Guild Wars 2

Stand The Wall.6987:

Passive applies only while taking direct damage.
Anyone?

That’d be difficult to implement since damage, technically speaking, doesn’t have a duration- it just hits by stair-step amounts. As a result it’s difficult to use the word “while” in this regard.

Serdoc.7261:

cymerdown.4103:

My suggestion, from my balance document:

Decrease Passive by 1k/20s base, but increase Healing Power scaling: 342 (0.08), down from 392 (0.05)
Increase Active by 1k/20s untraited, slight increase in Healing Power scaling: 4275 (0.6), up from 3275 (0.5)

The goal is to nerf the heal for DPS builds, while keeping it about the same for bunker builds. Also, make the active good enough so that it makes more sense to activate when getting low on health.

There ya go Jon, a solution that meets your criteria.

My only possible addition; to make the active more attractive, reduce the cast time to 1 second.

Increase healing amount and recharge time on active to a good amount and it becomes both more useful and a greater trade off. 9.5k (1.0) on 40 seconds?

Arganthium.5638:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Passive applies only while taking direct damage.
Anyone?

That’d be difficult to implement since damage, technically speaking, doesn’t have a duration- it just hits by stair-step amounts. As a result it’s difficult to use the word “while” in this regard.

You can make a buff that lasts two seconds each time you take damage, though.

It was not very long ago that Warrior was considered to be the bottom of the barrel in sPvP by the community. In fact, most of the polls conducted on the forums placed them as the weakest class in sPvP by a large margin. The main reason was lack of sustainability, which really comes back to what would be called a lack of ways to counter conditions. So, Anet came up with Cleansing Ire, Buff to HS, and a change to Beserkers Stance to counter.

Cleansing Ire and Beserkers Stance were directly intended to counter conditions….and I would argue the change to HS as well since it isn’t that great of a heal vs. burst damage. Was it too much? I’d argue no considering that condition spam seems to have become even more prevalent in sPvP and WvW. What I would say is that the root of the problem here really gets back to conditions. Too easy to gear up to be a tanky condition based character with great damage and hard to kill.

I would have preferred a balance review of conditions as a whole and the direction they want to take them. Perhaps it would have been wiser to cut back on the number of condition removals across the board but make toughness mitigate their damage? I’m not sure about this but think there had to be a better way of handling them overall.

I might be in the minority here and that’s ok…..but to me, most of GW2’s current balancing issues all can be traced back to conditions and changes Anet made because of them.

Arganthium.5638:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Passive applies only while taking direct damage.
Anyone?

That’d be difficult to implement since damage, technically speaking, doesn’t have a duration- it just hits by stair-step amounts. As a result it’s difficult to use the word “while” in this regard.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Vampirism
acts in a somewhat similar fashion.

What if the signet were to work opposite of the way it does? I mean, what if when activated you got a base heal and regen for 15 seconds or more (adjusted to the amount of healing it provides)? The passive could remove x number of conditions every 10 seconds or something else to that effect . That would mean that we have to actively use it to reap the benefits and would allow it to be interrupted offering more counterplay.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Serdoc.7261:

cymerdown.4103:

My suggestion, from my balance document:

Decrease Passive by 1k/20s base, but increase Healing Power scaling: 342 (0.08), down from 392 (0.05)
Increase Active by 1k/20s untraited, slight increase in Healing Power scaling: 4275 (0.6), up from 3275 (0.5)

The goal is to nerf the heal for DPS builds, while keeping it about the same for bunker builds. Also, make the active good enough so that it makes more sense to activate when getting low on health.

There ya go Jon, a solution that meets your criteria.

My only possible addition; to make the active more attractive, reduce the cast time to 1 second.

Increase healing amount and recharge time on active to a good amount and it becomes both more useful and a greater trade off. 9.5k (1.0) on 40 seconds?

Guardian’s (arguably the healer guy) Healing Signet heals for a base of 8300 on a 40 secs cooldown while having a rather underwhelming passive compared to HS passive obviously shows that your suggestion is way off than what the buff/nerf can get up to.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Arganthium.5638:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Passive applies only while taking direct damage.
Anyone?

That’d be difficult to implement since damage, technically speaking, doesn’t have a duration- it just hits by stair-step amounts. As a result it’s difficult to use the word “while” in this regard.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Vampirism
acts in a somewhat similar fashion.

Oh, I see what you mean now.

meh, could work. if the change was implemented im sure that the active would be increased.

Note that zero Necros use signet of vampirism because it’s absolutely terrible.

Arlette.9684:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Serdoc.7261:

cymerdown.4103:

My suggestion, from my balance document:

Decrease Passive by 1k/20s base, but increase Healing Power scaling: 342 (0.08), down from 392 (0.05)
Increase Active by 1k/20s untraited, slight increase in Healing Power scaling: 4275 (0.6), up from 3275 (0.5)

The goal is to nerf the heal for DPS builds, while keeping it about the same for bunker builds. Also, make the active good enough so that it makes more sense to activate when getting low on health.

There ya go Jon, a solution that meets your criteria.

My only possible addition; to make the active more attractive, reduce the cast time to 1 second.

Increase healing amount and recharge time on active to a good amount and it becomes both more useful and a greater trade off. 9.5k (1.0) on 40 seconds?

Guardian’s (arguably the healer guy) Healing Signet heals for a base of 8300 on a 40 secs cooldown while having a rather underwhelming passive compared to HS passive obviously shows that your suggestion is way off than what the buff/nerf can get up to.

Signet of resolve also has a coefficient of 1.25. I had also suggested reducing healing signet passive to 300 with a slightly higher regen coefficient along with the active change, just didn’t make it into that particular post. Honestly how can you complain about that kind of change, at least it makes it more likely for the warrior to use the active, giving a chance at counter play. And let’s face it, a warriors healing skill is probably going to be stronger than a guardians simply because thats where the devs want to place most of their sustain. If the numbers don’t work they can tweek them.

(And don’t think I don’t want to see some buffs to some guardians skills/traits either, cause I love my guard)

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

nerf: Healing signet passive: only ticks when in 600 range of an enemy.

Now this is an interesting nerf, leaving the numbers untouched but completely opening a way to counterplay the heal, since we will create some distance to disable the warrior’s healing when he needs, range kiting him, and the warrior needs to get up-close melee range to start healing.

I want to like this idea. It seems to me though, that this would punish melee builds and reward ranged builds for staying at range.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

dzeRnumbrd.6129:

Greatsword: Rush
- nerf: needs an enemy target to be selected (removes: running away)

Now this is not so interesting anymore, you are removing game’s depth and dumbing the combat for what exactly?

How is this dumbing anything down or removing depth? There is no excuse for skills dubbed gap closers by the devs themselves, being used as general movement skills and escapes. I am perfectly fine with that being the case for utilities, but weapons skills intended by design as gap closers, have no business adding to the professions general mobility period. Nore should it be usable as an escape. Personally, I feel all professions with gap closer abilities attached to the weapons as weapons skills, should only be capable of being activated when in range and with a target.

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Note that zero Necros use signet of vampirism because it’s absolutely terrible.

Which is where I want HS to be. Supposedly necro is meant to be the life stealing sustain class, but the whole concept is garbage.
Less passive play more active play.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Note that zero Necros use signet of vampirism because it’s absolutely terrible.

Which is where I want HS to be. Supposedly necro is meant to be the life stealing sustain class, but the whole concept is garbage.
Less passive play more active play.

Which is exactly why your input is worthless. You are posting out of a desire to destroy a playstyle with which you do not agree. The subject is balance, not forcing everyone to play your way.

I’m a huge fan of warrior HS and Ele signet of restoration, makes my life easier.

I used to think that things were not always BIS for armor and weapons with specific classes. I hate what celestial stats has done for the game, you can have all those good stats, on top of high crit dmg and crit chance. Seems like all classes have strong meta builds with celestial. Makes everything blasé, which counts towards healing skills. I like passive healing, the way it is now, no nerf. In fact think eles SOR needs a little flat boost, not scaling on some junk healing power from celestial.

I want to ask about all those posts about “nerf HS regen, buff scaling, HS for bunkers”. You know what war bunker is one of weakest pure bunkers in sPvP? It works good only against someone completely unexperienced or if you got coordinated team. No one in sane mind would take average warrior bunker over average guardian bunker. Pure regen is nothing without bunker utility.
Moving HS to bunker won’t help bunker, and it’s heavy nerf for other specs, they are still don’t have any reliable sustain source outside of HS. Mending and stance are jokes, surge is good only for pure glass, kill fast or gg. Usually gg, bunker condi meta says hello. If you open warrior builds, you can see Ire and HS in almost EVERY pvp build, and it’s not because everyone ignores alternatives. There is simply no alternatives.

Healing signet buff came with Queen’s Jubilee, if I remember well.

It’s all Scarlet’s fault.

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Balefire.7592:

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Indeed, as the class balance philosphies post clearly states, they were supposed to have an hard time versus conditions.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999247

Now they removed that weak point, though, so the end result is what we can see in any game mode: warriors everywhere.

ItIsFinished.9462:

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Reduce the Passive by 50%, Increase the Active by 100%
Passive: 196
Active: 6,550

Of course that is with zero gear, zero traits and such. It says SO much about this heal that people don’t even want to use the active part that is HOW broken the passive is.

Balefire.7592:

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Except condition classes still counter Warriors. They just aren’t 100% useless against them like they once were.

What condi class honestly has issues against a power based Warrior? The only one that comes to mind is a condi Warrior.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Reduce the Passive by 50%, Increase the Active by 100%
Passive: 196
Active: 6,550

Of course that is with zero gear, zero traits and such. It says SO much about this heal that people don’t even want to use the active part that is HOW broken the passive is.

do you realize how insanely overpowered the heal you just made is? A 6.5k heal on a 16 second cooldown?

Atherakhia.4086:

do you realize how insanely overpowered the heal you just made is? A 6.5k heal on a 16 second cooldown?

Of course the cool down would need to be adjusted as well. It is clear that:

A: Passive needs to be reduced
B: Active needs to be increased

It is also 20 seconds without traits. Increase the cool down to 25 seconds without trait, 20 seconds with trait. Would seem decent enough, more than decent

Atherakhia.4086:

Balefire.7592:

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Except condition classes still counter Warriors. They just aren’t 100% useless against them like they once were.

What condi class honestly has issues against a power based Warrior? The only one that comes to mind is a condi Warrior.

Condition classes don’t counter warriors. If they did, you wouldn’t be seeing Warriors everywhere in a condition meta. Conditions may be anywhere from good to mediocre versus Warriors depending on how they are built. For example, some of the toughest match ups for DhuumTerror Necros, which have been called OP Condispam, are Warriors.
Nothing in this game counters Warriors to any real degree.

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

Thats not my point, as someone already said ANet gave the Warrior the highest health pool, because they were meant to have subpar condi cleanse. Now that the warrior got buffed, it has one of the best condition mitigation/cleanse, so they basically lost their justification for having the highest base pool.

Balefire.7592:

Condition classes don’t counter warriors. If they did, you wouldn’t be seeing Warriors everywhere in a condition meta. Conditions may be anywhere from good to mediocre versus Warriors depending on how they are built. For example, some of the toughest match ups for DhuumTerror Necros, which have been called OP Condispam, are Warriors.
Nothing in this game counters Warriors to any real degree.

Sadly, this is the truth. The Healing Signet combined with Dogged March and Cleansing Ire pretty much has destroyed any and all condition counters.

Poison? Too bad, Cleansing Ire wiped that away thanks to using a single adrenaline bar.

Tried to Immobilize, Cripple, or Chilled the Warrior? Sorry, you’ve just given him Regeneration.

Tried to just DoT him to death? Not going to happen, he’s healing faster than your DoTs can damage him thanks to that signet.

At this point, Warriors DO need either a health pool drop to make up for this, or we give Dogged March an internal cooldown along with nerfing the passive for Healing Signet. Either way, no class should have no counters like this in PvP.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Sadly, this is the truth. The Healing Signet combined with Dogged March and Cleansing Ire pretty much has destroyed any and all condition counters.

Poison? Too bad, Cleansing Ire wiped that away thanks to using a single adrenaline bar.

Tried to Immobilize, Cripple, or Chilled the Warrior? Sorry, you’ve just given him Regeneration.

Tried to just DoT him to death? Not going to happen, he’s healing faster than your DoTs can damage him thanks to that signet.

At this point, Warriors DO need either a health pool drop to make up for this, or we give Dogged March an internal cooldown along with nerfing the passive for Healing Signet. Either way, no class should have no counters like this in PvP.

Dogged March needs to have the regen removed from it, it makes NO sense for them to get regen with their already obscene healing along with Healing Signet being fixed.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Reduce the Passive by 50%, Increase the Active by 100%
Passive: 196
Active: 6,550

Of course that is with zero gear, zero traits and such. It says SO much about this heal that people don’t even want to use the active part that is HOW broken the passive is.

Having played Warrior and using all of the current meta builds, I would suggest a Passive heal amount of 317 – Base amount with 0 in healing power. Then I would change the Active to 3400 base, 4000 w/ one bar of adrenaline, 4900 w/ two bars of adrenaline and 6100 w/ three bars of adrenaline. Increase the Cooldown by 10 seconds.

-or-

Change Passive heal amount to 330 – Base 0 in healing power. Then change the Active to a 2100 flat heal and 1 condition cleansed per bar of adrenaline. Increase the Cooldown by 15 seconds.

havoc.6814:

Stand The Wall.6987:

Ghostextechnica.3270:

Note that zero Necros use signet of vampirism because it’s absolutely terrible.

Which is where I want HS to be. Supposedly necro is meant to be the life stealing sustain class, but the whole concept is garbage.
Less passive play more active play.

Which is exactly why your input is worthless. You are posting out of a desire to destroy a playstyle with which you do not agree. The subject is balance, not forcing everyone to play your way.

Oh so making HS on par with another heal means I want to destroy a playstyle, ok. No argument here, but, what playstyle are we talking about? The one that takes no active participation to excell at?
I definitely want to force more warriors into using passive active regen as a means for victory.
Even if HS was reworked to be half current passive double current active, thats still 200 per sec + regen + adrenal health which would be around 600? Do you think more passive regen is necessary? Should warriors be tic’ing for upwards of 800 per sec on an average wvw setup? I dont.

Balefire.7592:

Atherakhia.4086:

Balefire.7592:

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Except condition classes still counter Warriors. They just aren’t 100% useless against them like they once were.

What condi class honestly has issues against a power based Warrior? The only one that comes to mind is a condi Warrior.

Condition classes don’t counter warriors. If they did, you wouldn’t be seeing Warriors everywhere in a condition meta. Conditions may be anywhere from good to mediocre versus Warriors depending on how they are built. For example, some of the toughest match ups for DhuumTerror Necros, which have been called OP Condispam, are Warriors.
Nothing in this game counters Warriors to any real degree.

you mean in sPvP? Every warrior there is running condis…

Warriors are running rampant in sPvP because the 2 strongest counters to them (mesmers and elementalists) can’t find traction in the current condi meta.

Rednik.3809:

I want to ask about all those posts about “nerf HS regen, buff scaling, HS for bunkers”. You know what war bunker is one of weakest pure bunkers in sPvP? It works good only against someone completely unexperienced or if you got coordinated team. No one in sane mind would take average warrior bunker over average guardian bunker. Pure regen is nothing without bunker utility.
Moving HS to bunker won’t help bunker, and it’s heavy nerf for other specs, they are still don’t have any reliable sustain source outside of HS. Mending and stance are jokes, surge is good only for pure glass, kill fast or gg. Usually gg, bunker condi meta says hello. If you open warrior builds, you can see Ire and HS in almost EVERY pvp build, and it’s not because everyone ignores alternatives. There is simply no alternatives.

The problem with HS is that it gives too much sustain to non-cleric Warriors
Mending is a joke? Rofl.

Fact is that if guardian wasn’t so OP at bunkering, Warrior will come just right after it.

Balefire.7592:

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Warriors also have very limited sources of regeneration and protection, which ALSO balances their high health pool, defense, and heal signet.

People just laser focus on healing signet without considering the whole package.

Mesmer and Ele two strongest counters? Are you kidding me?

The two strongest counters to Warrior are Necro and Ranger. Both of which body warriors pretty hard.

Ahlen.7591:

Balefire.7592:

Artaz.3819:

laquito.5269:

Haha some people are still serious about HS being balanced? :’D You basically got a perma Troll Unguent, combined with the highest base damage attacks, low weapon cooldowns, highest armor rating and highest base health pool. Oh not to forget Autostability, (which is a joke) tons of CC- and stun- chaining capabilities and lets not forget about 10s invul to condis/direct damage, but yes that is totally balanced.

Warriors are a complete joke class-depth wise atm, lots of passive play & easy going playstyle. If ANet doesnt want to nerf the Healing Signet, they could atleast downgrade them to Midtier Health Pool. They may have needed a High Health Pool in the past, but ever since HS, Cleansing Ire, Adrenalin Health, & Stance got buffed, theres no justification for a High Health Pool.

• Mina – S/D Thief & Ranger
  Kodash*

Seriously, stop. There is no need to have a highly biased view of balance into an specific objective suggestions thread on one ability. You just described the typical traits taken in a Warrior sustain build. It’s akin to Thief perma-stealth complaints which involves multiple traits, utilities and a specific weapon setup.

Warriors received massive additions and changes for condition removal/mitigation is fairly understandable.

Warriors were horrible outside of a warhorn conversion (bugged with Soldier’s Runes and has been fixed since) and Shout utility builds with Soldier’s Runes in removing conditions including Mending/SoS.

There were no other options besides Mobile Strikes and Restorative traits which are exactly the same as when released and are very close to the garbage pile in practical terms of use (nothing wrong with those two traits but they are on par with baseline Adept traits).

By definition, if the Warrior developer vision is for them to have a fairly high sustain-option, Warriors must also have multiple anti-condition abilities/traits and a healthly HPS rate.

TL;DR If you can’t get past the all-in sustain build, you are missing the point.

As I recall, based on statements by the Devs, the rationale for Warriors having high health pools was that they were meant to have mediocre to average condition cleansing, so they used a huge HP buffer to stay alive instead. Given the fact that warriors have since been updated to have pretty good cleansing in some builds, it doesn’t seem inappropriate to throw base health into question if no other changes are made.

Warriors also have very limited sources of regeneration and protection, which ALSO balances their high health pool, defense, and heal signet.

People just laser focus on healing signet without considering the whole package.

Mesmer and Ele two strongest counters? Are you kidding me?

The two strongest counters to Warrior are Necro and Ranger. Both of which body warriors pretty hard.

So we just covered the big condi classes… Necro, Ranger, Ele, and Mesmer; all of which counter Warriors. Seems reasonable to me.

Ahlen.7591:

Warriors also have very limited sources of regeneration and protection, which ALSO balances their high health pool, defense, and heal signet.

People just laser focus on healing signet without considering the whole package.

Mesmer and Ele two strongest counters? Are you kidding me?

The two strongest counters to Warrior are Necro and Ranger. Both of which body warriors pretty hard.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

You were saying?
Think inspiring battle standard is garbage? In places like pvp, people do use it, and warriors along with their natural high armor and defensive skills have great condition damage. Its one of the worst things to go up against.

laquito.5269:

Thats not my point, as someone already said ANet gave the Warrior the highest health pool, because they were meant to have subpar condi cleanse. Now that the warrior got buffed, it has one of the best condition mitigation/cleanse, so they basically lost their justification for having the highest base pool.

The reason the got buffed is cause conditions are so OP and the warriors health pool wasn’t enough. They gave warrior OP regen and condi cleanse to counter their OP condi meta.

Well if the fact is you can’t nerf healing signet without buffing its active, or in other words balance vs flat nerf, then why not change how healing power affects it?

If a warrior wants to survive a fight because of regen, make them spec into healing power to get its good side. For example in s/tpvp a cleric’s warrior with HS would be ~450 while a zerker warrior using HS would fall to ~320. You want to preserve HS but I think its more so the other mechanics that warrior has don’t come close to HS so you don’t want to destroy anything you’ve built up thus far (even though you had no trouble nerfing S/D on thief over and over…). Warrior already has the highest health pool and wears heavy armor, they should be able to soak up and recover damage not out regen it with little to no investment. In wvw with only 25 points into the Defence trait line, healing signet does 406, and adrenal health is 360 at 3 bars of adrenaline (or 120 every second) which in my build, is easy to come by. 526 health a second with heavy armor, and I never can be interrupted because it works whether Im sitting still or moving around.

Signet of restoration works whether you hit an enemy with a spell or not, and also can be traited to retain it’s passive effect and you can actually dip into the active for a small burst. Ele must spec for the most part if they wish to make the most of this signet.

Signet of malice works per enemy hit but requires multi target aggressive play which thief has to really spec for to get any sustain from it.

Warrior just equips HS and its game on. Forget buffing the active just to nerf the passive, you’ll just be making another ordinary healing skill that will need more reworking than necessary to make it feel at all unique. Fix it’s healing power coefficient and it can be justified.

Atherakhia.4086:

So we just covered the big condi classes… Necro, Ranger, Ele, and Mesmer; all of which counter Warriors. Seems reasonable to me.

LOL, what?

Ele is the worst condi class. Only guards have less condis than eles. I hope you mean engis.

LelouchViBritannia.3607:

LOL, what?

Ele is the worst condi class. Only guards have less condis than eles. I hope you mean engis.

Then surely ele ISN’T the worst condi class…

Julie Yann.5379:

laquito.5269:

Thats not my point, as someone already said ANet gave the Warrior the highest health pool, because they were meant to have subpar condi cleanse. Now that the warrior got buffed, it has one of the best condition mitigation/cleanse, so they basically lost their justification for having the highest base pool.

The reason the got buffed is cause conditions are so OP and the warriors health pool wasn’t enough. They gave warrior OP regen and condi cleanse to counter their OP condi meta.

Okay, conditions in general are overpowered, so let’s give the necessary utilities to survive in a condi meta to a single class.

Makes sense.

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

My idea is make the active an AoE knock-back similar to Guardian wave of light.

The leverages the biggest weakness to HS: a quick burst down by multiple foes. By adding an AoE knockback/escape time for when you are being jumped by multiple enemies, in exchange for NO regeneration for several seconds, this would create some very interesting strategic decision making on the part of HS users.

Edit: knockback CC could also be used offensively or to prevent stomps… but in exchange for no healing, would YOU pop it??

Atherakhia.4086:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

ItIsFinished.9462:

Why not reduce the Passive amount by ‘X’ amount. Then increase the Active amount to ‘X’ amount dependent on either A: the warriors Adrenaline level or B: the amount of conditions on the warrior at the time of Active trigger.?

Reduce the Passive by 50%, Increase the Active by 100%
Passive: 196
Active: 6,550

Of course that is with zero gear, zero traits and such. It says SO much about this heal that people don’t even want to use the active part that is HOW broken the passive is.

do you realize how insanely overpowered the heal you just made is? A 6.5k heal on a 16 second cooldown?

That’s only slightly more powerful than the way it is currently. The biggest difference would be that you could interrupt the healing.

i play a warrior and when i get 4v1ed signet doesnt feel very powerful, also to all the people who are shedding tears over this, have you

A) HEARD OF POISON?
B) REQUEST A BUFF TO YOUR CLASS INSTEAD OF NERFING SOME ONE ELSE?

Kargath.6598:

i play a warrior and when i get 4v1ed signet doesnt feel very powerful, also to all the people who are shedding tears over this, have you

A) HEARD OF POISON?
B) REQUEST A BUFF TO YOUR CLASS INSTEAD OF NERFING SOME ONE ELSE?

You should never feel powerful when you’re outnumbered 4 to 1. Unless those 4 are terrible players. And even then, you probably shouldn’t feel powerful. Because there’s 4 of them. And only 1 of you.

To all the people talking with numbers, I suggest you look at other healing signets for other classes look at cooldowns, passives, actives and draw conclusions before you start suggesting ludacris numbers for 10 second cooldown increase.

The best thing that can happen to healing signet is to mirror the Mesmer healing Signet only instead of per illusion to be per adrenaline bar with numbers similar if not same as the mesmer one. 40 secs CD 6k active heal, 33x per 3 bars of adrenaline. The mesmer Healing Sig is not OP and it’s not UP it provides substantial healing if you stick to its mechanic, don’t blow your f1 when you want the regen (damage suffers for survivability).

Stand The Wall.6987:

Ahlen.7591:

Warriors also have very limited sources of regeneration and protection, which ALSO balances their high health pool, defense, and heal signet.

People just laser focus on healing signet without considering the whole package.

Mesmer and Ele two strongest counters? Are you kidding me?

The two strongest counters to Warrior are Necro and Ranger. Both of which body warriors pretty hard.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

You were saying?
Think inspiring battle standard is garbage? In places like pvp, people do use it, and warriors along with their natural high armor and defensive skills have great condition damage. Its one of the worst things to go up against.

If they have standard their damage will be low, not to mention you can easily kite them out of range of the standard, and they’re giving up a full utility just to get that regeneration.
Adrenal health is 1 tick per 3 seconds
Healing signet is balanced
Dogged march is dependent on other classes applying conditions.

Warriors have 12% innate damage reduction (heavy armor vs light armor).

Try again. I know it’s hard to accept, but Warriors are balanced and you just need to learn to play.

Ahlen.7591:

If they have standard their damage will be low, not to mention you can easily kite them out of range of the standard, and they’re giving up a full utility just to get that regeneration.
Adrenal health is 1 tick per 3 seconds
Healing signet is balanced
Dogged march is dependent on other classes applying conditions.

He was pointing out how easy it is to have uptime on regen as a warrior with his links good sir. Meaning he was invalidating your claim that he wasn’t taking into consideration the full package. Speaking of which, let me break down each part.

Ahlen.7591:

Adrenal health is 1 tick per 3 seconds

This trait is already as powerful as healing signet when you have full adrenaline, and way more balanced than it. I’m actually surprised that this isn’t how Healing Signet works.

Ahlen.7591:

Healing signet is balanced

Wait, you think having 400HP regen a second without having to put ANYTHING into healing, and without some gimmick to get it that high is balanced? No other class can pull this off. Hell, no other class can get close to this amount of healing per tick with one ability without putting points into healing, they need almost full healing power just to pull it off. When they do have a gimmick, it can be balanced since said gimmick requires you NOT to use the class ability, which also can kitten your offense in some way (shattering for mesmers).

Ahlen.7591:

Dogged march is dependent on other classes applying conditions.

The current meta is condition, and most weapons add them. Meaning it’s going to go off often, and with no internal cooldown warriors WILL have regen often.

Ahlen.7591:

Warriors have 12% innate damage reduction (heavy armor vs light armor).

So why do they need UNTRAITED 400 HP heals a second again?

Ahlen.7591:

Try again. I know it’s hard to accept, but Warriors are balanced and you just need to learn to play.

You’re high, aren’t you? The healing signet is not balanced, nor is Dogged March. If Dogged March had an internal cooldown of 10 seconds, it’d be balanced. If the Healing Signet worked like Adrenal Health, it’d be balanced.

Kargath.6598:

i play a warrior and when i get 4v1ed signet doesnt feel very powerful, also to all the people who are shedding tears over this, have you

A) HEARD OF POISON?
B) REQUEST A BUFF TO YOUR CLASS INSTEAD OF NERFING SOME ONE ELSE?

Lol, ALL heals are rather weak when its 1 Vs 4. No mention of 1Vs1? or even 1Vs2? Sorry but saying the skill isn’t “very powerful” in a 1Vs4 situation means NOTHING.

Right, outside of 2 weapons on 2 classes who are going to likely be Condition builds when using them, what other classes or weapons do you know of that can keep up the Poison for the whole fight?

Your Passive requires NOTHING on your end, Unless we have Poison on you during the WHOLE fight there is NOTHING we can do about that.The only people that think this skill is fine is warriors that are worried that they might actually have it fixed and actually NEED to use it every now and then.

A simple Nerf to the Passive, An increase in the active and an adjustment on the cool down is all that is required to make this not insanely overpowered, They could go further and tweak the effectiveness of Healing Power as well though