Guild Wars 2

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

The dev team has been tracking the concern about the Engineer backpacks for quite a while. They understand our players’ point of view, and this is something that a few different team members have discussed for a possible remedy. They’ve batted around a few ideas about how to fix this problem, including some of those mentioned in this thread. (Thanks for all the suggestions – they’re very helpful!)

For example, one designer thought that with new art, we might be able to display the kits on the weapon holsters on the right or left hip, so players could tell what kits are in use while allowing the Engineer to display a sweet back-piece, too. Another suggested that perhaps Gem Store items could simply override the kits, so if you owned a Quaggan Backpack, your character displayed a Quaggan Backpack. (Please note: This doesn’t mean to say that either of these ideas will be the one that is settled upon. I just offered examples so you could see that thoughts and possible solutions definitely have been discussed.)

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

Off topic, but any chance you can do the same kind of thing like you did with this with one/all the threads in the main discussion about the currencies and the wallet? Any chance we can happen to have you check in on why the wallet isn’t utilized more?

Both options sound fine, but with the latter one (at least) would there also be an option to override that? (other than having to waste trans charge to change the skin)

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

They’ve been ‘engaged in other prioritized projects’ for years now, probably being rolled from one to the next and then on to whatever new project came up while they were working on the other ones.
Thanks for actually looking into it, in any case. It’s nice to hear they still care, even if the current project pipeline seems unlikely to ever allow them time to do anything about it.

super nice to get an update on this. I hope it gets more attention time for the next feature patch or something like that.

Thank you, Gaile, for investigating this! A solution for the next feature pack would make a lot of people very happy, I think this is high on the list of player priorities at this point, especially with so many fashion back pieces that are available now.

Greatly appreciate the update.

That holster idea sounds good, though i have no idea if we have holsters… No, we dont have holsters. So would the new kit thingies clip with pistols now? That doesnt sound as good.

The Trade Post backpack override idea is generally what we would like for all backpacks, not just the trade post ones. After all, Living Story rewards are largely centered around backpacks, and those are not TP items. Would also feel like a bad money-grab with that limitation.

I imagine that the team responsible for the engineer things would like to do this right and preferably only once (sometime in the uncertain future), but personally I don’t think that all those resources you listed would be needed for the most preferred solution. Its mostly just programming really. (Though admittedly i can imagine that programming any solution would take the most time.)

These kit backpacks are just not needed. Many small polls and threads asked if PvP players rely on their tell, and to my knowledge there has been none who vehemently argued for the sensible need for them, speaking from experience. Even if there was, Standardized Character Models would be the correct path to keep them happy. Removal from typical play would require no art or design involvement.

Also, if art or design is involved, that means that the packs are changed, thus they would be learned again. “Which new effect ties to which kit?” It would be a nightmare where the team works much and hard and nobody is happy. Not the engis who wanted them gone for good, nor the silent few who would rely on the old backpacks and their tells.

Hello Gaile. Glad to finally get some feedback, and I thank you for that.

Here are my thoughts about the last news.

And yes, I know those are not the solutions that will be given to us, but I will still give my opinion about it.

> The fix concerning gem-store only backpacks is a big no. Many backpacks are released in that game as IG rewards, sometimes really expensive one (Jetpack, anyone?) and some players build their looks around those backpacks.

If a fix happens, it should concern all backpacks. That’s as simple as that.

> Second idea, the holster one. Not a big fan of it since it’s once again an undyable (that’s the biggest issue, undyable. That color clashes with almost all kind of armors.) piece that will recover the armor we are so proud of. Plus, if the holsters are that little, they won’t even serve their purpose, especially on Asuras, giving them another advantage.

And I will also add that there is already a backpiece completely trashing the prediction purpose of the backpacks, the rucksack, already completely covering backpieces.

-

Here is the best solution exposed in that topic, in my humble opinion :

> Each engineer get a visible boon similar to the attunement of the elementalists when equiped with a kit. Like that, our enemy can see what we are using.

Then, we get a checkbox in our inventory, near our bag. If checked, the engineer backpacks are displayed when using kits, replacing the classical backpiece. If not, they are not displayed, and the classical backpiece/absence of backpiece stays.

If a checkbox is not possible, just give us the attunement solution and get rid of the backpack, maybe releasing the different skins as backpiece skins, free of charge for engineers.

Once again, thanks.

A charr engineer hoping that this issue will finally be resolved.

Riight… Like, if the backpack skin textures are on the same texture file as the rest of the given Kit item? Flamethrower and the backpack for it? I suppose if the backpacks are gone there is no use for those textures, and thus the whole texture file would need to be optimized, made smaller. However if the texture is as mashed around as much as i expect it from professionals (who tend to use up the smallest possible portion of a texture file), it might need the complete rearranging of the entire thing. Rather tedious and annoying.

Although the fact that there have been reports about kit backpacks loading later than their weapon bundle (when the game loads a bit slowly) suggest that they are separate entities. Thats just assumption though.

Welp, I’d really like to know how much the workload would turn out for the devs, if the target is to give us an option that disables kit-display permanently if tick’d.

I totally understand that living story is higher on their agenda, but as someone that studied informatics and graphical design, I can not see a reason for this to more than a day for a single person to be implemented.
>open class for engi-backpacks
>implement check for the class when equipping a backpack
>if false, continue display default backpack

and the UI changes

>add true/false flag
>add string " Display engi backpacks"
>add pointer for engi-backpack class

there you go, done.

Ofc I have no idea how they have actually organized their assets, but given that no shenanigans inter-class refferer would bug the check, this is really nothing more than roughly 20 lines of code (regardless what language is used) + bugtesting.

And if people actually complain in pvp or wvw about the missing tell, implement a exception for standard-character-models later on.

Gaile Gray.6029:

skullmount — can you point me to the most relevant thread? You mentioned “all” and I got worried that I might spend half a day trying to get caught up. If there’s a particular thread, I would be able to focus on that and see what I can glean. If there was a particularly post that contained a concise listing of concerns, even better! (I’m not asking anyone for an investment of time, just wondering if there’s an efficient way to look into this.)

First, thank you for replying

Take your pick It just seemed like in the past few days quite of few threads were started to talk about the wallet (A lot got buried quickly, had to go back 14 pages ). None of them really got much discussion.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Why-aren-t-you-using-the-wallet/first#post4540255
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Bandit-Crests-and-Geodes-in-Wallet/first#post4540438
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/New-currencies-not-stored-in-wallet/first#post4540547
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-Currencies-The-Wallet/first#post4542765 (has the most posts, but one of the most buried)
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Adding-new-currencies-to-the-Wallet/first#post4554957
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Expanded-Wallet-for-Merchant-Tokens/first#post4557204

Theres also this one in the LS forum
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/s2/Unify-the-LS-tokens/first#post4559224

I think most of us just want to know why nothings been done with the wallet. More currencies have been added since its release, but the wallet hasn’t been utilized.

Also, so for the off topic/derailment.

Thank you for replying and getting back to us, Gaile! We all appreciate it very much!
I’d like to ask if the devs and players would like legendary auras to show while in a kit. I personally Love the pink Quip aura and the Predator aura as well. It’s kind of disappointing to work so hard for a legendary only to have the effects disappear when we use our kits (which is most of combat for me)
I dont know if others share my opinion, but I would like it if my legendary aura would show through while using a kit (with or without said hobosack)

Gaile Gray.6029:

lakdav — it’s not necessarily “re-artifying” the items, but optimizing art if an item is resized.

Sometimes players think that a miniature is simply a resized piece of art from the game, like a skritt or an NPC. But in fact each miniature involves some level of new or re-optimized art. I like to share details because I think that a lot of folks don’t realize how what looks like “a simple fix” really does involve more than it first appears.

Hi Gaile, might I suggest a unique icon (a la buff/condition/elementalist attunement) to indicate the currently selected kit. Grenade would be a grenade, bomb a bomb, flamethrower a flame, elixir gun a needle, and finally a toolkit for the wrench.

Gaile Gray.6029:

lakdav — it’s not necessarily “re-artifying” the items, but optimizing art if an item is resized.

Sometimes players think that a miniature is simply a resized piece of art from the game, like a skritt or an NPC. But in fact each miniature involves some level of new or re-optimized art. I like to share details because I think that a lot of folks don’t realize how what looks like “a simple fix” really does involve more than it first appears.

I might gonna sound like an kitten right now but i take the chance i sounded like an kitten before in this treat countless times anyway.

I think two years are quite some time for a “simple fix” that drives more people away from the class then many ppl would think, specially since end game content is to a big part making a pretty looking char. Look at elementalists… they got a similar system. What do they have? Bracers that dont overwrite the gloves and a neat attument icon. Fair enough. What do the engineers get? Brown, barely “charr tech” (what the engineer class uses afterall after the lore) looking sacks with a reddish brown cloth rag that remove the backpiece or just right away clip away like there is no tomorrow with it. Why arent these things designed at all like they would be made by charr? Where is the dark metal? The lion like engravings? Why do these things look so “basic” if we need to use them from day one to whenever? I mean somebody on the design team must have atleast thought about how badly this will backfire eventually.

Engineers already clearly got the shaft with the armor class and its…rather underwhelming designs that consist of 90% coats and two gem store armors who got a more “traditional” design…or better said a design id think of if i think engineer and only 3 (land) legendary weapons that also dont really look anything like they would be used by a non magic using class and then also these “high end game” items dont benefit the engineer at all if he\she is a kit user. No footsteps, aura, special projectile effects while you use a kit, also no visible lion ticket weapon 90% of the time, no LS reward backpack 90% of the time. Lets compare this to the elementalist.. beeing the closest in mechanics to the engi. Their weapons are visible all the time, effects are visible and the weapon can be sheathed…another thing the kits dont do. Again i ask myself why this was approved… specially cause the engineer class was one of the two classes
and i quote : “Could not ship the game without” (the guardian is the other class for those who dont know)

I mean sure…the staff got other things going on… but its two years now, two years cause i know that people already complain since the beta about this issue…. In two years im sure somebody had a day or two to look into that…

lakdav.3694:

Greatly appreciate the update.

That holster idea sounds good, though i have no idea if we have holsters… No, we dont have holsters. So would the new kit thingies clip with pistols now? That doesnt sound as good.

Well, your regular weapons already disappear when you use a kit, so there wouldn’t be anything there for them to clip with.

Personally, I like the hipsacks solution over just not overriding any current backpiece, partly because I’m finding the current look for my Engineer that I like has no backpiece at all, but mostly because I think it gives a good balance between giving a visual tell without having to cover up some part of my character’s look.

Gaile Gray.6029:

I’ll remember this post and if there’s something new on the subject, will update.

This sentence – is sooo beautiful ^______^

Btw what about grenades / bombs in hands? Like the toolkit? FT and EG are pretty easy to spot i guess :P

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

The dev team has been tracking the concern about the Engineer backpacks for quite a while. They understand our players’ point of view, and this is something that a few different team members have discussed for a possible remedy. They’ve batted around a few ideas about how to fix this problem, including some of those mentioned in this thread. (Thanks for all the suggestions – they’re very helpful!)

For example, one designer thought that with new art, we might be able to display the kits on the weapon holsters on the right or left hip, so players could tell what kits are in use while allowing the Engineer to display a sweet back-piece, too. Another suggested that perhaps Gem Store items could simply override the kits, so if you owned a Quaggan Backpack, your character displayed a Quaggan Backpack. (Please note: This doesn’t mean to say that either of these ideas will be the one that is settled upon. I just offered examples so you could see that thoughts and possible solutions definitely have been discussed.)

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

Then why can’t they simply remove the hobos sacs altogether, and allow them to see what kit we are using by what is in our hands? That is exactly how we have to see the weapon other professions are using. The wrench isn’t enough to say tool kit? The FT and EG weapons are distinct as well. All you need to do is make a weapon that looks like a grenade and one like a bomb, and viola. That would appear to me to be a ssolution with minimal man power requirements.

Theoretically, if they’ve been reading this thread, they’ve seen the ‘put things in the player’s hands’ suggestion. It was not mentioned whether those designer ideas (fanny-packs and Gem Store items, because Gem Store items are obviously the exclusive cause of this issue and the plethora of other back items can’t possibly be part of the issue, or a part that needs resolving, as seems to be the viewpoint of Designer were the only ones; it seems safe to imagine that there’s at least a few suggestions from this thread bouncing around.

Gaile Gray.6029:

skullmount — thank you for taking that time, that’s very helpful!

And my apologies, too, for the off-topic conversation here.

ON the topic: I’ll remember this post and if there’s something new on the subject, will update.

Thanks.

As for the hobosacks, whatever the solution is, I hope its optional, because sometimes I do like seeing the kit backpack. Though most times I would rather just see my normal backpiece. It would be kinda cool if we could get/unlock different skins for them though (hopefully not gemstore. Only something we can optionally do to unlock it. Something like the Iron Tailpipe Bandana).

Aethyl.7519:

Hello Gaile. Glad to finally get some feedback, and I thank you for that.

Here are my thoughts about the last news.

And yes, I know those are not the solutions that will be given to us, but I will still give my opinion about it.

> The fix concerning gem-store only backpacks is a big no. Many backpacks are released in that game as IG rewards, sometimes really expensive one (Jetpack, anyone?) and some players build their looks around those backpacks.

If a fix happens, it should concern all backpacks. That’s as simple as that.

> Second idea, the holster one. Not a big fan of it since it’s once again an undyable (that’s the biggest issue, undyable. That color clashes with almost all kind of armors.) piece that will recover the armor we are so proud of. Plus, if the holsters are that little, they won’t even serve their purpose, especially on Asuras, giving them another advantage.

And I will also add that there is already a backpiece completely trashing the prediction purpose of the backpacks, the rucksack, already completely covering backpieces.

-

Here is the best solution exposed in that topic, in my humble opinion :

> Each engineer get a visible boon similar to the attunement of the elementalists when equiped with a kit. Like that, our enemy can see what we are using.

Then, we get a checkbox in our inventory, near our bag. If checked, the engineer backpacks are displayed when using kits, replacing the classical backpiece. If not, they are not displayed, and the classical backpiece/absence of backpiece stays.

If a checkbox is not possible, just give us the attunement solution and get rid of the backpack, maybe releasing the different skins as backpiece skins, free of charge for engineers.

Once again, thanks.

A charr engineer hoping that this issue will finally be resolved.

I’m glad Gaile has looked into this and provided some feedback for us.

I agree with the above poster. Icons similar to the elementalist’s attunement icons seem like the easiest solution, with what would probably be the lease effort of all the solutions since the mechanics already exist in game. It’s a simple, yet elegant solution that addresses the issue of other players being able to tell what kit we are using.

The ‘check box’ to turn kits on or back pieces on coupled with the icons would be a nice touch that allows players who want to allow their kits to be shown to do so and allow players who wish to show their back pieces to do so.

A short sound-clip, similar to what plays when elementalists change attunement, would also help clarity.

Anymras.5729:

A short sound-clip, similar to what plays when elementalists change attunement, would also help clarity.

Probably a bad idea. The quick kit switches that engies do means it’d be a spam of “Grenades! Tools! Grenades! Bombs! Medical Supplies! Grenades! Tools!” Also, recalling all of the voice actors for just a few lines might not be worth it.

All we need is a grenade / bomb in our hands – fixed. No belt, plz – it just ruines the outfit in another way – also think about the clipping issues – will the belt override the mantle or what

No seriously – weapons belong to the HANDS.

replacing the hobosacks with a manpurse is somehow obsolete. no person ever has spotted which kit the engineer uses through backpack visuals ever. changing it to something barely visible doesn’t make any sense at all and i hope nobody will waste any amount of time on designing/coding that.
best solution is the easiest solution: just get rid of it completely (or give us an option to toggle it. coding a function that enables/disables a specific 3d model should be done in less than two hours, hell just copy+modify the function from disabling head/shoulder/hand armor parts. implementing it into the architecture will take longer but it’s not something you can’t do over night. you’re a company, just pay some nerd to pull an all-nighter) and replace hobosacks with icons like the ele has for attunements. this way you just need to remove something and the art team just has to make some 0.5 cm icons instead of completely new 3d models. on top of it being not really much work the whole engineer community will cry tears of joy.
i really wonder how you guys at anet get things done, making full scale projects out of something that’s barely worth a days work for 2-3 people. fantasizing about revolutionary ideas in meetings doesn’t actually get it done.
i still have massive doubts this will ever be resolved and speaking from 2 years of experience with this game (and reading about the ideas the staff has in gailes post) if it will be ever done, it will be done in the most intricate and complicated way, completely missing the point and what the community actually wants.
we want cookies that taste like chocolate. please don’t give us a tower high iced ubercake that tastes like pork …. again. nobody will thank you for your gigantic effort if it’s only a simple solution we want. make your satchels, but don’t expect anyone to be grateful. two seconds after release people will be upset that it clips with probably everything.

do not make things overly complicated, over the top is still a miss.
just my 2 cents

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

This is a disconcerting statement.

Does Anet want a class that can’t participate in many of the LS rewards(backpacks)? Does Anet want a class that can’t participate in a significant portion of end game content (backpack skins)? After 2 years why isn’t this a higher priority? I understand you have big things in the works that take time and man power but you’ve had several of those in the past 2 years. Are they just going to keep throwing other more important things in front of this one? What needs to be done to improve the priority of this?

And no, we can’t see that the team wants to address this situation. You’ve made a handful of posts in the past few days, before that it was how long since someone answered this thread? Anet doesn’t talk enough on this thread for us to know what the team wants.

Torsailr.8456:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

This is a disconcerting statement.

Does Anet want a class that can’t participate in many of the LS rewards(backpacks)? Does Anet want a class that can’t participate in a significant portion of end game content (backpack skins)? After 2 years why isn’t this a higher priority? I understand you have big things in the works that take time and man power but you’ve had several of those in the past 2 years. Are they just going to keep throwing other more important things in front of this one? What needs to be done to improve the priority of this?

And no, we can’t see that the team wants to address this situation. You’ve made a handful of posts in the past few days, before that it was how long since someone answered this thread? Anet doesn’t talk enough on this thread for us to know what the team wants.

To be an advocate for anet, it does seem like they want to stay consistent with what they’ve said in the past regarding kits, namely the backpack is supposed to be a tell for what kit the opponent has equipped.

To be a regular player, it seems dumb. From asura to norn, I never use the backpack to judge what the opponent is using. Each kit has a playstyle, and very obvious attacks and sounds. The first tell is how the enemy moves- Towards you means bomb, grenade, or rarely flamethrower is possibly being equipped. Away or standing still implies toolkit, grenade kit, or E-gun. The second hint is what noise is being made. Hard to describe noise, but each has a distinct sound. If there is no sound, then you can narrow down to toolkit or bomb. What finally gives it away though is just like what gives any weapon away. You either have a ball/gout of fire coming at you, three explosions appear around you, a red circle under your feet, you get yoinked or see “blockedblockedblocked” appear, or a purple dart/green gas hits you in the face. At no point do you try to examine the other player, because you don’t need to. You just react to the incoming attacks and then launch your response. Anyone who says they do otherwise is either lying or a very, very observant player.

Assuming we don’t cater to the <1% of super observant players, there is no PvP reason to show kits. Letting us have the option to hide them is not some super buff to the profession.

For aesthetic continuity, ie the attacks matching the pack, most players don’t care. They want to see the item they earned, not the one that every lowbie auto equips when they start chunking nades.

Creld.8702:

To be an advocate for anet, it does seem like they want to stay consistent with what they’ve said in the past regarding kits, namely the backpack is supposed to be a tell for what kit the opponent has equipped.

To a regular player, it seems dumb.

Agreed. I cannot think of a single time I’ve needed to try to make use of the backpack to identify a kit.

Another vote for “just turn them off”, at the very least until the multiple teams can get together to do whatever complex task is deemed suitable. More players are impacted negatively by having them there than not having them there.

If the “e-sport” thing is a concern, then simply don’t turn them off if the generic look feature is activated in PvP. In any other circumstances, the sheer existence of minimum size Asura renders this discussion basically irrelevant.

zaced.7948:

no person ever has spotted which kit the engineer uses through backpack visuals ever.

dont make unprovable statements like this, it doesnt help us. and this one is false as these typically are.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Gaile’s awesome post…

This is really good to see that we are finally getting somewhere. I really do hope that something happens to fix this. I have so many armor sets that are really neat, but the hobo-sacks just takes away from their awesome look. I know that you mentioned multiple teams are working on high priority projects, but considering this has been going on for two years now, it would be nice if this was pushed up the pipeline. But regardless, thank you for the update.

The first time we got a response regarding it, the priority projects were things that, well, they’ve already completed. Pretty sure nothing’ll change – every time a project is completed, another will come up, and we’ll be stuck with hobosacks until the game dies.

insanemaniac.2456:

zaced.7948:

no person ever has spotted which kit the engineer uses through backpack visuals ever.

dont make unprovable statements like this, it doesnt help us. and this one is false as these typically are.

there’s a simple solution for that: ask an as large number of people as you can, if they have ever looked at the hobosack in order to tell which kind of kit the engineer uses. then tell me what you found out.
over two years i have been in several pvp guilds and talked to a lot of people about this and i have yet to met the person that derives the used kit from the hobosack visuals. the only people that actually knew that different hobosacks existed were engineer-players.

more than one dev post in a single year, make that about a month’s span? lets all die of shock. but seriously, holsters sound good (don’t care if it clips with my pistol, it doesn’t cover my hard-earned backpack anymore, besides i prefer to see my pistol out and shooting at things anyway), but the idea of just making it the gem store backpacks that override the kit backpacks is a horrible idea. as lakdav said much earlier, alot, and we all mean ALOT, of the living world rewards have been back items. again, as lakdav said, it would seem like a horrible money grab, especially since most of the backpacks everyone wants to see instead of their kit backpacks are the LW backpieces.

Edit: and zaced is right, nobody looks at your backpack to see what kit you have, they pay attention to the grenades you’re hurling, bombs you’re dropping, or the jet of flame coming outta the flamethrower-y looking gun you just pulled out of your pocket. if you can’t tell what kit they’re using with those indicators, well, the backpack won’t be much help with figuring that out either. Gotta love a wall of text, apologies >_>

Why does it matter if its gemstore? Just use gold and convert it to gems. The drama about gemstore is so unfunded. What difference does it make if you have to gather a bunch of materials that end up costing a comparable price to the gold to gem thing?
While also wasting more time running around.
Also most gemstore backpieces are actually tradable via TP with some very low prices like a few golds.

robertul.3679:

Why does it matter if its gemstore? Just use gold and convert it to gems. The drama about gemstore is so unfunded. What difference does it make if you have to gather a bunch of materials that end up costing a comparable price to the gold to gem thing?
While also wasting more time running around.
Also most gemstore backpieces are actually tradable via TP with some very low prices like a few golds.

You could say its principle. Other than gem prices fluctuating all the time, It would be bad PR to charge any kind of money, ingame or real, for something that should have been dealt with since release. Also there are backpacks amongst LW rewards that are not gemstore backpacks. I cant care less about quaggan plushy packs, but the blade wing backpacks would be near perfect for my engineer. Something, may i remind everyone, we have already worked for as much as every other class that doesnt have to deal with kit packs.

First picture-how I want to look.

Second picture-how hobo sac makes me look.

robertul.3679:

Why does it matter if its gemstore? Just use gold and convert it to gems. The drama about gemstore is so unfunded. What difference does it make if you have to gather a bunch of materials that end up costing a comparable price to the gold to gem thing?
While also wasting more time running around.
Also most gemstore backpieces are actually tradable via TP with some very low prices like a few golds.

Do other classes need to pay for not having their backpieces replaced by kits?
Nah man… usually im not one to deny the gem store, but this here isnt a gem store thing. New skins for the sacks? Thats on the other hand a different thing, but to have the thing fixed and working certainly doesnt belong anywhere near the gem store.
You afterall dont need to pay for..lets say ele bracers so that they dont overwrite your gloves either.

robertul.3679:

Why does it matter if its gemstore?

that’s not the problem. it’s just that i’d rather have the backpack visuals i actually chose through crafting/looting/buying a specific piece than whatever option anet gives me to override hobosack visuals through the gemshop. i would have no problem with a gemshop item that copies the skin of the backpack i have equipped.
it wouldn’t be a fair solution since there would be a single class that has to pay for something other classes have always had but at this point i don’t care anymore. i just want to see the back piece i have spent weeks or months to get like any other class does.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

The dev team has been tracking the concern about the Engineer backpacks for quite a while. They understand our players’ point of view, and this is something that a few different team members have discussed for a possible remedy. They’ve batted around a few ideas about how to fix this problem, including some of those mentioned in this thread. (Thanks for all the suggestions – they’re very helpful!)

For example, one designer thought that with new art, we might be able to display the kits on the weapon holsters on the right or left hip, so players could tell what kits are in use while allowing the Engineer to display a sweet back-piece, too. Another suggested that perhaps Gem Store items could simply override the kits, so if you owned a Quaggan Backpack, your character displayed a Quaggan Backpack. (Please note: This doesn’t mean to say that either of these ideas will be the one that is settled upon. I just offered examples so you could see that thoughts and possible solutions definitely have been discussed.)
.

And 1.5 year ago :

BillFreist.1527:

Some pretty interesting ideas here. I was actually spit-balling some ideas on how to address this today. This has always been something that has bothered me, too.

For example:

• Have kits respect the existing back item flag. If you have a back item and you want to show it, hide the kit. If you don’t have a back item or choose to hide it, always show the kit. Obviously this makes it a little harder than usual to tell what kit you are using, so:
  • A nameplate icon similar to Elemental Attunements would be a good addition (I may add this regardless if we can get the art )
  • Move the kit somewhere else on your body. I know, crazy right? For example, who doesn’t like a sweet fanny-pack?

so…… nothing new in 1.5 year ? Gaile, do you just repeat what Bill said a long time ago ?

Gaile Gray.6029:

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

BillFreist.1527:

Hopefully this finally gets resolved soon, and I’ll do what I can to see that happen. Keep in mind, as Colin mentioned before, that there are some pretty beefy projects going on that are consuming our engineering time. But that doesn’t exactly mean we can’t sneak stuff in here and there .

-Bill

No comments.

At some point, you have to make a break and fix all the small problems that exist since day 0. Because there are always bigger project that are consuming your engineering time, like LS for example…

robertul.3679:

Why does it matter if its gemstore? Just use gold and convert it to gems. The drama about gemstore is so unfunded. What difference does it make if you have to gather a bunch of materials that end up costing a comparable price to the gold to gem thing?
While also wasting more time running around.
Also most gemstore backpieces are actually tradable via TP with some very low prices like a few golds.

spinal blades (all versions of it), mawdrey (and its other versions), karka shell, koss on koss (and those other books), slickpack, crafting backpacks (ugh but w/e), the balth pvp track back item, the other god back items, quivers………need i go on? THAT’S why opposed to gem store back skins being the only skins to negate kit backpacks. gem store skins are either fluffy backpacks, or the guild banner, and i for one do not want a fluffy quaggan on my back all the time, and while i have the guild banner, i don’t need it on every toon. and as basalt said, do other classes have to pay gems to look how they want (short of needing a gem store skin in the first place)? they do not. and also as lakdav said, its also a matter of principle, you work for these ingame obtainable backpacks, and now they’re saying we can’t use them if we want to use kits, we have to use gemstore only skins? no bloody thank you. as to the gathering materials and such, you worked for it. it became an achievment of sorts, something you could be proud of and say “i did this”. i was estatic when i made the ascended spinal blades, not because i could be a special snowflake, not because i could kill scarlet earlier, but because I made it through my effort. whereas gemstore there’s no effort for you to be proud of.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey all,

The dev team has been tracking the concern about the Engineer backpacks for quite a while. They understand our players’ point of view, and this is something that a few different team members have discussed for a possible remedy. They’ve batted around a few ideas about how to fix this problem, including some of those mentioned in this thread. (Thanks for all the suggestions – they’re very helpful!)

For example, one designer thought that with new art, we might be able to display the kits on the weapon holsters on the right or left hip, so players could tell what kits are in use while allowing the Engineer to display a sweet back-piece, too. Another suggested that perhaps Gem Store items could simply override the kits, so if you owned a Quaggan Backpack, your character displayed a Quaggan Backpack. (Please note: This doesn’t mean to say that either of these ideas will be the one that is settled upon. I just offered examples so you could see that thoughts and possible solutions definitely have been discussed.)

Ultimately, enabling any correction will involve members of several different teams (design, art, programming) and those teams members currently are engaged in other prioritized projects. But as you can see, the team wants to address this situation in the future and we’re grateful for your patience while the team selects the implements the right fix for the issue.

One of the concerns is that the coloring of the hobosacks conflicts with a look a player has put together. For instance, I would like to put my engineer in black and silver (or possibly gold) magitech armor (crossing my fingers that it goes on sale for black friday..hint…hint…*nudges Gaile ). anyway, ALL of the packs will conflict with that because they are brown based. As such, making them some sort of “messenger bag” or toolbelt aesthetic will still have the same issue.

It is my understanding that the reason the devs want to retain some visual of the currently equipped kit is for the sake of pvp. However, with the new standard models that can be toggled on, this is no longer an issue because those standard models will have the back pack on all the time.

Thus, to me at least, the best solution would seem to be to implement a toggle to turn the backpack portion of the kit on or off. The issue I can see with this, since I dont know how the kits were modeled, is if the kit it a single model (backpack and weapon like FT) then the kits would need to be divided into 2 separate models for this to happen. However, I doubt this is the case. Given some of the animations it looks like it would have been more difficult from an animation and programming perspective for them to be a single model.

Also, if backpacks were to override the kit back piece it should be ALL backpacks not just gem store ones. You dont want to discourage a certain class against certain in game items that are not an issue for every other class.

zaced.7948:

insanemaniac.2456:

zaced.7948:

no person ever has spotted which kit the engineer uses through backpack visuals ever.

dont make unprovable statements like this, it doesnt help us. and this one is false as these typically are.

there’s a simple solution for that: ask an as large number of people as you can, if they have ever looked at the hobosack in order to tell which kind of kit the engineer uses. then tell me what you found out.
over two years i have been in several pvp guilds and talked to a lot of people about this and i have yet to met the person that derives the used kit from the hobosack visuals. the only people that actually knew that different hobosacks existed were engineer-players.

i dont have to, because ive done it before. there. disproven. yes its probably because i main engi. but your claim is just plain invalid.

do i do it often? no, usually the engi is attacking, which makes it immediately obvious what kit hes in and is a far simpler tell. but every once in a while i have an ally who isnt attacking that has my attention and a kit equipped and yes i can tell the difference at a glance. even between bomb and tool kits.

That Guy.5704:

One of the concerns is that the coloring of the hobosacks conflicts with a look a player has put together.

This is pretty much my main concern with engineer kits summed up. All of my characters are so colour-coordinated it puts the Power Rangers to shame, to the point where I use the same colour weapons as my clothes, which are the same colour as my hair and eyes. While my pink Engineer can certainly run around with pink pistols, once I’m in a kit, I’ve got a big blob of brown sticking out.

I’d much prefer a complete toggle on/off (with replacement by a normal backpack for those who use them) than just displacing where the brown blob is. I could live with flamethrower/elixir gun being mismatched, but not a brown blob.

That Guy.5704:

One of the concerns is that the coloring of the hobosacks conflicts with a look a player has put together.

This. This so much. I’m posting my Engi here now. Not to brag, but to show the unfair situation the entire class has been put in and maybe help those who are hesitant to make a legendary just because of the hobosack. I have almost 95% of my entire time in GW2 spent on my Engi. I love playing it. that’s why I went as far as making 2 legendaries for her. The first pic is my engi in all her glory. Quip, Flameseeker Prophecies, and Light of Dwayna. The second pic is with the Engineer kit. Clipping into the back of my head and even my thin medium armor.

To those saying you need the kits too see what the engineer is doing:
Can you even tell which kit I’m using?

I always wondered why Elementalists dont have ‘kits’ that cover their weapons and back when they switch attunements. their mechanics are fairly identical. I’m so jealous that they have the freedom of showing off their weapons and skins with 100% uptime. When I’m playing my Engineer I use pistol 2,3 and then go back to grenade and bomb kit. I’m allowed to see my legendary aura and shield for TWO WHOLE SECONDS.

Why can’t we have an icon on our buff bar like Elementalists instead of these back skins forced onto us? At least give us the option to disable the back skins or let our current back piece override it. This thread is over a year old. We’ve been beating this dead horse for so long. Please please please. Help us.

for the love of everything hip mounted kits for sure, I’d much rather have something that made me still feel like I was an engineer without ruining the time/gems I’ve put into looking cool, after that we just need some military styled pants (with pockets because I need somewhere to put all my gadgets) and a lab coat and we are set.

ukuni.8745:

for the love of everything hip mounted kits for sure, I’d much rather have something that made me still feel like I was an engineer without ruining the time/gems I’ve put into looking cool, after that we just need some military styled pants (with pockets because I need somewhere to put all my gadgets) and a lab coat and we are set.

… i beg to differ with the “just a coat and pockets”. If it would be after me and my wishes engineers would have a bit more “beef” to them…apperance wise

I think the “hobo sacks” are an aesthetic that fit Engineers well if you dress your engineer with steam-punk armor. I never thought about it being bad.

That is UNTIL I saw Ender’s armor example. The backpack certainly doesn’t fit that armor.

So if every Engineer is going to have different armor and different dyes, how do you fix engineer packs in a way that it will work for every character?

How about:
A. Add pack dye channels for engineers.
B. Redesign pack models to be more attractive.
C. Have a few different pack themes: Each theme tailored to a different aesthetic. (i.e. a plant theme or a metal theme. All engineers wear medium armor so you really only need the themes to fit the spectrum of medium armor aesthetics)
D. Back items can override packs BUT engineers have a visible graphic somewhere above or near their head to make it apparent they are wielding a pack, regardless of whether or not their packs are overridden by back items. (Possibly a different glowing icon for each pack type?)
E. All of the above

bump you won’t hide on 2nd page … >:(

clock since the last red post is set to 13 days…
oh well, here we go.
bump.