(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)
Before I get Frostfang
Just to note that based on some findings and discussions over the past few days, the Sup. Rune of Lich and Sup. Rune of Nightmare give 20% condition duration as a 4 rune bonus. So for your above scenario, you can go 4x Nightmare 2x Mad king, and have 30% all conditions from just your runes.
Add in the 40% pizza, and you are now at 70%. If you want to take 30 in spite already, there you go, and you didn’t need to use those garbage giver’s weapons.
Personally that is a build I want to try out and see how it goes. My biggest issue is finding a way to make that build work without leaning to hard on the rampagers gear and getting roflstomped in WvW. I tend to find that if I am using Axe/X and Dagger/X, that not having any points in the toughness tree is pretty suicidal. Also buffing up your conditions and durations seems counter productive when both Axe and Dagger are horrible at applying damaging conditions.
I guess we would need some more information on how you want to play this build. Are you going for +100% condition duration purely for vulnerability and chill extension? Just from reading what gear you are using, I’m not really understanding the 30 in curses. Terror isn’t great without any +condition damage, so seems like a wasted trait. Really, it seems like you are more going down this line for the precision (weakness crits, good..but seems you’re sacrificing a lot of points to get it) since you aren’t gaining a whole lot else. IMO, you would be more benefited by putting those points in another line… maybe soul reaping and/or blood magic (if doing daggers) and boosting precision through a mixed armor/jewelry set and/or food.
Just my two cents.
Also, looking at this for PvE, PvP, WvW?
~Kheldar
Marked Souls
Marked Souls
Superior Runes of the Lich’s 4th add-on is either bugged or has a tool-tip error and provides +16% condition duration making it +20% for a 4 set.
x2 Superior Rune of Lyssa and x4 Superior Runes of the Lich would give:
+25 Precision
+10% Condition Duration
+25 Vitality
+4% Condition Duration
+50 Vitality
+16% Condition Duration
With 30 points in the Spite tree, a Rare Veggie Pizza and your 1 Giver’s weapon you’ll hit +110% condition duration although only +90% is required to achieve the extra ticks on DoT skills and +1 full second to conditions.
I would recommend a build similar to this for dagger condition if your still on the fence with builds:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRAnd4YjMah6Vaaa0bKgJFcPO0jcx154DFTLA;ToAKiMFJKySkjIJRLCGEsBZCC
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
(edited by Ascii.9726)
With 30 points in the Spite tree, a Rare Veggie Pizza and your 1 Giver’s weapon you’ll hit +110% condition duration although only +90% is required to achieve the extra ticks on DoT skills and +1 full second to conditions.
I have tested extensively around the 90% duration and barbed precision, and I cannot get it to tick a second time (not mentioning terror, it works differently). Without using runes of the lich/nightmare, how do you get 2 ticks of bleeding from barbed precision without 100% duration? What rune/food/item combination makes this work?
I ask because I have tested and re-tested numerous times and it will not give the second tick in any cases I have tested BUT the presumed to be bugged lich/nightmare runes.
I was quoting from a post i saw yesterday about achieving the second fear tick.
This is because the game rounds up float points. The durations for conditions always are modified in quarter of a second intervals, so when it comes to achieving 7.5/8ths of a full 2 second fear, you only need roughly 86% cduration.
Easiest way to get second tick.. 2 lyssa, 2 mad king, rare veg pizza, 20 points in spite. You’ll get it every time.
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
It depends on how you plan playing this build. I can tell you for WvW its going to be suicidal as your full glass cannon and you will go down fast, I tried a similar glass cannon build and found myself to be too squishy.
From what I gather if your running around with Axe/Focus as your primary then trait wise your probably better not taking Chill of Death and instead using Spiteful Talisman and use the Focus to do the Chill. I also know that combining the Axe Master and Reapers Might can get you some nice damage output. If you run in a group who have alot of Vuln stacking I have seen my Axe 2 go over the 4k mark but the enemy really needs alot of stacks on it before ive seen it hit that. Normally its anywhere between 2.5 to 3.5k but you may squeeze more out dependant on Power and Crit.
As I said earlier between lack of large health pool and lack of toughness your going to leave yourself very squishy. If its for PVE running around then it shouldn’t be an issue, in dungeons you will more than likely die alot. sPVP you might get away with it but I will be honest in that I don’t do alot of sPVP. For WvW I reckon you will also die alot unless your really good because we lack Stability and alot of avoidance when we are in the mix.
Axere – lvl 80 Necro
Nemmeister – lvl 80 Engineer
Jay Knot – lvl 80 Warrior | Rusty Colt – lvl 80 Thief
Nemmeister – lvl 80 Engineer
Jay Knot – lvl 80 Warrior | Rusty Colt – lvl 80 Thief
I was quoting from a post i saw yesterday about achieving the second fear tick.
This is because the game rounds up float points. The durations for conditions always are modified in quarter of a second intervals, so when it comes to achieving 7.5/8ths of a full 2 second fear, you only need roughly 86% cduration.
Easiest way to get second tick.. 2 lyssa, 2 mad king, rare veg pizza, 20 points in spite. You’ll get it every time.
Yeah I was hoping to get him to reply to me from that thread on the barbed precision side of the conditions. I cannot see any rounding taking place at all, and as was discussed earlier in that thread, the terror damage tick is tied to the bleed tick, which is independent of the normal 2 second duration.
I don’t think any to-the-nearest rounding on condition damage occurs in the game. It always seems to round down to the nearest second. Again not talking about terror because of how it intereacts with conditions already on the target.
I’ve just done some testing in mists on barbed precision vs 90 – 100% condition duration and your correct all from 90 to 99% duration (20 spite and going up by 1 each time) didn’t provide the second tick on barbed precision but it did at 100%
Maybe this is specific with this trait only.
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
The build is intended for PvE/WvW (Legendaries can’t be used in PvP, and the entire point is actually showing off the legendary :p)
Condition duration is not best used with damaging conditions, but Terror will still tick for 700+ just with the stats you get from Curses line. I will swap it out when I go with more blinding skills (such as Plague and WoD) Geting the +100% duration is for things like a 6 second immobilize on Dark Pact (which Epidemic makes really fun) or obnoxious 10 second chills on Spinal Shivers or perma-weakness from Withering Precision. Plus, Frostfang has a 30% chance to chill on crit due to its sigil.
As for runes, yeah, I remembered the Nightmare/Lich tooltip error after I had posted the OP. Would probably swap to Lich instead of either mad king or lyssa. That would let me pick a different set of stats for off-hand (although the mix of precision and vitality is not bad). That said, I already have the focus, mad king, and lyssa runes, so the switch will not happen immedietly.
Even so, the equipment is not very “glass cannon” as it would be mostly Knights and Soldier’s gear.
Giver’s weapons duration bonus is bugged anyway. One of several threads on the topic(no response from Anet):
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Giver-s-10-Condition-Duration-doesn-t-work
You got to keep in mind a portion of axe damage comes from Retalition which scales off of your power.
The Hybrid dosnt work so well currently and the glass cannon only works with Dagger (Dagger+Full Berserkers)
Axe is better with Might stacking, BiP+Reapers Might+Sigil of Strength or others.
The #2 and #3 are good but #1 is pretty abyssmal.
Any of the offhands can work at least.
I was not impressed with might stacking and retaliation to be quite honest. The bonus it get from power is VERY minor. Even with 2500 power, 15 stacks of might, etc, I only recorded retalation hitting around 420 or so. Passive and active healing is going to outpace that easily against someone playing smart and using big hits only.
When you can easily be hit by a thief for 5000, even in full PVT gear, it is fairly useless. I realize its a passive effect, and as such they do not want a “thorns” build to be overpowered, but I mean come on…. you spec as heavily as you can to make that retaliation damage better, and its equivalent to a condition build on a mesmer with 1 stack of confusion.
I was not impressed with might stacking and retaliation to be quite honest. The bonus it get from power is VERY minor. Even with 2500 power, 15 stacks of might, etc, I only recorded retalation hitting around 420 or so. Passive and active healing is going to outpace that easily against someone playing smart and using big hits only.
When you can easily be hit by a thief for 5000, even in full PVT gear, it is fairly useless. I realize its a passive effect, and as such they do not want a “thorns” build to be overpowered, but I mean come on…. you spec as heavily as you can to make that retaliation damage better, and its equivalent to a condition build on a mesmer with 1 stack of confusion.
I see closer to 600+ damage personaly, but its additional damage to all targets attacking you which vrs players can help.
Btw Thief is a terrible comparison to make since that professions mechanics are the exact opposite of ours and is practicaly designed to kill Necros. I see plenty of other classes out there that can do just as much damage or more then them. (You can easily make a dagger necro who does as much damage as a Thief, we both have the same dagger #1 skill they spam)
I was not impressed with might stacking and retaliation to be quite honest. The bonus it get from power is VERY minor. Even with 2500 power, 15 stacks of might, etc, I only recorded retalation hitting around 420 or so. Passive and active healing is going to outpace that easily against someone playing smart and using big hits only.
When you can easily be hit by a thief for 5000, even in full PVT gear, it is fairly useless. I realize its a passive effect, and as such they do not want a “thorns” build to be overpowered, but I mean come on…. you spec as heavily as you can to make that retaliation damage better, and its equivalent to a condition build on a mesmer with 1 stack of confusion.
I see closer to 600+ damage personaly, but its additional damage to all targets attacking you which vrs players can help.
Btw Thief is a terrible comparison to make since that professions mechanics are the exact opposite of ours and is practicaly designed to kill Necros. I see plenty of other classes out there that can do just as much damage or more then them. (You can easily make a dagger necro who does as much damage as a Thief, we both have the same dagger #1 skill they spam)
Theif damage isn’t coming from dagger #1 chain, it comes from Steal, CnD, Backstab. Personally I have never run a zerker build for a necro as it would be suicidal in any wvw scenario, but I guarantee it cannot deal the damage that combo can on a thief, and with the added benifits of stealth. You are talking about easily 15k+ damage from that combo against even a moderate toughness player, in less than 3 seconds.
In a zerker well bomb necro, you would be on your 2nd well drop by the time that 3 seconds has gone by assuming you could get into melee range and they didn’t dodge your dagger 3 or cleanse it. Since you haven’t even started dagger 1 spam at this point the damage is hardly comparable.
Not saying necros should be able to deal damage comparable to glass cannon thieves, but to conclude they are similar in scale is not even close.
? a full zerk necro who lands his wells and hits can come close or even beat a glass thiefs burst. Although it takes 6 seconds, great use of cc, and all of your utillities, and your elite lol . if the have a stunbreaker with a tele you will fail hard.
Point still is Thief mechanicaly speaking is literaly designed to counter all our abilities and kill us.
We cant do enough direct damage/stack conditions because of stealth. Thief has the best condition cleanses in the game when it comes to us.
Thief is designed to burst a target down really fast and then have the ability to escape. Necromancer is designed to be attrition where the longer the fight is the better their chances of winning become.
I think Thief does the former just a bit too good in the current build, its difficult to counter Stealth on a Necro while we can reliably counter the other classes burst potential but still they are Scissors to the Necros Paper.
Then again I only get beat by Thief in WvW when im alone and trying to 1v1 them so take that as you will.
At least dealing with thieves 1v1, I rarely have problems in WvW. The problem comes when said thief has backup that culling prevented me from seeing (usually in the form of an ele or warrior, usually multiples).
Then again, once I swap to using the build I mentioned in the OP, I will have to re-learn it some.
I have been thinking about this and have decided to re-tune my build idea.
Frostfang (Sigil of Ice)/Berserker’s Focus (undecided sigil, one of either Sigil of Ice, Accuracy, or Perception)
Knight’s Dagger (Sigil of Blood)/Valkrie’s dagger (undecided sigil)
Armor is Knight’s armor
Runes are 2* Lyssa (possible swap for mad king), 4* Lich
Rings are Royakl Signet of Doric and Lost Seal of Usoku
Accessories are Rampagers.
Amulet, I will have to see what new Ascended options there are.
All Infusions will probably be set to Precision boosters.
Consumables will include Skale Venom, Rare Veggie Pizza, and either maitenence oil or sharpening stone, dependant on my final crit chance.
Traits are 30/15/0/15/10
Spite: Reaper’s Might, Spiteful Talisman, Axe Mastery
Curses: Chilling Darkness or Weakening Shroud
Blood Magic: Dagger Mastery
Soul Reaping: Unyielding Blast
Any thoughts or suggestions? Sigils especially would be welcome for suggestions.
I find it worrying how many of you think a glass thief beats a berserker necro. They really don’t. In 3 months of playing a berserker necro, I have not once lost 1v1 to a glass thief, it is literally the easiest build/class to kill, simply because we have 40k+ hp and rather high melee dps, which means we can just kill them faster then they can kill us. In the few times they’ve managed to down me, I’ve always won the downed war thanks to our shockingly strong downed 3 skill.
I find it worrying how many of you think a glass thief beats a berserker necro. They really don’t. In 3 months of playing a berserker necro, I have not once lost 1v1 to a glass thief, it is literally the easiest build/class to kill, simply because we have 40k+ hp and rather high melee dps, which means we can just kill them faster then they can kill us. In the few times they’ve managed to down me, I’ve always won the downed war thanks to our shockingly strong downed 3 skill.
How the hell you get 40k HP from a zerker necro..And you prob didn’t fight a good BS thief or P/D.
How the hell you get 40k HP from a zerker necro..And you prob didn’t fight a good BS thief or P/D.
deathshroud… I have more LF then HP, and if they do their combo into you during it, you hp doesn’t go down, which means HS does minimum damage. And yes, surely I haven’t fought a single ‘good’ thief ever while on SOS.
I never mentioned anything about P/D thief, that is a completely different story, and is the most difficult build/class for me to kill, although usually they don’t kill me either, but I’m forced to disengage.
As a request, can we please get back on topic? I updated the OP with the current build plan, having dropped the Giver’s weapons entirely. I am looking for sigil suggestions primarily for the off-hand.
Remember: a sigil of Ice on the focus nets me a 51% chance on crit to cause chill (2 seconds base, now 4 seconds since the duration is doubled).