Guardians.. a supporty class is getting more… active support?
Guards get a longbow.
Class Mechanic (Virtues) changed. Burning Virtue now .. Burns more! Healing Virtue now grants a leap along with its heal, making it .. Less accurate? Aegis virtue creates a shield that shelters allies from all damage; can’t really hate on that one it’s pretty tight.
Traps! Made of light! Sorta like symbols but now more Ranger-esque!
Sorry guards, but nothing here is really all that impressive at first glance, hopefully the stream tomorrow will shed more light (get it? get it!?!) on this elite specialization. The Chronomancer spec seems like a much more dramatic change of style from core Mesmer than Hunter does for Guardian.
One down.. Six more to go! Who do you think will have the coolest specialization? I’m betting Necros may give us a run for our money. Dat Greatsword.
Chaos, there isn’t enough salt here … not salt from tears but salt to really rub in the wound ;-)
Though … they might rub it back in our eyes after tomorrow’s PoI :-p
I’m hoping to see the most come out for Necromancer, Ranger, and Mesmer … Engineer and Thief following behind us … Warrior, Guard, and Ele can give the rest of us a turn.
Mesmer, Necromancer, and Ranger are not considered “top picks” in any part of the meta except Mesmer for speed run records (thank you, Time Warp) and Necro for GWEN … both of which they are almost an afterthought in the meta.
Engineer and Thief are desirable in sPvP … even sometimes doubled up on there … they are also desired in some PvE speed run metas … in WvW though, they don’t fit into the GWEN meta.
Elementalist … so desireable in all parts of the game that it’s doubled up on in the 5-man content (PvE and sPvP) …
Warrior … also desirable in all parts of the game … just not doubled up on.
Guardian … also desirable in all parts of the game … just not doubled up on.
NOTE 1: the Specialization changes and the nerf to Ele summoned weapons could shake this all up … that’s my hope … though I’d want all classes closer to “in the meta” as opposed to just swapping in/out what’s “meta”.
NOTE 2: I know that “meta” isn’t everything … but there are reasons (many proven via actual math/logic/facts) why certain classes are/aren’t part of a given meta.
NOTE 3: I enjoy the heck out of my Ranger (not really top-dog of any meta) and my Mesmer in all 3 game modes.
I think people keep forgetting that the devs said they’d be revamping Ranger spirits and traps and other posts have discussed improved AI for HoT … so we might all get blown out of the water by the Ranger love … I wouldn’t mind that … it’s my other GW2 baby
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
guard demand condi dmg and they get one with traps from range as close range probably were too powerful.
necro i bet be par with mesmer specialization
warrior will be boring as guardian
thief with rifle will get more qq
ele mmm…
ranger will be support now with staff? so guardian become ranger and ranger become guardian?!
engi probably will have nice cool things also
Guardians.. a supporty class is getting more… active support?
Guards get a longbow.
Class Mechanic (Virtues) changed. Burning Virtue now .. Burns more! Healing Virtue now grants a leap along with its heal, making it .. Less accurate? Aegis virtue creates a shield that shelters allies from all damage; can’t really hate on that one it’s pretty tight.
Traps! Made of light! Sorta like symbols but now more Ranger-esque!
Sorry guards, but nothing here is really all that impressive at first glance, hopefully the stream tomorrow will shed more light (get it? get it!?!) on this elite specialization. The Chronomancer spec seems like a much more dramatic change of style from core Mesmer than Hunter does for Guardian.
One down.. Six more to go! Who do you think will have the coolest specialization? I’m betting Necros may give us a run for our money. Dat Greatsword.
Is coolness objective? So it is a fact that chronomancer is cooler?
DH is still way open for interpretation as we know almost nothing yet. Their virtues being changed on active is a huge buff and boost and they still maintain their passive effects. Longbow is looking to be great range damage and support if taken with symbolic avenger.
We will see tomorrow what the skills actually are before claiming ourselves champions.
I post from a phone so please excuse any references to ducks or any other auto corrections.
So now they’re hosting it on Ready-Up. Maybe they realized how unconventional it was to do it on POI. Silly Anet.
eta- to stay on topic, guardian has always been underwhelming to me. It lacks a certain novelty. Hopefully the specialization makes them more bad kitten …
I don’t know about effective, but the business about active virtues makes it sound more fun than the existing Guardian. Was thinking of deleting mine to make another Mesmer instead. But maybe now I won’t.
Very strange guardian spec, and the name is… well… I can think of many better names, most of which have already been suggested by other people in suitable threads. I hope they change the name to something better.
Hopefully we won’t feel the wrath of all the angry guards.
It’d be misdirected.
Anyway, guard was never cool. Guards are like a box of weebix. They’re cerial, you eat them, you keep a box in the cupboard, but you generaly don’t choose to get them out for breakfast. There’s usually something better to have, whether it be a more enjoyable cerial (Mesmer) or honey on toast (warrior). Why would a specialization change that? Giving weetbix a longbow…. its still weetbix.
Chaos, there isn’t enough salt here … not salt from tears but salt to really rub in the wound ;-)
Though … they might rub it back in our eyes after tomorrow’s PoI :-p
I’m hoping to see the most come out for Necromancer, Ranger, and Mesmer … Engineer and Thief following behind us … Warrior, Guard, and Ele can give the rest of us a turn.
Mesmer, Necromancer, and Ranger are not considered “top picks” in any part of the meta except Mesmer for speed run records (thank you, Time Warp) and Necro for GWEN … both of which they are almost an afterthought in the meta.
Engineer and Thief are desirable in sPvP … even sometimes doubled up on there … they are also desired in some PvE speed run metas … in WvW though, they don’t fit into the GWEN meta.
Elementalist … so desireable in all parts of the game that it’s doubled up on in the 5-man content (PvE and sPvP) …
Warrior … also desirable in all parts of the game … just not doubled up on.
Guardian … also desirable in all parts of the game … just not doubled up on.
NOTE 1: the Specialization changes and the nerf to Ele summoned weapons could shake this all up … that’s my hope … though I’d want all classes closer to “in the meta” as opposed to just swapping in/out what’s “meta”.
NOTE 2: I know that “meta” isn’t everything … but there are reasons (many proven via actual math/logic/facts) why certain classes are/aren’t part of a given meta.
NOTE 3: I enjoy the heck out of my Ranger (not really top-dog of any meta) and my Mesmer in all 3 game modes.
I think people keep forgetting that the devs said they’d be revamping Ranger spirits and traps and other posts have discussed improved AI for HoT … so we might all get blown out of the water by the Ranger love … I wouldn’t mind that … it’s my other GW2 baby
If they make the Druid a nature spellcaster with plant pets and permanent spirits, I’m switching to one faster than you can say Chronomancer. Won’t even be a contest.
I have to say I agree. I kinda feel for them. The name is just terrible, doesn’t thematically fit the class at all. I’m really surprised this was ever suggested, and then actually picked by the Anet team.
Whenever I think about what a Guardian is, and has been in this game up to this point, there certainly never came to mind a picture of a “big game hunter.” Even in the video, the Guardian looks woefully out of place. (Engineer or Warrior might have fit that role a little better.)
I’ve never thought of a big game hunter as virtuous…quite the opposite. :P I guess “Dragonslayer” would have made a little more sense thematically, but “Dragonhunter” and a Guardians with bows? It simply just doesn’t fit my image of a Guardian.
And to add insult to injury, it looks kinda weak as well…but I’ll probably eat those words come tomorrow! ;-) (I guess the AoE immob + light-beam-volley looked like it might be fun!)
And to add insult to injury, it looks kinda weak as well…but I’ll probably eat those words come tomorrow! ;-) (I guess the AoE immob + light-beam-volley looked like it might be fun!)
Yeah, that’s the thing. It doesn’t look flashy, but it could still be pretty fun to play.
I’ve always liked the “few huge attacks” style of combat over “lots and lots of attacks” style, even though the former is always woefully underpowered in every game system I’ve ever played. So, yeah, I’m still really curious to see what the full picture looks like.
I actually found it more interesting that chronomancer. I was worried after they announced mesmer F5 that all elite specs would just get an extra Fn ability and they would call it a day. This shows they are willing to really shake stuff up and rework the Fn abilities.
If the Spear of Justice works as a combo of the current traited F1 as well as the guardian GS#5 shackle, this will be a really fun ability that will spam/stack burning as well as condi based “shackle” as well. Scepter/Torch will still probably be my long range setup for guard but the Fn mechanics truly shakes up the play style of the class even if you stick with the old weapons. The mesmer shield/F5 don’t really give me that feeling for mesmer. It’s cool but just doubling up on the same.
Scepter/Torch will still probably be my long range setup for guard but the Fn mechanics truly shakes up the play style of the class even if you stick with the old weapons. The mesmer shield/F5 don’t really give me that feeling for mesmer. It’s cool but just doubling up on the same.
Right, exactly. Regardless of what you think about the bow or traps, Dragonhunter still gets a totally new set of Virtues to play with.
I don’t know, feels like the combo “few hard hitting” and “projectiles” might be way too easy to counter. The new virtues look quite interesting.
The thing I’m most interested about is to see if they manage to split the “support” role from the “frontline” role in WvW. That might change the meta a lot: frontline guardians could run GS+hammer and support guardians (LB+Staff) would only join them on regroups for empowers and run longbow for damage and support with Zealot and Valkyrie gear… That would leave some spots in the frontline for Revenants…
Not mind-blowing as Chronomancer, but interesting.
Maybe Anet gave them proportionally less because they actually realized Guardians are already unarguably the best profession in the game, indispensable and godlike in every type of content.
But I doubt it. Anet being Anet, it no doubt just happened that way randomly.
Just as a sidenote… do you think alacrity is what anet meant with “making up” for the lack of new weapon skills? It seems that every class gets 1 new weapon, a new set of utilities, and an extension to their class functionality. I haven’t seen the analogy for alacrity on the Dragon Hunter (lol at the name) yet. Guess we have to wait and see.
Anet hates [your class], since [other classes] got buffs while [your class] only received nerfs.
guard demand condi dmg and they get one with traps from range as close range probably were too powerful.
necro i bet be par with mesmer specialization
warrior will be boring as guardian
thief with rifle will get more qq
ele mmm…
ranger will be support now with staff? so guardian become ranger and ranger become guardian?!
engi probably will have nice cool things also
Attachments:
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
We’ve gotten shield and a lame name (granted “dragon hunter” is even lamer).
On paper our spec. looks at least more fun than the guard’s.
We’re not much better off than them though.
We’ve gotten shield and a lame name (granted “dragon hunter” is even lamer).
On paper our spec. looks at least more fun than the guard’s.
We’re not much better off than them though.
We’ve gotten shield and a lame name (granted “dragon hunter” is even lamer).
On paper our spec. looks at least more fun than the guard’s.
We’re not much better off than them though.
How is chronomancer a lame name?
Yeah! No kidding!
It’s certainly leaps and bounds better then Dragon Hunter on a virtue/justice based Paladin-like class. Check Google Images for “Dragon Hunter” and you get the answer to what most-people think of when they hear that term. I don’t see a lot of that looking like your fairy-winged do-gooder in that video! ;-)
Not to mention that a bow doesn’t really fit that theme either. A big-kitten crossbow maybe, but not a plain Longbow. Ever hear of a LB taking down a dragon? I mean Bard tried it, and saw where that got him! Didn’t do squat until he broke the bow in half, turned it into a ballista MacGyver style, and shot a big heavy dwarven arrow in just the one weak spot the dragon had! Sounds to me like Guardians should have gotten 2h lances. :P
Chronomancer not only sounds good, but fits the Mesmer perfectly. (And GI agrees! )
I don’t know about you guys but I find the idea of a guy with a bow shooting spears of light pretty awesome. Not to mention wings and a rework of all their class mechanics.
I’d take it over “durr I block attack, it’s like offhand sword but better” any day.
Hopefully we won’t feel the wrath of all the angry guards.
It’d be misdirected.
Anyway, guard was never cool. Guards are like a box of weebix. They’re cerial, you eat them, you keep a box in the cupboard, but you generaly don’t choose to get them out for breakfast. There’s usually something better to have, whether it be a more enjoyable cerial (Mesmer) or honey on toast (warrior). Why would a specialization change that? Giving weetbix a longbow…. its still weetbix.
It takes great resolve to stick to wheatabix and you’re rewarded for a stable diet in the long term.
I hope this gives others the courage to follow suit in the zealous fight against lower GI problems.
We’ve gotten shield and a lame name (granted “dragon hunter” is even lamer).
On paper our spec. looks at least more fun than the guard’s.
We’re not much better off than them though.
How is chronomancer a lame name?
Yeah! No kidding!
It’s certainly leaps and bounds better then Dragon Hunter on a virtue/justice based Paladin-like class. Check Google Images for “Dragon Hunter” and you get the answer to what most-people think of when they hear that term. I don’t see a lot of that looking like your fairy-winged do-gooder in that video! ;-)
Not to mention that a bow doesn’t really fit that theme either. A big-kitten crossbow maybe, but not a plain Longbow. Ever hear of a LB taking down a dragon? I mean Bard tried it, and saw where that got him! Didn’t do squat until he broke the bow in half, turned it into a ballista MacGyver style, and shot a big heavy dwarven arrow in just the one weak spot the dragon had! Sounds to me like Guardians should have gotten 2h lances. :P
Chronomancer not only sounds good, but fits the Mesmer perfectly. (And GI agrees! )
How does chronomancer fit perfectly with Mesmer?
And what’s with all the knocks against guards? Personally I am having more fun with my guard in PvP than Mesmer, at least I feel like I have a shot against most classes / builds, and I dont think that will change much in HoT. Sure, the fashion is cool, but dying in fabulous clothes to thieves constantly is no fun. All that glitters is not gold, we shall see how Mesmers fare in PvP in HOT expansion. Let’s not forget about PvE concerns (plenty new threads about it), the new traits and specialization is not helping the Mesmer in that aspect of the game either…
Sanctum of Rall
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
We’ve gotten shield and a lame name (granted “dragon hunter” is even lamer).
On paper our spec. looks at least more fun than the guard’s.
We’re not much better off than them though.
How is chronomancer a lame name?
Yeah! No kidding!
It’s certainly leaps and bounds better then Dragon Hunter on a virtue/justice based Paladin-like class. Check Google Images for “Dragon Hunter” and you get the answer to what most-people think of when they hear that term. I don’t see a lot of that looking like your fairy-winged do-gooder in that video! ;-)
Not to mention that a bow doesn’t really fit that theme either. A big-kitten crossbow maybe, but not a plain Longbow. Ever hear of a LB taking down a dragon? I mean Bard tried it, and saw where that got him! Didn’t do squat until he broke the bow in half, turned it into a ballista MacGyver style, and shot a big heavy dwarven arrow in just the one weak spot the dragon had! Sounds to me like Guardians should have gotten 2h lances. :P
Chronomancer not only sounds good, but fits the Mesmer perfectly. (And GI agrees! )
How does chronomancer fit perfectly with Mesmer?
And what’s with all the knocks against guards? Personally I am having more fun with my guard in PvP than Mesmer, at least I feel like I have a shot against most classes / builds, and I dont think that will change much in HoT. Sure, the fashion is cool, but dying in fabulous clothes to thieves constantly is no fun. All that glitters is not gold, we shall see how Mesmers fare in PvP in HOT expansion. Let’s not forget about PvE concerns (plenty new threads about it), the new traits and specialization is not helping the Mesmer in that aspect of the game either…
Of course people are going to prefer mesmer over guardian, you’re on the mesmer forums mate!
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
I’m not knocking Guardians in general, I’m knocking the Dragonhunter idea for a virtuous/justice based Paladinish type class.
And as I said, I’ll probably eat all my words when they reveal actual details. ;-)
I just personally didn’t like the video at all. The guy looked completely out of place in the jungle, and wielding a longbow. It just looked odd, and as someone else said, even with all the obvious editing of the video they still really didn’t make it look good. (IMO!)
Err not gonna lie after seeing some of those traps Crit as high as they were I’m not laughing as much as I was before.
Hopefully dulfy will have a good summary and gw2 will have a vod up fairly quick for further investigation after they’ve finished.
As I said before … they’re likely going to rub the salt right back in our eyes after the stream (I can’t watch twitch from work).
Guardian has been one of the dominant classes in the meta for WvW, sPvP, and PvE. Not once have I seen someone go “oh crap, we have a Guardian in our party”.
It is that class that can facetank in a game where most people that facetank die horrible, disfiguring deaths … one of the very reasons I love being on my Mesmer so I can strip most of that BS from them so they can either “not play like crap” or “just die” (I hate extremely effective low skill floors … so love “correcting” them).
There should be no surprise that its new Specialization is powerful.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Well they pretty much brought back RoJ from gw1 in the form of a trap.
One trap insta stacks 25 vuln and does an AoE reveal.
Not to mention some of the pulses Crit for(watched from my phone could be wrong) around 3-4k+
As I said before … they’re likely going to rub the salt right back in our eyes after the stream (I can’t watch twitch from work).
Guardian has been one of the dominant classes in the meta for WvW, sPvP, and PvE. Not once have I seen someone go “oh crap, we have a Guardian in our party”.
It is that class that can facetank in a game where most people that facetank die horrible, disfiguring deaths … one of the very reasons I love being on my Mesmer so I can strip most of that BS from them so they can either “not play like crap” or “just die” (I hate extremely effective low skill floors … so love “correcting” them).
There should be no surprise that its new Specialization is powerful.
I just think Guardian as a class is in a good spot, not OP in the meta, killable, but not so weak against most builds. As for low skill floor, that’s kind of subjective. The only one I can think of that are way worst is pew pew ranger and turret engies, and we all know what just happened to turret engies…
I just hope Anet address the skill vs. reward for Mesmer, I just dont want to deal with thieves as a hard counter even if you played well, and you still get destroyed by them on most cases.
Sanctum of Rall
Pain Train Choo [Choo]
Mind Smack – Mesmer
I’d argue that pew pew Ranger requires considerable skill when faced with a skilled opponent … because skilled opponents know several ways to counter Rapid Fire and taking Rapid Fire from a longbow puts it in a bad position.
There is a reason that Guardian is part of every meta and Ranger is part of none of them.
Everything is technically killable … anyone’s HP can go to 0 :-p
I agree with you on the hard counter … but I think they have an uphill battle to fight trying to get us away from “build wars” … assuming they are even trying to get away from that.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
I take some comfort in the fact that we can reflect a lot of that crap right back into their faces. ;-) We’ve gotten a lot of reflects…maybe there was a reason for that!
Not too worried. Some balance will still be done…certainly looks better then I thought, but still fairly gimicky.
On my mesmer, I’m with you Windwalker.
On my ranger, I have an initial “wtf” feeling.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
Our Ranger traps are supposed to be getting some reworks done to them though … so I’m holding off on comparing traps.
The Guardian’s new +15% dmg trait has me concerned though since that allows this traitline + one other to give them a total of +50% dmg on their target(s).
Big Game Hunter + Fiery Wrath + Zealous Blade + Symbolic Avenger = 15% + 10% + 5% + 20% = +50% damage … from two specializations
Here’s a mean example which I’m probably going to partake in on my Mesmer with my Guardian buddies
Mesmer: Mass Invis
Guardians: Binding Blade … damage will break their stealth but they’ve got you now
Guardians: Symbol of Wrath
Guardians: Pull
Mesmer: CC (shield will be great for this)
Guardians: Whirling Blade
Profit.
Christian. Husband. Father. Friend. Developer. Gamer.
Try your best to not make mistakes, but, when you do make mistakes, learn from them.
Better yourself.
The Guardian’s new +15% dmg trait has me concerned though since that allows this traitline + one other to give them a total of +50% dmg on their target(s).
Big Game Hunter + Fiery Wrath + Zealous Blade + Symbolic Avenger = 15% + 10% + 5% + 20% = +50% damage … from two specializations
I guess it’s stacking by multiplication: 1*1.15*1.10*1.05*1.20=1.5939
That would mean: Bye Bye Reflect mesmer :< Hello Reflect Guardian
)
