I recently heard of a build that I like. I am going to try a build based around condition damage and surviving. It is using scepter/torch + staff with perplexity runes and rabid gear. STRAIGHT rabid gear. I feel as though I don’t care for that much precision and with all that toughness in A condi meta, what is it with out vitality? I was wondering if it would. Be worth mixing in A carrion chest, accessories and maybe a carrion amulet also?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
personally, I prefer to just keep the armour rabid, but go for some carrion accessories/jewels.
I end up with around 2.7-2.8k armour and around 16-18k hp, depending on the wvw buffs and such.
as for the precision, its for the sharper images which stacks bleeding when the illusions/phantasms crit ( and they crit more with more precision, it also helps with on crit sigils)
Tell me why it is you prefer to stick with rabid. I mean, power never hurts either because even though your precision will be reduced, I think the vitality is necessary and the power gives a little bit of upfront damage that can never be turned down, and the Condi damage is an obvious given. I’d like to ponder this with my peers point of view as well.
P.S. Your stats effect your phantasms? God I HATE that. How much does it effect it?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
Precision matters because a massive amount of the bleed pressure on a condition mesmer is from the trait sharper images, which causes your illusions to bleed on crit.
Alright alright. Thank you for that information Pyro. But, even then I am talking about 1v3ing where sacrificing survivability for too much damage is your death note in WvW unless you are a very skilled mesmer. I am a decently new 80 as a mesmer but not new no no not at all! Haha. That is my opinion anyway so what do you think about at least carrion chest and amulet? I am also kind of wondering where I am going to get the rabid trinkets if I do choose that route anyway.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
Alright alright. Thank you for that information Pyro. But, even then I am talking about 1v3ing where sacrificing survivability for too much damage is your death note in WvW unless you are a very skilled mesmer. I am a decently new 80 as a mesmer but not new no no not at all! Haha. That is my opinion anyway so what do you think about at least carrion chest and amulet? I am also kind of wondering where I am going to get the rabid trinkets if I do choose that route anyway.
Full rabid really doesn’t sacrifice any survivability. It has toughness as a minor stat, which is very strong. I personally run with 1 carrion weapon, full rabid everything else, and then all of my ascended gear is the odd stat distribution that is sorta like rabid but also has vitality, and these are my stats (attached picture, no stacks on my sigil).
This is Virconi’s(sp) Stealth Condition Roaming build where I switched out some of the apothecary gear for Shamam’s and I routinely take out 1v3. I am sorry if you were looking for a rabid build and this is pointless for you but if you want condition and survivability this build and my gear is amazing.
@Overlord, like Pyro say rabid is for condition spec survability, to invest in carryon is inn fact ont only a dmg loss, its a survability loss in my opinion. As a 20 dueling condition mesmer precision is one of your core dmg stats. Add that you also have condition dmg scaling on toughness from chaos.
Il use full rabid and perplexi in my latest setup, exact gear can be found in my guide. There is accended rabid gear who also have vitality if you feel you need to up this stat.
@Hexen, sorry to say I have no understanding what so ever why you want healing stats on a mesmer. The ways of neglect and avoid dmg is far better than our healing skills anyway. We are not ment to paladin and be a target anyway. In any group fight our target drop and mobility make our friends focused and we just better of make things dead and use our utility for support in my opinion. For group healing our group far better of with a ranger or guardian anyway.
@Osicat: I thought the exact same thing when I first saw the build but the constant regen from my stationary phantasms really does boost my survivability. Plus the regen from PU. I have been using this build for about 2 months now and have zero bad things to say about it other than if the enemy runs I have a bit of a rough time catching them. I don’t really use this build in groups very much since it is a very selfish build. PS: the original build called for all Apoth Gear.
@Osi: I’ll have to disagree with the blanket statement about healing power on mesmers. We have some of the most potent healing in the game, and a build with say, full apothecary, can do very good damage while being unbelievably difficult to kill.
@Pyro and Hexen, I trust your skill as theorycrafter and players, I just have wery hard to grasp the usage of healing as a tool for mesmers. I see the use in groupplay to have healing players, but with no “cirkle of healing” “guardian aoe heal” etc our constant aoe heal is bound to phantasm for spread regen who have a tendense to die in group fights.
As PU user I understand you get alot of personal regen and with healing stats this indeed scale wery good, so do mantra of heal even with its chunky mecanic (personal opinion). I just dont feel I miss healing as a tool. Also both defensive stats vitality and toughness, scale our dmg. Cant find any simmilar synergi from healing.
Not sure. Just hard for me to grasp, might be that I just cant stay still and hug the phantasms enough.
@Osicat: I do not have a good enough computer to do videos of that build in action but I can say that I never “hug” my phantasms. I stay active and move around as much as I do when I am running your Shattercat Mist build. Because the phantasms give regen in pulses you don’t have to hug them because with your boon duration the regen stays on plenty long. I can no longer find Viconi’s(sp) thread for the build but in his vid he has constant regen thanks to everything all together and he constantly moves. Also, because it is a condition build that doesn’t utilize Dueling the precision from say Rabid gear is worthless. ^^ It really is a fun build promise. ^^
@Hexen, you feel you can burst down a condi necro or 0-30-30-10-0 bs condi clearing thief with that setup? I often feel that the only thing that win those fights for me is high preasure from crit procs in combo with other conditions. Nomatter how turned, a build without bleed on crit and crit do less dmg, same as a build with vitality och healing instead ofc survive a bit better. Question is, is the survival extra worth the trade of dmg?
I dont doubt the survival or the spec, just find its radicaly different from how i synergy and think. I must say im jelaous about the retaliation on phantasms thu.
Given the build is really meant for troll – he even states it’s built to take on 1vMany, the gear makes sense. Osi obviously has a good point about damage avoidance versus mitigation. Reliance on avoidance is generally the best policy but mitigation can be useful in some cases, depending on the build.
@Osicat: I have found that cleansing Thieves have actually decreased recently. Have not personally fought one solo with the build yet but I have a feeling it would be a stalemate. I can indeed take down condition necros though it does take a bit of time. The major point of this build is staying power. In fights of 1v# (I can take 3 pretty well add a fourth and I usually stalemate unless they have a few weaker players to pick off) this build works really well with taking the weak out first and then it can focus more. I would say that is the best part of this build is its group management and ability to almost ignore the rest of the group to take them out one by one while still doing conditions and pressure on the others as a side effect. I for sure don’t think it is the end all be all of condition builds but it plays well and is incredibly fun to play.
@Skcamow: Thanks. ^^ Almost forgot about that list ahahah ^^
@Overlord: Really sorry for derailing your thread. ><
To add in my 2 cents: I’ve been running a build that splits the difference, 0/20/30/20/0. This gives you the bleed on crit and the clone generation from DE. I lost the traited torch, but I make up for that by running Mender’s Purity (remove condi on heal) with Mantra of Recovery (which, with all the stealth, is so easy to charge) and the traited scepter. Rabid armor, settler’s trinkets, etc.
And the supercharged perma-regen makes you nigh invincible in 1v1s and many 1v2s. Healing power goes far with so much regeneration.
The retaliation on phantasms is meaningless now, as it only lasts 5 seconds. I will say, the build that hexxen posted lacks any meaningful form of clone generation, which means it would be very difficult to put any sort of lasting pressure on an opponent.
I generally run more offensive builds, but that still have permanent regeneration from either prismatic understanding or phantasmal healing, that way you can still apply pressure while being highly difficult to kill. Another option is going full into healing and tanky as a build with boonshare from prismatic understanding and aoe heals from restorative mantras.
I recently heard of a build that I like. I am going to try a build based around condition damage and surviving. It is using scepter/torch + staff with perplexity runes and rabid gear. STRAIGHT rabid gear. I feel as though I don’t care for that much precision and with all that toughness in A condi meta, what is it with out vitality? I was wondering if it would. Be worth mixing in A carrion chest, accessories and maybe a carrion amulet also?
Whats your build? I run a Condition build the same weapons, same runes and same gear?
Mine is
Domination(10): V
Dueling(25): II, X
Chaos(15): V
Inspiration(0)
Illusions(20): II, V
My back piece is actually an apothecary one while the 2nd accessary is an ascended rampager one but this was as close as the editor would allow. 1250 power, 1600 cond dmg, 41% crit chance, 2.8k armor and around 17k HP. I have found the added heal power very helpful for the regen providing a lot more staying power. I also carry a 2nd scepter and staff to change out the sigil I am currently using once my corruption stacks are full.
The real beauty of this setup is the flexibility it creates. I roam solo most of the time but when I group up into a small band of allies, I change out my Dom III trait for IV and my sig of dom for sig of inspiration to provide boons for my group.
Mag (PA)
Figrin the Healer (Guard), Angelic Renae (Mes), Death by Figrin (Thief)
I’ll tell more when I get home. I’m at school. Not everything is worked out and I am not an experienced mesmer. I got my mesmer to 80 about 5 days to a week ago.
Btw thanks for the advice on straight rabid and how it won’t really decrease survivability to not use any carrion. For the sake of OBTAINING the gear though, I might until I get enough fractal relics. Other than fractal relics, or dishing 4-15g a piece, how can I obtain Rabid trinkets?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
@armageddonash.6430 I know I will pick up prismatic understanding. I am more or less sure about the rest, but will 90% get Chaotic Dampening and the torch major.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
I’ll tell more when I get home. I’m at school. Not everything is worked out and I am not an experienced mesmer. I got my mesmer to 80 about 5 days to a week ago.
Btw thanks for the advice on straight rabid and how it won’t really decrease survivability to not use any carrion. For the sake of OBTAINING the gear though, I might until I get enough fractal relics. Other than fractal relics, or dishing 4-15g a piece, how can I obtain Rabid trinkets?
If you done alot of WvW you can buy them with like 5g and about 500Badges of Honor or go with Whispers the gear they sell is Tough/Pres/Condi (aka Rabid) gear
If you done alot of WvW you can buy them with like 5g and about 500Badges of Honor or go with Whispers the gear they sell is Tough/Pres/Condi (aka Rabid) gear[/quote]
Well… Lol I already spend then all on my current soldier’s gear. How long will fractals take to obtain these? My reward level is 1 since I never really did a lot of fractals and it’s a new 80 of mine.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
Well… Lol I already spend then all on my current soldier’s gear. How long will fractals take to obtain these? My reward level is 1 since I never really did a lot of fractals and it’s a new 80 of mine.
ALONG time Your other bet is Laurels for rings, neck and such. Maybe go on TP and get a rare set of gear until you re-earn enough Badges of Honor?
Okay. I’m not ruling out the possibility of fractals haha. Seriously, how long would that take. I’m not in A huge hurry. If you average out the week I would probably run like, 11 runs a week. Starting from square 1 how long?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
I don do many, i think you get about 10 minor ones and a level for each one you complete, you have to complete 10 before you can start saving up for the items so that is 10 days alone
Okay. I’m not ruling out the possibility of fractals haha. Seriously, how long would that take. I’m not in A huge hurry. If you average out the week I would probably run like, 11 runs a week. Starting from square 1 how long?
Assuming 11 runs a week, going up 1 level per run, you’d be at level 10 by the end of a week. At level 10, every time you complete the daily with the jade maw you’ll have a chance at getting a ring and get 1 token towards a ring. So, at the point you reach level 10, you’ll have 10 days for a guaranteed 1 ring. Once you reach level 20, you can run level a level 10-18 daily and a level 20-28 daily for a total of 2 tokens per day, so 5 days per ring.
Alright thank you! I’m not that educated on fractals haha. So, basically a little less than 3 weeks for one ring. I always wondered, other than dailies, how do you get accessories?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
Alright thank you! I’m not that educated on fractals haha. So, basically a little less than 3 weeks for one ring. I always wondered, other than dailies, how do you get accessories?
I knew that but I’m unfamiliar with TA haha. Up/up though… Is that easy? Or just stompable with a good group but that group skill curve makes a large large difference like in…. Say, AC?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
Prec/tough/vit/con on all trinkets. Everything else is rabid. You will reach 2.2k condi dmg with correct trait line and gear enhancement.
ONE WARNING
The weakest point of going full condi on mesmer… is that when enemies begin running, you will be helpless. You won’t have anything to finish them off even if they have 10% hp. And it will be annoying when your enemies starting rezzing their allies because you can’t do anything whereas rezzing is a deathbed for your enemies if you’re on shatter or phant build. So expect this to be a teamplay or you will be disappointed.
Alright. That is frustrating… I have to admit, however, I’m looking for a 1v1-3 build. Usually people don’t run until at LEAST you kill their buddy. I don’t know if Condi mes can offer this but I am looking for sustain with a bit of damage. Like 65% survivability and 35% offensive.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
@Overlord
I’ve played both of the suggested builds:
20/0/30/20/0 – Tou/Heal/Condi (T/H/C)
20/20/30/0/0 – Condi/Pre/Tou (C/P/T)
And I think that both suggestions are viable builds for 1v3ish in WvW. The decision that you have to make is do you want to swing further towards damage or regen’?
Osicat poses a good point, that you do get a good regen’ up time with the C/P/T build, but the T/H/C build will have a higher reliable up time and will tick higher; however the damage difference is noticeable with the precision and added bleeds in C/P/T.
On the point of obtaining rabid gear, don’t forget you can get the trinkets with karma from the temples (I think Lyssa for Rabid).
Also, Settlers trinkets & Apoth armor is super cheap.
The weakest point of going full condi on mesmer… is that when enemies begin running, you will be helpless. You won’t have anything to finish them off even if they have 10% hp. And it will be annoying when your enemies starting rezzing their allies because you can’t do anything whereas rezzing is a deathbed for your enemies if you’re on shatter or phant build. So expect this to be a teamplay or you will be disappointed.
Thats where weapons and utilities come into it. Magic Bullet, Mantra of Distraction and the 3second stun utility all have great range, then you have Blink as a gap closer as well.
You can always use Diversion as well, just because you are not a shatter spec doesnt mean you cant use them. I use both Diversion and Cry of Frustration alot. That is of course because i have both 6/6Perplexity as well as the 5point trait that means Cry of Frustration gives 6 stacks of Confusion as well as well as the 10point trait that gives me 5seconds of Retal per a clone shattered through Cry of Frustration.
I knew that but I’m unfamiliar with TA haha. Up/up though… Is that easy? Or just stompable with a good group but that group skill curve makes a large large difference like in…. Say, AC?
TA does have a learning curve, but it’s not Arah. My last TA Up was me and another experienced guy plus three first-timers, and we cleared it without difficulty.
I am not concerned about armor pieces. I think I may make myself a mystic wand or buy one. Other than that…. I will either earn all of then completely through dungeons or get lazy and buy them haha.
About that apothecary build, I will buy a set of rare/masterwork stat combo quality for them and test that out also against rabid in the future. But I will probably buy all that apothecary when I get online haha. What is the build used for it?
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
I tried the Blackwater build I was told about. Things are NOT going well at all. Perhaps it is operator error but I am not getting crap for damage… and can survive a good amount but I mean… REALLY!? I couldn’t hurt a fly. I was thinking about 1v2-4. I mean, I can hardly handle 1v1 if they use any conditions at all. I had to adapt it for more condi removal but it just, it just doesn’t get it done. All warriors kill me with their stupid condi builds, thieves either kill me with condis or are about to lose and run, necros, you might as well just start running because it isn’t going to end well.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
I tried the Blackwater build I was told about. Things are NOT going well at all. Perhaps it is operator error but I am not getting crap for damage… and can survive a good amount but I mean… REALLY!? I couldn’t hurt a fly. I was thinking about 1v2-4. I mean, I can hardly handle 1v1 if they use any conditions at all. I had to adapt it for more condi removal but it just, it just doesn’t get it done. All warriors kill me with their stupid condi builds, thieves either kill me with condis or are about to lose and run, necros, you might as well just start running because it isn’t going to end well.
Try the Osicat 4.0 condi build, with perplexity runes. Has strong pressure, with a huge amount of survivability and stealth. If you’re going up against a condi, consider switching out veil for mantra of resolve (4 condi cleanse every 20 seconds).
There’s actually been a lot of angst over these runes, as people believe them to be overpowered. They are (mostly), and I recommend enjoying them while they last.
Is it just me or is that warrior Condi build wayyyy OP. For real. SOO much Condi and soooo much survivability. 1vX it does fine as long as there isn’t too many other conditions he has to handle.
My name is Remy. I’m a proud member of Lion Knights. Defender of Borlis Pass.
80s: Mesmer, Engineer, Guardian.
In progress: Warrior 52.
