Your game was designed around the concept of dynamically scaling content based on the number of players present. Whether it’s a general open-world event or a personal storyline mission, the ability to support a full party or a party of one has always been there. And so, I’m confused as to why you would ever choose to break groups of friends apart when they’re trying to play this game together. I really can’t imagine a greater offense for an MMO.

When you created the Canach instance (the single-player one), I suspect you were thinking of the complaints you received for ending Flame & Frost with a 5-man dungeon. I know after enjoying all the events leading up to it with just myself and a friend, I was certainly disappointed with suddenly having to bring a PUG into the last stage of that adventure. And when many of us voiced concerns about being forced into a group, I’m pretty sure we weren’t implying we wanted to be forced into playing alone. We just wanted more of those “personal story” instances that scale in difficulty depending on whether you entered them alone, or with a full group (like our first adventure with Rox and Braham).

I’m not suggesting the Canach solo instance was difficult. It was not. What I am saying is that nothing kills an evening a gaming like logging into an MMO to play this event with a friend, and then suddenly the game won’t allow us to play together because someone out there decided we should really be enjoying this content alone.

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it?

I’ll admit when my fiancee and I found out that canach was a solo mission we where upset but it didn’t effect us long instead we both started it at the same time and raced to see who would finish first. It really only took about five mins so I don’t think it was that detrimental to our quality GW2 time together.

Looks like you are outnumbered.
When the F&F thing was going there was a mountain of posts complaining about a group instance at the end. They give us a pure solo instance (to satisfy the loners) and so few people have complained.

Methinks more people are outraged by group missions than solo. :/

Edge.4180:

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it?

This.

Needs to be more content that allows group scaling. Less of the “solo, 5 man or gtfo” stuff.

Liavain Axon.1972:

Looks like you are outnumbered.
When the F&F thing was going there was a mountain of posts complaining about a group instance at the end. They give us a pure solo instance (to satisfy the loners) and so few people have complained.

Methinks more people are outraged by group missions than solo. :/

I don’t know if “outnumbered” is the right way of looking at this.

There were “solo” missions in the Fire and Frost campaign. The first time you mission with Rox and Braham individually, those are personal story instances.

The important difference is that while they could be played through alone, they could also be played through in a group. And the content within scaled in difficulty based on the number of players on the map. As far as I’ve seen, this is true of any personal story instance.

The complaint in Fire and Frost wasn’t that finale allowed more than one player into the final instance, it was that it required a party when people wanted the option of soloing it. There’s an important difference between the two. The mission with Canach is the first time I’ve ever seen a GW2 adventure block me from inviting friends along. And, hopefully, it will be the last.

There is no “outnumbered” here, because only a grade-A peanuthead would ever suggest that people should be forced to play alone in an MMO. Play alone if you wish, but allow others to play alongside their friends if that is their wish. Who is going to be the jerk raising an objection to that?

Avinz.2456:

I’ll admit when my fiancee and I found out that canach was a solo mission we where upset but it didn’t effect us long instead we both started it at the same time and raced to see who would finish first. It really only took about five mins so I don’t think it was that detrimental to our quality GW2 time together.

The developers seem to like to test the waters with new ideas, and I would prefer this particular idea get nipped in the bud now rather than show up again later on a grander scale. Preventing friends from playing together is a bad idea.

Edge.4180:

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it?

I completely agree and I’m stymied as to why ANET seems to have such trouble grappling with this concept. I assume it’s because of some sort of technical limitation of the game, because conceptually, “many people want to play with their friends” does not seem all that hard to grasp. Why must it be only 1 or only 5 as opposed to “1 to 5?”

crystal.5930:

Edge.4180:

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it?

I completely agree and I’m stymied as to why ANET seems to have such trouble grappling with this concept. I assume it’s because of some sort of technical limitation of the game, because conceptually, “many people want to play with their friends” does not seem all that hard to grasp. Why must it be only 1 or only 5 as opposed to “1 to 5?”

This. So many times this. It should not be “solo OR 5 man”, it should be “1-5”, as in “you can solo if you want, or you can bring any number of friends up to 5, and the content will scale accordingly”.

I play the game together with 2 real life friends, most often only two of us are online. So if we do not do dynamic events, we are kind of screwed in this game when it comes to dungeons, because most of the instanced content is not designed for only two players – and we do not like picking up random other players to fill up the party, that’s just how it is.

So “solo or full party” for us means no partying up for dungeon content, because we can’t do it with 2 people, and no partying up for the solo content, because it’s solo only. So me and my friends could only play together in the open world.

It really cannot be that hard to make content scale for 1-5 players. Just adjust some numbers for the mobs and avoid stuff like “you need 4 people to each click a switch and one to open the door at the same time”.

No matter what they do, somebody will find a reason to complain. I’m slowly getting used to it.

First people complained ArenaNet had the audacity to finalize a storyline with a 5-man story dungeon.

Now they complain ArenaNet has the audacity to do something you need to do on your own.

Sigh

C’mon guys!!! You can’t complain just for EVERYTHING! Some want solo play others party play. And the only thing you can do is to NOT pretend to give an “aut-aut” request to ArenaNet.

Given the way the fight itself works, there’s really no reason at all for it to be restricted to a solo player. I can’t say that I’m squarely on the side of any horse in the solo/group debate but a solo only restriction for the Canach fight seems completely arbitrary. Even if the fight itself didn’t scale at all, it would play out exactly the same and would likely even take nearly the same amount of time to complete.

There is only 1 problem with solo ‘dungeons’ or instances in this matter:

They are not fun.

There are not many people complaining about the Canach instance being solo, becouse it is 5 mins long. If it took the time that Molten Facility took, you would see a lot more complains.

With that said, please do compare the solo instances (personal story), with any of the dungeons. Compare difficulty, story, effort needed, and how fun they were in general.

I have done these steps. And I don’t know about you guys, but the personal story for me (playing Asura and Norn) was a borefest, a chore to do, and something that was not exciting at all. A challange? Don’t make me laugh. I don’t even remember getting downed in any of Personal story quests. Spam 1 = win. Is that fun? No.

My guess is it is probably that way, becouse the classes are hard to balance and it has to be accessable to all kind of skill leveled players. And that’s ok, personal story was not my kind of thing.

But please don’t let it continue on that path.

Before you reply: ask yourselves again, what was your personal story like, as an instance?

Edge.4180:

To make this clear: Ability to enjoy content solo = good. Ability to enjoy content in a group = good. Losing the ability to do either = not good. You have the ability to dynamically scale difficulty based on the number of players present and thus support anything from solo play to full groups and all the iterations in between, so can you please make use of it?

/signed

Chief.5928:

First people complained ArenaNet had the audacity to finalize a storyline with a 5-man story dungeon.

Now they complain ArenaNet has the audacity to do something you need to do on your own.

Sigh

Remember how everybody complained about the Rox and Braham instances, and how they gave players the choice to solo or group up?

Me neither

I just wish they’d stop instancing stuff. They should focus on open world dynamic events.

That’s weird… I did the solo instance in a five person group. I didn’t realize at the time it was meant to be solo. Has something changed that you can’t go in a group, or is it just that it’s too easy?

To be clear, it was the solo one with Canach, not the Null fight.

That was possible for a short period of time (maybe an hour?); the instance became accessible to players by accident before the patch went live.

Couldn’t agree with the OP more.

Personally, I never understood people who complained about the need to group for MF. I mean, GW2 is an MMORPG, multiplayer being one of the key words. But fine, if people for whatever reason don’t like that, solo should be an option. However, obligatory-solo instance in an MMO should be an oxymoron.

The dungeon itself was really really easy people. I’m not sure why there’s such a commotion here. It gave you a nice little achievement and was something that you do on your own…

You want to be able to do 100% of your gaming with someone else? I think it was a nice little personal challenge.

the instance was horrible either way. boring boring boring!

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That was possible for a short period of time (maybe an hour?); the instance became accessible to players by accident before the patch went live.

Ah ok, thank you Pixelpumpkin.

That’s too bad. I thought it was something you could do alone or with a group. I see why it’s frustrating to be forced one way or another.

Although I’m not a fan of either of the “dungeon” missions this time around (loved MF from last story arc though), I like the concept. Solo to complete the storyline, but team for the explorable piece.

Overall, I don’t like the actual content, but that is personal preference. I do like their approach though.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Chief.5928:

First people complained ArenaNet had the audacity to finalize a storyline with a 5-man story dungeon.

Now they complain ArenaNet has the audacity to do something you need to do on your own.

Sigh

Remember how everybody complained about the Rox and Braham instances, and how they gave players the choice to solo or group up?

Me neither

I do, and it was good. Some of those missions I did solo, some I did as part of a duo. Same with the personal story. That design was one of the Good Things about the personal story, in my opinion. But remember the Wintersday dungeon or mission or whatever they called it that could only be entered solo and you’d get teamed up with random people? And remember the ire over that? It’s tangential sure, but it relates to the same concept…that lots of people want to play with their friends. And when you look at the content of the Canach story instance, is there really any reason to not let more than one person into the instance? Could that content be made any more trivial than it already is?

While the solo instance was needed; it also needed the same instance to be done in a group or “scaling” as a few have mentioned.

You see, not everybody wants to play solo (though most do it seems), but not every wants to group either. The option to do both needs to be there with the same reward so neither group feels compelled to do one or the other for a better reward.

I would like to second this.. yes let it be able to be done solo but making that your only option stinks. Tried to do it with my husband the first day and we were a bit confused lol

Iruwen.3164:

No matter what they do, somebody will find a reason to complain. I’m slowly getting used to it.

I’m not sure what’s to “get used to” here. Are you finding it odd that people would complain about not being able to play with their friends in an MMO? That’s surprising you?

Really?

dbgamer.3407:

You want to be able to do 100% of your gaming with someone else?

Yes. I find that to be such a peculiar question. Why wouldn’t you want to be able to do 100% of your gaming with friends and/or a significant other when you specifically picked this MMO up with the intention of playing it together?

If I wanted to play a good game alone, I’d play a good single player game. There are plenty of them out there, and they all easily give a far better single player experience than an MMO ever could.

That said, I recognize that people like to play MMOs alone, and so I believe the option should exist. Whatever is fun for you. But that way of playing shouldn’t ever be forced on players who don’t want to run solo, because that’s not fun for them.

I respect the desire to have an option to fly solo in an MMO, but you solo-fans need to understand this is a two-way street. It’s not “your way” versus “my way”. It’s whatever is fun for either of us, especially when the game has the technology to provide that range of experiences.

Why anyone would be against that is beyond me.

Invictus.1503:

Although I’m not a fan of either of the “dungeon” missions this time around (loved MF from last story arc though), I like the concept. Solo to complete the storyline, but team for the explorable piece.

Overall, I don’t like the actual content, but that is personal preference. I do like their approach though.

Except the solo restriction was unnecessary. ANet’s approach is no different than the route taken in Flame and Frost: outdoor content combined with a personal instanced adventure with Braham and/or Rox, and concluding with a 5-man dungeon.

We have the same thing in Last Stand: outdoor content combined with a personal instanced adventure with Canach, and concluding with a 5-man dungeon.

The only difference between those two layouts is the personal instanced adventures in Flame and Frost could be completed with 1, 2, 3, 4, or 5 players. Where as the personal instanced adventure with Canach can only be completed with 1 player.

Sure, solo players were fine in either example, but duos, trios, quartets and full parties got screwed on the latter. So, how is losing options a step forward?

People can’t group up to beat Canach? I swear that I’ve seen requests and even saw a video of someone doing it in a group.

So why are people complaining? Did people actually try to do it as a group before complaining there wasn’t an option?

I’d love more solo dungeons. I consider the concept to be a brilliant idea, you solo the dungeon, you get the general feel of it and you get a decent challenge. Then you unlock the real deal which requires a full party.

The idea / concept is great and it’s not fair that it’s getting reflected on the solo dungeon (instance) we got now as to be honest, is not the greatest of things.

The solo dungeon we got, left too much to be desirable, but the idea of having solo dungeons is something I’d love to see more of.

Well I was happy with the solo instance when I could farm it with my alts like super adventure box….

But ofc they removed that after day one );

Ayrilana.1396:

People can’t group up to beat Canach? I swear that I’ve seen requests and even saw a video of someone doing it in a group.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXdonavv9tU

So why are people complaining? Did people actually try to do it as a group before complaining there wasn’t an option?

I have no idea how they did that as a group. Maybe it was changed but when we went in as a group it split us into our own instance for the first story part. The 5 man instance is against Null.

Your question:

Ayrilana.1396:

People can’t group up to beat Canach? I swear that I’ve seen requests and even saw a video of someone doing it in a group.

So why are people complaining? Did people actually try to do it as a group before complaining there wasn’t an option?

The answer to your question, which was posted well prior to you attempting to score a point against the thread:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That was possible for a short period of time (maybe an hour?); the instance became accessible to players by accident before the patch went live.

Edge.4180:

Your question:

Ayrilana.1396:

People can’t group up to beat Canach? I swear that I’ve seen requests and even saw a video of someone doing it in a group.

So why are people complaining? Did people actually try to do it as a group before complaining there wasn’t an option?

The answer to your question, which was posted well prior to you attempting to score a point against the thread:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That was possible for a short period of time (maybe an hour?); the instance became accessible to players by accident before the patch went live.

No. His post is about people having access to the instance before the patch was live. If you watched the video then you would see it was recorded after the patch went live.

Edge.4180:

dbgamer.3407:

You want to be able to do 100% of your gaming with someone else?

Yes. I find that to be such a peculiar question. Why wouldn’t you want to be able to do 100% of your gaming with friends and/or a significant other when you specifically picked this MMO up with the intention of playing it together?

If I wanted to play a good game alone, I’d play a good single player game. There are plenty of them out there, and they all easily give a far better single player experience than an MMO ever could.

That said, I recognize that people like to play MMOs alone, and so I believe the option should exist. Whatever is fun for you. But that way of playing shouldn’t ever be forced on players who don’t want to run solo, because that’s not fun for them.

I respect the desire to have an option to fly solo in an MMO, but you solo-fans need to understand this is a two-way street. It’s not “your way” versus “my way”. It’s whatever is fun for either of us, especially when the game has the technology to provide that range of experiences.

Why anyone would be against that is beyond me.

Part of any MMO is personal achievement, whether you work with a group to attain specific pieces or not depends on the game and the player, but I don’t think you can say “it’s an MMO, so it’s SUPPOSED to be 100% groups” it just means there are other players in the game with you as well.

I think by your very logic all of the players who like to quest solo could complain about the fact that there is a 5-person explorable dungeon to complete. Just sayin.

Having you do one single “dungeon” by yourself that takes 10 minutes to complete is not worthy of a thread complaining that ANET is “Forcing us to go solo”.

Ayrilana.1396:

Edge.4180:

Your question:

Ayrilana.1396:

People can’t group up to beat Canach? I swear that I’ve seen requests and even saw a video of someone doing it in a group.

So why are people complaining? Did people actually try to do it as a group before complaining there wasn’t an option?

The answer to your question, which was posted well prior to you attempting to score a point against the thread:

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

That was possible for a short period of time (maybe an hour?); the instance became accessible to players by accident before the patch went live.

No. His post is about people having access to the instance before the patch was live. If you watched the video then you would see it was recorded after the patch went live.

No. It was recorded on the same day as the patch, (a patch which did not go live until mid-day). However, the instance was incorrectly allowing people to enter before that, and during that time it was allowing (in error) more than one player to enter (like you see in that video). Did you not notice the time stamp in the video you keep suggesting I didn’t watch?

Rather than make this kind of post where you suggest people are jumping to conclusions, you should actually try to enter Canach’s instance with a group first and then observe that everyone in the party gets split into individual instances. It might have spared us this entertaining back-and-forth.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/1-player-instance-appreciated/first#post1924676

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Why-does-it-have-to-end-in-a-5-man-dungeon

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Dungeon-Difficulty-it-s-too-hard

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Molten-Weapons-Facility-Problems

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Advice-on-Molten-Facility

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/LFG-to-finish-no-one-running-it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/F-U-4-Molten

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/molten-weapon-facility-lvl-scaling

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/flameandfrost/Disappointed-that-F-F-ends-w-a-dungeon/first

Here are all the threads I could find where people complained about having a 5 man dungeon at the end of their living story. I personally liked both the 5 man dungeon AND the current single person instance.

dbgamer.3407:

Part of any MMO is personal achievement, whether you work with a group to attain specific pieces or not depends on the game and the player, but I don’t think you can say “it’s an MMO, so it’s SUPPOSED to be 100% groups” it just means there are other players in the game with you as well.

Can you please point out where I ever said an MMO should require grouping 100% of the time? Because I don’t see it, and I know I didn’t say it, but you seem to think I did.

dbgamer.3407:

I think by your very logic all of the players who like to quest solo could complain about the fact that there is a 5-person explorable dungeon to complete. Just sayin.

And you can. Have at it. I certainly voiced my disappointment when Flame and Frost concluded in a 5-man dungeon.

Also.. what you said:

Having you do one single “dungeon” by yourself that takes 10 minutes to complete is not worthy of a thread complaining that ANET is “Forcing us to go solo”.

First, why are you bothering to debate in a thread that you (apparently) feel isn’t worthy of existing?

Second (and I said this same thing earlier in the thread).. the developers seem to like to test the waters with new ideas, and I would prefer this particular idea get nipped in the bud now rather than show up again later on a grander scale. Preventing friends from playing together is a bad idea. I would rather have this discussion now when it’s on a smaller scale than a larger disaster. That is why the title of the thread is “Please, don’t ever force us to go solo again.”, “again” being one of the key words there.