Guild Wars 2

Mesmer was never a “free kill” it pains me when people try to pretend that it was. Mesmers were not amazing in pvp because thief counter and point style capture. Even so, EU used mesmers quite often in high tier.

In an actual dueling scenario, mesmer was one of the strongest classes even before the patch…They were buffed to absurd levels post patch so now even mediocre mesmers can faceroll better players 1v1.

Too many baseline traits…

While I wont comment too much about the state of mesmer, I do find it hilarious that many of the statements made here was done by other classes in the past that people complained about. From warriors to Thieves to Eles… the train continues and has their own thoughts that they choose or choose not to agree with.

because they did like their easy class mode and now suddenly have to actually think instead of mindless spamming!

confusion used to punish 111111 spamming classes in wvw and blew entire zergs up because 1 nonone used condi cleanse and 2 nobody wanted to stop spamming skills and actually think for a moment… then anet gave in and we had the worst heavy meta in wvw because nothing could stop the warrior and guardian zergs. all they had to do was stability up and 1111111111112221111111111222 for the win.

spvp is similar.
thieves want to backstam , 22222 over and over and dont like changing up a bit. they love using zerk and 1-2 shot people…. mesmers now can actually aoe blind them stun them and interrupt their 222 spam and they sont like that. mesmers now sont always need to target so they dan deal dmg to thief, thei have aoe now with ip made baseline and omg mesmers can finally make use of f1-f4 vs thieves.

warriors are used to perma stunlock people while their healing signet keeps them to full health. mesmers now finally have damage sustain with all the new things…omg warrior cant just 11111 earthshaker earthshaker earthshaker earthshaker earthshaker anymore, they actually have to think now.

eles are not much complaining, because they themselves got a great buff and are really really tough to take down imo.

necros do have a reason to cry, as they still lack defensive skills like leaps or stealth or anything and so of course they dislike us as we can troll them all day long(but every class can atm)

engi: well they are sorta like mesmers and have many tricks and can even aoe moa. they dont wine as much about us but after all we are competition now and can take them on.

guards: i think they are still mad at us from back then wen guards were kinda meh and we destroyed them in wvw with out glamour and immortal mes builds

so yeah u see mesmers are a sorta trollish class that confuse the enemy and if u face a good mes, u really have to think twice before attacking as every mistake could be very punishing, but thats how mesmers are supposed to be….well just wait till chronomancers come out. people will actually have to think even more then as their brainless spamming will not be effective anymore

Here is my take in it, and mesmer balance in general. I have a lot of hours in this game and a good chunk of it on mesmer (used to main). These days I prefer to play a thief.

To answer your question, mesmer has always been hated for two reasons. Stealth and Clones.
Since its hard to counter stealth in this game people tend to dislike classes using it. It requires a lot of awareness and experience to anticipate stealth openings and not panic when getting bursted out of nowhere.
Clones have the same issue, you need to check the buff bars or look for specific movement to tell who the player is. Not really an issue for experienced players, but a nightmare for beginners.

Prepatch mesmer was surely one of the weaker classes, only a few top tier players were able to play it competitively and for most fights felt like an uphill battle. IMO the biggest issue was no reliable cleanse+somewhat weak sustain (assuming the prepatch shatter meta builds).
The class was in need of some buffs and I’m glad they got it. The best part is the increased build diversity from lockdown to bunker.

Mesmer postpatch feels a bit over the top, I want to say it almost doesn’t matter what build you run, you can make it work. Ofc some builds are still not viable or haven’t been tested properly yet. I do think however that since a few weeks have passed it is time to evaluate the currently developing meta builds.
Most people agree that while producing a pretty absurd stealth uptime, PU doesn’t bring enough to be top tier in PvP. With the overall higher DMG, it does seem to be pretty strong in WvW however and I’d argue that it needs adjustment there. What does need adjustment in PvP IMO is the stun on daze, having a range instant stun on demand feels to powerful with the other tools a mesmer has (range&stealth burst). The shatter DMG doesn’t seem to be too strong and I feel like the meta needs to develop further to judge it properly.

On a last note, I wish people could have serious discussions on the balance on classes here and not just either defend their classes and tell everyone how often they get nerfed/how long they were weak and use that as a justification for a class being too strong now, or on the other hand cry for over the top nerfs. A good balance will ultimately benefit all and make the game more enjoyable.

Some people using other classes were use to beating most Mes in PvP with ease. Now the playing field has been levelled a bit they don’t like it. Saying that I haven’t experienced any greater degree of rage after patch than I did before. From my experience warriors are the worst bad losers. Some of those guys will chew you out after you’ve beaten them fair and square in 1v1s. They find it insulting getting beaten by a Mes. I’ve found that in the moments when I get “into the zone” I’ve pulled off some crazy stuff. Even got accused of botting by some, and that was before the patch. People who persist with Mes are eventually rewarded, but it takes quite some time.

-100% more stealth
-Easier to get in stealth than thief
-If you kitten up go in stealth and reset the fight

#balanced

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

We can also trait for high damage + high defense now. now including stealth.
At last someone finally speaking the truth.

We also have a lot of blinds now, A lot of distortions now, A lot of reflects now.

The host of new shatter, reflect and evade traits coupled with Illusionary Persona becoming baseline have made Mesmers way more survivable. Since we’re able to stay in the battle longer, other professions (players really, it’s a whole new Mesmer on Mesmer game, too) are learning how to deal with us.

I will say that in group play, the burst of an interrupt Mesmer, especially one running Chaotic Interruption with Power Block, etc, is something that is far more dangerous than being Perma-stealthed in PU, which is more suited for duels and WvW roaming.

Either way, Mesmers have become much more slippery.

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

denis.9487:

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

What are you talking about? Most classes can’t do most of those, let alone all of those.

Two classes that come closest are thief, and ele. I find ele OP as well (at least they can’t invis spam)…And thief needs to melee you if they’re going to kill you so makes them far more risky to play. They also lack great CC’s (just basilisk venom).

Kagamiku.9731:

denis.9487:

messiah.1908:

yuo can blind melee class more easily
stealth more easily
you can burst 100-1 in 2 sec zerk armor
you have good range dmg
good invulnerability with sword and distortion
great cc and dmg while cc

what more do you need

i play memser and i hate mesmers

You listed all classes. The problem is Mesmer just entered into that same playing field.

What are you talking about? Most classes can’t do most of those, let alone all of those.

Lol besides stealth(thief engy mes ranger) but if u must be so specific I get it.

Also, engi stealth is only something they can use to escape or initiate, they don’t have enough access to it to use it regularly in combat. And ranger can only have stealth in longbow. All other ranger builds have no access to it.

When storm shout casted the last ESL he said that backpack’s success as mesmer, an alternative class for him was partially due to the current state of mesmer being like the former state of shoutbow. It’s so good that only average players can still be very effective for their team.

I’m very happy with the changes because we actually have some build diversity now. For the first time ever, mesmers in top tier pvp have been giving up deceptive evasion to play mantra builds that have almost as much damage as a pure illusions build but much more support.

Kagamiku.9731:

Also, engi stealth is only something they can use to escape or initiate, they don’t have enough access to it to use it regularly in combat. And ranger can only have stealth in longbow. All other ranger builds have no access to it.

Without a doubt the most annoying imo in wvw is a condition ranger using longbow plus trapper runes. Insane stealth speed impressive conditions cc with pets and good sustain.

But again when I chase I get owned. Just like the hate from pu. Sometimes you just need to walk the other way or get help. Not based on 1v1 encounters at all.

It is quite literally l2p. I know I sound somewhat bias in that assessment, but think about it. The class is based around confusion, (literal and the condition). We have more interrupt traits than any other class, we still remain in gw2 a class devoted to locking down opponents. Take all the “brokenness” of stealth and add a class that doesn’t attack you directly most of the time. Add in the general hate of AI.

We are the class that punishes people who lack restraint or experience, which is every new player ever.

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is quite literally l2p. I know I sound somewhat bias in that assessment, but think about it. The class is based around confusion, (literal and the condition). We have more interrupt traits than any other class, we still remain in gw2 a class devoted to locking down opponents. Take all the “brokenness” of stealth and add a class that doesn’t attack you directly most of the time. Add in the general hate of AI.

We are the class that punishes people who lack restraint or experience, which is every new player ever.

I think after the patch, experience is not even a factor anymore. The mesmer community should just accept the fact that we got the most out of everything.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.

IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”

This is blatantly wrong.

In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

PS: I am not asking for nerfs or anything. All I am pointing out is memsers were never weak pre patch.

StickerHappy.8052:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is quite literally l2p. I know I sound somewhat bias in that assessment, but think about it. The class is based around confusion, (literal and the condition). We have more interrupt traits than any other class, we still remain in gw2 a class devoted to locking down opponents. Take all the “brokenness” of stealth and add a class that doesn’t attack you directly most of the time. Add in the general hate of AI.

We are the class that punishes people who lack restraint or experience, which is every new player ever.

I think after the patch, experience is not even a factor anymore. The mesmer community should just accept the fact that we got the most out of everything.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.

IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”

This is blatantly wrong.

In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

PS: I am not asking for nerfs or anything. All I am pointing out is memsers were never weak pre patch.

I wouldn’t say strong I’d say needed flawless exacution. With the baseline and new traits we can afford to make a mistake and not take a dirt nap.

StickerHappy.8052:

Daniel Handler.4816:

It is quite literally l2p. I know I sound somewhat bias in that assessment, but think about it. The class is based around confusion, (literal and the condition). We have more interrupt traits than any other class, we still remain in gw2 a class devoted to locking down opponents. Take all the “brokenness” of stealth and add a class that doesn’t attack you directly most of the time. Add in the general hate of AI.

We are the class that punishes people who lack restraint or experience, which is every new player ever.

I think after the patch, experience is not even a factor anymore. The mesmer community should just accept the fact that we got the most out of everything.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.

IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)

This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”

This is blatantly wrong.

In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

PS: I am not asking for nerfs or anything. All I am pointing out is memsers were never weak pre patch.

It’s complete bullkitten saying the only problem of mesmer before patch is thief. ICan’t believe this is from some one who mains mesmer

Our strongest meta build, power shatter is only built for team fight and portal. It is incredible hard to land any damage unless you have a thief/engi teammate who knows what he is doing. Without their cc, you are pretty much a non-factor. The 1v1 ability is bad, the only 1v1 matchup you should be willing to take is against engi. Even against engi, you will give up the cap and there is no guarantee that you can have upper hand at same skill level. Against ele or necro, you might be able to fight if you get a perfect opening. Against shoutbow or medi guard, it is hopeless. Your only choice is to rotate somewhere else.

I could argue that in unranked/ranked play, thief is not even the biggest problem for mesmer. The biggest is that the lack of teamwork completely nullifies any effort you make.

You eather love it or hate it. Simple as that.
But I would say there was more “annoyingness” with mesmer in GW1.
People who can play it – love it, people who can’t kill it – hate it.

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Because currently, Mesmer is a top tier profession for the first time in history, and no one knows how to process this change. Well maybe they were a thing pre-glamour/confusion nerf but still… it’s be a long time.

Like with every other class post-revamp, there’s probably a few things on our class that should be… re-balanced.

Thats an easy one. Power shatter Mesmers nearly got their full trait setup baseline. Now they can take all the fancy multipliers and/or PU they ever wanted. Honestly i don’t think it will last but it sure is fun oneshotting people in godmode.

Dunno about condi.

Pride.1734:

Thats an easy one. Power shatter Mesmers nearly got their full trait setup baseline. Now they can take all the fancy multipliers and/or PU they ever wanted. Honestly i don’t think it will last but it sure is fun oneshotting people in godmode.

Dunno about condi.

Another hater coming to trash Mesmer in the forums. Correct ip was made baseline to help Mesmer use our class mechanic since shattering pre patch a very rigid trait line with no room to choose anything else. With post patch Mesmer can shatter but now has access to some form of sustain wether pu(hated by all who don’t understand, Mesmer can still burst with or without from stealth) or inspiration for more condition clearing. It is far from godmode this might just be a simple learn to play issue along with having all stat combinations reduced since they are off trait lines for all classes.

Yea yea IP… and additional bounces was made baseline and manipulation range increase was made baseline and illusions +15% dmg was made baseline and shatter reductions baseline. Those might have slipped your mind
+ some stronger multipliers with the edited traits.

I love to play my mesmer in all three gametypes, especially in roaming and and im not suggesting that they should remove the IP baseline, it is a good change, but seriously the numbers need some tweaking. With full ascended zerk on my mesmer i even one shot unprepared heavy armor targets easily.

Pride.1734:

Yea yea IP… and additional bounces was made baseline and manipulation range increase was made baseline and illusions +15% dmg was made baseline and shatter reductions baseline. Those might have slipped your mind
+ some stronger multipliers with the edited traits.

I love to play my mesmer in all three gametypes, especially in roaming and and im not suggesting that they should remove the IP baseline, it is a good change, but seriously the numbers need some tweaking. With full ascended zerk on my mesmer i even one shot unprepared heavy armor targets easily.

If by unaware you ment afk then sure. It has been 3 weeks and I have found that most people who fight players have adjusted.

No i mean stealth.
(Honestly you might start by improving your manners when you want to be taken seriously.)

denis.9487:

Pride.1734:

Thats an easy one. Power shatter Mesmers nearly got their full trait setup baseline. Now they can take all the fancy multipliers and/or PU they ever wanted. Honestly i don’t think it will last but it sure is fun oneshotting people in godmode.

Dunno about condi.

Another hater coming to trash Mesmer in the forums. Correct ip was made baseline to help Mesmer use our class mechanic since shattering pre patch a very rigid trait line with no room to choose anything else. With post patch Mesmer can shatter but now has access to some form of sustain wether pu(hated by all who don’t understand, Mesmer can still burst with or without from stealth) or inspiration for more condition clearing. It is far from godmode this might just be a simple learn to play issue along with having all stat combinations reduced since they are off trait lines for all classes.

Baseline traits are already enough to make us stronger.
IP,IE,Manipulation Range, Glamour CD, 15%Phantasm Damage, Protective Mantras, Mantras are now auto charging (I forgot how to name this one)
This is ALL without the new powerful traits we have gotten. So the people saying that “Oh mesmer gotten buffed, so other people needs to fight them better now”
This is blatantly wrong.
In my opinion, mesmer was never weak pre-patch, the only problem we had before was the thief hard counter, and we are overshadowed by thieves in a team" <- this is pvp wise.

You can have a build with a lot of blinds + sustain + dmg

Just admit it guys, We got overbuffed compared to other classes.

Pride.1734:

No i mean stealth.
(Honestly you might start by improving your manners when you want to be taken seriously.)

I still mean most players have adjusted. It is not as easy as it was 3 weeks ago. The stealth was pre patch also. So again my manners might be poor but just irritated with all the distress from Mesmer actually being viable and how it is welcomed. I say viable not op or godmode. Again all classes need stats looked at since being taken off trait lines. Then see where we stand.

denis.9487:

Pride.1734:

No i mean stealth.
(Honestly you might start by improving your manners when you want to be taken seriously.)

I still mean most players have adjusted. It is not as easy as it was 3 weeks ago. The stealth was pre patch also. So again my manners might be poor but just irritated with all the distress from Mesmer actually being viable and how it is welcomed. I say viable not op or godmode. Again all classes need stats looked at since being taken off trait lines. Then see where we stand.

I have 3k games with mesmer, and I find them the most hard to fight for me.

Pre patch stealth blow ups was all we had. So nothing has changed except some much needed sustain to allow us to actually fight back if our set up burst was avoided. (Clone went after a bunny)etc.

Pride.1734:

Yea yea IP… and additional bounces was made baseline and manipulation range increase was made baseline and illusions +15% dmg was made baseline and shatter reductions baseline. Those might have slipped your mind
+ some stronger multipliers with the edited traits.

I love to play my mesmer in all three gametypes, especially in roaming and and im not suggesting that they should remove the IP baseline, it is a good change, but seriously the numbers need some tweaking. With full ascended zerk on my mesmer i even one shot unprepared heavy armor targets easily.

And my power necro in WvW can 1 shot all zerkers except warrior even when I get caught with my pants down. My ele has been responsible for whole party wipes in zergs and roaming can swing losing fights extremely well.

Lets also not forget the reasons for things being made baseline. In all classes things were made baseline because of a few reasons, the most prominent 2 were:
1. Classes felt they needed to take that trait to actually use X
2. There were just too many traits that affected a singular aspect.

The unfortunate reality is mesmer had a lot falling into these categories, IP and IE being the most common. Recharge on glamours mainly because half of them are over 60s! Range on manipulations because once again, so many people took it as it felt needed to function.

A case can be made about the phantasm damage being 15% baseline and 15% from traits should have been weighted more to the trait. However anyone who plays mesmer can tell you exactly how long phantasms last and a lot of the time they don’t compare to the damage of equivalent skills on other classes.

Needless to say, many classes got baseline changes too some, one can argue, were already extremely strong and didn’t need the increase in power. Needless to say it fit into the categories above and so got made baseline.

Additionally you skipped over the changes:
Mental Anguish is a nerf if you don’t fulfil the “not using skills” part.
Wastrels was changed and is a buff in PvE but mostly a nerf in PvP.
Compounding power stayed the same.
Any modifiers you think were buffed or added that affect PvP? I certainly don’t think we can chuck phantasmal haste or harmonious mantras in there as I don’t see many running it for the pitiful damage buff. Fencers finesse is once again a very PvE focused trait, you’ll only get that ~7% ferocity bonus from blurred frenzy on 2 targets in PvP mostly and only for a few seconds.

I actually do think Harmonious Mantras is a legit PvP/WvW damage buff, buuuut you have to pick it over DE, which is another huge damage buff since it makes it easier to do a big shatter or double-shatter. Having the top end of dueling include multiple competing damage buffs is not a bad idea.

Sort of but generally I don’t often see a mantra buff of more than 2-3 stacks which is a 12% mesmer damage buff. The duration of it though is quite small, coupled with the way damage is shifted between phantasms and the mesmer it makes it hard to rely judge. I dunno how it interplays with shatters but like you say, it competes with DE which certainly makes it competitive to say the least.

I feel I need to put something on topic now.

Mesmer beat me with girly pink flutterbys, I’m manly man who shouldn’t be beaten by such panzies RAWR!

Time to head back from the chasm of Sar.

apharma.3741:

snip

Again, i agree with the baseline changes.
It is very much appreciated that we can finally have build freedom now. Its just our numbers that are off.

As for multipliers. The old Shatter was something like 44006
The new mesmer, the way i run it (Dueling Illusions Domination full offense like the old build.) now gets these added perks:

+10% shatter crit
+0,5% dmg pro vul stack
+10% dmg when the target isnt channeling skills ( ambush and/or interrupt; lets face it its not that hard for mesmers to achieve)
+Perma Fury >75% with Master Fencer < Honestly i think this is the biggest offender
+Phantasmal Fury
As a result we also run full zerkers without any assasins now.

And while they are no real dmg increases its worth mentioning.
Blind
Longer vul 5>8
Projectile reflect
Cripple
Some condi stuff

I’n no maths genious but i can feel the difference. I mean the damage was already pretty good before.

Wastrels is actually a buff, as we both know it was practically impossible to take this due to mesmers having no build freedom. And now its just part of Mental Anguish with another multiplier added in its stead.

PS: i wanna see the necro that can 1 shot you in half a second out of nowhere.
I mean sure they can, but they need more time, have obvious animations and you can humanly react to it to save yourself with a few cooldowns. Mesmer Necro and Engi are my favourite chars but honestly there is just so much wrong with Necro atm that i don’t even want to go there.
In short i spend most of my time on Mesmer now and i eat Necros.

People have always hated Mesmers, our mechanics make us a rather difficult fight on any level. People hate us more now because some of our bad skills/traits/builds have been made good and some of our good skills/traits/builds have become great.

Some of the rage is justified (instant stealth oneshot bursts), but most of it really isn’t.

While some people have legitimate concerns, the majority of the rage comes from angry parrots who don’t really understand the class much at all.

Just realised that there’s a lot of forum posts appearing in this forum for a couple of minutes to an hour and then disappearing like pink butterflies after a shatter.

Is the mesmer hate really that strong?

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Because Lockdown is so easy to play, shatter even more.
for a low lvl player (pvp pov): You make high “burst” (with so low cd, it is more “high sustain damage”) and you have a good sustain.
for a high lvl player: quite invuln.
So much reflect/interrupt/damage. And I don’t even talk about condi mesmers which are just easy bunkers.

It is so easy to play now with so much damage, not anymore high risk/ high reward, it is not interesting anymore to play my mesmer.

basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Currently the only way to get down a mesmer: He does not clear condi, and you apply high condi pressure thanks to burning, but burning is going to get the nerf hammer.

We asked for a buff, Anet did it OP. Let’s swing the “balance hammer”.

Mesmers are in a really good state now and I don’t see any nerfs… but then again, ANet likes to nerf this class more than any other it seems.

With that said, Confounding Suggestions and Power Block are probably the best traits to choose. The guaranteed stun every 5 seconds for 1 second is just too good, followed by 3k halting strike damage from Power Block. Add in Harmonious Mantras and you have ridiculous burst (followed up with Mind Wrack).

I pretty much stopped playing my Mesmer since the update hit because there’s not a lot of challenge with it at the moment. Power/CI builds pretty much play themselves and bad players are now being shown in the light as being good. This is why people are hating on this class because before, you had to really push to be good at Mesmer and bad players were easily killed.

Now there are Mesmers who were bad and running the right build are killing people at a higher rate than before.

The only things I’d change with Mesmer would be:
1) Blinding Dissipation being fixed so that you can actually evade it
2) Confounding Suggestions – increase the charge timer to 10 seconds
3) Power Block/Halting Strike – decrease damage slightly(5/10%)

Overall, I’ll say we got the best trait change out of any other class and I don’t see this being changed anytime soon… which is a good thing.

Nieguen.6235:

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Because Lockdown is so easy to play, shatter even more.
for a low lvl player (pvp pov): You make high “burst” (with so low cd, it is more “high sustain damage”) and you have a good sustain.
for a high lvl player: quite invuln.
So much reflect/interrupt/damage. And I don’t even talk about condi mesmers which are just easy bunkers.

It is so easy to play now with so much damage, not anymore high risk/ high reward, it is not interesting anymore to play my mesmer.

basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.
Currently the only way to get down a mesmer: He does not clear condi, and you apply high condi pressure thanks to burning, but burning is going to get the nerf hammer.

We asked for a buff, Anet did it OP. Let’s swing the “balance hammer”.

Exactly!

Mesmer is an awesome profession but right now it’s simply ridiculous to fight against it even when you got thousands of hours of exp on your main and have faced tons of mesmers in your career. I get that it is fun to feel godmode but if challenges is what you crave you could pick a better profession atm IMHO.

Ppl asked why the hate for mesmer right now? I got nothing vs mesmers. On the contrary. However, I hate feeling next to powerless despite having 4k hours on my main even vs obviously far from top-notch mesmers and I think anybody would too.

Nieguen.6235:

basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.

Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).

You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.

phokus.8934:

I pretty much stopped playing my Mesmer since the update hit because there’s not a lot of challenge with it at the moment. Power/CI builds pretty much play themselves and bad players are now being shown in the light as being good. This is why people are hating on this class because before, you had to really push to be good at Mesmer and bad players were easily killed.

Now there are Mesmers who were bad and running the right build are killing people at a higher rate than before.

Short of WvW zerg frontlines, every build in this game is basically either “high burst + CC” or “immortal condi kitten.” Those are the only builds worth running.

It’s pretty comical to complain about scrubs being carried by a build when, like, literally that’s the entire game except for the lowest of the low trash tiers where people don’t even know how to set up a tolerable build. That’s what good builds just do.

I’m down for a CS nerf (reduce Power Lock daze duration to 1/2 sec, perhaps?). But some of y’all are crying like the sky is falling and mesmers are crushing everyone under their fabulously-attired feet when “cc → ded” is like half the meta.

In WvW there is this nice hate (enemy)/ love (yours) Mesmer relationship.
I would say we are less hated than thieves in roaming.
We are not as targeted by zergs as a lone roaming rangers.
We are the hated vile kittens after tower and keep flip.

I love the mesmer class (I main mesmer and warrior) and I am certainly happy they have their place now as an actual threat in tpvp after being thief bait for so long.

That being said, the class itself right now does not require much skill. With the abundance of options in stealth up time, boon removal, extremely high damage output, reflect and escapes, mesmer is a force to be reckoned with even in the hands of an inexperienced player. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t play mesmer, its a very fun and enjoyable class, but it’s about on the same skill level as other classes now.

DrDivine.5378:

it’s about on the same skill level as other classes now.

Err, good?

I mean, every class should be a class worth playing, accessible to anyone who likes the general style and flow of it.

The way to show off your skill level is to win, not to play trashy stuff.

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Cause this person doesnt play one, even 1 bit, thus is unable to tell the difference between illusions and the actual player. Once you get the hang of how mesmers work you will know how to combat them on various professions, but you have to have the knowledge 1st.

Honestly, illusions are pretty trivial to grasp without even picking up mesmer:
1. They just stand there and auto-attack.
2. They usually don’t have all the buffs/status effects the caster does.
3. Their hp melts if you hit them.
4. You don’t lose target on the real mesmer unless they go into stealth, anyway.
5. If you see them all run towards you, dodge when they are close.
6. Nowadays there are no clone-death effects so don’t worry too much about blowing them up by accident; just don’t waste bursts on them thinking they are the player.

Tristan.5280:

So i recently start playng with my mesmer in pvp, and in one of my first match one of my teammates told me that i am using an OP class and started telling baad things of me. And this happened to others matches and other players too.

Why all this hate? I though that the most hated class was thief, not mesmer

btw, i was using a burst shatter build that a friend of mine suggested me. Is that build so OP?

Actually it was Rangers that carried ALOT of hate for a long time, Thief doesnt get that much hate really.

Mesmers currently are very strong Might stacking builds holding 10k dmg a swing ALOT and PU is quite abusable currently, its Overpowered slightly but i wouldnt say ridiculously OP or unmanagable at all, Ramapage Warrior is Defintly more OP.

All proffessions have ups and downs and get shares of hate on their ups just block players being idiots about the situation there mindless idiots who just blame proffessions for their Lacking.

I’ve fought many mesmers and managed to win plenty of times so i dont see the problem with them really tbh.. Just PU and power creep issues currently.. alot of classes have broken mechanics currently they’re being sorted out but i dont think mesmers really need any Nerfs other then PU.

ASP.8093:

Nieguen.6235:

basically: you are a thief attacking from 1200 range, with invuln/reflect.

Attacking at 1200 range greatly reduces your burst potential. Greatsword is ranged pressure but its real 100-to-0 burst capability is almost all melee (Mirror Blade into a shatter).

You can Blink in for the burst but then you’re sacrificing your best escape/positioning tool. It’s very much an “all-in” kind of move. Shatter Mesmers could always do it (there are some great videos!), the only thing that really changed now is Confounding Suggestions making the burst easier to stick, and trait changes allowing builds other than 4/4/0/0/6 to be playable without having rubbish damage output.

I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.

Nieguen.6235:

I think you understood my point. It was meaning “starting from”. And sorry but it was not rubbish at all pre-patch. You just needed to know what you were doing. Because one error and you were dead.
Whereas mesmer now: high reward without any skill.

A build where you need your opponent’s mistakes to really pile up to take advantage of them, whereas one of your own gets you killed, is kinda bad. It can be fun and exciting and nerve-wracking in all the best ways. But it’s also straight-up kinda bad.