Guild Wars 2

There is resistance, and there is pure blown kittenation. You can’t even build siege weapons if there is one dude on a regular cart. If its superior or if there is more then one, you are not getting in at all.

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

Before the update arrowcarts barely hurt at all.

Ok

Of course they do, I run in a 15 man group so im not a wxp kitten flipping keeps every 5 mins (my main is lvl 20 for kitten sake!).
I want resistance from people!
I dont want to stand a mile away trebbing a wall for 2 hours while they sit in their ac ridden keep repairing a wall. I dont want to have to build a treb to destroy their 20 ac / ballistas in lords room when their 50 players have no wall to hide behind (why the kitten are they hiding in the first place from 15 players). I dont want to get a fight from an npc and 3 guys who aren’t too chickenkitten to run away when they have to fight me with their actual bloody weapons after 4 hours of standing around watching someone treb

Guys, I hate to say this but Anue has more WvW experience than most of you combined. And he is not alone, all the hardcore WvW players are disgusted by these AC changes. They were strong before and now they are rediculous.

Don’t doubt Anue his words, all what he says is true.

I recommend using the old phalanx strategy. Just stay very close and tight. Also let me know you are coming first.

is that really the max seige cap? I know I’ve seen 15 able to hit the lords room choke from inside lords, with some ballistas

503 replies in 10 hours in this thread.

If it gets to be a real problem ArenaNet will adjust it, some people are just to dramatic and overreact to things. Let them work the data and make fixes if needed.

MiLkZz.4789:

Guys, I hate to say this but Anue has more WvW experience than most of you combined. And he is not alone, all the hardcore WvW players are disgusted by these AC changes. They were strong before and now they are rediculous.

Don’t doubt Anue his words, all what he says is true.

Oh, I don’t doubt him. Anyone that carries his teddy bear on his back when he is in WvW I take very seriously.

joric.1042:

503 replies in 10 hours in this thread.

If it gets to be a real problem ArenaNet will adjust it, some people are just to dramatic and overreact to things. Let them work the data and make fixes if needed.

if it wasn’t a problem we would probably be playing instead of posting here instead.

Forzani.2584:

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

No. It slows down the karma/xp train.

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

Before the update arrowcarts barely hurt at all.

No, honestly, personally I don’t really care about your towers, your karma, your wxp, etc. etc. etc. Taking and defending an objective is only a little extra on the side

As I belong to a guild that plays for fights, as a player I am here for the pvp. What we are mad about is the fact that this patch and the AC buffs DISCOURAGE fighting over keeps. Instead it encourages turtling up behind walls and doors with superior counter trebs and acs to counter every type of siege laid down to try to take a keep. Instead of encouraging fighting over objectives, it encourages the stale and boring 30 people sitting inside of their tower spamming the 1 button on their siege for 20 minutes while the other 30 people outside the keep have no options to get in for a fight.

Some people say go back to spvp to get your fights, but that is an entirely different fight/game itself. We are here for the large more epic fights (25v25, 30v30, 20v20 etc.) where there is actual skill and strategy involved, not the smaller 5v5 in spvp. Mind you, I’m not supporting Map blob vs Map blob (80v80) as that’s generally bad for the game and a mess of spamming skill 1, skill lag, and a mess.

Allow me to remind everyone again what Arena NET said what WvW was supposed to be:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/pvp/

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.
Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.
World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

Zoel.9154:

is that really the max seige cap? I know I’ve seen 15 able to hit the lords room choke from inside lords, with some ballistas

No they’re all places you can put an ac that cant be hit from outside by rangers eles etc. Siege cap is … god knows.
Some Riverside players boasted about having 60 superior ac’s in hills in a match against us. They were still able to build trebs, catas and all sorts of other crap to counter just about everything we threw at them.

We eventually took it at about 1am after sieging it for 2 days. It took 7 alphas and 2 omega golems (all of which died at inner with door at about 2%) we zerged the door down the last bit.

This was BEFORE the ac buff

It wasn’t epic – it was the most tiresome, boring hills cap ive ever had the misery to take part in

VoTF had a strategy meeting tonight when the patch hit…

Indeed the siege buff is OP. Should have never been done. Ever heard of a public test realm? Just saying.

Sphere.2076:

Indeed the siege buff is OP. Should have never been done. Ever heard of a public test realm? Just saying.

Where is this mythical place you talk about? I have great doubts it exists.

On topic: We ones fought against a heavily defended hills too. Only we used 20+ alphas and 2 omegas and they were melting to the ACs even before the buff. Now they would just dissapear…was super frustrating fight.

MiLkZz.4789:

Sphere.2076:

Indeed the siege buff is OP. Should have never been done. Ever heard of a public test realm? Just saying.

Where is this mythical place you talk about? I have great doubts it exists.

On topic: We ones fought against a heavily defended hills too. Only we used 20+ alphas and 2 omegas and they were melting to the ACs even before the buff. Now they would just dissapear…was super frustrating fight.

Happens every week against Riverside, its not uncommon or rare. Its their standard strategy and it was a nightmare before. Im not even going to bother trying to take it back if the patch stays as is.

It is so stupid,with VZ building siege in crazy numbers and now this buff to ac dmg..It is almost impossible to get t3 tower now or keep you need time to treb cata it like hell while zergs come on you,and the 30 seconds free cd on contested keep is bulkitten….This patch only promote the bunker style and hide behind doors. Honestly this AC buff is the worst not even speaking for using the Ac mastery…
I dont know what Anet think maybe we have all to build siege and watch each other from the walls…

Caid.4932:

MiLkZz.4789:

Sphere.2076:

Indeed the siege buff is OP. Should have never been done. Ever heard of a public test realm? Just saying.

Where is this mythical place you talk about? I have great doubts it exists.

On topic: We ones fought against a heavily defended hills too. Only we used 20+ alphas and 2 omegas and they were melting to the ACs even before the buff. Now they would just dissapear…was super frustrating fight.

Happens every week against Riverside, its not uncommon or rare. Its their standard strategy and it was a nightmare before. Im not even going to bother trying to take it back if the patch stays as is.

I don’t think I will come back if the patch stays as it is, I don’t feel like frustrating fights like this day in day out. I’d rather switch games.

this change does not promote pvp.

This is a simple post to assess regarding wvw, the new wxp reward of arrow cart mastery is not bad at all, however with the last trait line that poisonous skill that reduces heal effectiveness plus the 80% overall increase in arrow cart damage is absolutely insane. I will give a quick example: Today, right after the patch, we were doing a guild raid with 25-30 people, going for garrison watergate and placed two superior rams. Not 10 seconds had passed and around 4 arrow carts started firing on us whilst we were at the door and everyone was just melting away we had to get back, and before we could get the gate to 50% the rams had melted rapidly, damage was very very very visible on their hp bar, it was unbelievable.
Before, we could have these same 4 arrow carts firing on us, we would have to heal, at times even regroup off the gate for extra healing whilst not taking damage. This patch has simply made it so 4 people can overpower an entire force trying to go for a keep. What is the solution? I can only see an encouragement for the use of trebuchets that can be countered in any keep as well as blobing up to 100 man zergs and just dpsing the gate as only 50 people can be hit by the ACs.
Another important occurance I saw today after the patch was a zerg encountering another one, and retreating to build a superior Arrow cart in open field, where it would just cripple the enemies, and nuke them down as the zerg would push in and finish them.
I do not think this is an Arena Net worthy patch to be very honest, the hardcore wvw players and their guilds will just start leaving.

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

I jumped on an arrow cart with my lowbie today, I was hitting on average for about 1900, highest I think I saw was 2500, with a superior arrow cart. It was fun picking up all he bags beside me and seeing those big numbers, but seemed like way to much damage, imo.

I’ve rarely seen some aspects of an update so badly received by the community. Anet has taken a wrong turn here, if they do not listen to their community they will lose it faster than they realize.

It’s a 1 second decision, the instant someone decides it’s enough, that they will no longer boot that game again and drag it in the recycle bin.

I just hope they fix these new exaggerated boost and nerf.

They’ve certainly made the ram pretty useless. Might as well go as far as possible and make cata.

Seriously, it does not matter HOW many people we have. You can’t drop a ram or anything. The print gets melted before the players even have time to start building it. It takes about 2 seconds for people to kneel down and start building and in that time 2 arrow carts are enough to destroy the siege weapon print. it is now IMPOSSIBLE to take anything so long as there are 2 people on 2 arrowcarts. It cannot be done, unless you got 60 people shooting ranged attack at the gate, and even then its hard since you can just add 2 more arrow carts and 4 people are all it takes to melt an entire army : (

Forzani.2584:

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

No. It slows down the karma/xp train.

Perhaps that’s the real reason, they want people to get less rewards in game, to be more dependent on spending real cash on the TP.

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

AcidMage.9508:

we were doing a guild raid with 25-30 people, going for garrison watergate and placed two superior rams. Not 10 seconds had passed and around 4 arrow carts started firing on us whilst we were at the door and everyone was just melting away we had to get back, and before we could get the gate to 50% the rams had melted rapidly

So you thought it was normal that you can take a Garrison with 2 rams?

Personally, I think that defending a keep should be easier than it was before: for me it’s perfectly normal that 4 people on defensive siege can kill 2 offensive sieges.

Snorcha.7586:

this change does not promote pvp.

So what? You could say the same about the AOE Cap so whats the point in large scale pvp if it’s about blobbing/turtling/etc up, spamming certain skills esp if there’s lag involved and leads to little class diversity if you’re into that sort of stuff. (maybe that’s also anet’s fault for lack of balance though)
Anyway the pvp part isn’t the fundamental part of why many people play wvw week in week out, you have objectives to cap, siege machines, fight over and defend which gives things a purpose and allows even low levels to get involved without elitism.
Back on topic are arrow carts I can’t quite gauge how overpowered they are now but I doubt even the buff without the mastery makes it OP its the extra damage perhaps, cause it was impossible to take down a whole zerg with golems and defend our keep on EB so many times before and even just an hour ago, now even AC’s despawn after 30 mins!

Tallis.5607:

AcidMage.9508:

we were doing a guild raid with 25-30 people, going for garrison watergate and placed two superior rams. Not 10 seconds had passed and around 4 arrow carts started firing on us whilst we were at the door and everyone was just melting away we had to get back, and before we could get the gate to 50% the rams had melted rapidly

So you thought it was normal that you can take a Garrison with 2 rams?

Personally, I think that defending a keep should be easier than it was before: for me it’s perfectly normal that 4 people on defensive siege can kill 2 offensive sieges.

Mostly normal. 4 people on defensive seige could indeed do that pre-patch anyhow

But lets hypothetically say they couldn’t.

I think you’re basing your definition of “should” on realism rather than gameplay balance. If it’s possible to hold a garrison almost indefinitely against a vastly larger force, why should more than three or four people defend the tower against 45-50 when they’re better suited to standing around trebuchets at another objective?

(especially if you NEED that 45-50 people in order to take down one outer wall.)

Kebab.4013:

VoTF had a strategy meeting tonight when the patch hit…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsjHzb9pSxk

out friggen standing

Xillllix.3485:

Forzani.2584:

defrule.7236:

Do people not want resistance at all when taking towers?

No. It slows down the karma/xp train.

Perhaps that’s the real reason, they want people to get less rewards in game, to be more dependent on spending real cash on the TP.

Dunno about anyone else, but if people are trying to get xp/karma, a camp-farming cycle on a quiet enemy borderlands still offers very healthy rewards. If they offered a +wxp booster, I might be more willing to concede.

During active hours, it still seems as though the problem is the binary flip of rewards. You already can’t lolzerg your way through objectives during active hours.

Arrow cart buff seems fine for the open world, but could possibly be overdoing it in SM lord’s room.

Still would like it if wvwvw skills or levels were account-wide rather than character based.

Aneu.1748:

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

Kebab.4013:

VoTF had a strategy meeting tonight when the patch hit…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsjHzb9pSxk

+1 This was obviously a bad move on their part. +80%… are you kidding me? -.- Did some one mean 8% and a decimal place got moved?

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

After you take a tower/keep the first thing you do after sweeping is siege it up if you want to hold it… starting from inner going towards outer. I’ve never seen anything like what you’re talking about.

Maybe all the organized guilds should have a meeting and stack up in the lower brackets, equally in all the servers. Then there would be no way up because of balanced matchups and glicko 2 glitch and there would also not be arrow carts and coverage that keeps them up.
We all could enjoy the fights we play the game for and there would be no reason to stress about going up in the bracket.

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

ammayhem.5962:

Aneu.1748:

With the ability to put 12 arrowcarts on a single door, adding poison to an arrowcart resulting in 33% less healing, increasing arrowcarts damage by 80%, with arrowcarts being so easily built with such small amount of supply required and increasing the time within which bleed stays on you from a cart… how do you think this is a positive addition to WvW?

I cant even … Im utterly dumbfounded at why someone at arenanet would think this is a good idea…

As I said in another thread, I see two arrow carts and 10 unfinished blueprints.

The relevance of this is what? They count towards the seige limit and are all arrowcarts that I placed myself in positions to hit attackers, just because I didnt waste supply to build them all has no bearing on the discussion.

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

Why have i even got to explain this?

They have been placed meaning thet can be built, thet can be built meaning they can be manned, they can be manned indicating they can do damage, they can do damage which results in deaths… 12 of them… average of 2k damage per second in defence of a single gate…

Anything clicked yet?

Aberrant.6749:

ammayhem.5962:

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

After you take a tower/keep the first thing you do after sweeping is siege it up if you want to hold it… starting from inner going towards outer. I’ve never seen anything like what you’re talking about.

I never said anything about setting up siege after sweeping. I was only questioning how 10 unfinished arrow carts are so devastating.

Vynt.5218:

Maybe all the organized guilds should have a meeting and stack up in the lower brackets, equally in all the servers. Then there would be no way up because of balanced matchups and glicko 2 glitch and there would also not be arrow carts and coverage that keeps them up.
We all could enjoy the fights we play the game for and there would be no reason to stress about going up in the bracket.

This has been a dream of mine ^^.

ammayhem.5962:

Aberrant.6749:

ammayhem.5962:

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

After you take a tower/keep the first thing you do after sweeping is siege it up if you want to hold it… starting from inner going towards outer. I’ve never seen anything like what you’re talking about.

I never said anything about setting up siege after sweeping. I was only questioning how 10 unfinished arrow carts are so devastating.

He was just showing you how many AC you could build on a gate. Showing the siege limit permitted 10+ ACs, that is all. Is that so hard to understand?

MiLkZz.4789:

ammayhem.5962:

Aberrant.6749:

ammayhem.5962:

Just curious as to how those 10 can hit attackers when they aren’t built. Also, what relevance is it here that they count toward siege limit?

After you take a tower/keep the first thing you do after sweeping is siege it up if you want to hold it… starting from inner going towards outer. I’ve never seen anything like what you’re talking about.

I never said anything about setting up siege after sweeping. I was only questioning how 10 unfinished arrow carts are so devastating.

He was just showing you how many AC you could build on a gate. Showing the siege limit permitted 10+ ACs, that is all. Is that so hard to understand?

Oh that’s what he was confused about? I was kinda o.O

Do you people ever stop complaining? If you’re dumb enough to stand in three layers of overlayed arrow cart fire, let natural selection take it’s course. I completely agree with the new changes.

I have here, in my possession, video footage of a very well dressed and talented invader, and his reaction to standing directly under enemy arrow cart fire as it was two days ago. See below:

Granted, I do believe that umbrella was an ascended item. Likely leaning heavy on the Toughness + Vitality side.

I run a 30 man organized guild, and tonight we decided to just log off.

We hit Hills, the enemy flooded hills with nothing but carts/superior carts. The increased range and damage, they were hitting us from the inner gate waaaaaaay on the outter. We could not get out of it, and the insane damage on top of that, absolutely ridiculous.

I will be looking for a new game in the mean time to possibly enjoy with my guild. kitten this.

So between this, the oddly selective forum moderation, and the way this game has turned into a job with dailies, I’m about done doing business with them. This game is even worse than WoW now. The new owners are purely out to grab our cash as quickly as possible and kitten the game’s manifesto or customer service.

Zoel.9154:

Tallis.5607:

AcidMage.9508:

we were doing a guild raid with 25-30 people, going for garrison watergate and placed two superior rams. Not 10 seconds had passed and around 4 arrow carts started firing on us whilst we were at the door and everyone was just melting away we had to get back, and before we could get the gate to 50% the rams had melted rapidly

So you thought it was normal that you can take a Garrison with 2 rams?

Personally, I think that defending a keep should be easier than it was before: for me it’s perfectly normal that 4 people on defensive siege can kill 2 offensive sieges.

Mostly normal. 4 people on defensive seige could indeed do that pre-patch anyhow

But lets hypothetically say they couldn’t.

I think you’re basing your definition of “should” on realism rather than gameplay balance. If it’s possible to hold a garrison almost indefinitely against a vastly larger force, why should more than three or four people defend the tower against 45-50 when they’re better suited to standing around trebuchets at another objective?

(especially if you NEED that 45-50 people in order to take down one outer wall.)

Firstly, yes, taking garrison outer wall, 2/3 superior rams are ok, 4 are overkill simply. So you are suggesting 4 people should be able to fight off 30 people just like that? giving no chance whatsoever, not because we are getting killed but because the siege is getting slaughtered.
Post-patch, is perfectly doable, 4 arrows carts could be surpassed by constant healing, retreating from the gate and going back in, etc. Rams would not melt away like this.
I agree with the rest of your post +1 there!

I was able to complete my dodging daily by jumping into AC circles as usual… not much change for me :p

Chris.4527:

I run a 30 man organized guild, and tonight we decided to just log off.

We hit Hills, the enemy flooded hills with nothing but carts/superior carts. The increased range and damage, they were hitting us from the inner gate waaaaaaay on the outter. We could not get out of it, and the insane damage on top of that, absolutely ridiculous.

I will be looking for a new game in the mean time to possibly enjoy with my guild. kitten this.

http://www.votf-online.net/index.php?app=uportal

some of my guildies created and compiled some memes about hills and the trying to take a sieged up hills =p we posted it in public so others can see and have a good laugh with us!

MiLkZz.4789:

Guys, I hate to say this but Anue has more WvW experience than most of you combined. And he is not alone, all the hardcore WvW players are disgusted by these AC changes. They were strong before and now they are rediculous.

Don’t doubt Anue his words, all what he says is true.

I am wary of this new change but I need a couple weeks to see it pan out first. I do firmly believe that Arrow Carts are too powerful en masse, both before and after the buff. However I also believe that they were not a big enough deterrent before the buff if there was 1-2. I also extremely firmly believe there are ready counters that good players can leverage and they will find them in the next month or two.

I SUSPECT that there may be an eventual change to how many arrow carts can blanket an area though. The problem with Arrow Carts isn’t their individual damage, but how many can aim at a single area and combine their damage to melt ANYTHING.

This is not a problem in open world and most towers, however it is an incredibly large problem in certain keeps (Hills Keep) where you cannot counter Arrow Carts via trebuchet. Also, I am waiting on catapult and trebuchet mastery with my WvW exp. Prepare to eat Bovine Death!!

Yeah I’m taking a break from wvw until this crap is fixed. We’ve now had all day to see this change and it is absolutely terrible in game.

My complaint about arrow cart is that it practically forces you into two different siege scenarios:

1)A golem rush where the enemy can not respond fast enough.

2)A lengthy ranged siege that avoids arrow carts altogether.

Gamers are not patient enough for lengthy sieges so we will see even more golem rushes on everything. I already can’t stand how golems are becoming the go to siege unit, so this patch is disastrous for me.

MiLkZz.4789:

Guys, I hate to say this but Anue has more WvW experience than most of you combined.

Unless he is multiboxing 20 accounts and counts each hour as 20 hours that is impossible.

Gorefiend.9675:

My complaint about arrow cart is that it practically forces you into two different siege scenarios:

1)A golem rush where the enemy can not respond fast enough.

2)A lengthy ranged siege that avoids arrow carts altogether.

Gamers are not patient enough for lengthy sieges so we will see even more golem rushes on everything. I already can’t stand how golems are becoming the go to siege unit, so this patch is disastrous for me.

Trebs and Catas are better options than golems. Golems take quite alot of damage from AC.

Relevant