Guild Wars 2

I play a D/D elementalist since release (especially in WvW, but in SPvP too) and I agree it’s a very good roamer with the strongest ability to escape (largely to RtL truth to be told).
I’ve typically run with variation of 0-10-0-30-30 or 0-0-10-30-30 or similar ones.
From that to being overpowered it’s a very long shot, surely we cannot tank immortally AND burst everyone down in one single spec, but sure we are very adaptable and fun to play, especially in WvW.

Actually I would like to have more viable spec, which we do not have at the moment, considering the great amount of buggy talents and lucklusters weapons.

You nowadays see more DD elementalists around, not because it’s overpowered, but because it’s probably one of the few decent specs.

muscarine.5136:

I understand man you already talked about temporizing, as i said it comes with two issues, the more you delay, the closer he comes to refresh his rotation, and second, your own rotation doesn’t refresh near as fast as theirs.

And that is pressure, of course you don’t hit for 8k crit, that’s not the problem.

This is either due to too strong defensive abilities OR too fast cooldowns.

This is field experience, i’m sorry i don’t bring paper numbers along with my words but you have to trust me a bit, i’ve done my share of spvp (2077 games / 1372 wins / 1736 top stat – r42).

And as i said first good d/d eles are a minority to actually really use their build to full potential, many of them arent an issue at all since they are clueless, soon as their RTL misses they switch to water.

I don’t want good players to be punished.
But i find that it becomes too powerful within their hands, not like every class becomes great within good hands, of course. Every once in a while i get pm’d or /map hated for nerf although i’m rolling freaking dual pistols.
In this particular case we go a bit too much over the top.

And that’s the main reason why people go for d/d set, it’s the weapon set which has allowed people to get close to the mage archetype somehow.
The class has always been advertised as a versatile and strong profession, but this cannot be seen in scepter/staff/focus, where you get “punished” for leaving one attunement, with less dmg, less defense and more.

Why should we be forced to wait 50s+ to do anything worth notice while still having lowest HP and armour in game?

What you’re suggesting is that the ele should have the lowest armour, lowest health, lowest survivability and with the longest CD skills in the game

Pls list me the “defensive” abilities of a d/d ele:
1) Frost Aura? 40s CD – 7s duration
2) Shocking Aura? 25s CD – 4s duration
3) Updraft? 40s CD
4) Earthquake? 45s CD

I don’t see any short CD defensive skills, the rest come from mobility and therefore is related to the skill level of the user and what’s wrong that?
Anet has already stated that they will never nerf a profession which become effective through the use of active dodging and timing, Anet nerf things which allow the user to stand there and spamm the same button over and over….and that’s not the d/d ele case.

I believe that mobility is a necessity for a light armour profession using close range skills, but above all why don’t you explain us what ele players should use if not d/d?
Scepter?
1) Dragons’tooth= 3s activation+ red circle + enemy who stand still
2) Phoenix= 3-4s to land hit + red circle + require mele range to hit at all
3) Arc lightning = 125 pts max base dmg at 1500 Power
4) Lightning Strike = 700 dmg at 1500 power

Staff?
1) Lava font= 2s activation + red circle + enemy who stand still for 5s
2) Flamestrike = 5s burning….10s CD+ poor dmg
3) Ice spike= 3s activation + red circle+enemy who stand still
4) Lightning surge = 2s activation + LoS
5) Eruption = 3s activation+ rec circle + enemy who stand still

Still wondering why people go for d/d?

Like I posted before EVERY CLASS ARE GOD LIKE in the hands of a good player. The reason you see more Ele nerf cry is because we do not have any other viable build so we are forced to play the one and only best build there is.

Ele is op True story ahahahahah check Ele’s elite
1 Tornado: USELESS go in Tornado form now in Tpvp or Spvp is like say Come and Kill me Enjoy.
2 Flame Greatsword: FAIL use this shit in Tpvp or Spvp is like use any other type of conjurer FAIL.
3 Glyp of Element: the only “DECENT” elite but the pet some times go random and usually the Water Element pop the heal far from y… there is no point to control it…..Necro can control the minion the ele can only pray.
I cr8 some good build for D/F too but that build are effective only in group of 2-3 ppl and Vs team with 3+ ranged class. D/D is the way to become usefull other combination are not so good atm and people just say ele op ele op so make another anthem Op pa Op pa Elementalist Style Op pa Op pa Dagger Dagger Style……

I almost never use my elites (for the above reasons), kind of odd considering how game changing they were supposed to be :p I’ll pre cast the gyph before a fight once in a while though.

Jiraya Sama V.7861:

Ele is op True story ahahahahah check Ele’s elite
1 Tornado: USELESS go in Tornado form now in Tpvp or Spvp is like say Come and Kill me Enjoy.
2 Flame Greatsword: FAIL use this kitten in Tpvp or Spvp is like use any other type of conjurer FAIL.
3 Glyp of Element: the only “DECENT” elite but the pet some times go random and usually the Water Element pop the heal far from y… there is no point to control it…..Necro can control the minion the ele can only pray.
I cr8 some good build for D/F too but that build are effective only in group of 2-3 ppl and Vs team with 3+ ranged class. D/D is the way to become usefull other combination are not so good atm and people just say ele op ele op so make another anthem Op pa Op pa Elementalist Style Op pa Op pa Dagger Dagger Style……

That’s so true… All Elementalist elites need some serious reworking because as it is now the vast majority of players would prefer using a non-elite utility in that slot rather than an elite skill

We literally got nerfed in the Nov 15 patch both to boons and healing (through EA also) (read https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012/first#post808152 ) than again to auras wtf else is left. I hate saying this but if you can’t beat DD ele learn to play there are no stealth, no tricks, and we kittening outline it for you https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/How-do-you-counter-D-D-elementalist/page/2#post917701

Fact is if any class becomes fotm in spvp automatically its in need of nerf. Funny how we already got the nerf before it became popular.

Why do you always assume we’re asking eles to get nerfed into the ground ?

Personnaly i’m not asking for ezmod against eles, what would be the point ?
I’m telling d/d needs tweaking, buffing the other weapon sets if needed would of course be a good thing. And yes your elites aren’t very useful atm.

Either lower the effectiveness of defensive abilities, either raise CDs on the rotation or defensive abilities, either diminish mobility, and by this i mean tweaking, not kittening throw it into oblivion so there is no challenge.

Or maybe the game is already absolutely polished 3 months later and nothing needs tweaking anymore ?

Why should we be forced to wait 50s+ to do anything worth notice while still having lowest HP and armour in game?

I’m sorry, what ? Is this the olympics of suffering ?

So basically you’re playing the weakest class in the game and it gives great results only because suddenly there is a huge injection of really good players who by some coincidence chose to play d/d ele all at the same time ?

Come on, this is the same issue we are having with backstab thieves. When i started playing gw2 at launch almost nobody figured how to properly burst with backstab, and i was having my own fun rolling BS.
Then it became a bit more popular, more and more players figured it, the build started to get shared and so on, now we get BS thieves everywhere.

It has been a while since then that decent players figured how to counter it, but it still needs tweaking because it is still very punishing even if you happen to know how to deal with it.
And once again i mean tweaking not what for some reason the majority of the players who come here to complain about BS seems to be asking, as in nerf teh thievz to ze ground so i can revenge and mock at dem.

Same goes for d/d… It needs to be leveled…

edit : And if i may, i suspect many of the people who came here to defend this spec were’nt even playing a d/d ele two weeks ago.

Really? you think Ele can do all of these at the same time? Have you not played against this condition removal/regen/high condition damage p/d thieves? More damage and more survivability.

Same with some engi builds. that are really mobile (non-ending swiftness) with a lot of CC and very respectable damage.

I think the biggest deal about d/d ele is seeing one jump around a lot, it annoys people, and makes them think it’s overpowered. A big part of it this whole D/D ele issue is more about the visuals of it rather than it’s strength itself; there’s a lot of visual positive feedback when an ele does something.

Allow me to explain; I have had several fellow players who are reasonably good at their classes and by no means no in the game complain about the ele’s mistform, alive…not even talking about the downed version…And why the ele is given the ability to be invulnerable and it’s ridiculous. Then I pointed out that Warrior and Mesmer have it with 3 main differences: able to attack while invulnerable, shorter cooldown on invulnerability and most importantly no significant graphical effects of invulnerability.

same things with ride the lightning…come on, how many classes have escape abilities/gap closers with similar range (or shorter cooldown to make up for the range like heartsteaker)…yet people think ride the lightening is OP? because it has such a unique graphical effect….some people even think ele’s are invulnerable during that.

So you get this class, who many people think should be a squishy and an easy kill….with these really big graphical effect escape abilities, what do you expect? people complaining.

I’ll give you one last comparison with the glasscanon warrior…people complain about HB damage, which has a very unique attack animation. On the other hand, rifle attacks which have almost the same damage but at 1200-1500 range and are harder to dodge/react to, are complained about 10 times less often…why? because rifle warrior nearly has no graphical effects, half the people out there think something else killed them.

Positive feedback my friend, and sadly there’s no class in the game as far as I can tell now that gives as much visual feedback as the ele..making everything look OP.

Allow me to quote myslef :

and if you ask me, some guardians, thief and engie builds bring the same issue on the table.

We totally agree about this, you know.

Also, RTL is way easier to avoid / interrupt than mug+C&D, it is by no means overpowered. What breaks the balance as i’m trying to develop is that the whole rotation is available too often coupled with such mobility and defensive capabilities, as in too much pressure.

One of the three options has to be toned down, in my opinion.

muscarine.5136:

Why do you always assume we’re asking eles to get nerfed into the ground ?

Personnaly i’m not asking for ezmod against eles, what would be the point ?
I’m telling d/d needs tweaking, buffing the other weapon sets if needed would of course be a good thing. And yes your elites aren’t very useful atm.

Either lower the effectiveness of defensive abilities, either raise CDs on the rotation or defensive abilities, either diminish mobility, and by this i mean tweaking, not kittening throw it into oblivion so there is no challenge.

Or maybe the game is already absolutely polished 3 months later and nothing needs tweaking anymore ?

Why should we be forced to wait 50s+ to do anything worth notice while still having lowest HP and armour in game?

I’m sorry, what ? Is this the olympics of suffering ?

So basically you’re playing the weakest class in the game and it gives great results only because suddenly there is a huge injection of really good players who by some coincidence chose to play d/d ele all at the same time ?

Come on, this is the same issue we are having with backstab thieves. When i started playing gw2 at launch almost nobody figured how to properly burst with backstab, and i was having my own fun rolling BS.
Then it became a bit more popular, more and more players figured it, the build started to get shared and so on, now we get BS thieves everywhere.

It has been a while since then that decent players figured how to counter it, but it still needs tweaking because it is still very punishing even if you happen to know how to deal with it.
And once again i mean tweaking not what for some reason the majority of the players who come here to complain about BS seems to be asking, as in nerf teh thievz to ze ground so i can revenge and mock at dem.

Same goes for d/d… It needs to be leveled…

edit : And if i may, i suspect many of the people who came here to defend this spec were’nt even playing a d/d ele two weeks ago.

And on what you’d increase the CD?
Can’t you see that eles are forced to go 30 in Arcane to use their own mechanic? Show me another profession whose main mechanic become effective only after being treated, we’ve already got 40s+ on our “defensive” skills, would you like to push this CD to 60s+?
And these “OP” defensive skills…got no: reflection,invulnerability,block, I suppose to force somebody not to hit me for 4s at mele range is too much, even though other professions can still switch to range in that case.

To ask for less mobility is complete non-sense, not only you’re asking for less survivability, but you even want less mobility on a light armour profession forced in mele range..and lol on what this mobility is based anyway? Burning speed? doesn’t that count like a leap that other professions got?

Maybe you’re complaining about our gap closer, than what about skills like phase retreat and overcharged shot, or maybe flashing blade.

So in the end me as ele, must go and stand still trying to kill a warrior with dragon claw hitting at 230 dmg, because of course I can’t have dmg as well

Mogar.9216:

Like I posted before EVERY CLASS ARE GOD LIKE in the hands of a good player. The reason you see more Ele nerf cry is because we do not have any other viable build so we are forced to play the one and only best build there is.

Whats your defenition of a viable build? Are the only viable builds the ones you can get good results from while rolling face on keyboard?

Arheundel.6451:

Regizer.1763:

Mogar.9216:

Like I posted before EVERY CLASS ARE GOD LIKE in the hands of a good player. The reason you see more Ele nerf cry is because we do not have any other viable build so we are forced to play the one and only best build there is.

Whats your defenition of a viable build? Are the only viable builds the ones you can get good results from while rolling face on keyboard?

So by facerolling on the keyboard you own everything while using an ele, I assume you’ve got nothing to back up your claims, no videos, nothing..exactly like the value of your words

I didn’t claim anything, I asked a question.

And on what you’d increase the CD?
Can’t you see that eles are forced to go 30 in Arcane to use their own mechanic? Show me another profession whose main mechanic become effective only after being treated,

Uh i’m not sure i understand, it’s the same for every class…

we’ve already got 40s+ on our “defensive” skills, would you like to push this CD to 60s+?
And these “OP” defensive skills…got no: reflection,invulnerability,block, I suppose to force somebody not to hit me for 4s at mele range is too much, even though other professions can still switch to range in that case.

Wth ? frozen burst/frozen aura + glyph ? mist form ? armor of earth ? pick you poison ?
I’m not sure i’m following you.

Maybe you’re complaining about our gap closer, than what about skills like phase retreat and overcharged shot, or maybe flashing blade.

Uh yea, what about those, i could give my opinion but i’m not sure this will have anything to do with how eles mobility synergizes with ele offence/defence.

To ask for less mobility is complete non-sense, not only you’re asking for less survivability, but you even want less mobility on a light armour profession forced in mele range..and lol on what this mobility is based anyway? Burning speed? doesn’t that count like a leap that other professions got?

Swiftness ?

Anyway, you want loads of defence ? Fine, then cut the pressure, i’m not sure you understand what i meant by pressure, which has nothing to do with burst or raw damage, i would like to invite you to read my previous posts on the matter, please.

Also please don’t go all like my main damage skill is at a 45s CD while you have 2 other attunements to switch with to keep up the pressure and one to turtle (and kinda keep up with the pressure may i add since these aren’t just healing/mitigate damage skills), you always have something ready to face what’s coming to you.

muscarine.5136:

And on what you’d increase the CD?
Can’t you see that eles are forced to go 30 in Arcane to use their own mechanic? Show me another profession whose main mechanic become effective only after being treated,

Uh i’m not sure i understand, it’s the same for every class…

we’ve already got 40s+ on our “defensive” skills, would you like to push this CD to 60s+?
And these “OP” defensive skills…got no: reflection,invulnerability,block, I suppose to force somebody not to hit me for 4s at mele range is too much, even though other professions can still switch to range in that case.

Wth ? frozen burst/frozen aura + glyph ? mist form ? armor of earth ? pick you poison ?
I’m not sure i’m following you.

Maybe you’re complaining about our gap closer, than what about skills like phase retreat and overcharged shot, or maybe flashing blade.

Uh yea, what about those, i could give my opinion but i’m not sure this will have anything to do with how eles mobility synergizes with ele offence/defence.

To ask for less mobility is complete non-sense, not only you’re asking for less survivability, but you even want less mobility on a light armour profession forced in mele range..and lol on what this mobility is based anyway? Burning speed? doesn’t that count like a leap that other professions got?

Swiftness ?

Anyway, you want loads of defence ? Fine, then cut the pressure, i’m not sure you understand what i meant by pressure, which has nothing to do with burst or raw damage, i would like to invite you to read my previous posts on the matter, please.

Also please don’t go all like my main damage skill is at a 45s CD while you have 2 other attunements to switch with to keep up the pressure and one to turtle (and kinda keep up with the pressure may i add since these aren’t just healing/mitigate damage skills), you always have something ready to face what’s coming to you.

We’re talking about d/d..not the utilities and the ones you’ve mentioned got 75s and 90s CD respectively what so OP about them? Going back to d/d I’m still asking you what so OP about shocking aura and frost aura , all they do is “force” people not to attacks for 4s-7s respectively.

Then you go and mention ‘frozen burst’ I mean really? It’s a 3s chill close range aoe, what so OP about it? All I do with it is to create condition pressure, a type of pressure which can be used by all other professions with no exclusion: condition staff mesmers, bunker engy, trap rangers, caltrops thiefs, hammer guardian and so on

The fact is simple, spammers get punished heavily in this game, unless you know your kitten..you get killed.
-I don’t use updraft on you if I see the stability boon icon
-I don’t attack a mesmer with chaos armour up
-I don’t stand there with big ‘ol bomb next to me
-I don’t attack an ele with frost aura up
-I don’t attack a warrior with defy pain up
-I don’t do kitten loads of things…

But you want come, spamm 1-2-3 on me and win, but then you get stunned/chilled because you can’t bother to read the opponent and then you come here on the forum to cry? kitten that man!

At all time I bring with me 2 types of amulet and all weapon sets, during a match I can change weapon and tactic to deal with a particular build/situation.
If I keep losing to a particulary nasty trap ranger, I switch to staff or scepter and deal with him, if I keep losing to a particualary skilled mele thief, I switch back to d/d and so on..but of course it’s much easier to keep using the same cookie cutter build and demand to win everytime than go out there and find a counter.

What are you? A thief? If you can’t manage d/d eles in mele range, switch to pistol or shortbow or call for help, here goes your “OP” shocking aura and frozen burst which works only at mele range and if the ele beats you regardless…well you simply got outplayed what’s your problem?

D/D bunker elems are the shatter mesmer’s worst nightmare.

Oh my god do i really have to repeat myself every time i answer ?

Skills alone are not OP i never talked about a single OP skill for crying out loud, i know my english is not that great but i don’t think i’m creating any confusion here, can you understand the meaning of too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it.

What are you? A thief? If you can’t manage d/d eles in mele range, switch to pistol or shortbow or call for help, here goes your “OP” shocking aura and frozen burst which works only at mele range and if the ele beats you regardless…well you simply got outplayed what’s your problem?

Dude you didn’t even freaking read, why am i even bothering answering to you ?
Why would you even try to participate to a discussion that is already way too angry in regards of what i try to explain, if all you do is answer randomly to my post while totally missing the point ?
I AM USING P/P
And did i ever say i can’t be outplayed or anything ? Don’t try to summarise my whole arguments into an ego matter, thank you, so much.

I guess i just need to l2p, in the end, there’s no possible discussion with the likes of you.

This is tiresome.

As i said earlier i think it’s too soon to develop on the subject, this will have to wait for the gimmick to get a bit more popular for people to really start questionning it.

Klassic.8057:

North American servers comprise of bandwagon morons, 2 months ago you would be lucky to see a elementalist in Spvp, now everybody and their mother plays one. what a shame.

+1
This is mainly the problem I see here. The community will likely focus their attention to eles right now because they are starting to come out in sPVP like mushrooms, most of them using D/D cantrip builds. And this I think was mainly due to daphoenix’s post in the forum about mastering the D/D ele. He was able to use his build to its full potential. I learned a lot from his guide.

When this same guy or another exceptional player discovers an amazing build that leans on becoming OP and shares it with everyone, and bandwagoning starts to move to a different meta, we will see the same threads like the BS thief OP, mind wrack shatter mesmer OP, etc.

I am eagerly waiting to find a good ele build using D/F, Sc/F without using cantrips which is equivalent to the performance of the current D/D cantrip build which is indeed quite strong in almost every aspect – mobility, survivability, DPS, and control – and is very powerful in the hands of a good player.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Klassic.8057:

North American servers comprise of bandwagon morons, 2 months ago you would be lucky to see a elementalist in Spvp, now everybody and their mother plays one. what a shame.

+1
This is mainly the problem I see here. The community will likely focus their attention to eles right now because they are starting to come out in sPVP like mushrooms, most of them using D/D cantrip builds. And this I think was mainly due to daphoenix’s post in the forum about mastering the D/D ele. He was able to use his build to its full potential. I learned a lot from his guide.

When this same guy or another exceptional player discovers an amazing build that leans on becoming OP and shares it with everyone, and bandwagoning starts to move to a different meta, we will see the same threads like the BS thief OP, mind wrack shatter mesmer OP, etc.

I am eagerly waiting to find a good ele build using D/F, Sc/F without using cantrips which is equivalent to the performance of the current D/D cantrip build which is indeed quite strong in almost every aspect – mobility, survivability, DPS, and control – and is very powerful in the hands of a good player.

No man…the current d/d ele meta is a direct consequence of the kitten balance present at the moment, professions like mesmer/thief/warrior can completely disable you for long periods of time while still having an innate defense which does not require any initial setting

Cantrip as multiple stun breakers?
-necromancer bunker= spectral armour+ spectral walk+necrotic traversal
-guardian bunker= “stand your ground”“save yourself”
-warrior= “shake it off” frenzy
-thief = shadow step +haste + infiltrator signet
-and more

Mobility?
- RTL= 1200 range / 320 dmg
- Rush= 1200 range / 698 dmg
- Infiltrator arrow= 900 range(teleport)
- and more

Control?

D/D got less control than scepter and staff, only on these two the skills are very clunky and difficult to land, when they gonna fix our traits and buff/change others…you guys will cry even louder

muscarine.5136:

Oh my god do i really have to repeat myself every time i answer ?

Skills alone are not OP i never talked about a single OP skill for crying out loud, i know my english is not that great but i don’t think i’m creating any confusion here, can you understand the meaning of too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it.

What are you? A thief? If you can’t manage d/d eles in mele range, switch to pistol or shortbow or call for help, here goes your “OP” shocking aura and frozen burst which works only at mele range and if the ele beats you regardless…well you simply got outplayed what’s your problem?

Dude you didn’t even freaking read, why am i even bothering answering to you ?
Why would you even try to participate to a discussion that is already way too angry in regards of what i try to explain, if all you do is answer randomly to my post while totally missing the point ?
I AM USING P/P
And did i ever say i can’t be outplayed or anything ? Don’t try to summarise my whole arguments into an ego matter, thank you, so much.

I guess i just need to l2p, in the end, there’s no possible discussion with the likes of you.

This is tiresome.

As i said earlier i think it’s too soon to develop on the subject, this will have to wait for the gimmick to get a bit more popular for people to really start questionning it.

Yeah dude, it’s a l2p issue, it took you long enough to realize it, go and make an ele, play it for few weeks and then come back here and try to spout the same non-sense like now

possante.8310:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJAoYhImmbyR4gjDAkHm4SJCFP0QRxM5A;ToAA0CnowxgjAHLOOck4MEZCB

power:1839
critic chance: 25% (is 45% because you have perma fury)
critic damage: 33%
toughness: 1485
almost 20k health

you have 3 BS, you have shocking aura every 20s, you have almost vigor up in combat, you have perma swiftness (no one can run from you) how this isnt OP?
with this build if you are good you are almost invencible and as soon you stack +250 power and change that weapon for another with sigil fire or +5%damage killing guys is easy

14.4K health
< 1500 tough

For a d/d ele this build is quite easy to kill, even with 3 cantrips due to low tough and HP. d/d is super squishy unless you build very tanky, in which case you don’t kill fast, you outlast.

muscarine.5136:

And on what you’d increase the CD?
Can’t you see that eles are forced to go 30 in Arcane to use their own mechanic? Show me another profession whose main mechanic become effective only after being treated,

Uh i’m not sure i understand, it’s the same for every class…

You’ve basically admitted that you have no idea how Elementalist works by this reply. Therefore you lost any right to post in our forum, thanks for your contribution, see ya on another class forums….

I hope you realise you’re actually throwing discredit at what you’re poorly trying to defend here.

You’re forced into arcanes ? oh bummer, thieves are forced into critical strikes for damage or trickery for conditions, when it’s not actually both :‘( But we still have one more than you do right :’(
Oh and, i didn’t see your moderator tag by the way, care to drop the little chiefling attitude ?
I didn’t see you posting anything relevant either, maybe you could start with it instead of trying to be a smart *

Arheundel… You’re so high on your horses you don’t even realise you flamed a fellow d/d user who shared his thoughts about a class he plays.

Anyway…
I’m still not seeing any counter argument to what i exposed, feel free to start trying to be constructive.

Skills alone are not OP i never talked about a single OP skill for crying out loud, i know my english is not that great but i don’t think i’m creating any confusion here, can you understand the meaning of too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it

Thief players >_< omg
Nerf greatsword elementalist……his hundred blades skill is too strong…

Third time you proved you have no idea of what you re talking….gratz

I’ll answer for last time…
Why so many D/D ele in pvp?
They are a counter to players of a certain OP skill called stealth…..

Less thieves = less D/D eles….

Note that almost only thieves complain about D/D ele….because they have a 50% (should be 100%) chance to make them pay for their mistakes…..before they can reset the battle.

Also previous staff players were forced to go D/D being overnerfed.

And i still think we are all losing time we could use to get better or maybe learn how professions works checking at least the wiki for few minutes…..

Or you can just check your forum were good players already posted how to face your counterclass.

Mostly because you never see even there a post like “i was killed by a D/D ele” but instead “i couldn t kill a D/D ele….i had to use stealth to flee after many minutes…”

Instead you can read any other class say “stealth let thieves reset battle whenever they want”……(hint And while you flee to reset your skills your opponent resets too but that is outrageous u.u for a thief" and that is how you wrote the absurdities i quoted…" you woulnd t even write them if you were really using pistols or a stun build…).

Oh right, i’m a noob OP stealth thief, and i lie about using P/P.

Care to entertain me more ?

Where is the part where you explain to me what’s wrong with me sayin too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it ?

I don’t know if it is OP in the top level of gaming, but in terms of average player skill it is the easiest to pick up and be “good” at.

muscarine.5136:

I hope you realise you’re actually throwing discredit at what you’re poorly trying to defend here.

You’re forced into arcanes ? oh bummer, thieves are forced into critical strikes for damage or trickery for conditions, when it’s not actually both :‘( But we still have one more than you do right :’(
Oh and, i didn’t see your moderator tag by the way, care to drop the little chiefling attitude ?

You are comparing apples with oranges here, buddy…. comparing the condition damage trait line necessity to the arcane necessity for our class mechanic. Try to think about your own arguments before you post, pretty please :-)
When the time, when the Thieves will be forced to reduce their Steal CD to be effective comes, then this argument will make sense.

Ohh, and you’re quite lucky that I’m not a moderator, really lucky…

It makes me sad that people are starting to call D/D ele OP. When I first rolled mine, eles were widely considered one of the weakest classes in the game, and that their only viable build was staff bunker. D/D was a rarity that was considered a barely usable novelty. Now, I run around and I see D/D eles everywhere, and almost all of them are terrible.

I’m probably one of the extremely few people who runs a solo D/D ele with a full suit of zerker’s armor. I’m not tanky. I’m not full glass cannon either, but burst classes CAN kill me virtually instantly. I rely on my mobility and skill to win vs. classes that can almost insta kill me or vs groups, not tankiness and healing.

Sadly, because bunker D/D is the fotm, and bunkers in general are overpowered in this game, I am quite likely going to get nerfed even though my build is strong, but fair. I just hope that when Anet nerfs bunker eles, the damage isn’t too bad for the rest of us.

Well all right, have fun with your 0/0/30/30/10 thief build i’m looking forward to hear from your results then, since nothing seems essential to the thief mechanic.

On a side note i still don’t see where the necessity of 30’ing arcane has anything to do with the issues i mentionned about d/d eles, which is sad because i’d be happy to learn, although it seems most of you are more busy trying to discredit me rather than contradict my arguments.

And thank you for the “warning” lots-of-patronizing-smileys.

dreztina

I just hope that when Anet nerfs bunker eles, the damage isn’t too bad for the rest of us.

And i would say, yes… yes, that would indeed be a good thing, a tweak to one of the department within whch this particular build excels as well as too many others.
We all fear the overnerf of course but if you followed the PvP design team’s stance in regards to nerfing, they stated they had more of a fine tweaking approche.

muscarine.5136:

Oh right, i’m a noob OP stealth thief, and i lie about using P/P.

Care to entertain me more ?

Where is the part where you explain to me what’s wrong with me sayin too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it ?

Simply:

-attunements rotation is ele downside design to compensate for having 20 skills…..
You say ele is OP because of low rotation CD.

-ele CD are the longest of any class

-ele n1 problem have always been lack of sinergy

defense is not superior to any class we simply have few more healings BUT that have to deal with attunement downside and at expenses of dmg.

pressure with/on a tanky build is non existent…..look at numbers….

You can burst only a full glasscannon and still it will take a lot to kill him (infact look at your forum how all thieves are able to escape…)….as a tank you won t be able to kill any decent tank
Can you stop now?

i could go on commenting any of your statements that are always kept vague on purpose just because its clear you ldon t know eles…but its a waste of time…

farewell..

p.S. thieves are complaining about bunker eles…
Other were complaining about staff ele…..i couldn t understand why, because i ignored the bug on evasive arcana at that time (i was using a cantrip balanced build)….that is no more now….

muscarine.5136:

Where is the part where you explain to me what’s wrong with me sayin too – much – synergie and access to too – much -pressure because of the association of defense, mobility and low rotation CD allowing for it ?

Simply due to the fact that what you refer to as “pressure” is actually on long cooldowns already. Like others have pointed out when we’re built to endure we cannot apply significant offensive pressure. When built to sustain we cannot apply defensive pressure. When built to burst we simply die.

What’s wrong with us telling you that your class (thieves) finally have a counter? You can’t always win and can’t always lose sometimes things result in a draw. If you want to blame anyone I’d start looking at the dev’s responsible for balancing and bug fixing since they are directly responsible for putting Elementalist’s in this position.

LordByron.8369:

Simply:

-attunements rotation is ele downside design to compensate for having 20 skills…..
You say ele is OP because of low rotation CD.

First of all i did not say elementalists are OP, i said it needed to be leveled in regards to expert playing, second, i do not see where the global attunement rotation slows one attunement’s rotation since you switch to another depending on circumstances (do i have to turtle or can i pressure), and you most likely switch your attunement because the main skills of the one you currently use is on cooldown.

On the contrary i would tend to believe that attunement switching is the ele’s upside against being left with nothing but refreshing CDs. Always something at hand.

-ele CD are the longest of any class

I am sorry but this is just arbitrary and by no means true. If you base your comment on the sole fact of fire grab, uh…

-ele n1 problem have always been lack of sinergy

Absolutely, and this particular d/d build revolves around no synergie at all…

defense is not superior to any class we simply have few more healings BUT that have to deal with attunement downside and at expenses of dmg.

You tend to forget that CC, mobility and pressure is part of the defensive process, and you lack none of those.

pressure with/on a tanky build is non existent…..look at numbers….

You can burst only a full glasscannon and still it will take a lot to kill him (infact look at your forum how all thieves are able to escape…)….as a tank you won t be able to kill any decent tank
Can you stop now?

Well yea you won’t kill a tank as a tank, that would kinda defeat the purpose of one’s ability to tank wouldn’t it ?
I would also recommend you to look at how your own class is also very capable of escaping, except you will get back into the fight way faster than thieves do, unless we are talking about p/d high survivability thieves builds which aren’t even the beginning of a threat to eles with their bleeding.

i could go on commenting any of your statements that are always kept vague on purpose just because its clear you ldon t know eles…but its a waste of time…

farewell..

I feel that i have been more than precise repeating my arguments dozen of times because most of you only read warning someone wants to hurt my class and don’t even bother consider my opinion, resorting to personnal attacks instead of actually help me learn since it seems i need to.

MarzAttack

Simply due to the fact that what you refer to as “pressure” is actually on long cooldowns already. Like others have pointed out when we’re built to endure we cannot apply significant offensive pressure. When built to sustain we cannot apply defensive pressure. When built to burst we simply die.

While i do agree that full burst eles die in a blink, they arent the actual issue.

I wouldn’t be as distinct toward you other examples, pressure doesn’t only apply by damage numbers on top of an opponent char, exhaustion is your actual best weapon, through CC, reactive defenses, rapid chains that forces evasion and so on.

Damage simply applies overtime and soon enough your opponent will have exhausted all his options while you won’t, thus forcing him into withdrawal or eventually die under the pressure.

muscarine.5136:

Well all right, have fun with your 0/0/30/30/10 thief build i’m looking forward to hear from your results then, since nothing seems essential to the thief mechanic.

On a side note i still don’t see where the necessity of 30’ing arcane has anything to do with the issues i mentionned about d/d eles, which is sad because i’d be happy to learn, although it seems most of you are more busy trying to discredit me rather than contradict my arguments.

Well, I suppose that you never played an Ele, because if you had played it, you would know the problem of attunement swapping CD and that forcing to go 20-30 points to arcane tree to compensate for it, which leaves you with 40-50 trait points for building (that the first drawback of this class, that renders a lot of theoretically good builds unusable).
A lot of Elementalist spells have HUGE CD’s, over 40 seconds or such, which any other proffesion don’t have and our auto-attacks and low CD abilities (I’m talking about weapon skills mainly) have significantly lower damage than equal abilities on other proffesions. I understand this, because we have 20 abilities, instead of 10 like the other proffesions. There is a “but” however, which is often overlooked, and guess what?
It is the attunement switching CD again, which is 5 seconds longer than weapon switching base CD. Count this together with the fact that every single attunement is oriented for some main purpose (water – support/healing, Earth – defensive/bleeds etc) and you will logically come to a conclusion, that something doesn’t fit here…
And that is the problem #3, the traits itself.
There is very little synergy between traits for the Elementalist proffesion (the little synergy we have are basically the builds which most of the Eles are running – D/D bunker/auramancer). So this makes some of the traitlines not worth the point investment, because the class is based on versatility, and that can be achieved only by reducing that 15sec switch CD to a minimum, and that makes the Arcana traitline much more attractive then f.e. the Fire traitline (which is basically only good as a passive bonus to power/cond. duration, the traits are very bad in there, especially when compared to other classes – for example Thief which I also play, so I know what I’m talking about).

I hope that I made this issue clear to you and maybe convinced you to actually try Elementalist to see this issues for your own.

Edit:
Also if you look at the traits for Ele, you will see that we don’t have much traits which are giving a flat bonuses (like +10% dmg against target with condition, looks familiar?), every line pretty much gives advantage to a certain attunement, that means the Eles are basically disadvantaged by theirs’ count of abilities. It’s like having 4 weapon sets with bigger CD’s and lower dmg abilities with every traitline supporting only one of them and the fifth traitline, which is kinda beneficial to all. Which one would you choose?

Yes Muscarine, we’re sick of our class being hurt by all the complaining which predated all the thief QQ by months starting with nerfs as far back as BWE2. Thieves have been nerfed dramatically yet are still pretty darn effective at what they do.

Since you know our class so intimately what would you like to have rebalanced specifically? And when you take away from something state exactly what you would give back to maintain the status quo please.

STRanger, as i stated before i don’t play eles, and while i understand this is an immediat disqualifiaction for some of you, i believe you can understand that field experience is not equal to nothing, like you don’t need to play a thief yourself to grasp how to counter a backstab burst or death blossom spam.

Now if you’re still willing to hear me despite this fact, i would argue that the 40s skills you mention are not more essential to you than a 50s shadowstep is for a sin (i did not take a higher number in order to qq fight).
Yes we have initiative, but you play a thief and you know it is an actual dynamic global CD for us and by no means a source of infinite pressure bypassing the rules of the cooldowns that apply for everyone.

The issue you mention about the lack of options for eles is indeed an important issue and i would of course be happy to see you guys get more options in the future, as much as i’m happy to hear pistols may get some love by the 14th.

The trait synergy is not exclusive to your class, for instance i for one find that putting initiative boosts under trickery, a line made fore DoTs, is a very awkward design decision especially toward pistols which dont require any initiative to play around bleeding stacks (although it’s true the extra headshots come in handy).

Now being not an expert in the matter i will simply acknowledge what you say, although this is more of an overall ele issue rather than this particular d/d build we’re throwing kitten at each others faces about.

MarzAttakz, I tried my very best to communicate on how i didnt think d/d eles weren’t 123 ezmod and i actually think it takes decent skills to run one properly (many bad eles dying so badly right now in spvp tend to confirm this fact), my concern comes from the fact that once masterized it goes a bit too much over the limit.
And i insist, i didn’t call you OP, i didn’t ask for an oblivionismal nerf, i said it needed to be tweaked.

My opinion would be to tone down either mobility (personnal swiftness at the very least, CC at best), either diminish the potential of the class once build for tanking to still apply exhausting pressure by increasing the base CD of offensive and defensive abilities, read me until the end please, while allowing for a player to trait those same CDS (for free along with minor traits would be balanced enough i think) in order to get better CDs on a chosen attunement than they are right now.

For example let’s take RTL

Currently you have a base CD of 15, if trait’ed down to 12

If we are to balance the way i suggest you would get for example a base CD of 25, if trait’ed down to 10. (or say 8 i really can’t say, some very useful skills like blurred frenzy are at 8, don’t put too much importance into the numbers, the point is to give a meaning and pros to specialization)

And go like this for every attunement.

Of course this is absolutely subject to disagreement especially since it may eventually dumb down the actual playstyle of eles revolving around very dynamic and reflexice atuunement switching which i understand can be really exciting.

I’m not pretending to bring every answer anyway, i mostly think it’s important that you also get feedback from the other side of the stick too, and i dare say i have some experience to share on the subject, which, if not absolutely clairvoyant still comes from actual facts on the field.

The name of the thread should say.. “Elementalists too hard to kill as a bunker?”.

Hard to kill in bunker mode? Yes.
The profession overpowered? No.
Other classes hard to kill in bunker mode? Yes.
Easy to survive an encounter with a bunker built elementalist? Yes.

As with all bunkers, if they are too hard to kill, move on, or summon your team.

muscarine.5136:

STRanger, as i stated before i don’t play eles, and while i understand this is an immediat disqualifiaction for some of you, i believe you can understand that field experience is not equal to nothing, like you don’t need to play a thief yourself to grasp how to counter a backstab burst or death blossom spam.

Now if you’re still willing to hear me despite this fact, i would argue that the 40s skills you mention are not more essential to you than a 50s shadowstep is for a sin (i did not take a higher number in order to qq fight).
Yes we have initiative, but you play a thief and you know it is an actual dynamic global CD for us and by no means a source of infinite pressure bypassing the rules of the cooldowns that apply for everyone.

The issue you mention about the lack of options for eles is indeed an important issue and i would of course be happy to see you guys get more options in the future, as much as i’m happy to hear pistols may get some love by the 14th.

The trait synergy is not exclusive to your class, for instance i for one find that putting initiative boosts under trickery, a line made fore DoTs, is a very awkward design decision especially toward pistols which dont require any initiative to play around bleeding stacks (although it’s true the extra headshots come in handy).

Now being not an expert in the matter i will simply acknowledge what you say, although this is more of an overall ele issue rather than this particular d/d build we’re throwing kitten at each others faces about.

A cannot disagree with this, there are much more issues with classes than those with Elementalists, of course. The Thief proffesion have it’s issues too.

That’s why I often repeat: “the issue #1 with the whole game are the bugs, be it the class mechanic ones or the skills/traits ones. when those are fixed (which is really the long-run), then the balance issues can be discussed/adressed.”
Simply put, the half-working-as-intended game cannot be balanced before it is fixed.

But according those CDs you mentioned, I meant the weapon skills mainly, not the utilities (like that shadowstep you’re mentioned). Eles have huge CDs on utilities too, like any other proffesion, but no class have as high CDs on weapon skills as the eles have.
The intetion in this is really clear (more skills, bigger CDs), but if the devs want this applied, the class should work as they intended first (versatility caster), which unfortunately Eles are only if they invest those 30 arcane points at this state….
This class dependency on attunement switching is so great, that the 15s CD is holding this purpose back big time.

However I feel your pain as a Thief, when everybody is complaining about quite impressive burst you can do and the culling/rendering issues (which are not Thiefs’ fault at all), even if a lot of players abuse this to their advantage constantly.
People just don’t see the downsides, only the strong sides of those builds and the videos everywhere are pretty much supporting this whining, even though those are cutted clips of awesomeness and don’t show the other side of the coin, when the player screwes up and end up owned hard….
OPness is kinda the matter of player, not the class imho.

In your example of RTL Muscarine what you’re not factoring into the time calculations are the attunement cooldowns too. So 15 seconds on the skill plus 15 seconds on attunement swap = 30 seconds in effect. We can trait it for 12+9 seconds = 21 seconds by spending 50 trait points (20 in air and 30 in water).

I won’t argue that we will be swapping to other attunements so the base attunement cooldown on Air isn’t such an issue but will point out why so many of us consider a minimum of 20 Arcane mandatory.

For them to do something as simple as tone down personal swiftness would require them to make major changes to multiple traits and skills.

Regarding our CC, in D/D we do have a number of skills for this purpose, however both auras are easily visible, don’t last particularly long and can be nullified by simply holding off on attacking. Our earth immobilise #3 has to be manually aimed, easily avoided and at times even outrun! Sure Updraft and Earthquake are pretty good being arguably pbaoe but Updraft has no damage component and gives swiftness which we already have in abundance (remove the swiftness give it a cripple or damage). Earthquake too does very little damage, applies no conditions and lasts for 2 seconds, most people with half a brain have enough time to get and dodge once then stroll out of Churning Earth which 9/10 times follows Earthquake hence cantrip ele’s needing lightning flash.

The bottom line is that our class has historically had too much taken away without receiving the appropriate boosts to balance the equation. Kudos to you for sticking to your argument though but you’re going to be met with harsh responses and hopefully some decent debate from those of us willing to look past prior nerfs.

Well the arcane dependency is sort of a mute point, i guess you guys would be ok too with better ewarding attunement specialization, which along the way would also require either less attunement switching (faster CDs on your favorite) or maybe a lowered CD on the attunement itself when you switch to another, instead of decreasing all attunement CDs ?

Honestly i think devs were hoping to get eles to be more versatile than they used to be in gw1 where you mostly had to stick to a single element, and it’s true attunement specialization past a certain point would defeat this purpose.

On the other hand it is a way to tone down what i think is an issue.

Other way being to cut a bit into the skills themselves (pressure for tanks, defense for damagers, glass canons will always be glass canons) which seems to be an issue with gw2 design since nerfing one build always end up nerfing some other less popular and less efficient ones to start with.

So yea in the end i guess what i see as a d/d issue is more of a consequence of the overall synergy issue within the whole class itself leading to this particular problem, still i believe something needs to be done to get it a bit more in line, and like i said before, same goes for some thieves, guardians and engies with high survivability builds, that still allows their users to put noticeable pressure (not talking about the bursty side of the wheel here which is a whole other matter, although it will need to be tweaked along those in order to avoid making one playstyle prevale over another)

As for the disheartening nerf circle, if we just talk about GW, i played my sin since faction was released on GW1 and despite the perpetual nerf and (somewhat) buff cycles i never got to quit it, even if it’s true melees had a hard time there, and sins especially once the whole shadowstep concept got kinda cut from the viable pvp builds. It was harder but still viable.
And i believe this particular d/d build needs an injection of harder (not by opposition with easy but in termes of challenging its owner while faced with different circumstances)

In the end i’m still confident with what will come and if you remember over 7 years, GW1 changed a kittening lot, there is no reason to be so frightened with changes over a game so young.

I´m actualy curious about what exactly is it you feel is not in line? All you´ve said is pretty vague synergy/pressure/etc.

What skill combinations exactly are too easy to fire rapidly? What defensive cycles allow for too much offense at the same time in your opinion?

It took ~4 months for some thread like this one to appear. I don’t think this has been said enough so I’ll repeat. In these 4 months, we’ve only seen quality of life improvements (fire hitboxes, RTL, etc.) and nerfs and nothing that really constitutes as a direct buff to D/D. It’s quite disheartening to suddenly see so many call for nerfs just because the eles have found something that works and would have worked just as well at launch. If it is so OP, why didn’t anyone call out D/D until now?

If the devs ever decide to nerf a build like this, please don’t do what you did to thieves. That is, don’t nerf and then not compensate somewhere else or nerf completely in the wrong areas. The bunker build is only so popular because everything else just doesn’t work well with how the attunement system turned out by requiring most players to constantly change attunements to be the most effective. Some posts have already touched on the reason why – the long cooldowns and specialized purposes in attunements with low synergy in traits.

Building any other way will make eles easy/free glory in pvp (I speak from a casual spvp perspective). Why isn’t a glass cannon ele as popular as some of the other notable glass cannons? Because an ele without their defenses is a dead ele. Thieves have stealth and high mobility as their defense. Mesmers don’t have the lowest base health and have illusions. Warriors are already quite buff by having heavy armor and high base health and don’t need to build fully defensively.

It’s been mentioned many times eles are pigeonholed into a bunker role (or at least into building around water and arcane). Why exactly is that? Eles need to build around cantrips/boons to survive because that is our form of damage mitigation. The ele has to survive so they can press a billion keys to do anything at all since we have 20 skills that are less effective with some on long cooldowns as opposed to 10. Since we wear light armor while having the lowest hp pool, we need to reduce the damage taken as much as possible and heal up damage we do take because we can’t block incoming damage very well and CC’s are on extremely long cooldowns (45s earthquake, 40s updraft). So we build around high defense (toughness + high protection uptime), low hp, and high healing power (with high regen uptime) – a healer’s ideal healing situation in many other mmorpgs. This seems to be a common complaint against eles where ‘they heal all the damage taken so easily’. Well if they can’t heal your damage, what do they have? Nothing because they’re already downed or dead. This is why the easiest way to take down an ele is to strip off boons.

tl; dr

D/D has hardly changed since launch. If Anet decides to give in (I have faith they won’t take this too seriously) and swings the nerfbat, make sure to consider these key issues that have already been discussed over and over: bad trait synergy and the lowest hp/defense without superior burst damage or other forms of damage mitigation.

rebalance attunement switching time to normal weaponswicht time. So 9sec basic =)

These suggestions are just bad.

We don’t want more traits that focus on a specific attunement. Our trait lines are filled with this as is, and they’re almost universally ignored and considered worthless. Attempting to add more shows basically zero understanding of how Elementalist currently works/is played.

Whether by design or not, a lot of current Elementalist playstyles revolve around constant attunement swapping, and this is especially true for D/D. This is exactly why high arcane is considered so necessary, and you cannot change this by saying “Oh increase the cooldowns and add some traits”. Your suggestion is basically a complete overhaul of how the Elementalist works, because the very purpose of constant attunement swapping is to take advantage of these shortish cooldowns in each attunement (while using the long ones as needed). Remove those, and you have completely changed the class’s playstyle.

This would be akin to me suggesting thief culling issues can be fixed by simply changing the revealed debuff from stealth to like 10-15 seconds and then giving thief some new traits to survive easier. Even if the class still works with those changes, it’s simply a completely different class from the one it was before, with consistent access to stealth.

Ok, it is seriously ridiculous to constantly read the notion “ele is OP in the right hands”.

Are you kidding me? You guys do realize there is this HUGE gap between elementalist right? There are a handful of good elementalist. And there are a TON of bad elementalist out there.

I gurantee the handful of elementalist that people are saying are OP because they killled you, there are hundreds more elementalist that you just rolled over without even noticing them.

You can’t nerf a class because a handful of players are really good at it. You will be completely destroying the class for majority of those who suck.

A players “playstyle or skill” doesn’t make a class OP. A class is OP when everybody and their mother is capable of rolling one and destroying others with little to no effort.

lol :

this is also quite tanky…

any other thief wants to complain about D/D?

LordByron.8369:

lol :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Zw8vNJVvg

this is also quite tanky…

any other thief wants to complain about D/D?

This depends on the Elementalists equipment and build, If he is full valkyrie, he can have those 18K+ HP without tanky spec, maybe some points to the water tree, but according to that backstab dmg, he has very probably basic toughness (916 I believe), So he is only another type of Glass cannon character, which traded precision on Equipment for Vitality, which is not such loss, because he can have permafury with Zephyr’s boon. Good try though

Edit: Also, this is WvW, so those numbers mean nothing, because of how much critdmg you can stack there….

LordByron.8369:

For those interested in my stats:
1653 – Toughness
2572 – Armor

Care to prove that? Just number listing doesn’t get you much belief in these forums (you know, every troll here has listed numbers – not saying that you are one of them though).

At the end, it’s unfortunately still WvW, the game cannot be balanced according to that, but if your stats are true, that’s quite a burst, surely. But I’m yet to perform this myself with my Thief, never managed to hit for that much, even the GC character… (but they died anyway, because of low HP).
I feel your pain though, my Elementalist has similar stats to yours and if this happened to me, I would be kinda p****d off too.

muscarine.5136:

I hope you realise you’re actually throwing discredit at what you’re poorly trying to defend here.

You’re forced into arcanes ? oh bummer, thieves are forced into critical strikes for damage or trickery for conditions, when it’s not actually both :‘( But we still have one more than you do right :’(
Oh and, i didn’t see your moderator tag by the way, care to drop the little chiefling attitude ?
I didn’t see you posting anything relevant either, maybe you could start with it instead of trying to be a smart *

Arheundel… You’re so high on your horses you don’t even realise you flamed a fellow d/d user who shared his thoughts about a class he plays.

Anyway…
I’m still not seeing any counter argument to what i exposed, feel free to start trying to be constructive.

Nah dude, if you look in my profile you’ll see that months ago I created a post asking for nerfs on the OP staff bunker ele, which was in that state because of the double dodge bug.

I know when something is truly OP, if my class or other I don’t care ..I will denounce it, but now just for the simple fact that you can easily recognize a newb d/d user and an expert user , clearly shows how contradictory are your claims.

Something is OP when anyone can start up as pro from having zero previous knowledge.

You don’t seem to realize that this profession was designed with synergy in mind, unfortunately this has been reflected only in the dagger/dagger set so far.

If they’d reduce the activation time and increase projectile speed of skills on scepter and staff, you’d see much more variety compared to now.

Staff and scepter are plagued by skills whose animation is far too obvious and take too long to take effect, making those weapons extremely redudant against any player who know the basics of the game( like not sitting in the red circle)

Simply short answer is “Every class in right hands will look OP to those who are not as skillful as their opponents”.

Given the truth of at least 75% of Eles right now are D/D and in their 0/10/0/30/30 builds, most think that now that they’re all specced up, they’re good, but in reality, most just die as fast as other classes because it is not only about what spec you run, but about how you utilize your skills.

I, myself, run with 0/10/20/30/10 (never ran Evasive Arcana) and have no problems against any classes – yet again with 2800+ armor, thieves/guardians/mesmers can annoy the hell out of me. And those necros with Condition swaps from Boons..

Again, any class will shine in right hands – tho I don’t really want to say that for BS Thieves too much since all it takes is 3 buttons. (I hope anybody can execute a simple combo >.>)

P.S: Request for Ele’s Elite to be Kill Shot so I can do 12-18k dmg.

last match we were playing FA and a DD ele was getting his friend to announce in zone chat (Yak) which camps he would be hitting. Sure enough he would show up, run a zerg around the map, down a couple of lowbies and generally cause a ruckus.

While he was no doubt a master of his class I can’t think of any other game that lets people get away with this kind of stuff.