Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Automated-Response-Immunity-with-no-cooldown/first

This thread needs the attention of the Engineer community.

lol the more attention it gets, the more likely it will be nerfed… unless, that’s your true intention :O! To get engi nerfed!

just let the thread hit 2nd page and be forgotten : )

Good point. 15/chars

I was once against an upleveled engineer with AR, 409, on my own condition engineer. There was also a lv 80 guardian. I had dropped the guardian 4 times before I finally got him killed and had to leave the engineer alone cause I just could not drop him.

I don’t think it’s OP, just a counter to the condition heavy meta.

vinceftw.5086:

I was once against an upleveled engineer with AR, 409, on my own condition engineer. There was also a lv 80 guardian. I had dropped the guardian 4 times before I finally got him killed and had to leave the engineer alone cause I just could not drop him.

I don’t think it’s OP, just a counter to the condition heavy meta.

Meanwhile, in the land of carrion gear…

I should get myself a set carrion. However, I play different classes and don’t have loads of gold and I like toughness on Rabid.

{ please remove this thread }

Aww… I want to talk about how now Engineers are the big bad wolf

Actually Grackle managed to bump this thread. It was about to go off page 1. Well done Grackle :P

Basically a GM trait in a non damaging trait line has become a hard counter to the condition heavy meta and thats not fair to all the Necros/HGH spammers and long bow warriors out there…. So it needs nerfed. That is pretty much where this AR hate is coming from.

HGH has nothing to fear from AR. Under HGH those grenades hit for over a thousand per toss, easy.

They can nerf it all they want! I hate it when bad ppl run this troll trait and i miss my nade barrage so it takes forever to kill.

No decent player should run this.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

HGH has nothing to fear from AR. Under HGH those grenades hit for over a thousand per toss, easy.

Lol. I can hit 1000 per toss on my non-HGH build, but I have to invest heavily in tools to do it. No one that deep in Alchemy is trying to do as much direct damage as HGH, but a condition damage/duration build might really benefit from it, since 25% health is much more survivable when you have more health and toughness.

RaynStargaze.6510:

They can nerf it all they want! I hate it when bad ppl run this troll trait and i miss my nade barrage so it takes forever to kill.

No decent player should run this.

Are you talking PvE? Or PvP/WvW?

This trait can be a corner-stone of a bunker or condition bunker build. Seriously.

lunyboy.8672:

RaynStargaze.6510:

They can nerf it all they want! I hate it when bad ppl run this troll trait and i miss my nade barrage so it takes forever to kill.

No decent player should run this.

Are you talking PvE? Or PvP/WvW?

This trait can be a corner-stone of a bunker or condition bunker build. Seriously.

always PvP my bad should have said so

On high lvl there are hardly any TRUE bunkers anymore – its all about team support + caps/decaps and kills

i kill AR engis regularly with full condi builds

it can be a pain in the kitten i guess but most of the time its not worth picking (only exception might be with soldiers amy but imo there are no strong builkds with that soooo)

RaynStargaze.6510:

lunyboy.8672:

RaynStargaze.6510:

They can nerf it all they want! I hate it when bad ppl run this troll trait and i miss my nade barrage so it takes forever to kill.

No decent player should run this.

Are you talking PvE? Or PvP/WvW?

This trait can be a corner-stone of a bunker or condition bunker build. Seriously.

always PvP my bad should have said so

On high lvl there are hardly any TRUE bunkers anymore – its all about team support + caps/decaps and kills

i kill AR engis regularly with full condi builds

it can be a pain in the kitten i guess but most of the time its not worth picking (only exception might be with soldiers amy but imo there are no strong builkds with that soooo)

Yeah, I haven’t reached high levels in sPvP, yet. But in wvw, it is hilarious to troll necros with this build, since they are supposed to be so OP. All the condis just melt away with the Runes of Melandru, the lemongrass soup and then the AR, even the necro’s bleeds at +133% duration don’t hold up.

It isn’t OP, though, because as stated before, 25% health is not a good position to be in.

there, grackle, i left a post in that thread with the usual nakoda charm.

read it before it gets baleeted.

;)

lol that didn’t take long.

at least this guy quoted it:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Automated-Response-Immunity-with-no-cooldown/page/6#post2450775

It is useless arguing with those guys. If they can’t faceroll their enemy, then the enemy must be nerfed.
They won’t accept any argument other than their own. Heh, even with a video, all they was able to say is that the engineer lost on purpose.

i’m having fun now.

they woke the dragon.

it’s been a couple months since i’ve had a chance to vent my anger towards stupidity on the forums. I must have cleared a few infractions by now, let’s see if i can get banned for setting the house on fire again.

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

I think one of the issues ATM is that Automated Response is bugged. It is supposed to just reduce condition duration by 100%, instead of giving full immunity.

Then again, like most bugs that engineers have, it’ll take months before it gets fixed. Man I wish my turrets were fixed…

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

that r40 necro sucks.

Basically, this.
Or it could have been easily staged, anyway. Exactly like the other video in the thread. For the sake of that necro, i would actually prefer the second option.

Inc a tpvp video!

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

Staged, and also badly played by the necromancer. Without being able to see their build and skill bar and how they used their cooldowns this video is useless. Your “evidence” has been obtained fraudulently.

You and your posse have also failed to address the flaws in your argument, and have failed to address the many counter arguments during this entire debate such as:

Developers have stated that grandmaster traits should be build defining and feel powerful: This qualifies.

eSports, specifically MMO eSports, are team oriented. All you have demonstrated in the video is a scenario that wouldn’t play out for 2.5 hours ever, much less 2.5 minutes. A teammate would have been called in to destroy the (narrowly spec’d) engineer within seconds.

We have built ourselves to survive and thrive in a condition heavy meta, yet you all refuse to adapt after asking us to.

Your argument is weak, relies on deception, ignores design intent as stated by developers, and offers evidence that has been contrived. If you continue to refuse to address the above, then you have no real argument.

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

ronpierce.2760:

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

Yes. Exactly as you didn’t accept any evidence of an engineer dieing despite this trait.
As one can be staged, so can the other.

ronpierce.2760:

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

It is pointless to just keep arguing. The op in that other thread is childish as hell. Wont accept videos where engies die using it but if its the other way around it is a-ok. Such hypocrisy.

Didn’t that engineer also say he’s not really used to playing engineer, he was just showing how it works?

Penguin.5197:

ronpierce.2760:

But of course… “They were all just bad and none of them had a place to be in tpvp in the first place!” This argument is endless, I can show you me never dying and I’m still wrong. XD

It is pointless to just keep arguing. The op in that other thread is childish as hell. Wont accept videos where engies die using it but if its the other way around it is a-ok. Such hypocrisy.

Wrong I explained how either way videos can be discredited.

Zelulose.8695:

Wrong I explained how either way videos can be discredited.

Uh-huh

Zelulose.8695:

I have to say the results from the video are hard to ignore I wonder what people will say to It. What is seen in the video is exactly why I brought up this topic.

Penguin.5197:

Zelulose.8695:

Wrong I explained how either way videos can be discredited.

Uh-huh

Zelulose.8695:

I have to say the results from the video are hard to ignore I wonder what people will say to It. What is seen in the video is exactly why I brought up this topic.

Yes I said “I wonder what people will say to it” because I already figured the people supporting AR would disagree with the video under any circumstances.

Zelulose.8695:

Yes I said "I wonder what people will say to it "because I already figured the people supporting AR would disagree with the video under any circumstances.

That is, the exact same thing that people disagreeing with the trait did before when a video with an engineer dieing was posted.

Manuhell.2759:

Zelulose.8695:

Yes I said "I wonder what people will say to it "because I already figured the people supporting AR would disagree with the video under any circumstances.

That is, the exact same thing that people disagreeing with the trait did before when a video with an engineer dieing was posted.

I know and this is why videos are useless on forums to prove a point.

Zelulose.8695:

I know and this is why videos are useless on forums to prove a point.

I agree.

They’re not useless. The video should pass some sort of rigor tests like:

• Is in a team situation.
• Displays several matches vs. different team compositions.
• Shows end of match ranks and scores.
• Shows fights from enemies perspectives to show the quality and coordination of their gameplay.

In testing, you build tests and you show repeated results in many scenarios. This test build wouldn’t pass muster. These videos don’t represent true testing in the least and show the smallest sample size possible.

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

I’ll tell you what, I asked for a video, and here it is. Eye, opening! Why wasn’t the necro taking any damage?

Now I will agree with my fellow posters that this video shows the extreme of AR, and I’m sure that’s intentional. I’m guessing a legitimate fight would go much differently, so you can’t ask ANet to base balance decisions on fake fights. But to give credit where it is due, your video does show a theoretical scenario where the engineer is unkillable by a full condition necro.

because he specced bombs without increased bomb radius, apparently,

Well I think it’s an important point. If the two builds counter eachother, or if the engineer is so specialized in the AR build that he cannot kill the necro, then it’s a stalemate and nobody wins. That’s pretty balanced.

He shows his spec toward the end. He’s 0/0/30/30/10, heavily bunkered.

ronpierce.2760:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Nn0lPesyak

2.5 hours played on an Engi TOTAL, can make a build impossible to kill for a condi necro. That’s not esport, fans.

lol no one has called out ‘em legendary 87 dmg bleeds lol… what kind of full condi necro is that ?? no dhummfire ? Terror ? he didn’t even try to use doom LOL

sorry About The echo BUT!!.. Terrible staged fight :/

google.3709:

lol no one has called out ‘em legendary 87 dmg bleeds lol… what kind of full condi necro is that ?? no dhummfire ? Terror ? he didn’t even try to use doom LOL

sorry About The echo BUT!!.. Terrible staged fight :/

I thought about it but since I’m use to WvW ticks, I wasn’t sure whether 87 was a big or small number in PvP.

Eviator.9746:

google.3709:

lol no one has called out ‘em legendary 87 dmg bleeds lol… what kind of full condi necro is that ?? no dhummfire ? Terror ? he didn’t even try to use doom LOL

sorry About The echo BUT!!.. Terrible staged fight :/

I thought about it but since I’m use to WvW ticks, I wasn’t sure whether 87 was a big or small number in PvP.

Incredibly small, should be over 100 at least (necro must have been using a shaman amulet to make dmg output as low as possible).

Afte doig some quick calculations, 87 ticks comes out to a little less than 900 condi power (closer to 850 actually). It kinda sounds like it was a bunker vs bunker fight.

Here’s the truth.

Automated Response has been in the game since forever, and recently got a slight nerf.
The Conditioneer has been in the game since forever, and over the course of a year its been nerfed more then that it has been buffed. Altough its not really that much of a difference then at launch.

And now suddenly. Conditioneer is OP and Automated Response is OP. Now, not 12 months ago, not 9 months ago, not 6 months, hell not even 3 months ago. No, its something that suddenly happend very recently.
Again, two things that have pretty much been a constant since launch.

Meta… Meta always changes.

Automated response is now considered OP because everyone and their mother is running a condition build and this is the best way that engis have to counter that. So now it is viewed as OP. It is actually not OP considering the strict requirements to kick in the low margin for error on the trait and any one person coming in from the other team will destroy the engi at that low of health.

no worries lol, it’s only a few and based on the comment they make.. they are gw2 most terrible players lol

It’s unreal all the silly examples that are being put out, just sad

Go look at Warrior’s Berserker’s Stance. Warriors can be condition resistant whenever they want. (And they can trait for it auto at 25% health.) AND…. they just got a buff to the duration.

Watch for changes to that before they nerf AR.

AR is pretty strong but I wouldn’t jump into conclusions and say it’s very OP. I wouldn’t feel so OP being at 25% hp, frankly. Usually when I’m at 25% hp in WvW, I’d run the hell away at this point, far far away from the zerg…

Also, I think it’s fair that for every “Achille’s heel” skill/build, there is a counter to it. It just so happens heavily condi builds has AR to counter it. I wouldn’t want to see an overly OP build (with supposedly no counters) that can kill me in seconds and I don’t think Anet would want to see that either. And to counter AR, you need power to dps the crap out of us and kill AR engis. There’s the counter, folks; our kryptonite.

That thread is beyond ridiculous – as Nakoda pointed out the whole argument is based on 1v1 and fueled by FOTM condition build players taht are baffled that there is a counter to their setup. All attempts to point out that it’s a team game and calling in reinforcements to deal with a build that sacrifices everythign to counter something very specific are completely ignored. I would like to have faith in ANet that they don’t simply read thread titles and number of views/responses as a means for their balancing decisions….