Guild Wars 2

I have been sitting here for 10 minutes thinking of what to say. I am completely floored. The only change I would consider meta changing is the water overload heal increase. Traits untouched. Shouts untouched.

Rather than burn duration you should increase the might duration on fire overload to 15s.

You guys didn’t take our suggestions seriously and it really makes me sad that I bothered giving you guys my input.

Trolling isnt allowed for a companie ……
Unless we’re on april fool … wait did i fall in some chronomancer vortex ???

EDIT:
OK let’s say once again why tmepest sucks in its current design

Nothing help you to stay in one attunement. Not a single trait, not a single skill, etc.
From there it’s already dead

Now add:
poor trait (special mention to minors that should be merged in ONE trait and 2 new should be created)
Triple cost, 5sec charge-up, infinite casting time, x2 cd
for now barely worth spell. Fire and air still makes you loose overall dps (cause you’re locked out of them), water is still suicide button (20sec without healing ripple, cleansing wave or what ever is …… well obvious), earth got the weakest buff and is still very underwhelming (where is pulse bleed ? for instance only)

FrownyClown.8402:

Rather than burn duration you should increase the might duration on fire overload to 15s.

Yeah, this.

A general problem with the overloads is that the cast time is so long, and on top of that it shuts you out from the attunement for so long, that it’s just better to keep swapping attunements instead, you just gain more from the swapping than from overloading the each attunement every 20-25+ sec.

Making changes that aren’t numbers is extremely expensive, not just in dollars, but in time, so changes are easiest when they can be implemented without changing animations or interactions between abilities. Work with the available structure, and your suggestions can be more easily implemented.

For example, while the Rebound could possibly be easily fixed by adding a button to anyone affected by it that lets them trigger it, this could create some terrible complications with UI that would make it likely cost-prohibitive. So, a better solution might be to change it to affecting only elite skills, so that you know it’s at least going to be used for what should be a decent skill.

Ohoni.6057:

Take a look at the changes made to Reaper and Chronomancer and then try to say this again with a straight face.

The Reaper and Chronomancer changes were numbers tweaks too. And besides, the Tempest was in a really great place in the last build, so the changes needed were more minimal.

Except we’ve been talking about these exact problems since Warhorn was datamined. We have good offhand options and adding one more doesn’t help. Hell, the Warhorn is the BEST part of the elite spec right now and they just made it better. Does it surpass our expectations? No, it’s exactly what most of us expected!

Eles will not be getting a mainhand weapon anytime soon. Just stop beating that dead horse.

Wow just wow….
Both reaper and chrono, even rev and DH HAD ACTUAL TRAIT CHANGES…their “elite spec” changed WAY more than just numbers.

That’s what tempest changes were. 100% number tweaks. Not even a sniff at the elite, the overload mechanic itself, the traits, NOTHING.

Tempest were in a great spot last build??? you literally are the first person on the ele forums that have suggested they are in a “GREAT” spot…. There was nothing positive about tempest to say, as you can see from the feedback on the forums….

TauTauRa.9348:

Joke post? It took longer to write up these notes? Nothing fundamental about the Tempest has changed, no changes to horrible traits, and no changes to Elite. This is silly compared to the feedback that Reaper and Chronomancer got.

Different devs.

Take a look at the Reaper and Chronomancer BWE changes: well written and adressing the major points of feedback from the community, with a large number of changes. Heh, the Chronomancer one even mentions why they did NOT change some things. Most of the posters in those topics see the changes as good things and feel like they have been listened.

Meanwhile, the Tempest and Dragonhunter… Their dev has not posted, someone else posted the changes. Said changes are small and mostly tweak numbers, while both specializations need massive reworks. Players feel like they haven’t been listened to.

It’s obvious Chronomancer & Reaper have the same dev, who’s different from the Tempest and Dragonhunter dev.

Really don’t understand why, even in the face of overwhelming and constant negative feedback, Anet doesn’t do something useful.

The numbers aren’t the issue.

Tempest doesn’t create a new role for the Elementalist. It’s a sub-par version of existing roles we already have.

…. I thought karl was the dev?

This does nothing for PvE. Nothing is going to compel a staff or dagger ele to put the only attunements that have good autoattack sustained damage on cooldown, fire and air.

If you put fire or air overload down in PvE, you murder your damage since earth and water autoattacks and skills hit like wet toilet paper.

A mere 20-30% buff isn’t going to change that.

And then there’s the traits.

And then there’s the healing power scaling with the water overload, as if anyone otehr than celestial elementalists ever used healing power as it’s a terrible stat.

Just merge healing power with vitality or something. You keep pushing healing power as a solution when nobody in their right mind in PvE wants to come near that stat as it costs the user far too much offensive power for the small and infrequent healing returns.

A 20-30% buff also will not overcome the damage loss in not autoattacking/putting down a lava font for the long time it takes to channel these skills.

I’ve been supporting tempest since the live stream and instill really like it, but I cant believe close to none of the feedback was addressed. I appreciate the warhorn buffs in truly do, and I personally think the shouts for the most part are in a good place, but the traits make no sense and need to be addressed. Even with my white knight armor shining I can’t see myself putting more time into tempest than reaper or chrono. I just cant

Azure.8670:

…. I thought karl was the dev?

He is. Rumor on Twitch chat and Gamescom chatter has it he’s on vacation.

I thought the Necro’s were supposed to be the biggest whiners? Mature up ele’s! This is just the first iteration after the first BWE. More will come. So stay adult like and give good constructive feedback. Don’t make me get a 2 year old to show you all how to behave! lol

Cheers for the post, Irenio.

Glad to know you’re aware of the other pieces of feedback we have for it.

Every balance change since the beginning of time is numbers even if it’s dressed up as a QOL. I see people saying change shouts or elite which will still be numbers. It’s either going to do more damage=numbers, longer condition duraition=numbers, last longer=numbers etc…

The number one problem I saw in the feedback thread was nobody found a reason to use overloads at all if ever so they seemed to be dismissed in most of the feedback. They boosted them which would be the place to start. The elite still needs to be touched, but I don’t see that being a big problem.

By boosting them as they posted here then it’s either going to be worth it to trade damage by overloading or it’s not. No trait is going to really change that unless they give us invincibility during overload which won’t happen so this is a start; even 50 stacks of stability during overload won’t make it worth it based on their previous iteration since we would still take damage.

This is a decent start

After reading all this constructive feedback, I feel encouraged to post mine.

I think about the tempest who plays with the forces of nature, but to achieve this she might have to find the balance between the elements. The concept art of the Tempest on the shore gave me these ideas.

So how would I imagine the
Overloads:
First, overloads are something big that comes with a price. But what if instead of locking you out of the Attument you have to earn your overload by using opposite elements.
So:
-if you are camping in Fire by using Fire Skills, you charge your Water Overload. If you are in Water by using Water Skills, you charge your Fire Overload.
-Same for Air and Earh.

Fire and Air Overload are location targeted, because they are offensive Overloads, but for the range they may make you immobile while casting it, so still there is a downside. The extra range provides more flexibility and more interworking with other weapons, not just for the dagger.

Water and Earth Overload would remain as it is. They are meant to support and help friendlies around.

The overload charging values of different skills would be different, do longer CDs skill may give a huge boost, but they are not as frequently available.
Also the Opposite element charging would promote more attunement swapping in PVE, I Hope. Also if you just attune to water because its overload is up, you are still locked out of fire for the standard duration. For example you swap to water, pop your overload and every water skill, which maybe enough to Charge your fire overload, you still cant use it. You might think to change to earth, charge up your Air, and after swapping to Air, fire your Air Overload, then back to Fire, and fire your Fire overload as well.

Numerical values for me aren’t really matter. I know they can make of break games, but right now the concept is what we are talking about.

Traits:
I agree with most poeple that all minor traits actually should be in one minor.
Rest of the minors should open up possibilites and interworking with the rest of the elmentalist abilities. The same for some of Majors.

Some example trait ideas:
-Glyph of storm has slightly longer duration or larger area
-Mist Form receives properties based on your current Attunement. In fire you leave fire field behind or pulsating fireburst. In Air you become something like the current ball of lightning, but you are free to move in any direction. In Earth you blind and cripple everyone you touch.
-Lightning Hammer may last longer and has more charge or its skills has faster recharge
-Shout Trait!
-Arcane Shield after exploding provide all Auras. for a short duration
-Your blast finishers have an offensive component as well (where it has offensive, would have a defensive):
fire – flame burst
lightning – blind
ice – vulnerability
light – weakness
and so on…
-Your whirl finishers would pulsate defensive boons.

Maybe the above ideas are strong, but keep in mind, that you will need to swap out one of your cantrip to utilize those.

There are lot of possiblities, but I think it covers what I wanted to say, what I would love to see.

Also a friendly note to others:
Speaking of experience: getting personal and start name and shame on developers is a sure way to alienate them. Which will lead exactly what you are afraid of. In the end they can feel no matter what they do, it is not good.

So the reason why tempest is bad is the fact people don’t have time for the class? How come that people doing on reaper, chronomancer and rev have the time? And how come you thought that ‘’overloads were well recieved’’ then? People do not have time to read the feedback either?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

You claim to “listen” a lot but can barely show it. What’s so time constraining about looking in the forum, reading suggestive posts, and commenting “I’ll note these changes. Can anyone argue for or against implementing these changes? <insert player proposed changes>”.

And CLEARLY you ARE dismissing our feedback by not mentioning ANYTHING particular about this feedback. Many have said in the past two hours that the trait need work. Yet, there si no mention that the traits are being looked at. You can’t use the WH, Overload, or Shouts without the trait line, so why is the basis being overlooked?

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

I appreciate that everyone is super busy, but there are also a number of changes that could have gone a long way for the next BWE, that presumably would have required minimal development effort.

For example:

Changes that would almost certainly require very little development effort:
1. Adding stability break-bar to all overloads
2. Change Rebound to 50% reduction

Could either of these wind up to be too powerful? Possibly. But for a BWE, why not try it? These changes may as well be introduced sooner rather than later. I’m sure there are a handful of quick fixes that could have gone a long way.

The Great Al.2546:

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

Is it too late to make a few minor tweaks that could go a long way, for the next BWE?

For example:

Changes that would almost certainly require very little development effort:
1. Adding stability break-bar to all overloads
2. Change Rebound to 50% reduction

Could either of these wind up to be too powerful? Possibly. But for a BWE, why not try it? These changes may as well be introduced sooner rather than later. I’m sure there are a handful of quick fixes that could have gone a long way.

Rebound needs to give alacrity for a set duration. I don’t see why we wouldn’t have access to at lease 1 new boon or condi with our new elite skill when the mesmer has access to new stuff with his elite, utilities and weapon skill.

Tempest were in a great spot last build??? you literally are the first person on the ele forums that have suggested they are in a “GREAT” spot…. There was nothing positive about tempest to say, as you can see from the feedback on the forums….

Yes, the Tempest forums were a hotbed of salt, that doesn’t mean that they were actually right. Those that cry loudest are not necessarily those most deserving of attention. A lot of you didn’t like the Tempest, and are very loud about that, but a lot of us liked the Tempest just fine, and some bonus damage is a very welcome change. I’d like to see some animation tweaks, and a complete overhaul of the Elite by the time the expansion launches, but I had zero expectations that they would fix everything by the next patch.

Remember, the Tempest is allowed to be HORRIBLE next patch, for all it matters. It’s just beta, nothing is on the line yet. All that matters is the state that it’s in by launch. The BWE2 changes they’ve announced are not final changes for any class, they are “let’s see how it handles with these simple changes we can make,” and if it turns out to be not enough, they can do something else. For the record, if I could, I would be running my BWE Tempest on live at the movement, it was a lot of fun.

For the record, here are some things you should really give up on right away:

• Warhorn as the weapon: I’m not a huge fan either, don’t intend to use it, but it is happening. There is no chance of them changing to another weapon for HoT, and even less than zero chance of them releasing a mainhand for Eles, but keep in mind that they’ve indicated more Elite specs will come over time, so you’ll get whatever weapon you wanted eventually.

• Overloads as a concept: Overloads are happening. They will do mostly what they have been doing. They might reduce the cooldowns on them a bit, or buff their effects, but this is the mechanic, like it or not. Yes, they will interfere with your standard attunement rotations, and this is by design. You are meant to rotate slower and more deliberately than usual, count on that remaining. All that is likely to change are things that make this slower rotation more worth it.

This does nothing for PvE. Nothing is going to compel a staff or dagger ele to put the only attunements that have good autoattack sustained damage on cooldown, fire and air.

If you put fire or air overload down in PvE, you murder your damage since earth and water autoattacks and skills hit like wet toilet paper.

This might be true if Overloading kicked you out of attunements, but it doesn’t. A solid Tempest rotation is to be in fire, burn your cooldowns, Overload, burn your short cooldowns, go to Air, burn your cooldowns, Overload, burn your short cooldowns, and then right back to Fire, which has come off its long CD by that point. You can throw in the other two whenever they’re helpful. Honestly I don’t see where people are having trouble with this.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

This is pretty key information that people would want to hear before thinking all their feedback wasn’t heard…
When something isn’t addressed and there’s not even a word on why, then people will be upset. Mostly in reference to Elite / traits.

I honestly get the impression that this is all down to corporate double speak. Sounds like a dev (whoever that may be) has been on “holiday” (read in to that what you will) and has not properly handed over the work to another dev.

In order to at least do something for us, another dev has been drafted in to do triage, and make whatever quick and easy changes could be made without completely stepping all over the work done by the main Tempest developer. Management would have thought this sufficient to appease the angry forum bear (http://i.imgflip.com/poht2.jpg) and have sadly miscalculated.

I say give the dev who is returning from holiday or whoever is now making the Tempest changes a couple of weeks and hope that they can pull something out of the bag before things get too close to crunch.

Beyond that there is nothing we can really do or say at this point to get our point across without going full screaming gamerkid on the situation.

TL:DR, cut Irenio some slack. At least he/she/Asura is talking to us.

Seriously people are still QQing when ele is currently the best class in the game and they even buffed Tempest that was basically already fine. Oh come on, Dragonhunter can’t even aim (yes, longbow AA is so slow it can be dodged just walking).

They should nerf Ele before doing tweaks on Tempest, seriously. Ele and Mesmer.

Kidel.2057:

Seriously people are still QQing when ele is currently the best class in the game and they even buffed Tempest that was basically already fine. Oh come on, Dragonhunter can’t even aim (yes, longbow AA is so slow it can be dodged just walking).

They should nerf Ele before doing tweaks on Tempest, seriously. Ele and Mesmer.

The ele is a patch away from being average. Its current strength lies in how powerful burn is. Take way burn and it goes down.

also being the current “best” is a worthless statement since a few patches ago the engineer was the best class. Let’s see whether or not this is true, now.

Ele has always been in the top 3 since launch basically.
It is no exception with elite spec, with tempest and chronomancer being the only good elite specs in the last BW. Well, chronomancer was even more OP then mesmer is at the moment. that perma stealth lol.

Kidel.2057:

Ele has always been in the top 3 since launch basically.
It is no exception with elite spec, with tempest and chronomancer being the only good elite specs in the last BW. Well, chronomancer was even more OP then mesmer is at the moment. that perma stealth lol.

Nah we went a year being out of the meta.

Kidel.2057:

Seriously people are still QQing when ele is currently the best class in the game and they even buffed Tempest that was basically already fine. Oh come on, Dragonhunter can’t even aim (yes, longbow AA is so slow it can be dodged just walking).

They should nerf Ele before doing tweaks on Tempest, seriously. Ele and Mesmer.

Ele does indeed have a role to play in every game mode, and plays those roles extremely well. I also agree with you that Ele could use a few small nerfs to bring it in line, at least in SPvP. I say small because it’s very possible that with knee-jerk nerfs, Eles will fall back into joke-tier in PvP. Or are you forgetting that Eles were at the bottom of the ladder for a year+?

The reason people are complaining is because Tempest does not, in their minds, provide a NEW and/or distinct enough role for Ele to play. Whether or not Ele is “the best class in the game” has NOTHING to do with the fact that Tempest isn’t living up the proposed goal (opening up new playstyles.) Not to mention, there are basic issues like there not being a trait that reduces shout CD times. So people definitely have the right to complain. You might think Tempest “was basically already fine”; plenty of other people disagree with you. THAT is why they are complaining.

You’ve completely missed the point about WHY people are “QQing.”

Kidel.2057:

Seriously people are still QQing when ele is currently the best class in the game and they even buffed Tempest that was basically already fine. Oh come on, Dragonhunter can’t even aim (yes, longbow AA is so slow it can be dodged just walking).

They should nerf Ele before doing tweaks on Tempest, seriously. Ele and Mesmer.

I can only speak for myself but I’m worried about the fact that Ele is OP in some aspects of the game (and Ele is my main…). It’s not how balance should look like… and what is even more important – this game’s balance shows tendency to fall into extremes of either nerfing already useless skills or buffing already overpowered ones… (Frost Bow I see you).
Back on topic…
Rebound is a waste of slot. Prove me wrong.

Caveat: I haven’t prepurchased HoT yet. That said, I’m not exaggerating when I say that Tempest is 90% of the reason I’m even considering getting HoT, and if I don’t like Tempest, I’m not going to bother with the expansion.

I’d like to provide some feedback on Overloads, based on my observations of streams and other peoples’ thoughts:

The charge-up time on Overloads needs to go.

The whole point of the Ele is to seamlessly chain combos together, with Attunement cooldowns serving as one drawback. Having them charge up ruins their combo potential, and reduces the Ele’s ability to react immediately. In particular, you have to pretty much be psychic in order to benefit from the Water overload heal, since you have to switch to Water and wait for 5 seconds, predicting a hit.

The reason people are complaining is because Tempest does not, in their minds, provide a NEW and/or distinct enough role for Ele to play. Whether or not Ele is “the best class in the game” has NOTHING to do with the fact that Tempest isn’t living up the proposed goal (opening up new playstyles.)

What playstyle did people want? Personally, I find the D/D playstyle to be a lot of fun, and the Tempest brought a bunch of cool new functions to that. I hear that the Warhorn can be used to bring more support to structured squad-play, but that isn’t really my style, and if it doesn’t live up to that role, then they can tweak some numbers until it does.

I much prefer a “more and better” elite spec like Tempest over a “let’s turn the Guardian into a Ranger” spec like Dragon Hunter.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

bless you

Traits are great already, I don’t understand why people are complaing. They’re not supposed to be strong – overloads should fill that role.

Good to see overload buffs, they needed that. I think overload air still needs more damage (a 60% increase instead of that 30% increase would be needed to break oven with just using fire skills on staff), though I’m happy about the range buff.

Agreeing a lot with Ohoni, especially in how you run an overload rotation.

Not changing the numbers on the elite skill is the right thing – even if the numbers were bumped up to viability it wouldn’t be a fun and ele-style skill, so better to keep it as if it doesn’t exist (though I’m hoping there’s big rework of it going on in the shadows)

@Glenstorm: you switch to water because you need heals (for yourself or others), and the weapon skills there have that. If the healing weapon skills didn’t do enough, you use the overload as well.

Kidel.2057:

Ele has always been in the top 3 since launch basically.
It is no exception with elite spec, with tempest and chronomancer being the only good elite specs in the last BW. Well, chronomancer was even more OP then mesmer is at the moment. that perma stealth lol.

Makes me laugh more.

Tempest is the most hated elite spec, and the one that had most complains about as the worst elite spec out there.

Chronomancer, no one can blame I think, it was just kitten well made.

Well… this is overwhelmingly disappointing…

Though the changes listed are good ones, they don’t even come close to fixing some of the fundamentally flawed issues with the Tempest:

1. Overloading attuments is not worth it; the 5 second warm up and the channel are too much for what you get (even with the above mentioned buffs).
2. Rebound is probably the worst elite skill in GW2 currently. Need I say more?

I sincerely hope that you guys come through with some more substance on the next round. I understand the time constraints but if you are being resource blocked, maybe resources should be assigned better, or new ones added. Sounds like a Production mistake. I sincerely hope the now illuminated constraints on design resources does not adversely effect the end product just to meet the 2015 deadline.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

Hey everyone.

Not all feedback could be addressed this iteration in fair part due to time constraints on key members of our design team. That does not mean we are dismissing your feedback or that all the issues you’ve raised up to this point will go unchanged before expansion release.

This is a small set of changes from the first beta weekend event; we will continue to iterate on the specialization skills and mechanics and shall be listening for your constructive feedback.

We will be reviewing the Tempest traits along with casttimes vs. effects on overloads among several other aspects of the elite specialization.

Not sure if this is the biggest joke ever.

First we get NO changes to the core issues but just some scraps thrown out way with the damage buffs and now the answer is “Sorry but the development team doesn’t have time for the class.”

Great, so they didn’t have time to make a teaser video, didn’t have time to fix the core issues of the elite specialisations nor do they have time to talk with the community on what they are trying to do to fix HUGE issues with the class.

Why should we think they will ever have time for the class after all of this?

These changes mean kitten to the next BWE it will not improve or change the feedback on the slightest.

This is pure bullkitten.

Ohoni.6057:

The reason people are complaining is because Tempest does not, in their minds, provide a NEW and/or distinct enough role for Ele to play. Whether or not Ele is “the best class in the game” has NOTHING to do with the fact that Tempest isn’t living up the proposed goal (opening up new playstyles.)

What playstyle did people want? Personally, I find the D/D playstyle to be a lot of fun, and the Tempest brought a bunch of cool new functions to that. I hear that the Warhorn can be used to bring more support to structured squad-play, but that isn’t really my style, and if it doesn’t live up to that role, then they can tweak some numbers until it does.

I much prefer a “more and better” elite spec like Tempest over a “let’s turn the Guardian into a Ranger” spec like Dragon Hunter.

From what I see, ANet seems to be pushing a frontline support/damage role with the Tempest. Personally, I’m actually on board with that idea, since D/D can’t really deal well on the frontlines, and Thieves do the get in-burst-get out thing better.

As they stand, I’m happy with the Warhorn skills (especially so with the buffs) and I look forward to using the shouts, but I just don’t see how Overloads (the meat of the spec) help us do frontline combat better. They don’t seem to have enough of a payoff for their long channels (easily interrupted, outside the Earth overload, and opportunity cost: aren’t you better off casting something else?) Also, I don’t like that overloads are canceled when swapping attunements; I see the reason for it, but it feels crappy. However, these issues are easily fixed with minor tweaks, so I’m optimistic.

-I don’t like Rebound. It’s all well and good to have an Elite that rewards coordinated play, but let’s face it, such play is only seen in very limited instances (speedclears, TPvP.) It would have been okay if our other Elites were more “tide-turning” in general play, but they’re not.

-We need a shout CD reduction trait, probably rolled into Tempestuous Aria.

-Aura traits are now too spread out.

Ok, now I’m really curious. What did people expect them to do about Rebound this week?

Seriously. I think they’re aware that it’s not great, even as much as I enjoyed the class as a whole I swapped out of it fairly quickly, so hopefully they do intend to do something about it, but what would you expect them to do? Tweak some of the numbers on it? That wouldn’t have pleased anyone, because most people seem to agree that the basic premise of the skill does not work for the class. So likely to please anyone they need to invent an entirely new Elite, with animations and some new power mechanic that would likely please people. That takes a lot of work. I would expect them to keep their heads down for 2-3 months before they’d have anything worth showing us on something like that. You could argue that they could brainstorm with us about the basic ideas they have in mind, but they’ve never done that before so it’s not something I would expect.

So yeah, they will hopefully overhaul that skill, and ideally they would let us know that they are at least working on that, but it’s extremely unreasonable to expect anything significant this week, and expect that in BWE2, and maybe BWE3 you will be stuck with Rebound, just swap it to something you like better until they get around to fixing it. At least it’s not like Revenant where if the Elite is horrible, you’re still forced to slot it if you like the rest of the spec. You can actually run a Tempest with no warhorn, no Shouts, and no Rebound if you really want to.

Again, it’s just beta, it’s not their job to make Tempest everything you want it to be by BWE2, it’s their job to at least hopefully get it that way by launch. If they launch HoT without fixing the major concerns, then you have every right to throw a kitten-fit, but not a moment before.

@Ohoni

It is their job to do changes to the class so that by the next weekend we have an improved version on the core issues.

These little changes they did do not address any of the core issues of the elite specialisation and will provide no meaningful change in the feedback of the next BWE.

So, essentially, they took longer to do nothing!

Beta is when you have to make the biggest changes, you need to improve, try crazy ideas, try several options. Baby step changes is when you got a reasonable product that is out and you don’t want to completely wreck the balance.

But what can we expect when our dev doesn’t give a kitten about the class to dedicate some time to it.

One way to make the shouts more viable is to make them apply an aura by default. Currently all eles in wvw/pvp run cantrips (even bunkier specs). To make shouts compete with them will require major buffs.

A lot of my guild mates tried Tempest and said they really enjoyed it. Maybe it’s a learn to play issue.

Irenio CalmonHuang.2048:

The concepts behind overloading an element were pretty well received

This is how we know tempest is doomed. Rather than admit the fact that they made any sort of mistake, Anet has decided to pretend that everything is just fine and that adding damage will make this spec useful.

Tempest vs Chronomancer:

Tempest (1) doesn’t offer new boons or conditions like alacrity, float and slow, (2) overloads do not improve our base class mechanic like Continuum Split/Shift does (it should decrease our attunement recharge, not increase it) and (3) it doesn’t integrate with scepter and staff (and we don’t have weapon swap by the way).

(4) ELITES

Gravity Well: Create a powerful well that warps space in an area, damaging foes and granting stability to allies. When it expires, the well floats enemies caught in it.

—> kittening nice

Rebound: worse elite ever

I understand Anet you guys didn’t have time to finish Tempest for the next beta, but for the love of our class please make it work in a manner that it is comparable to the improvements Chronomancer bring to the mesmer class.

Stark.1350:

A lot of my guild mates tried Tempest and said they really enjoyed it. Maybe it’s a learn to play issue.

I enjoyed it too, but that doesn’t mean it’s competitive.

Yeah… Can we make Rebound like… comparibly to 24S cooldown, give 5 seconds of quickness AND MORE, with awesome trait synergy? Yeah No? Ok…

It’s supposed to be the short cooldown trait, and for it’s effect it’s should have a 30 second or less cool down and be instant, that could at least be interesting.

So what classes are you guys swapping to? I’m thinking Thief or maybe Mesmer. Those seem like classes that properly reward you for high risk maneuvers and have the tools to pull them off

I’ve begun thinking of Tempest Overloads as analogous to a haymaker in a fight.

In a simple brawl between regular folk, yes you will on occasion luck out and land a haymaker. It is a very high risk, high reward punch. It is also a very imperfect punch.

In a competitive environment, against experienced opponents, a haymaker is suicide. It is a very rare occasion when an experienced fighter will ever even consider throwing the haymaker.

Valentinus.3412:

In a competitive environment, against experienced opponents, a haymaker is suicide. It is a very rare occasion when an experienced fighter will ever even consider throwing the haymaker.

Sort of how rarely anyone uses Churning Earth any more.

Let’s increase the crap water overload by 400%. 400% of crap is still crap when the base coefficients were so low to begin with.

It is their job to do changes to the class so that by the next weekend we have an improved version on the core issues.

No, it’s totally not.

If they made ZERO changes to the class by BWE2, that would still be totally them doing their job, because you aren’t paying for the Tempest to be good in beta, if you’re paying at all, it’s for the Tempest to be good when HoT launches, and if that means they don’t change a single thing between now and the last beta event, but then they nail it on the day HoT launches, then they’ve done 100% of their job on the Tempest.

Now, I’m not saying that I expect that, they likely will shift Tempest constantly over beta, but it’s unreasonable to expect significant improvements with every single update, because they are not necessarily moving every class forward in lockstep. It’s perfectly reasonable for them to spend more time on one class for a month or two and less time on another, and then shift focus to a different class, if that’s a work flow that is most efficient for them. It’s not like in a live game where players are stuck with a broken class in the meantime.

If you don’t like where the Tempest is next BWE, do something else with your time, try one of the other classes or stick with your main on Live. Four of the classes don’t even have the option of playing their elite specs yet, so count your blessings.