Guild Wars 2

So much fun on EB! Great fights all three servers… well aside from it seems Kain appears to be short coverage. Still great fights.

Cloak and dagger is becoming one of those cheap tricks, like spawn camping with siege, or jumping on a body after your zerg just wiped one player. We know the guild doing it. Any chance of them playing with integrity?

Cloak and Dagger is a class ability, not a method of play. If you’re referring to spamming CnD on walls: it’s ANet’s job to fix that, not the playerbase’s.

Since CnD is not an exploit, it isn’t breaking integrity. There’s a simple way to counter a CND thief…leave some necro traps, or camp the dead bodies, and spam one. In most keeps/towers there are only a limited number of walls that can hit for damage, so just spam your 1 near there, or lay some AoE’s, and you can find the thief nice and fast!

Fyi, I don’t appreciate the ram being built on my face I even gave you Chocolate Oranges!

Also they need to make sure the death time can’t be reset, sick of seeing mesmers intentionally circumventing it so they can stay dead for hours.

I think no one would miss thieves but thieves if they were entirely removed from WvW, much like the culling they use to achieve a 100% stealth rate. XD

Asking thieves + dead mesmers to not try and take back a keep/tower is like asking another server to not bunch up and portal bomb. It has become a play mechanic that uses the crumby culling system to be effective and its a pain in the butt.

In other words, it takes a degree of coordination and a lack of attention from the defending server to be effective. Portal bombs wouldn’t be effective with proper scouting and reporting just like defenders in towers and keep reduces the effectiveness of a dead mesmer / thief combo. Granted preventing this combo from flipping a keep or a garrison is much more personnel intensive.

Basically, it is a part of the stupid buggy mess that is WvW. Thanks anet!

i wish ppl stop doing dead mesmer with thief perma stealth. only good thing from this is make me laugh when seeing 20ppl sit around paper tower just for wait thief res mesmer to port them in. why dont u just drop the ram kittenmit!! lol

Handin.4032:

Since CnD is not an exploit, it isn’t breaking integrity. There’s a simple way to counter a CND thief…leave some necro traps, or camp the dead bodies, and spam one. In most keeps/towers there are only a limited number of walls that can hit for damage, so just spam your 1 near there, or lay some AoE’s, and you can find the thief nice and fast!

Fyi, I don’t appreciate the ram being built on my face I even gave you Chocolate Oranges!

Camping the dead bodies for the 15 minutes it takes for them to despawn? No thank you. I am here asking to make this game fun, not use little “cheap tricks” to bypass they way the game is suppose to be played. We all know it takes Arena Net awhile to fix anything. So I am here asking the player base, more specifically a certain group if we can do that. but judging on the answers doesn’t look like I will get anywhere.

as for the the player we built the ram on, once again something cheap as you were getting rezzed through the gate of inner. So far just TC coming on here saying arena net allows it so therefore we can do it. I understand that. But to make someone sit there and corpse watch for a long period of time is insane. Rez and get back on the field so everyone can have fun.

Urrid.4593:

I think no one would miss thieves but thieves if they were entirely removed from WvW, much like the culling they use to achieve a 100% stealth rate. XD

Asking thieves + dead mesmers to not try and take back a keep/tower is like asking another server to not bunch up and portal bomb. It has become a play mechanic that uses the crumby culling system to be effective and its a pain in the butt.

In other words, it takes a degree of coordination and a lack of attention from the defending server to be effective. Portal bombs wouldn’t be effective with proper scouting and reporting just like defenders in towers and keep reduces the effectiveness of a dead mesmer / thief combo. Granted preventing this combo from flipping a keep or a garrison is much more personnel intensive.

Basically, it is a part of the stupid buggy mess that is WvW. Thanks anet!

You are right, but WE as the playerbase and also step up and put a stop to it. Now this will not stop players from doing it, but as major guilds that are respected, lets try and go about things so everyone has fun.

We shouldn’t have to leave players to sentry keeps either. That’s boring.

Monsoon.2589:

Miiaah.5416:

There’s lag game wide, I’ve noticed it really bad in EBG and Garrisons as well as against Kaineng more so than TC but Kain side of the maps are always lag filled messes. Right before reset last night we were fighting a large amount of TC that wanted their keep back and I never lagged once, never lagged taking the keep either.

I posted something similar and it was flagged. Its clear that this is not a single machine issue.

Yeah the Kaineng fights are always lagged out messes where you can’t use your abilities at all, not sure what they do different than TC but most TC fights are normal no matter how big or what area of the map.

Back when we were in T1 it was the same with SoS, not sure if there are certain abilities they spam or what to make it worse. It’s funny but Warhammer so many years ago had some pretty massive battles and you could play on a cheap laptop

I honestly don’t mind a thief ressurecting a mesmer inside a keep/tower trick. That is honestly a legit tactic.

What isn’t cool is a thief perma stealthing by c&ding a wall for over an hour to ressurect a mesmer. You very well know that is not intended game play and thus unsportsman like. And saying "its not our fault Anet hasn’t fixed it. Does that mean everyone should start using the teleport hacks since Anet hasn’t fixed those either?

And to stay for us to go around aoeing, pressing 1 on on every wall is ridiculous.

Anyways, I know we can’t change the acts of an entire server. But i hope those who read this will rise above and play as the players I know and respect.

Your arguments would be valid if ANet had stated that any of these tactics were exploits. They said the teleport hacks were exploits, thats why they’re not legit tactics. However, using a mesmer to stay in a keep is perfectly fine and legal and legit tactic. You may not like it, but it is…

CnD’ing a keep wall to stay invisible is obviously not intended by A-net. You guys can’t be seriously defending this gameplay? This is coming from a thief as well.

Handin.4032:

Your arguments would be valid if ANet had stated that any of these tactics were exploits. They said the teleport hacks were exploits, thats why they’re not legit tactics. However, using a mesmer to stay in a keep is perfectly fine and legal and legit tactic. You may not like it, but it is…

ANet doesn’t say anything about corpse dancing either, but we frown upon that as well. There’s a difference between a mes hiding in a keep – where the defenders can do something about it by finding the mesmer – and one that stays dead. There should be some option for defenders to burn corpses or something….

And I doubt when ANet was designing mesmer portals, they thought about the idea to hide in a keep and portal people through…however, it is used that way and it is NOT an exploit. It’s not a matter of whether or not it was intended…but whether or not its exploited play. It’s a defense which CAN be countered, as long as people just don’t run off the moment they take a keep. Thieves CnD’ing off of walls isn’t too hard to counter, since theres only a finite number of walls people can CnD off of, so, its called AoE and spamming 1 at those spots…

There are certain TC guilds known to keep abusing this permastealth theif/res dead mesmer, which i wont name the shame here. The fact that Kain rarely use this but fight us head on give them some credits.

TC u can argue what you think but we all know in your heart that it is not intended metagame. It is just wrong for 20+ ppl to search for one kitten thief inside a very small inner keep area for half an hour+ and unable to catch the thief. That permanent stealth is just wrong and only they can do that because they can “c&d the wall” not player. Im sure that “c&d wall” will get nerfed soon if Anet really pay attention to WvW.

I’ve actually been one of those dead mesmers inside a tower. Not often, mind you, but on occasion. The way I look at it is we station folks inside towers or keeps for reasons of defense. If the only end goal is to take over and leave, then you open yourself wide up to a flip. I understand the frustration of trying to track down one thief in a big massive keep, we had one guy from BG inside our garrison one day for three hours, lol drove us crazy .. but we left enough people behind to guard the keep and keep searching for him — eventually we found him.

Fact is, both BG and KN have almost double the bodies we do. If we can keep folks in our key objectives to make sure it’s not flipped, surely you guys can do it too. Otherwise I would assume if you leave it, it’s not that important to you and other things take priority.

No, we’re not defending it as something intended by ANet, we’re defending peoples’ right s to utilize existing game mechanics in any way they choose to. Until ANet patches this out of existence (and I agree, CnD on a wall is bullkitten, and I play a thief), people are going to do it. Players shouldn’t have to restrict themselves in respect to game mechanics because of external factors that aren’t built into the game.

“I think warriors are bullkitten, people should stop playing warriors until ANet removes them from the game.” Yes, this is obviously a more ludicrous example, but the intention is the same.

Here’s my thing: It has been done for quite some time, and yet I rarely see ANYONE try to actually do anything about countering it. It just happens, and they come on here to cry foul…ALL these arguments were used when people starting portaling into keeps, and yet not many people use that tactic. To keep saying “It’s not intended” is silly, because no DEV has come on and stated that it should not be done and will be changed. So, instead of just griping about it and grumbling about it, you can learn to counter it many people who try the tactic give up after waiting for a short amount of time..there’s only a few people who have the patience to sit for a while. And as for waiting for an hour..if you cannot find a thief in a tightly confined area in 1 hour, then you need to lay some more AoE’s. Earlier in Bay, the thief was finally caught after they finally figured out how to lay some necro marks in smart places. I’ve seen MANY times when people lay necro marks on walk ways trying to get the thief, when many CnD thieves stand in the same spot on the same wall….

But I’m sure if ANet doesn’t want this done, they’ll change it Tuesday or at least make a post about it. I’m sure they know about it. So, instead of trying to debate what we think anet wants to do, or what they think or don’t think is just silly because we aren’t them. If you hate the tactic, just learn the easy way to counter it (it’s just like sweeping for mesmers, just more AOE!), and wait to see if anet actually says or does anything about it But it’s no more abusing than a thief to cnd off siege to stay permastealthed while killing your siege, or rangers throwing pets onto walls past LOS constantly, or any of the other so called “cheap” tactics..

All of you guys are ignoring that the mesmers are intentionally circumventing the intended idle timer while dead. Why even have a logout timer while dead if they intended you to be able to stay dead for hours? No equipment changes should be available while dead.

Well, once again: I’m sure anet dev’s know this. I challenge them to come on this thread and tell us mesmers that that is an exploit and we should stop doing it. In my mind, we’re not idle. We’re there, coordinating, etc…so we’re not circumventing an “idle” timer at all. Now, if it was a death clock that we were circumventing, thats something totally different….

You should be booted after 15 minutes.

Technically, Handin is right. The idle timer isn’t intended to stop people from laying there dead as long as they want, it’s intended to clear players who are afk from the server stack. That being said, a mesmer laying there dead isn’t a problem unless there’s someone else (a thief) inside the keep to rez them, or they can be rezzed through a door (which is also a pretty poor design decision imo). This problem is still stemming from the other problem, which complaining to other players about won’t change. What you can do is take measures to stop thieves from stealthing, but I’m hoping that at the very least they add a visible animation upon stealth initiation. This would only matter if you were already stealthed when using CnD, so it wouldn’t harm thieves in actual combat.

If the objective is important to your team, leave folks behind to guard it. If TC can do this with our limited numbers, then both KN and BG can easily do this. This is how you counter this, along with necro aoe’s and reading the signs of a thief in your keep.

Hint: The first sign is a dead mesmer.

This isn’t limited to TC. I’ve seen thieves from BG do this as well .. as I mentioned above, you have one particularly skilled thief who managed to stay inside our garrison for well over three hours. Pain in the you know what, but we kept bodies behind and we eventually got him.

SmokeyNYY.7841:

CnD’ing a keep wall to stay invisible is obviously not intended by A-net. You guys can’t be seriously defending this gameplay? This is coming from a thief as well.

Agree, CnD on a wall is obviously ridiculous. It will be fixed. In the meantime many thieves will use it just like many of us are using skale venom until the next patch— i.e. a weird kind of balance.

I save all your hassels.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/WvW-Thief-Perma-Stealth-C-D-wall-intend

Bump it for us please in hope that Anet will answer it.
I hope you understand our frustration when some guilds keep repeat doing this. Please dont turn a nice WvW thread into some kitten excuse permanent thief C&D wall thread. It is enough, you have your stance while we have ours, Let Anet referee decide.

I don’t think anyone’s going to be convincing anyone of anything here, especially since all three servers do it. Just report it if you see it and think it’s illegal and move on.

Didn’t Sam send a question into Anet asking if this was considered an exploit and was told no it’s not? It was posted in this thread, but can’t find it now. He posted a screenshot of the helpdesk answer.

Jayne.9251:

Didn’t Sam send a question into Anet asking if this was considered an exploit and was told no it’s not? It was posted in this thread, but can’t find it now. He posted a screenshot of the helpdesk answer.

I got infracted and that post got deleted because apparently we aren’t allowed to post a “Support Ticket” here.

The moderators here are not support. All specific instances of a support ticket (regardless of content) will be deleted. This is just how every MMO I’ve played does it.

Gosh it would be nice if Anet actually gave a kitten about WvW and then we wouldn’t have to pretend we can find an answer.

Personally I think all corpses should auto respawn at the basic waypoint in 5 minutes and the wvw AFK timer should be bumped up to 15 minutes of inactivity = boot. This would help queues as well as solve this “problem.” Or be more extreme and make it 3 minutes so it gives zergs more of a reason to push during a field battle so they can rez the fallen or…

There are about a hundred and one simple things Anet could do to improve the WvW metagame and the crumby mechanics but they won’t. Join sPvP instead and pay for tickets lolololololol

:<

Sam.3645:

I got infracted and that post got deleted because apparently we aren’t allowed to post a “Support Ticket” here.

That’s silly. I submitted a ticket about the same issue and I got the generic response of “This is an issue the Dev team is already aware of and has already planned for a fix in an upcoming patch.”

I’d post the picture but since we’re not allowed to…

iMelon.6518:

“This is an issue the Dev team is already aware of and has already planned for a fix in an upcoming patch.”

Well there we go, question answered.

Everyone will complain about this “unintended tactic ruining the game”, but then an hour later when a real fight actually breaks out we will all apply our skale venom and spam our gears for the win and act like nothing is wrong. ANET didn’t intend for culling to be part of the games mechanic as well, but we will all try our best to use culling to our advantage because it is in the game. It is the nature of videogames to do whatever it takes to get ahead. I know that sounds like a cop-out, but a lot of us felt (and still feel) that portaling into keeps after a certain period of time after the cap is a cheap tactic – but Anet did nothing and even supported it, so we have just learned to deal with it and take the extra time to sweep.

There will always be people from these servers doing these things, and we will just have to wait for Anet to fix or or atleast come out against it publicly while they work on a fix.

Until then, we shouldn’t let the thread devolve into your standard WvW thread, because that will only sour this matchup and we will end up with another reason to want to WvW less. I for one love going up against players that I respect, and I hope that does not change.

As for the people doing it, maybe this thread will change their view on the subject and maybe it won’t – but we cannot start down this path, because then we will all just end up looking like a bunch of Fort Aspenwoods. (bazinga)

Quick, somebody defuse the situation!

TheFug.5278:

Quick, somebody defuse the situation!

Cookies, pirates, and dolyak parades, oh my!

Lets not ruin our perfect thread here, it would be silly if we got a 33 page thread closed over something like this.

OMG. Guesting Blackgate NOW! There are real sailor moons here in Hoelbrak!
http://www.blackgatewvw.com/gw2-tumblr-party-now/

TV and TC militia in EB enjoyed the fights this afternoon/early evening vs RISE and HB. Dang HB coming back at us with an even bigger zerg after we wiped your bigger numbers a couple times :p

pot.6805:

You should be booted after 15 minutes.

However you keep switching armor, it’s indefinite.

FW

Vanity.2506:

TV and TC militia in EB enjoyed the fights this afternoon/early evening vs RISE and HB. Dang HB coming back at us with an even bigger zerg after we wiped your bigger numbers a couple times :p

Haha, yeah thnx TV that was FUNN! you guys stack some crazy zerg!! Half of my guys RISE were queued.. but it was definetely fun against HB this afternoon, we were surprised to roll in a HB zerg xD

http://www.youtube.com/primordusvirtus

SmokeyNYY.7841:

CnD’ing a keep wall to stay invisible is obviously not intended by A-net. You guys can’t be seriously defending this gameplay? This is coming from a thief as well.

Personally, I do not have a problem with players doing this. That said, I would not do it myself because I want to actually be playing the game and not just hitting CnD over and over. It’s a game and people can play it how they want.

Until Anet makes a call on this issue. Let’s all focus on what we ourselves can do. Sweep your keeps, or as a pretty awesome commander once told me,
“Keep your camps and camp your keeps”.

I for one am always willing to sweep and stay behind for some good defense. I know I’m kinda weird, but I like siege and defense. I giggle when I get my trebs sighted in well. I lol even more when I do find one of my fellow pesky thieves in MAHHH keep/tower/anywhere. I know I’m still rather new to all the ins and outs of WvW and therefore a noob, but I respect our match-up servers far too much to not be willing to hunt them down and give them *hugs ~ g~

That poster is priceless. Well done!

To the BG thief at KN Bay earlier: No, I did not want a duel but put up a fight anyway cause you went for me. I wish there was some way to refuse these sorts of things…
On a brighter note: Wonder if KoTN will respect RE after tonight. Quite a few wipes went on…

JudgeD.5673:

To the BG thief at KN Bay earlier: No, I did not want a duel but put up a fight anyway cause you went for me. I wish there was some way to refuse these sorts of things…

/no and run like hell! The water is your friend.

Really? At least I was found worthy of a /bow.

Thanks for all the lovely fights tonight from many guilds on all the BL’s

/Salute

JudgeD.5673:

Really? At least I was found worthy of a /bow.

Oh I never pass up and opportunity to duel, especially against someone polite enough to start it with a bow. Such people also usually recognize a /no as someone being unwilling to fight.

If that fails, running into the water is probably the easiest way to get rid of a thief. They don’t like it down there.

Saruon.4085:

Thanks for all the lovely fights tonight from many guilds on all the BL’s

/Salute

My god, running with a lot of militia on BG BL today and fighting you guys and FoE was quite the challenge.

Great work on your part as well, can’t wait for tomorrow!

/salute

Repelling evil TC pirates with steel rain and cannister!