Guild Wars 2

I think that all here already knows that Healing Signet is “few” strong.
As Jon said, we need ideas, ideas, give suggestions about passive and active.

JETWING.2759:

I think that all here already knows that Healing Signet is “few” strong.
As Jon said, we need ideas, ideas, give suggestions about passive and active.

Best idea I can think of…give Healing Signet all the aspects of Adrenal Health, change Adrenal Health in some way. Hey, I know Warriors won’t be happy about that, but IMO Adrenal Health is EXACTLY how Healing Signet should work, as it’s not OP in that way, it adds a gimmick, and the player’s style of play determines how the signet will heal at any given time.

Though you COULD make it so Adrenal Health heals whenever adrenaline is used at its current levels, but change how it works at each level. Level 1 heals 250, level 2 heals 480, level 3 heals 720. Meaning multiply the current per second heal by 2, and use it as a single heal for that adrenaline use. Or change the multiply factor in some way to however you see fit…but don’t make it burst healing, that’s what a healing skill and water field blast finisher is for, mkay?

Combine with my idea for Healing Signet, it means if you go on the offensive with adrenaline you lose your Healing Signet’s full power, but do gain a small heal to make up for it. And likewise, if you don’t use adrenaline, you won’t get the healing from Adrenal Health, but you DO get that constant 360 regen per second.

Basically, it turns the combination into a combo that requires strategy, meaning you’ll have to plan things instead of it just being completely passive healing. Which if I recall correctly, Jon Peters wanted to get rid of more passive things in sPvP, and this would help get rid of one of them.

Jon Peters already said warriors need the passive for sustain, so the passive healing is here to stay. work on improving the active.

as usual, this is my contribution for fixing the active so that people use the active more often.

at the moment we have:
activation time: 1.25 seconds
recharge time: 20 seconds
Passive: (392 + 0.05) HP health per second
Active: 3,275 + 0.5 HP per activation

my proposal:
activation time: 1.25 seconds
recharge time: 20 seconds
Passive: (392 + 0.05) HP health per second
Active: 3,275 + 0.5 HP per activation
Recharge reduced when your health is below the threshold
Health threshold 75% – Recharge reduced 10%
Health threshold 50% – Recharge reduced 20%
Health threshold 25% – Recharge reduced 30%

note: recharge reduction stacks with signet mastery

also, various “bunker” builds that do puny damage should not complain about unable to put down warriors. work on improving your burst damage or condition damage first.

as for people complaining about no access to poison, sigil of doom says hello.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Jon Peters already said warriors need the passive for sustain, so the passive healing is here to stay. work on improving the active.

No offense, but I have a feeling Jon says that because he mains a warrior and doesn’t want a nerf on his own class.

And would a lower cooldown really warrant a use? Within those seconds of cooldown, you would have already restored more than that amount of health back. I understand it’s for burst, but wouldn’t it just be easier to just pop Endure Pain and then Fear Me the second Endure Pain is about to go out to keep damage off you? Actually, combined with Defy Pain, using Endure Pain after it would basically guarantee no damage on you for a while.

RyuDragnier.9476:

No offense, but I have a feeling Jon says that because he mains a warrior and doesn’t want a nerf on his own class. And would a lower cooldown really warrant a use? Within those seconds of cooldown, you would have already restored more than that amount of health back. I understand it’s for burst, but wouldn’t it just be easier to just pop Endure Pain and then Fear Me the second Endure Pain is about to go out to keep damage off you? Actually, combined with Defy Pain, using Endure Pain after it would basically guarantee no damage on you for a while.

does not matter if he mains a warrior or not. we are playing their game here and we will follow their rules. the rule right now is that warriors will have decent sustain with healing signet, only against builds that do puny damage though.

well, lowered recharge time is a good last resort if i am attempting to disengage from battle.

endure pain, fear me, defy pain all have huge recharge time. what happens when all those options are exhausted?

time to flee from the battle, maybe pop a healing signet if health is really that low. i might just survive that encounter if no one is pursuing me. 10 seconds recharge time is still better than 16 seconds recharge time.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

RyuDragnier.9476:

No offense, but I have a feeling Jon says that because he mains a warrior and doesn’t want a nerf on his own class. And would a lower cooldown really warrant a use? Within those seconds of cooldown, you would have already restored more than that amount of health back. I understand it’s for burst, but wouldn’t it just be easier to just pop Endure Pain and then Fear Me the second Endure Pain is about to go out to keep damage off you? Actually, combined with Defy Pain, using Endure Pain after it would basically guarantee no damage on you for a while.

does not matter if he mains a warrior or not. we are playing their game here and we will follow their rules. the rule right now is that warriors will have decent sustain with healing signet, only against builds that do puny damage though.

Meaning Zerkers can outheal against tanks, when it should be that the tanks are doing average damage against the zerkers and whittling down their health at an average speed. Not just sitting there taking the hits doing /laugh at you even trying to outdamage their passive heal which makes it impossible to fight them without going zerker yourself..

Ahlen.7591:

Stand The Wall.6987:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dogged_March
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Inspiring_Battle_Standard
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

You were saying?
Think inspiring battle standard is garbage? In places like pvp, people do use it, and warriors along with their natural high armor and defensive skills have great condition damage. Its one of the worst things to go up against.

If they have standard their damage will be low, not to mention you can easily kite them out of range of the standard, and they’re giving up a full utility just to get that regeneration.
Adrenal health is 1 tick per 3 seconds
Healing signet is balanced
Dogged march is dependent on other classes applying conditions.

Warriors have 12% innate damage reduction (heavy armor vs light armor).

Try again. I know it’s hard to accept, but Warriors are balanced and you just need to learn to play.

you’re good. too good.

Black Box.9312:

Julie Yann.5379:

laquito.5269:

Thats not my point, as someone already said ANet gave the Warrior the highest health pool, because they were meant to have subpar condi cleanse. Now that the warrior got buffed, it has one of the best condition mitigation/cleanse, so they basically lost their justification for having the highest base pool.

The reason the got buffed is cause conditions are so OP and the warriors health pool wasn’t enough. They gave warrior OP regen and condi cleanse to counter their OP condi meta.

Okay, conditions in general are overpowered, so let’s give the necessary utilities to survive in a condi meta to a single class.

Makes sense.

Well that’s typical Anet SOP when it comes to making balance adjustments. Why make small changes that could fix something when you can buff the crap out of it and create a problem to counter another problem that was created by overbuffing/nerfing soemthing else. Next they will hamfistedly adjust something else to fix this problem while simultaneously creating another and that’s how the meta wheel keeps turning.

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

8000 heal on a 20 second cooldown is balance? I think I just coughed blood.
If that’s balanced then why is guardian’s 8k heal on a 40 sec cooldown?

Arlette.9684:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

8000 heal on a 20 second cooldown is balance? I think I just coughed blood.
If that’s balanced then why is guardian’s 8k heal on a 40 sec cooldown?

because guardians have many other things to keep them alive.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Arlette.9684:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

8000 heal on a 20 second cooldown is balance? I think I just coughed blood.
If that’s balanced then why is guardian’s 8k heal on a 40 sec cooldown?

because guardians have many other things to keep them alive.

Warriors have many other things to do damage for them, what’re you trying to say?

Rephrasing the patch notes from December:
We’re pretty happy with where Guardian is right now defensively and we don’t want them to be as good offensively.
And now adding Jon Peters to the statement above:
But we do feel like matching Warrior defensively with Guardian while leaving Warrior’s damage as is.

What gives?

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

AHAHAHAHAHA, what is this sorcery? Let’s highlight the best part of this post.

[…] we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

:DDD

On Topic: As of now a Health Pool drop seems to be the most reasonable adjustment for warriors, keeping in mind that Jon/ANet wants to keep the passive of HS.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

Is this guy serious?

sorrow.2364:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

Is this guy serious?

It would need to be substantially more tbf, although 8 would be overkill

JonPeters.5630:

The biggest problem is IMO is actually the active heal. If we reduce the passive without doing something to make the active useful, we are just creating a different problem. Truly the active on this skill right now is in the following place. When I see someone press it I think “No No No don’t do that!” We are discussion some options here so if you want this to be constructive give suggestions towards improving the active. Reducing the passive is easy to do but we will not do it without solving the other problem. Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. Setting them apart with strong heals has been good for changing their playstyle feel, but we agree it needs some tweaks.

Jon

Are you kidding me? Does healing signet on elementalist or thief have some added effect on active part? Do you even play other classes than warrior, because it seems you have no idea what traits or skills do on anything else what is not mainstream (Warrior for most part).

Phaeton.9582:

sorrow.2364:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

Is this guy serious?

It would need to be substantially more tbf, although 8 would be overkill

No no no. I don’t think even 8k would be enough to make you want to activate it because it will heal that much anyway, and you could be interrupted or poisoned! This forces you to use signet mastery for it to be a buff and not all builds use that so it is only a small buff if even that. John wanted to IMPROVE the active so we would use it.

I think because poison AND burst is such a big counter to warrior that the active should convert poison into protection before it heals. And it should be instant cast. This would make you want to use it, and warrior would still be able to be burst down when on cool down. I think this is only way to make it worth activating the HS, otherwise what is the point?

Oh and Guardian Signet has 8k on 40 second cool down but not good comparison because warrior has AT LEAST 8k more health pool to have to fill up! Gaurdian signet passives cures lots of conditions and can ever cure condition on use and guardian can even cure conditions with lots of other skills when heal is on cool down! Go complain about guardian. Ele signet heals them 200 every time they cast a spell and they have less health pool to heal too!

You guys should not laugh at warriors being in bad place right now, you just want nerfs so warrior will be free kill again! LTP, you are all to lazy to change your build and tactics to counter warrior, you just need to spec burst bring poison and not fight 1 on one. Warrior is very weak when focused on by multiple people and will probably die!

John also said that without strong heals warrior is too much like all EVERYONE ELSE. Warrior should have the strong heals because it makes them stronger and is good for their play style, and that it still needs some buffs and tweaks!

Considering all that John said a possible fix would be :

Keep the sturdiness it gives warrior – maybe reduce the passive heal by 20-30 hps – give it around 10k/ heal and put it on a longer cooldown. So if you choose the powerful active heal it’ll rob you of passive heals later before it gets off cooldown.

An alternative would be to leave it as it is and just add an effect to the active such as condi removal or some other useful effect that would make warriors use it more often and would balance the passive by the fact that it is being used more often – ergo not so much passive regen.

Tl;DR, Healing Signet’s passive value is a problem because (1) perception that Warrior needs to be able to bunker at the level of Guardian (or comparable to certain other class build bunkers) when spec’d for it and (2) condition heavy meta driving the need for HPS over burst healing in order to achieve bunker objective.

If you change Healing Signet and still want Warriors to be bunker-capable, what is being done to heavy condition-spam meta? (Note, this question also encompasses Warrior condition spam meta.) i.e. less damage per condition type (aka Confusion condition nerf) or lowering base durations on damage conditions or placing even further condition quantity caps on players or ???

Mightymealworm.8409:

Phaeton.9582:

sorrow.2364:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Maybe we should just increase the heal amount of active to 8000, so you don’t lose any of your healing potential over the 20 second cool down. I think it is balanced because you would heal that much anyway, therefore 8000 healing on a 20 second cool down is balanced. And it would make signet mastery a buff. The active would also be weak to poison, just like the passive so u can counter it.

Besides warrior has no other sustain, we can’t dodge, block, blind, have protection, weakness, kite, disengage, teleport, have no ranged weapons, have no immunities, have no other skills that heal and all our skills have a cool down.

We need this, we are in a bad way.

Is this guy serious?

It would need to be substantially more tbf, although 8 would be overkill

No no no. I don’t think even 8k would be enough to make you want to activate it because it will heal that much anyway, and you could be interrupted or poisoned! This forces you to use signet mastery for it to be a buff and not all builds use that so it is only a small buff if even that. John wanted to IMPROVE the active so we would use it.

I think because poison AND burst is such a big counter to warrior that the active should convert poison into protection before it heals. And it should be instant cast. This would make you want to use it, and warrior would still be able to be burst down when on cool down. I think this is only way to make it worth activating the HS, otherwise what is the point?

Oh and Guardian Signet has 8k on 40 second cool down but not good comparison because warrior has AT LEAST 8k more health pool to have to fill up! Gaurdian signet passives cures lots of conditions and can ever cure condition on use and guardian can even cure conditions with lots of other skills when heal is on cool down! Go complain about guardian. Ele signet heals them 200 every time they cast a spell and they have less health pool to heal too!

You guys should not laugh at warriors being in bad place right now, you just want nerfs so warrior will be free kill again! LTP, you are all to lazy to change your build and tactics to counter warrior, you just need to spec burst bring poison and not fight 1 on one. Warrior is very weak when focused on by multiple people and will probably die!

John also said that without strong heals warrior is too much like all EVERYONE ELSE. Warrior should have the strong heals because it makes them stronger and is good for their play style, and that it still needs some buffs and tweaks!

Poison and Burst is such a big counter to every class, muffin.

“Gaurdian signet passives cures lots of conditions and can ever cure condition on use and guardian can even cure conditions with lots of other skills when heal is on cool down!”

Many conditions? How does 1 random condition every 10 secs compare even remotely to Warrior’s Healing Signet? And yea Guardian can cure conditions with lots of other skills, and warrior can simply Opt Out from getting any conditions on them, period.

“Ele signet heals them 200 every time they cast a spell and they have less health pool to heal too! "

PRICELESS!!!, JUST PRICELESS!!!

“You guys should not laugh at warriors being in bad place right now, you just want nerfs so warrior will be free kill again! LTP, you are all to lazy to change your build and tactics to counter warrior, you just need to spec burst bring poison and not fight 1 on one. Warrior is very weak when focused on by multiple people and will probably die!”

Not sure if serious or trolling but…
Can I have some of what you’ve been smoking?

Mightymealworm.8409:

No no no. I don’t think even 8k would be enough to make you want to activate it because it will heal that much anyway, and you could be interrupted or poisoned! This forces you to use signet mastery for it to be a buff and not all builds use that so it is only a small buff if even that. John wanted to IMPROVE the active so we would use it.

I think because poison AND burst is such a big counter to warrior that the active should convert poison into protection before it heals. And it should be instant cast. This would make you want to use it, and warrior would still be able to be burst down when on cool down. I think this is only way to make it worth activating the HS, otherwise what is the point?

Oh and Guardian Signet has 8k on 40 second cool down but not good comparison because warrior has AT LEAST 8k more health pool to have to fill up! Gaurdian signet passives cures lots of conditions and can ever cure condition on use and guardian can even cure conditions with lots of other skills when heal is on cool down! Go complain about guardian. Ele signet heals them 200 every time they cast a spell and they have less health pool to heal too!

You guys should not laugh at warriors being in bad place right now, you just want nerfs so warrior will be free kill again! LTP, you are all to lazy to change your build and tactics to counter warrior, you just need to spec burst bring poison and not fight 1 on one. Warrior is very weak when focused on by multiple people and will probably die!

John also said that without strong heals warrior is too much like all EVERYONE ELSE. Warrior should have the strong heals because it makes them stronger and is good for their play style, and that it still needs some buffs and tweaks!

No doubt he isn’t serious now.

My others ideias:

As the Dev said, warrior will have the passive efect of HS nerfed a little and the active part buffed, or at least they will give to the signet some reason to be activated.

1) Decrease the passive Healing:

- 0 adrenaline 250 hps
– 1 adrenaline 300 hps
– 2 adrenaline 350 hps
– 3 adrenaline 400 hps

(between the use of burst skills for damage/clearing conditions, warriors will have less sustain than now, because they will not gain 400hps all the time)

Active part:

1) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you cannot be snared. (only snared).

2) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline reflects projectils.

3) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you chill the foes around you for 1 second/bar of adrenaline.

Having it scale with Adrenaline makes absolutely no sense, since that is exactly what Adrenal Health is doing.
Furthermore, that would not solve the issue that warriors would be able to spec full berserker and still tank dmg like a wall.
So.. What to do.. What to.. Wait!
Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

KrisHQ.4719:

Having it scale with Adrenaline makes absolutely no sense, since that is exactly what Adrenal Health is doing.
Furthermore, that would not solve the issue that warriors would be able to spec full berserker and still tank dmg like a wall.
So.. What to do.. What to.. Wait!
Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

No other heal in the game works this way so using this approach only for Warriors is silly. It has already been shown that Healing Signet alone isn’t that much more powerful than other heals in the game. Dropping the HPS by only 50 puts it in line with other powerful heals. Does anyone here legitimately think a 50HPS drop will scratch the surface of what’s going on right now with Warriors? Because if not, I’d argue perhaps the problem isn’t Healing Signet at all at that point.

Reduce mobility
Increase active by 15-20%
Heal per second only while taking or delivering damage.

The ability to remove ones self so effectively from battle and passively heal up is a significant contribution to the problem imo. By increasing the active and eliminating the out of danger passive your giving me the option to stay in the fray (as intended) or step out and heal up (loosing the passive). There is no risk vs reward when I can simply step out of a situation so frequently (short CD disengages) when it gets hairy.

silentnight warrior.2714:

My others ideias:

As the Dev said, warrior will have the passive efect of HS nerfed a little and the active part buffed, or at least they will give to the signet some reason to be activated.

1) Decrease the passive Healing:

- 0 adrenaline 250 hps
– 1 adrenaline 300 hps
– 2 adrenaline 350 hps
– 3 adrenaline 400 hps

(between the use of burst skills for damage/clearing conditions, warriors will have less sustain than now, because they will not gain 400hps all the time)

Active part:

1) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you cannot be snared. (only snared).

2) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline reflects projectils.

3) Heals the same but for one second for each bar of adrenaline you chill the foes around you for 1 second/bar of adrenaline.

Brilliant idea except for the last few patches the devs have been trying to encourage warriors to SPEND their adrenaline instead of sitting on it.
Plus – your heals will now not have any synergy with any adrenaline spending skills ( Bursts ) or traits that benefit from it ( Cleansing Ire) – good way to break a class. Had not thought about this one.

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

Atherakhia.4086:

No other heal in the game works this way so using this approach only for Warriors is silly. It has already been shown that Healing Signet alone isn’t that much more powerful than other heals in the game. Dropping the HPS by only 50 puts it in line with other powerful heals. Does anyone here legitimately think a 50HPS drop will scratch the surface of what’s going on right now with Warriors? Because if not, I’d argue perhaps the problem isn’t Healing Signet at all at that point.

Dropping healing signet by 50 a second is still 7000 health every 20 seconds. What other healing skills is that in line with?

Mightymealworm.8409:

Atherakhia.4086:

No other heal in the game works this way so using this approach only for Warriors is silly. It has already been shown that Healing Signet alone isn’t that much more powerful than other heals in the game. Dropping the HPS by only 50 puts it in line with other powerful heals. Does anyone here legitimately think a 50HPS drop will scratch the surface of what’s going on right now with Warriors? Because if not, I’d argue perhaps the problem isn’t Healing Signet at all at that point.

Dropping healing signet by 50 a second is still 7000 health every 20 seconds. What other healing skills is that in line with?

Troll Unguent gives 8500 every 25 seconds, 340 hps. For the ranger and his pet.

If Jon is serious about wanting warriors to be the masters of sustain he’s going to have to explain exactly what necromancers are supposed to be and he’s also going to have to consider some serious nerfs to warrior mobility because right now it’s just looking like class favoritism of the worst variety. If warriors were forced to stick around after engaging in battle heal signet might be more justifiable. It’s their ability to effortlessly weave in and out while enjoying continuous healing which makes it all so utterly absurd.

I think the crux of the issue here is that the powers that be appear confused as to what exactly the warrior is meant to be – and no, it cannot be all these things at once. The class needs weaknesses. Pronounced weaknesses.

JonPeters.5630:

*Also we will not greatly reduce it because it is giving Warriors a sense of sturdiness that we want their profession to have. Without strong heals, Warriors feel too much like everyone else. *

Jon

And what does everyone else feel like?
Answer: NOT WARRIOR

Serious troll is serious @JonPeters.5630

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

KrisHQ.4719:

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

I’m almost 100% sure if Warriors are given the opportunity to chose between Healing Signet or Damage nerf they’ll pick the signet. Which is why we’re here.

Everyone knows the problem is the Zerker Bunkers, not healing signet on its own.

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

I have no idea if this was covered in the 6 pages, but I’m just going to throw this out there as food for thought (disclaimer, I don’t main a war, but have one at level 80 kitted out with clerics gear)

I mention how my war is armored for a reason that i hope will be clear as it pertains to this thread. I run banners (3 including elite) with wider area and healing, with LB and sword/axe/WH. WH does the removal of condi for ppl and my banners cover a nice area for regen for the zerg with a handy group rez when things get hot. Between them and my signet/adrenal healing and a few judicious dodges I can talk A LOT of damage. Ad to that the blind from the bow and its fairly hard to hurt me most of the time unless I get REALLY focused down, and in a zerg that’s kinda hard to do sometimes. Here’s the thing though. On my guardian, i can spec for some great healing and support, but i will be doing crap damage at best with some moderate crowd control. If i spec him for damage, the support will suffer to some degree. On my war, with the signet the way it is, and then bolstered by my banners I can spec to heal a ton of damage, but i am also able to dish out a fair amount of it. In a large group I can be a double threat just by using that signet and its passive heal.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I have no idea if this was covered in the 6 pages, but I’m just going to throw this out there as food for thought (disclaimer, I don’t main a war, but have one at level 80 kitted out with clerics gear)

I mention how my war is armored for a reason that i hope will be clear as it pertains to this thread. I run banners (3 including elite) with wider area and healing, with LB and sword/axe/WH. WH does the removal of condi for ppl and my banners cover a nice area for regen for the zerg with a handy group rez when things get hot. Between them and my signet/adrenal healing and a few judicious dodges I can talk A LOT of damage. Ad to that the blind from the bow and its fairly hard to hurt me most of the time unless I get REALLY focused down, and in a zerg that’s kinda hard to do sometimes. Here’s the thing though. On my guardian, i can spec for some great healing and support, but i will be doing crap damage at best with some moderate crowd control. If i spec him for damage, the support will suffer to some degree. On my war, with the signet the way it is, and then bolstered by my banners I can spec to heal a ton of damage, but i am also able to dish out a fair amount of it. In a large group I can be a double threat just by using that signet and its passive heal.

With guardian you can provide better AoE healing, better area denial, better group dps by giving might and retalliation to allies. Warrior stands in a middle ground, not that great for AoE healing but better damage.

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Berserker is a gear setup and has nothing to do with traits or utilities.

Black Box.9312:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Berserker is a gear setup and has nothing to do with traits or utilities.

That is zerker gear. Not a full berserker warrior

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.

A full berserker warrior traits/gears for power/prec/crit. And in traits and utilities takes what he need to deal more damage.

Ofc i understant your point. just dont agree with the definition…

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

silentnight warrior.2714:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

I have no idea if this was covered in the 6 pages, but I’m just going to throw this out there as food for thought (disclaimer, I don’t main a war, but have one at level 80 kitted out with clerics gear)

I mention how my war is armored for a reason that i hope will be clear as it pertains to this thread. I run banners (3 including elite) with wider area and healing, with LB and sword/axe/WH. WH does the removal of condi for ppl and my banners cover a nice area for regen for the zerg with a handy group rez when things get hot. Between them and my signet/adrenal healing and a few judicious dodges I can talk A LOT of damage. Ad to that the blind from the bow and its fairly hard to hurt me most of the time unless I get REALLY focused down, and in a zerg that’s kinda hard to do sometimes. Here’s the thing though. On my guardian, i can spec for some great healing and support, but i will be doing crap damage at best with some moderate crowd control. If i spec him for damage, the support will suffer to some degree. On my war, with the signet the way it is, and then bolstered by my banners I can spec to heal a ton of damage, but i am also able to dish out a fair amount of it. In a large group I can be a double threat just by using that signet and its passive heal.

With guardian you can provide better AoE healing, better area denial, better group dps by giving might and retalliation to allies. Warrior stands in a middle ground, not that great for AoE healing but better damage.

I agree 100%. My point is that I can still spec my War to do some pretty decent large area healing over time while still being able to put out respectable damage without having to spec for said damage, whereas the guard (although they can spread around some might to people) does some pretty BS damage on their own in their support spec, and one of the main reasons for this is a war’s signet that is almost a set and forget passive heal.

Fungalfoot.7213:

If Jon is serious about wanting warriors to be the masters of sustain he’s going to have to explain exactly what necromancers are supposed to be and he’s also going to have to consider some serious nerfs to warrior mobility because right now it’s just looking like class favoritism of the worst variety. If warriors were forced to stick around after engaging in battle heal signet might be more justifiable. It’s their ability to effortlessly weave in and out while enjoying continuous healing which makes it all so utterly absurd.

I think the crux of the issue here is that the powers that be appear confused as to what exactly the warrior is meant to be – and no, it cannot be all these things at once. The class needs weaknesses. Pronounced weaknesses.

It has weaknesses – it can be kited to death – and it cannot specialize like other classes can. It has no access to protection, stealth, reflects and other gimmicks.

Protip – if a warrior has mobility then he will have no CC. No CC means no real damage dealt.

LOL kited to death? Ill just run physical utility hammer warrior with a cond cleanse like i always do in spvp and sword dash and shield charge at you then bull rush it so yes go ahead and TRY to kite my 20000 feet charging distances to death. Ill just cripple you down and jackhammer your head to your doom. You can dodge me once maybe twice but by then im already ready to stun you again and since you constantly busy evading me ill already be healing it all over from healing signet.

Hammer might have had a serious nerf to two of its damaging move but it still will likely obliterate you if you dont have stability and even then ill still deal more then enought damage to treaten your life or reduce your stability duration by a fair time by blocking with the shield or kiting around myself, + this build has both the mobility and the damage it needs to take down people, all i need is to gear full zerker activate my signet then ill have more then enought critical rate to crush people head. best yet is that the hammer got a ranged aoe cripple (gota laugh at people who tries to run away and god knows they always try no mather how many time you show them they cant outrun you)

20 0 20 0 30

All this post just to say prety much warrior got more then enought dash in its build to close up to anyone who actualy tries to kite it and is likely one of the most mobile class in the game. Im just giving exemple but dont assume that just because you fighting a warrior you can just kite it out since prety much all good warrior will have means to close up the distance.

my suggestion with this in mind:
power beats condition beats bunker beats power

- leave healing signet, cause its not really a problem!
- strength 25points “stick and move” delete. replace with a copy of Sigil of Purity + removing the bug that it triggers without condition on 5sec cooldown
- cleansing ire: remove gain adrenalin on hit and cleares only 1 condition not matter how many adrenalin u have
- strength 10points 2 “Restorative Strength” rework to remove 2 addition conditions and not the 4 fixed
- maybe remove adrenalin gain on berserker stance and mix it somewhere where it belongs into the strength line.
- buff berserkers might!
- maybe loose adrenalin on burst use regardless of connected to target or not

so now we have a bunker with little condi remove and good regen + little immunity but weak to condis. power builds have a active way to remove condis that is not overpowered. that was all what was needed anet!

Atherakhia.4086:

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

That’s completely irrelevant. No class should be able to bunker with full offensive gear, regardless of trait spec.

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

That’s completely irrelevant. No class should be able to bunker with full offensive gear, regardless of trait spec.

I´ve seen zerker mesmers and thiefs guarding points. They simply fight in another ways. I believe you mean that no class with zerker gear should have surviability. I agree with you in that point.

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

That’s completely irrelevant. No class should be able to bunker with full offensive gear, regardless of trait spec.

It’s not irrelevant though. A Warrior with 0 points in defense has only 2.2k armor. That is no where near a bunker. That’s only 150 more armor than a Ranger in the same gear.

How many points in defense do you feel a Warrior needs to invest before you’d consider them a ‘bunker’ spec? Would you consider another class that spec’d 20 points in their line that granted toughness a bunker spec? If so I have bad news for you… EVERY Warrior specs 20 in their toughness line at a minimum. The meta spec in sPvP and WvW both have 30 points in their toughness line.

Any other class that did that you’d call a bunker spec, why not a Warrior?

silentnight warrior.2714:

Black Box.9312:

Atherakhia.4086:

KrisHQ.4719:

silentnight warrior.2714:

KrisHQ.4719:

Harper.4173:

KrisHQ.4719:

Just make Healing Signet scale with Healing Power. The base should be much lower than now, and with 800-1000 Healing Power it should have the same effect as now.
But. This will create another problem? Healing Signet will now be useless since nobody specs Healing Power with a Warrior.
You’re right. Well, that is accounted for. The game should be balanced so that sturdy builds are sturdy and offensive builds are offensive (dat logic).
Making it scale with Healing Power solves the problem with offensive builds being tanky, and still enables the Warrior to spec defensively and become sturdy.
But the clever still knows there is a problem. Healing Signet will now become useless for offensive builds. Fortunately, there is a solution to that as well.
The Active ability of Healing Signet should simply benefit DPS builds. This could be done by making it grant:
Lifesteal and Quickness for a short period of time.
Daze your opponent on the next 3 attacks while gaining health.
Grant super-speed and a percentage amount of health based upon the distance traveled.
I just came up with these on the spot, I’m sure I or someone else can come up with better ideas, however the solution is pretty much solid.
The important thing is that the active heal has counter-play to some extend, and that the active ability is beneficial to offensive builds.

You do realize that John said they don’t want to reduce the passive because it was basically created to give the warriors their class’ particular feel.
And more importantly to give sustain to more offense oriented warriors right?!

He didn’t want to unless the active ability was changed, which I guess to some extend is fair. People need to realize something, and I will make it very simple:
The amount of passive healing alone is not the problem, the problem is that the Healing Signet is providing incredible sustain while speccing full beserker and dealing HUGE amounts of dmg.
Warrior’s have other issues as well, but not as major as this one.
This problem also applies to a lot of other professions, kitten as Necromancers doing Condi-Burst while using defensive trinkets.
This needs to change, or whatever happens there will still be problems.
So: The current heals might not work the way I described, but they should.

The problem is also people thinking that a full berserker warrior is a warrior with at least 20 points in defense and with all defensive stances on the utilities slots.

Except full berserker refers to the Amulet, and not the traits or utilities. So yes, a full beserker warrior can deal huge amounts of dmg while still retaining one of the highest sustained heals in the game. It’s better than Virtue Of Resolve even while traited and specced full Clerics.

@Arlette
I don’t see how that’s not EXACTLY what I just wrote.
I simply suggested a fix, which would still allow Warriors to spec for a lot of passive healing if they wanted to.

Spec and utilities have everything to do with it though. A Warrior in berserker gear running without cleansing ire, adrenal health, and at least 2 stances is a free kill to nearly every other meta class out there.

It’s nice to pretend 150 armor and 3.2k health is enough to make a difference, but a Warrior not spec’d to bunker is about as effective as any other class not spec’d to bunker.

That’s completely irrelevant. No class should be able to bunker with full offensive gear, regardless of trait spec.

I´ve seen zerker mesmers and thiefs guarding points. They simply fight in another ways. I believe you mean that no class with zerker gear should have surviability. I agree with you in that point.

Fair enough, I probably could have worded that better.

Atherakhia.4086:

It’s not irrelevant though. A Warrior with 0 points in defense has only 2.2k armor. That is no where near a bunker. That’s only 150 more armor than a Ranger in the same gear.

How many points in defense do you feel a Warrior needs to invest before you’d consider them a ‘bunker’ spec? Would you consider another class that spec’d 20 points in their line that granted toughness a bunker spec? If so I have bad news for you… EVERY Warrior specs 20 in their toughness line at a minimum. The meta spec in sPvP and WvW both have 30 points in their toughness line.

Any other class that did that you’d call a bunker spec, why not a Warrior?

Refer to the above. Also thieves that run stealth builds almost always have 30 in their toughness trait, and many of them are glass cannons. Traits are meant to determine class abilities; in this game it’s the gear that determines how offensive or defensive you are, and no class that has full offensive gear should be able to passively fill a defensive role.