Guild Wars 2

I’m hoping this will be one of those threads were the devs can get a feel for how the thief community feels, if this gets out of hand in any sort of trolling/flaming way, devs lock this thread with the quicknesssss, if you have any opinion on your class, feel free to chime in. I personally could justify a small nerf to backstab, but ONLY if it comes along with some reworking/mild buff’s to some of our other weapon sets, things like looking at the p/p set of skills or possibly even giving us a flanking strike that actually works [i think something along the lines of ranger’s version of fs, just without poison and instead with evasion of some other mild benefit] I also agree with with the notion that most people tend to stick close to backstab builds, just because to be honest half of our weapon skills aren’t exactly well thought out, im no expert on what weapon sets should be doing what, but when i rock p/p and the only skill i usually use is unload and the stealth attack, somethings a bit off, same goes with sword, i tried going s/d but theres no reason for it…flanking strike its broken, if you use sword its either s/p or no sword it seems like to me.

TL;DR
accept the fact that our class weapon sets arent exactly balanced, if you could barter with the dev’s, what would you like to see a lil love for in exchange for giving up some op backstab damage?
[I personally would love to see dual swords, i know it probably wont ever happen, so maybeh a dual skill for sword/dagger that was actually useful/awesome]

The damage of backstab is fine.I usualy hit 5k-6k on most targets.Thats OP to you? Take a look at warriors then.
I agree on flanking strike tho.The skill is nice but only for evade and boon removal and thats not worth the initiative.

NightyNight.1823:

The damage of backstab is fine.I usualy hit 5k-6k on most targets.Thats OP to you? Take a look at warriors then.
I agree on flanking strike tho.The skill is nice but only for evade and boon removal and thats not worth the initiative.

What about warriors? Do tell, I am very interested.

NightyNight.1823:

The damage of backstab is fine.I usualy hit 5k-6k on most targets.Thats OP to you? Take a look at warriors then.
I agree on flanking strike tho.The skill is nice but only for evade and boon removal and thats not worth the initiative.

5-6k noncrit vs. a bunker guardian with 3500 armor maybe

You can range for over 6k noncrits with rifle alone on warrior. .-.

I feel like weapons are lacking versatility. I prefer condition build as it’s simply the most fun to me but I’m generally limited to leaping all over the place with D/D or spamming stealth sneak attack with pistol. I think we simply need more weapons/off hands and maybe a sword remake. I feel like Ranger with sword is how Thief should of been, except Serpent strike is pretty buggy if not fixed yet.

@VictorTroska.3725

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg

Also 10-12k Eviscerates

Problem?

My, my… lets not forget 100b is PBAoE also..

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Fritz.5026:

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.

Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.

Blacksarevok.8104:

Fritz.5026:

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.

Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.

you are also looking at things in a vacuum.

outside of 100b greatsword is a pretty awful weapon. the adrenaline attack is so awful most people just ignore it completely, and bladetrail and whirling attack are mediocre at best. rush is pretty good, but it has a 20 second cooldown.

i know the only reason i would ever use GS is 100b, and honestly i would rather use a different weapon because its really boring only having 1 good attack on your bar to use.

i couldnt really care less if they nerfed 100b.

also with the auto level feature in the game it doesnt really bother me that much that thieves are allowed to be in a different class than the rest of the game. i can make a new thief and join the bandwagon in minutes.

i just get tired of seeing ridiculous arguements from the thief community like the rest of the world are mouthbreathers.

i can teleport, stealth, have the highest burst damage, highest condition damage, and easiest way to escape battle when things are not going my way. my class embodies low risk and high reward.

but herr derr 100b is so much similar!! /drooling

Fritz.5026:

Blacksarevok.8104:

Fritz.5026:

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.

Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.

you are also looking at things in a vacuum.

outside of 100b greatsword is a pretty awful weapon. the adrenaline attack is so awful most people just ignore it completely, and bladetrail and whirling attack are mediocre at best. rush is pretty good, but it has a 20 second cooldown.

i know the only reason i would ever use GS is 100b, and honestly i would rather use a different weapon because its really boring only having 1 good attack on your bar to use.

i couldnt really care less if they nerfed 100b.

also with the auto level feature in the game it doesnt really bother me that much that thieves are allowed to be in a different class than the rest of the game. i can make a new thief and join the bandwagon in minutes.

i just get tired of seeing ridiculous arguements from the thief community like the rest of the world are mouthbreathers.

i can teleport, stealth, have the highest burst damage, highest condition damage, and easiest way to escape battle when things are not going my way. my class embodies low risk and high reward.

but herr derr 100b is so much similar!! /drooling

People only went S/P because of PW. PW got nerfed.

If what you said is true, and people only go GS for 100b, then why hasn’t 100b been nerfed yet? I’m not trying to defend Backstab so much as I’m trying to figure out why Warriors are being left untouched.

I agree that Backstab needs to be looked at, but Thieves have already been nerfed numerous timeswhile simultaneously receiving no buffs to broken kits and abilities (P/P and Flanking Strike first come to mind, as well as Sword/Pistol in it’s current state). On top of the fact that, as I said before, Warriors are allowed to run around and do the same things S/P pre-nerf without a peep out of anyone.

Every patch Thieves get forced into playing a gimmick spec not because we want to, but because we have to.

QFT, we’re forced into gimmick builds because we have no other options…anet keeps taking away any of our decent toys and not giving us anything in return. Backstab is pretty much the last thing thieves have to be competitive.

Blade trail mediocre?Wheres that screen whit 17k or more blade trail?OHHH and its range.Eviscerate takes 12k and it doesn’t take all the positioning and buffing and utilities BackStab requires.I don’t think I managed to hit more than 8k BS since they nerfed Assasin’s Signet in sPvP .Yet I don’t play that much BS thief.Its terrible and you ,apperanly more.
The problem is not whit BS.In fact ,I don’t even see the problem at all.You have no arguments what so ever but you come here and cry for nerfs.Most of you never even played a thief.All I’ve seen on forum about thieves being OP is a screen of a guy that gets hit 8k .And a video of some kitten ranger getting killed by 5k backstabs.When people were complainig about 25k BS I was like ..ok I guess thats too much.That was legitimate .I didn’t said a word then.But seriously now?

Ohh I missed that part..
Highest Damage burst?Are you insane? Did you see a warrior whit quickness doing his combo?Thief is not even close to highest damage burst of all the classes.Maybe the quickest burst but thats ALL they have .They have no defences what so ever .They only make up whit mobility and stealth.
And highest Condition Damage? wow..you know nothing about thieves and proffesions in general to claim such a thing.

ilJumperMT.4871:

@VictorTroska.3725

http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg

Also 10-12k Eviscerates

Problem?

Yup, you can see 100B incoming, you can see warrior switch to Axe+Shield to Eviscerate. You cant see 10k Backstab.

Besides, glass cannon warrior is actually glass cannon, he dies fast. Thief with stealth can run glass cannon and have top survivability. So once again, I am asking. What about warriors?

You can’t see a thief backstab? All of the ways that a thief can stealth are very visible. All you need to do is keep him from getting at your back for 3-4 seconds. Smack him with one CC when he’s nearing you, and the thief’ll be toast.

Rottaran Owain.6789:

You can’t see a thief backstab? All of the ways that a thief can stealth are very visible. All you need to do is keep him from getting at your back for 3-4 seconds. Smack him with one CC when he’s nearing you, and the thief’ll be toast.

Yes, one CC that he will get away. Then restealth and repeat, and he can do that again, and again, and again, and hey, if hes in trouble. Bow and “blink” away, “blink” back, go invisible and repeat, and repeat. Please I dont want to teach thief players how to kill warrior because I think that is the most easiest thing to do, even necros live longer.

Take MUG away, it will take about 25-33% dmg off of backstab combo and give something instead.

Do you intend to hold you ground alone against any opponent for infinite amount of time? Not in this game.
Hey. I dont use backstab but i need mug.

As if the thieves are the only ones that have movement skills and close gaps.They have shadow step you have swiftness and more.
I love the number you pulled for the backstab and I specialy love when you say you can’t see it.And you can’t seee thief why exacly?he needs to touch-close to get invisible.You see him perfecly fine and whats about to happen.
Thief’s strategy is to hit and run.Your strategy is to presure your opponent.Don’t play your class as if you were thief and expect to be better at it .

NightyNight.1823:

I love the number you pulled for the backstab…

You havent seen or experienced 10k backstabs? Are you even playing thief? I am not going to post evidence of 10k or higher backstabs because every thief knows it can be done in sPvP and if someone disagrees then he will be laughed at. Just go youtube and add this “Insane thief damage.” and learn.

I’ve experienced over 10k backstab in WvW by a thief and i’m a thief. I can understand people going for backstab and hs they’re easy and do high damage. Too easy for me and lacking utility, however it is correct that the options appear quite limited; Pistol Whip is pretty hard to pull off and the animation root is counter intuitive to the classes mechanics. None the less my quest for non D/D play continues. I wouldn’t be upset with any backstab nerf,a s I generally don’t use it. However my damage is reduced quite noticably into the lesser and much slower category. So are thieves feeling they’re being pushed into using that strategy?

I say the same thing to all the thief haters (or nerf cryers), go play a thief in sPvP and see just how amazing(ly crap) stealth is in a BS build (3 seconds where you can still be hit with AoE). Go see just how amazing you are at team fights after killing one person with the BS combo (if you are lucky you’ll have 9 initiative and ~70% health due to incidental AoE). Go see just how effective(ly terrible) builds other than BS are due to the utilities and weapon skills we get (but don’t use because they are terrible).

Essentially, bury your ego and prejudice and go play a thief for a while, if you do well great but remember… your experience isn’t everyone’s experience.

Also… go kitten a kitten you kittening kitten kittener. Couldn’t understand that? Yeah, that’s why word replacement filters don’t work, better off just removing the words from the post ANet.

Are you guys serious? Flanking Strike is amazing, it litteraly melts down Guardians… But, you know, every thief now is enjoying the opness of BS and has no time to try out other weapon sets.

steal just needs a 1/2 cast time and (I think?) that will stop the CnD-steal precast and everyone can be happy – targets get a little more time to CC or do something to avoid the big burst. as i understand it most QQ is because you never see it coming. give a bit of panic button time and problem solved.

Maybe merge with
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Things-that-could-use-a-buff

Tell me about it. Thief is the most nerfed class since release and if the trend continues I’ll feel forced to roll a warrior. I’m getting tired of all the nerf this and nerf that, OP this and OP that.
In every MMO thief or rogue class have high spike damage with a backstab attack, and a rather squishy defense. Hell, in Lineage 2 the thief type class could 1-hit erase your TP with lethal blow and then kill you in seconds with another and there was the usual nerf cryers who complained but it wasn’t really nerfed in the end.

Yeah, most of the thief problems are mechanical, not mathematical.
Fix the rendering issue, make steal queue like all other abilities so you can’t CnD THEN steal.

Everything else is a l2p issue.

Fritz.5026:

Blacksarevok.8104:

Fritz.5026:

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.

Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.

you are also looking at things in a vacuum.

outside of 100b greatsword is a pretty awful weapon. the adrenaline attack is so awful most people just ignore it completely, and bladetrail and whirling attack are mediocre at best. rush is pretty good, but it has a 20 second cooldown.

i know the only reason i would ever use GS is 100b, and honestly i would rather use a different weapon because its really boring only having 1 good attack on your bar to use.

i couldnt really care less if they nerfed 100b.

also with the auto level feature in the game it doesnt really bother me that much that thieves are allowed to be in a different class than the rest of the game. i can make a new thief and join the bandwagon in minutes.

i just get tired of seeing ridiculous arguements from the thief community like the rest of the world are mouthbreathers.

i can teleport, stealth, have the highest burst damage, highest condition damage, and easiest way to escape battle when things are not going my way. my class embodies low risk and high reward.

but herr derr 100b is so much similar!! /drooling

Bladetrail is medicore??

L2P Warrior, AGAIN

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

ilJumperMT.4871:

Fritz.5026:

Blacksarevok.8104:

Fritz.5026:

dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.

…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!

Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.

Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.

you are also looking at things in a vacuum.

outside of 100b greatsword is a pretty awful weapon. the adrenaline attack is so awful most people just ignore it completely, and bladetrail and whirling attack are mediocre at best. rush is pretty good, but it has a 20 second cooldown.

i know the only reason i would ever use GS is 100b, and honestly i would rather use a different weapon because its really boring only having 1 good attack on your bar to use.

i couldnt really care less if they nerfed 100b.

also with the auto level feature in the game it doesnt really bother me that much that thieves are allowed to be in a different class than the rest of the game. i can make a new thief and join the bandwagon in minutes.

i just get tired of seeing ridiculous arguements from the thief community like the rest of the world are mouthbreathers.

i can teleport, stealth, have the highest burst damage, highest condition damage, and easiest way to escape battle when things are not going my way. my class embodies low risk and high reward.

but herr derr 100b is so much similar!! /drooling

Bladetrail is medicore??

L2P Warrior, AGAIN

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg

See how many people and pets Bladetrail hit? Its a bug, that is already known and everyone hope ANet will fix it soon. It litterally allows warrior oneshot minion master necro. Without that bug Bladetrail is medicore damage.

i dont own a warrior but only difference between a thief and a warrior is that you can dodge warriors attack and you cant dodge bs or hs . wariors attack is a series of attacks but thiefs one attack is 6k or 10k. and it can be done many times in a minute, if warrior fails thats the end of attack for long time

Ragnarox.9601:

i dont own a warrior but only difference between a thief and a warrior is that you can dodge warriors attack and you cant dodge bs or hs . wariors attack is a series of attacks but thiefs one attack is 6k or 10k. and it can be done many times in a minute, if warrior fails thats the end of attack for long time

HS can’t be dodged? Leave the forum please… half the time you don’t even need to dodge roll out of a heartseeker. Just a side step will do. Get’s worse with haste. And backstab can’t be dodged? Kissing range strike which the Thief will try hard to land on your back? Hmm….

Just because you can’t see someone trying to land backstab doesn’t mean it cannot be dodged. Most of the time, if they use steal, just dodge roll and they won’t be able to catch you back up in time for BS.

Also, if they are doing steal-cnd-backstab, THEY ARE VISIBLE FROM THE START OF THE ROTATION. It’s your own fault for not seeing them.

Katsumoto.9452:

HS can’t be dodged? Leave the forum please… half the time you don’t even need to dodge roll out of a heartseeker. Just a side step will do. Get’s worse with haste. And backstab can’t be dodged? Kissing range strike which the Thief will try hard to land on your back? Hmm….

Just because you can’t see someone trying to land backstab doesn’t mean it cannot be dodged. Most of the time, if they use steal, just dodge roll and they won’t be able to catch you back up in time for BS.

Also, if they are doing steal-cnd-backstab, THEY ARE VISIBLE FROM THE START OF THE ROTATION. It’s your own fault for not seeing them.

how much initiative does thief have? 9? you miss 2 hs because of my 2 dodge…what about all 7 other that deal 3-4k dmg plus bs 4-10k? you are missing the point. No class should have 4k instant attack that can be doable in a row, hs should have a some kind of cd 1 sec. or nerf hs to do 1.5k max dmg. seeing a class that every weapon skill doing 4k dmg plus bs 6-10k makes me roll a thief like in spvp people roll.

Ragnarox.9601:

Katsumoto.9452:

HS can’t be dodged? Leave the forum please… half the time you don’t even need to dodge roll out of a heartseeker. Just a side step will do. Get’s worse with haste. And backstab can’t be dodged? Kissing range strike which the Thief will try hard to land on your back? Hmm….

Just because you can’t see someone trying to land backstab doesn’t mean it cannot be dodged. Most of the time, if they use steal, just dodge roll and they won’t be able to catch you back up in time for BS.

Also, if they are doing steal-cnd-backstab, THEY ARE VISIBLE FROM THE START OF THE ROTATION. It’s your own fault for not seeing them.

how much initiative does thief have? 9? you miss 2 hs because of my 2 dodge…what about all 7 other that deal 3-4k dmg plus bs 4-10k? you are missing the point. No class should have 4k instant attack that can be doable in a row, hs should have a some kind of cd 1 sec. or nerf hs to do 1.5k max dmg. seeing a class that every weapon skill doing 4k dmg plus bs 6-10k makes me roll a thief like in spvp people roll.

Wait 7 heartseekers and backstab now? No, perhaps not…

Backstab takes up half an initiative bar on its own. And no you tried to base a lot of your point on a Thief having undodgeable attacks, I did not miss the point at all.

Every class aside Necro can deal huge damage. Most classes can deal far better sustained damage than the Thief. A couple of classes can out burst a Thief (Engineer, Warrior).

This kind of Thief you all moan about, can be killing in a second. If a warrior stuns you and 100b’s you, you are dead long before you can do much about it. You either have shadow step utility available and use it super fast, or that is it. 11k hp and 900 toughness really doesn’t go a long way

I made an enormous post with pretty much every classes counter to backstab and heartseeker and the community basically ignored it. The best someone could come up with was ‘omg but rendering issue so yeah thief should be nerfed’. Because rendering issue is a class imbalance right? No…

Wait, let me get this straight.
You come to the Suggestions Forum to:

• say you accept a nerf to Backstab if other weapon sets get a buff.
  Essentially you’re saying you’d stop playing dagger.
• complain about skills that don’t work the way you want them to.

Where’s the suggestion?

Go make this thread in the Thief forum, and for the love of kitten stop sinking the suggestions from the suggestions forum with these complaint threads.