Guild Wars 2

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Chokolata.1870:

When one looks at the healing signet itself it seems sort of fine. The problem is warriors get massive sustain without any investments. All you need is HS and 20 into defense and you are a sustain god. No healing gear/runes needed! This is the problem!

This is a false sense of sturdiness and a blatant example of internal imbalance. HS outshines both other heals, which would be pretty amazing on any other class themselves. Hell they are amazing for the warrior, but HS is just better.

Conclusion: HS needs a nerf, not a major one. Perhaps drop it to 300-350 hps then go from there. But the problem, as I have said, is a composite one: HS+AH+Ire with only 20 traits into defense!!!!

Holy kitten. Imagine a S/D thief with Healing Signet. LOL!

400 + 320 + 200 (regen boon) per second. On Stealth. That would be fun!

(please don’t)

Imo, make the Healing Signet a permanent Regen Boon that activates every 10 seconds for more 10 seconds. This way classes with boon steal/corrupt can counter play it.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

I still don’t understand how the class with the most armor and health can have a passive heal that heals for over 400 every single second, while the class with the least health and armor can at best (fully traited with everything) get 260 health WHEN USING AN ABILITY which of course isn’t every single second.

Eles can use abilities more than once per second. >.>

Neko.9021:

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

I still don’t understand how the class with the most armor and health can have a passive heal that heals for over 400 every single second, while the class with the least health and armor can at best (fully traited with everything) get 260 health WHEN USING AN ABILITY which of course isn’t every single second.

Eles can use abilities more than once per second. >.>

That is player action tho. The signet passive is, well, passive. The player can virtually forget that it is there and gain pretty much the same benefit as others hitting an actual heal skill in terms of health pr second gained.

Hilarious.
I remember when this skill was very underused, mainly for niche “super duper signets” warriors…
It gets buffed and now players want to destroy the skill…

Oh the irony.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

This too. It is never, ever worth it to use the active. Literally, you should never use it.

Fine. Lets just leave healing signet as it is. Lower base health of warriors 5%.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

I appreciate reading the perspective of a dev about healing signet.

My problem with healing signet is that it promotes passive play and it has no hard counter.

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

Now we have counter play involved, if you can get the warrior hp down it forces them to make a choice of dealing with the lower regen or taking the risk of using the extra heal from the active portion.

gawker.8340:

Fine. Lets just leave healing signet as it is. Lower base health of warriors 5%.

Still wouldn’t help, they’d still heal more than the damage you can deal. No, the only way out IS a nerf of the signet’s passive, despite what Jon thinks. We don’t need to give it a massive nerf, but right now it’s too much when combined with 20 in the defense line. Try fighting one of these guys not only in sPvP, but in WvW. There’s really no killing them right now solo.

RyuDragnier.9476:

gawker.8340:

Fine. Lets just leave healing signet as it is. Lower base health of warriors 5%.

Still wouldn’t help, they’d still heal more than the damage you can deal. No, the only way out IS a nerf of the signet’s passive, despite what Jon thinks. We don’t need to give it a massive nerf, but right now it’s too much when combined with 20 in the defense line. Try fighting one of these guys not only in sPvP, but in WvW. There’s really no killing them right now solo.

You can’t do more than 400-600 DPS? I think that might be a problem on your side, not the warriors.

Aza.2105:

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

That sound a bit weird, it would be hardly any different from Healing Surge. After all, your suggested Healing Signet basically falls into two scenarios.

• If your enemy cannot bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then it is no different from the current situation.
• If your enemy can bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then the passive loses meaning as it will only act as a delay for the eventual active trigger. At that point, the skill is effectively identical to Healing Surge.

Olba.5376:

Aza.2105:

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

That sound a bit weird, it would be hardly any different from Healing Surge. After all, your suggested Healing Signet basically falls into two scenarios.

• If your enemy cannot bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then it is no different from the current situation.
• If your enemy can bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then the passive loses meaning as it will only act as a delay for the eventual active trigger. At that point, the skill is effectively identical to Healing Surge.

Using it when you are at 50% health might bring some crazy sustain. If you use it every time is off cooldown, it would touch 600 hps alone.

redslion.9675:

Olba.5376:

Aza.2105:

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

That sound a bit weird, it would be hardly any different from Healing Surge. After all, your suggested Healing Signet basically falls into two scenarios.

• If your enemy cannot bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then it is no different from the current situation.
• If your enemy can bring you low enough to make the active a sensible choice, then the passive loses meaning as it will only act as a delay for the eventual active trigger. At that point, the skill is effectively identical to Healing Surge.

Using it when you are at 50% health might bring some crazy sustain. If you use it every time is off cooldown, it would touch 600 hps alone.

I don’t know how the numbers would look realistically. This was just a general idea.

Ahlen.7591:

RyuDragnier.9476:

gawker.8340:

Fine. Lets just leave healing signet as it is. Lower base health of warriors 5%.

Still wouldn’t help, they’d still heal more than the damage you can deal. No, the only way out IS a nerf of the signet’s passive, despite what Jon thinks. We don’t need to give it a massive nerf, but right now it’s too much when combined with 20 in the defense line. Try fighting one of these guys not only in sPvP, but in WvW. There’s really no killing them right now solo.

You can’t do more than 400-600 DPS? I think that might be a problem on your side, not the warriors.

Every class would wish to have a skill that negates 400 DPS for doing absolutely nothing.

And no. Not every can facetank one of the classes with the highest Solo DPS in the game.

stop whining and learn to play against a healing signet warrior. i play both a guardian and warrior and if i get focused in a fight on my warrior there’s not much i can usually do, if i get poisoned I’m screwed. on the other hand how about those thieves who spend 90% of their time in stealth……… every class has strong points, warriors are not as godly as some think.

most classes are good solo, you need to know how to play it. ele’s are godly solo, thieves are godly solo.

ugh people

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place.
Jon

I’m looking at the same issue on the opposite end.

In my opinion, what makes Healing Signet so good is the unconditional healing at beginning of fights, not the middle nor end, the beginning.

I can take down any Warrior with any build no problem on my Elementalist.
The problem is it takes so long, I have to build up might stacks, keep applying burning pressure, apply chill, cripple and immobilize whenever possible and eventually the Warrior will fall. Even skilled Warriors cannot stand against my Elementalist.

The active heal is not an issue, every duel I had against a Warrior that uses the Signet while low on health dies quickly, there has never, EVER been an instance when the Warrior uses his Signet and was able to survive longer than 10 seconds.

The main issue is the unconditional passive healing which is too powerful at the start of fights.

There were three good ideas about adding a met condition to Healing Signet
-Making it heal more the more adrenaline you have and less if you have none.
I dislike this as it favors adrenaline-based builds
-Making it heal more the more conditions the Warrior has.
The condition meta needs to be fixed, not countered. Once again, not ideal.

My favorite met condition for Healing Signet was based on health.
_____________________________________________
The changes I would do to Healing Signet:

Healing Signet changes to the healing per tick:
Warriors Health | Healing per tick
100% – 75% | 225
75% – 50% | 325
50% – 25% | 425
25% – 0% | 525

Increased the recharge of Healing Signet to 40 seconds, increased the active heal by 25% and scaling with healing power to 1.75 instead of 0.5
________________________________________________
I prefer this for a number of reasons.

• It will reward people playing smartly as Warriors, saving your key defensive skills or CC skills when you are low on health.
• It will reward people playing smartly fighting against Warriors, using CC while the Warrior is at high health and bursting while low.
• Making Healing Signet a stronger ‘last chance’ card, similar to Signet of Resolve.

ohh i love this people still wanting HS nerfed why cant u get in into your thick heads

Warriors are the Battering Rams off any team why would u turn his only ’’heal’’ that allows him to be the battering ram he is designed to be?

HS does great vs anyone too stupid to bring poison and burst to the table but dont forget hes also got Adrenal health to couple with that…ohh zerks can sustain well cause off HS its op, no your just bad. am i defending my main? nope lovin mah GS mesmer, but am i defending a class that was buffed when it needed one…YES so instead off pooping in yo tuba’s sayin L2P il just say Less QQ More PewPew

If healing signet is nerfed warriors are back down to what they were before… a bottom of the barrel on par with ele class… people forget so fast how bad their sustain was before they got healing signet. There needs to be a better way than adding situationally passive crap nobody wants

Nova Stiker.8396:

The changes I would do to Healing Signet:

Healing Signet changes to the healing per tick:
Warriors Health | Healing per tick
100% – 75% | 200
75% – 50% | 300
50% – 25% | 400
25% – 0% | 500

Increased the recharge of Healing Signet to 40 seconds, increased the active heal by 25% and scaling with healing power to 1.75 instead of 0.5

This is the best idea I’ve seen dealing with Healing Signet. Screw my idea of a normal nerf, this is way better. It’s not OP until it needs to be to save the Warrior’s life, similar to that giant damage reduction from Bark Skin for a Ranger.

guise, remember, the passive is okay.
jon has said that.
warriors needed that for the sustain.

lets focus on the active.
by the way, the recharge time of 20 seconds is also okay.

warriors are supposed to be powerful in 1 vs 1 against those who cannot do burst damage and condition overload.

in team fights, focused warrior go down very quickly.

Aza.2105:

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

I appreciate reading the perspective of a dev about healing signet.

My problem with healing signet is that it promotes passive play and it has no hard counter.

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

Now we have counter play involved, if you can get the warrior hp down it forces them to make a choice of dealing with the lower regen or taking the risk of using the extra heal from the active portion.

I actually, like the general concept of this idea, probably one of the best ideas for Healing Signet Changes.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be powerful in 1 vs 1 against those who cannot do burst damage and condition overload.

in team fights, focused warrior go down very quickly.

Which brings in the issue of Endure Pain and Berserkers Stance.

killahmayne.9518:

Aza.2105:

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

I appreciate reading the perspective of a dev about healing signet.

My problem with healing signet is that it promotes passive play and it has no hard counter.

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

Now we have counter play involved, if you can get the warrior hp down it forces them to make a choice of dealing with the lower regen or taking the risk of using the extra heal from the active portion.

I actually, like the general concept of this idea, probably one of the best ideas for Healing Signet Changes.

i rather prefer the passive to stay the same, just the active heals more

passive: (392 + 0.05 healing power) per second
From 100-76% active: 3,275 + 0.5 healing power
From 75-51% active: 3,275 + 2.5 healing power
From 50%-25%active 3,275 + 6.0 healing power
From 24%-1%active 3,275 + 10.0 healing power

remember, the passive is okay, do not change.
warriors need the sustain.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be powerful in 1 vs 1 against those who cannot do burst damage and condition overload.

in team fights, focused warrior go down very quickly.

Which brings in the issue of Endure Pain and Berserkers Stance.

those 2 skills are working as intended.
low duration, long recharge time.

endure pain: only 4 seconds, conditions, cc will slow down, stop the warrior
berserker stance, only 8 seconds, burst will kill the warrior, cc will stop the warrior

please learn to counter warrior properly and not cry for nerfs.

killahmayne.9518:

Aza.2105:

I appreciate reading the perspective of a dev about healing signet.

My problem with healing signet is that it promotes passive play and it has no hard counter.

My idea on how to make it include active play and conscious choice is:

The higher health you have the more healing signet passive heals for. As your health gets lower the passive gets weaker. But the active gets stronger.

So:

From 100-75% passive: 400hp per sec active: 3,275
From 75-50% passive is 200hp per sec, active: 6,250
From 50%-0% passive is 100hp per sec, active 9,800

Now we have counter play involved, if you can get the warrior hp down it forces them to make a choice of dealing with the lower regen or taking the risk of using the extra heal from the active portion.

I actually, like the general concept of this idea, probably one of the best ideas for Healing Signet Changes.

I greatly disagree as this would utterly destroy Healing Signet or make it even more overpowered depending on what the recharge is at.

In my opinion, the problem is the passive healing in early fights, not late.
Also, a 9000 heal at 50% health?! Signet of Resolve would go kitten itself.

This is a decent idea but Healing Signet would be rendered either useless (if the recharge is 40+ seconds) or overpowered (if the recharge is still 20 seconds).

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Nova Stiker.8396:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

warriors are supposed to be powerful in 1 vs 1 against those who cannot do burst damage and condition overload.

in team fights, focused warrior go down very quickly.

Which brings in the issue of Endure Pain and Berserkers Stance.

those 2 skills are working as intended.
low duration, long recharge time.

endure pain: only 4 seconds, conditions, cc will slow down, stop the warrior
berserker stance, only 8 seconds, burst will kill the warrior, cc will stop the warrior

please learn to counter warrior properly and not cry for nerfs.

-_-
Read much?
The problems with Endure Pain and Berserkers Stance is TEAM FIGHTS which aids Healing Signet. Can’t focus a Warrior if they have a good get out of death free cards.

Another way to nerf Healing Signet, don’t change Healing Signet, get rid of the get out of death free cards.

Please allow me to stomp your Warrior with my Elementalist and don’t cry when I’m done.

I was throwing out numbers, nothing concrete. They shouldn’t be a representation of the actual numbers that would be balanced if healing signet’s mechanics were like that. I just wanted to express my general idea. My only point was to illustrate a way to give healing signet some counter play.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

It’s nice to see you are not mindlessly nerfing Warriors, since you are nerfing something, you need to compensate elsewhere and that’s perfect!

now… why don’t you do that with OTHER professions?! yah know… the ones you simply nerf time and time again?! hump? the professions you say that you will be nerfing A and B so that you can buff C in the “future”, I’m not saying you are lying in our faces but you notion of “future” is what? in 1 to 10 years?

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

What exactly are warriors NOT supposed to have? And what defines the Elementalist?

I am really losing faith in the balance team, especially when I see posts like this…

It’s impossible to fix the passive/active aspect of Healing Signet without significantly reducing the passive and boosting or changing the active.

Consider that players generally don’t need large healing bursts; the significant healing over time is sufficient when combined with kiting, LoS, and defensive cooldowns. That means the passive heal amount can be directly compared to the heal amount of a casted heal. There is no large buffer needed because it’s a heal over time. But because Healing Signet does have that buffer, it is generally way ahead in terms of total healing during the average combat period. The only time casted heals yield more total HP is when combat ends within seconds of casting them, which is unlikely.

As long as the active is significantly worse than the passive heal amount that is lost, there will never be a reason to use it, as detailed above. The active effect has do something different, or be almost no net loss.

It’s been pointed out that Healing Signet is much weaker to poison compared to a casted heal. I would disagree. Although any poison applied will affect the tick, the poison can be removed and doesn’t affect all ticks. In comparison, a well-timed poison application or interrupt affects all of a casted heal. So again, there’s no reason for Healing Signet to have higher total healing than a casted heal. The reason that it can’t be interrupted and doesn’t take cast time that could be used otherwise is a benefit.

Following that reasoning, I would do the following to healing signet:
Cooldown: 15 seconds.
Passive: 330 HP / second with a 0.05 coefficient.
Active: 4450 HP with a .75 coefficient

That makes the passive heal for 9900 over 30 seconds, a little more than what Healing Surge (30sec CD) heals for at max adrenaline. The active portion I’ve chosen is 90% of the passive healing over the cooldown period. In combination with the lower cooldown, this makes using the active have a penalty, but not completely pointless. The coefficients give the same HPS from +healing as stage3 Healing Surge. And this gives potential interesting mechanics with Signet Mastery on the active, which would actually increase the total healing.

A couple potential counter arguments:
- Yes, Healing Surge does give Adrenaline. But if you’re getting the stage 3 benefit, that bonus is irrelevant. In addition, Healing Signet for the same HP over time can’t be interrupted, and has no pre-requisite to get the full benefit.
- Yes, Healing Signet will lose some effectiveness to poison. Warriors are bound to be affected by it for at least a few ticks. Even if it’s on you for 50% of the time, my numbers still give you 8200 HP over 30 seconds completely passive. And that’s where a boosted active comes into play. You can use that during an interval where you don’t have poison. Again, it’s a trade-off for high healing over time with no prerequisite that can’t be interrupted.
- If this healing amount is too low, then all warrior healing is too low, even after it was buffed a few months ago.

BAEK.8561:

I have a warrior, and I think the scaling is poor. IMO, that’s where the problem is: with NO healing power, it’s still 392 HP/sec. With max healing power, it’s only like 430 HP/sec or something.

They should change it so that it starts off at ~300 HP/sec and give better scaling so that warriors have to actually spec into healing power.

so make bunker is the only viable build ?!

bad idea

I think healing signet should be affected by proximity to your target. When you are in, say 600 range you get full hps, when not in range it gets cut in half or something. Change the active to something like Ranger’s Troll Unguent (maybe 600hps for 8s).

It would give healing signet some weakness to stealthing/ranged enemies, and the active would have situational use. You could use the active to help guarantee an escape and the change would mitigate the cheesy gameplay tactic of running away to heal/reset and coming back like the old D/D ele.

Exedore.6320:

Following that reasoning, I would do the following to healing signet:
Cooldown: 15 seconds.
Passive: 330 HP / second with a 0.05 coefficient.
Active: 4450 HP with a .75 coefficient.

Because of how signets work, this would make it a completely pointless heal. It would never be used by Warriors if it was changed to this.

It screws the passive for an active that’s pointless, because you still would not want to pop it.

Healing signet is completely fine as it is now. It’s a steady source of healing that has multiple counters. It’s not unpredictable, you aren’t going to be surprised by a sudden heal. Hell you don’t even need to keep track of the warriors heal like you do against other classes. You don’t need to time your poisons, or time your dazes. It requires less thinking for the warriors opponent than it does even for the warrior.

lol

Healing signet alone is not enough to make warrior OP.

what make Warrior OP is the combined CC + AoE + Cleansing Ire +Stability + Healing Signet + adrenal health + max toughness.

which translates to ONE BUILD the Hambow.

the real question is how do you nerf the Hambow without sending the whole warrior class to Circus ?

Chokolata.1870:

When one looks at the healing signet itself it seems sort of fine. The problem is warriors get massive sustain without any investments. All you need is HS and 20 into defense and you are a sustain god. No healing gear/runes needed! This is the problem!

This is a false sense of sturdiness and a blatant example of internal imbalance. HS outshines both other heals, which would be pretty amazing on any other class themselves. Hell they are amazing for the warrior, but HS is just better.

Conclusion: HS needs a nerf, not a major one. Perhaps drop it to 300-350 hps then go from there. But the problem, as I have said, is a composite one: HS+AH+Ire with only 20 traits into defense!!!!

This. The problem with Healing Signet is how it fits into the warrior. Do all of the Warriors whining about being bursted and condi bombed down not use zerkers stance or endure pain? These skills along with stuns and blocks make HS so OP because it gives the warrior plenty of time to heal while still outputting massive aoe dmg. Also the entire Warrior defense line needs to be changed. Has anyone ever actually looked at this line? When I first saw it I thought it had to be a joke. The minors on this line are better than most other classes major traits. The 25 is what allows warriors to be so defensive and offensive at the same time. It literality rewards the warrior with attack by traiting to be more defensive. Other classes have 5-7% bonuses as major trait options and the warrior gets 10% as a minor. The Majors in this line are equally broken. This is not close the best trait line in the game and every single warrior uses it.

Healing signet changes: This may be shot down quick, but I though a creative way to for survivability, but this would not heal you, it will instead sustain your healthpool.

Signet of Stone Flesh
Cast time: Instant
Cooldown: 5sec

Passive: 15% reduce damage taken

Active: Your health cannot go lower then 90%, 50%, or 10% for 2 seconds, grants aegis at the end of the duration.

Note: Shield Stance can be used in between, Berzerker Stance/Endure Pain Can be used in between, Fear Me!, Bull’s Charge, Stomp, Hammer stuns, and the rest of the CC can be used to buy time for the signet.

These were just invented numbers and not much statistics were done for it and this might not be the best idea, but this might inspire people to think of something creative.

passive sustain must be there.
the active may be reworked.

okies here’s my revised idea

passive: (392 + 0.05 healing power) per second
active: 3,275 + 0.5 healing power

health 75% or lower, recharge time -20%
health 50% or lower, recharge time -30%
health 25% or lower, recharge time -40%

i.e. faster recharge time when the warrior uses it when closer to death.
with signet mastery additional -20% total -60% it is 8 seconds recharge time when the warrior uses it at 25% health or lower.

active heal amount remains the same though.

Juba.8406:

Healing signet alone is not enough to make warrior OP.

what make Warrior OP is the combined CC + AoE + Cleansing Ire +Stability + Healing Signet + adrenal health + max toughness.

The Point of this nerf is to promote “Active” play instead of “Passive” play. When i see a guardian keeping his block heal, and waiting at just the right moment to block an eviscerate and time when to use his walls/bubbles at just the right place at the right location and timing some blinds for that hammer stun/dangerous skill, that takes skill and knowledge of the game to pull off, rather then Mr. Warrior troll swinging everywhere and dosen’t give two kittens of whats going on because he’s already healing up with his signet and the rest of his HamBow cheese armor to back him up.

Drazerg.8956:

Juba.8406:

Healing signet alone is not enough to make warrior OP.

what make Warrior OP is the combined CC + AoE + Cleansing Ire +Stability + Healing Signet + adrenal health + max toughness.

which translates to ONE BUILD the Hambow.

The Point of this nerf is to promote “Active” play instead of “Passive” play. When i see a guardian keeping his block heal, and waiting at just the right moment to block an eviscerate and time when to use his walls/bubbles at just the right place at the right location and timing some blinds for that hammer stun/dangerous skill, that takes skill and knowledge of the game to pull off, rather then Mr. Warrior troll swinging everywhere and dosen’t give two kittens of whats going on because he’s already healing up with his signet and the rest of his HamBow cheese armor to back him up.

Warrior is not a Guardian, warrior’s “supposed active play” is wrecking things up not healing and blocking, thats other class job, so passive healing suits warrior well as it makes him focus more on damage.

but again you are QQing about just one build, just one.

which is indeed strong but not because of healing signet alone as i said above.

the trick is how to nerf Hambow without sending warrior garbage , already Hammer and Long Bow received big damage nerfs but still Hambow is what mostly warriors play in PvP.

As stated before, the Healing Signet flows very well with a lot of the Warrior’s most powerful mechanics at this time (blocks, stances that improve defense, other forms of regeneration), but this is all done without any hint of speccing into healing power. The only healing power any warrior would ever run is in the bonus stats in the Defense trait line (which only gives 10-15 more HP per second). If someone was going to get a passive regeneration of 600+ HP per second, they should at least be specced into healing power.

Granted, the only warriors who would ever expect to debate on speccing into healing power are in the Tactics tree (Shouts heal or Inspiring Battle Standard). If a warrior wanted max healing potential, they would have to choose x/x/20+/30/x, making them a bunker.

Making the passive base lower and making it scale higher with healing power is a start, but it would turn off the signet to other builds and possibly putting the warrior into a bad place again except being a pure bunker or using another heal skill. Making a heal skill only work for a certain specc limits builds, so one change isn’t enough. Once again stating something everyone knows, the active needs to be changed.

The active as it is now is simply “Heal yourself.” No gimmicks, like ‘cure three conditions’ (Mending) or recharging all of your Phantasms (Signet of the Ether), just “Heal yourself.” That’s… Lame. It’s not even a worthwhile heal. Increasing the base heal of Healing Signet would be a decent addition with a change to the passive, but it’s still really boring.

Healing signet has a 20 second (or 16 second) cooldown. The active can’t be anything game changing. The Signet of Renewal is only “Heal yourself” as well, but it has a MASSIVE heal spike BUT has a very long cooldown, even when traited.

My idea is to make the Healing Signet do something more. Even if it is a little change. Just something more. Even if it says “Heal yourself. Deal a small amount of damage to 5 enemies,” would be something. That would give the runes that grant some extra effect on heal skill use some actual love on Warriors (at least, give people some ideas that those runes exist for low cooldown heals.)

TL;DR: Make passive base lower while scaling better with healing power, but make the active heal more and/or have a bonus to it.

Healing Signet is entirely outpasing active healing, not just within the Warrior profession itself but other professions aswell.

Over the 20sec duration Healing Signet heals 7840hp, my Bandage on a 20sec cooldown heals 4920. A warrior nets almost 60% more healing (59.34%) passively. Meaning he doesnt have to stop and heal and his heal will keep going while CCd.

And where my heal can be interupted, his cannot. Where my heal can be countered with a very short poison, the only way to counter a Warrior as effectively is to keep him permanently poisoned.

The only downside is that his heal isnt great when getting bursted. If a Warrior dies in less then 12seconds his HS was worst then my bandage. But lets be realistic here, highest base health and armor. Ton of mobility, and defensive traits+utility skills. The warrior is not dropping dead in less then 12seconds.

The problem is aggrevated by how easy it is to pile more passive healing on top of this. Adrenal Health + Dogged March. And when you get a cripple/immob/chill landing on you, you’re regen will shoot up beyond 730hp/sec. Without even touching healing power gear.

And you end up with a profession that can forsake defensive stats because the game already passively gives him quite some armor and health. And its easy to pick up powerful healing on top of that.
By the way, what happend to guardians? Werent they given a low healthpool because they were supposedly so good at healing?

Passive: HoT which scales with # of hostile players in radius.
Active: AoE Heal which scales with # of hostile players in radius. Low base, high HP scaling.

Keeps it in the theme of a “Healing” Signet & forces player to choose between team support & self sustain.

If the Warrior is meant to be the durable, frontline fighter, then reward them for properly positioning to hold that line. Both the passive & active would have risk/reward associated with them if they both scaled with nearby enemies.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Sturdiness?

Let me get this straight, does that mean that warriors are dumb-proof and made to outclass any other profession in terms of survivability by design?

The passive effect for Healing Signet is fine if you can just get them to use it actively. Remember that the regen goes away for the length of the recharge as soon as they hit that button. To that end I would suggest this:

Passive: decrease the heal per second slightly (maybe 30 points) and increase the healing coefficient.
Active: increase the actual heal by about 50%, increase the healing coefficient, and have it grant might (3 stacks for 10 seconds).
increase the cooldown to 25 seconds.

now the active will be more interesting at the beginning of fights for offensive purposes, and also when the warrior actually needs a heal, which will happen alot quicker when he uses it to get the might.

The trick to get the warrior from sitting on the passive is to offer him a goody for pushing that button. Also, by increasing the healing coefficient (and slightly nerfing the heal) the warrior is forced to begin choosing between gear that supports the higher healing and offensive gear. This begins to seperate damage and healing so the warrior can be strong in in either without being overly strong in both.

sorrow.2364:

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Sturdiness?

Let me get this straight, does that mean that warriors are dumb-proof and made to outclass any other profession in terms of survivability by design?

Alas, that seems to be the gist of it.

Are you people out of your mind?

Tonight I made a warrior and went into spvp, got some supposedly decent spec.

At some point people were beating on me and my HP was going up instead of down. Keep in mind I’ve never played a warrior, have no deep knowledge of how to maximize my damage or rotation and I was still killing next to anything that came my way.

The only thing I can compare the class in its current state is Retribution Paladin in WoW from the first days of WotLK. Fool proof 11 yr old friendly class. Plug and play.

And you’re suggesting nerfing the passive heal by 50 hps, buffing the active heal accordingly and calling it a day? Well why bother even nerfing it, just buff the active heal as a 50 hps nerf is like that Zealous Blade “buff” for Guardians from the December patch or in other words it’s there but you can’t notice it.

What I find even more troubling is that the Lead Game Designer is telling me “Yes the class is intended to be kid friendly and require no effort to be successful, while still outperforming majority of other classes in what is supposedly their domain”.

Well thanks for the enlightenment Jon, now I know… Roll a Warrior or go kitten yourself is the name of the game.

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal.

Option 1: The passive help for the time until you need to heal.
If you want to have a useful active heal, then the passive will only be useful until the first heal, after that you’ll just use the active heal over and over. An example for this would be the “Signet of Resolve” for the guard.
F.e. Active Heal: 7.500, Passive Heal: 100.

Option 2: Strong passive: Only use the heal at the last option left
This is currently the case for the ‘Signet of Ether’. The active heal is strong, but not strong enough, that you want to use it constantly, but only in the case of emergency.
F.e. Passive Heal: 300. Active Heal: Depending on your health, you get health between 3.000 and 8.000. Leaving you with the risk to get interrupted once your health drop.

Option 3: The heal is only strong in certain conditions
This is the way to go if you want the heal to only be used in a certain spec like ‘Litany of Wrath’ for a meditation build. This helps with the balance, but will make the heal useless in every other spec.
F.e. the active effect will only be strong then the other heals if you trait ‘Signet Mastery’. Passive Heal 100, Active Heal: 7.000

Option 4: The ‘Healing Signet’ will no longer be a signet
If you like to have the constant healing and the amount of healing you could change the heal to something similar to the ‘Troll Unguent’. Cooldown and Duration 20 seconds, 400 heal per second, but with a one second cast time.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Remove the passive regen and make the active heal a higher amount over 5-10 seconds, still aiming for a 10k health over 30 seconds restored. (On 20 sec cd this would mean a regeneneration of 1111/s for 6 seconds for example). It still retains some of the effectiveness in terms of overhealing, while removing the passiveness of the heal.

Give another benefit to having the signet off cooldown. Increased thoughness/reduced condition duration/something along the defensive line.

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

Flat out nerfing warrior HS will drive us into a condi meta. There’s still much more counterplay to most warrior builds than glass condi, even if warrior is easier to learn.

What hacks me off is the loss of positioning to most team fights due to bruiser warriors, is that just me? I do however agree with Jon though the active needs some play, but not just as a small condolence for a huge passive nerf.

sorrow.2364:

DeWolfe.2174:

My reaction to this is to ask, what is the goal? Is it to put Warriors back into the bad spot they were last year? I don’t see Warriors face rolling matches left and right. If anything HS needs to have a buff to it’s scaling with healing power. Make putting points into healing useful!

No.
HS needs the base heal to be extremely nerfed and the Healing Power scaling buffed.

Healing Signet is not the only thing holding warriors up from where they were last year.

This, nerf the signet, give it some good scaling with healing power so that if Warrior runs cleric gear they get that much hell why not even a little higher HPS from it and end the days of the Half Zerker geared warriors with better sustain than a full support bunker.

Also while we’re at it, what other class has a 5k auto attack? Anyone? Hmm? hmmm? No?