Guild Wars 2

“Is she completely insane” yeah, I am but hear me out:

D/P is by far the best weaponset we have: gap closer, stealth “on demand”, interrupt and blind all on it.
Me as a D/D thief : Gap closer = steal (frequency depends on trickery), blind: CiS (now in grandmaster), interrupt: sleight of hand, only availlable via trickery.
A D/P thief usually doesn’t stay melee, a D/D thief has to. So, we need reliable condi clear which has been nerfed in June.
D/P now does more damage than D/D since June as the combo of a D/P thief is usually smoke field, heartseeker, shadowshot (which does more damage than CnD which is hard to land and puts the thief into the AoE range of the enemy)

So, if all traits are balanced around D/P which is the set with the most utility thief has got (staff aside) – then lets nerf D/P so the other weapon sets have got a chance.

EDIT: SUMMARY

All other thief builds had to get their utility from traits – all of these traits (except those in trickery) have been deleted back in June – the only thief build that was halfway viable has been D/P because they have all the utility other builds need to trait for on their weaponset. Still they can also trait for these utilities = have got twice as many. And since the utility on D/P is what most if not all thieves need or want (teleport, blind, smokefield = stealth) D/P are a lot stronger than any of the other thief’ builds.
Since offhand and mainhand weapon do always the same for every thief, except their distinguished #3, nerfing shadowshot and/or putting some of the utilities that is on the whole D/P set into traits would be an option. Reason: if you have nerfed the set you can buff the traits to which all thieves have got access to. Also D/P wouldn’t be as self sustained as it is now. D/P has always been stronger than any other set; simply putting back the traits the other builds need doesn’t really solve the problem, especially not since now the traits are merged. And I’d actually like to get the 50 movement speed in stealth and blind on stealth. I don’t need stealth on steal and the falling trait though.
I don’t want D/P to be nerfed to the ground, but I don’t want D/P to be the excuse why it’s not worked on thief any further – also I don’t think that simply buffing the other weapons would really bring other sets on par with D/P especially not since most of our traits are now best suited for D/P.

I do think it’s a shame that thief build diversity has been killed off in June – it’s not just about D/D, but I happen to know the set best.

The rest has been discussed in the thread – it might be sometimes painful to read.

Anet, please don’t just listen to your community – most S/D, D/D and P/D thieves have already quit – you won’t hear any suggestions from them anymore.

ETA² :
Right now a lot if not most traits favour the D/P playstyle – There’s no way other sets have access to all the traits as always 2 of them are glued together. This could be used to either redesign the traits to favour other sets (which would be an indirect nerf to D/P) or the most common traits are turned into either baseline or minor traits so every thief has got access to them. Still every set should be able to take the traits neccessary to make their set and/or playstyle work.

Sorry, but I can’t agree in the slightest. D/D needs some love, yes, but nerfing D/P wouldn’t make it any better. It would just make them both bad options and staff would probably be the only viable choice for PvP.

Wat?

Why not just buff/rework d/d?

You can’t make the traits more powerful or they are put into grandmaster to not make D/P op = the only halfway viable weaponset we have got is D/P (aside from staff which is a different topic).
So, let us all be unviable so they finally work on the rest of thief and not just assume that everybody plays D/P anyway and the other weaponsets don’t need care.

That’s just a bad argument. D/D is played completely differently than D/P and I would argue that Staff is even stronger.

D/D has very good aspects in it, cheap stealth access, throwing crippling daggers that deal good damage or evade while dealing damage and applying bleed.

It’s simply not viable in this meta as a pvp weapon set.

Ask for a buff for D/D not for a nerf of other half decent weapon sets.

Maybe new acro traitline will offer things that make D/D more viable, let’s hope because let’s face it…. Two daggers look kitten.

Both sets with the same weapon on each hand are pretty weak compared to 2 different weapons. I can’t defend nor disagree with this as I have no interest in either of them. I only play staff or d/p or on the odd occasion yolo s/d and short bow is just too good to give up.

I would like to see some love for power d/d but what can it realy compete with? Back stab is nice dmg, aa is nice dmg with poison and Hs is, well… I don’t think d/d was really designed in a way that we would of liked it to of been. It’s more of a hybrid weapon but again, why? Other classes can do that far better anyway.

Jana.6831:

So, let us all be unviable so they finally work on the rest of thief and not just assume that everybody plays D/P anyway and the other weaponsets don’t need care.

Sound strategy.

I think D/D was the assassins’s set – but it has been nerfed that many times (and the traits it relies on) that it’s now dead. To me it has never been a hybrid weapon and hybrid has never really been a thing anyway – the poison on dagger is nice to have and has it’s use, still it’s no “condi” for me.
The nerfs they did to D/D make no sense whatsoever as D/P now does everything better and I can’t imagine that was intended but it was the logical consequence if the utility in traits is inaccessible to D/D.

ETA: D/D once upon a time did more damage than D/P – now it does less because of the nerf to CnD. Also the only limiting factor to D/P was initative to which now every thief has got plenty access to (and I actually need it with SB) and D/P is also able to take SRej which now has initative regen, but I think they had access to it before as well, can’t remember. While D/D has to decide whether they want blind or regeneration.

I hope you guys get my point: I know D/P is hard to balance because main and offhand are also used in other sets but it can’t be that our whole class is balanced around this one weapon set.
And that being said; D/P uses different traits than every other build, so I really don’t understand why all of the other traits have been either deleted, moved out of reach or can’t be taken together anymore.

ETA²: That’s not even “D/P would be OP with it” that’s “screw every other build!!!” or “this sounds good, lets put it here, while we give revs blind on every hit and every other class regen with an IcD of 5s”

One question how is CiS back at master tier a buff to d/p?

It wouldn’t be – but there has to be a reason why it’s in GM.

I mean, I see where you’re coming from, but unlike nearly everything else in the game, I think buffs are the way to go rather than nerfs. D/P is good as is. Just give minor buffs to everything else. buff off hand dagger, d/d 3, and mainhand pistol

Jana.6831:

It wouldn’t be – but there has to be a reason why it’s in GM.

Stupidity is literally the answer.

D/D just needs better mobility on it (rework DB and DD) and either improved consistency or reduced initiative use on CnD. D/P is clearly meant to be more of a set which stays stealthed for an extended period of time between each attack, while D/D’s kit is more or less built entirely on commitment. Since we don’t have the stats to sustain, and Rejuv is but just one trait, I see no reason to force the viability of D/D solely into building for Rejuv. Giving the set more mobility and faster evasion on better engage/disengage would still let it sustain or reset a fight when landing CnD is just not possible, while not overtuning CnD and stealth as a whole for the kit.

I feel like they couldn’t decide on making D/D play like an assassin spec or a sustained fighting one. It had and still largely has the burst of assassination, but the concepts for CnD and DB being so sustained-fight-oriented make me think ANet’s intentions are different. D/P is definitely the “camp stealth until I’m ready” set with BP + HS allowing for lower-risk stealths at a higher initiative cost, “requiring” the set to play more temp-heavy (or just spamming Shadow Shot because it’s so strong, that works too, though I don’t think that was the desired design intent for D/P). BP still has use post-burst, though, as it also offers the thief a bit of safety with the blinds, and if timed reasonably well, can be used for a getaway.

reikken: I want to highlight that and why there is only one viable thief build and the arguments that always come when it’s about buffing a trait “D/P would be OP with it” – because D/P already has got everything on its set.
So if that’s teh reason why nothing really can’t be buffed, then lets nerf D/P #3 so we other thieves are allowed to have some fun too – with the difference that D/P #3 means that D/P thieves aren’t really melee fighters. And melee often is a problem.

As a side note, I am glad people are starting to finally realize just how overpowered Shadow Shot is.

Jana and I rarely agree, but I think D/P’s strength lies almost solely with this ability. I’ve won a lot of fights playing D/P when D/P players talk trash about me losing a fight while playing D/D. I’ve never had to use anything but Shadow Shot for kills, not even stealth, when against these players.

Should Jana adapt to the present game or should the present game be adapted to Jana?

Good question? How about the game doesn’t adapt to only D/P as that’s the point.
Should rennlc read the thread they’re commenting on?!

Is rather see a buff to D/D. CnD need its damage back, same with Dancing Dagger. Death Blossom need an increased evade frame and/or better power scaling. By doing that they would increase its burst and probably bring it back.

spartan.9421:

and also jana… if you think D/P is OP please l2p or play something else

Learn to think and read.
Every other thief weaponset has got its utility from the traits which have been deleted or moved out of reach, D/P doesn’t need these traits as it has got everything on its set. The only thing that was crucial for D/P was initative, a problem that is non existent since we have 3 traitlines. The argument why we now can’t buff traits is “D/P would be OP with it” – which is true actually, so lets nerf D/P so that we can buff traits and make other weaponsets viable. Doesn’t mean I want D/P to be useless, I just don’t see why all other weapon sets have to be left in the gutter because of the utility D/P has got.
And sorry to burst your bubble but D/P is OP in comparison to every other thief set – not OP in comparison to the current “meta” right now – I’ll give you that.
(Btw: I have ~8 k hours on thief).

DeceiverX.8361:

As a side note, I am glad people are starting to finally realize just how overpowered Shadow Shot is.

Jana and I rarely agree, but I think D/P’s strength lies almost solely with this ability. I’ve won a lot of fights playing D/P when D/P players talk trash about me losing a fight while playing D/D. I’ve never had to use anything but Shadow Shot for kills, not even stealth, when against these players.

perhaps, but don’t nerf its ability as a spammable gap closer. shadow shot is my favorite skill in the entire game. and I play ele more than I play thief. It’s what defines d/p for me, more than stealth camping.

How about we quit feeding into the idea that we are such an under privlaged class that you have to degrade one weapon set in order to balance out making another one even playable. How about you just ask for D/D to be buffed and leave it at that? How about when thief becomes a good enough class to even rate a role in this game again then MAYBE you could have a case for asking something to be nerfed, but until then anyone who asks for a self nerf either is pretending to be a thief in order to do more damage or deserves a boot to the face.

Guess how often we have asked D/D to be buffed and CiS not to be moved to grandmaster? Now this way around. Since D/P is a low risk high reward set, compared to everything else. If nothing else can’t be viable because D/P might become OP, then lets nerf D/P so we can finally have useful traits.
I don’t mean to harm D/P thieves, I want us all to be viable. And I guess those who know me know that.

ETA: See, the reason why anet got away with all their nerfs was that there was still D/P thieves in pvp – because the weaponset itself has got so much utility (which is locked behind traits for everybody else) that it still worked no matter how bad anet screwed up. “Thief isn’t in a bad state, there’s still (D/P) thieves in pvp”.

Jana.6831:

Guess how often we have asked D/D to be buffed and CiS not to be moved to grandmaster? Now this way around. Since D/P is a low risk high reward set, compared to everything else. If nothing else can’t be viable because D/P might become OP, then lets nerf D/P so we can finally have useful traits.
I don’t mean to harm D/P thieves, I want us all to be viable. And I guess those who know me know that.

Another question how is an improvement to OH dagger,MH pistol,sword and dual skills a buff to d/p since moving CiS to master again will skyrocket its power?

You are asking them for a three(two if you are not seing the big picture) step process do you trust them that much?

Then ask them to change Black Powder (Pistol #5) to a Dark field instead of a Smoke field. Still gives the blind to people who enter, but prevents the BP → HS spam combo you see all the time, which is the thing that makes the set a little too powerful, at least IMO. Not to mention such a change will give P/P some love by allowing it to have some sustain through leeching health.

The only thing that probably could be toned down in D/P is shadowshot’s damage.

D/D just needs help.

Deathblossom needs to have the same directional targeting that warrior’s GS #3 (whirlwind attack) has. I wouldn’t remove the bleeds till we get a true condition weapon mainhand (axe?).

Dancing Dagger needs a projectile speed increase (33%), have a 1.0 multiplier, and not bounce or cripple. When it hits it marks the target and gives you a rollover skill that’s instant cast and 2 initiative. The rollover shadowsteps you to the marked target, cripples it for 3 seconds, and removes a condition (no damage). This would let it be used in conjunction with CnD.

Cloak and Dagger needs to blind and be 5 initiative.

I think the above changes help D/D with positioning and gap closing without making the set OP or needing to nerf D/P.

I like DB as it is actually. It was even better 2 years ago – from how to handle it. SB 3 catapulted me into a camp today although I was standing with my face towards it – that has been better as well in the past.
And btw it’s not just about D/D or the weapon utilities of D/P – the playstyle of D/P is also unique and different from all other sets. D/D and P/D (and staff) have to be close to their enemies, so they “need” SRej, they do better with blind – but D/D and P/D are unable to take both while D/P has got the blind twice on its set and also a port and doesn’t need the enemy to stealth.

that’s not true. i mean sure, can kite with d/p and then use shadow shot but then again if you are going to kite then you are not attacking so it shouldn’t matter what weapon set you play. when i use to play d/d i did kite, but i also used dancing dagger too.. at least i could hit at range.

todays age of gw2, I dont thik it is worth chancing with d/d, people are just too switched on and know what to do. 3 years of gw2 wisdom, relying on cnD and back stab just won;t cut it now. weapon sets with utialty (d/p staff) are the way to go and even they struggle. you know this i know and i know you hate me for saying this. I miss my warrior from gw1 and i know i can never go back to it.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

that’s not true. i mean sure, can kite with d/p and then use shadow shot but then again if you are going to kite then you are not attacking so it shouldn’t matter what weapon set you play. when i use to play d/d i did kite, but i also used dancing dagger too.. at least i could hit at range.

todays age of gw2, I dont thik it is worth chancing with d/d, people are just too switched on and know what to do. 3 years of gw2 wisdom, relying on cnD and back stab just won;t cut it now. weapon sets with utialty (d/p staff) are the way to go and even they struggle. you know this i know and i know you hate me for saying this. I miss my warrior from gw1 and i know i can never go back to it.

You can hop in and out of a fight because of shadow shot – that thing is a huge advantage.
Most people have never seen a D/D thief as they’re incredible rare since I started to play 2 years ago – because that weaponset was already dead back then – it got its final kick in June and the brainless meta launched with HoT doesn’t help.
I don’t hate you and I hope you know that, even though you kittened about my cookies yesterday :P
I knew that I wouldn’t get love for this thread and I wish I had worded it better right in the OP but I was in the middle of cooking dinner. And I wanted to get it into the forums today (as today anet wants to talk about upcoming class changes – and I hope they read it and either really nerf D/P so they will have to start from scratch or do things right this time around and revive the other sets).

spartan.9421:

and jana if D/D is truly dead why keep using it? thats just extremely stupid on your part

You really want to keep calling me stupid, right?
Let me tell you this: I’m a legend on 3 servers, even though I’m a stupid D/D thief – guess why.

Jana.6831:

“Is she completely insane” yeah, I am but hear me out:

D/P is by far the best weaponset we have: gap closer, stealth “on demand”, interrupt and blind all on it.
Me as a D/D thief : Gap closer = steal (frequency depends on trickery), blind: CiS (now in grandmaster), interrupt: sleight of hand, only availlable via trickery.
A D/P thief usually doesn’t stay melee, a D/D thief has to. So, we need reliable condi clear which has been nerfed in June.
D/P now does more damage than D/D since June as the combo of a D/P thief is usually smoke field, heartseeker, shadowshot (which does more damage than CnD which is hard to land and puts the thief into the AoE range of the enemy)

So, if all traits are balanced around D/P which is the set with the most utility thief has got (staff aside) – then lets nerf D/P so the other weapon sets have got a chance.

You ask for a buff to DD, you don’t call for a nerf on DP especially when it’s not overpowered. They can and should buff staff and DD as that’s their job but I just…

Did you really call for a self nerf?

Aidenwolf: What’s your point? Where did I ask for a buff? And what’s DD for you DareDevil or Dagger/Dagger?

Jana.6831:

Aidenwolf: What’s your point? Where did I ask for a buff? And what’s DD for you DareDevil or Dagger/Dagger?

DD is dagger dagger for me.

You didn’t ask for a buff, that was my point. Ask for dagger dagger (ffs that’s a pain to type out) to be buffed not DP to be nerfed. I only DD Condi in WvW and that’s dead so… DP is what I roll.

Commenting as a neutral 3rd party (mesmer here)

DP thieves are easily countered by 2 very basic game mechanics.

1. Dodge
2. Interrupt HS

Now that that’s out of the way I agree with promoting balance for the good of the game even if you call for your own class to be nerfed. Read my nerf Mesmer posts.

But DP is NOT in any way or shape OP. This thread is nothing but self serving self proclaimed elitists trying to enforce thier style of play on everyone else. You know this same exact type of thread popped up years ago and ultimately lead to BP nerf? One could even argue that these DD thieves inadvertently paved the path to the state in which thief now resides.

So if something is broken def call for balance…not this embarrassment of a thread though.

Try to get my point, Aidenwolf:
D/P is the only spec that still remains viable no matter what anet does – it was the only set still viable after June – thus there wasn’t any need to worry and balance what they did to the traits in June, right?! As there were still thieves around.
D/P is incredible powerful because of the utility it has got – all its utility is what every other thief has to trait for. These traits were moved out of reach for everybody – so D/P thieves remain.
Every sustain trait can be potentionally OP in the hands of a D/P thief as they don’t have to trait their utilities but can take all sustain and damage traits they like. They don’t even need sustain traits as they’re basically not melee fighters. (because of shadow shot)
And it feels as if thief is balanced around D/P and that is wrong in my opinion and the reason for this thread. If D/P thieves are OP with certain traits that would make other specs viable, then nerf their weaponset – mainly shadow shot as it does more damage than CnD – you can really make this smart and make every weaponset viable by creating certain traits for each sets that only make sense with each of the designated sets.
And that is what I’m asking for – don’t go “aaah thieves are fine – we have a few D/P thieves in pvp, so they’re good” but make the other specs viable again – they once were. And not all of it is because of the current meta (which is in need of a change as well).

Edit: Spelling

Azukas.1426:

Commenting as a neutral 3rd party (mesmer here)

DP thieves are easily countered by 2 very basic game mechanics.

1. Dodge
2. Interrupt HS

Now that that’s out of the way I agree with promoting balance for the good of the game even if you call for your own class to be nerfed. Read my nerf Mesmer posts.

But DP is NOT in any way or shape OP. This thread is nothing but self serving self proclaimed elitists trying to enforce thier style of play on everyone else. You know this same exact type of thread popped up years ago and ultimately lead to BP nerf? One could even argue that these DD thieves inadvertently paved the path to the state in which thief now resides.

So if something is broken def call for balance…not this embarrassment of a thread though.

Well, then try thief for a bit – in PvE is enough and try the different weaponsets. Read the tooltips and learn the different playstyles and find that D/P is OP in comparison of every other thief build (without DrD/staff) right now.
And please read what I wrote again to get my point and don’t accuse me of being an elitist.

spartan.9421:

and jana if D/D is truly dead why keep using it? thats just extremely stupid on your part

its called a bond, not being stupid. i have several bonds, 1 irl, my 12 year old sister (my dog) past away 4 years ago, i hurt sometimes now as i did when she passed away on that day. I know i went OTT on this subject but a bond is a bond, jana likes/loves d/d so much even though it is dead she still plays and hopes it comes back.

edit, pudding is better then coockies

Pretty sure a nerf to D/P would just result in more staff thieves. D/D and the other loadouts still being the immobile things that they are. Zerker/Marauder/Valkyrie thieves being balanced around D/P or not. If D/P got nerfed something else is going to rise to the top, and zerker/marauder thieves are just going to be balanced based on that instead (Like I said earlier, that thing would likely be staff. Assuming they do balance around one weaponset that is).

Also kitten Jana, 3x legend as D/D thief is nice. Like really nice. Did you get that through solo queue conquest? I’ve been somewhat trying to get to legend through solo queue conquest as a thief only. Started two weeks ago and kinda stuck around mid diamond atm (Been pretty busy so haven’t gotten to play the last few days >_>).

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

Commenting as a neutral 3rd party (mesmer here)

DP thieves are easily countered by 2 very basic game mechanics.

1. Dodge
2. Interrupt HS

Now that that’s out of the way I agree with promoting balance for the good of the game even if you call for your own class to be nerfed. Read my nerf Mesmer posts.

But DP is NOT in any way or shape OP. This thread is nothing but self serving self proclaimed elitists trying to enforce thier style of play on everyone else. You know this same exact type of thread popped up years ago and ultimately lead to BP nerf? One could even argue that these DD thieves inadvertently paved the path to the state in which thief now resides.

So if something is broken def call for balance…not this embarrassment of a thread though.

Well, then try thief for a bit – in PvE is enough and try the different weaponsets. Read the tooltips and learn the different playstyles and find that D/P is OP in comparison of every other thief build (without DrD/staff) right now.
And please read what I wrote again to get my point and don’t accuse me of being an elitist.

I don’t need to try thief b/c I’m a neutral 3rd party.

Tell you one thing tho. Ive never seen dp in meta pve or raids now.

Now here’s a history lesson for you. Since you WvW a lot which weaponset originally supplanted DD?

Azukas.1426:

I don’t need to try thief b/c I’m a neutral 3rd party.

Tell you one thing tho. Ive never seen dp in meta pve or raids now.

Now here’s a history lesson for you. Since you WvW a lot which weaponset originally supplanted DD?

Wow a history lesson for me from someone who doesn’t know the thief weapon sets – now I’m curious – tell me as it’s your perception anyway

Edit: Typo

spartan.9421:

Fat Disgrace.4275:

spartan.9421:

and jana if D/D is truly dead why keep using it? thats just extremely stupid on your part

its called a bond, not being stupid. i have several bonds, 1 irl, my 12 year old sister (my dog) past away 4 years ago, i hurt sometimes now as i did when she passed away on that day. I know i went OTT on this subject but a bond is a bond, jana likes/loves d/d so much even though it is dead she still plays and hopes it comes back.

edit, pudding is better then coockies

Having a bond with a DOG is alot different than refusing to using a different weaponset because it is your favorite. one is a living creature and the other is something you liked to use and only still use because you’re ignorant!

ok, I know it was a bad example. i was just trying to show another side of it

reikken.4961:

DeceiverX.8361:

As a side note, I am glad people are starting to finally realize just how overpowered Shadow Shot is.

Jana and I rarely agree, but I think D/P’s strength lies almost solely with this ability. I’ve won a lot of fights playing D/P when D/P players talk trash about me losing a fight while playing D/D. I’ve never had to use anything but Shadow Shot for kills, not even stealth, when against these players.

perhaps, but don’t nerf its ability as a spammable gap closer. shadow shot is my favorite skill in the entire game. and I play ele more than I play thief. It’s what defines d/p for me, more than stealth camping.

My personal problem with this skill is the low initiative cost for very high unblockable damage. The gap close is necessary utility for the weapon, and something I’d like to see similar on D/D. I get that, and I also get the blind (although I think it should be on a shorter duration. It’s the combination of low cost + huge damage + unblockable + blind + 900 range gap close (what steal used to be until not long ago) + no cooldown that makes me scratch my head and wonder why and how people claim the skill is reasonable as it is, or don’t understand why many areas of the base thief cannot be buffed. Shadow Shot, Vault, and Infil Arrow are pretty much holding the class back from getting improvements, because these high-impact and frankly spammable abilities are just overtuned, but used in competitive environments because not only are the rest of our options innately weak, but the nature of competitive play is playing what is usually the dirtiest and most overpowered builds and tactics employable. If people wanted fair fights in competitive scenes, the thief wouldn’t be used to traverse the map at lightning speed to cap an uncontested point while the enemy tries to catch up, and there wouldn’t be a focus on stacking invuln effects.

Whether or not ANet would buff the thief after nerfing SS as the OP implies is a whole other story and is really the concern. I think most people outside of FoTM scrubs would stand behind some nerfs to the cheese in their favorite classes if promised buffs overall to improve the viability of the class in general.

As far as dedication to D/D, I am in the same boat with Jana. We disagree about most things thief-related, but at the end of the day, this is the set I play and I refuse to play D/P. You’ll sooner see me playing another class (I am enjoying reaper a lot) or another game before I move primarily to D/P, because I think the set is boring and very cheesy in the way it currently can play and operate.

Jana.6831:

Should rennlc read the thread they’re commenting on?!

I did and for better or for worse I can’t ignore it as easily as I would have otherwise. There’s so much I want to understand about this that I currently don’t. Why can’t you switch to Staff or D/P? Why do you think these threads will contribute to your desired result? How is it that D/P is viewed so wildly different in your eyes than D/D? I feel as though I’m watching a form of purist operating without the holistic ideals necessary for other people to care immensely about helping see your goal become realized.

I feel for your ignorance and feel for my own as I presently lack the understandings necessary to get where you’re coming from and why. I suspect you’ll interpret the tone of my message as something more acidic than the tone of my actual thoughts and this will lead to further sub-optimal forms of disagreement. Alas, I’ve elected to ask my questions plainly and can now simply hope that if you’ll respond, you’ll respond more thoughtfully than impulsively. Either way, part of my attention is here and I’m keen to learn something from this.

spartan.9421:

Having a bond with a DOG is alot different than refusing to using a different weaponset because it is your favorite. one is a living creature and the other is something you liked to use and only still use because you’re ignorant!

Yeah man I know. People who get attached to things other than what you’re attached to are just plain stupid right?

Just like people who get attached to their pokemon. Just plain stupid. I released my level 100 Sceptile without a second thought when I was a kid just to prove that point.

…

I’ll miss you Lizard T-T

Jana.6831:

Azukas.1426:

I don’t need to try thief b/c I’m a neutral 3rd party.

Tell you one thing tho. Ive never seen dp in meta pve or raids now.

Now here’s a history lesson for you. Since you WvW a lot which weaponset originally supplanted DD?

Wow a history lesson for me from someone who doesn’t know the thief weapon sets – now I’m curious – tell me as it’s your perception anyway

Edit: Typo

SD

DP was later and for certain reasons

DeceiverX.8361:

As a side note, I am glad people are starting to finally realize just how overpowered Shadow Shot is.

Jana and I rarely agree, but I think D/P’s strength lies almost solely with this ability. I’ve won a lot of fights playing D/P when D/P players talk trash about me losing a fight while playing D/D. I’ve never had to use anything but Shadow Shot for kills, not even stealth, when against these players.

I’ve also been saying shadow shot is why d/p has been the strongest thief pvp set for a while. Its also worth noting that of all the non staff builds, d/p was arguably buffed the most with daredevil due to bound. However, I would hesitate to nerf anything so soon after seeing the recent tank meta.

d/d #5, C&D, currently does less damage than a thief dodge with bound. #4, dancing dagger, is hardly used. deathblossom, #3, is only good for condi. heartseeker, #2, only works vs very low targets. The issue is simply that d/d has 4 under tuned skills. C&D → backstab does meh damage in the face of safer alternatives. Equally, d/d burst damage potential cannot receive a major buff due to potential 1 shot cheese.

D/D could do with a small damage buff to C&D (maybe 15%), in addition to a small AOE blind. Then utility / survival buffs to #4, dancing dagger (1s superspeed and 1s protection for every target hit? Cripple is a lacklustre condi). Then a 30% damage buff to deathblossom to reward proper use in power builds (i.e. spam doesen’t give great damage, but its not negligable)

Azukas.1426:

SD

DP was later and for certain reasons

You do know that I’ve been around for 2 years, right?
P/D actually became the substitute for “D/D” (D/P was the “meta” before december ’13, not D/D). Then sizer brought S/D, then S/D was nerfed, then D/P became the meta once again.
Some history for you =)

ETA: Btw; we played what we liked not what was the most powerful – and before June that was still halfway possible although S/D had been nerfed too much. Still every fight would’ve been easier with D/P or P/D – but not everybody wants that – if I wanted easy fights I would’ve played cele ele

I remember when d/d was meta…. I miss blowing people up I also miss when we were hella survivable in wvw roaming with SA.

I miss that.

Jana.6831:

“Is she completely insane” yeah, I am but hear me out:

D/P is by far the best weaponset we have: gap closer, stealth “on demand”, interrupt and blind all on it.
Me as a D/D thief : Gap closer = steal (frequency depends on trickery), blind: CiS (now in grandmaster), interrupt: sleight of hand, only availlable via trickery.
A D/P thief usually doesn’t stay melee, a D/D thief has to. So, we need reliable condi clear which has been nerfed in June.
D/P now does more damage than D/D since June as the combo of a D/P thief is usually smoke field, heartseeker, shadowshot (which does more damage than CnD which is hard to land and puts the thief into the AoE range of the enemy)

So, if all traits are balanced around D/P which is the set with the most utility thief has got (staff aside) – then lets nerf D/P so the other weapon sets have got a chance.

D/P does not need nerf and it isnt op.

It’s just other weapon set compare to D/P just sucks. and needs buff.

and Anet just hate thieves, listen to those noobs thief op nerf qq and end up thief class become garbage compare to other prof

if we are talking trait line i say this game is balanced more around P/D then anything else but i do not agree with the topic of nerfing D/P for no other reason then. i do not like how traits line up with it ^^.

An D/P only became mainstream because of blind mech change anet made. if that blind mech change was never done D/P would still be garbage teir.