Guild Wars 2

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

The Ranger will perform well in EVERY scenario. this is an all round class. Versatile, range and melee, condition and power, attack and support.

When ranger can use feedback/shield of the avenger/wall of reflection I’d have an easier time believing that.

Now that’s just nit picking. Guardians have those skills because their range is terrible. That is their balance.

Why would a ranger need this? they aren’t supposed to be hit or absorb damage. Although they can go invulnerable for 6 seconds whilst shooting back, that count?

Not really. These skills are beneficial to the whole party and some instances will make or break a team. As an example fotm 40+ Shaman fight at the end is sure alot easier with these skills than without, and if you have a poor team, without these skills they will never complete it. 6 seconds of invulnerability for your ranger is rather trivial in a group dungeon given that your ranger isnt doing much contribution vs other classes and should really switch that skill out for something more group focused to be beneficial.

It was a joke

Irrelevant as to where they are used, those skills are there because Guardians have rubbish range. Those skills existed before fotm. They werent designed for fotm.

swiftpaw.6397:

Not really. These skills are beneficial to the whole party and some instances will make or break a team. As an example fotm 40+ Shaman fight at the end is sure alot easier with these skills than without, and if you have a poor team, without these skills they will never complete it. 6 seconds of invulnerability for your ranger is rather trivial in a group dungeon given that your ranger isnt doing much contribution vs other classes and should really switch that skill out for something more group focused to be beneficial.

I’d say everyone should expect a nerf to reflection at some point in the future if not just the specific mass reflection skills.

Aaah so quiet in this thread to today.. I also ran out of popcorn

kesuh.3891:

Aaah so quiet in this thread to today.. I also ran out of popcorn

it’s one of those cases where it doesnt matter what you say people will think what they want regardless.. soooo yeah /meh.

When it comes to dungeons, the Ranger brings two unique things:

• Search & Rescue
• Great water field

These are not enough for groups to value rangers in higher level fractals as Search & Rescue is inferior vastly inferior to the various rez utilities other classes have that are simply a cast and the ally (or multiple allies) is alive.

Healing Spring is awesome. There’s no two ways about it. It is simply great. If you had 2 rangers in a group, you could have 100% up-time on it with a little coordination. Unfortunately, due to the issues with Rangers in dungeons, people don’t want 2 rangers in their group. In fact, many high level fractal groups don’t even want 1 ranger.

This is the issue.

Now back to the OP. Ranger damage is not “Godly”.
The one thing I’ve read you say about Ranger damage that I agree with, KensaiZen, is that Ranger is not designed to do burst damage. It can do some, but nothing comparable to what many other classes can do. Instead, the ranger is a sustained damage class.

I play my ranger such that I maintain solid sustained damage on someone while avoiding their burst. It works quite well in 1v1 and can even work in 2v1, but after that sustained damage has you down. I don’t really have an issue with dying 3v1, so I think that’s a non-issue.

The real issue with the solid sustained damage is the current abundance of 100% up-time on boons in WvW. You see several people running around with “permanent” regen, retaliation, etc. Since Ranger does sustained damage, enemies have more time for their regen to be leveraged. Additionally, that sustained damage suffers at the hands of enemies with retaliation … that hurts quite a bit! Since the Ranger has no reliable way to remove enemy boons (sigil sucks), we’re a bit SOL here.

Neb.4170:

KensaiZen.3740:

Versatile at range.

The power of the pet mechanic.

Your definition of versatile is… strange.

Pets… I don’t know. I absolutely abhor the way pets are designed in this game and I dislike that we are stuck with them.

I agree. I preferred pets in WoW personally.

I have tried to solo Lupi on my ranger but couldn’t get past p3 because of the domes. With only two stability skills on 90+ second cool downs and no blinks I don’t think its possible on a ranger.

As for dungeons does it really matter if other professions do them a bit better? I don’t think professions need to be balanced in pve like in pvp, it seems people are just winging because they cant do task X as well as class Y. The current pve content isn’t even that challenging, at least not hard enough for class balance to be that important imo.

I don’t care so much that others do different things better in dungeons. I care that people look at the Ranger and the only thing they think “oh yay!” about is healing spring.

When I bring my Mesmer, people are “oh yay!” about feedback, focus reflection, null field, chaos storm (and chaos armor blast finishers!), etc.

When someone brings a Guardian, people are “oh yay!” about the plethora of boons they are going to get.

When someone brings a Warrior, people are “oh yay!” about the ridiculous damage, offensive boons, and banner buff.

Leo G.4501:

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

Not going to lie but, elementalist water fields are crap, pure and simple.

Neither have horrible radii and one is on a decent cooldown of 20 or less seconds…but you can’t effectively combo on a water combo field that last 2 seconds and the other last 6 seconds but has a cooldown of 48 or more seconds.

A.) You’re likely going to have the field covered in a curial moment by other fields.
B.) Only superior coordination will make effective use of it.

You’re better off trying to combo off an engi’s regen turret. Sure, the elementalist themselves can time their own combos in the field, but good luck popping 2+ combos off them with your team, which is what makes water fields good.

Also, I’m enjoying Ranger ice fields more than elementalist for several reasons:
A.) to get ice field for elementalist, you HAVE to use staff whereas you can just plop one into your utility bar for Ranger.
B.) you get it more often and it’s near instant. I use it in conjunction with GS swoop in close for an extra 10% damage redux along with my hound.

If you run scepter or dagger on elementalist, what combo fields? Fire? That it?

The context is dungeon runs. The most beneficial combo field in dungeon runs are fire fields. The best supplier of fire fields are elementalists, who while bringing said fire fields, also bring their own blast finishers. They also can stack a crap ton of boons on the entire party. Fury, Swiftness, Regen, etc.

Water fields are far from necessary in dungeons, yet you seem to be fixated on them.

Neb.4170:

Leo G.4501:

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

Not going to lie but, elementalist water fields are crap, pure and simple.

Neither have horrible radii and one is on a decent cooldown of 20 or less seconds…but you can’t effectively combo on a water combo field that last 2 seconds and the other last 6 seconds but has a cooldown of 48 or more seconds.

A.) You’re likely going to have the field covered in a curial moment by other fields.
B.) Only superior coordination will make effective use of it.

You’re better off trying to combo off an engi’s regen turret. Sure, the elementalist themselves can time their own combos in the field, but good luck popping 2+ combos off them with your team, which is what makes water fields good.

Also, I’m enjoying Ranger ice fields more than elementalist for several reasons:
A.) to get ice field for elementalist, you HAVE to use staff whereas you can just plop one into your utility bar for Ranger.
B.) you get it more often and it’s near instant. I use it in conjunction with GS swoop in close for an extra 10% damage redux along with my hound.

If you run scepter or dagger on elementalist, what combo fields? Fire? That it?

The context is dungeon runs. The most beneficial combo field in dungeon runs are fire fields. The best supplier of fire fields are elementalists, who while bringing said fire fields, also bring their own blast finishers. They also can stack a crap ton of boons on the entire party. Fury, Swiftness, Regen, etc.

Water fields are far from necessary in dungeons, yet you seem to be fixated on them.

The best supplier of fire fields is Warrior…but I’d hardly say fire fields are the most beneficial because might is the most common boon in the game. Bringing in a field to finish off the last 5 stacks of team might hardly qualifies it as most beneficial.

Elementalist fire fields with anything but dagger off-hand is small or short-lived and with that combo, you’re not going to have any other fields besides that (and Ice fields have gotten a large improvement since blasts give everyone 5 seconds of -10% damage which stacks with protection).

And I’m not fixated on water fields. What I’m fixated on is how high a pedestal you’re placing elementalist on in groups. Yes they can stack lots of boons for a group…but likely they won’t be doing much damage in the process (talking generally/on average and high level fractals (40 and above) is the minority). I tend to run a non-supporty damage elementalist with CC as my priority and don’t have room to waste on monk/water runes for boon duration or duration from food or aura sharing. I can do decent damage with good personal survival but boons outside of blasting fire fields are minimal.

I played the supporty elementalist in regular dungeons for quite a while which I could keep up a lot of boons, but damage wasn’t even close to what I can do with the current build. It’s a variation on the arcane lightning build with arcane skills for guaranteed crits and the improved sigil of intelligence.

No class is going to do it all. There will be trade-offs for having specific build options.

Yeah, no class is going to do it all … but Ranger isn’t doing much.

Come up with a role Ranger fulfills in a group and I’m sure we can come up with another class that does it just as well and then some.

I doubt you could say the same for Guardian, Warrior, etc.

Leo G.4501:

Neb.4170:

Leo G.4501:

Neb.4170:

Chopps.5047:

Any of you guys make team use of ranger combo fields in dungeons? Why or why not?

Why would you bring a ranger for combo fields? An ele would do it so much better.

Not going to lie but, elementalist water fields are crap, pure and simple.

Neither have horrible radii and one is on a decent cooldown of 20 or less seconds…but you can’t effectively combo on a water combo field that last 2 seconds and the other last 6 seconds but has a cooldown of 48 or more seconds.

A.) You’re likely going to have the field covered in a curial moment by other fields.
B.) Only superior coordination will make effective use of it.

You’re better off trying to combo off an engi’s regen turret. Sure, the elementalist themselves can time their own combos in the field, but good luck popping 2+ combos off them with your team, which is what makes water fields good.

Also, I’m enjoying Ranger ice fields more than elementalist for several reasons:
A.) to get ice field for elementalist, you HAVE to use staff whereas you can just plop one into your utility bar for Ranger.
B.) you get it more often and it’s near instant. I use it in conjunction with GS swoop in close for an extra 10% damage redux along with my hound.

If you run scepter or dagger on elementalist, what combo fields? Fire? That it?

The context is dungeon runs. The most beneficial combo field in dungeon runs are fire fields. The best supplier of fire fields are elementalists, who while bringing said fire fields, also bring their own blast finishers. They also can stack a crap ton of boons on the entire party. Fury, Swiftness, Regen, etc.

Water fields are far from necessary in dungeons, yet you seem to be fixated on them.

The best supplier of fire fields is Warrior…but I’d hardly say fire fields are the most beneficial because might is the most common boon in the game. Bringing in a field to finish off the last 5 stacks of team might hardly qualifies it as most beneficial.

Elementalist fire fields with anything but dagger off-hand is small or short-lived and with that combo, you’re not going to have any other fields besides that (and Ice fields have gotten a large improvement since blasts give everyone 5 seconds of -10% damage which stacks with protection).

And I’m not fixated on water fields. What I’m fixated on is how high a pedestal you’re placing elementalist on in groups. Yes they can stack lots of boons for a group…but likely they won’t be doing much damage in the process (talking generally/on average and high level fractals (40 and above) is the minority). I tend to run a non-supporty damage elementalist with CC as my priority and don’t have room to waste on monk/water runes for boon duration or duration from food or aura sharing. I can do decent damage with good personal survival but boons outside of blasting fire fields are minimal.

I played the supporty elementalist in regular dungeons for quite a while which I could keep up a lot of boons, but damage wasn’t even close to what I can do with the current build. It’s a variation on the arcane lightning build with arcane skills for guaranteed crits and the improved sigil of intelligence.

No class is going to do it all. There will be trade-offs for having specific build options.

The guy was asking purely about combo fields in a dungeon group setting. So I suggested a class that is:
1. A good source of combo fields
2. A good manipulator of said combo fields
3. A good group buffer

Context is important. I’m not putting the elementalist on a high pedestal, I’m just talking in the context of the conversation.

Might may be the most common boon in the game, but it’s also always good. It will always help to have a lot of might stacks going. The elementalist can supply a lot of might stacks, give the group the ability to add more might stacks and offer a lot more support at the same time.

Healing spring is great, the problem is that not many dungeons require bunching up for constant healing via blast finishers to suceed. Usually its more of a dps race, with many MUST DODGE attacks from the boss.

And even if they did, eles have water field too, and their blast finishers are not controlled by AI and limited to one every 20 seconds (in the best case scenario, assuming the field, teammates and boss are still there while that slow, stupid, oneshottable lizard slowly crawls towards the action)

It surely is useful, especially for the condition removal, but people seeing that as the single awesome reason to group a ranger need a reality check..

So what happens when you dont need to dodge the boss? Your damage will never drop. There is no downtine.

No need to roll.
No need to kite.
No need to cast a heal.
No need to disengage.
No need to chase a boss if he teleports.
No need to walk out of AoE.

You just fire away with no loss to damage via downtime.

You can argue that you may never have to move. Well if thats the case then a ranger can use a ranged petand add the garaunteed hits from that.

Rangers damage by themselves is decent compared to other classes apart from classes designed for DPS. Add to this can increase the damage via their pets.

So let me ask the lovely number crunchers. What is a ranger+ranged pets DPS combined?

KensaiZen.3740:

So what happens when you dont need to dodge the boss? Your damage will never drop. There is no downtine.

No need to roll.
No need to kite.
No need to cast a heal.
No need to disengage.
No need to chase a boss if he teleports.
No need to walk out of AoE.

You just fire away with no loss to damage via downtime.

You can argue that you may never have to move. Well if thats the case then a ranger can use a ranged petand add the garaunteed hits from that.

Rangers damage by themselves is decent compared to other classes apart from classes designed for DPS. Add to this can increase the damage via their pets.

So let me ask the lovely number crunchers. What is a ranger+ranged pets DPS combined?

If you don’t know the numbers, how do you know the ranger is on par or ‘decent’ compared to other classes?

I’d argue that the ranger is far from decent, and my experience and many others seems to argue in this favor. When I play my guardian or just about any other class I have I can tell how much more effective I am because I am not playing the ranger. I have so many more tools, so many more options and I don’t have to deal with terrible tacked on AI.

You’re arguing against this notion, yet you give zero numbers to back it up.

You make a lot of claims that deny the reality we see, but give no information to back up those claims.

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.
Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Comprehension again Kensai. I am saying that ranger is not as effective as warrior. In a dungeon situation. Not that all classes are not effective as warrior.

You clearly highlight the effectiveness of a class is due to how efficiently they can clear a dungeon. No class can clear a dungeon as quick as a warrior. Thus against a warrior all classes are inefficient.

I was making the comparison between one of the most efficient classes and one of the least. Sure warriors are the most effective at DPS and provide better utility than ranger, but a guardian provides better support utility (which compensates for the damage it lacks vs warrior) than a warrior and a mesmer provides a balance of good support and damage and an ele has a versatility (better than a ranger) that means it can quickly adapt to the situation with stronger heals or dps or CC and so on. If we only looked at damage, yes, nothing trumps the warrior.

But from a usefulness in groups relating to effectiveness perspective we look also at utility which is what makes other classes worth taking in dungeons also. If you cannot provide great DPS, then you should at least be able to provide great utility.

The ranger’s utility is not up to par with other classes.

The real point I’m trying to make is that ranger cannot provide enough utility to make it
1.) worth taking over any other class.
and
2.) make up for it’s poor damage.

You’re trying hard to make me sound like some warriors only leetist. My main is a Guardian and my secondary main is a ranger. I’m just letting you know the reasons why I stopped taking my ranger in dungeons even if it is my most enjoyable class.

Rangers can bring a lot of CC and conditions. Sure a necro can bring more conditions but can it bring the same amount as a Ranger? CC, conditions, support all rolled into one.

Guardian has low burst but high support.
Warrior has high burst and low support (I’ve never seen someone spec for both on the same build)
Mesmers bring damage and conditions no support at all.
Engineers, cant say much haven’t touched one for months and its still low level. But Im sure it is still one extreme or the other.
Necro, lots of conditions and damage and low support.

To me it feels like current builds go from extremes. Your either tanky support, or you are DPS GC. i believe the Ranger is something in between. A versatile class that can do both at the same time and very well too.

For niche situations you can pick one class or the other, or one spec or the other to be “the most efficient”

What do Rangers bring to the team? to decrease the margin for error.

This is….. idiotic. Mesmers bring no support kittenOLOLOL. And I guess my Guardian can do Whirling Blade for 9k, but that’s not “burst”.

And warrior banners are not some of the best dungeon support (what a joke).

KensaiZen.3740:

So what happens when you dont need to dodge the boss? Your damage will never drop. There is no downtine.

No need to roll.
No need to kite.
No need to cast a heal.
No need to disengage.
No need to chase a boss if he teleports.
No need to walk out of AoE.

You just fire away with no loss to damage via downtime.

If a boss and its adds…

never try to attack you
never aggro on you
never inflict any kind of damage on you
never wipe your party down to you
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards

…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.

This happens, though? o_O

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Can someone point me to OP’s video? Because it’s been 4 days and I couldn’t find it in this thread.

just finished loading it on Youtube. Bit busy with work.. will link it in a few minutes. Its nothing amazing so don’t hold your breath. However, it does highlight my point about the ranger in a dungeon and the playstyle.

Scenario;

Completely random dungeon run with completely inexperienced team. 1 never been in this dungeon before and not on voice chat. only 2 people (me included has been in this dungeon more then once) No one was told before hand any tactics or what to do so its a very ad hoc run to simulate normal PUG dungeon running (as no one will find a omfg elite group all the time)

You will notice that all the times that the pet dies are actually times when its not being used. There is always a pet swap available (this is where permanent stowing is a good idea Dev’s).

There was one crash which made me miss the Lava part. (the game is very unstable on my Dell XPS) and the game returned to windows 3 times as the recording software stopped recording and automatically minimised the screen.

On boss fight, I was attempting to keep the aggro and hold the boss at the gate. Doesn’t look like it worked though as they may have fixed this and the boss kept teleporting away when it got close to the door.

The build was pure power and survival so no where near a GC. Armour was PVT with Runes of the noble (because I like loot and an extra dog)

Like I mentioned, it is not an amazing video. It is not meant to be an elite know the dungeon like the back of your hand run. This is a simulation of what it would actually be like for people to play on a standard level. You may say I am bad with the Ranger, you may say the team was bad in general. But how many % of the GW2 population is elite? not a lot.

Bring the pain

I will do a proper video with a proper boss fight later. This one was mainly to do with keeping pet alive in a dungeon.

Unfortunately

Prysin.8542:

CoF =/= the whole game

just sayin…. there is more to this game then a broken dungeon

There’re dungeons like CM and Arah, or even HotW, that are way past CoF level, please don’t use CoF as a dungeon run example.

Edit: some might argue CoF path 3, but it just takes a long time, not hard.

Recycle.5493:

There’re dungeons like CM and Arah, or even HotW, that are way past CoF level, please don’t use CoF as a dungeon run example.

Caudecus’s Manor? Are we talking about the same dungeon? You know, that’s pretty cake for a Ranger considering half the mobs literally don’t move. They’ll stand there not doing a kitten thing while your dog chews their kitten off.

HotW? When has this ever been hard? The only thing I’m dreading as I’m leveling my Ranger is fractals. So far? It’s all cake. Yeah, pets die and spirits can’t do crap in a lot of spots, but that’s not the end of the world. Swap em out, don’t be afraid to jump into the fray and get stuff done.

Having played as a LB + Eagle Eye Ranger:

KensaiZen.3740:

you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.

This is not always the case.

KensaiZen.3740:

same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.

You don’t always have a choice.

KensaiZen.3740:

we have access to regens on trait and signet.

Which build are we talking about again?

KensaiZen.3740:

At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?

When you’re the only survivor of a party wipe, the boss is down to 5-10% health, and your party’s clamoring for you to try to finish the fight instead ofdisengaging and resetting it, dps and/or the ability to survive/sustain a solo fight against a boss and its adds matters.

KensaiZen.3740:

Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are

A 1500 distance from all hostile elements in a boss fight is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.

Simply moving out of AoEs is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

They have come for me regardless. I don’t know what to tell you.

Leo G.4501:

Caudecus’s Manor? Are we talking about the same dungeon? You know, that’s pretty cake for a Ranger considering half the mobs literally don’t move. They’ll stand there not doing a kitten thing while your dog chews their kitten off.

Please tell me how you manage your pets when facing Turmaine and Wahlen, I have no problem with other bosses, but I have a hard time keeping my pets alive when facing these two.

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

KensaiZen.3740:

swiftpaw.6397:

So going by this no class is effective as warrior is the only effective class.
Out of curiosity, what i the fastest time you have done in Arah with 5 warriors?

Comprehension again Kensai. I am saying that ranger is not as effective as warrior. In a dungeon situation. Not that all classes are not effective as warrior.

You clearly highlight the effectiveness of a class is due to how efficiently they can clear a dungeon. No class can clear a dungeon as quick as a warrior. Thus against a warrior all classes are inefficient.

I was making the comparison between one of the most efficient classes and one of the least. Sure warriors are the most effective at DPS and provide better utility than ranger, but a guardian provides better support utility (which compensates for the damage it lacks vs warrior) than a warrior and a mesmer provides a balance of good support and damage and an ele has a versatility (better than a ranger) that means it can quickly adapt to the situation with stronger heals or dps or CC and so on. If we only looked at damage, yes, nothing trumps the warrior.

But from a usefulness in groups relating to effectiveness perspective we look also at utility which is what makes other classes worth taking in dungeons also. If you cannot provide great DPS, then you should at least be able to provide great utility.

The ranger’s utility is not up to par with other classes.

The real point I’m trying to make is that ranger cannot provide enough utility to make it
1.) worth taking over any other class.
and
2.) make up for it’s poor damage.

You’re trying hard to make me sound like some warriors only leetist. My main is a Guardian and my secondary main is a ranger. I’m just letting you know the reasons why I stopped taking my ranger in dungeons even if it is my most enjoyable class.

Rangers can bring a lot of CC and conditions. Sure a necro can bring more conditions but can it bring the same amount as a Ranger? CC, conditions, support all rolled into one.

Guardian has low burst but high support.
Warrior has high burst and low support (I’ve never seen someone spec for both on the same build)
Mesmers bring damage and conditions no support at all.
Engineers, cant say much haven’t touched one for months and its still low level. But Im sure it is still one extreme or the other.
Necro, lots of conditions and damage and low support.

To me it feels like current builds go from extremes. Your either tanky support, or you are DPS GC. i believe the Ranger is something in between. A versatile class that can do both at the same time and very well too.

For niche situations you can pick one class or the other, or one spec or the other to be “the most efficient”

What do Rangers bring to the team? to decrease the margin for error.

This is….. idiotic. Mesmers bring no support kittenOLOLOL. And I guess my Guardian can do Whirling Blade for 9k, but that’s not “burst”.

And warrior banners are not some of the best dungeon support (what a joke).

They certainly weren’t half the reason for the quickness nerf on account of their ability to turn a group of warriors into a mobile meat grinder that made a joke of dungeons.

No, not at all.

Also vale isn’t a thing and not at all useful in WvW.

Recycle.5493:

Leo G.4501:

Caudecus’s Manor? Are we talking about the same dungeon? You know, that’s pretty cake for a Ranger considering half the mobs literally don’t move. They’ll stand there not doing a kitten thing while your dog chews their kitten off.

Please tell me how you manage your pets when facing Turmaine and Wahlen, I have no problem with other bosses, but I have a hard time keeping my pets alive when facing these two.

If anything, the pet’s working double duty rezzing people, for me. That and taking my conditions for me. The best way to manage the pet, in my experience, is to keep it by your side and keep yourself alive while you range.

The better your group is about keeping themselves alive, the less you have to manage. Turmaine will be throwing around AoE fields everywhere but around himself until the pet draws its attention.

I find, when the guy gets ‘stuck’ is when your pet is boned. It’s extremely hard to keep pets by your and safe when you’re barely sitting on the edge of the AoEs. And he’ll be doing nothing but that when he’s stuck.

So that’s my advice…but then I’m a sucky ranger. I only use Romeo and Lancelot (Jag and Hound) and rarely ever switch. If you can manage a ranged pet, you’d get more mileage out of them, I’d bet. Set it up somewhere using Guard and hope your team doesn’t go that way with Turmain’s attention.

I think the other side though is, yes, pets are going to die (if you can’t swap them fast enough). Which means, you’ve got a 40+ second time frame you need to keep your other pet up otherwise you’ll be sans pet for a time.

And Wahlen is a funny fight. Not sure why, but his AoE bomb barrage seems hit or miss. Half the time my pet is perfectly fine throughout a barrage and other times they’re gone amidst the window I’m dodging. My only advice would probably be, you need to be where no one else is so when you call it back/move yourself, there’s likely no AoE in that part. Wahlen tends to bomb where there are people (some of the time) and that’s where your pet needs to not be.

Just to throw a contradiction to my point of view, managing the pet is key but there’s nothing I could do in the last fight in TA (can’t remember which path, but the seed turret one, I believe).

Since everyone was ranging the boss and the seed turrets will attack the moment the pet runs in range, there’s literally nothing I could think of doing to make use of the pet. He’d either get shot down by the turrets or the boss itself would stomp the pet flat nearly before it could do anything.

But in that situation, everyone is kittened. They’re using subpar ranged damage to pretty much afk the boss anyway. At least for me, I have pretty decent ranged damage…likely not as good as others there since I wear tankish gear but it gets the job done.

KensaiZen.3740:

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Are you an idiot, or do you want a video of Whirling Wrath hitting for that number? Because full berserker guardians do that even higher.

Either way this won’t be solved until mechanisms like meters are released to parse data so misleading people like you can get called out for the vagueness of arguments (rangers are versatile! warriors have no support! guardians have no damage!)

I just can’t believe someone said Whirling Wrath can’t hit for 9k. Rapid Fore can hit for 14-17k, for goodness’s sake. Hardhitting skills exist on pretty much every class but the necromancer.

I urge you to try my bowman beastmaster build for dungeons . U will have perma 10+ might and obscene sustained damage by constantly swapping weapons . Quite good i think

Piercing Arrows should be baseline for bows just like they are for the engineer rifle….

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Are you an idiot, or do you want a video of Whirling Wrath hitting for that number? Because full berserker guardians do that even higher.

Either way this won’t be solved until mechanisms like meters are released to parse data so misleading people like you can get called out for the vagueness of arguments (rangers are versatile! warriors have no support! guardians have no damage!)

I just can’t believe someone said Whirling Wrath can’t hit for 9k. Rapid Fore can hit for 14-17k, for goodness’s sake. Hardhitting skills exist on pretty much every class but the necromancer.

I would love to see a Video of a non GC Guardian hitting for 9k with Whirling wrath. I am far more experienced on a Guardian then I am on a Ranger and I would love to see it. In a WvW situation there is no one that will hit 9k with WW. Anyone and their mother can dodge it.

So, lets see all these damage numbers people keep raving about in “live” situations. I hate to keep repeating myself about potential damage and effective damage.

Recycle.5493:

Unfortunately

Prysin.8542:

CoF =/= the whole game

just sayin…. there is more to this game then a broken dungeon

There’re dungeons like CM and Arah, or even HotW, that are way past CoF level, please don’t use CoF as a dungeon run example.

Edit: some might argue CoF path 3, but it just takes a long time, not hard.

CM? difficult? you do realise this armour set has 6 superior runes of the noble right? CM is a cake walk. Especially for a Ranger. Majority of mobs stand perfectly still. You still receive benefits of spirit buffs through walls. you can easily lure mobs into choke points to AoE them with barrage and piercing arrows. You know what, I will make a video of CM just for you.

CoF = does not equal the whole game
Arah = does not equal the whole game
HotW = does not equal the whole game
Fractals 40+ = does not equal the whole game

What is the real point of your argument? I think you people are losing track of what it is your complaining about.

achensherd.2735:

Having played as a LB + Eagle Eye Ranger:

KensaiZen.3740:

you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.

This is not always the case.

KensaiZen.3740:

same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.

You don’t always have a choice.

KensaiZen.3740:

we have access to regens on trait and signet.

Which build are we talking about again?

KensaiZen.3740:

At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?

When you’re the only survivor of a party wipe, the boss is down to 5-10% health, and your party’s clamoring for you to try to finish the fight instead ofdisengaging and resetting it, dps and/or the ability to survive/sustain a solo fight against a boss and its adds matters.

KensaiZen.3740:

Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are

A 1500 distance from all hostile elements in a boss fight is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.

Simply moving out of AoEs is not always possible.

KensaiZen.3740:

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

They have come for me regardless. I don’t know what to tell you.

It is not always the case… but then it is not always the case with every other profession and tactic. But more often then not, it is always the case for me.

KensaiZen.3740:

It is not always the case… but then it is not always the case with every other profession and tactic. But more often then not, it is always the case for me.

Then there’s nothing separating us from any other class capable of >1200 ranged attacks. What you’ve shown so far is that we, like any other class, are capable of running a dungeon. What has yet to be shown is how we’re godly at it, which is what’s necessary for the thread title (presently “Ranged…. Rangers are Godly (better?)”) to be accurate, and what’s necessary to make a compelling case for Rangers in high level group content.

achensherd.2735:

KensaiZen.3740:

It is not always the case… but then it is not always the case with every other profession and tactic. But more often then not, it is always the case for me.

Then there’s nothing separating us from any other class capable of >1200 ranged attacks. What you’ve shown so far is that we, like any other class, are capable of running a dungeon. What has yet to be shown is how we’re godly at it, which is what’s necessary for the thread title (presently “Ranged…. Rangers are Godly (better?)”) to be accurate, and what’s necessary to make a compelling case for Rangers in high level group content.

Except we can also do it at 1500. This is just getting silly now. It is not always the case but with this playstyle it does not happen often. Most other classes cannot do their full potential at range.

KensaiZen.3740:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PBnbCd9jMM

Scenario;

Completely random dungeon run with completely inexperienced team. 1 never been in this dungeon before and not on voice chat. only 2 people (me included has been in this dungeon more then once) No one was told before hand any tactics or what to do so its a very ad hoc run to simulate normal PUG dungeon running (as no one will find a omfg elite group all the time)

You will notice that all the times that the pet dies are actually times when its not being used. There is always a pet swap available (this is where permanent stowing is a good idea Dev’s).

There was one crash which made me miss the Lava part. (the game is very unstable on my Dell XPS) and the game returned to windows 3 times as the recording software stopped recording and automatically minimised the screen.

On boss fight, I was attempting to keep the aggro and hold the boss at the gate. Doesn’t look like it worked though as they may have fixed this and the boss kept teleporting away when it got close to the door.

The build was pure power and survival so no where near a GC. Armour was PVT with Runes of the noble (because I like loot and an extra dog)

Like I mentioned, it is not an amazing video. It is not meant to be an elite know the dungeon like the back of your hand run. This is a simulation of what it would actually be like for people to play on a standard level. You may say I am bad with the Ranger, you may say the team was bad in general. But how many % of the GW2 population is elite? not a lot.

Bring the pain

Just a few observations.

To me it seems that you try to make up for slacker behavior by bringing the spirits as “support”. Why no Healing Spring? Cause your job is to plinker away at max range? An Elite skill you pressed once in the whole instance? At least you use Barrage frequently, that’s more than i can say for the average LB pug Ranger.

The gear/traits you’re using make your single-target damage just a tad higher than what a AH Guardian does with his scepter, no joke. On Prison Warden, look at all those Might buffs you’re missing out on and you don’t even have a Warrior in the group.

In the bomb room when two of your mates are down and you finally gain some agro with your low sword swinging damage, you instantly drop to the ground. What was the tanky armor for again?

And then you top it off by calling shot-gun on the AFK boss, despite it’s obsession over the D/D Elemental who almost died being chased by it.

Honestly, the main impression was a Guardian, ironically the only one using 2 consumables, who had to work twice as hard to lead his guild mates through one of the easiest dungeons. Did you leave your own Guardian as main because it was too much responsibility?

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Are you an idiot, or do you want a video of Whirling Wrath hitting for that number? Because full berserker guardians do that even higher.

Either way this won’t be solved until mechanisms like meters are released to parse data so misleading people like you can get called out for the vagueness of arguments (rangers are versatile! warriors have no support! guardians have no damage!)

I just can’t believe someone said Whirling Wrath can’t hit for 9k. Rapid Fore can hit for 14-17k, for goodness’s sake. Hardhitting skills exist on pretty much every class but the necromancer.

I would love to see a Video of a non GC Guardian hitting for 9k with Whirling wrath. I am far more experienced on a Guardian then I am on a Ranger and I would love to see it. In a WvW situation there is no one that will hit 9k with WW. Anyone and their mother can dodge it.

So, lets see all these damage numbers people keep raving about in “live” situations. I hate to keep repeating myself about potential damage and effective damage.

Who said it was a WvW situation? In dungeons mobs don’t dodge. Thjere are no 14k rapid fires in WvW either because targets move and the arrows fail to hit or the person dodges part of the channel.

But in dungeons it’s easily doable.

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

Zenith.7301:

KensaiZen.3740:

See now your both just taking about potential damage rather than effective damage. Whirling wrath actually hits people for a full 9k? oh please.

“If a boss and its adds…
never try to attack you – you would be out of range. It would select a closer target.
never aggro on you – same as above. You shouldn’t be anywhere near its agro range.
never inflict any kind of damage on you – we have access to regens on trait and signet.
never wipe your party down to you – At this point do you even need to worry about DPS? what good is a GC wwarriors DPS if he is on the floor?
never teleport/move outside of your range and/or behind obstructions – Then you move as well. A 1500 circumfrance is very large. You don’t have to remain completely static as you are
never cast any kind of AoE and there are no environmental hazards – you will not be in range for most AoE’s. If you are, just move, you will still be shooting.
…then yeah, you can turret it/them all day long with no downtime.”

Player positioning plays a very important role. Find a good firing spot and the likeliness of this happening is reduced. Find an amazing firing position and nothing will attack you. Do people even bother? no, they go for what they think is max DPS and run around with a shortbow TRYING to flank the target whilst trying not to die. At above 1200 range you are outside of a mobs agro field. Your party isn’t. why will they go for you? think about it. And here’s the other thing. If you have SoH equipped you should be fast enough to keep out of harms way.

Are you an idiot, or do you want a video of Whirling Wrath hitting for that number? Because full berserker guardians do that even higher.

Either way this won’t be solved until mechanisms like meters are released to parse data so misleading people like you can get called out for the vagueness of arguments (rangers are versatile! warriors have no support! guardians have no damage!)

I just can’t believe someone said Whirling Wrath can’t hit for 9k. Rapid Fore can hit for 14-17k, for goodness’s sake. Hardhitting skills exist on pretty much every class but the necromancer.

I would love to see a Video of a non GC Guardian hitting for 9k with Whirling wrath. I am far more experienced on a Guardian then I am on a Ranger and I would love to see it. In a WvW situation there is no one that will hit 9k with WW. Anyone and their mother can dodge it.

So, lets see all these damage numbers people keep raving about in “live” situations. I hate to keep repeating myself about potential damage and effective damage.

Who said it was a WvW situation? In dungeons mobs don’t dodge. Thjere are no 14k rapid fires in WvW either because targets move and the arrows fail to hit or the person dodges part of the channel.

But in dungeons it’s easily doable.

Exactly, which is why I am saying just use effective damage numbers. a Guardian can do 9k WW in a dungeon, a Ranger does 14k with rapid fire. Where is the argument? both would be GC so the ratio would still be the same.

Gambit.8425:

KensaiZen.3740:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PBnbCd9jMM

Scenario;

Completely random dungeon run with completely inexperienced team. 1 never been in this dungeon before and not on voice chat. only 2 people (me included has been in this dungeon more then once) No one was told before hand any tactics or what to do so its a very ad hoc run to simulate normal PUG dungeon running (as no one will find a omfg elite group all the time)

You will notice that all the times that the pet dies are actually times when its not being used. There is always a pet swap available (this is where permanent stowing is a good idea Dev’s).

There was one crash which made me miss the Lava part. (the game is very unstable on my Dell XPS) and the game returned to windows 3 times as the recording software stopped recording and automatically minimised the screen.

On boss fight, I was attempting to keep the aggro and hold the boss at the gate. Doesn’t look like it worked though as they may have fixed this and the boss kept teleporting away when it got close to the door.

The build was pure power and survival so no where near a GC. Armour was PVT with Runes of the noble (because I like loot and an extra dog)

Like I mentioned, it is not an amazing video. It is not meant to be an elite know the dungeon like the back of your hand run. This is a simulation of what it would actually be like for people to play on a standard level. You may say I am bad with the Ranger, you may say the team was bad in general. But how many % of the GW2 population is elite? not a lot.

Bring the pain

Just a few observations.

To me it seems that you try to make up for slacker behavior by bringing the spirits as “support”. Why no Healing Spring? Cause your job is to plinker away at max range? An Elite skill you pressed once in the whole instance? At least you use Barrage frequently, that’s more than i can say for the average LB pug Ranger.

The gear/traits you’re using make your single-target damage just a tad higher than what a AH Guardian does with his scepter, no joke. On Prison Warden, look at all those Might buffs you’re missing out on and you don’t even have a Warrior in the group.

In the bomb room when two of your mates are down and you finally gain some agro with your low sword swinging damage, you instantly drop to the ground. What was the tanky armor for again?

And then you top it off by calling shot-gun on the AFK boss, despite it’s obsession over the D/D Elemental who almost died being chased by it.

Honestly, the main impression was a Guardian, ironically the only one using 2 consumables, who had to work twice as hard to lead his guild mates through one of the easiest dungeons. Did you leave your own Guardian as main because it was too much responsibility?

Did you not read the brief? this wasn’t to show omfg eliteness amazing Ranger skills. It is to showcase a playstyle. I could have gone full GC in this video but I chose not to as I was intending to show that you can still do decent damage without going full GC, be relatively safe from danger. Not get agroed by the boss AND can keep the pet alive even with ONLY 5 POINTS IN BM.

As for the point about dropping. Please show me a video where you successfully stand and tank 10+ mobs longer then 1 second. I would really love to see it. Im pretty sure even with me being a not amazing Ranger that PVT and 30 in wilderness survival did actually do what it was supposed to do. Sorry but definite troll post.

Reason why I switched to GS instead of LB was for the traps. Cant use them if Im standing nice and safe far away from the action can I. Poor observation of intent.

The boss part wasn’t even worth mentioning. We aren’t trying to do it oh so pro style. It was all ad hoc. Reason Why I called the boss? to see if I could keep the agro and pull it out of the room. Didn’t work. So sue me. Used to work. Doesn’t anymore.

Have you actually been following this thread or just jumping in to troll the video?

KensaiZen.3740:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PBnbCd9jMM

Scenario;

Bring the pain

Wow, you let your group do most of the work in that video, and that was a very annoyingly slow kill rate you guys had there.

Only the Guardian in that group would be allowed in any of my future groups.

Makes thread about godly ranger DPS…

Can’t prove it, makes video about keeping pets alive in easy dungeon…

At the same time shows god-awful DPS and doesn’t even use healing spring whilst wearing magic find runes.

Calls anyone who questions him a troll.

Trolls calling trolls trolls? kittenololol?

Oy, you guys seem only interested in flaming people. But without sugar coating my criticism, no, none of those 5 players really did all that well. Maybe the Guardian was alright (don’t know much about guardian play) but none of their performances were anything but mediocre so picking on the poster just because its from the perspective of a Ranger, and attempting to mask the lack of performance solely on the Ranger just side steps the point that they all aren’t super great.

The main point I’d agree with is the use of utilities. You didn’t really take advantage of your elite skill and your use of spirits sort of irritated me throughout. Why put your spirits in a spot where only you get the effects? That happened quite a few times and feel a bit wasted. You had sig of the hunt there but hardly used any kind of mobility so why not just use it to give your pet a boost? It’s only a 30 sec cooldown so it’d be recharged fast enough after each fight…or better yet, why not use Search and Rescue? Instead of letting your other teammates worry about the dead, make use of that pet!

And like mentioned, if you have a guardian or warrior (the more the merrier) in your group, charge into melee every now and then. Share some of that attention and feast on those extra boons.

But I don’t really know the ins and outs of rangers or your build…but you have survival training skill and sword/GS cooldown traits but never use them (much). Not sure if the extra damage for being 90% health does so much to stick to the back but it didn’t seem necessary for calling back your pet as most of the time he was up.

Not talking down or anything, just my observations. I’m not super great at the game either but I get by. As for why no healing spring, I tend to rather keep my pet alive than put down fields no one will use often. Definitely use it in CM or Arah as the condition removal helps a ton, but for me, my pet is my main source of damage and I have to keep it alive and the spring doesn’t do that very well.

KensaiZen.3740:

Mesmers bring damage and conditions no support at all.

I quite liked that you were trying your best to stick up for the class and I see your heart is in the right place so to speak, but when you make statements like that you really lose all credability.

Here is a list of mesmer skills that support allies:

mirror blade – gives allies might
winds of chaos – gives allies might & fury
chaos storm – gives allies swiftness, aegis & retaliation
temporal curtain – gives allies swiftness
phantasmal warden – protects allies from projectiles
phantasmal mage – gives allies retaliation
sirens call – gives allies might, vigor & swiftness
spinning revenge – gives retaliation to allies
feedback – reflects projectiles back at target and away from your team
null field – cures all condtions on allies
veil – grants stealth to allies
illusion of life – revives allies
phantasmal disenchanter – removes conditions on allies
signet of inspiration – copys your boons to allies
mass invisibility – gives allies stealth
time warp – gives allies swiftness

And thats missing out the countless control skills that blind, transform, stun & immobilise enemies or skills such as portal that allow the mesmer to help an entire team past a tricky obstacle.

Carry on defending the class, sure. But don’t speak of things you clearly have no clue about, it only weakens your cause.

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

Ok now heres the point. The video was supposed to show a playstyle. Not show how great the Ranger can be. Someone asked for a video to show that you can keep pets alive. Thats exactly the video.

Other ones are coming. For the record i generally dont take healing spring if the group doesnt need it. TU works better at keeping the pet alive to be used effectively.

Just finished a video of HotW quick run. This one will also highlight player positioning and pet management. Also traited for higher damage but not full GC. I will upload it tomorrow.

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

What? There’s nothing wrong with the list. It’s a list of skills that mesmers have that offer support to a group, not a discussion about how effective they are. If I’d omitted skills that offered support then it wouldn’t be a complete list, and then it would be a bad list.

I know they dont grant all those boons at the same time, but they could if they hit 1 player repeatedly, the mesmer traits for extra bounce, has swiftness on or there is more than one mesmer in the group. The effectiveness of phantasmal disenchanter does not stop it from still being counted as a skill that offers support, same goes for null field which is still actually a brilliant skill. Illusion of life is very situational and mostly rubbish, ill grant you that, but if im making a list of support skills I still have to include it.

Regaurdless of all that it still offers better support than my ranger. And I say that as an avid ranger supporter and player.

Anyway, im glad you still agree with what im saying in the end. Makes me wonder why you felt the need to try and pick apart the list in the first place.

Oh and if you guys have forgotten. The point once again is that rangers have kitten damage because damage is shared with a pet that dies all the time in a dungeon. Well if it doesnt die…. what the hell are you complaining about?

You all can make a high damage build. Im not a Ranger elite neither am i amazing with a Ranger, but if i can keep the pets alive to do extra damage. Why cant you?

I would love to see people running GC builds in dungeons they dont know like the back of their hands.

Rhaps.8540:

Leo G.4501:

Not a very good list, Rhaps.

For one, winds of chaos, siren’s call, such bouncing skills don’t give vigor, might, fury and swiftness. They give vigor, might, fury OR swiftness. They are random boons that may or may not last very long and boons/conditions from illusions aren’t affected by your duration %. So extra boons from them often are very short lived along with being random.

Illusion of Life is likely the worst revive skill as it can thwart other attempts to revive in progress and can fail to do anything but put your ally in an instant dead state. Phantasmal Disenchanter is abysmal and slow. If it ever removes any of your conditions, those conditions have likely taken their toll regardless. Null field does’t quite cure all conditions, it cures conditions per pulse so you have to stay in the field while it works.

…but yeah, a Mesmer can certainly support well. With its toolbag of CC and phenomenal traits, you can passively give allies regeneration via phantasms, you can heal people around you from casting mantras, you can remove boons and Phantasmal Defender can cut damage by 50% of those hit within its range. I’d even say mesmer, when specc’ed for it are probably the 2nd or 3rd best support there is.

What? There’s nothing wrong with the list. It’s a list of skills that mesmers have that offer support to a group, not a discussion about how effective they are. If I’d omitted skills that offered support then it wouldn’t be a complete list, and then it would be a bad list.

I know they dont grant all those boons at the same time, but they could if they hit 1 player repeatedly, the mesmer traits for extra bounce, has swiftness on or there is more than one mesmer in the group. The effectiveness of phantasmal disenchanter does not stop it from still being counted as a skill that offers support, same goes for null field which is still actually a brilliant skill. Illusion of life is very situational and mostly rubbish, ill grant you that, but if im making a list of support skills I still have to include it.

Regaurdless of all that it still offers better support than my ranger. And I say that as an avid ranger supporter and player.

Anyway, im glad you still agree with what im saying in the end. Makes me wonder why you felt the need to try and pick apart the list in the first place.

Same argument as Rangers bring nothing to the group.