[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ross Biddle.2367

Ross Biddle.2367

Domination: sounds amazing, and exactly what weve been suggesting.

Duelling: useless in spvp, it probably won’t proc on player summoned AI. Ok in zerging, you could go fire a few arrow cart shots before diving in, and chaib distortion if you get lucky. Useless in pve, because we all know all you need is damage.

Chaos: theyre putting more shatter traits in non-shatter lines? I was actually hoping theyd put them in illusions. It could be usefull in a full boon support spec… But I doubt going full support is a good idea nowadays.

Inspiration: maybe if it stacked duration it would be ‘usefull’ in wvw zerging.

Illusions: My guess is that it’s about 2 stacks per clone or something. Maybe it can make “condi shatter” viable again (even though, back then. I really couldn’t see why eople liked it.).

“Back then” everyone was power/crit, and nobody ran condition cleanse. All things considered confusion bombing wasn’t as powerful as it seemed because people werent building with condition cleansing in mind. Nowadays it’d be weak, and considering we’re in the age of confusion nerf, it’s now only weaker.

It was great back then. These days you just can’t run around with a shatter spec like that. You’ve got a highly mobile, condition meta to deal with (incoming from enemies also).

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

That only proves the point I’ve been making about this trait. That video is just non-stop RG facerolling over everything else. The trait only starts activating significantly once the enemy group starts melting, at which point it’s irrelevant.

Edit: As a matter of fact, in that entire video, the amount of times where you got kills and it would have actually protected you from something happened maybe 3 times.

(edited by Pyroathiest.4168)

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

That only proves the point I’ve been making about this trait. That video is just non-stop RG facerolling over everything else. The trait only starts activating significantly once the enemy group starts melting, at which point it’s irrelevant.

Edit: As a matter of fact, in that entire video, the amount of times where you got kills and it would have actually protected you from something happened maybe 3 times.

Well the video is not the perfect example for what it can be now since it’s outdated. Atm you have much more problems with retaliation which forces you to run a lot tankier. Whereas, as far as I’m concerned, you don’t get retal damage if you have distortion up.

Also, pug blobs became smarter. It’s not them running around like fools and doing nothing anymore. It’s sometimes pretty organised and even when you kill 20 of them it’s not a 100% win for your side. I can see this trait work in combination with more dps-based gears.

1 big problem though… 30 points in dueling isn’t really what you want. More DPS or boon removal? I think that decision isn’t hard to make.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

You say you aren’t trolling, but then you mention the dueling GM trait….lol. There are very few people with builds that use 30 in dueling besides pve phantasm builds, which are hard to pull off in pvp. I can sort of agree with you if you meant Domination, but definitely not Dueling.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

You say you aren’t trolling, but then you mention the dueling GM trait….lol. There are very few people with builds that use 30 in dueling besides pve phantasm builds, which are hard to pull off in pvp. I can sort of agree with you if you meant Domination, but definitely not Dueling.

You asked me if I was trolling about perm immunity, I said no. The problem you’re pointing out has nothing to do with if it’s possible or not. And actually, there are quite a bit roaming builds that got 30 in dueling or is viable with 30 in dueling such as PU builds.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

You say you aren’t trolling, but then you mention the dueling GM trait….lol. There are very few people with builds that use 30 in dueling besides pve phantasm builds, which are hard to pull off in pvp. I can sort of agree with you if you meant Domination, but definitely not Dueling.

You asked me if I was trolling about perm immunity, I said no. The problem you’re pointing out has nothing to do with if it’s possible or not. And actually, there are quite a bit roaming builds that got 30 in dueling or is viable with 30 in dueling such as PU builds.

This has gotten off topic so I’m going to end it here, but I never said it wasn’t possible. You said that they gave “the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines that have the current best GM traits” which I profusely disagree with. As far as the Dueling one goes I agree with Pyro that in most cases it will get “OP” when a fight is already nearing its close, which isn’t when you need it. In small skirmishes however, I do see this trait being a pain to play against. In 1v1 situations though it’s a rather useless trait. So it has its trade-offs, but overall I’d say it’s most useful in a roaming group of 3-5.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Blades of Sabatine.5639

Blades of Sabatine.5639

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

You say you aren’t trolling, but then you mention the dueling GM trait….lol. There are very few people with builds that use 30 in dueling besides pve phantasm builds, which are hard to pull off in pvp. I can sort of agree with you if you meant Domination, but definitely not Dueling.

You asked me if I was trolling about perm immunity, I said no. The problem you’re pointing out has nothing to do with if it’s possible or not. And actually, there are quite a bit roaming builds that got 30 in dueling or is viable with 30 in dueling such as PU builds.

This has gotten off topic so I’m going to end it here, but I never said it wasn’t possible. You said that they gave “the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines that have the current best GM traits” which I profusely disagree with. As far as the Dueling one goes I agree with Pyro that in most cases it will get “OP” when a fight is already nearing its close, which isn’t when you need it. In small skirmishes however, I do see this trait being a pain to play against. In 1v1 situations though it’s a rather useless trait. So it has its trade-offs, but overall I’d say it’s most useful in a roaming group of 3-5.

Is right, the trait is almost if not useless in a 1v1 condition. I also believe it more a PVE then a WVW traits. The amount of condition damage and AOE flying around with mostly counter it.

As for the video, although did not watch the whole things, what I noticed is he wasn’t really in the thick of the battle, more jumping in when CD is off and out when CD is on.

A real test on this trait will be solo play again multiple players to see how effective it really is. Zerg game to me doesn’t mean anything. Like I said before, too much AOE and condition damage flying all over the place for it to have a real meaning much. This is the reason why I believe it more PVE than the other two game play.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

I like how they give the best grandmaster traits to the trait lines which already got the best current GM traits.

Mesmer in raid vs big blobs gonna be… ’’fun’’ lol. Just facetank everything with perm immunity.

Are…….are you trolling? I can’t tell…

No? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmJ1QZ_aPqc&list=PL8ED62A3D9F4A3742
Every time exp pops up I get 3 sec immunity. Add that with the dodges you get with perm vigor and the distortion from yourself + blurred frenzy. Perm immunity while in combat isnt that hard to obtain like that.

You say you aren’t trolling, but then you mention the dueling GM trait….lol. There are very few people with builds that use 30 in dueling besides pve phantasm builds, which are hard to pull off in pvp. I can sort of agree with you if you meant Domination, but definitely not Dueling.

You asked me if I was trolling about perm immunity, I said no. The problem you’re pointing out has nothing to do with if it’s possible or not. And actually, there are quite a bit roaming builds that got 30 in dueling or is viable with 30 in dueling such as PU builds.

pvp condition build here with 30 in dueling. NOT Pee Eww though. 0/30/20/20/0

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: etiolate.9185

etiolate.9185

Have a question in regards to the Inspiration trait Disruptor’s Sustainment: Does this have an internal CD?

Not sure if anybody’s asked this.

Zed Zebes – SBI Mesmer

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

That only proves the point I’ve been making about this trait. That video is just non-stop RG facerolling over everything else. The trait only starts activating significantly once the enemy group starts melting, at which point it’s irrelevant.

Edit: As a matter of fact, in that entire video, the amount of times where you got kills and it would have actually protected you from something happened maybe 3 times.

Yeah, I don’t get the hype either. The trait isn’t bad, but it’s certainly not strong. Might need a buff. :o

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

That only proves the point I’ve been making about this trait. That video is just non-stop RG facerolling over everything else. The trait only starts activating significantly once the enemy group starts melting, at which point it’s irrelevant.

Edit: As a matter of fact, in that entire video, the amount of times where you got kills and it would have actually protected you from something happened maybe 3 times.

Yeah, I don’t get the hype either. The trait isn’t bad, but it’s certainly not strong. Might need a buff. :o

Because some guilds do actually make 1 kill every 3 seconds against pug blobs. Only problem is that mesmer would become a dps class rather than a support class. Maybe shatter build with 1200-1300 toughness to do backline focus till you kill kitten, you jump in and out in 3-5seconds and deal 8-10k spikes with shatter+BF? Can see it work.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

@BlackDevil
You’re describing a scenario in which the attacking zerg is already winning, and clearly so. The trait will hardly be of use in that situation.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: selan.8354

selan.8354

@BlackDevil
You’re describing a scenario in which the attacking zerg is already winning, and clearly so. The trait will hardly be of use in that situation.

yep this. i run with a zergbusting group, so we are around 18-21 people pushing 35-45 people. in this situation u cant wait for someone to die so u can make use of that trait. u would need the distortion before they start dropping. so i dont think i will use this trait at all.

Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Greyalis.2309

Greyalis.2309

For me its a hard choice between Bountiful Disillusionment and Power lock.

On my mesmer I typically do power PU builds but in wvw do a PU might stacking build to transfer to allies as well as my phantasms—so bountiful dissillusionment would be great for that.

Power Lock would help me a lot against Ham/bow warriors though probably. . .

Self Is The Emblem All

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

@BlackDevil
You’re describing a scenario in which the attacking zerg is already winning, and clearly so. The trait will hardly be of use in that situation.

No lol. if you fight 25 vs 60-70 you’re not winning by killing 5-10 dudes. If you killed 20-25 you’re on the point of winning the fight. It’s not like those pugs wont run back either. Let’s say you’re fighting in a keep, these fights last over 10 mins. Having 3 sec immunity every now and then is sure worth looking at.
Or if you fight near their spawn in open battle against mutiple groups. Fights like those don’t end in 1minute.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Bumbler.7581

Bumbler.7581

In trying to think of ways to make these viable for PvE, the only useful one seems to be:

Dueling: Triumphant Distortion – Gain 3s of distortion upon killing an enemy. No cooldown.

It will make us very tanky in dungeon trash, and not to mention we will likely get tons of distortion uptime on the Grawl Fire Elemental Shaman. Since trash dies so easily when hidden behind blinds/reflects/aegis, the only real time I can see myself swapping to this is the fire elemental. Will you guys be swapping back and forth from Empowering Mantras and Triumphant Distortion much?

In Chancery (Jade Quarry, NA) – The Instance Mesmer
#readingLFGisOP #savethewarden
#wallsfixdungeons

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

In trying to think of ways to make these viable for PvE, the only useful one seems to be:

Dueling: Triumphant Distortion – Gain 3s of distortion upon killing an enemy. No cooldown.

It will make us very tanky in dungeon trash, and not to mention we will likely get tons of distortion uptime on the Grawl Fire Elemental Shaman. Since trash dies so easily when hidden behind blinds/reflects/aegis, the only real time I can see myself swapping to this is the fire elemental. Will you guys be swapping back and forth from Empowering Mantras and Triumphant Distortion much?

I can see using Triumphant Distortion at grawl ele and maybe dredge clown car. That’s about it.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

Now that they’ve been revealed on the livestream let’s discuss them.

  • Domination: Interrupted skills will go on 10s cooldown instead of 5s NO ICD
  • Dueling: Get 3s of distortion after killing a foe. NO ICD
  • Chaos: Grant boons on shatter activation (F1: 3s Retaliation, F2: 15s Might(x3), F3: 5s Fury, F4: 8s regeneration)
  • Inspiration: +1000 healing power after interrupt (4s)
  • Illusions: Torment on Shatter hits (no values confirmed)

DOMINATION
While I had been hoping something like this to a lesser effect would replace Wastrel’s Punishment, I gotta admit this is interesting. While it could be OP, I’m not so certain, but it definitely will spark some new build ideas. I can see a surge of 30/20/20/0/0 Mesmer appearing though, and definitely have a few build ideas of my own. Wrote more on this here.

DUELING
Not too excited here. While it’s interesting for sure I can’t see myself ever using this and can’t think of many situations I’d be happy to have it. MAYBE for zergs, MAYBE for some PvE, but even then I’d still be considering other options

CHAOS
If this is per-clone-shattered then it’s totally Grandmaster-worthy. If it’s more like Vigorous Revelation (on shatter activation) then it may have some use. Vigorous Revelation is strong because it’s an AoE effect, this one looks to only affect the user. Could work for an 0/20/30/20/0 shatter-boonshare build, and I’m definitely gonna play around with it, but the only boons that seem worthwhile here are F2 and F3.

INSPIRATION
Oh man I hope Pyro is wrong about this. This could potentially be EXCELLENT if it stacks in intensity, and still not bad if it stacks duration. With the way runes are being reworked (like Water & Dwayna) this could actually be kinda nice.

ILLUSIONS
This will surpass Imbued Diversion for sure but hard to tell if it’ll be as lucrative as iPersona since we have no confirmation on duration/stacks -granted we don’t know if Imbued is getting any kind of buff or tweak yet- and can open up a whole world of potential for condition Mesmer. Traiting into Illusions already gives you added condition damage and Confusion on every shatter, now Confusion +Torment per shatter? Nice!

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Bumbler.7581

Bumbler.7581

I can see using Triumphant Distortion at grawl ele and maybe dredge clown car. That’s about it.

Hrmm, yeah, I forgot about the dredge clown car. Potential uses are up to 2! ^_- I’ll have to try it out once it is released.

While I am disappointed in the new traits (since I do not either PvP or WvW), fixing phantasmal haste and iWarden, in addition to the various other bugs, is much more than I could have hoped for.

In Chancery (Jade Quarry, NA) – The Instance Mesmer
#readingLFGisOP #savethewarden
#wallsfixdungeons

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

I can see using Triumphant Distortion at grawl ele and maybe dredge clown car. That’s about it.

I’ll use it in the new LS when the next vegetable goes bonkers and invades us.

Any idea when the podcast will be ready?

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

I can see using Triumphant Distortion at grawl ele and maybe dredge clown car. That’s about it.

I’ll use it in the new LS when the next vegetable goes bonkers and invades us.

Any idea when the podcast will be ready?

We actually ran into an odd issue where my mic wasn’t somehow getting to the stream for the last 10 minutes or so, so were going to have to do a bit of re-recording, but hopefully by Wednesday or so.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Shriketalon.1937

Shriketalon.1937

What I don’t understand is how someone can look at the Inspiration trait line, the “make phantasms awesome to provide the entire phantasm playstyle” traitline, the traitline with not one, but TWO shatter based grandmaster traits….

…and the first thing that comes to mind is “Interrupt healer!”

Who do we have to hypnotize to get a single Phantasm grandmaster trait in the entire Mesmer lineup?

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: daemon.1387

daemon.1387

I want a grandmaster mantra recharge related trait. Something like charge a random mantra on interrupt or something.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

Oh Shriketalon, you didn’t know? 15% increase in Phantasmal Strength is our grandmaster trait!

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: skcamow.3527

skcamow.3527

Just FYI all, I got some clarification on Disruptor’s Sustainment and Maim the Disillusioned:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Dev-livestream-Ready-Up-March-28-12pm-PvP-Rewards-Next-phase/first#post3822725

NOT excited about DS, but maimed could be really good.

Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

NOT excited about DS, but maimed could be really good.

Meh. But MtD does sound quite nice.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

Just FYI all, I got some clarification on Disruptor’s Sustainment and Maim the Disillusioned:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Dev-livestream-Ready-Up-March-28-12pm-PvP-Rewards-Next-phase/first#post3822725

NOT excited about DS, but maimed could be really good.

Yeah, I called that on DS.

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: skcamow.3527

skcamow.3527

Yeah DS is a pile ‘o dung IMO. Way too unreliable for any good use. Maybe I’ll eventually get around to playing with it but doubtful.

Jury’s still out on maimed though. It has potential, but that duration is pretty crummy.

Kortham Raysplitter (Yak’s Bend)

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Ramiel.4931

Ramiel.4931

I doubt maimed will have enough impact for people to actually care about it.

One stack/clone with 4 second duration is laughable dmg. Seems much more suited to a Master level trait, if even that. Confusion on shatter is a minor trait and probably does more than this torment. And the PvE uses are questionable at best.

I hope I’m wrong on this one though. Condi shatter is an interesting prospect.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

It is sad that you can’t burst with Torment on its own but it might still be good enough. However, it will be a different playstyle than our current shatter builds. A more sustained one.

Use F1 for sustained damage which also got Confusion from Illusionary Retribution as cover up. Maybe add in Rending Shatters for even more conditions. Use F2 for burst. Ideally set up the burst with a close combat Sc#2 and pressure with Sc#3 after F2 hits. I’m quite confident it will work considering that you got the advantage of rabid or even settler gear over zerker. It probably won’t be more powerful than current shatter builds but that is not the point of the new traits anyway.

(edited by Xaylin.1860)

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

I think Maimed by itself is nothing to write home about, but if you combine it with a few other traits it’s a good build to have. I’m looking forward to testing it.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

It is sad that you can’t burst with Torment on its own but it might still be good enough. However, it will be a different playstyle than our current shatter builds. A more sustained one.

Use F1 for sustained damage which also got Confusion from Illusionary Retribution as cover up. Maybe add in Rending Shatters for even more conditions. Use F2 for burst. Ideally set up the burst with a close combat Sc#2 and pressure with Sc#3 after F2 hits. I’m quite confident it will work considering that you got the advantage of rabid or even settler gear over zerker. It probably won’t be more powerful than current shatter builds but that is not the point of the new traits anyway.

Yeah…I just don’t see it working out very well.

Assuming you have 50% condition duration, the torment lasts 6 seconds. A 3 clone shatter of this will do roughly 3500 damage in a build with quite high condition damage on a target that is moving the entire time. A normal shatter build will do that with 1 clone of a 3 clone shatter.

Basically, as usual, Anet failed miserably on the implementation of this. Shatters are by nature bursty. This is not bursty. This is not even sustain. This is just…weak.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

It is sad that you can’t burst with Torment on its own but it might still be good enough. However, it will be a different playstyle than our current shatter builds. A more sustained one.

Use F1 for sustained damage which also got Confusion from Illusionary Retribution as cover up. Maybe add in Rending Shatters for even more conditions. Use F2 for burst. Ideally set up the burst with a close combat Sc#2 and pressure with Sc#3 after F2 hits. I’m quite confident it will work considering that you got the advantage of rabid or even settler gear over zerker. It probably won’t be more powerful than current shatter builds but that is not the point of the new traits anyway.

Yeah…I just don’t see it working out very well.

Assuming you have 50% condition duration, the torment lasts 6 seconds. A 3 clone shatter of this will do roughly 3500 damage in a build with quite high condition damage on a target that is moving the entire time. A normal shatter build will do that with 1 clone of a 3 clone shatter.

Basically, as usual, Anet failed miserably on the implementation of this. Shatters are by nature bursty. This is not bursty. This is not even sustain. This is just…weak.

You can’t really compare a power shatter build, to a condition shatter build. They use the same skills, yes, but they play completely differently and you know it. Also how is this not sustain? I’ll agree it’s not high damage, but what did you expect them to do? Give us some trait that makes all of our shatters hit like scepter #2?

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

It is sad that you can’t burst with Torment on its own but it might still be good enough. However, it will be a different playstyle than our current shatter builds. A more sustained one.

Use F1 for sustained damage which also got Confusion from Illusionary Retribution as cover up. Maybe add in Rending Shatters for even more conditions. Use F2 for burst. Ideally set up the burst with a close combat Sc#2 and pressure with Sc#3 after F2 hits. I’m quite confident it will work considering that you got the advantage of rabid or even settler gear over zerker. It probably won’t be more powerful than current shatter builds but that is not the point of the new traits anyway.

Yeah…I just don’t see it working out very well.

Assuming you have 50% condition duration, the torment lasts 6 seconds. A 3 clone shatter of this will do roughly 3500 damage in a build with quite high condition damage on a target that is moving the entire time. A normal shatter build will do that with 1 clone of a 3 clone shatter.

Basically, as usual, Anet failed miserably on the implementation of this. Shatters are by nature bursty. This is not bursty. This is not even sustain. This is just…weak.

You can’t really compare a power shatter build, to a condition shatter build. They use the same skills, yes, but they play completely differently and you know it. Also how is this not sustain? I’ll agree it’s not high damage, but what did you expect them to do? Give us some trait that makes all of our shatters hit like scepter #2?

What I look for in a shatter build is burst. Burst would be something like 2-3 stacks per clone, on a base 2 second duration. This allows you to actually build up potentially massive stacks for a couple really high ticks.

Mesmer doesn’t need sustained condition application. We have that from staff clones, duelists, dissipation traits, etc. What we lack is the ability to actually do an effect burst of conditions that isn’t reliant on horrible RNG (debilitating dissipation is the offender here).

Burst damage allows you to fight in a different way. It allows for strong opening movements, the capacity to finish people off rapidly, etc. Confusion is by nature a bursty condition, as it generally is applied at low durations in high stacks, but by itself it’s useless. With this trait Anet had the opportunity to make shatters potentially a true condition burst mechanic between confusion and torment, but they failed.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Raunchy.6891

Raunchy.6891

I don’t think maimed is going to be good at all. That’s not bursty enough. That’s just another short duration, low intensity condition that everyone will just ignore.

It is sad that you can’t burst with Torment on its own but it might still be good enough. However, it will be a different playstyle than our current shatter builds. A more sustained one.

Use F1 for sustained damage which also got Confusion from Illusionary Retribution as cover up. Maybe add in Rending Shatters for even more conditions. Use F2 for burst. Ideally set up the burst with a close combat Sc#2 and pressure with Sc#3 after F2 hits. I’m quite confident it will work considering that you got the advantage of rabid or even settler gear over zerker. It probably won’t be more powerful than current shatter builds but that is not the point of the new traits anyway.

Yeah…I just don’t see it working out very well.

Assuming you have 50% condition duration, the torment lasts 6 seconds. A 3 clone shatter of this will do roughly 3500 damage in a build with quite high condition damage on a target that is moving the entire time. A normal shatter build will do that with 1 clone of a 3 clone shatter.

Basically, as usual, Anet failed miserably on the implementation of this. Shatters are by nature bursty. This is not bursty. This is not even sustain. This is just…weak.

You can’t really compare a power shatter build, to a condition shatter build. They use the same skills, yes, but they play completely differently and you know it. Also how is this not sustain? I’ll agree it’s not high damage, but what did you expect them to do? Give us some trait that makes all of our shatters hit like scepter #2?

What I look for in a shatter build is burst. Burst would be something like 2-3 stacks per clone, on a base 2 second duration. This allows you to actually build up potentially massive stacks for a couple really high ticks.

Mesmer doesn’t need sustained condition application. We have that from staff clones, duelists, dissipation traits, etc. What we lack is the ability to actually do an effect burst of conditions that isn’t reliant on horrible RNG (debilitating dissipation is the offender here).

Burst damage allows you to fight in a different way. It allows for strong opening movements, the capacity to finish people off rapidly, etc. Confusion is by nature a bursty condition, as it generally is applied at low durations in high stacks, but by itself it’s useless. With this trait Anet had the opportunity to make shatters potentially a true condition burst mechanic between confusion and torment, but they failed.

I still think they want Confusion to be our “burst” condition and not Torment, but we just need a better way to apply more stacks of it, because F2+Sc3 isn’t fooling any veterans. This trait still has lots of potential for a sick condition build when it comes out though.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

Basically, as usual, Anet failed miserably on the implementation of this. Shatters are by nature bursty. This is not bursty. This is not even sustain. This is just…weak.

Free yourself from defining all shatters as bursty. It certainly applies to Mind Wrack but you can’t make a case for the other shatters we have. If ANet wanted it to be about burst they would have limited MtD to one shatter skill with higher stacks instead of making it affect all shatters. I get that you expected something different but it doesn’t mean that MtD is bad. Don’t be a grumpy.

It won’t be bursty but I don’t think that Torment is a bursty condition to begin with. It creates a new playstyle for shatters which I personally like. You will also be able to pull off some nice damage when using a Sc#2+F2 ‘burst’.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: MailMail.6534

MailMail.6534

I fully plan on trying to make the shatter condition build work.

https://www.twitch.tv/thatcho
“The jealous are troublesome to others, but certainly a torment to themselves.”

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Pyroathiest.4168

Pyroathiest.4168

Ok, let me try and explain why I’m really disappointed with the trait.

It runs into the exact same problem as the IE change of simply enhancing the mesmer’s effectiveness at a niche we’re already highly effective at, and doing nothing else. Will the trait create new builds (condie shatter)? Yes. Will those builds be strong? The question has to be asked ‘strong at what?’.

The condie shatter builds will be very strong in 1v1s, just like clone death builds are now. They’ll be able to kill people defending a point probably a bit faster than a clone-death build currently. They’ll still be completely useless against a decap engie, and actually potentially be worse against a guardian since you can block shatters, but you can’t block clone-deaths.

So, why was a shatter mesmer taken in teams? Shatter mesmer was taken because it had access to IoL, Portal, aoe boonstripping, and large aoe burst damage. The reason it isn’t taken now is because thieves eat it alive.

So what does condie shatter bring? Condie shatter can potentially bring IoL, Portal, and aoe boonstripping. It will, however, do literally almost no damage in fights. The torment will get cleansed off by the guardian or warriors. Additionally, in order to effectively get shatters on the point, it has to be on top of the point. Power shatters can take a greatsword to provide on-target illusion generation. All staff skills are point blank illusion generation. Even though condie shatter can go tanky, this still puts the mesmer into a worse location.

Ultimately, the question becomes ‘is it worth it to bring someone that does absolutely no damage in a team fight, but also brings portal, IoL, and aoe boon stripping?’. The answer to that question so far has been a big no, as you don’t see any super tanky mesmers providing that utility to teams anywhere.

This trait will provide a bit more variety to mesmer condition builds, but it won’t change anything. That’s why I’m extremely disappointed in the implementation.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Worthag.1362

Worthag.1362

I didnt read all 3 pages, so maybe I repeat it.
Pls make new grandmaster trait: Clones are immune to damage for 1 (2) seconds after created.
Without this, shattering for boon removal doesnt rlly work in ZvZ.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: BlackDevil.9268

BlackDevil.9268

Wait wait wait.
Make a grandmaster for that? So that means you would need to go 30-10-0-0-30, meaning you don’t have illusions to shatter anyway? Yeah that sounds great lol. Anyway, just use IP, it works with the boon removal.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: Xaylin.1860

Xaylin.1860

The condie shatter builds will be very strong in 1v1s, just like clone death builds are now. They’ll be able to kill people defending a point probably a bit faster than a clone-death build currently. They’ll still be completely useless against a decap engie, and actually potentially be worse against a guardian since you can block shatters, but you can’t block clone-deaths.

First, I think everybody knows by now that ANet doesn’t like on death builds. While this point of view is questionable I personally expect them to become unviable as soon as those traits can’t be triggered actively anymore. As a result, the condi shatter Mesmer will take over this role and on death traits will become complementary traits.

Second, you’re only looking at the (t)PvP meta. I highly doubt that ANet intents to significantly improve the general viability of any class through introducing those new GM traits. Bringing a class back into the meta by implementing one single trait is extremly bad for the overall class balance. It has to be done through more scattered improvements (e.g. lower tier traits, baseline performance of weapon skills and utilities). Therefore, I believe it isn’t helpful to argue about the viability of a trait solely in the context of the meta.

So what does condie shatter bring? Condie shatter can potentially bring IoL, Portal, and aoe boonstripping. It will, however, do literally almost no damage in fights. The torment will get cleansed off by the guardian or warriors. Additionally, in order to effectively get shatters on the point, it has to be on top of the point. Power shatters can take a greatsword to provide on-target illusion generation. All staff skills are point blank illusion generation. Even though condie shatter can go tanky, this still puts the mesmer into a worse location.

Again, I’m not sure that discussing the new GM traits solely in the context of the current (PvP) meta is helpful. It’s most likely that the majority of those traits aren’t even supposed to affect the meta rather than opening up new builds.

That aside, you are restricting your point of view by seeing MtD in the context of current power shatter builds. Condition builds are played differently than power builds in general (maybe with the exception of Terror Necros) so comparing them is quite moot. You also restrict yourself by assigning the Mesmer to one specific role in PvP (roamer). For example, what if condi shatter Mesmers turned out to be great bunkers? That is something we currently do not have because stealth (PU) results in decaps.

Ontop of that, we don’t know if there might be any changes to our other traits. While I don’t want to keep my hopes up too high there better be some. I mean… we didn’t have any meaningful changes since last fall.

[Discuss] New Grandmaster Traits

in Mesmer

Posted by: selan.8354

selan.8354

I didnt read all 3 pages, so maybe I repeat it.
Pls make new grandmaster trait: Clones are immune to damage for 1 (2) seconds after created.
Without this, shattering for boon removal doesnt rlly work in ZvZ.

yeah if u wanna shatter in zvz u will need ip. no clone or even phantasm survives long enough to be viable at shattering

Lv 80 glamour Mesmer Triforce Mesmerpower PU mes,Lv 80 power necro
[AVTR]
Isle of Kickaspenwood