Guild Wars 2

RiWiJo.7502:

Nothing is right in WvW again. Posts complaining that the “under attack” notice at objectives now displays 30 seconds after it is first attacked just make it easier for zergs to dominate vis-a-vis posts complaining that stronger arrow carts make it impossible for anyone to take a keep or objective and thus destroy zergs….sheeze.

Maybe instead of complaining you should modify tactics. Because of the 30 second rule guards will have to be posted. Because of the powerful arrow carts guards may be able to slow a zerg down. Maybe more siege will be used to take keeps and towers. Field deployable arrow carts, especially at choke points, may throw the balance in some battles. Maybe more small groups trying to destroy siege will come into vogue. Who knows, just quit complaining and work it out.

Personally I hope the days of just blindly following a zerg around are limited.

No, change is bad. I have to actually think and adapt instead of just mindless rushing everything.

Something needs to be done against zergs. I love WvW just as much as the next person, but this whole numbers game really has to go. By default if you have 30 attacking a group of 10 in a capped tower, the 30 will eventually get in, that is all there is to it.

There needs to be far more strategy involved so that:

1) The ones outnumbered actually have a fighting chance
2) The ones with sheer numbers will have to start employing different tactics and strategies.

I would like to see a single person be able to either defend or wipe out an entire zerg (if need be) which forces the zerg to use their numbers more wisely.

I am kinda hoping Anet adds additional things to WvW, which can defend or wipe out zergs either by camps/towers or out in the open field.

The arrow cart idea is a start but it really is pointless when ranged can just pick away at the door from afar

FractalChaos.6539:

Caliban.3176:

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal.
Assuming I don’t die the moment I poke my nose out (because of the 30 people standing right there who want to kill me), yes, I can do that. Doesn’t help my keep as attackers will still be taking down the door at range, and that player I killed will be insta-rezzed by his zerg. I had zero effect on the outcome and the keep will still fall.

There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). Cliffside is well loved for this very reason. It’s easy to defend. It’s also the exception that proves the rule. There are 2 keeps, a garrison, and 3 other towers where standing on the walls is pretty much a death trap.

You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. It is impossible to attack anyone from the walls unless you stand on the very edge. Unfortunately, that means they can hit you, too (and use Scorpion Wire, Spectral Grasp, that wrench #5 that I love, or the Mesmer pull to drag you down and filet you). Where is the advantage to the defenders here? And what about the 15 friends behind the ram operators, all shooting at the same gate with pistols, bows, rifles, scepters and staves? Will they continue to attack the gate while I go out and butcher those manning the rams?

*You can portalbomb and bait them. *
How is that an advantage for the defenders again?

You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.
How is that an advantage for the defenders again? You’ve been breached. Your defense failed. Baiting a zerg and then killing it can be done at supply camps, open field, keeps, towers…it’s not specific to a siege defense scenario.

Here’s the bottom line; in a siege, 5 people in a fully fortified keep with ample siege weaponry and supplies SHOULD have a better than 50-50 chance of holding off 15 or 20 people. Siege weaponry is what’s known as a force multiplier; five average people with pocket knives versus 15 people with machetes are in deep trouble. Put those same 5 average people behind a concrete wall and give them each a gattling gun (ac) and those 15 people with machetes SHOULD melt and die. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

The problem is 5 will have a 100% chance to hold off 20+. This should not be the case.

They need to make T3 harder to attain then. Right now I can get T3 on a keep on Friday night before I log off.

Lance.5892:

MagnusLL.8473:

Ruprect.7260:

So the smart guys build a cata outside of ac range. They build a ballista and destroy the cata. The attackers build a treb, lol, the defenders build a counter treb, being that it takes far less hits to take down the treb with the counter treb than it does for the attacking treb to take down a wall (we are no longer able to block treb shots) the defenders win again. How again is anyone in a high tier going to take a tower/keep lol.

You don’t need to take down the walls, just the enemy ACs, THEN you plop down your rams.
And yes, they could rebuild more. That’s why supply-starving the enemy becomes (more) critical.

In other words, you can’t go and facerub down a structure anymore. You need to plan how you’re going to take it, using things like detaching a doliak sniping team to stop them from receiving more supplies while keeping YOUR supply flow intact so you can win the siege weapons’ arms race. This means you now need at least 3 separate fighting groups instead of the mono zerg. How is this a bad thing?

wait…you do realize theres spots you can put acs where you cant aoe them or dragons tooth right? and they can STILL hit the gate to kill ALL SIEGE HITTING THE GATE AND THE PEOPLE?

Catapults or trebs can take care of that. It just means you can no longer play the same way, you have to change. It really is that simple.

FractalChaos.6539:

Caliban.3176:

Defenders have no advantage?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal. There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. You can portalbomb and bait them. You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.

I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?

You can go in and out of the portal killing attackers and come back inside to safety and heal.
Assuming I don’t die the moment I poke my nose out (because of the 30 people standing right there who want to kill me), yes, I can do that. Doesn’t help my keep as attackers will still be taking down the door at range, and that player I killed will be insta-rezzed by his zerg. I had zero effect on the outcome and the keep will still fall.

There are plenty of smart placements for siege where you have an advantage (cliffside has awesome spots for example). Cliffside is well loved for this very reason. It’s easy to defend. It’s also the exception that proves the rule. There are 2 keeps, a garrison, and 3 other towers where standing on the walls is pretty much a death trap.

You can buff up and use all your skills while the people down there are on rams or attacking the gate and have some stuff on cooldown. It is impossible to attack anyone from the walls unless you stand on the very edge. Unfortunately, that means they can hit you, too (and use Scorpion Wire, Spectral Grasp, that wrench #5 that I love, or the Mesmer pull to drag you down and filet you). Where is the advantage to the defenders here? And what about the 15 friends behind the ram operators, all shooting at the same gate with pistols, bows, rifles, scepters and staves? Will they continue to attack the gate while I go out and butcher those manning the rams?

*You can portalbomb and bait them. *
How is that an advantage for the defenders again?

You can let them in and kill them in the choke and then repair the gate.
How is that an advantage for the defenders again? You’ve been breached. Your defense failed. Baiting a zerg and then killing it can be done at supply camps, open field, keeps, towers…it’s not specific to a siege defense scenario.

Here’s the bottom line; in a siege, 5 people in a fully fortified keep with ample siege weaponry and supplies SHOULD have a better than 50-50 chance of holding off 15 or 20 people. Siege weaponry is what’s known as a force multiplier; five average people with pocket knives versus 15 people with machetes are in deep trouble. Put those same 5 average people behind a concrete wall and give them each a gattling gun (ac) and those 15 people with machetes SHOULD melt and die. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

Ok.
If you die immediately when you poke out you are doing it wrong. You can choose where you go out (either portal or jump from wall) they are standing at 1 place and have to react, you can act. That is an advantage. The people you kill should not be instarezzed because then you are not putting the right amount of pressure on the right places. (with smart arrowcart placement (even before they were OP))

Buffing up and killing them was not meant to happen from on the wall, that would be kitten you should actually go out and kill them all (kill them all). Try it, it works.

Portalbombing is an advantage because again you can act, it is just an extreme version of choosing where you jump down. It is a HUGE advantage.

You are right, defending should have a better chance but the balance (which already favors defenders) is completely gone.

I’ll repeat this:
“I’ll grant you this though. In an idiotzerg vs idiotzerg situation the attackers have the advantage. But should a game cater to idiottactics?”

DeadlySynz.3471:

Something needs to be done against zergs. I love WvW just as much as the next person, but this whole numbers game really has to go. By default if you have 30 attacking a group of 10 in a capped tower, the 30 will eventually get in, that is all there is to it.

There needs to be far more strategy involved so that:

1) The ones outnumbered actually have a fighting chance
2) The ones with sheer numbers will have to start employing different tactics and strategies.

I would like to see a single person be able to either defend or wipe out an entire zerg (if need be) which forces the zerg to use their numbers more wisely.

I am kinda hoping Anet adds additional things to WvW, which can defend or wipe out zergs either by camps/towers or out in the open field.

The arrow cart idea is a start but it really is pointless when ranged can just pick away at the door from afar

So what happens when in your tier no one is outnumbered and you have pretty even numbers. It is now impossible for anyone to take a tower/keep.

I think the very small minority is outnumbered in WvW all the time.

Your post tells me you have no idea what you are doing in WvW. “Ranged can pick of the door anyway”. Hmmmm, how could we solve that problem. Raises Hand I know, build a ballista.

Ruprect.7260:

DeadlySynz.3471:

Something needs to be done against zergs. I love WvW just as much as the next person, but this whole numbers game really has to go. By default if you have 30 attacking a group of 10 in a capped tower, the 30 will eventually get in, that is all there is to it.

There needs to be far more strategy involved so that:

1) The ones outnumbered actually have a fighting chance
2) The ones with sheer numbers will have to start employing different tactics and strategies.

I would like to see a single person be able to either defend or wipe out an entire zerg (if need be) which forces the zerg to use their numbers more wisely.

I am kinda hoping Anet adds additional things to WvW, which can defend or wipe out zergs either by camps/towers or out in the open field.

The arrow cart idea is a start but it really is pointless when ranged can just pick away at the door from afar

So what happens when in your tier no one is outnumbered and you have pretty even numbers. It is now impossible for anyone to take a tower/keep.

Not impossible, just harder.

FractalChaos.6539:

Here’s the bottom line; in a siege, 5 people in a fully fortified keep with ample siege weaponry and supplies SHOULD have a better than 50-50 chance of holding off 15 or 20 people. Siege weaponry is what’s known as a force multiplier; five average people with pocket knives versus 15 people with machetes are in deep trouble. Put those same 5 average people behind a concrete wall and give them each a gattling gun (ac) and those 15 people with machetes SHOULD melt and die. That’s how it’s supposed to be.

so you are saying that it makes logical sense that you can kill a ram with an arrowcart in less than a minute? seems logical

No need to defend anymore, because no one will bother attacking you anymore either. Problem?

Ophidian.9043:

No need to defend anymore, because no one will bother attacking you anymore either. Problem?

Agreed, reset night will decide the winner. Whoever can take the most keeps and get them upgraded on Friday will win the week.

excellent update, anything that causes problems for mindless farming zergs has to be good

Ophidian.9043:

No need to defend anymore, because no one will bother attacking you anymore either. Problem?

Good one!

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent update, anything that causes problems for mindless farming zergs has to be good

mindless farming zergs?

If this is apparently mindless, the entire hardcore team pvp community is about to leave the game.

its like being back in beta….you nerfed the for a reason Anet.

Also, stop making WvWvW ranks have a meaningful impact on the game, it was supposed to be reasonably level playing field, a bit of gear differences but not absurd.

Attaching pure power, and these ranks are becomming that, to wvwvw rank, is what I came to GW2 to avoid.

Lance.5892:

so you are saying that it makes logical sense that you can kill a ram with an arrowcart in less than a minute? seems logical

Use catas or trebs. If you manage to kill all the defending siege, use rams.

dont see the problem, it should take a few hours of effort to take a tower

If there are more than 5-6 arrow carts on gate, it means don’t hit that gate. There are so many ways to siege a keep. This change just helps people defend against those who just beat down gates with 50 people in less than 20 seconds. Along with the 30 second contest delay, as a commander, I am excited to figure out new ways to take down keeps.

Cameirus.8407:

its like being back in beta….you nerfed the for a reason Anet.

Because they were overpowered on upleveled level 20’s in blues?

People complain about nothing but zergs
Anet changes something to help fight zergs
People complain about not being able to zerg

facepalm

Lance.5892:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent update, anything that causes problems for mindless farming zergs has to be good

mindless farming zergs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsdlBjm79dQ

If this is apparently mindless, the entire hardcore team pvp community is about to leave the game.

Hardcore players used to like challenges. But now attacking keeps is too hard, and you will all quit, something seems wrong here.

Lance.5892:

so you are saying that it makes logical sense that you can kill a ram with an arrowcart in less than a minute? seems logical

Use catas or trebs. If you manage to kill all the defending siege, use rams.

so you want this game to be a game of who builds the first treb? with no swirls now, whoever gets a treb up first wins! or whoever builds the most trebs wins! thats great fun isn’t it?

Let me give you the 2 scenarios

Offensive:

Builds trebs without defenders seeing them. Trebs down all counter siege, trebs down wall, continues firing poison cows and treb shots to poison and knockdown all defenders, takes keep.

Defensive:

Builds trebs or already has trebs up in spots where they cant be counter trebbed. Destroys all offensive trebs, no need to kill anybody, sits in tower or keep doing absolutely nothing.

The bottom line is: this game has a beautiful team combat system that allows people to work with other people to fight other people, and it’s actually pretty fun and induces quite a bit of adrenaline. Without a proper zone to have gvg (25 v 25), the only place to do it is in WvW. And with FIGHTING over keeps and towers being nerfed, you are no longer able to force engagements. Instead everyone can just sit in their tower and keeps doing nothing for hours until they quit the game to do something better with their lives.

This is going to be soooooo boring. Goodbye to open field combat and welcome to hours of un-enjoyable pounding on keeps and arrow cart firing.

WvW should just be categorised under a different heading instead of PvP.

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

dont see the problem, it should take a few hours of effort to take a tower

And days to take a keep, sound like fun.

/sarcasm.

Seriously dude. If it takes hours to take a tower, which it does in my tier sometimes then the matches need to go a month instead of a week.

oh god people having to make an effort and not be able to farm… shocking :O

Arrowcarts were good just as they were. Granted, they rarely killed anyone, but put enough pressure for the enemy force to burn healing and utilities, so you could charge out and kill them. Now they just melt everyone and everything…
With the increased range you can’t even get close to the tower/keep. There are plenty of good ideas to split up the zerg, but this is not one of them!

Anet have clearly never seen a Riverside keep fully operational -_-

Hardcore WVW players (not PVP) will find a way to beat it and move on

Lance.5892:

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

excellent update, anything that causes problems for mindless farming zergs has to be good

mindless farming zergs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsdlBjm79dQ

If this is apparently mindless, the entire hardcore team pvp community is about to leave the game.

Hardcore players used to like challenges. But now attacking keeps is too hard, and you will all quit, something seems wrong here.

Challenges are what it is all about but the it should be on a level playingfield. This arrowcart buff just killed that.

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going. Now they have taken the fights out of siegeing entirely. No more people near gates, only trebs and cata’s to hit eachother and arrowcarts as deterrants.

Someone else just said that attacking a tower should take hours. Can’t completely disagree with that but as it is now those would be actionless hours. Just trebshots going back and forth.

BenL.5312:

This is going to be soooooo boring. Goodbye to open field combat and welcome to hours of un-enjoyable pounding on keeps and arrow cart firing.

You mean people will actually have to fight for objectives in WvW, the way WvW was envisioned, instead bashing their skulls together in a field?

How horrible.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Agreed. Ridiculous.

Nobody was asking for so mega mighty buff.

Anet: please communicate with your players before doing such drastic changes. It looks more and more like you really don’t play nor understand your own game.

Talk to us!

They do listen to players. Where do you think they got the idea of this LUDACRIS nerf to Mesmers from? From all the QQing from lame players (cuz that’s what you are if you can’t deal with confusion). But hey! If you are a Thief you can still hit for 7k in quick succession without the risk of killing yourself!

I see many Thieves putting Heartseeker on autoattack from today on…

I can’t believe all the hardcore “good” players crying about this. And putting down the regular players.

And the overexaggeration!

Give me a break, if you’re so good you’ll figure out a way to change and adapt. And figure out a way to get in that keep.

I guarantee that this will not make it impossible to take a structure.

I agree with Aneu. Keeps needs nerfs, not buffs. Right now nightcapping and fortyfing your keeps is more important than anything. We already had 3-4 hour long sieges, now without Swirling Winds and improved AC’s we are looking at even longer ones.

I don’t understand how could anyone feel the need for stronger defence in a T3 Hills with 1700 supply. As much as I understand that there are people that preffer siege defence then roaming, I don’t understand how this benefits any side. Defenders will have it easy so can’t see fun in that. Sure, it might be fun for an hour to sit at your AC mowing zergs down Rambo-style. But will it be fun after a month?
Attackers won’t waste their time to attack your keep. They will switch to weakest target on the map, look for the other group that is also bored. And you will be all alone with your AC’s. After you go to sleep nightcappers will come and take your empty keep.
Unless you’re the nightcappers then … well… have fun watching that gate.

no, cause hardcore players want changes but wait, they hate them too

Best change yet for WvW. Zergs cant just mindlessly run up to a gate, toss down a few rams and swarm over a tower. Yes, you can’t just run into a lords room defending by carts now. As it should be. Your objective should be to destroy the carts first. God forbid WvW require some thought.

Change your tactics. Split your zerg into multiple groups so that the arrow carts have to choose one or the other. Think and don’t just mindlessly follow the blue tag. Two thumbs up for this change.

Caliban.3176:

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going.

That’s the problem though. You’re looking for a 20 vs 20 deathmatch battle in a game situation which was very clearly designed with completely different goals in mind.

I think this will encourage larger zergs to try to PvDoor even more, since a few defenders on ACs is not worth the hassle.

Johje Holan.4607:

I can’t believe all the hardcore “good” players crying about this. And putting down the regular players.

And the overexaggeration!

Give me a break, if you’re so good you’ll figure out a way to change and adapt. And figure out a way to get in that keep.

I guarantee that this will not make it impossible to take a structure.

This is a comment made from a person that has never played against a good guild. You do not understand how hard it is in upper tiers to take a keep the way it is. All of these changes just make it impossible. Taking a T3 keep in the upper tiers takes hour of setup followed by sometimes hours of fighting , and rarely ends with the attackers winning. Keeps were to easy to defend before.

MagnusLL.8473:

Caliban.3176:

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going.

That’s the problem though. You’re looking for a 20 vs 20 deathmatch battle in a game situation which was very clearly designed with completely different goals in mind.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

That’s what they wrote on their website about what WvW is supposed to be

MagnusLL.8473:

Caliban.3176:

You’re missing the point. These guilds attack keeps not because they want to but because they need to to get the fights going.

That’s the problem though. You’re looking for a 20 vs 20 deathmatch battle in a game situation which was very clearly designed with completely different goals in mind.

No I’m not. I’m looking for a game where there are objectives that add an extra dimension to fights. Not a game where the objectives become an excuse to avoid fights.

This is where your not getting it.. are you assuming all players are dumb in WvW and just stand around spamming auto attack?

I rarely get hit by AC’s, if I do, I take 1-2 ticks and no more. I rarely get hit by ballistas. I’m mobile when I attack, I watch the battlefield, I watch the portals.

Defenders have no real advantage. They get melted on top with AoE, they get crippled running out of the portals due to mud traps, then consequently decimated within 2 seconds. It wouldn’t matter if the gates had more hp, they’d just take longer to take down while all the defenders are either dead in the keep or held up in the lords room waiting for the inevitable decimation.

The only down side I can see with this is it pretty much makes rams useless now, and those who like to flip and flip often won’t get as much gold. One of the reasons I personally run WvW is because the abundance of coin I get. I now see this will be hindered due to the keeps being longer to take.

With that said, there are many ways to take down a keep

- Starve the defenders of their supply by yak slapping so they either waste it all on rebuilding their siege or fixing their equipment
- Treb or catapult from multiple directions (again see supply or lack their of to continually rebuild)
- Ranged picks off the gate from a far then the group spreads out while strategically AoE’ing the AC’s. Contrary to what you might think, most ranged won’t stand in the AC fire dumbfoundedly like a deer in the headlights. Nor will they stand still as if in a shooting gallery for Ballistas.

This is a great addition and I hope they add more, both for attacking and defending. Frankly the numbers game is becoming a little bit boring.

Lance.5892:

so you want this game to be a game of who builds the first treb? with no swirls now, whoever gets a treb up first wins! or whoever builds the most trebs wins! thats great fun isn’t it?

Let me give you the 2 scenarios

Offensive:

Builds trebs without defenders seeing them. Trebs down all counter siege, trebs down wall, continues firing poison cows and treb shots to poison and knockdown all defenders, takes keep.

Defensive:

Builds trebs or already has trebs up in spots where they cant be counter trebbed. Destroys all offensive trebs, no need to kill anybody, sits in tower or keep doing absolutely nothing.

The bottom line is: When shots can’t be blocked, siege drop faster, and supply will be more scarce. You will actually have to siege a structure making it starve for supply. If they are turtled up, they can’t resupply, the attackers can. The supply game will be much more interesting, specially with the supervisor buff.

I fixed that for you.

Uhm… Why do people think that buffing arrowcarts to this extend is going to make it possible for few people to fight big zerg? Who can build most arrowcarts, 10 people or 50?

Ruprect.7260:

Johje Holan.4607:

I can’t believe all the hardcore “good” players crying about this. And putting down the regular players.

And the overexaggeration!

Give me a break, if you’re so good you’ll figure out a way to change and adapt. And figure out a way to get in that keep.

I guarantee that this will not make it impossible to take a structure.

This is a comment made from a person that has never played against a good guild. You do not understand how hard it is in upper tiers to take a keep the way it is. All of these changes just make it impossible. Taking a T3 keep in the upper tiers takes hour of setup followed by sometimes hours of fighting , and rarely ends with the attackers winning. Keeps were to easy to defend before.

Wrong. I’ve played against the best in T1.

Hours of setup followed by hours of fighting, sounds like great fun. Perhaps that’s the problem, we like different things and play differently.

And you’re telling me that the buff to AC’s are going to make it impossible to take that same T3 keep after hours of setup and hours of fighting. I don’t believe it.

Lets wait and see if there are no keep changes in T1 and T2 next week. I will bet you anything there are.

Lady Po Wang Dabang.1394:

oh god people having to make an effort and not be able to farm… shocking :O

Lol, im assuming you get farmed a lot.

This is how you defend against a zerg, not with a bazillion arrowcarts!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMYfHvfsYpg&feature=player_embedded

Arrow carts = highly defensible Camps :-)

Death to your zerg at my door. Defense has been buffed.

Johje Holan.4607:

Ruprect.7260:

Johje Holan.4607:

I can’t believe all the hardcore “good” players crying about this. And putting down the regular players.

And the overexaggeration!

Give me a break, if you’re so good you’ll figure out a way to change and adapt. And figure out a way to get in that keep.

I guarantee that this will not make it impossible to take a structure.

This is a comment made from a person that has never played against a good guild. You do not understand how hard it is in upper tiers to take a keep the way it is. All of these changes just make it impossible. Taking a T3 keep in the upper tiers takes hour of setup followed by sometimes hours of fighting , and rarely ends with the attackers winning. Keeps were to easy to defend before.

Wrong. I’ve played against the best in T1.

Hours of setup followed by hours of fighting, sounds like great fun. Perhaps that’s the problem, we like different things and play differently.

And you’re telling me that the buff to AC’s are going to make it impossible to take that same T3 keep after hours of setup and hours of fighting. I don’t believe it.

Lets wait and see if there are no keep changes in T1 and T2 next week. I will bet you anything there are.

It was fun before, that is my point, I don’t think it needed to be changed. Now instead of hour it will just be a null point. Most doors to T3 keeps in my tier have 6+ AC’s on them, most of which are well placed and near impossible to take out. That many ac’s makes it impossible to ram a gate. Try to cata you say, they build a ballista. Try to treb, well that would have been a good idea but I can no longer block counter treb. I now have to hit their wall 50 times and they have to hit my treb 3 times to destroy it with their counter treb.

This patch really made it from fun to near impossible.

If anything, the cart is now the undisputed king of siege slaying. It will be nerfed specifically because of that. That was the main strength of ballistae.

Another change that promotes turtling instead of actually fighting