Guild Wars 2

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

One Word: Poison.
That is all.
If you really have played a warrior at all, you would know how much this condition alone wrecks us, no other class has as much fear as we do from it.

Dude, how about you try speccing for Quick Breathing, grab a Warhorn and watch as all poison ever turns into Regeneration?

I agree, signets should be interesting. Adrenaline is also our class feature. We have so many traits that make us gain extra strikes, but they are useless because they are not needed. Making the signet heal off getting strikes would immediately make those traits worth it.

They’re not “needed” because most people use Greatsword, which happens to have a crappy burst skill. Rework the burst skill on Greatsword and you’ll instantly have everyone spamming bursts like they were all a bunch of happy axe mainhand Warriors.

Now that is one condition wouldn’t mind having on warrior for sword weapon.

Well that’s one way to have Final Thrust make some sense.

When you use the Warhorn, it converts the conditions first before removing the movement speed ones. So if you have cripple, it will turn that into swiftness before removing anything. Its dumb…

Olba.5376:

Daecollo.9578:

One Word: Poison.
That is all.
If you really have played a warrior at all, you would know how much this condition alone wrecks us, no other class has as much fear as we do from it.

Dude, how about you try speccing for Quick Breathing, grab a Warhorn and watch as all poison ever turns into Regeneration?

I understand where are you coming from having the quick breathing trait, but in actual combat when those are on skills are on cool down. Conditions are applied pretty quick and that poison is now reducing the player’s regeneration boon.

Olba.5376:

.

Now that is one condition wouldn’t mind having on warrior for sword weapon.

Well that’s one way to have Final Thrust make some sense.

I was thinking more of option 3 hamstring so the duration can last longer, but that can work too if it happens.

So am I the only warrior who thinks Adrenal Healing is situational? We don’t just straight up get that 360 hp/s; we have to work up to it and hang onto our adrenaline to have any use for it. You have to either spec for adrenaline management, or not use your burst skill at all. Everyone seems to just be throwing it into equations like “WELL IF YOU HAVE ADRENAL HEALING YOU GET 120 MORE HP/S!” I wish the trait just magically worked like that. Adrenaline management in SPvP is a nightmare.

Daecollo.9578:

When people have balance in mind, they just don’t understand that the Warrior itself is a weak class mostly because it has no passive condition removal and no access to protection. Classes that have it ALWAYS overlook how good it is. You know how you usually remove things like poison/bleeding? We have to DEAL with it, that is a -33% to healing, its huge!

I play all professions. Warrior happens to be my 2nd main. I disagree that warrior is weak. Most people play pve and/or WvWvW. Top level tournament pvp shouldn’t be the guideline for skill balancing, because after all it is one very narrow game mode: conquest.

Warrior is by far one of the best pve professions and probably the easiest profession to begin with. Lots of dps, very easy mechanisms and one two overpowered weapons: Greatsword and spear.

Warrior can remove a lot of conditions e.g. using mending + signet of stamina + shake it off. Or even more using the shout heal build with FGJ, OMM and SIO shouts + 6x superior soldier runes. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Soldier

Signet of rage has very low cooldown compared to most other elite skills in the game, 48 s with signet mastery trait. If you use 6xsuperior Lyssa runes, you can cleanse off all conditions everytime you activate the elite.

Then you have more condition removal than most profession can even dream off! I have been doing that already for a long long time and soloing group events and champion bosses at some of the hardest pve areas e.g. Orr. Don’t tell me that warrior is weak…

For example let’s compare warrior with engineer, my 2nd main:
Engineer has very little condition removal if you don’t take Cleaning Formula 409 master level trait:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Cleaning_Formula_409

So unless an engineer takes that 20 point trait and a lot of elixir skills, she has almost no condition removal whatsoever. Medkit drop antidote removes just one condition if you walk over that potion. But if you are immobilized, there is no way to cure the condition. How nice!
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Drop_Antidote

Healing signet is already the best passive heal in the game. Its passive effect should not be increased much, but like I wrote in my earlier suggestion it should scale better with healing power and its active effect should be a bit better. No drastic changes, but small adjustments.

Warrior is extremely common in pve and WvWvW, clearly part of the meta. Not weak. I can guess that if there would be more really good warrior pvp players a team consisting mostly of warriors could actually wreck amazing havoc in pvp as well. I still feel warrior is not that super weak in pvp as many people falsely claim, it is just that warrior doesn’t allow the player to make much mistakes in pvp (e.g. mesmer allows much higher room for mistakes). I am thinking something like sword/warhorn + hammer immobilize lock survivability build which has tons of condition removal + healing besides the amazing amount of CC. But some top tpvp player can probably refute my idea.

2 Make it scale better with healing power. Ok, now I am “forced” into a gear set I don’t like, what if I want to bunker or something else? What if I want to run berserkers? What if I want to run Sentinels or Soldier gear? No, I am immediately forced to wear healing power gear. Also, why don’t the other two classes with healing signets need to be forced to take healing gear to make there heal good?!

Verdict: To restricting, none of the other signets have this kind of restriction, and scale better with healing already the fact they proc more.

Like the Developer said himself, the Passive needs to be boosted dramatically like the necromancers minion was, 80% Twice probably.

ugh here we go again. Where do you people come from?

Who the hell cares about PvE? PvE is easy if your having trouble in PvE on any class in this game then you really should take a step back and reassess why you play games in the first place.

Signet of rage is even worse now because of the boon stealing thieves got.

Shout builds have been garbage since release.

Engineers are in a much better place than warriors even when it comes to condition removal.

The only reason you see warriors in PvE is because it’s a dumb dumb class. It doesn’t do anything other than damage very well and it fails at that most of the time because the skills to land that damage are terrible. Just because you see some worthless hammer warriors in wvw zerging doesn’t mean the class has any part in the meta.

Let me set you straight playing a hammer warrior is like playing a staff elementalist in melee combat but instead of having lightning field on demand and being range it’s tied to a horrible adrenaline gain system and only has a bunny hop leap attached to it.

Ohh btw if Olba is the ranger play tester for Arenanet would Deniara be the engineer playtester?

If you guys are I would just like to say you’re really bad at playtesting.

Zayle.7253:

So am I the only warrior who thinks Adrenal Healing is situational?

For those experience with Adrenal Health we aware that it’s very situational. The other posters who keep posting with false theories do not know what they are talking about like Deniara Devious post claiming Healing Signet passive heal is the best heal in game, but on what field? Pve?

Daecollo.9578:

2 Make it scale better with healing power. Ok, now I am “forced” into a gear set I don’t like, what if I want to bunker or something else? What if I want to run berserkers? What if I want to run Sentinels or Soldier gear? No, I am immediately forced to wear healing power gear. Also, why don’t the other two classes with healing signets need to be forced to take healing gear to make there heal good?!

Verdict: To restricting, none of the other signets have this kind of restriction, and scale better with healing already the fact they proc more.

Like the Developer said himself, the Passive needs to be boosted dramatically like the necromancers minion was, 80% Twice probably.

Perfect example not many players such as Daecollo won’t play a bunker/ healing because it will bore them. So if they buff Healing Signet regen to give warriors more survivability on the battlefield then that’s great which is also great for bunkers. Of course we can counter conditions if the warriors is geared towards that, but that only limits their potential on the battlefield. It may look good in a 1 vs 1 fight depending on the profession, but having more enemies less likely condition removal will save the profession.

AlBundy.7851:

Ohh btw if Olba is the ranger play tester for Arenanet would Deniara be the engineer playtester?

If you guys are I would just like to say you’re really bad at playtesting.

I guess bad, but I’ll just rephrase as haven’t been exposed to certain warrior builds much and mostly imagining things what they think will happen.

FenGuild.1097:

Of course we can counter conditions if the warriors is geared towards that, but that only limits their potential on the battlefield. It may look good in a 1 vs 1 fight depending on the profession, but having more enemies less likely condition removal will save the profession.

I’d get the conclusion people expected conditions not to be capable of accomplishing anything, much less conditions from a crowd of opposing players…funny that.

Leo G.4501:

FenGuild.1097:

Of course we can counter conditions if the warriors is geared towards that, but that only limits their potential on the battlefield. It may look good in a 1 vs 1 fight depending on the profession, but having more enemies less likely condition removal will save the profession.

I’d get the conclusion people expected conditions not to be capable of accomplishing anything, much less conditions from a crowd of opposing players…funny that.

It’s not about overestimating it’s performance, but noticing the warrior player is limiting themselves against other encounters. Conditions are reapplied very quickly and stacks up depending on your opponent profession.

FenGuild.1097:

Leo G.4501:

FenGuild.1097:

Of course we can counter conditions if the warriors is geared towards that, but that only limits their potential on the battlefield. It may look good in a 1 vs 1 fight depending on the profession, but having more enemies less likely condition removal will save the profession.

I’d get the conclusion people expected conditions not to be capable of accomplishing anything, much less conditions from a crowd of opposing players…funny that.

It’s not about overestimating it’s performance, but noticing the warrior player is limiting themselves against other encounters. Conditions are reapplied very quickly and stacks up depending on your opponent profession.

….so the answer is to regen faster? Nullify conditions more easily?

If you want my answer, I think warrior needs abilities to apply pressure. I can do it with a longbow but burning doesn’t last super long and the bleeding/immobilize is almost single target.

AlBundy.7851:

Ohh btw if Olba is the ranger play tester for Arenanet would Deniara be the engineer playtester?

If you guys are I would just like to say you’re really bad at playtesting.

Where did you get that idea? Have I mentioned Rangers at some point?

Why don’t they make it scale with Vitality on the passive, and Healing Power on the Active. Vit is a rather underrated stat on the warrior since they have so much base health.

Not, it only counts Vitality, not your max health. This helps people who use Soldiers a bit more.

maybe it was the other guy a couple pages have been ranger comparison. In the end its just weird I don’t understand why you guys are here arguing the points you are arguing it doesn’t make sense to me.

Warriors need a major rework to be able to stay in the fight which people have been echoing for the past 8 months through the term sustain. Our weapon sets need boons or better conditions or better secondary effects placed on them along with our utilities to be brought up to par of other classes and I’m not even mentioning our clusterphhhuck of traitlines yet.

And yet here you are arguing against changes to healing signet lol. It’s just beyond me I’m just trying to find a reason behind why you’re here and saying what you’re saying at this point

AlBundy.7851:

maybe it was the other guy a couple pages have been ranger comparison. In the end its just weird I don’t understand why you guys are here arguing the points you are arguing it doesn’t make sense to me.

…

And yet here you are arguing against changes to healing signet lol. It’s just beyond me I’m just trying to find a reason behind why you’re here and saying what you’re saying at this point

To clarify, it was the OP who was making the Ranger comparison to begin with.

In the end, you’re attempting to argue with people who are simply correcting the OP and trying to keep the discussion about Warrior and their abilities, not Ranger and theirs or Necromancer and theirs.

Kiroshima.8497:

Why don’t they make it scale with Vitality on the passive, and Healing Power on the Active. Vit is a rather underrated stat on the warrior since they have so much base health.

Not, it only counts Vitality, not your max health. This helps people who use Soldiers a bit more.

I actually made the same suggestion around here:

Leo G.4501:

I say, buff how Healing sig scales with healing power, make it scale with toughness or vitality so it can’t be harmed by poison effects, put a trait in one of the defensive lines to make it more powerful, but don’t just buff it to make the class harder to kill as a base. Make bunker Warrior a viable build instead.

That could also be an indirect buff if it scaled with something else, you might be able to also make it unaffected by -heal in poison if you go by the concept it’s not healing you but your natural vitality. The active could still be affected by heal though.

I don’t think you’re correcting him he’s proven you wrong multiple times during the course of the past few days.

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t think you’re correcting him he’s proven you wrong multiple times during the course of the past few days.

What has he proven?

Do I have to go back through the thread and pull it all out? Can’t you just go away or troll another sub forum at this point? I mean another clone of you will probably appear anyways. Maybe your the same guy just on another account. Maybe you just get really excited in seeing warriors do poorly in spvp or get upset at warrior damage in PvE.

AlBundy.7851:

Signet of rage is even worse now because of the boon stealing thieves got.

Shout builds have been garbage since release.

Engineers are in a much better place than warriors even when it comes to condition removal.

…
Just because you see some worthless hammer warriors in wvw zerging doesn’t mean the class has any part in the meta.

Shout builds are not garbage. Prove your point by analyzing them in a grown up way? E.g. show some maths and calculations.

Engineer do NOT have any other viable ways to remove multiple conditions except overcharge the healing turret (removes 2 conditions after a delay, wow… as much as warrior’s mending). Or use the cleaning formula 409 and have a lot of elixir skills in the skill bar. Warriors have signet of stamina, which cleanses ALL the conditions. Shake it off has shorter cooldown than any engineer elixir skill, thus allowing the warrior to remove conditions more often not only from himself, but also from allies. Plus it is a also a stun break. With 6x soldier runes shake it off removes 2 conditions per use and other shouts remove 1 condition/shout.

Hammer warriors are the meta in EU top tier melee trains. Telling that hammer warrior sucks in WvWvW. LOL you must have never been hit by those well synced knockdown, cripple + immobilize lock front lines. That is why stability is the most important boon in the game. And removing stability at the right moment from the enemy zerg is uttermost crucial. A lot of the best WvWvW commanders play hammer warrior. You must go to tell them that warrior sucks in WvWvW. I think guys like Moorta could teach you a lesson. ;-)

For the others: I do NOT work for Arenanet. I am just a PuG commander. And I am very well aware how many engineer traits are broken at the moment or have been broken since the game was released (yes, many of those traits do nothing, I repeat absolutely nothing, at the moment).

Daecollo.9578:

2 Make it scale better with healing power. Ok, now I am “forced” into a gear set I don’t like, what if I want to bunker or something else? What if I want to run berserkers? What if I want to run Sentinels or Soldier gear? No, I am immediately forced to wear healing power gear. Also, why don’t the other two classes with healing signets need to be forced to take healing gear to make there heal good?!

Verdict: To restricting, none of the other signets have this kind of restriction, and scale better with healing already the fact they proc more.

Like the Developer said himself, the Passive needs to be boosted dramatically like the necromancers minion was, 80% Twice probably.

If you want a large amount of hp/sec, then you need to invest in it. Look at what Rangers have to do to get 500 hp/sec. Quite a bit.

You aren’t supposed to be able to have everything.

I honestly think the Warrior community, when it comes to talking about sustainability, is in the same boat as the Ranger community when it comes to pet control, burst, etc. … it’s a learn to play issue. There have been multiple sustain builds for warriors since the BWEs.

What are you all on about. I am a warrior main and even I must admit that single class that needs fixes/balancing the LEAST at this moment is the warrior.

In PvE, they are the best DPS class available bar none.

In WvW, like it or not the current meta is medium to large zergs. In this setting the warrior again is among the better classes.

In PvP yes they need some work but not as much as you might think. They have high DPS which means the only way to counter them is to not get hit by them. I agree getting kited is frustrating however at what expense do we want balance in PvP? Do we want more mobility but less damage, I dont think I do.

As to the actual topic of this thread healing sig is far from useless.
It just needs traits and healing power to help it along. The traits for signets and healing power are not very popular among warriors at this time.

And who says every skills should be good for every build?

As an engineer, I feel much better off with antidote, Elixir C and throw Elixir C than I feel on my warrior with Signet of Stamina and Signet of Rage

Also because if I want the double condition cleanse I am forced into a not-so-good rune set (2-pieces bonus mostly is not needed, same goes for the 4-pieces one) to have at least 2 condition removers. AND one of those is already needed as one of the only sources of swiftness and/or fury (I’d rather not think that the class that was made to use the widest arrange of weapons is forced into using horn as an offhand).
And two big condition removals on a long cooldown are often much less useful than more smaller condition removals on a shorter cooldowns. Have you ever played against any condition engi? I actually don’t care if they cleanse all my conditions twice. I can reapply all of them in no time.

AND spvp is a part of the game. I wouldn’t mind if someone thinks about it while balancing. In PvP there are no zergs —-→ you can’t say warriors heal a lot because you won’t be healing 30+ people. Max you and other 2 players. Max.

You could try to go and bunker/support/wear down people with something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAseTncO08YyDSBxEhABVQDPFSClC7AOSPID0INA-TsAg2CpIySllLLTWyssZN6Y1xUEA

Problem is, you’ll still do nothing on your own. And that’s another problem with warriors, and pretty big, if someone wants to learn how to play in tournaments pugs.

Deniara Devious.3948:

AlBundy.7851:

Signet of rage is even worse now because of the boon stealing thieves got.

Shout builds have been garbage since release.

Engineers are in a much better place than warriors even when it comes to condition removal.

…
Just because you see some worthless hammer warriors in wvw zerging doesn’t mean the class has any part in the meta.

Shout builds are not garbage. Prove your point by analyzing them in a grown up way? E.g. show some maths and calculations.

Engineer do NOT have any other viable ways to remove multiple conditions except overcharge the healing turret (removes 2 conditions after a delay, wow… as much as warrior’s mending). Or use the cleaning formula 409 and have a lot of elixir skills in the skill bar. Warriors have signet of stamina, which cleanses ALL the conditions. Shake it off has shorter cooldown than any engineer elixir skill, thus allowing the warrior to remove conditions more often not only from himself, but also from allies. Plus it is a also a stun break. With 6x soldier runes shake it off removes 2 conditions per use and other shouts remove 1 condition/shout.

Hammer warriors are the meta in EU top tier melee trains. Telling that hammer warrior sucks in WvWvW. LOL you must have never been hit by those well synced knockdown, cripple + immobilize lock front lines. That is why stability is the most important boon in the game. And removing stability at the right moment from the enemy zerg is uttermost crucial. A lot of the best WvWvW commanders play hammer warrior. You must go to tell them that warrior sucks in WvWvW. I think guys like Moorta could teach you a lesson. ;-)

For the others: I do NOT work for Arenanet. I am just a PuG commander. And I am very well aware how many engineer traits are broken at the moment or have been broken since the game was released (yes, many of those traits do nothing, I repeat absolutely nothing, at the moment).

I playing on EU servers, on warrior i got over 1,8k hours, and i will say that:

Shout build and hammers sux.

Ofc if u using hammer in a zerk its pretty effective as other classes can do the job for u, but try to use hammer in 1v1. I dindt had problems with any hammer shout whatever build, and i know when i pick a hammer by myself i standing away from 1v1 as its WEAK wep.

Shout build won’t save u against any heavy condition build like hgh engi, on top of that u lacking stunbreaks, heal from shouts is meh at best, if anything i would go with melandru runes+lotus root.

Warrior r fine in wvw bc they are covered by numbers, also skill level of ppl there is pretty low in general. In 1v1 against a decent player ur just a free kill still. However its not a discussion about wars being viable in wvw or not, tpvp does that job.
_____________

About topic healing signet inst the olny thing that needs a little boost. Healing signet itself should math a healing surge with the difference that signet stays passive, slowly regen, while surge will be a burst to prevent zerkers from using signet, as they wont be able to stay long enough without toughness. And then mending to wipe all conditions.

Warrior has dps bablabla, but without sustain they won’t last long to do any dps. I see warrior as class with highter sustain dps, with some kind of finisher that we have to build in fight – naturally talking about adrenaline “burst” skills. Guardians should still tanks better, but somehow we match them. They are more bunker type, we are more dps type. Its pretty lame that even a zerk guardian can still have a bit of sustain while we follow rule “kill before its kill u”.

As for vigor i managed to build a stack for over 1min with warhorn using buggy quick breathing trait. Once that trait get fixed im sure we will have less problems with conditions

Deniara Devious.3948:

Superior sigil of blood has 30% chance to trigger with critical hits and has 2 second internal cooldown.

Tooltip is bugged, Sigil of Blood is actually 5-second internal cooldown.

Looking at the numbers the healing from the signet’s passive seems to be inline with our other heals. Using the signet’s passive over the active of another heal is trading the secondary effect for the convience of not having to spend that second every so often casting your heal skill. That seems like a fair trade to me.

The real problem with the signet is that its active is weak in just about every way. Even the trading of healing now instead of over time does not work because of the cast time and how small the heal is.

To make it a button that it is ever worth pressing it needs to be buffed, either by making it a stronger heal, or by giving it a secondary effect that it is worth trading overall healing for.

Aralana.9527:

Looking at the numbers the healing from the signet’s passive seems to be inline with our other heals. Using the signet’s passive over the active of another heal is trading the secondary effect for the convience of not having to spend that second every so often casting your heal skill. That seems like a fair trade to me.

The real problem with the signet is that its active is weak in just about every way. Even the trading of healing now instead of over time does not work because of the cast time and how small the heal is.

To make it a button that it is ever worth pressing it needs to be buffed, either by making it a stronger heal, or by giving it a secondary effect that it is worth trading overall healing for.

It doesn’t have a secondary effect like the other heals that heal for more do, it also has less opportunity cost and we have no control over it. Its also extremely vulnerable to things like poison since we have little to no condition removal.

Most of the Warriors heals are terrible, we have probably the worst healing in the game with our ‘6’ abilities.

Our Signet sucks and everyone knows it, its healing is comparable to other classes ‘traits…’ (Which I won’t bother making a list naming.) It is quite a long list.

Healing Signet: Active, Steal Life from nearby foes and blind them (instant to 1/2 second activation (depends on life steal value and range), same cooldown)

Artaz.3819:

Healing Signet: Active, Steal Life from nearby foes and blind them (instant to 1/2 second activation (depends on life steal value and range), same cooldown)

Sounds more like a necro type of healing imo than warriors.

Brutalistik.6473:

Artaz.3819:

Healing Signet: Active, Steal Life from nearby foes and blind them (instant to 1/2 second activation (depends on life steal value and range), same cooldown)

Sounds more like a necro type of healing imo than warriors.

Yeah I was gonna say, nice necromancer skill man.

Actually, more like Signet of Locust (Necro) and Signet of Midnight (Mesmer) combined…

Now that I think about it, just make the Active on Healing Signet a Stun Break (and instant).

Artaz.3819:

Actually, more like Signet of Locust (Necro) and Signet of Midnight (Mesmer) combined…

Now that I think about it, just make the Active on Healing Signet a Stun Break (and instant).

Problem with that is…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Adventurer
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Flock
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_the_Water
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Altruism
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rune_of_Lyssa

Healing Signet has a 16 second CD when traited, if its instant cast stun break, combined with those, it can be also an amazing heal. The passive would remain worthless.

@Deniara

WvW zerging consists of groups of guardians spamming staff skill 1 while steamrolling through opposing groups of players and a few staff elementalists chaining lightning field together for optimal stun uptime. And a sprinkle of Mesmer.

I’ve recently started watching guildwars 2 on twitch again and I’ve seen the hammer train of warriors and it made me laugh. Everytime they dove the zerg they were lucky to down one person. If there was one competent Mesmer in the other zerg the wars would of pwned themselves on confusion from blindly swinging there hammers lol.

And you never join wvw to zerg that is pathetic you join wvw to fight the zerg with a smaller force. And commander pins are worthless in their current state all they are is pug magnets. Since wvw is doing better than spvp in this game don’t make it worse by zerging please.

And for condi argument you want warriors to rune for condi removal through shouts and use utility slots as well? I’m sure no one has tried that yet and it’s not terrible either.

The second you force the Warrior to use Items that are not part of his traits or class that everyone else can use to make up a weakness is the second you should realize that the class is /NOT/ balanced and abilities need updated to the current meta.

AlBundy.7851:

@Deniara

WvW zerging consists of groups of guardians spamming staff skill 1 while steamrolling through opposing groups of players and a few staff elementalists chaining lightning field together for optimal stun uptime. And a sprinkle of Mesmer.

I’ve recently started watching guildwars 2 on twitch again and I’ve seen the hammer train of warriors and it made me laugh. Everytime they dove the zerg they were lucky to down one person. If there was one competent Mesmer in the other zerg the wars would of pwned themselves on confusion from blindly swinging there hammers lol.

And you never join wvw to zerg that is pathetic you join wvw to fight the zerg with a smaller force. And commander pins are worthless in their current state all they are is pug magnets. Since wvw is doing better than spvp in this game don’t make it worse by zerging please.

And for condi argument you want warriors to rune for condi removal through shouts and use utility slots as well? I’m sure no one has tried that yet and it’s not terrible either.

If you have read my posts at the WvWvW subforum and suggestions, you will notice that I am against zerging. I dislike the current meta, but I cannot change it myself. I wish Anet would remove the silly AoE limits from offensive skills (skills affecting allies should still only affect max 5 to decrease blobbing ).

I have also suggested several improvements to the commander title.

Not everybody can have a guild team. Often you have just few random guys on the map, no commander, no guild teams. Your side is horribly outmanned and enemy controls all the lands. Is then turning on the commander tag that bad? After all usually it means that 1-2 hours later you have control of half of the map.

I do most of my WvWvW as a solo roamer e.g. today I did dozens of objectives alone at the Deso BL. Quaggans, island of storms, supply camps, sentries, plus killing some enemy invaders who happened be in the way and constantly reporting enemy movements to our commander, while allowed us to ninja cap stuff ;-). Hours of solo roaming, I finally died in a zerg fight couple of hours later. Even when I am commanding I am usually without party. I do crazy stuff like dive through the enemy zerg without any sort of bunker build. I use the dodge button and movement skills a lot though e.g. Elixir R gives me 4 dodges in a row, also as a warrior I am fan of dodging as damage mitigation, signet of stamina gives faster endurance vigor, thus it stays in my bar, despite it has long cooldown if I need to use it as condition removal. I have sacrificed some damage to get defensive boons like protection etc. which greatly increase survivability. I think protection is better than high armor, so I am not running on the typical PVT set, but I used mixed (balanced) stats.

Hundreds of hours as solo roamer I am used not to rely on others. I do the combo fields myself. Yet, I do actually quite a lot of support, healing my allies, giving them regeneration, many stacks of might, cleansing lots of conditions from them, reviving them even under enemy fire. I use sort of triple regeneration, yes, both warriors and engis can do that (in fact my warrior can get up to 4 passive heals stacked and active at same time and still dish very good sustained damage and almost non-stop crits). ;-)

Despite healing signet is not that good, it serves a purpose in WvWvW. When the mega lag hits in, most players cannot activate their healing skill at all. Pressing 6 for half a minute a row and nothing happens. Passive healing (healing signet + adrenal health) is great when manning siege weapons e.g. flaming ram or while reviving allies.
Stonemist castle fights have so super lag that I tend to stay away from them, but there healing signet is probably the best heal as the other healing skills simply cease to work at all.

Any class is good in a zerg.

Sebrent.3625:

That’s amusing because many Rangers would argue that Warriors have superior ranged skills with their Rifle.

That healing per second is assuming you are using your heal every time it is off cooldown. This is not the case.

Additionally, let’s look at warrior heals … heal / (cast + cooldown)

• 272 hps : Healing Surge w/ 3 Adrenaline: 8,440 / 31 = 272 … and fill adrenaline
• 221 hps : Healing Surge w/ 2 Adrenaline: 6,840 / 31 = 221 … and fill adrenaline
• 214 hps : Mending: 5,560 / 26 = 214 … and remove conditions
• 192 hps : Healing Signet w/ Trait: 3,320 / 17.25 = 192 … and 200 hps passive
• 190 hps : Healing Surge w/ 1 Adrenaline: 5,880 / 31 = 190 … and fill adrenaline
• 169 hps : Healing Surge w/ 0 Adrenaline: 5,240 / 31 = 169 … and fill adrenaline
• 156 hps : Healing Signet w/o Trait: 3,320 / 21.25 = 156 … and 200 hps passive

As you can see, Healing Signet with a single 10 point trait is a very good heal without its passive, beating out Healing Surge unless it is used with 2+ pips of adrenaline.

Do the math, then talk :-)

ok my actual numbers with 150 heal power are healing signet is either a passive 215 hps OR a 3470 heal per 16 sec (216.875 heal/sec)

surge at full adren (which you should always be using it at) is 8590 per 30 sec (286.333 heal/sec)

and umm, yes in large scale wvw battles im using heal every time its off cooldown period… In fact im spaming it before its off of cooldown so it goes off right away!

Deniara Devious.3948:

Shout builds are not garbage. Prove your point by analyzing them in a grown up way? E.g. show some maths and calculations.

Engineer do NOT have any other viable ways to remove multiple conditions except overcharge the healing turret (removes 2 conditions after a delay, wow… as much as warrior’s mending). Or use the cleaning formula 409 and have a lot of elixir skills in the skill bar. Warriors have signet of stamina, which cleanses ALL the conditions. Shake it off has shorter cooldown than any engineer elixir skill, thus allowing the warrior to remove conditions more often not only from himself, but also from allies. Plus it is a also a stun break. With 6x soldier runes shake it off removes 2 conditions per use and other shouts remove 1 condition/shout.

Hammer warriors are the meta in EU top tier melee trains. Telling that hammer warrior sucks in WvWvW. LOL you must have never been hit by those well synced knockdown, cripple + immobilize lock front lines. That is why stability is the most important boon in the game. And removing stability at the right moment from the enemy zerg is uttermost crucial. A lot of the best WvWvW commanders play hammer warrior. You must go to tell them that warrior sucks in WvWvW. I think guys like Moorta could teach you a lesson. ;-)

For the others: I do NOT work for Arenanet. I am just a PuG commander. And I am very well aware how many engineer traits are broken at the moment or have been broken since the game was released (yes, many of those traits do nothing, I repeat absolutely nothing, at the moment).

Shout builds ARE garbage. They are total garbage. Warriors have problems with sustain and they are supposed to address that by healing and curing conditions on others? Where is the logic in that? The amount of dps that they give up when running a shout build is rediculous and just means they won’t be killing anything. Oh, but at least they get all that extra vitality through the heavy investment in tactics and from the runes. Like we need the extra health that we won’t be able to heal back up…

That you don’t recognize how bad a shout warrior is just shows that you don’t really play a warrior despite claims that it is your second main. What the hell is a second main anyways? I think the word you’re looking for is “alt”. I think it’s obvious that you really only play an engineer. But hey, at least you’re a PuG Commander! Wow! That really means something….

@ Tammuz.7361

“ok my actual numbers with 150 heal power are healing signet is either a passive 215 hps OR a 3470 heal per 16 sec (216.875 heal/sec)”

The passive scales at .033

Therefore 150 Healing Power will only increase the passive heal by 4.95 giving you 204.95 HPS not 215. In game displays as 205 per tick.

The active portion scales at .5 and has a base value of 3275 so with 150 Healing Power it would scale to 3350 which yields 209.375 HPS not 216.875 by your methodology. The tooltip is wrong in game it shows both a higher base value and incorrect scaling as described in the wiki.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet

If you add in the cast time which is a more accurate method of getting HPS you’ll see this impacts Healing Signet more than Mending or Healing Surge since it has a longer cast that ALSO needs to be applied more frequently.

Just wanted to note that I tested my values in the mist just prior to posting this by putting 15 points into defense (to gain 150 Healing Power) and then jumping into the fire to check heal values to verify that nothing had changed in a recent patch.

Let’s take a look at warrior hp/sec the same way we did with the Ranger … actual numbers per healing power with various combinations of sources of healing per second.

Take a look at the spreadsheet pics, or download the .txt and rename it to a .csv to look at them in your own spreadsheet.

Compare those to what we have here for the Ranger:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Data-Ranger-Health-Per-Second/first#post1819583

Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.

This is why I think this complaining is silly.

You should look at the actual numbers before complaining about something.

Thanks for the numbers, Sebrent.

One thing though, and not that I’m siding with the people wanting OP regen on Warrior but…one thing to note between the difference is Warrior is using his heal skill to accomplish the stated regen amounts while the Ranger can get some decent regen numbers + still have a water field to leap through, a higher powered heal-over-time or a moderate burst heal ontop of that regen.

But a Warrior can indeed get decent HPS with 0 healing power. With just Healing Signet, Adrenal Health and Regen, that’s over 450 HPS for no investment in healing. To accomplish this for other classes, they have to invest into healing and/or use active healing.

Still think the active could be spiced up…could even make it a version of Troll Unguent and make it a (relatively) powerful heal, stronger than Healing Surge, but over the course of 10 seconds. This would help out a good deal because, after those 10 seconds, you just have 10 seconds more to wait for more healing instead of 20. You can even keep the cast time how it is which would be a decent balancing measure.

So how about that?
Healing Signet Passive: 200(x0.1 Healing)
Healing Signet Active: 856 (same as Troll Unguent) every second for 10 seconds (x0.05 Healing which is half the scaling of TU)

Sebrent.3625:

Let’s take a look at warrior hp/sec the same way we did with the Ranger … actual numbers per healing power with various combinations of sources of healing per second.

Take a look at the spreadsheet pics, or download the .txt and rename it to a .csv to look at them in your own spreadsheet.

Compare those to what we have here for the Ranger:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Data-Ranger-Health-Per-Second/first#post1819583

Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.

This is why I think this complaining is silly.

You should look at the actual numbers before complaining about something.

Too bad food can’t work in pvp which is another field that should be looked upon and when I mean pvp I don’t mean WvW.

Brutalistik.6473:

Sebrent.3625:

Let’s take a look at warrior hp/sec the same way we did with the Ranger … actual numbers per healing power with various combinations of sources of healing per second.

Take a look at the spreadsheet pics, or download the .txt and rename it to a .csv to look at them in your own spreadsheet.

Compare those to what we have here for the Ranger:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Data-Ranger-Health-Per-Second/first#post1819583

Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.

This is why I think this complaining is silly.

You should look at the actual numbers before complaining about something.

Too bad food can’t work in pvp which is another field that should be looked upon and when I mean pvp I don’t mean WvW.

Then look at the rows without food?

I mean, why do you think he made the different rows with different combos of healing?

I’m fine with people thinking the active heal on Healing Signet should be improved, either the base heal and/or the rate at which it scales with the healing power stat.

However, I do not think the passive hp/sec needs to be buffed. It starts off superior to what other classes have and even after considerable amounts of healing power is still superior.

I did include multiple rows so that you can see exactly how much hp/sec you can get with varying sources of healing per sec as well as varying amounts of healing power.

Leo G.4501:

Brutalistik.6473:

Sebrent.3625:

Let’s take a look at warrior hp/sec the same way we did with the Ranger … actual numbers per healing power with various combinations of sources of healing per second.

Take a look at the spreadsheet pics, or download the .txt and rename it to a .csv to look at them in your own spreadsheet.

Compare those to what we have here for the Ranger:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Data-Ranger-Health-Per-Second/first#post1819583

Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.

This is why I think this complaining is silly.

You should look at the actual numbers before complaining about something.

Too bad food can’t work in pvp which is another field that should be looked upon and when I mean pvp I don’t mean WvW.

Then look at the rows without food?

I mean, why do you think he made the different rows with different combos of healing?

Oh I know I’m just saying too bad you can’t use food in pvp and I don’t mean WvW because some people treat WvW like Spvp atmosphere.

Ranger has better condition removal and you can’t compare /Regeneration/ with our ‘6’ ability, redo your chart without Healing Signet and you will see we are actually very similar and in-fact yours is a little better since yours does not need full adrenaline and you don’t need to carry a banner around.

Rangers have easy access to TONS of condition removal, which is way better then regeneration, Who cares about regeneration if you can’t remove POISON? Ranger’s can easily with there traits and water fields, try that on a warrior.

Rangers have easy access to protection and regeneration, Protection if your not familiar with it, is pretty much another set of armor. Rangers can have double the armor of a warrior if they play right.

Rangers have access to multiple evades, which I can’t stress enough how powerful they are.

Rangers don’t have to give up rune slots and STUN BREAKS for condition removal like we do, we MUST have Rune of the Soldier and all shouts to heal conditions 1/6th as a ranger can, pretty funny huh?

Please consider all factors, all charts do is try to screw with balance. Of course a /HEALING ABILITY/ will have good HPS, its a HEALING ability.

@ Serbent

“Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.”

Not sure how you are defining little. The ranger doesn’t give up his 6 slot heal to get his passive regen. This means they get the 6 heal in addition to all that passive regen this equates to about an additional 400 HPS over the regen numbers listed. The warrior doesn’t have that luxury. This also means the ranger is free to use his 6 heal to proc Rune sets like Lyssa, Centaur, or Dwayna.

In addition to that for a warrior to have a high dependable uptime on regen from warrior abilities he really only has 1 option. Invest 30 points in tactics and carry a banner around. Rangers running heavy regen build take Dwayna runes to augment their regen. This is somewhat counterproductive on the warrior as it removes the passive 200+ HPS from the Healing Signet where the ranger doesn’t lose any regen from activating his 6 heal to gain regen.

@ Leo G

“So how about that?
Healing Signet Passive: 200(x0.1 Healing)
Healing Signet Active: 856 (same as Troll Unguent) every second for 10 seconds (x0.05 Healing which is half the scaling of TU)”

That’s way too strong. It works out to ~496HPS with 0 healing power if you take the signet cooldown trait. That’s almost twice the healing of healing surge at full adrenalin.

I’d actually suggest a new trait that allows you to maintain the passive effect of signets after they are activated (Eles have that as an Earth Grandmaster trait). That would yield about ~390 HPS w- no healing power and ~500 HPS w- 2,000 healing power. Compare that to Healing Surge with Full Adrenalin with no trait investment at ~272 HPS with 0 Healing Power and ~337 with 2000 Healing Power.

I think Healing Signet should be unique.

Healing Signet

Passive:
Healing received on skill activation, heals more the closer to death you are.
100%-50%: 20 + (3 * Level) + (0.3 * Healing Power)
50%-25%: 30 + (4 * Level) + (0.45 * Healing Power)
25%-0%: 50 + (4 * Level) + (0.65 * Healing Power)
(Numbers can be adjusted, don’t freak out!)

Active:
3,320 (1.0) (not 0.5, 1.0 like it actually SAYS.)
Instant Cast
Breaks Stun

Its pretty much the opposite of a couple stacks of confusion, and you give it up for a healing stun break.

This makes it more on-par with Signet of Malice and Signet of Restoration’s healing amounts.

This means the Warrior has to be actively using his abilities and burst to get the most out of healing, this favors warriors actively using there abilities (like shouts.) and does not favor warriors who hold there abilities lazily (like signets, banners.)

Daecollo.9578:

I think Healing Signet should be unique.

Healing Signet

Passive:
Healing received on skill activation.
30 + (4 * Level) + (0.45 * Healing Power)

Active:
3,320 (1.0) (not 0.5, 1.0 like it actually SAYS.)
Instant Cast
Breaks Stun

Its pretty much the opposite of a couple stacks of confusion, and you give it up for a healing stun break.

This makes it more on-par with Signet of Malice and Signet of Restoration’s healing amounts.

Wait, what?

You want to give Warriors a beefed up version of Signet of Restoration?

And if that is so, then you would need to nerf the crap out of those multipliers. You’re talking 485 hp for every attack we make, just by having 30 into Defense. Go full healing power and it’s 1,253 hp per attack. And that’s kittening ridiculous.

Hey guys … take your points and look at the rows where you are only uses the sources you’re mentioning. I provided all of that data for you.

It is obvious you didn’t even look since you asked me to redo it when that information is already there.

If you aren’t going to actually look at the data, then stop debating as “you’re just running your mouth”.

When it comes to what all the Ranger is stacking, you have to take into account the opportunity costs lost from those selections. They are investing an enormous amount to get that level of hp/sec while a warrior can get it with far less.

Are there differences such as where the passive regen signets are? Yes. Can the ranger use their heal without dropping their passive hp/sec? Yes. But the ranger is also giving up a utility slot that could be used for something else. Different classes, different trade-offs.

Ultimately, a high passive hp/sec is much easier for a warrior to attain than a Ranger, freeing up more of the warrior’s stats for other things.

To the post above, I will gladly trade my utility slot for another healing slot, sounds like a fair and fun trade to me!

Passive:
Healing received on skill activation, heals intensify the closer to death you are.
100%-70%: 20 + (2 * Level) + (0.2 * Healing Power)
70%-33%: 30 + (3 * Level) + (0.33 * Healing Power)
33%-0%: 50 + (4 * Level) + (0.45 * Healing Power)
(Numbers can be adjusted, don’t freak out!)

Active:
2,220 (1.0) (not 0.5, 1.0 like it actually SAYS.)
Cooldown: 15s
Instant Cast
Breaks Stun

Less healing then the current active, but lower cool-down with a better passive effect and a stun break, so you use it when you need it but you lose powerful sustain.