Guild Wars 2

Yeah but “it’s anets vision that D/D should be condi” – we have to adapt to that.

Jana.6831:

Yeah but “it’s anets vision that D/D should be condi” – we have to adapt to that.

Hmm yeah, but Anet needs to get it into it’s head that the players are the ones playing the game and paying lol. They should give us the freedom to change our builds as we envision them

Cnd is weird. 1 night after coming home drunk I played s bit of d/d vs a condi tempest. Skip to 2:23, that cnd should not of hit imo. https://youtu.be/0Fh84-ltXbU

Their mistake was/is that they have no balance team – that cost them quite a lot of players and those won’t come back – making the game harder now by nerfing the elites would cost them the faceroll players who are the ones that are left.
There’s additionally some weirdos like me who are a general nuisance and not to be taken seriously.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

Cnd is weird. 1 night after coming home drunk I played s bit of d/d vs a condi tempest. Skip to 2:23, that cnd should not of hit imo. https://youtu.be/0Fh84-ltXbU

2:23, are you sure? I don’t see a CnD there.

ETA: 2.13 is one and it should have hit and did hit. They are working on it – it is a bit wonky lately again, it was solid after the ICD patch.

It’s just after. I can’t share times on mobile phone like you can on a Web browser.

Alright, trying to find it – watching your video in 0.25 – I hope you appreciate it :P

Edit: It’s 2:28 and that’s difficult because you basically hit his skill, no idea if that counts as being him or his plateau.
I think that’s still legit – even if he hadn’t all this fluff around him.

I don’t mind. I not fought a condi tempest on d/d so most of them deathblossoms were predicted cast attacks to clear condis. The only regret was not recording the first fights (didn’t think of it)

Your opponent seemed pretty shy – but yeah, I guess all of us should make more videos to show some examples how the game is like for us.

Jana.6831:

Your opponent seemed pretty shy – but yeah, I guess all of us should make more videos to show some examples how the game is like for us.

Nooooo, most of my fights are “ok steal in backstab and try to dodge”… steals in then dies instantly… well kitten

Well like the I fo said. That was fight number 5, and I won 3 of them back to back. I guess he was being a bit too careful this time and a mixture of not wanting to fight at all as he alt f4.

Yeah, probably.
I quit the warrior yesterday as I imagined our fights being a bit boring for him – but I was as reckless as ever which probably was my mistake.

Menmaro.4607:

Jana.6831:

Your opponent seemed pretty shy – but yeah, I guess all of us should make more videos to show some examples how the game is like for us.

Nooooo, most of my fights are “ok steal in backstab and try to dodge”… steals in then dies instantly… well kitten

Yeah well – could make a good video as well “One Hit Wonder”.
I’m pretty good at marketing videos, btw.

Jana.6831:

Menmaro.4607:

Jana.6831:

Your opponent seemed pretty shy – but yeah, I guess all of us should make more videos to show some examples how the game is like for us.

Nooooo, most of my fights are “ok steal in backstab and try to dodge”… steals in then dies instantly… well kitten

Yeah well – could make a good video as well “One Hit Wonder”.
I’m pretty good at marketing videos, btw.

Hmmm good idea, although I play gw2 on low settings so I doubt people would like to watch 30 fps thief one hit wonder xD

Menmaro.4607:

Hmmm good idea, although I play gw2 on low settings so I doubt people would like to watch 30 fps thief one hit wonder xD

I do too
But then again, I’m a woman, so no one expects me to do great stuff.

ETA:
“And here’s my one hit wonder low resolution 30 fps video in which I show 50 deaths to mhhm bop by the Hansons”
“Nice, Jana slowclap”

Jana.6831:

Menmaro.4607:

Hmmm good idea, although I play gw2 on low settings so I doubt people would like to watch 30 fps thief one hit wonder xD

I do too
But then again, I’m a woman, so no one expects me to do great stuff.

ETA:
“And here’s my one hit wonder low resolution 30 fps video in which I show 50 deaths to mhhm bop by the Hansons”
“Nice, Jana slowclap”

not to sound like a feminist or anything but have you seen terissimo? She’s a girl and kitten does she play thief so well. Just cuz ur a woman doesnt mean you can’t outproduce a guy :P

Menmaro.4607:

not to sound like a feminist or anything but have you seen terissimo? She’s a girl and kitten does she play thief so well. Just cuz ur a woman doesnt mean you can’t outproduce a guy :P

I haven’t seen her but I heard of her, so I guess she’s great.
I know that I can outplay guys – I mean in the end most people take ages to get that this ugly sensitive looking gigantic male human thief is in fact a female player – but: no one expects it HAH! (me to be great, that is)

ETA: We’re getting slightly offtopic here, btw
It’s really a shame that we can’t have a chit chat thread in each subforum – that would be awesome.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Stealth Gyro is an abomination, a very stupid idea. It should only detect stealth but not apply stealth. Should be renamed and redesigned as Anti-stealth Gyro.

I think the Gyro by itself is fine but they paired it with two blocks, two invulns, additional stealth, easy reflect and sometimes Bulwark. They have so much defense accessible pure bunker builds are nigh unkillable outside of an outmanned situation.

Although my FA Tempest has been blowing them up with relative ease. Course it gets torn up by a variety of other classes/builds.

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

Dunno. Acro runs two or more passive procs on either IR/PR and HtC since those aren’t either just terrible or weapon-dependent, and assuming it’s played power. But then you’re kind of out of good fury, damage on LA, and a significant interrupt on SoH for denial.

DeceiverX.8361:

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Wow, I can’t find out how to play as a core Thief without DA/CS/T.
I tried SA recently, but found out I’m too aggressive to reap the benefits of Stealth.

I fight on point much more than I should, and SA relies way too much on Stealth for survival, which means I can’t contest points. And even then, I can’t survive conditions well enough without Trickster.

So I’m right back to where I started. I use D/P and SB for the viability in PvP. But I still use the same setup whenever I try other sets as well.

I guess I rely too much on the damage output from CS. I just wish there was more utility in that traitline. I can do without all of the major traits except for No Quarter.

I would hope for a trait to bypass (either completely or partially) some defenses. Or perhaps a trait that removes a condition on a critical… so I won’t be 100% reliant on Trickery’s Trickster.

But again, the problem with CS is the same with CnD. You actually have to successfully hit for it to actually do anything. And not only hit, you have to crit as well. I really don’t like immunities from direct damage… 33% from Protection is understandable. But 100% for 8 seconds with no way to break through it? That’s way too over the top!

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

But Acro provides vigor and shorter steal CD, and a passive dodge, and heals on attacking or Ini and Regen on dodges which is even more of a crutch.

So the only non crutch solution is to only run DA/CS without third line activated.

Kageseigi.2150:

DeceiverX.8361:

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Wow, I can’t find out how to play as a core Thief without DA/CS/T.
I tried SA recently, but found out I’m too aggressive to reap the benefits of Stealth.

I fight on point much more than I should, and SA relies way too much on Stealth for survival, which means I can’t contest points. And even then, I can’t survive conditions well enough without Trickster.

So I’m right back to where I started. I use D/P and SB for the viability in PvP. But I still use the same setup whenever I try other sets as well.

I guess I rely too much on the damage output from CS. I just wish there was more utility in that traitline. I can do without all of the major traits except for No Quarter.

I would hope for a trait to bypass (either completely or partially) some defenses. Or perhaps a trait that removes a condition on a critical… so I won’t be 100% reliant on Trickery’s Trickster.

But again, the problem with CS is the same with CnD. You actually have to successfully hit for it to actually do anything. And not only hit, you have to crit as well. I really don’t like immunities from direct damage… 33% from Protection is understandable. But 100% for 8 seconds with no way to break through it? That’s way too over the top!

SA should be giving you way better cleansing unless you spend most of your time out of stealth, either indicating that you’re not playing OH pistol or simply aren’t playing it in a manner cohesive to the traits, which as you said, is probably because you play too aggressively. SA rewards more passive play, and that’s why it got nerfed hard, and is also why I think the trait line is conceptually flawed and always has been. SE is one of the better cleanses in the game when used to its fullest potential, however. EA just dominates it in every respect because it’s faster. Trickster is good, but BT is regarded as being a much more important trait to take in more competitive play where boons mean everything, and conditions typically come with longer pressure times and in more frequency in higher tiers, meaning the once-per-15s cleanse on Trickster isn’t good enough in most cases.

The problem with SA in keeping thief able to contest points is the dependency on the gains being tied to stealth and stealth not preventing captures. Of course, it’d be pretty overpowered if stealth-camped players could deny captures. SA was meta prior to Daredevil almost exclusively from SE and through denying the enemy map awareness, despite the fact the trait line is still suffering from being nerfed when it was overpowered and gave too much to everything and massively rewarded players camping stealth forever. It’s had no compensation in regards to leaving stealth or even entering it repeatedly as to promote in/out styles of play except the new Rending Shade, but that itself is a blunder since it needs to deal damage to land, and thus somewhat defeats the purpose (especially when aegis is in the mix; the trait then is literally worthless on its own), particularly with the ICD on stealth attacks preventing re-tries in most cases when against skilled players. You’ll get way less mileage from SA in sPvP than in WvW due to point-capture dependencies, though.

SA right now is a conceptual mess, and CS is underpowered for PvP environments since it can be relatively matched by DA and Daredevil in damage outpu, with both obviously having much better utility. I think you over-value NQ; it’s a very small increase in damage such that it’s almost tied by Ferocious Strikes alone.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

But Acro provides vigor and shorter steal CD, and a passive dodge, and heals on attacking or Ini and Regen on dodges which is even more of a crutch.

So the only non crutch solution is to only run DA/CS without third line activated.

lol, you caught on fast. When this is done, every trait line is a crutch.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

But Acro provides vigor and shorter steal CD, and a passive dodge, and heals on attacking or Ini and Regen on dodges which is even more of a crutch.

So the only non crutch solution is to only run DA/CS without third line activated.

lol, you caught on fast. When this is done, every trait line is a crutch.

10 hr day at work can’t compute online sarcasm today.

DeceiverX.8361:

SA should be giving you way better cleansing unless you spend most of your time out of stealth, either indicating that you’re not playing OH pistol or simply aren’t playing it in a manner cohesive to the traits, which as you said, is probably because you play too aggressively.

Yeah, I definitely use D/P, but I don’t use Stealth very much. Shadow Arts gave me issues with my playstyle…

I either don’t enter Stealth for just one condition, lest giving up a point… or I get hit with a lot of conditions at once, which would force me to spend way too much time in Stealth… or I get hit with one condi as soon as I cleanse another, in which Revealed lasts too long for me to enter Stealth enough.

Whatever the case, Critical Strikes feels a LOT faster in downing targets… whenever I can manage to down them. I tried Bountiful Theft with Shadow Arts, but I couldn’t get the boon-steal to balance out my condition-survivability. At the level I play at, I’m just happy to get a team who fights on point and doesn’t afk if down. Unfortunately, boon-steal doesn’t fix “impaired judgment.”

DeceiverX.8361:

I think you over-value NQ; it’s a very small increase in damage such that it’s almost tied by Ferocious Strikes alone.

Perhaps so. I think I also undervalue Practiced Tolerance. It adds nearly 14% critical damage. No Quarter gives over 16% additional critical damage. So with Ferocious Strikes, that’s what… 40+% critical damage just for those 3 traits?

Actually, how do Ferocious Strikes and Flawless Strike work? Are they additive or multiplicative?

Also, what is your opinion about Ferocious Strikes? Do you believe it would be acceptable to allow it to affect targets even below the 50% health threshold, or perhaps mirror Executioner to increase it to 20% damage increase against foes above 50% health?

EDIT: One more question… which amulet is numerically superior for DPS? Berserker or Assassin?

Kageseigi.2150:

DeceiverX.8361:

SA should be giving you way better cleansing unless you spend most of your time out of stealth, either indicating that you’re not playing OH pistol or simply aren’t playing it in a manner cohesive to the traits, which as you said, is probably because you play too aggressively.

Yeah, I definitely use D/P, but I don’t use Stealth very much. Shadow Arts gave me issues with my playstyle…

I either don’t enter Stealth for just one condition, lest giving up a point… or I get hit with a lot of conditions at once, which would force me to spend way too much time in Stealth… or I get hit with one condi as soon as I cleanse another, in which Revealed lasts too long for me to enter Stealth enough.

Whatever the case, Critical Strikes feels a LOT faster in downing targets… whenever I can manage to down them. I tried Bountiful Theft with Shadow Arts, but I couldn’t get the boon-steal to balance out my condition-survivability. At the level I play at, I’m just happy to get a team who fights on point and doesn’t afk if down. Unfortunately, boon-steal doesn’t fix “impaired judgment.”

DeceiverX.8361:

I think you over-value NQ; it’s a very small increase in damage such that it’s almost tied by Ferocious Strikes alone.

Perhaps so. I think I also undervalue Practiced Tolerance. It adds nearly 14% critical damage. No Quarter gives over 16% additional critical damage. So with Ferocious Strikes, that’s what… 40+% critical damage just for those 3 traits?

Actually, how do Ferocious Strikes and Flawless Strike work? Are they additive or multiplicative?

Also, what is your opinion about Ferocious Strikes? Do you believe it would be acceptable to allow it to affect targets even below the 50% health threshold, or perhaps mirror Executioner to increase it to 20% damage increase against foes above 50% health?

EDIT: One more question… which amulet is numerically superior for DPS? Berserker or Assassin?

The damage multipliers are multiplicative. In PvP I find Assassins to provide more burst, due to more crits.m, while Berserker tends to due more overall.

Azukas.1426:

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

Actually yeah – this is about the worst build one can have – no damage line (CS or DA). Might work against bad players.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The damage multipliers are multiplicative. In PvP I find Assassins to provide more burst, due to more crits.m, while Berserker tends to due more overall.

Thanks! So the traits No Quarter and Practiced Tolerance give me about 30% increased critical damage, while Ferocious Strikes gives me about a 21.7% increase (assuming a base of 217% critical damage), correct?

Kageseigi.2150:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The damage multipliers are multiplicative. In PvP I find Assassins to provide more burst, due to more crits.m, while Berserker tends to due more overall.

Thanks! So the traits No Quarter and Practiced Tolerance give me about 30% increased critical damage, while Ferocious Strikes gives me about a 21.7% increase (assuming a base of 217% critical damage), correct?

Ferocious Strikes doesn’t increase your Critical Damage the way ferocity/Critical Damage does, it is applied after your critical strike is already calculated which makes it very strong.

It would look like this (weapon damage*Power*coefficient)(Crit Damage*positive damage Modifiers)/ (Armor*negative damage modifiers)= crit damage*1.07= Actual damage

Lets be honest, this 1sec cd on backstab just killed d/d power thief, and nerfed the whole class in general(with the exception of staff thiefs). This change is just stupid, since thief is such a weak class in pvp already. Any1 who says this change is ok, deserved, stop playing your no skill condi/bunker mesmer/warrior/necro/guard and try to play d/d power thief, s/d or d/p thief(dont use staff as secondary weapon) and try to 1v1 any1, any of the popular condi builds, or bunker/ burst guards and then tell me that thief is strong and that he needs a nerf. The one thing thief was suposed to be good at(high, quick burst), he isnt rly doing good and gets outshined by other classes. I rly hope a thief buff is coming soon.
P.S. if some1 from anet is reading this tell your balance team that they are drunk, also they should lay off the heavy drugs(look at all the condi in pvp, its terrible!!!)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

DeceiverX.8361:

Everything from HoT except power reaper is an abomination, daredevil included.

I hate the fact that you’re making a statement that I have nothing to say but to agree.

Are you really so callous as to think you should inherently disagree with everything I say because we disagree on other subjects?

Obviously I made that post because I don’t think that I should be inherently in disagreement with you on everything. Yet, here we are, in a disagreement again.

Not disagreeing or intending to be confrontational. Just kind of shocked that despite our previous bouts you’d think we’d never be able to see eye-to-eye on anything.

Azukas.1426:

Jana.6831:

No, azukas talks about condi as to him/her D/D is a typical condi set and was never meant to be power OR EVEN IF WE HAVE TO GO WITH THE FLOW AND STOP COMPLAINING ALREADY

Then I fought a power d/d thief and realized that your weaponset of choice actually has build variety.

See I asked this thief about how he makes D/D viable, and he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

That’s more of a crutch build than SA ever was. $10 says the guy runs IR, too.

Daredevil is the epitome of crutches for thief. Actually, I’d reckon it’s probably the most potent set of crutches out of every profession/mechanic in the game except for dire geared-condi mesmer.

In all seriousness, nobody gets to brag about dropping crutches until they move to builds like DA/CS/Tr.

Does Da/Tr/Cs with P/P count as no crutches? Lol

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

Is this a joke? Because it’s a pretty bad 1. Preparedness isn’t the main reason why people take trickery :-/

Yeah, they were joking about the acro/drd/trickery build which is for better thieves who have got a better reaction time than I.

??? Yes because acro is more of a safe mode then sa, there is 2 passives in acro.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

??? Yes because acro is more of a safe mode then sa, there is 2 passives in acro.

We know. DrD is as well – 3 dodges, heal on evades which come with acro and DrD.

And of course with Death Blossom – so you can call yourself 1337 power D/D.
You don’t do damage but you are annoying – actually: that sounds like something I should be running. I’m nearly convinced.

i want normal atack if sneak atackgoes on cooldown.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

??? Yes because acro is more of a safe mode then sa, there is 2 passives in acro.

Yeah it was a sarcasm, just in case someone else missed it;

Azukas.1426:

…he replied, “You have to cut the cord from the SA trait line. It’s a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no reaction times.”

He the told me he runs Acrobatics, Trickery, and Daredevil.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Trick is a crutch that bad thieves rely on because they have no mental capacity to manage their Initiative pool.

You have to move to CS/DA/Acro to remove all crutches.

vedranbosna.2147:

Lets be honest, this 1sec cd on backstab just killed d/d power thief, and nerfed the whole class in general(with the exception of staff thiefs). This change is just stupid, since thief is such a weak class in pvp already. Any1 who says this change is ok, deserved, stop playing your no skill condi/bunker mesmer/warrior/necro/guard and try to play d/d power thief, s/d or d/p thief(dont use staff as secondary weapon) and try to 1v1 any1, any of the popular condi builds, or bunker/ burst guards and then tell me that thief is strong and that he needs a nerf. The one thing thief was suposed to be good at(high, quick burst), he isnt rly doing good and gets outshined by other classes. I rly hope a thief buff is coming soon.
P.S. if some1 from anet is reading this tell your balance team that they are drunk, also they should lay off the heavy drugs(look at all the condi in pvp, its terrible!!!)

^
Every so often I come back to check the forum, even though I quit this game 3 years ago, despite a very brief “comeback” of about a week not that long ago. Thief is in a horrible spot, very, very unsatisfying to play and I wish I could refund the 100euros I spent on the delux edition of HoT.

Anyway, upper post sums it up quite ok, don’t have much to add to it. Fix your kitten Anet or lose even more players. There’s a reason this topic has been seen 7000 times.

Kageseigi.2150:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The damage multipliers are multiplicative. In PvP I find Assassins to provide more burst, due to more crits.m, while Berserker tends to due more overall.

Thanks! So the traits No Quarter and Practiced Tolerance give me about 30% increased critical damage, while Ferocious Strikes gives me about a 21.7% increase (assuming a base of 217% critical damage), correct?

I think you get the idea of how the traits function relative to one another, but allow me to fully clarify.

NQ + PT will give you in total an increased critical damage multiplier stat value of 30%. This is different from FS, which gives a 10% outgoing damage modifier on critical hits. The 30% isn’t really 30%.

This is why I think NQ isn’t a very good trait outside of PvE; That 30% increased critical damage stat isn’t actually 30% increased damage. If your pre-both stat is 187, the bonus from both combined is only about a 187 * x = 217 => x = 16% total damage modifier. Ferocity is additive, while other damage modifiers aren’t. Take out NQ and you’re at 201%. NQ’s bonus damage is now only functionally an 8% difference. That also assumes marauder gear. The bonus continues to get relatively worse when your ferocity increases more.

Ferocious Strikes is really what’s pulling the work in the end. That 10% is modifying all of that crit damage by a factor of 1.1. As mentioned, this can get pretty big and means much more than NQ and PT.

This is actually why DA is taken over CS in every build; Exposed Weakness provides the same modifier as Ferocious Strikes, but the 10% damage gain from EW is easily maintained permanently, while Ferocious Strikes only applies 50% of a given fight (maybe slightly more). Meanwhile, the DA line boasts huge utility in mug (and extra damage), poison/weakness on steal, panic strike, and either functionally more damage via executioner or more utility on improvisation. Since it’s so hard to maintain Flawless Strikes, the 7% bonus is rarely gained, either.

When all the math is done out, CS is only marginally better for potential damage output than DA assuming optimal performance and all of its conditional modifiers working together. It has more consistency, but the sacrifices to utility often push DA to simply perform better in combat. That’s also why every thief in PvE runs CS, though, since it pushes better numbers at peak performance which is easy to maintain, and where the utility from DA doesn’t have any effect on the fights, while it’s largely defined DA’s success in the PvP formats.

Marauder gear’s implementation also directly hurt the viability of CS, since its consistency-driven use-case was effectively nullified by the thief being allowed to push very large crit chance and vitality levels with next to no power stat losses, which could only ever be previously done via valkyrie gear compensated by the reliability of the CS traitline.