Guild Wars 2

Drael.2015:

-more snips-

If the trap heal seems difficult, then you probably shouldn’t use it. I likely won’t if I find the risk to reward isn’t sufficient for my needs.

Adequate is viable.

We really don’t have much to talk about right now, so waiting for the stream to hit would be the most prudent choice. Then, once we have the information, we can complain if we so choose. I seriously doubt Anet (or any company) would intentionally spend time and money on something that would be less useful overall than what was currently offered. Even if you don’t like bows or traps, I’m sure the new spec will offer something for everyone, like those virtue changes for one.

Nike.2631:

The Dragon Hunter, in-setting, is something NEW. A direct response to the threat of our age. While players will forge their own path with these tools, the people who developed these techniques did so for one purpose: to resist the Elder Dragons.

Ah, here’s the thing. The lore itself does not lend much credence to that idea. What the lore suggests is that giant armies of magical technology is what will bring down the elder dragons. So far our fights with almost all of the dragon champions and Zhaitan have required never required specialized dragonhunters but lasers, cannons, tanks, air ships, and everything else apart from bows, traps, and people who can sprout wings when jumping.

Genesis.8572:

Ah, here’s the thing. The lore itself does not lend much credence to that idea. What the lore suggests is that giant armies of magical technology is what will bring down the elder dragons. So far our fights with almost all of the dragon champions and Zhaitan have required never required specialized dragonhunters but lasers, cannons, tanks, air ships, and everything else apart from bows, traps, and people who can sprout wings when jumping.

Ah, but have we seen what will happen once Dragon Hunters become prolific in the world of tyria? We haven’t yet seen what their effect will be on hunting and killing dragons. How would the lore help us when this is a new thing that has been created as a direct response to the Elder Dragon threat? What Dragon Hunters are we going to look to in Tyrias history to tell us how the future battles might go?

Ghotistyx.6942:

Ah, but have we seen what will happen once Dragon Hunters become prolific in the world of tyria? We haven’t yet seen what their effect will be on hunting and killing dragons. How would the lore help us when this is a new thing that has been created as a direct response to the Elder Dragon threat? What Dragon Hunters are we going to look to in Tyrias history to tell us how the future battles might go?

This technology was created as a direct response to the dragons too. This magical-technological has taken down several champions and an elder dragon. Why are dragonhunters needed again? What do they even bring to the war effort? Just a name that could easily belong to any other profession.

Genesis.8572:

So far our fights with almost all of the dragon champions and Zhaitan have required never required specialized dragonhunters but lasers, cannons, tanks, air ships, …

While this whole hi-tech army thing worked for Zhaitan, not so much for Mordremoth. Remember what happened at the end of Living Story Season 2? Total destruction of the pact fleet?

Whatever names of the specialisations of each class are, they are clearly tied to the story of HoT expansion.

For example, the lore of Dragonhunter could play out something like below. I also believe Braham will become a Dragonhunter (just like Kasmeer will become Chronomancer)

So now the survivors of our once-mighty armies are scattered in the Maguuma Jungle, barely surviving the hostile environments as they look around to collect scrap metals and build makeshift weapons to defend themselves.

For those guardians who rather not accepting this humiliating defeat, but look inside themselves and draw the power from their VERY VIRTUES to create weapons (Spear, Wings and Shield) so that they could carry on their mission to protect Tyria.
Not only that, these guardians also “have the balls” (i mean courage and resolve) to solemnly take a vow to hunt down dragons as their lifelong mission and thus take on the name Dragonhunter (similar to Crusader class lore in Diablo 3 expansion).

Bows and traps are reasonable choices as they learn to combat in jungle areas and it fits the hunting theme.

I admit that i was taken aback and had my “WTF” moment when the name was first revealed too. but the more i read into it and listened to other people views while keeping an open mind, i think Anet being very creative here and made a good spin on the normal mmo archetype.

After all, its a fantasy game and your imagination can carry you far and help you get over this whole name hate burden.

keenlam.4753:

While this whole hi-tech army thing worked for Zhaitan, not so much for Mordremoth wasn’kitten Remember what happened at the end of Living Story 2? Total destruction of the pact fleet?

A big part of that also involved the sylvari infiltrators though.

For example, this lore could play out something like below:
So now the survivors of our once-mighty armies are scattered in the Maguuma Jungle, barely surviving the hostile environments as they look around to collect scrap metals and build makeshift weapons to defend themselves.

For those guardians who rather not accepting this humiliating defeat, but look inside themselves and draw the power from their VERY VIRTUES to create weapons (Spear, Wings and Shield) so that they could carry on their mission to protect Tyria.
Not only that, these guardians also “have the balls” (i mean courage and resolve) to solemnly take a vow to hunt down dragons as their lifelong mission and thus take on the name Dragonhunter (similar to Crusader class lore in Diablo 3 expansion).
Bows and traps are reasonable choices as they learn to combat in jungle areas and it fits the hunting theme.

Or they could have taken the name ‘Crusader’ since they are on a crusade against the dragons?

1) You clearly are not familiar with the Diablo 3 Crusader class lore at all, if you think that what you described is similar to the D3 Crusader.

2) What is stopping rangers from “having balls” and vowing to hunt down the dragons as their lifelong mission? Is it just because they are getting druids? “Sorry, Pact survivors. We rangers can’t hunt dragons now, y’all, since we’re sitting this out as druids this expansion.”

I admit that i was taken aback and had my “WTF” moment when the name was first revealed too. but the more i read into it and listened to other people views while keeping an open mind, i think Anet being very creative here and made a good spin on the normal mmo archetype.

Because dragon-hunters are a new archetype in fantasy? Don’t make me laugh. Holy knights killing dragons is old hat.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I don’t hear you complaining about Warrior’s name when “everyone is fighting a war against the dragons”. To use another game as an example, Diablo 3 has Demon Hunters despite everyone killing demons at some point in the game. There’s plenty of potential inspiration for how the Guardian elite spec became Dragon Hunter, and surely people haven’t been exposed to enough of it with the stances they’re taking. I’ll say it again, a lot of the concepts mechanically and thematically were likely taken from Dragoons, Monster Hunter, and DnD. Dragon Hunters were seemingly formed as a SWAT team against the dragons. A more specialized and highly trained force to deal with the larger problems of everyday Tyrian life. We haven’t really seen anything from the other professions suggesting that they’ve decided to specialize against the Elder Dragons, Mesmers are fiddling with Time and another is going to be doing a whole lot of yelling. Who knows how effective that’ll be… I mean, it worked for the Dovahkiin, but he’s probably more of the exception than the rule.

And who’s to say the Dragon Hunters aren’t the best at what they do? Are you referencing the mechanics of not just the Guardian spec that hasn’t been released, but every other profession and spec which we still know so little of? They haven’t even released the traits for the Chronomancer, let alone the other specs or even the final numbers for all the proposed trait changes of the base classes. What kind of time traveling sorcery did you use to gain that information?

There seems to be an awful lot of name hate coming from a guy named Talonblaze

I don’t hear you complaining about Guardians when everyone is “defending Tyria” either. The difference being? Each class “specializes”. A warrior is obviously specialized in war tactics and combat. Guardians are protectors and users of light.

Never played Diablo 3 so I can’t say much. Is the Demon Hunter better at killing demons? Yes? Then good, its keeping its namesake in check, its specialized.
No? Then it fails in comparison of being a specialized class. My argument wouldn’t change there. If a Paladin is a better Demon Hunter than a “Demon Hunter” then yes, it fails.

What concepts? What mechanically and thematically makes them a dragon hunter? The only dragon thematic skill is the elite. As mentioned, that does not make it solely so. I’ve played alot of D&D and guess what? Most classes that actually were Dragon Hunting themed were actually gosh…. specialized at killing dragons! (Mind you, generally terrible at anything else.) They did extra damage to Dragons and minions, or had dragon inspired abilities. Neither of these are present.

Do you honestly think a “Dragon Hunter” is going to be any more efficient in say, the Zhaitan fights? Teq? Shatterer? Even Mordemoth? The answer is no. They would not pidgeonhole an entire specialization on a few cinematic fights. If they aren’t more efficient at tracking, hunting, killing dragons. What good are they? If they were “Champion Hunters” it would make sense for the “big-game” foes to encompass more than just dragons. But they aren’t.

Mechanically? Does Teq trigger traps? No? Oh right he’s a static object. Shatterer? Same deal. The traps can’t even touch Zhaitan so enjoy firing cannon 1 like the other classes.
That’s even IF they did have specialized abilities, their capabilities fall flat if you try and use it for even their intended purpose.

Don’t get me wrong. Do I like the bow? Sure.
Traps? Whilst I probably won’t use them, I’m not against them.
Profession mechanics? whilst hit and miss, have uses.

But there is a complete lack of what makes this role even defined other than flavourful text. Traps don’t make you a dragon hunter. A bow doesn’t make you a dragon hunter. Angelic wings don’t make you a dragon hunter.
Being more specialized and effective at killing dragons compared to the common Warrior or Guardian, is what makes you a Dragon Hunter.

So I know a lot of people already hate dragonhunter, but doesn’t it make sense in a way? Just because it is a dragonhunter doesn’t mean they can only hunt dragons, but is capable to hunt them with the tools? A frontal block, a spear that does constant dmg in range, a move to get in range to swap to a melee in addition to meditations, a longbow attack to destroy projectiles, and the option of traps to fight the minions of the dragons. All in all, doesn’t it sound like they gave the guardian the tools to fight the dragons, especially with the wyvern they showed that flies around?

There is a pretty huge difference between expanding a class thematically in a cool way and simply forcing the RP element too far for the sake of marketing purposes. I mean I know its a video game and we all play for entertainment but at the end of the day some people really spend a lot of time in the forums and in game trying to give feedback on improving the professions.

Also a big part of what might made things confusing for the players and the devs is the “complexity” or better yet the unhealthy mix of what the guardian tries to be.
Sure, there were complains about the lack of a real long range weapon, mobility, CC and more conditions but it also maters in which form you deliver those.

Simply put the way all our feedback was taken by the devs feelt like it was received in a totally diferent way that imo created a departure from the GW2 profession theme.

There is a huge difference in the way Mesmer has kept it’s flavor in the elite specialization compared to the first impression “Dragonhunter” delivered. Which in my case was a very weird read.

Of course I will watch the Ready Up and hope for non gimmicky mechanics. The name is really bad tough, too try hard, desperate marketing to keep the hype for HoT alive.

P.S. Rip English.

Morsus.5106:

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”

You’re putting words in a lot of other players mouths.

Nope. It’s what the community wanted since 2012.

Not counting countless more nudges in PvP General and PvE forums saying we lacked range weapons. The same goes for lack of Conditions, CC, and Peels. We’re actually getting exactly what we asked for with the exception of Traps. Even then, some people wanted snares too in one of the above links.

Goes to show voice really matters and Anet truly did come through with a lot of the things we’ve wanted.

I myself am estatic with the change, as are a lot of Guardians.

I don’t think the problem people have is with getting a freaking longbow. Guardians wanted a longbow and it will be usefull. The problem is traps are generally really bad (muddy terrain is the only one I see used at all tbh) and the devs already said they are getting nerfed to have a “warm up” period so they are going to get worse.

Combine this with cheesy name and the whole thing feels like whoever developed this did the least amount of work possible and just tacked on crappy mechanics that don’t fit in any way with the guardian profession.

TL;DR People that main Guardian feel this specialization shows a supreme amount of lazyness from Anet.

i only hope that the pvp meta will change a bit to fit in the new specialization or else guardian with range condi dmg will be left out as almost every condi class/build out there

so far we saw
revenenat with condi and some hybrid dmg with nice control and cc
mesmer with new unique ability to control time and huge buff to power and condi build
guardian with new ability for range condi dmg and some trap unseen abilities (probably boon, cc, and condi)

so as some mention before each class will get new ability which were lacking
will they be valuable in all game type areas? only chronomancer knows

Aaron.4807:

I don’t think the problem people have is with getting a freaking longbow. Guardians wanted a longbow and it will be usefull. The problem is traps are generally really bad (muddy terrain is the only one I see used at all tbh) and the devs already said they are getting nerfed to have a “warm up” period so they are going to get worse.

Combine this with cheesy name and the whole thing feels like whoever developed this did the least amount of work possible and just tacked on crappy mechanics that don’t fit in any way with the guardian profession.

TL;DR People that main Guardian feel this specialization shows a supreme amount of lazyness from Anet.

Ironically enough, Muddy Terrain is not a trap, but a survival skill.

That aside, I also have to agree that this feels lazy. The chronomancer feels different from anything else, yet despite the mechanical and thematic differences it still feels distinctly mesmer.

The Dragonhunter gives the vibe that Anet just had a conversation that probably played out a bit like this:
“Okay, these guys want ranged weapons and conditions. How can we give that to them?”
“Rangers have ranged weapons and conditions. Let’s take stuff from them and give it to guardians!”

It feels SO out of place, and way too similar to what we already have with rangers. Having blue light effects instead of spikes is not going to change the fact that it’s still a bow build with traps, which is something we can already play without having to play a dragonhunter.

When people said that they wanted guardians to have good ranged capabilities and condition builds, I’m pretty sure the idea in most peoples’ heads was something that would still feel distinctly like a guardian. From what we’ve seen so far, this looks more like a ranger than a guardian, and I don’t think any guardian players really wanted that. Maybe some will embrace the direction being taken, but I doubt it’s truly what anyone was looking for in regards to the new spec.

#the turkinator
#the turkeyhunter

Black Box.9312:

Aaron.4807:

I don’t think the problem people have is with getting a freaking longbow. Guardians wanted a longbow and it will be usefull. The problem is traps are generally really bad (muddy terrain is the only one I see used at all tbh) and the devs already said they are getting nerfed to have a “warm up” period so they are going to get worse.

Combine this with cheesy name and the whole thing feels like whoever developed this did the least amount of work possible and just tacked on crappy mechanics that don’t fit in any way with the guardian profession.

TL;DR People that main Guardian feel this specialization shows a supreme amount of lazyness from Anet.

Ironically enough, Muddy Terrain is not a trap, but a survival skill.

LOL. So, I was wrong then. I don’t know of any traps used in any game mode besides a minor roaming build for wvw.

DESIGNING THINGS!

We have no idea how the traps will work, they may do burst damage and also buff allies in range, that would be pretty amazing.

I’m betting that DH traps will combo pretty nicely with ranger traps in WvW, though. Pirateship with lots of traps… seems likely to me.

There is already a burning trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a poison trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a bleeding/cripple trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a chill trap, probably wont be that.
There is already an immobile/bleeding/poison trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a summon trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a KD trap, probably wont be that.
There is already a shadow step trap, probably wont be that.

Since that is most of the conditions, I’m thinking that the traps will be bursty, which will be awesome really.

So roughly they’ll turn guardian into a petless ranger. Rangers will be happy xD

As someone said, we don’t really know what Dragonhunters traps mechanic is going to be. I mean, I think it won’t be something like “Causes bleeding and cripple to foes”, as rangers already have those kinds of traps.
That’s why I think (and hope) that we’ll get something unique through traps and not a simple copy/paste. I don’t even know what, but something which fit well the Dragonhunter style, and gameplay.

I’m betting that DH traps will combo pretty nicely with ranger traps in WvW, though. Pirateship with lots of traps… seems likely to me.

Genesis.8572:

Nike.2631:

The Dragon Hunter, in-setting, is something NEW. A direct response to the threat of our age. While players will forge their own path with these tools, the people who developed these techniques did so for one purpose: to resist the Elder Dragons.

Ah, here’s the thing. The lore itself does not lend much credence to that idea. What the lore suggests is that giant armies of magical technology is what will bring down the elder dragons. So far our fights with almost all of the dragon champions and Zhaitan have required never required specialized dragonhunters but lasers, cannons, tanks, air ships, and everything else apart from bows, traps, and people who can sprout wings when jumping.

You realize A ) those techno armies you speak of are now spread thinly over the Meguma jungle and on fire and B ) People have been fighting the great evils of their age with luminous wings popping out of their back for a long time now in Tyria …

Sure, there’s no Dragonhunter training camp on the maps we have now, but we have a lot of new space opening up at the same moment they actually become playable…

Talonblaze.3175:

I don’t hear you complaining about Guardians when everyone is “defending Tyria” either.

B-but… I’m not complaining.

Dragon Hunting is still the Guardian’s elite spec, regardless of if something is or is not performed better or worse. National Athletes are physical freaks, but we don’t expect them to do our heavy labor jobs, because there are people that specialize in sporting and people that specialize in heavy labor. Flavor text is all it really is, the same way we might tell ourselves we specialize in X activity as opposed to Y. Its the bows, traps, and mechanical changes combined with the flavor text that make the Dragon Hunter what it is, the same way we might walk into university and people tell us “this is how professors teach”. Is it the most effective way? Maybe not, but its how those professors teach, and they’ve specialized in that format.

This isn’t even reaching the topic of gameplay mechanics being disjointed from lore. As a Guardian, you probably expect to guard things, but the more popular of specs are either teleporting, bursty damage dealers, or somewhat selfish self-sustainers. There’s not much guarding being done in those instances.

Anyway, I think we’ve seen enough of both sides to be at peace in this discussion. I prefer to end things on a good note rather than a poor one, which often happens when things outlast their purpose.

arkealia.2713:

So roughly they’ll turn guardian into a petless ranger. Rangers will be happy xD

Or thieves with longer range.

Wait, thieves have traps, too?! #mindblown #illuminati #teef

Saiyan.1704:

Morsus.5106:

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”

You’re putting words in a lot of other players mouths.

Nope. It’s what the community wanted since 2012.

Wanting ranged weaponry

hide spoiler

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Lack-of-decent-range-damage/first#post1509583
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Do-Guardians-lack-viable-ranged-options/first#post2726043
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guarding-seriously-needs-a-dedicated-long-range-dps-weapon/page/2#post676379
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/lack-of-WvW-roles-and-possible-solutions/first#post201010
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Range-with-Gaurdian-does-it-worth-it
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardians-Need-Range
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/more-range-weapons-pls
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/No-real-ranged-weapon-for-Guardians
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/We-ask-for-range-buffs-but-we-get-nerfed/first#post329837
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardians-Melee-Range-Mobility-Discussion
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Suggestion-Guardian-Longbow

Not counting countless more nudges in PvP General and PvE forums saying we lacked range weapons. The same goes for lack of Conditions, CC, and Peels. We’re actually getting exactly what we asked for with the exception of Traps. Even then, some people wanted snares too in one of the above links.

Goes to show voice really matters and Anet truly did come through with a lot of the things we’ve wanted.

I myself am estatic with the change, as are a lot of Guardians.

This guy beat me to it.

Guardians asked for:

- Better ranged options
- More interesting virtues
- Not being locked into a single spec
- Viable condi builds
- CC
- Ability to disengage or run away in WvW

Guardians are getting
- Longbow with fast moving projectiles (aka can’t strafe)
- More interesting virtues
- More trait options, such as medi longbow, or Shoutbow support for WvW
- Traps providing bleed, aka a possible condi build
- Long range snares through traps and bow
- Runes of the trapper providing stealth and super speed.

Also seems to me like we are getting EVERYTHING we asked for. So i would hush and wait till the stream

lighter.2708:

it’s never meant to be OP and completely dominate anything existing.

It also shouldn’t be too underpowered, like most current traps are. Now that I’ve seen some of the skills in action, I think they’ll be able to hold their own in groups, but still have some questions as to whether it will hold up to the current Guardian abilities.

Email me ingame … I can send you salt to make eating hats more tolerable.

The name doesn’t make sense.
LB looks ok and virtues look nice.

Traps?They make no sense on a guard but they look cool enough if you just call them wards.

Just change the name to something other than hunter Pls!

You have 3s stability on a 4s cooldown.

Easy access to cripple on your auto in group fights

An interrupt (knockback) every 7s if you melee with your longbow … which does just as good damage in melee as it does at range

A cripple every knockback … so do please melee with that longbow … no real reason not to.

I think you can get over the “name” issue with “Dragonhunter” and “Traps” /eyeroll.