Guild Wars 2

BlackBeard.2873:

Jski.6180:

BlackBeard.2873:

Lyger.5429:

I agree the elite is lacking, to make the elite better it should be changed to something like next non-elite skill or overload used instantly recharges. Because the elite effects both the ele and allies it would work very well. I wonder if the skill works with icebow 4 >:)

Shaves a whole 5 seconds off that recharge! So ELITE!

Or you use it for something like AoE and stop being bad at GW2 and the ele class.

Yea buddy!! Just got stunned?? It’s ok, don’t stunbreak…just use that 3/4s cast ability after you get up (if still alive), then use your stunbreak so it is on a 15s less cast time!! That is the pinnacle of skill!

Nah you’re doing it wrong. you have to preemptively predict multiple allies about to use their ultis ~second early. While baiting a stun so that you can shave the CD of your stunbreak. Then when you get stunned and somehow mindkitten your allies to not cast anything else before their ulti like their own stun breaks or stability or anything like that. Oh and for all that work its only 25% something you can get on most abilities with a trait…

Seriously It needs to be instant, and maybe grant haste for 2-3 seconds. Increasing the CDR to 50% for your own ability. Then ulti + a hasted overcharge could actually become viable every 60s

Bryzy.2719:

Just had a look at the Tempest and christ does that look like a boring kitten effort by Anet lmao… I’ve been poised ready to insta-80 an ele based on its elite spec, but not going to bother now.

On the other hand, I’ve always mained a Ranger so if it turns out Druid is just as sucky then I guess I won’t be the one with the last laugh :’)

I agree with this guy. And there’s NOTHING elitist about complaining about a class you kittening PAID FOR with your MONEY they ought to give you good service but when its trash, people have every right to say so because they paid GOOD MONEY for that service.

Anet drops the ball more times than ought to be allowed. Although, I am starting to see less and less and less and less people defend their decisions, especially with tempest.

Remedy.3429

I want everyone claiming this elite spec “sucks” or “is completely useless” or “that its making them not even want to buy the expansion” to swear an oath that they will never play it. We are having a live stream today, and I bet it’s going to showcase some traits that are going to make this spec a lot better than you think it is. Mark my words, Tempest will return dagger/x to PvE.

Just figured I’d correct you and get this one in early. This elite Specialisation doesn’t suck.

It blows.

BlackBeard.2873:

Lyger.5429:

I agree the elite is lacking, to make the elite better it should be changed to something like next non-elite skill or overload used instantly recharges. Because the elite effects both the ele and allies it would work very well. I wonder if the skill works with icebow 4 >:)

Shaves a whole 5 seconds off that recharge! So ELITE!

I was talking about the suggested version of the elite lol. 2 Ice storms in a row would rock!

Lyger.5429:

I agree the elite is lacking, to make the elite better it should be changed to something like next non-elite skill or overload used instantly recharges. Because the elite effects both the ele and allies it would work very well. I wonder if the skill works with icebow 4 >:)

Personally think the skill should just give the targets a breakbar for its duration while they wait for their next skill use which is then reduced. It’d synergize with the spec (since that’s the only way to get this elite) and has a couple uses. Like, just pop Rebound when you know CC is coming and then escape while you’re immune to CC. There is, of course, the synergy this has with the overloads in that using this elite gives you a far better chance of pulling it off in the thick of everything. Whatever other possibilities this might allow by granting a breakbar to allies, insert here!

Leo G.4501:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

My first impression is to agree on the following:

I like a lot of these ideas. I don’t think all of them have to be implemented to tune the spec up but quite a few would do wonders to really make the tempest shine. The change for Latent Stamina too, particularly.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

~“Rebound!” should ALSO apply 5 seconds of Alacrity to those affected by the shout. again, fitting the theme of boon-share party support

Perhaps. But I honestly just wish they’d boost the elite some more, like make it just cast an Overload (the charge up and all) but not lock you into the cast time (letting you do other stuff) on top of its base effect.

Forgotten Legend.9281:

~Earthen Proxy could ALSO grant 3s retaliation when applying protection

Or perhaps just protection you apply reflects some damage (kind of like the War trait that grants healing power with might).

Forgotten Legend.9281:

~the new GM minor could be Arcane Singularity: completing an overload channel grants a blast finisher.

Lastly, I think it should just apply finishers dependent on the skill so the fire tornado becomes a whirl, water bubble becomes a leap, earth becomes a blast and air I guess a blast as well. Honestly, I just think blast finishers as a whole need to be balanced again and other combos beefed up to make them desirable (although leaps are already good).

thanks for commenting.

one thing i forgot, is that the 3 overloads already provide combos of some form: fire offers whirl finisher, air offers lightning field, and earth already offers blast finisher.

i think i’ll edit my earlier post to simply add a damage burst at the end of the channel instead of a blast finisher….

the trait would then look like: when you complete an overload channel, blast the area for an additional 4k damage (not a blast finisher)

I have an idea in my head of what the attack should have been, but it’d be VERY particle heavy, which let’s be honest, the ele already his particle heavy. This attack would have been so kitten though!

Meteor Shower + Ice Bow 4 + Glyph of Storms(Lightning) + Tornado(or Sandstorm)

Let it pump out some flame stacks, rejuv, blind, and bleeding.

the elite should have defined the spec…instead it makes us Chronomancer 2.0 with shouts

this specialization is just very underwhelming, it just feels like an advanced elementalist like someone said above, rather than a “violent storm of elements”

I don’t even understand what archetype tempest is suppose to fill with most of its skills. The skills seems like just a hodgepodge of skills thrown together.

Reaper gets a scythe, whirls, and soul chilling screams
Chronomancer controls time with every ability
Dragonhunter makes constructs of light

What is the tempest suppose to do call storms right?
For me very few of the tempest abilities fill this niche and I think the elite skill is the largest offender here.

My wish for the elite…

something close to this:

They should have called it Hailstorm, summoning a big aoe that drops ice-shards & lightning-strikes all over the place. It would inflict some seconds of chill & knockdown for each ice-shard that hits & vulnerability / blindness for each lightning strike that hits. even if the duration were just 10 seconds, and the ice shards & lightnings were just randomly places, it would have been a worthwhile elite, fitting the theme of the class & its name.

And if it must be a arcane-themed shout, why not going the guardians approach with renewed focus, and instantly reset all atonement cd’s? Would offer a lot more skilled play, if you could plan a quick return in more than just air-attunement for decent combos. Even could keep its name then.

As a Mesmer main, soon to be Chronomancer main, I find it highly insulting that the Tempest elite pretty much dabbles on the Borderline of Chronomancer time manipulation.

The Tempest deserves something more “Storm Oriented”, even if it has to be a support based storm themed spell. But to give them an elite that has NOTHING to do with their theme as a elite specialization is just slapping elementalist mains in the face and outright unfair to them. Not to mention how their elite works.

ANET Iam saying this because I care, and I’m sure many other elementalist mains would agree, that having a different elite altogether would be the right choice.

Tempest has nothing to do with time quickness and slow is more about time control lower cd is more of a mages trick.

Warhorn looks like more fun than existing off-hands, like dual heals and the fire boon sharing. But then I play nearly only with staff (I like support and don’t like attunement hopping), not sure it’s goes a long way enough to be original, like it still has a fire field in fire and an interrupt in air.

None of the utility slot shouts are support Flash-freeze and the heal look nice, and I like how auras tie to shouts. The elite… umm.

I hope overloads will contibute to attunement camping, but that 5 second before use is too low for it… I hope for a longer time required to be in attunement but lower recharge on the overload itself.

In general I like the direction but don’t think they went nearly far enough.

Don’t worry your Well of Recall UTILITY is much more powerful than the Elementalist ELITE skill and it has a much lower cooldown. Nothing to fear here Chronomancers won’t be replaced by eles

Seriously, you can have it; none of us want another trash tier elite that doesn’t even fit our class theme.

OneKlicKill.4285:

Seriously, you can have it; none of us want another trash tier elite that doesn’t even fit our class theme.

This.

That elite is subpar. I won’t say it’s complete garbage, but it’s nowhere near elite-status.

The cast time makes it impractical to use with our big OH S*** buttons like AoE, MF, and LF, and unless you are running with a very skilled and coordinated group and are really lucky to have just the right circumstances, the group support functionality of the elite is going to be largely wasted. If people don’t know you are about to pop Rebound, or if they’re optimal ability is already on cooldown, or if they accidentally use some random unimportant weapon skill, then the whole thing is wasted. There is way too much potential for user error, and the reward is not enough to outweigh the risk. ANet tried to make a high-risk-high-reward elite for tempest, but let’s face it, they failed.

Hopefully ANet realizes their mistake and redesigns the elite before it goes live. Hopefully they don’t just modify some of the numbers to make more viable, because they need to just completely scrap it and start over.

ANet, normally I hate it when game devs appeal to all the QQ’ers, but this ability is the exception. Please listen to your players and go back to the drawing board with this one.

I’m no game designer, but I have played Elementalist for quite a long time and it kinda saddened me that the Tempest isn’t really the change of gameplay that I was expecting. What I, and I assume many other Elementalists, actually want is something new to add to our gameplay; something we can’t do on base Elementalist. While that’s a little difficult to do on a Jack of all Trades, there’s still a lot of stuff we have no access to. Here’s some ideas and feel free to add your own.

Overloads:
By far the most important thing that needs to be changed. This is our new mechanic and it really needs to be something worthwhile. You say we shouldn’t be spamming our Overloads, but in their current state I wouldn’t want to use them in any direct fight at all.
I don’t mind the cast time or the range so much IF, and only if, their effects are extremely powerful for the risk I’m putting myself in(Long cast time, melee range, sitting in an attunement, AND increasing my Attunement CD to a gigantic 20s).
What they should do is something that attunement is normally incapable of doing, or doing it in a more powerful manner.

Fire Overload:
- Now Pulses AoE Vigor; Increases Synergy with our Adept trait and allows you to quickly cancel into a Dodge if needed.
- When the cast ends, the remaining Fire Tornado also applies Torment very quickly; allowing the Tempest to finish the Overload should be very punishing.

Water Overload:
- This skill now sends out waves with every Pulse
- This skill now applies AoE Vulnerability, Chills, and actual damage per Pulse; it shouldn’t out-damage Air and Fire, but should do enough that they wont mess with you and gives you more of a reason to stay in Water. Since it has the smallest cast time, it should have decently high damage per pulse compared to the other Overloads, but loses out on number of hits. Water is generally too passive damage-wise and this synergizes with our Damage traits in Water to give you a reason to stay in Water.
- Healing is slightly increased

Air Overload:
- This skill now applies Blind instead of Vulnerability, but less than half the amount of application(I.E. if it applies 20 stacks of Vuln, it only applies Blind less than 10 times during the whole cast….much less than that even)
- Increase the damage; This skill should not be doing Auto-Attack levels of damage in Marauder gear per pulse with this range and risk. It should get a hefty increase in damage to justify this and Fresh Air builds should be rewarded for being able to pull off multiple Overloads.
- This skill should also Strip Boons at the same rate as the Blind application.

Earth Overload:
- This skill now also pulses Bleeds
- The final blast applies AoE Torment and/or a final large stack of Bleeds

A little crazy maybe, but I think they have to be to be viable. They go totally against many of our traits, so they have to be worth it.

Warhorn Skills:
I actually don’t have many issues with these, but there are certain things that could be changed to be far more interesting and useful.

Warhorn Skills:
- Heat Sync is a little too much of a Mesmer-type skill; how about making it a small AoE Heal/Cleanse/Burn ala Cleansing Fire? Make it Heal for ~1k and Cleanse 1 Condition while applying a VERY small Burn.
My thought was to give Fire more sustain so you’re not forced to switch into Water constantly. If this is a little too weird or crazy, then just leave it as is.

- Water Globe should apply some damage and Vulnerability so an Enemy doesn’t stand in the Water field I shot at him and force me out. Again, it should do somewhat decent damage.
- Reduce Cooldown to ~40s.

- Lightning Orb should maybe also send the Elementalist backwards a decent length, about Burning Speed distance maybe
- Reduce Range to 900, but increase the radius to 360

- Sand Squall should be a Blast Finisher
- Remove boon duration increase and make it apply AoE Bleeds; As you blow on the Horn you cause rock spikes to shoot out from the ground beneath all enemies in the range of the attack, possibly applying Cripple too

CONTINUED IN NEXT POST

Shouts:
- “Wash the Pain Away!” should Heal for more(~4k) and apply a Light Aura.
- “Shock and Aftershock!” should be changed to have a Blast Finisher.
- “Eye of the Storm!” should apply a Shocking Aura as well to be more in-theme with the others.
- “Flash-Freeze!” should also apply some Vulnerability and/or more damage
- “Rebound” needs to be changed to be something Storm-based; maybe make it this huge storm consisting of all 4 elements that knocks back all enemies in an AoE and applies a small Burn, Chill, Cripple, and Vulnerability
- Alternatively, make “Rebound” reduce Cooldowns by 50% and make it apply an attunement-based Aura.

Traits:
- Hardy Conduit should apply 5s of Protection to be more in-line with Speedy Conduit.

- Latent Stamina rewards attunment swapping, not camping; change it to apply Vigor when activating an Overload and increase the Endurance gain to 20 or 25.
- Unstable Conduit should apply the Aura when the Overload starts, not when it ends.
- Unstable Conduit should apply an AoE Aura, not just to yourself.

- Tempestuous Aria should decrease Shout Cooldowns by 20%(In which case, leave their base Cooldowns as is)
- Earthen Proxy should instead apply an AoE Aegis while Overloading(Only when you start to cast)
- Harmonious Conduit should also allow you to Overload earlier(I.E. if it takes you 5 seconds to be able to Overload, this trait makes it 3s)

- Imbued Melodies cause all your Warhorn skills to have longer-lasting AoEs(2s longer and stacks with Persisting Flames) and be 10% stronger overall.
- Lucid Singularity now makes all your Overloads apply added Conditions upon Completion:

• Fire applies Weakness
• Water applies Poison
• Air applies Confusion
• Earth applies Torment

-Elemental Bastion’s Heal also applies to yourself and the Aura applied depends on your attunement.
- Elemental Bastion’s Health Threshold is removed; the ICD is more than enough.

Some of these changes might be kinda ridiculously strong(or weak), but I’m just throwing some ideas; particularly the extra conditions and making the attunements do something slightly different(Boon Stripping, Damage in Water, Sustain in Fire, Better Condi in Earth).

SIIIGH, will we never get kittenuable elite besides elemental glyph? hell even that sucks major kitten comparing to the elites of other classes

I would have very much preferred a storm based elite to be honest, like a skill similar to an arcane overload or something.

That elite is a huge let down. For a the price of the expansion don’t tell me we will be stuck with that elite for another 2 years. Warhorn I can live with, but that elite is so disappointing…

Adrian Guardian.9480:

Warhorn looks like more fun than existing off-hands, like dual heals and the fire boon sharing. But then I play nearly only with staff (I like support and don’t like attunement hopping), not sure it’s goes a long way enough to be original, like it still has a fire field in fire and an interrupt in air.

None of the utility slot shouts are support Flash-freeze and the heal look nice, and I like how auras tie to shouts. The elite… umm.

I hope overloads will contibute to attunement camping, but that 5 second before use is too low for it… I hope for a longer time required to be in attunement but lower recharge on the overload itself.

In general I like the direction but don’t think they went nearly far enough.

To me the range on Warhorn is just bad. The ele is a range class, we rolled it to play wizard-type of gameplay, not “magical-melee-warrior with no armor”. Now we finally get a pull but its on a melee weapon… Like when are we supposed to use his in WvW? We don’t even have weapon swap and staff will always be better.

That pull skill on warhorn would have been better as an air overcharge. And the boonshare would have been better as a shout. And the elite, like seriously?

The global design and viability of the overcharge/shouts/warhorn system feels off. But the elite is the super low point.

1- Make some skills on the Warhorn 1200 range and ground target-able
2- Scrap the elite skill and start over
3- Make it so that Overcharge doesn’t prevent other skill usage

Xillllix.3485:

1- Make some skills on the Warhorn 1200 range and ground target-able
2- Scrap the elite skill and start over
3- Make it so that Overcharge doesn’t prevent other skill usage

+1 to these

The three most important issues in my opinion for Tempest, closely followed by the strength of the Overcharge effects. Those also need to be buffed significantly for the extreme cast time they take and high probability of being interrupted.

What I’d change from traits:

—You now have to wait 3 seconds to get an overload instead of 5.

—15s attunement lockdown is now base. Harmonious Conduit redisigned. It now gives 2 seconds of quickness after finishing an Overload (nice reward to get that Overload off).
Afterthought: Or it gives 3 stacks of might when an overload is finished or during the channels (if you have to interrupt your might stacking rotation, might as well get some might in return to compensate!).

—Speedy Conduit minor trait now provides Super Speed (instead of swiftness) as long as the channel lasts, if the channel stops or gets interrupted, you lose the buff (eles already have tons of swiftness, it kind of overlaps, this would also provide much needed mobility to Warhorn).

—Earth Overload no longer has a breakbar. Lucid Singularity, in addition to it’s current effects, gives 1 stack of stability during an Overload channel.
Or Earth gets to keep the breakbar, and only Air, Fire and Water recieve the stability stack.
I don’t know if giving all the attunements a breakbar would be too strong or not.

—All Overload skill numbers adjusted accondingly to be worth the cast.

What I’d change from Warhorn skills:

—Wildfire CD reduced to 30s. Number of pulses reduced to 6.

—Lightning Orb redisigned. Launch a fast traveling orb of lightning that pierces foes. You can teleport to your current orb location, in doing so you release a barrage or damaging lightning bolts. Each bolt applies 1 stack of vulnerability.
Or easier alternative to change it: The orb stays as it is, it just moves way faster and now gives you the option to teleport to it.

—Sand Squall is now a blast finisher.

^Post heavily edited.

Get rid of the double penalty ontop of the redic cast-times. I.e. pick one of:
1. You have to camp the attunement for 5s (even increase the number) to unlock. You could even make this more interesting, and have overloads be something you need to build up stacks in an attunement by attacking while these stacks slowly dissipate.
2. You have a long CD on the attunement after casting.

Even if the overloads didn’t require sitting in an attunement for 5s, I doubt I would cast them as-is.

If they keep 1, then the overloads don’t need to be incredibly powerful as the risk isn’t insanely high if the channel doesn’t complete.

If they keep 2, overloads need to have seriously improved effects when they finish casting.

Individual overloads:
- Earth overload: what good does having a blast at the end of this overload do? Am I supposed to call out to people “hey, give me a field in 5s so I can blast that sucker!” This overload would be awesome if it was just a pulsing blast. That would probably be OP, but would be super-cool.
- Water overload: This is basically just a bad ether renewal. This should also pulse chill, or act as a water-field for your team-mates to blast.

Traits:
These need to have a little bit more critical thinking applied.
- For instance, Aura on overload makes no sense. Auras are defensive, give me the aura the second I start overloading (this would also help them complete). Gaining an aura 5s after needing it is completely worthless.

Jski.6180:

Tempest has nothing to do with time quickness and slow is more about time control lower cd is more of a mages trick.

Actually, Chronomancers get access to a unique effect, called Alacrity. Alacrity is an effect unique to mesmers specialized as chronomancers which reduces skill recharge. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Alacrity

So Tempest elite is border line on the Chronomancer’s skill recharge rate specialty. Which needs to change because its not a ’Mage’s Trick’. Its dealing with time manipulation, by reducing a skills cooldown, which Chronomacers specialize in, and Tempest should not. Tempest should have a Storm Based Elite.

Both elementalists and mesmers work in the arcane.

Mesmer is a master of illusions and reality manipulation, control, now chronomancy. Elementalist work is still based in the elements and the raw ether energy that is arcana.

Not much change there, elementalists as tempests are simply going to go deeper. Elementalists have always had a handle in arcana, ether energy and control of it.

Elementalists and mesmers work it to different ends. Rebound is a fine skill for elementalists, lore wise.

CETheLucid.3964:

Both elementalists and mesmers work in the arcane.

Mesmer is a master of illusions and reality manipulation, control, now chronomancy. Elementalist work is still based in the elements and the raw ether energy that is arcana.

Not much change there, elementalists as tempests are simply going to go deeper. Elementalists have always had a handle in arcana, ether energy and control of it.

Elementalists and mesmers work it to different ends. Rebound is a fine skill for elementalists, lore wise.

But this is a ‘Tempest’ specialization we are dealing with. While I understand where you are coming from in terms of it being “fine”, lore wise for an “Elementalist”, its just that the elite skill “Rebound” seems very “Lack-Luster” for a Tempest style spec. When I think of a Tempest, I think of raging storms and pushing the elements to their limits. And “Rebound” does not come across as a good fit for a tempest elite. Maybe Rebound will be a good fit for another future spec for an Elementalist, but certainly not for a “Tempest” specialization. The theme just doesn’t fit in my eyes.

Purecura.1795:

CETheLucid.3964:

Both elementalists and mesmers work in the arcane.

Mesmer is a master of illusions and reality manipulation, control, now chronomancy. Elementalist work is still based in the elements and the raw ether energy that is arcana.

Not much change there, elementalists as tempests are simply going to go deeper. Elementalists have always had a handle in arcana, ether energy and control of it.

Elementalists and mesmers work it to different ends. Rebound is a fine skill for elementalists, lore wise.

But this is a ‘Tempest’ specialization we are dealing with. While I understand where you are coming from in terms of it being “fine”, lore wise for an “Elementalist”, its just that the elite skill “Rebound” seems very “Lack-Luster” for a Tempest style spec. When I think of a Tempest, I think of raging storms and pushing the elements to their limits. And “Rebound” does not come across as a good fit for a tempest elite. Maybe Rebound will be a good fit for another future spec for an Elementalist, but certainly not for a “Tempest” specialization. The theme just doesn’t fit in my eyes.

And I respect your opinion. We see differently you and I.

Being “In” or “Out” of theme doesn’t change the fact that its current state is really bad.
Propose
Instant cast
Breakstun
2 seconds of haste
50% reduc on your next ability
pick 2-3 if all seem too OP for an elite…

OneKlicKill.4285:

Being “In” or “Out” of theme doesn’t change the fact that its current state is really bad.
Propose
Instant cast
Breakstun
2 seconds of haste
50% reduc on your next ability
pick 2-3 if all seem too OP for an elite…

I’d go for all four. Since it’s a shout, it also needs to affect everyone else.

from the multiple problems, the elite has got to be the worst, needs serious attention… they are trying to take the support mentality too far… seriously, 25% skill reduction for team? stun break for team that requires friggin voice chat to be any useful and by useful i mean still bad

OneKlicKill.4285:

Being “In” or “Out” of theme doesn’t change the fact that its current state is really bad.
Propose
Instant cast
Breakstun
2 seconds of haste
50% reduc on your next ability
pick 2-3 if all seem too OP for an elite…

I would also add something that tries to prevent it accidentally being wasted. Perhaps make it only affect abilities with a cooldown greater than x or something of that nature. If I blow Rebound and a nearby warrior ally is still channeling 100B, I don’t want to waste my elite knocking 2-3s off that CD when he was actually planning to use the reduction for one of his much more useful abilities.

This elite forces us to make sure every single person affected is aware of the situation, not doing anything else, has their powerful abilities ready to go, and won’t need to activate a different ability right after we finish our cast. The micromanagement needed to make this elite useful is crazy high, and the reward for a perfectly coordinated use of the elite is incredibly small considering the risks.

It’s simply subpar.

While I don’t find it insulting. I do think from a lore perspective time manipulation was never an Elementalist thing. And since the shout it almost universally hated it probably should be changed.

I don’t know if the people in the live show are just incapable of killing chieftain or what is happening. Even if tempest is a support spec there are ways to build an ele to do damage regardless of spec. The fight with chieftain took way too long in comparison to the other specs.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t know if the people in the live show are just incapable of killing chieftain or what is happening. Even if tempest is a support spec there are ways to build an ele to do damage regardless of spec. The fight with chieftain took way too long in comparison to the other specs.

It was interesting watching the person who is in charge of making the elite profession struggling with a beast I can kill eyes closed on staff or d/d ele. Hopefully it was just a bad day and the weapon is actually usable in a real battle context.

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t know if the people in the live show are just incapable of killing chieftain or what is happening. Even if tempest is a support spec there are ways to build an ele to do damage regardless of spec. The fight with chieftain took way too long in comparison to the other specs.

Are you referring to the POI fights? I think those are a great example of why Tempest is such a let down and just how lackluster and underpowered it will be. It takes him 40+ seconds to kill chieftain…and he gets kicked out of two of his overcharges in the first fight! That alone should be a giant red flag that the mechanic is terrible.

Now go watch the dragonhunter fight, another elite spec that the community seem to to bemoan… he kills chieftain in 9-10 seconds and doesn’t even get hit. standing in one place mind you, karl had to run around on the ele like a madman.

Tempest had some great potential, but to me it feels like they dropped the ball every possible way that they could have with this spec.

It could actually synergize well with mesmer/chronomancer so why feel insulted?

bloodravn.3640:

Daniel Handler.4816:

I don’t know if the people in the live show are just incapable of killing chieftain or what is happening. Even if tempest is a support spec there are ways to build an ele to do damage regardless of spec. The fight with chieftain took way too long in comparison to the other specs.

Are you referring to the POI fights? I think those are a great example of why Tempest is such a let down and just how lackluster and underpowered it will be. It takes him 40+ seconds to kill chieftain…and he gets kicked out of two of his overcharges in the first fight! That alone should be a giant red flag that the mechanic is terrible.

Now go watch the dragonhunter fight, another elite spec that the community seem to to bemoan… he kills chieftain in 9-10 seconds and doesn’t even get hit. standing in one place mind you, karl had to run around on the ele like a madman.

Tempest had some great potential, but to me it feels like they dropped the ball every possible way that they could have with this spec.

The elite alone makes me regret pre-ordering the expansion. Having seen it I would have held back and looked around for other options. Want more proff of how crappy that elite is? Karl doesn’t even use it in his fights, not even at the beginning,

Elite Specialisation are supposed to open a new way of play for the class.
Dragon hunter open ranged gameplay for the guardian, and provide some CC. The class was weak in both things.
Chronomancer gives mobility and support to Mesmer
…

What is Tempest about ?
Obviously support (Aoe cleanse + heal on Water, tons of vuln on Air, AOE root on Earth, Warhorn clearly support designed).

But ele is already one of the best support class and even has a weapon made for it: Staff

Lets imagine you want to make a more melee-ish support ele. I can see the point but DD and DF provide good support, and aurashare is melee-support.

So from the very beggining, Tempest is not a good idea as a first elite specialisation cause it do not open new path of play for the class (everyone asked for a burst spec, cause the ele do not have a reliable one)

.

Now the Tempest mecanic

The idea: Beeing able to unleash a very powerfull spell for a huge trade-off

First: The overload arent that powerfull.

Fire is very weak (the damage are way to low)
Water is weak, 2-3cleanse and 2Kaoe heal is not worth casting for the trade off.
Air is fine, good damage, and tons of vuln
Earth i s a bit weak, AOE root is nice, but not when the duration is so low. The breakbar do not make up for the trade off (it only allow it to be used in wvw as impact skill)

Now the setting:
You have to wait 5sec to use your “big spell”
What does it means: i wont be able to use those “big spell” reactively. I got condi overload (lets say i got hit by signet of spite), i swap to water, i have to wait 5sec to use my super cleansing healing skill ? Is it worth mentionning i’m already dead ?
I’m a DD cataclyst, i want to use my Air overcharge to deal huge damage! Well i’ll have to wait 5sec to inflict burst … in 5sec the opponent probably got a new dodge-roll, or a stun. Since there is nothing you really want to dodge and cancel by stunning in air you just keep everything and negate the Air overcharge. Even warrior dont give you such time to prepare yourself to react to their burst (F1 skills (just in case ^^))
I want to use my earth overload as a stability ? i cant cause i’ll have to wait 5sec ….

I also have to camp my attunement, meaning i cant use my other attunements to react to my opponent, and even worse: i’m forced to use ele’s AA …. do i need to talk about ele’s AA ?

So Ele, the squishiest class, is given a mecanics that prevent you to react ? …..
The gameplay of elementalist isthe most active and reactive one, its sad that dev do not follow this though

Last:
The trade off
20cd on attunement is the biggest tradeoff in the entire game. As i said, ele are squishy, and their survivability comes from powerfull trait like Healing ripple, cleansing water and Elemental attunement. To make use of this powerfull trait, you have to rotate though all your attunement as fast as you can (while reacting as much as possible to your ennemy). With such a huge trade off you just destroy your own survivability. Pressing Water overcharge is pressing the suicide button: how is ele supposed to survive 20sec without heal and cleanse ???

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Sum up:
Mecanics with settup hard to reach, huge trade off, but no real gain.

Shouts:
They feel super bad

-Healing one is ok, a bit weak to me, but i can see its use.
-Air one is weak: BK for allies is not a good idea. What will happen 99% of time: i’ll get stunned, i’ll use my BK and not wait for my mate ele to BK for me. Just cause you don’t have the time to tell your mates you’re going to BK them (unless its a F1 hammer maybe ^^)
-Fire is the worst! it has NO damage! One burning stack ???
And contrary to what Karl said: it do NOT synergize with blinding ashe!!! O_o
Tip for bros: blinding ashe has a global cd !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! … !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Earth is the only on i fell strong, the damage is good, and the root is nice. but the CD is kinda huge. I feel like it could be a nice elite as it is (it can be game changing and have a huge cd)
-Water one: tipical freeze ele spell: low duration, huge cd … => weak (the frost aura do not make up for that)
-Elite: They make it weak cause its AOE, but its the same than for Air one: you can’t really tell your freind when you’ll want to use it
I only see 3use to the elite one: reduce empower’s cd in wvw (but require one melee ele in each melee group …. no way this happens ^^), cancer-party: reduce moa’s cd, pre-might stack in pve (not really huge).

In the end, elite will be slotted cause infinitely stronger than what we currently have but still a bit weak. Earth one might be a choice a the 3rd utility. But the huge buff to cantrip given by Tempest trait line, it probably wont be taken.

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Warhorn:
Very good. All the skills are nice. The fact that they’re a straight line make them useable in wvw.
But i dont think it can really replace anything that is currently meta
it wont in wvw and i’m sure of it. It provides only cc, the prot and the boon duration are not really needed in the melee train. You give no stability (well you can double the stacks so maybe … :/ ). You have no dispell. The moving water field is nice tho.
But staff provide cc, water field, and damage. Melee warhorn ele, will provide the same, but without damage …
Have to mention that overcharge are (on paper) very good for a melee train ele:Impact in earth overcharge, you got your breakbar and you AOE root at the arrival. Air one dish out huge damage. Water during empowers.
But ele’s survivability in the melee train is low, and using all your cd this way, make your survivability from low to almost null.

Trait:

as usual, half of them can be thrown to the trash, and some of them are super stronk!

Minor ones: swiftness and prot on overcharge … a gentle way to say: "hey guys, we give you a potential substitute to arcana <3 "
But when the prot duration dont even last the overcharge …. its kinda funny how weak it is.

Major:
-Gale Song: super weak, no need to say more

-Latent Stamina: OP as kitten the synergy with Soothing disruption make cantrip even stronger …. sad for the diversity.

-Unstable Conduit: nice for an aurashare, but i still would take latent stamina

-Tempestuous Aria : a middle finger made to ele where is the cdr ??? Hope it gets added soon.

-Earthen Proxy: Strong sad that all prot sources are in arcana and earth, not huge build diversity option, you will always see Tempest with one of this 2lines

-Harmonious Conduit: nice if you plan to go 000111 (water arcana tempest) and use overload (cause this build (000111) can be use without using overload mecanics), since ,at least for now, cdr from arcana works on overload, this trat bring it to a nice cd (~13sec)

-Imbued Melodies : same arguments than Air shout: BK for mates is a bad idea

-Lucid Singularity : Weak, hoelbrak + earth cdr trait, good reduction to this control (immunity if using the OP food in wvw)

-Elemental Bastion OP OP OP! The OPness sensor got broken! :o
001101 aurashare build are now insane. 10sec (for mates, only 5 for you) frost aura on 30sec cd, every aura heals :o

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In the end:
The overload mecanics is badly designed, no sane ele will ever use it.
The warhorn is very nice, but sadly too much oriented for wvw where it wont be meta (DD aurashare and stab-share never made it, no reason for warhorn aurashare ele to make it)
Utilities are weak
Trait are somway nice: it opens 2builds (and no more)

001101 (earth water tempest) aurashare build. any melee weapon set up, hoelbrak rune, cele
000111 (water arcana tempest) (aurashare or not, depend on how much cleanse your team need). This build replace the tanky 00111 by providing a tleast as much tankyness, and more support (a lot more if running aurashare)

Both those build are good in pvp and wvw (roaming) and can be played WITHOUT the kittened overload mecanic

Some people talk about 010101 (air water tempest), it’s not viable, you have no damage mitigation (aka no prot), you’ll get OS by every single powerbuild. Sure the damage from lightning rod is nice with war horn, but you wont OS anything while dying in 1sec.

serenke.4806:

It could actually synergize well with mesmer/chronomancer so why feel insulted?

Yes, it could synergize well Chronomancer’s Alacrity effect. But my issue is the Theme more than the actual effect of the skill. Which is why the title of my post complains that Tempest are not Chronomancers.

There are other post complaining about the actual effect of the skill and how its implemented, this is not that post. The issue ( Like I’ve been stating ) is that the effect of Rebound is very similar to the signature effect Chronomancers grant themselves and other players. That effect is Alacrity which is exclusive to Chronomancers, due to their theme as Time Manipulation Mages. Tempest spec, should focus on storm theme spells, like their F1-F4 skills, and even their utility spells. Rebound ruins the theme, regardless if it may be useful.

If Anet wants to use Rebound as a spell for a Elementalist spec, then they should name the spec something else and not Tempest. Perhaps, Archmagus would be a better name instead of Tempest… Maybe then the elite Rebound might make more sense, theme wise.

Going back and looking at the traits/war horn skills tempest actually doesn’t look terrible. The biggest thing is overload is really bad the way it is now. I see alot of synergy with scepter for the warhorn with the cc and blind pulse. If you run fresh air and unstable conduit, you can keep overloading and gaining kitten shocking aura plus the lighting field. Incredibly strong against low stability classes. Other than that, I see no reason to want to overload an attunement.

Elementalists acutally have a long tradition of manipulating the cost, cast time, recharge, etc. of the next few spells. That’s actually what Glyphs did.

This is what I would have wanted

Hello, (note: Sorry for my english if you find some mistakes)
As many of you, I was disappointed by Tempest. But one can always dream. I created an idea about how I want an elite spec looks like. (Maybe 2nd one it the future?)
I already posted it here
This is actually an updated version here and I want to know what do you think about it:

Name: Sorcerer
Weapon: Main-hand sword
Utilities: Mantras
New mechanic: Attunement combinations
Lore: Sorcerer, elementalist’s elite specialization, is a fast and unpredictable combatant. Sorcerers usually leave back lines to help their fellow allies in the centre of battle itself. While Sorcerers specializes in fast and massive attacks thanks to their new weapon sword, which in Sorcerer’s hand is a source of great mobility and survivability, they still keep ways how to support friends via combining elements to create new spells, either defensive or offensive. And if Sorcerers want to stay away from their enemies, they can benefit from newly discovered ability to absorb elemental energy, which can be released in the key moments.

Sword skills:

• Fire
  -chain AA, slashing with fiery animations, last AA will throw fiery sword at your foe, burning him
  -Throw fire projectiles at your foes, dealing huge dmg (animation similar to guard’s Zealot’s Defense, but with fiery projectiles and without that barrier)
  -Stick the sword to the ground, creating large lava field which burns foes
• Water
  -chain AA, slashing with ice animations, each hit heals you, last one launches small water wave, which heals nearby allies and inflicts vulnerability to enemies.
  -Leap to target area, which grants regeneration and cures 1 condition from nearby allies, deals little damage to enemies
  -Stick your sword to the ground, creating ice blade in target location (similar animation to mesmer’s gs skill 3), damaging and chilling enemies
• Air
  -chain AA, slashing with lightning (or windy) animations, last one sends a lightning bolt to your foes (acts like ele’s staff air 1, but weaker, similar to the one Mai Trin is doing)
  -Strike your foes with flurry of lightning (or windy) strikes, last strike inflict weakness (Animation similar to war’s Flurry or mesmer’s Blurred frenzy, but with lightning or windy theme)
  -Throw lightning sword at your foe, blinding him. If the sword successfully hits, teleport to that foe and gain swiftness
• Earth
  -chain AA, slashing with dusty/rocky themed strikes, 2nd and 3rd strike bleeds your foe, 3rd one also cripples for 1 sec
  -Surround your sword with rocks and use it to block next attack. If attack is blocked, you can throw remains of that rocks to your the attacker, blinding him
  -Send out a wave of rock spikes, crippling and bleeding foes

Other skills (Mantras):
Similar to mesmer mantras, these mantras (or Absorptions, how they are named here) also need a long activation time, which is needed to absorb the energy of one element. This energy can be later released (2x before needed to be absorbed again) to perform an instant powerfull effect. (= releasing skill, the name is usually: /absorption name = Cleansing, Fire, etc./ Release)

• Heal skill:
  -Cleansing Absorption: Absorb water energy, which can be released in the form of Cleansing Wave (Actually releasing skill casts Cleansing Wave, but with a little stronger heal)
• Utility skills:
  -Absorption of Fire: Absorb fire energy, which can be released in the form of fire field, which highly damages and burns foes within (ground-targeted skill)
  -Absorption of Winds: Absorb air energy, which can be released to cast blindness and vulnerability (5 stacks maybe?) to your target and nearby foes around him, also grants swiftness (or super speed maybe?) to you
  -Absorption of Earth: Absorb earth energy, which can be released, granting you stability (but doesn’t break stun if you are already disabled) and immobilizing nearby foes
  -Absorption of Frost: Absorb ice energy, which can be released in the form of Frost Aura granted to nearby allies
• Elite skill:
  -Storm Absorption: Absorb storm energy, which can be released in the form of large storm which damages and dazes foes and grants resistance to allies in targeted area (ground-targeted skill). Unlike other mantras, this one’s release skill requires 1/4 sec cast time.

New mechanic: Attunement Combination
I was inspired by another post (sorry, can’t remember where), because I think that idea was perfect.
So, goal of this mechanic is, that you can combine your elements to cast new powerfull skills. This skill occupies your new f5 slot and depends od 2 factors: In which attunement you are, and which attunement you leaved before entering this one. This creates a lot of possibilities how this skill will work (note: If you for example swap from Fire to Air or from Air to Fire, skill will be the same):

Water<->Fire - Create 3 bubbles of boiling water around you. If a bubble is touched by enemy, it bursts, burning nearby foes and creating small water field.
Air<->Fire - Release a smoke, blinding and poisoning foes.
Earth<->Fire - Call down a massive meteor, which burns and launches foes.
Air<->Water - Create an enchanted mist, which grants regeneration to nearby allies and slows nearby foes.
Earth<->Water - Transform ground in the targeted area to mud, knocking down foes.
Earth<->Air - Release dust ahead of you, blinding nearby foes and granting short-term stealth to allies. (2 sec maybe?)

Traits
Ehm.. I am not good at this, sorry Maybe I will add them later

Doesn’t look creative at all tbh. Just more of the same. I would be very disappointed if they made something like this.

Jordo.5913:

This is what I would have wanted

Wouldn’t mind if it had like 240s CD.