Guild Wars 2

So only the 1st spam skill is nerfed and not the ice and such? If that is true with blind being able to damage now instead of just blind them and poison too it may not be bad at all. Not sure.

One question though would I be better off getting dual pistol now instead of my rifle could I get 10% increase back with 2 weapons? No reading problems but seems confusing to me at least but I don’t read everything that happens around here.

Out of curiosity, because I honestly wasn’t aware, but…

“•Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE.”

What was the difference between PvP and PvE grenade damage?

calm down people, what if the sigil effects apply to each grenade being thrown? then 30% is perfectly reasonable..

DreamOfACure.4382:

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

Okay then they can nerf it AFTER they make it scale with weapon damage.

Heaven forbid we should get to play with a specific kit and build that could possibly be a little on the strong side. Engineers are one of if not the least played profession, why not have something to attract more ppl to play, the more ppl that play the more accurate the information you gather about professions is.

I hardly play this game anymore as it is because there isnt much incentive to do anything unless you want to collect skins. But with the way they keep fiddle kittening with stupid little balance issue instead of fixing things that flat out don’t work makes me wonder how long this game is going to last.

Seems like all they care about is trying to balance tPvP.

At the moment just wish I could patch such a great thing to patch on a friday night US prime time…

My 2 thoughts on this:

1) maybe it’s time for me to try FT + HGH build again…

2) changing flash and poison grenades to do damage on hit doesn’t make up for the damage loss – they aren’t off cooldown in time to constantly throw them like the 1 skill is.

Vasham.2408:

You know this is the kit’s #1 skill, and not the whole kit right? Reading comprehension helps.

Ow so its just our bread and butter ability that took a mere 30% nerf in damage? Yah thats nothing.
/sarcasm

Grenades were not overpowered, they were better then everything else because all the other kits were just so incredibly bad. I use toolkit and flamethrower, but not for damage, god no son. Not for damage. For utility.
Grenadekit is the only kit that can actually rival the Rifle in terms of damage output.

And even then its pisspoor compared to other professions. Get with your head in the game people, just because Grenades are much better then other kits does not mean its to good. In this case it means the other kits are just that bad.

Shrapnel went up a good deal also and I love that grenade on walls and zergs.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Out of curiosity, because I honestly wasn’t aware, but…

“•Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE.”

What was the difference between PvP and PvE grenade damage?

Before, spvp grenade damage was reduced by 10% compared to pve/wvw grenade damage.

LegoTechnic.5910:

Out of curiosity, because I honestly wasn’t aware, but…

“•Grenade kit damage is now equal in PvP and PvE.”

What was the difference between PvP and PvE grenade damage?

in spvp g1, 2,4 all have .45 skill coeffs since last patch.
in pve/wvw g1 has .5, g2 has .55, g4 has .5 skill coeffs.
Barrage has .375 in both. (despite claims of being reduced.)

DreamOfACure.4382:

epicsmooth.7825:

So nerf the only kit they buts eng on par with other classes…..makes sense.

Yeah, it does make sense:

Cause they plan to make kits scale with weapon damage too – Confirmed by a red post

Cmon, keep up, people! You’re all so behind the curve.

I plan to make a billion dollars too.

Dang patching at primetime Anet!

are they serious? i just read that thief gets a buff…on top of this i just don’t know what to say.

LegoTechnic.5910:

No, this would be valid had they decreased the damage after making stats effects kits, not well before such a change occurred. Doing it the way you’re insinuating is downright silly.

WRONG.

That’s not how real game-balance works for regular-update MMOs. I know because I play LoL, and they do this ALL THE TIME. And a few LoL designers worked very closely with ANet in the development of GW2.

Developers will put out what’s ready to be shipped.

This time, it was sigils and they needed to get the nerf out first. The stats come later.
That’s the way reality has unfolded, I’m sorry if you don’t like it.

Underwater, it looks like I’ll have to reacquaint myself with the harpoon gun. Don’t use grenades in PvE otherwise.

I think I’ll still use grenades for WvW siege and counter-siege ops. AoE and 1200 range is still pretty useful, even if the damage is much less now. (It’s not like I can rely on mortar for that!)

It’s not the whole kit. Just 1.

CriSPeH.8512:

Okay then they can nerf it AFTER they make it scale with weapon damage.

Nope. Because game health > temporary player satisfaction.

The peace of mind from all the other engineers who want to use flamethrower, bomb kit, tool kit, and elixir gun without the thought of nades’ superiority looming over their heads.

That outweighs your input.

Coltz.5617:

calm down people, what if the sigil effects apply to each grenade being thrown? then 30% is perfectly reasonable..

Sigils with proc effects have internal cooldowns so they can’t fire more than once every two seconds or so meaning multi-hit grenades gain no benefit other than ease of application, similar to how they eat up all three incendiary ammo charges but only cause a single burn.

Sigils with passive effects like force’s +5% damage are unaffected, but then… that’s just +5% damage.

On the other hand, since weapon stats still have no bearing whatsoever on your kits you can feel free to use a pistol/shield or pistol/pistol to maybe stack up to two sigils. That could be a little nicer, assuming the offhand weapon’s still apply. Would kind of suck for rifle users, though. If both weapon sigils apply, then every kit engineer out there will probably want to dual-wield for now.

Also did you notice most weapons get a holiday skin in the notes, but not rifle? At least there will be Christmas pistols. :-x

DreamOfACure.4382:

CriSPeH.8512:

Okay then they can nerf it AFTER they make it scale with weapon damage.

Nope. Because game health > temporary player satisfaction.

The peace of mind from all the other engineers who want to use flamethrower, bomb kit, tool kit, and elixir gun without the thought of nades’ superiority looming over their heads.

That outweighs your input.

Yes we can all use them in lion’s arch because you are useless everywhere else.

General balance
Engineer Kit Sigils. The Engineer now benefits from the sigils on their weapons when they swap to a kit. So, this means that you will have the ability to get sigil procs on your Flame Thrower, or Grenade Kit, etc. This means we had to tone down some of the kits accordingly, the biggest of which was the Grenade kit.
Engineer Grenade Kit Changes. We didn’t want to totally take away the power of this kit, but when it is able to proc sigil abilities, it becomes very strong due to its powerful AOE nature. So we’ve toned down this kit a little due to the sigils now working on engineer kits.

from: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999226

No need to speculate

Edit also related to engineer:

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

DreamOfACure.4382:

WRONG.

That’s not how real game-balance works for regular-update MMOs. I know because I play LoL, and they do this ALL THE TIME. And a few LoL designers worked very closely with ANet in the development of GW2.

Developers will put out what’s ready to be shipped.

This time, it was sigils and they needed to get the nerf out first. The stats come later.

And yes, that does mean an overall nerf for the time being.
Get over it.

Oh no wonder people from LoL are in on it…..some of the worse balancers in a game I’ve seen.

Also have to wonder how many MMOs you have played, but hey just means I retire my engineer for months till they maybe get the stats patch out.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves
2. mesmers and
3. D/D Elemantalists

They buffed the three most overpowered classes in the game and nerfed Engineers. Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one. This is total clownshoes, and Anet needs to be called out on it.

Ahlen.7591:

It’s not the whole kit. Just 1.

Ah, so it is.

In that case, no change required whatsoever. Excellent!

I read that line as just skill #1 being nerfed by 30%, but is it just base damage or overall damage? This patch is taking forever to download so it might be a while for me to figure out, but I do admit that Grenades were pretty OP to begin with. Not only damage was pretty high, but it was also super-effective as an AoE as each grenade was treated individually as far as the 5-mob limit is concerned (meaning that grenades in general had the capability of hitting more than 5 mobs). I wouldn’t be surprised that it had to be nerfed.

On the other hand, I do welcome the Flash and Poison grenade damage. Except in special situations where I would have to save a certain grenade for certain situations, I tend to toss every grenade as it goes off cooldown. Depending on the situation, it might make up for the lost DPS on skill 1. I guess I’ll just have to test it when the patch finally loads up.

NickDollahZ.5348:

Edit also related to engineer:

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Funny how we get the “utility tax” yet Guardians who are literally in demand by groups (we aren’t) for their utility don’t.

DreamOfACure.4382:

LegoTechnic.5910:

No, this would be valid had they decreased the damage after making stats effects kits, not well before such a change occurred. Doing it the way you’re insinuating is downright silly.

WRONG.

That’s not how real game-balance works for regular-update MMOs. I know because I play LoL, and they do this ALL THE TIME. And a few LoL designers worked very closely with ANet in the development of GW2.

Developers will put out what’s ready to be shipped.

This time, it was sigils and they needed to get the nerf out first. The stats come later.

And yes, that does mean an overall nerf for the time being.
Get over it.

Well ppl complaining to vent frustration is a way of “getting over it.”

And since sometime in the future they plan on fixing the rendering bug in WvW shouldn’t they nerf the Thieves attacks right now?
And since they are sometime in the future going to fix the gate bypass exploits in WvW shouldn’t they nerf the Mesmer portal right now?

Seems like we are one of the few professions that got pre-nerfed for something they will probally do in the future.
This isn’t LoL, ppl paid money for this game and there is more to this game than tPvP.

amiable.4823:

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves
2. mesmers and
3. D/D Elemantalists

They buffed the three most overpowered classes in the game and nerfed Engineers. Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one. This is total clownshoes, and Anet needs to be called out on it.

That was the thing that took me from being unhappy with the Engineer nerfs, to no longer having faith in the competence of ArenaNet’s class balance team.

amiable.4823:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves

They buffed PISTOLS, which are none to be below average compared to daggers and shortbow.

You truly don’t know a thing about Thieves.
More then half of the Thief buffs are towards their Pistol capabilities.

Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one.

I can find DOZENS. You’ve clearly got a selective memory problem.

NickDollahZ.5348:

General balance
Engineer Kit Sigils. The Engineer now benefits from the sigils on their weapons when they swap to a kit. So, this means that you will have the ability to get sigil procs on your Flame Thrower, or Grenade Kit, etc. This means we had to tone down some of the kits accordingly, the biggest of which was the Grenade kit.
Engineer Grenade Kit Changes. We didn’t want to totally take away the power of this kit, but when it is able to proc sigil abilities, it becomes very strong due to its powerful AOE nature. So we’ve toned down this kit a little due to the sigils now working on engineer kits.

from: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/999226

No need to speculate

Edit also related to engineer:

Engineer
The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Looks like they did though

Not sure they took into account how many times you miss when moving targets or just a small hill is in the way. Only in perfect conditions did grenades do very well.

CriSPeH.8512:

This isn’t LoL, ppl paid money for this game and there is more to this game than tPvP.

You’ll be sorely disappointed then. Because you paid for a game made by people who think a lot like LoL developers. You’re the one whose out of the loop, pal.

And just so ya know:
At least one major LoL game-designers were deeply involved in GW1 as well. So you reeeally need to brush up on your game-design history. :P

epicsmooth.7825:

Oh no wonder people from LoL are in on it…..some of the worse balancers in a game I’ve seen.

I’d be sad about what you said, except LoL’s more balanced then it’s ever been.
Except for Teemo. He needs to die.

Your statement reminds me of DotA-fanatics who only know how to hate on other MOBAs without even properly learning the game. Players who don’t play for the game, they play for their ego.

I sincerely hope you aren’t like that.

It definitely irks me that they apparently prioritized nerfing grenades over buffing the FT. Grenades didn’t “need” balancing. They were good, but they weren’t exactly making us a FoTM class or anything. There was no reason to be spending time looking at grenades when something like the FT is obviously in need of some love.

It basically tells us that the devs were more worried about the grenade kit “possibly, maybe” being “slightly” overpowered, than they were about fixing everything about this class that’s underpowered.

I don’t mind nerfs. I’m not one of those people who take the Grover Norquist-esque “never nerf, ever” approach to game balance. But, if they’re going to nerf the only real viable DPS-ish spec we had, they probably shouldn’t do that until they buff our other skills to the point where we have options.

-Travail.

amiable.4823:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves
2. mesmers and
3. D/D Elemantalists

They buffed the three most overpowered classes in the game and nerfed Engineers. Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one. This is total clownshoes, and Anet needs to be called out on it.

Just to say it, mesmer portal got nerfed. It now has a hard limit of 20 players, after which it disappears, and they may further adjust the limit later.

We are going to be one shotting people in pvp with our 88 damage on flash grenade…

DreamOfACure.4382:

amiable.4823:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves

They buffed PISTOLS, which are none to be below average compared to daggers and shortbow.

You truly don’t know a thing about Thieves.
More then half of the Thief buffs are towards their Pistol capabilities.

Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one.

I can find DOZENS. You’ve clearly got a selective memory problem.

Yea thanks for buffing pistol my P/D thief already destroyed before this patch with it.

DreamOfACure.4382:

amiable.4823:

DreamOfACure.4382:

Get over it.

I’ve been on a lot of MMO forums before but some of the Arenanet supporters are downright delusional. In this patch they buffed:

1. thieves

They buffed PISTOLS, which are none to be below average compared to daggers and shortbow.

You truly don’t know a thing about Thieves.
More then half of the Thief buffs are towards their Pistol capabilities.

Was there a single post on the forums complaining about OP engineers? I defy you to find a single one.

I can find DOZENS. You’ve clearly got a selective memory problem.

Really so the speed increase in stealth wasn’t also a buff? Please link these dozens of threads. I don’t believe you.

Just tried it in bloodtide coast…. the damage reduction is bad very very bad.

Hitting for 116 or so on Drakes at level 80 200 crit

Blind hits for 70 crit

New pve ratios are
grenade 1. .33 skill coeff
g2 .55 skill coeff
g3. .1 skill coeff.
g4. .45 skill coeff
g5. .2 skill coeff.

(seriously. .1? and .2?)

Told you guys this would happen.

First you complain that Grenades are the only way to play, now you kitten that its not. You guys are making this game horrible with your constant whining.

Short fuse seems fixed in pve at least.

Yay for short fuse! Shelving this one waste of time. Who wants a gimp in a group?

I think everyone’s overreacting just a bit. Yeah, the nerf on skill 1 is sad, but it’s not going to do as much as people think.

1 is your bread and butter, but 2’s shrapnel grenade is ready to go every 4-5 tosses. And now 3, the flash grenade, with a mere 8-10 second cooldown, has damage on it. Add in the fact that 5: poison grenade is now viciously powerful… Well, I’d say there’s a lot of fun to still be had.

Also, aren’t most Grenade builds using crit/pow or crit/condi? If you’re using Pistol/Pistol or Pistol/Shield, you get two sigils. Earth and Fragility for condition, or Accuracy and Force for sheer damage. Or Accuracy and Strength to get yourself some awesome might stacking in addition to all your Vulnerable stacking.

Try it before you kitten on it.

Wasdclick.1764:

I think everyone’s overreacting just a bit. Yeah, the nerf on skill 1 is sad, but it’s not going to do as much as people think.

1 is your bread and butter, but 2’s shrapnel grenade is ready to go every 4-5 tosses. And now 3, the flash grenade, with a mere 8-10 second cooldown, has damage on it. Add in the fact that 5: poison grenade is now viciously powerful… Well, I’d say there’s a lot of fun to still be had.

Also, aren’t most Grenade builds using crit/pow or crit/condi? If you’re using Pistol/Pistol or Pistol/Shield, you get two sigils. Earth and Fragility for condition, or Accuracy and Force for sheer damage. Or Accuracy and Strength to get yourself some awesome might stacking in addition to all your Vulnerable stacking.

Try it before you kitten on it.

look a couple posts up

Well we have snowball fights pretty much sums up the grenade kit now.

I was expecting blind/poison to at least hit like shrapnel (freeze has extra radius, so I always expected that to hit a little softer). I hope you’re mistaken about the coeffs, Casia.

Playing grenades on some fights is stupidly hard, but I’ve done it anyway because it has also been kind of hectic and fun. For instance Alpha in CoE explore is a crazy difficult fight to use grenades on because everyone is literally all over the place, and swapping between them and a rifle was really engaging. Even so I’ll be testing performance with the regular group between a Flamethrower and a grenade build, and if the results end up close I’ll probably be dropping nades simply because they’re just so much more work.

I do want to test them out in WvWvW though. That bit about them doing the same in PvP and PvE has me intrigued.

Be calm. Looks like it was just the spam grenade attack that got 30% off. At least it looks like that going off what my tooltips were before.

amiable.4823:

Really so the speed increase in stealth wasn’t also a buff? Please link these dozens of threads. I don’t believe you.

Dude, no thief worth even a drop of the blood on their daggers used Fleet of Shadow. o_O

You clearly don’t know jack about thief traits.

I don’t even feel the need to dispute you anymore. All I feel is pity, man. Seriously, actually try rolling a thief (a GOOD one) before you complain about them again.

Orion the Cursed.1206:

Told you guys this would happen.

First you complain that Grenades are the only way to play, now you kitten that its not. You guys are making this game horrible with your constant whining.

Play a Thief or Warrior and the game wont be as bad.
The reason Grenades were considered the only way to play was because the profession set up basically forces you to use a kit. ANET states exactly that, MH weapons are weaker because of our kit options, to me that is ANET saying that the only viable way to play an Engineer is to play with a kit. Out of all the kits the grenades have the most appeal to the widest range of ppl.

Bomb kit is tricky to use and also looks stupid, just running around swinging your arm dropping terracotta pots on the ground.
EG is support.
FT is bugged.
Toolkit was difficult to use, then they patched it, now it is alot cooler but still difficult to use. (as much as I love TANKCAT, its also a gimmick build that is defeated when you fight someone smart enough not to kill themselves with confusion)

Grenades were just a love/hate thing with most ppl.
PPL have had nothing but negatives to say about turrets and yet those havent been touched at all.

They claim the class has versatility but that only counts in dungeons where you know what is coming. Unless you can tell the future in PvP you would have to run around with three kits to get the “versatility” they claim compensates for our weakness.

In the end Engineers just have to wait another few months or so untill ANET figures out what the hell they really want to do with this thrown together profession.

I think the Dev who came up with 30% was thinking same thing so others in this post thought . That 3x grandaes whould cause 3x proc of a sigil. When infact this is impossable due to internal cooldowns. You would not even get back to back proc on throws. Only 1 proc per 3 throws at most. So not sure how sigils make nades 30% stronger.

DreamOfACure.4382:

amiable.4823:

Really so the speed increase in stealth wasn’t also a buff? Please link these dozens of threads. I don’t believe you.

Dude, no thief worth even a drop of the blood on their daggers used Fleet of Shadow. o_O

You clearly don’t know jack about thief traits.

I don’t even feel the need to dispute you anymore. All I feel is pity, man. Seriously, actually try rolling a thief (a GOOD one) before you complain about them again.

So basically you can’t show the “dozens of threads” you refer to saying the engineer is overpowered. And now you are defending how underpowered the thief is. Yeah, your Mr. Credible. LOL.

Compare:

Engineer• The Engineer is a highly versatile class. While it doesn’t have the long range capabilities of the Ranger, or the melee capabilities of the Warrior or Guardian, they are comfortable at medium ranges in most fights. They have a lot of control, and use their boons to keep themselves (and allies) alive in a fight. They can use different kits based on the situation, but this extreme versatility comes at a cost in damage on their main hand weapons.

Against

Ele• We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.