Guild Wars 2

Rym (and others) you forgot the context : he said that staff is not effective in some burst scenarios.

I have a question about Tormentor rune choice: why not giving up 100 condition damage for +20% duration on every condition, not just fear ? Sounds juicy.

Also, as shown in Rennoko’s Terror Data thread for 100% extra duration on fears, when we already have 50% from master of terror, 20% from runes and a 1.15 multiplier from sigil, we just need at least 5 points in spite for guaranteed extra tick. So maybe instead of 0/30/20/0/20 it could be interesting to go 10/30/10/0/20 ? Especially when we can’t control that reaper’s protection fear, and it can easily waste a 90 sec CD (Im torn because 4 sec fear in crazy good). Or maybe 5/25/20/0/20 or 10/20/20/0/20…

What gear would you reccomend for a WvW variant of the Potentate build?

NapoleonMP.7964:

Off topic real quick can you PM people on game if your on a different server?

Yup, you can even party up and chat with players from other regions, they just won’t get instance pop-ups

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Spectral Armor is still bad. Spectral Walk is also bad. Well of Darkness provides far more team support and personal survivability. It also chills opponents allowing for stronger condition chains and control.

For instance, I can chill an opponent, place a Spectral Wall behind them, then fear them into it, Deathshroud 5, then Deathshroud 2 to teleport to them, then turn them around and guide them back into the Wall again for another second of fear. Not possible without Chill, and Well of Darkness just makes it that much easier. Plus blind is awesome, and highly useful for saving one’s skin, or stomping.

Well of Darkness does not chill unless you trait it and in your tormentor build you do not have it traited, as for spectral armor a reduction of a 30 seconds on its cool down for a stun break, protection, and life force on damage is great I do not see how its bad.

Encanis.4031:

Infect.2738:

This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.

Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great

You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.

Mammoth.1975:

Encanis.4031:

Infect.2738:

This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.

Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great

You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMah7dbub87JEpCPD0jdBXAxoHHTwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xGBA

NapoleonMP.7964:

Thanks for this post Altroll. I’m a engie coming into necro lands after getting ate up in zerg battles in wvw by yall. I believe its by wells, but I’m not 100% on that by any means. Is staff more a condition weapon? The range concerns me on the Wellomancer is all. I don’t really care if i run a power build or condition build but prefer to be on the outside of battle not in the middle. ( I get tunnel vision and in the middle of a enemy zerg that leaves me dead.) What is your suggestion for a zerg necro. Thanks ahead of time for any responses.

In a WvW situation, Wellmancers are not very strong, even in zergs. Wellmancer builds work extremely effectively in tPvP due to the fact that opponents have to stand on points to capture them, but, obviously in WvW, opponents have alot more room to navigate your killing fields. If you want to be on the outside looking in, I’d recommend a variation of Tormentor:

20/20/10/0/20

Make sure to keep Terror, and Master of terror from the original build and instead of “Weakening Shroud” since you’ll be from a distance, I’d recommend you take something else. I’d also recommend you take Spectral Walk instead of Well of Darkness.

Rym.1469:

Passive aggressive insults.

Firstly, Staff is terribad on Berserker builds since all it can really do is CC, condition cleanse, and Putrid mark. If you switch to staff, your damage goes completely down, also Axe/Focus is superior since you can use it against downed opponents to recharge life force, stack double bloodlust, and strip boons. It’s simply ignorance to think Staff can be useful in tPvP as a Berserker.

Secondly, I mispoke, Spectral Walk is good. However it’s a very selfish good. I prefer WoD because it’s an immense aid for team, and yourself, cutting damage done to you in half. You can either go for Spectral Walk and have a double stun breaker, or go for Well of Darkness to have insane damage mitigation for your team.

Thirdly, Life force regeneration isn’t necessary to focus on my builds, since the proper playstyle will involve you sitting in Deathshroud for no more than 1 second at a time.

Ara.4569:

I have a question about Tormentor rune choice: why not giving up 100 condition damage for +20% duration on every condition, not just fear ? Sounds juicy.

for 100% extra duration on fears, when we already have 50% from master of terror, 20% from runes and a 1.15 multiplier from sigil, we just need at least 5 points in spite for guaranteed extra tick. So maybe instead of 0/30/20/0/20 it could be interesting to go 10/30/10/0/20 ? Especially when we can’t control that reaper’s protection fear, and it can easily waste a 90 sec CD (Im torn because 4 sec fear in crazy good). Or maybe 5/25/20/0/20 or 10/20/20/0/20…

I have said before, in tPvP the only thing worth speccing in duration for happens to be CCs. That’s it. I would much prefer the 20% boost to Fear and 100 condition damage to the 20% to all other conditions, since my main damage comes from Fear and I want it to do as much as possible.

I have used that before, I prefer Reaper’s Protection for the extra survivability/AoE bursting. Besides, I don’t really need that super extra fear duration, since my 85% really stacks up when I use my strategy, and if I get stunned during my burst, RP comes out and finishes the job.

I thank you for the comment, and I’m glad you’re thinking this way, however I have tried most of that before in my theory crafting.

poptartbrger.1349:

What gear would you reccomend for a WvW variant of the Potentate build?

I wouldn’t recommend Potentate in WvW, it’s incredibly strong prepatch and postpatch in tPvP, but not so much in WvW. However, if you really want to use it there, go full Berserker.

Greenfish.1270:

Well of Darkness does not chill unless you trait it and in your tormentor build you do not have it traited, as for spectral armor a reduction of a 30 seconds on its cool down for a stun break, protection, and life force on damage is great I do not see how its bad.

Spectral Armor still does not grant stability, and if you’re going to use it for Mitigation, Well of Darkness is superior. Any person standing inside your well of darkness has his damage output reduced enormously for 5 seconds, and it’s an AoE. That’s incredible support to your team. Spectral Armor is decent, Spectral Walk is better, but they’re all selfish things, and still not as good as WoD. If you’re going to be doing alot of 1v1s though, I’d suggest Spectral Walk for the double stunbreak.

Way into about 25hrs testing after the big change I found this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRLTvSTUjhPhIV4ZgecL4izQ9wdYnPE-TsAg0CnIqRVjrGTNyas1MyYJyUEA

to do an obscene amount of damage. Steady as well as insane burst via the wells/marks/Axe2Spam coped with by with some nimble DS ability smashing of ’enteringDS, DarkPath(2), TaintedShackles(5), Doom (3), then LifeTransfer(4).

Basically the key (or what seemed to be so to me) was the 30 in Soul Reaping giving the GM trait DeathlyPerception(+50%crit in DS)
I think I had near 3400 attack,, about 47% crit, and an impressive 62% crit dam increase which gets allot of usage. Your wells and the LifeTransfer together with DS abilities well times can do some BooKoo BigBottaBoom! To be sure.

Often I’d just sit back and just have my toon standing still and laughed at how big and plentiful the damage numbers where, Not worrying because enemies were running or dying or both. Not to mention the fact that, unless you get (2-3) focused and/or CC locked (or you Opps-blow your DS ability cooldowns), enemies all around would just melt.
For anyone still standing your not left without recourse. Start spamming LifeBlast which can hit for up around 3200-4700(bip). Forced to come out of DS go into Lich and realize you do about the same damage with PlagueBlast as you where just going with LifeBlast.

The CDs on wells along with the handy staff marks ensure that you have population controls to some degree, and the UNMATCHED LifeForce accumulation due to the fact that i think every single thing you do adds to your LS bar filling up. (ie, Staff auto attack, Staff Marks traited , Axes GhastlyClaws (2).

Even if your DS abilities aren’t off CD the option to just into a position of defense ie, in DS, WHERE mind you, you have Crazy-Cannon-Lasers of Life-Blasts at readily available to Nuke singles dwn surprisingly fast.

**I may have missed many things/points is so Sorry. Too tired atm to proofread. :P
One more thing though. What I shared was hands down the most successful settup/attack as judged to be so from feedback I got solo Qing for about 22-25hrs straight in tpvp matches. Some against kitten pugs, some against shockingly organized premades.
Though, In the middle of all that I also played allot of MM and seen (same weps/same amulet/Divinity instead of Oger) 20/0/20/30/0 (minions draw condis) or even just 30/0/20/20/0 (+20%dam to <50%health enemies) both shined as expected but even moreso incorporating that new TaintedShackles rotation/using FleshGolem as a replacement for the well burst just before going into DS.

Gatta go the hell to sleep but I want to say in summation, I didn’t mention the build/settup I found (at the very end, last-Call hour of testing around numerous builds both power as well as condi) which in the opinion of me, my eyes, and the clock i found one which has energizer burst. 30/0/10/0/30 but instead of the 20%dam to enemies with <50%hp, get some Burn. Then hit the vender for as much burn duration increasers you can find until the duration is at at least 75% (3 sets of 2 Rune pairs w/15%, and +10% Sigils for weps).

That will give you Burn on enemy upon crit for 7 full seconds (*), then only 3 sekittenil you again apply Burn for another 7 sec!. 8] I went that route in the last 30min so havent improved it past that (burn wise). With Zerker its about 300-400ticks, with more donci damage using carrion or Rabid (and dropping Axe for Septer, Burn ticks for like 650. 7 seconds out of 10! :P

I love the changes. Please give feedback and, Goodnight!

It’s an interesting variation to my high priest, but I can’t say it’s more effective. Just focuses different. Staff is probably a better idea for the Putrid Mark AoE.

Another self-proclaimed guru. After reading your statements on Spectral Walk being a bad skill, staff not being a good choice and glasscanon thieves being bad in spvp I’ve pretty much had enough.

Burn.5401:

Another self-proclaimed guru. After reading your statements on Spectral Walk being a bad skill, staff not being a good choice and glasscanon thieves being bad in spvp I’ve pretty much had enough.

As I said, I misspoke, Spectral Walk is not necessarily bad, it’s a selfish skill, and is merely a stunbreaker, not really effective damage mitigation. Well of Darkness is AoE damage mitigation, and can aid an entire team.

Staff is not a good choice for Bursters. It simply is bad for that purpose.

Thieves are bad in tPvP.

I am so anti religion. Well anti ignorance. (I’ll leave it/and stop there.) So
I’m not overly thrilled about title High Priest being given to the build which is most similar to the build I hashed out from scratch for myself last night. Nearly identical. :]

I think the only difference is you chose to showcase Axe/Focus and D/WH, over my personally favored use of Staff, Axe/WH set up.

And there is only one trait different I think. I rathered to opt for the..
30 – I, X, XII
0
10 – II
0
30 – II, X, XII

..set up. As it just seemed best for me then. But every thin else exactly the same. In fact, it makes me wonder if you seen/heard me describing it in the Mists map chat… (3 trait choice differences/one in each tree. 1 equipment difference(instead of Sigil of Energy I went Battle.) utilities and elite all the same -_- haah Great minds do think alike!

Tego.3129:

I am so anti religion. Well I am anti ignorance. I’ll leave it at that. So..
I’m not overly thrilled about High Priest being most similar to the build I hashed out from scratch for myself last night.

I think the only difference is you chose Thief, and Axe/Focus and D/WH over my personally favored use of Staff, Axe/WH set up.

So kitten close to being the exact one makes me wonder if you seem me describing it in the Mists map chat… —_-- haah. gg.

Well, I’m actually pleased there was someone whom was theory crafting on a similar track as I. I don’t really see many people that go for anything but brainless 30/30/10/0/0 or 30/20/0/0/20 builds.

I’d like to personally invite you to my Necromancer school to see if you can become a teacher, if you do not mind.

I’m interested in the Minion Lord build, but have a few questions relating to the trait choices.

I was wondering why you selected Vampiric Precision without having a high crit chance primarily. But I was also curious why you’d pick Vampiric Master with only the Flesh Golem and Shadow Fiend would be regularly alive. To my novice eyes, it seems better to take Mark of Evasion, Ritual Master, and Fetid Consumption. Then you could use Well of Blood for the heal and take advantage of the healing power from Shaman’s amulet with higher regen uptime and the AoE heals from Well of Blood. My final thought is to change Chilling Darkness to Weakening Shroud. That would allow higher bleed stacking and doesn’t appear to be a big sacrifice. In that case would you suggest using Bone Fiend instead of Shadow Fiend?

To be clear, I’m a pretty low ranked player just getting my feet wet in pvp. But these are just my first thoughts on looking at the build and I was wondering if you could provide some clarification.

Morvian.3270:

I’m interested in the Minion Lord build, but have a few questions relating to the trait choices.

I was wondering why you selected Vampiric Precision without having a high crit chance primarily. But I was also curious why you’d pick Vampiric Master with only the Flesh Golem and Shadow Fiend would be regularly alive. To my novice eyes, it seems better to take Mark of Evasion, Ritual Master, and Fetid Consumption. Then you could use Well of Blood for the heal and take advantage of the healing power from Shaman’s amulet with higher regen uptime and the AoE heals from Well of Blood. My final thought is to change Chilling Darkness to Weakening Shroud. That would allow higher bleed stacking and doesn’t appear to be a big sacrifice. In that case would you suggest using Bone Fiend instead of Shadow Fiend?

To be clear, I’m a pretty low ranked player just getting my feet wet in pvp. But these are just my first thoughts on looking at the build and I was wondering if you could provide some clarification.

Thank you, I didn’t notice that before. The build is wonky, and I failed to notice that the build I posted is different than the one I theory crafted ages ago. You’ll want 0/20/30/20/0, and all of the changes you mentioned above are correct, however the idea behind the build is so that your minions survive long periods of time, that you can siphon conditions from them using Plague Signet, and then transfer them for a burst.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Morvian.3270:

I’m interested in the Minion Lord build, but have a few questions relating to the trait choices.

I was wondering why you selected Vampiric Precision without having a high crit chance primarily. But I was also curious why you’d pick Vampiric Master with only the Flesh Golem and Shadow Fiend would be regularly alive. To my novice eyes, it seems better to take Mark of Evasion, Ritual Master, and Fetid Consumption. Then you could use Well of Blood for the heal and take advantage of the healing power from Shaman’s amulet with higher regen uptime and the AoE heals from Well of Blood. My final thought is to change Chilling Darkness to Weakening Shroud. That would allow higher bleed stacking and doesn’t appear to be a big sacrifice. In that case would you suggest using Bone Fiend instead of Shadow Fiend?

To be clear, I’m a pretty low ranked player just getting my feet wet in pvp. But these are just my first thoughts on looking at the build and I was wondering if you could provide some clarification.

Thank you, I didn’t notice that before. The build is wonky, and I failed to notice that the build I posted is different than the one I theory crafted ages ago. You’ll want 0/20/30/20/0, and all of the changes you mentioned above are correct, however the idea behind the build is so that your minions survive long periods of time, that you can siphon conditions from them using Plague Signet, and then transfer them for a burst.

Ah ok that explains it. What would the third Death Magic trait be?

Death Nova, for 3rd DM trait. I’m still thinking and trying to remember my old theory craft version. Not sure why that one is messed up.

So you would be thinking something like this then?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQal6taOb07JApHPD90TK+e8IFHHMA-TsAg2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8YtweBA

Morvian.3270:

So you would be thinking something like this then?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQal6taOb07JApHPD90TK+e8IFHHMA-TsAg2CrIaS1krJTTymsNN8YtweBA

Yes. Well done, I like the way your mind works by the way. You have the makings of a great theory crafter.

Talking builds? Here’s my 1v1 build, has not failed me once since the patch:

30/30/10 “is King 1v1”

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMat7FbKb07JEpCPD0jeRXAxoHETwkMA-T0AAzCuIaS1krJTTymsNN8YVx2jjHvKA

feat. Dumbfire w. Terror, Condition Spam with Rabid / Carrion Mix.

Upside: Forced condition spam is hard to recover from. Build does NOT rely on Terror damage or gimmiky spectral wall tho! Corrupt Boon gets switched out for Epidemic vs x. It’s a lazy man spec, can’t do much wrong.

Downside: super low defense, especially vs CC chains. No stun breaker, but Deathshround fear vs 1.

Summary: Kite or die. Has not failed me once and you feel bad for well played opponents. Played vs. several profs, Lyssa or Melandru doesn’t help. Anti condition builds from eles, guardians, won’t help. Only Problem: super squishy vs. CC from 2+ players – pretty much unable to recover or escape.

Thanks. I used to create a lot of builds in my previous MMO, City of Heroes. That was a very different game though with a very heavy PvE focus. I’ve been listening to a lot of the But of Corpse podcasts lately and that got me started on Necromancer builds.

I’ll be giving this one a shot tomorrow.

spoj.9672:

Mammoth.1975:

Encanis.4031:

Infect.2738:

This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.

Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great

You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMah7dbub87JEpCPD0jdBXAxoHHTwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xGBA

Cheers Spoj. Have you tried higher bleed duration but preferred this?

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Mammoth.1975:

spoj.9672:

Mammoth.1975:

Encanis.4031:

Infect.2738:

This. Not to take away from your thread but my 30/30/10 build became meta in the high tier scene. and will probably put out the most pressure possible IF played right. I will say good job for offering up a list of builds people can try though.

Well, maybe stupid question, but what exactly is this super 30/30/10 build? I always have trouble if people only quote these numbers without further explanation on gear/traitchoice/playstyle (of course, obvious to them, but not for the readers)… some links would be great

You raise an interesting question. I’m curious what others are using on their new versions of 30/30/10. I can’t decide between 2 lyssa/4 nightmare, 6 nightmare, and 6 undead. Tier 1 spite feels like a wasted slot too.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjMah7dbub87JEpCPD0jdBXAxoHHTwoMA-TsAAzCpI+S9l7LzXyvsfN8Y5xGBA

Cheers Spoj. Have you tried higher bleed duration but preferred this?

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Neither is your form of misinformation. I tried that build, and it’s worthless. 5 seconds of being focused to death isn’t worth the amount of damage you get from burning. 30/30/10/0/0 is a nonsense build. Just like putting all of your eggs in a single basket. You’re literally offputting every single build I’ve listed there for a crappy generic build that’s focused on a brainless trait line up that a 3 year old could have attempted. Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

I’m quite tired of crap from people such as yourself, it grows old. The least you could do is have the decency to actually try some of the builds before throwing them out the window. When I state something, I have a reason to.

Report me for this post if you like, but I’m bloody irritated by people coming into my thread that I created to aid people, only to harass/criticize a LIST of builds they either did not try, or lack the skill to use effectively. Only to CRITICIZE me for not putting up a brainless 30/30/10 build that you blindly worship because it brings up big numbers.

It’s like people such as yourself gain all of their information from 1v1s, rather than actual team play. It’s people like yourself that whined about Necro being UP prepatch because you failed to use it effectively. People such as yourself whom thought Necro couldn’t do anything except spam marks to no avail. Necro was good prepatch, overpowered now, and you’re limiting yourselves again with a crappy build, just like last time.

Anyone with half a spec of Necro knowledge after seeing the leaked patch notes would immediately think of 30/30/10. That doesn’t make it good. Don’t insult me, please, or if you are going to insult me, do it right and pull something better out. This is simply petty.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

No it isn’t. It’s a typical glass cannon build, I’ve already addressed Dhuumfire as being extremely useful for hybrid builds, and I have made successful ones for it.

I am rather confused.
Even if the 30/30/10 build is generic and whatever other adjectives you want to throw at it it is STILL a really viable build. If the Op wants to help people as he does, why not list it then?
Also the necro may or may not be OP now but it certainly was not viable pre patch. A skilled player could sort of make it work but it was limited in what it could be achieved with the class.

It’s not a matter of debate – the fact that it was the general consensus (both in high and low level play) is a reliable indicator that it was indeed sub par.

In regards to the builds, some of them are quite effective. I used to run a 0/20/10/10/30 build pre patch which is quite similar to OP’s 0/30/20/0/20 build in scope and purpose.
However I do not think it’s overpowered now nor do I think it was prepatch.

Honestly I would stay away from classifications such as UP/OP in a thread where the OP states he wants to help people out – it’s just going to get the thread derailed.

The effort though to write all this up and presumably test all these builds is much appreciated so thanks OP for your time.

Bennet.2954:

I am rather confused.
Even if the 30/30/10 build is generic and whatever other adjectives you want to throw at it it is STILL a really viable build. If the Op wants to help people as he does, why not list it then?

Also the necro may or may not be OP now but it certainly was not viable pre patch. A skilled player could sort of make it work but it was limited in what it could be achieved with the class.

It’s not a matter of debate – the fact that it was the general consensus (both in high and low level play) is a reliable indicator that it was indeed sub par.

In regards to the builds, some of them are quite effective. I used to run a 0/20/10/10/30 build pre patch which is quite similar to OP’s 0/30/20/0/20 build in scope and purpose.
However I do not think it’s overpowered now nor do I think it was prepatch.

Honestly I would stay away from classifications such as UP/OP in a thread where the OP states he wants to help people out – it’s just going to get the thread derailed.

The effort though to write all this up and presumably test all these builds is much appreciated so thanks OP for your time.

I disagree with almost every point you made, but atleast you have the kitten ed courtesy to be nice about it. Good post.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

No it isn’t. It’s a typical glass cannon build, I’ve already addressed Dhuumfire as being extremely useful for hybrid builds, and I have made successful ones for it.

Glass cannon? You care to play the numbers game with me?

Gear is rabid thats a given. So lets start with 0.30.20.0.20 typical build. Runes of choice I tend to go nightmare toughness is a solid 1760 with condi damage of 1406 and condi duration of +10%.

Now the 30.30.10.0.0 say I go with nightmare toughness drops to 1660, but I dont use nightmare for this build because you already have a 30% condi duration build in, Runes of undead so 1710 toughness with 1492 condi damage. You get burning and still have terror along with 30% condition duration. I still run Spectral wall and walk sometimes with corrupt boon sometimes with spectral armor.

Really dont understand where you are getting this glass cannon opinion from….

Anyway Im sure you will have a response, you dont like the build for whatever reason. I did not like it before the patch, now I like it….burning is useful.

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Do you think me so bad that I couldn’t have thought of a 30/30/10 Rabid build when they announced Dhuumfire?

Well its a build with a higher skill cap however it a performer if you can play the class.

For beginners it might not be the best choice.

No it isn’t. It’s a typical glass cannon build, I’ve already addressed Dhuumfire as being extremely useful for hybrid builds, and I have made successful ones for it.

Glass cannon? You care to play the numbers game with me?

Gear is rabid thats a given. So lets start with 0.30.20.0.20 typical build. Runes of choice I tend to go nightmare toughness is a solid 1760 with condi damage of 1406 and condi duration of +10%.

Now the 30.30.10.0.0 say I go with nightmare toughness drops to 1660, but I dont use nightmare for this build because you already have a 30% condi duration build in, Runes of undead so 1710 toughness with 1492 condi damage. You get burning and still have terror along with 30% condition duration. I still run Spectral wall and walk sometimes with corrupt boon sometimes with spectral armor.

Really dont understand where you are getting this glass cannon opinion from….

Anyway Im sure you will have a response, you dont like the build for whatever reason. I did not like it before the patch, now I like it….burning is useful.

Anything below 2,000 toughness on a toughness build is glass, if you didn’t know. Unless you substitute the mitigation for healing mitigation, which Necromancer cannot do without protection. Besides, I find Terror to be far better than burn in the right usage anyway. You’re sacrificing reaper’s protection, and other possible nice things such as LF gen or high HP to go full damage. It’s a brainless build, and I dislike it intently. It doesn’t work as well as people think, either. Just because you can burn a single target doesn’t make it great for tPvP.

I’ll say it right now, 30/30/10/0/0 conditionmancers are orientated more to 1v1.

He obviously means that without sufficient LF generation we are on the side of squishy.

You either go into blood or you get lf generation if you want to reliably survive bursts or at least have a chance.

I disagree with the point about 30/30/10 not being viable though – it’s just like being a glass cannon though.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mammoth.1975:

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Don’t insult me, please, or if you are going to insult me, do it right and pull something better out. This is simply petty.

Little sensitive are we? I put it as tactfully as I could, and in fact I don’t see what’s so insulting about my post.

There’s nothing wrong with playing an alternative to 30/30/10, and in fact I did so pretty successfully when 30/30/10 was meta last year. There’s a problem with playing bad builds. Which is not to say that all the builds posted are bad. The ones that are ok look less effective on paper than 30/30/10, and you’d need some pretty solid evidence to change anyones mind about that. Anyone with a tiny bit of experience anyway.

If you really want to know what I think, it’s that you shouldn’t be posting builds when everything you post shows that you very clearly have zero experience in competitive tpvp, and no idea about the math behind maximising a builds potential. Get one or the other, and preferably both, before you start trying to ‘help’, because right now you’re not.

Clearer?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Anything below 2,000 toughness on a toughness build is glass, if you didn’t know.

I sure didn’t know that. This basically means that in sPvP you either need to go with a Shaman’s amulet or go 30 in Death Magic and have a rune set with toughness as main attribute to barely make the 2k mark.
So, according to that statement almost every necro build is glassy.

flow.6043:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Anything below 2,000 toughness on a toughness build is glass, if you didn’t know.

I sure didn’t know that. This basically means that in sPvP you either need to go with a Shaman’s amulet or go 30 in Death Magic and have a rune set with toughness as main attribute to barely make the 2k mark.
So, according to that statement almost every necro build is glassy.

Toughness alone won’t make you tanky. It’s generally the utilities/traits that makes one tanky.

Mammoth.1975:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mammoth.1975:

BTW, if you’re new to necro, take a good look at this, because it’s much more effective than any of the builds in the first post. I really don’t want to be too critical because I appreciate people putting effort into helping out the community, and I appreciate theorists who try off the wall stuff even more, but this kind of misinformation isn’t helping anyone.

Don’t insult me, please, or if you are going to insult me, do it right and pull something better out. This is simply petty.

Little sensitive are we? I put it as tactfully as I could, and in fact I don’t see what’s so insulting about my post.

There’s nothing wrong with playing an alternative to 30/30/10, and in fact I did so pretty successfully when 30/30/10 was meta last year. There’s a problem with playing bad builds. Which is not to say that all the builds posted are bad. The ones that are ok look less effective on paper than 30/30/10, and you’d need some pretty solid evidence to change anyones mind about that. Anyone with a tiny bit of experience anyway.

If you really want to know what I think, it’s that you shouldn’t be posting builds when everything you post shows that you very clearly have zero experience in competitive tpvp, and no idea about the math behind maximising a builds potential. Get one or the other, and preferably both, before you start trying to ‘help’, because right now you’re not.

Clearer?

How about you learn to use them yourself for further evidence, because at the moment, you’re talking without knowledge yourself. I have tested these in competitive tPvP, and used them against extremely good players. They work. Now I’m done justifying myself to you, if you continue to lack anything productive, then I will continue to ignore it.

You still have terror it just adds burning…. you also get 30 to 50 % duration on terror depending on how you rune…. without using a trait. The duration of 30% works on all conditions, so why you comment that terror is better then burning I have no idea when the whole point of the build is getting both…..

Anyway done arguing continue to go along your merry way of not truly mastering a class because you fear playing anything not full bunker.

p.s. you can run spectral wall spectral armor and spectral walk if you fear not being tanky.

The 60% bracket isn’t ‘competitive tpvp’.

Mammoth.1975:

The 60% bracket isn’t ‘competitive tpvp’.

So fighting against the players you worship makes me bad? Simply because I do not accept your 30/30/10/0/0 glass build as the best thing ever, you’re all going to come into a thread I started to HELP THE COMMUNITY to flame me. Pathetic. It’s a wonder why anyone takes Necromancer players seriously anymore the way they’ve been behaving the past 4 days, I’m starting to become ashamed of my own people.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Toughness alone won’t make you tanky. It’s generally the utilities/traits that makes one tanky.

I know.
But with that statement you are not only arguing against your earlier “glass < 2k” claim, but you also make a point for everyone here who said 30/30/10 isn’t a glasscanon. Because all you need is defensive utilities, like Well of Power, Plague Signet, Spectral Wall…

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Mammoth.1975:

The 60% bracket isn’t ‘competitive tpvp’.

So fighting against the players you worship makes me bad?

I’d love to know what you mean by this

flow.6043:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Toughness alone won’t make you tanky. It’s generally the utilities/traits that makes one tanky.

I know.
But with that statement you are not only arguing against your earlier “glass < 2k” claim, but you also make a point for everyone here who said 30/30/10 isn’t a glasscanon. Because all you need is defensive utilities, like Well of Power, Plague Signet, Spectral Wall…

Not necessarily, it depends on what you’re building to be tanky for. You must also remember that not everything that ‘looks’ good on paper works as properly as advertised. 30/30/10/0/0 looks great on paper, didn’t work out when I used it. Personally, I prefer HP over Toughness anyway when building more for survivability, toughness really doesn’t work without heals to accompany it, we lack the proper healing capability other classes have on high-toughness builds. So we tend to work with high HP and nothing else, therefore using full damage mitigation such as Blindness/Transfers works well for us.

Mammoth.1975:

I’d love to know what you mean by this

I doubt you could use a single build I listed up there effectively without my help. I bet you haven’t even tried, again, you’re looking at it from “oh those look awful” perspective, therefore your opinion is moot, and I’m going to ignore it until something constructive appears.

I’ve looked at your posting history, nothing but sheer Elitism, wrong opinions, and nothing to merit either. You haven’t helped the community at all.

may i ask y use Plague Signet and Well of Darkness for the tormentor build ?

Plague Signet is a useful stunbreak, and allows you to use an opponent’s condition burst against them.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

I doubt you could use a single build I listed up there effectively without my help. I bet you haven’t even tried, again, you’re looking at it from “oh those look awful” perspective, therefore your opinion is moot, and I’m going to ignore it until something constructive appears.

Yes, I need help from 60% players. ‘Constructive’ would be posting something useful, so you should get to work on that too.

This has obviously degraded into an kitten measuring contest.

The builds posted may very well be good for people to use a springboard, but trying to paint them as “meta” strikes me as false advertising. Sure, they may very well be effective. I won’t contest that. However, efficacy is not the measure of whether or not something is the current meta. The current meta is the effective build the fits within the overall team structure. If a 30-30-10 is the best way for a necro to fulfill it’s given role withing a team, then it is the meta. It may not be the best 1v1 build out there. It may not be the best hot join hero out there. However, neither of those matters. What matters is what the top teams are using a necro for. That’s the meta.

I appreciate your effort in collecting effective builds for players to use, tweak, or experience, but maybe present them a bit differently in the future to avoid threads like this.

Craptrain.7203:

This has obviously degraded into an kitten measuring contest.

The builds posted may very well be good for people to use a springboard, but trying to paint them as “meta” strikes me as false advertising. Sure, they may very well be effective. I won’t contest that. However, efficacy is not the measure of whether or not something is the current meta. The current meta is the effective build the fits within the overall team structure. If a 30-30-10 is the best way for a necro to fulfill it’s given role withing a team, then it is the meta. It may not be the best 1v1 build out there. It may not be the best hot join hero out there. However, neither of those matters. What matters is what the top teams are using a necro for. That’s the meta.

I appreciate your effort in collecting effective builds for players to use, tweak, or experience, but maybe present them a bit differently in the future to avoid threads like this.

My point of posting this was to clean ignorance from any top players, to show what Necro is capable of. Spazzcromancer never allowed me to post his amazing Bunker build, but all of these builds are good for a number of things, from roaming, to tanking, to bursting, to bunkering, to supporting, to controlling. Unfortunately, I have to post gameplay videos, and apparently teach them how to use the kitten ed class before they learn that Necro can do more than spam DoTs.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

This has obviously degraded into an kitten measuring contest.

The builds posted may very well be good for people to use a springboard, but trying to paint them as “meta” strikes me as false advertising. Sure, they may very well be effective. I won’t contest that. However, efficacy is not the measure of whether or not something is the current meta. The current meta is the effective build the fits within the overall team structure. If a 30-30-10 is the best way for a necro to fulfill it’s given role withing a team, then it is the meta. It may not be the best 1v1 build out there. It may not be the best hot join hero out there. However, neither of those matters. What matters is what the top teams are using a necro for. That’s the meta.

I appreciate your effort in collecting effective builds for players to use, tweak, or experience, but maybe present them a bit differently in the future to avoid threads like this.

My point of posting this was to clean ignorance from any top players, to show what Necro is capable of. Spazzcromancer never allowed me to post his amazing Bunker build, but all of these builds are good for a number of things, from roaming, to tanking, to bursting, to bunkering, to supporting, to controlling. Unfortunately, I have to post gameplay videos, and apparently teach them how to use the kitten ed class before they learn that Necro can do more than spam DoTs.

Question: you’re trying to actually teach the top players that they’re the one playing incorrectly? I don’t mean this to sound blunt, but what are your qualifications that will make a top player take your word over their own experiences?

Craptrain.7203:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

This has obviously degraded into an kitten measuring contest.

The builds posted may very well be good for people to use a springboard, but trying to paint them as “meta” strikes me as false advertising. Sure, they may very well be effective. I won’t contest that. However, efficacy is not the measure of whether or not something is the current meta. The current meta is the effective build the fits within the overall team structure. If a 30-30-10 is the best way for a necro to fulfill it’s given role withing a team, then it is the meta. It may not be the best 1v1 build out there. It may not be the best hot join hero out there. However, neither of those matters. What matters is what the top teams are using a necro for. That’s the meta.

I appreciate your effort in collecting effective builds for players to use, tweak, or experience, but maybe present them a bit differently in the future to avoid threads like this.

My point of posting this was to clean ignorance from any top players, to show what Necro is capable of. Spazzcromancer never allowed me to post his amazing Bunker build, but all of these builds are good for a number of things, from roaming, to tanking, to bursting, to bunkering, to supporting, to controlling. Unfortunately, I have to post gameplay videos, and apparently teach them how to use the kitten ed class before they learn that Necro can do more than spam DoTs.

Question: you’re trying to actually teach the top players that they’re the one playing incorrectly? I don’t mean this to sound blunt, but what are your qualifications that will make a top player take your word over their own experiences?

If they think Necro cannot burst or bunker effectively, but I have done it before, and I know people that bunker/burst effectively. Then they must be wrong, no?

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

If they think Necro cannot burst or bunker effectively, but I have done it before, and I know people that bunker/burst effectively. Then they must be wrong, no?

Then let them post about their exploits, you are a tiresome troll.

Xom.9264:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

If they think Necro cannot burst or bunker effectively, but I have done it before, and I know people that bunker/burst effectively. Then they must be wrong, no?

Then let them post about their exploits, you are a tiresome troll.

Any Necro that doubts the effectiveness of these builds and my strategies/skill, can talk to me ingame. I will devote portions of my time to TEACH YOU how to use them. So you can judge, unbiased, whether or not they are good. Until then, your opinions are moot.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Craptrain.7203:

This has obviously degraded into an kitten measuring contest.

The builds posted may very well be good for people to use a springboard, but trying to paint them as “meta” strikes me as false advertising. Sure, they may very well be effective. I won’t contest that. However, efficacy is not the measure of whether or not something is the current meta. The current meta is the effective build the fits within the overall team structure. If a 30-30-10 is the best way for a necro to fulfill it’s given role withing a team, then it is the meta. It may not be the best 1v1 build out there. It may not be the best hot join hero out there. However, neither of those matters. What matters is what the top teams are using a necro for. That’s the meta.

I appreciate your effort in collecting effective builds for players to use, tweak, or experience, but maybe present them a bit differently in the future to avoid threads like this.

My point of posting this was to clean ignorance from any top players, to show what Necro is capable of. Spazzcromancer never allowed me to post his amazing Bunker build, but all of these builds are good for a number of things, from roaming, to tanking, to bursting, to bunkering, to supporting, to controlling. Unfortunately, I have to post gameplay videos, and apparently teach them how to use the kitten ed class before they learn that Necro can do more than spam DoTs.

Question: you’re trying to actually teach the top players that they’re the one playing incorrectly? I don’t mean this to sound blunt, but what are your qualifications that will make a top player take your word over their own experiences?

If they think Necro cannot burst or bunker effectively, but I have done it before, and I know people that bunker/burst effectively. Then they must be wrong, no?

You didn’t answer my question. What exactly are your qualifications? Are you highly ranked on the leaderboard? Have you taken down a top-rated tournament team in competitive play? Do you have an in with Jonathan Sharp? Do you have a widely popular stream? I honestly don’t know anything about you, which is why I’m asking.